I am really intrigued by a discussion happening at Adventures in Ethics and Science over a DrugMonkey post that was a response to a Science Bear post. And the green grass grew all around and around and the green grass grew all around.
Undoubtedly, there are PIs out there now who are reasonably open about their expectations and fairly hands-on in interactions with trainees around their shared scientific inquiries. My sense, though, is that they are rare enough that students may find themselves asking, in the presence of such mentors, "He says he wants X, Y, and Z from me, but what does he really want? Will X, Y, and Z be enough, or is there some extra thing that I'm supposed to be smart enough to figure out that he wants, too?"
In the comments section of the post, occasional guest star and general friend of the blog PhysioProf remarks:
To be honest, I'm having trouble understanding what possible kinds of "secret" or "mysterious" expectations there could possibly be. Trainees need to (1) learn the relevant literature, (2) learn to be experimentally productive, (3) learn to give decent presentations of their work, (4) learn to write decently (grants and manuscripts), (5) learn to design experiments, (6) learn to be creative and originate new ideas, (7) learn to effectively mentor less-experienced trainees, (8) learn to communicate effectively on an informal basis with other trainees in the lab and with the PI.Reading this, I thought to myself "hells yes!" These are precisely the mad skillz one needs to acquire before offering their grad mentor one final salute, grabbing their PhD, and being sure not to let the door hit them in the ass on the way out.
Different trainees exhibit different capacities for mastering these different aspects of becoming a scientist, and I'm sure there are some things I have missed. But I am having a really difficult time thinking of what "secret" or "mysterious" expectations there could be.
[I was going to Photoshop some hilarious picture to put here, but when you Google "door hit ass" you basically get 2,600,000 pictures of G.W. Bush.]
However, the fact that Ambivalent Academic says the following tells me all parties are not in agreement:
All the ones you mention make good sense and are pretty obvious even if not explicitly stated. No problems there. But then even when you're on top of those (and asking for feedback to be sure you've not dropped the ball) and it is still clear that you have disappointed teh mentorz, for reasons unspecified, it seems the only logical conclusion is that you were expected to do...something else?I think this reflects a major source of strife between mentors and trainees -- what exactly are the criteria by which one is evaluated and how does one succeed in graduate school?
The major difference between undergraduate and graduate education is the mode of evaluation and I think this makes some students very uncomfortable. At most universities as an undergraduate one is
In contrast, graduate students are evaluated more subjectively. The point of graduate school is not simply to amass scientific knowledge, but to learn to be an independently-thinking scientist and it is this that a committee evaluates. One can say that a skill one must acquire to be an independent scientist is the ability to give an effective presentation. So, how does one prepare to be evaluated based on their ability to give a presentation? That is exactly the wrong attitude to approach graduate study with. If you're still thinking that way (ie, what do I need to do to pass the next test versus what skills can I acquire and who can I learn from to be a better scientist?), knock it off. Right now.
Rather than focusing on how to prepare for evaluation, one should instead appreciate graduate school for what it is -- a golden opportunity to learn professional skills from different people at different stages in their careers with potentially very different perspectives. You might see four different faculty members give a presentation and see things in each that you felt were effective and incorporate them into your own.
So, how the heck do you succeed in graduate school and how do achieve the goals PhysioProf outlines? Well, first you have to achieve the goal Dr. Isis outlines. You've gotta learn to investigate the ways those around you are succeeding and assimilate their best qualities. Do it because it will make you successful, not because you're worried about passing a qualifying exam or a defense. This means not simply relying on your primary mentor/PI to give you every piece of information you want/need. This doesn't mean that your mentor shouldn't be guiding you, but it does mean that you should not rely entirely on your mentor, completely missing opportunities to learn from others. It's important for mentors and trainees to have an understanding of the other's needs, but the most important skill learned in graduate school is the ability to seek out information from multiple available sources.




Comments
i'm feeling more like graduate school is a golden opportunity to get your ass kicked repeatedly by big-name people wielding intellectual baseball bats... but it's been a rough week here in the hole.
the closer i get to the end, the more i find myself seeking those extra little opportunities to learn from my mentor and those around me who have experiences that i don't.
