There's a buzz in the blogosphere and Dr. Isis finds her bra and panties-wearing self at the middle of it. I'm going to put the rest of this post behind the cut because there are pictures of naked people. You've been warned.
While Dr. Isis was at Experimental Biology there was a bit of discussion about her real life identity. Dr. Isis's dear, dear blog friend Candid Engineer (who is actually the first person to ever link to Isis the Scientist) posted this bit of sarcasm for those who might be trying to sleuth Dr. Isis's secret superhero identity:
Figure 1: If you've seen my pasty ankles, then you can be certain that this is not me. Unless my ankles are sockpuppets, and then this totally could be me, except that I am bit hotter.
drdrA over at Blue Lab Coats is unamused. She writes:
The picture is ludicrous down to "Dr. Sexy" written on the lab coat, the stethoscope nestled between the woman's well-supported breasts, and the fact that she's about to do whatever she's about to do in her bra and panties. I have never interacted with a patient or an animal in anything but scrubs or overalls, completely covering my frilly teal panties. And, where is that needless syringe going? Could it possibly be more phallic? I find that picture as a representation of a real woman scientist in the workplace just as absurd as I would find a picture of a male colleague in his underpants, ready to do some science:
Figure 2: Professor Dream Boat in his underpants, ready to give a lecture?
I have to laugh at the sheer lunacy that the picture actually depicts me at work, but that doesn't mean I find the reason it makes people uncomfortable funny or that I don't take that incredibly seriously. The reason we're uncomfortable is because women are still objectified in science. That's not the messenger's fault and I don't think she's perpetuating it. Laughing at how some people regard me, which I think is what Candid Engineer is poking fun at, doesn't mean that we can't also talk seriously about feminist issues. I choose to use this image, posted at my expense, as a chance to momentarily laugh at the ridiculous things men find sexy and objectify, and then to remind me of how important it is to continue to support the advancement of women in science. I'm trying. I really am.
So, let's use this as an opportunity to have a brief laugh at Isis's expense and then as a reminder of how far we have left to go. We'll keep working to build a community where people can interact to learn from each other. I've got something I think is going to help for later tonight...
And my underpants are not teal today. They're red.
There's been a lot of talk lately about the real identity of Dr. Isis. Given my uber-inquisitive nature, I decided to do some online sleuthing in order to flush out the truth. And today, finally, I was able to uncover this, uh, edifying picture of my dear blogging friend.And she included this picture, tagged with my name and everything. Now it's a Google result for Isis. Fantastic:
drdrA over at Blue Lab Coats is unamused. She writes:
I have a very visceral reaction to this photograph, (no, not the who is Dr. Isis part, obviously).
I know this is supposed to be a joke. I can't find it funny. People, is this what you want your colleagues (yes, predominantly men) to imagine when you are giving a seminar... or when you are speaking up in faculty meeting?
'Cause trust me, academia is no less like a locker room sometimes than, well, the locker room....
Perhaps you can joke about it. Perhaps you are not regularly a minority in a room .... straining every thing in you to be taken for your great ideas. This just isn't something I can joke about.
And yes, I'm totally prepared to be called a humorless stick-in-the-mud- but I DON'T CARE.I can appreciate drdrA's reaction, but I can also appreciate the absurdity of the picture, en face. I have to appreciate Candid Engineer's unthinly veiled satire here, since I so regularly use it as a device. It can be both a device to point out the preposterousness of a situation, but it also, when taken seriously or at face value, can raise pretty profound emotions or reinforce inappropriate stereotypes. I write about liking shoes, I call my science hot, and I very regularly return a bullet with a satire-laden hand grenade. Those things make me happy. I think though, judging from previous encounters I've had, some people are concerned that it is one beautiful shoe wearing-small step from enjoying carefully coiffed hair and calling your science hot, to endorsing doing your science in your bra and panties. How can that not be funny? Does anyone really think that Dr. Isis is in the lab, teaching her students in her bra and panties? Could I get more students if I did, cause I could use the help.