Posted by: leigh | February 26, 2009 8:36 PM
The single most important intangible expectation of the PhD student, is the demonstration of independence as a scientist. I felt compelled to add this as a single statement, though this concept is echoed in this well written post.
Posted by: GreenNinja | February 26, 2009 8:45 PM
One of the most useful things I discovered in grad school is that there are lots of different ways of being a good scientist. Our department was full of famous researchers, but none of them were good at everything. Some weren't even good at all the important things (not coming into the lab drunk, keeping one's hands off the students). It was reassuring to realize that I didn't have to be perfect to be good.
Posted by: Rosie Redfield | February 26, 2009 9:17 PM
"What's a gal gotta do to get a PhD?"
Other than marry a man who already has one?
(Fellow readers, I'm not in earnest, of course. It's exclusively a joke. That only Dr. Isis will get.)
Posted by: Juniper Shoemaker | February 27, 2009 1:50 AM
eh. The attitude expressed here sweeps under the rug just how crazy-making being a trainee in science can be. Yes, what the expectations are is sort of clear. But what is not at all clear is what constitutes satisfying these expectations. Just how on top of the literature are we talking here? How productive? How original? How good at giving talks? How collegial?
In my experience, one rarely hears about what you've done right. One only hears about what is lacking, and very little context is given to these criticisms. After years of working your tail off and only hearing criticism, it is pretty damn hard to maintain perspective.
Posted by: yolio | February 27, 2009 12:55 PM
Isis - an excellent post.
I think this reflects a major source of strife between mentors and trainees -- what exactly are the criteria by which one is evaluated and how does one succeed in graduate school?
You hit the nail on the head, and the disparity between undergrad and grad education definitely contributes to a difficult transition. Independence and personal responsibility are paramount to success. You're right on about all of these things.
But I think Yolio and leigh have it right too. Trainees are navigating new territory as they pursue their PhDs. Feedback (constructive feedback) is CRITICAL to making progress toward being an independent scientist, otherwise how can you know you're on the right track? Students have a sample size of n=1 on which to judge their own success and statistical impossibility aside, that data set is incomplete. Advisors have a much greater sample set including their own experiences and those of their past trainees. They absolutely should not hand-feed their trainees as this does not an independent scientist make. But feedback on their independent efforts, in the form of both constructive criticism and positive reinforcement, greatly increases the chance of the trainee's success and does not undermine independent thought in the least. If all you ever hear is that you're doing it wrong, how do you know when you've (independently) hit upon doing it right? I'm not talking about experimental results necessarily, but rather all of the more subjective aspects of success that both you and PhysioProf have mentioned here.
Posted by: ambivalent academic | February 27, 2009 1:39 PM
Ambivalent, I agree with you completely. It is important to have constructive feedback. I only argue that one should not come to rely on it.
The one thing I do want to address though is this idea that the stresses you note, and that leigh and Yolio seem to echo, are unique to your grad student-ness. Indeed, they are not. There is not some magical epiphany you have as someone hands you your diploma. Peer-review is essential to science and we are all constantly evaluated (in manuscripts, grants, meetings, etc) by our peers, even beyond graduate school. Yes, you're new at this and this probably causes discomfort, but sometimes I think that students believe that discomfort is unique to being a student. We look to our peers for feedback and this does not change with the receipt of a PhD. So, the point I am trying to make is that 1) your mentor cannot be the sole source of information and 2)it is paramount that you learn to look to your peers and colleagues of all different career levels for guidance.
Posted by: Isis the Scientist | February 27, 2009 2:51 PM
Point taken and well said.
In fact, I often find that other people are better sources for advice and feedback than my advisory either because of their expertise or because they communicate better.
As for the discomfort not being unique to student-ness...please don't strip me of me delusions. The idea that this will get better sometime in the future is what keeps me going. *sticks fingers in ears* lalalalalalalala! ;)
Posted by: ambivalent academic | February 27, 2009 2:57 PM
PS - Is that a grackle in that picture?
*shudder*
Dirty, dirty birds.
Posted by: ambivalent academic | February 27, 2009 6:33 PM