The picture is ludicrous down to "Dr. Sexy" written on the lab coat, the stethoscope nestled between the woman's well-supported breasts, and the fact that she's about to do whatever she's about to do in her bra and panties. I have never interacted with a patient or an animal in anything but scrubs or overalls, completely covering my frilly teal panties. And, where is that needless syringe going? Could it possibly be more phallic? I find that picture as a representation of a real woman scientist in the workplace just as absurd as I would find a picture of a male colleague in his underpants, ready to do some science:
I have to laugh at the sheer lunacy that the picture actually depicts me at work, but that doesn't mean I find the reason it makes people uncomfortable funny or that I don't take that incredibly seriously. The reason we're uncomfortable is because women are still objectified in science. That's not the messenger's fault and I don't think she's perpetuating it. Laughing at how some people regard me, which I think is what Candid Engineer is poking fun at, doesn't mean that we can't also talk seriously about feminist issues. I choose to use this image, posted at my expense, as a chance to momentarily laugh at the ridiculous things men find sexy and objectify, and then to remind me of how important it is to continue to support the advancement of women in science. I'm trying. I really am.
So, let's use this as an opportunity to have a brief laugh at Isis's expense and then as a reminder of how far we have left to go. We'll keep working to build a community where people can interact to learn from each other. I've got something I think is going to help for later tonight...
And my underpants are not teal today. They're red.
Education & Careers
Brain & Behavior
Comments
Well said, Isis. I'm in your boat. I like to think in feminist terms as well...but I'm always down for an absurd, inappropriate laugh every now and again. 'Professor Dream Boat' is a great touch.
Posted by: ElectroFizzz | April 29, 2009 12:46 PM
Were the teal ones shown the uncomfortable ones from a couple of weeks ago?
Posted by: Pascale | April 29, 2009 1:03 PM
I hate to keep coming back to this point but...
Feminism for me (as a man admittedly) is about women being able to go and do what they want without being judged for it. For me, the lady complaining about this is being as misogynistic as anyone, by implying that somehow you shouldn't be allowed to do this. Because y'know, if you want to liberate women you really need to restrict their freedom of expression :S.
I also think it's slightly unfair to us men. If I'm lucky enough to meet a scientist as hot as Dr. Isis while going about my business, I don't think "my word, she's very hot, I shan't take her seriously." I think: "Blimey, I should have shaved this morning, I hope I don't sound too stupid when I talk to her." I admire intelligence, and if a woman happens to be beautiful as well I don't suddenly run out of admiration-quota.
Posted by: Martin | April 29, 2009 1:03 PM
First, clearly, this woman is NOT a scientist nor doctor. That's ludicrous. I cannot take this as anything but a joke. Now if in a previously life Dr.Isis had done this, I couldn't fault her.
Here's why. I accidentally modeled. Didn't mean to, but the money is good, my family poor as dirt and I wanted more than anything to go to college and med school, and someone discovered me. I didn't go looking for it
In my lab, I am 100% professional. We have to be! I am in an engineering program meaning 80% plus boys. No need to encourage their fantasies, they are already there. I am completely congnizent of this. While I try to be fashionable, the cleavage is kept well underwraps.
I also do outreach to girls. I want them to know that you can be feminine and brilliant and even attractive without being overly sexual. Their parents appreciate this too. I think, however, we can actually discourage girls from liking science by giving them the impression that to be in science we have to ignore our femininity!
A picture like this, displayed in jest, shows we are aware of who we are and the struggles we face by being a woman in science, especially through discussions like this!
I'm sure Isis is this hot, but professional!
Posted by: sciencegoddess | April 29, 2009 1:06 PM
Dr. Isis wrote over at drdra's:
"I mean, even McDreamy gets to keep his clothes on, right?"
I Google-imaged. Sadly, the magnificent Goddess is (as usual) completely correct.
Dr. Isis's madphotoshopskillz to the rescue?
Posted by: becca | April 29, 2009 1:53 PM
I had a skeeved reaction to CEiA's post. It made me uncomfortable and I thought it was over the line.
I am suspecting that this is the tingle that lets you know it is working, if it happens to you.
/fuck, I dunno.
Posted by: DrugMonkey | April 29, 2009 2:01 PM
Wow. This frighteningly close to "She's too beautiful to be smart."
Which is not only stereotypically ignorant, but biologically untenable.
Posted by: Luigi | April 29, 2009 2:29 PM
And of course neither one of these scientists could be working in the laboratory in those outfits because they do not meet the safety criteria for working with hazardous chemicals or radioisotopes.
Posted by: Barb | April 29, 2009 2:31 PM
In my experience it is easier to be taken seriously as a scientist if one is not drop-dead gorgeous (I never was but I have talked with colleagues who are) and if one has "presence" (like being 6 feet tall). Then the stereotypes do not run as rampant.
Posted by: Barb | April 29, 2009 2:36 PM
"Feminism for me (as a man admittedly) is about women being able to go and do what they want without being judged for it. For me, the lady complaining about this is being as misogynistic as anyone, by implying that somehow you shouldn't be allowed to do this. Because y'know, if you want to liberate women you really need to restrict their freedom of expression :S."
Martin- If you go read the comment thread to my post you will realize that I didn't make any implication that CE shouldn't post any picture that she likes. I simply said I didn't find this particular picture funny, and why.
Posted by: drdrA | April 29, 2009 3:01 PM
Strange that Luigi would interpret a former international model's comment as meaning a beautiful woman cannot be smart!
I mean the clothing. No one could dress like that and get their work done.
Clarity: Clearly, as depicted in this photograph, this woman could not possibly represent a real scientist or doctor. She may have moved on, like me, to great scientific feats.
Posted by: sciencegoddess | April 29, 2009 3:10 PM
"Luigi" is a trolly dude who forgets that SB logs the IP address of every one, sockpuppets included, who comments here. Pay him no mind. The Drugmonkey boys must not be catering to him lately, so he's coming here to start trouble.
Your point is very well made, Sciencegoddess. This woman is obviously not a scientist or doctor in the act of practing her profession. That doesn't mean she couldn't be a doctor or scientist if that were her choice. It means that not one of us is in the lab in her bra and panties running gels.
Posted by: Isis the Scientist | April 29, 2009 3:14 PM
lol! (sciencegoddess' brain moderator has deleted this comment)
Your last point is a reason why I thought maybe that pic COULD be you before starting science career. I am surely not the only "model scientist" (heehee) out there, am I?
I NEVER once had any overt issues with harrassment. Just fortunate to work with gentlemen all these years, I guess.
Posted by: sciencegoddess | April 29, 2009 3:34 PM
I was just saying that it's not obvious that she isn't a scientist. Like sciencegoddess, she could be a scientist AND a model. To assume otherwise is to potentially sell her short.
Posted by: Luigi | April 29, 2009 4:01 PM
Not selling her short, she probably earned $100-150/hour for those pics. If she's doing consistent work, then she earns more than we do in our labs.
Now that's the sad part, that her posing like that is valued (monetarily) more than our work is.
Scientist and model I suspect is a rare breed. Sadly met many vapid people in the business. Creative, beautiful and rich, but not always bright.
Posted by: sciencegoddess | April 29, 2009 4:16 PM
@Martin: "Feminism for me (as a man admittedly) is about women being able to go and do what they want without being judged for it."
Martin, since you're defining feminism for me (as a woman admittedly), why don't you let me know when exactly the judgment will go away? Is there a pill Dude Nation can pop that will eliminate the vision of women as "fuck fantasies"? When I saw CE's pic of Isis, I instantly thought of the asshole who commented that a cock would shut Isis up.
And the woman whining about the picture is doubledoc and if she stood next to you speaking brilliance about feminism rather than science, would that enthrall you? Would you even listen? Or would you just dismiss her as misogynist because she doesn't subscribe to your broken record male view of feminism.
----
Alot of these back and forth feminist viewpoints by women come down to what's called "fun feminist" and "get in the trenches, hairy-legged, fight to the death, take the bastards out feminists." Feminists can't possibly take up the battle with every sexist comment - we'd never get anything else done. There's also times when that bingo card space "what, can't you take a joke?" points out that sensitivity is more than the joke. I missed the part where I was supposed to laugh or be amused. Zuska calls it "gender smog."
I can't help but think that women make 70 cents on the dollar to men. Or the chain restaurant commercial with a man telling a woman to "take your top off" referencing the lid on the (other) hot dish at the table. Or that women make up uh, 1 woman! on the Supreme Court and those men get to decide if a high school female student should strip and "shake out her panties" for any "authority" figure. Or that a male professor shoots his wife and it's called a "crime of passion" by male reporters when it's Murder. Pointing this shit out doesn't make me sensitive all of a sudden - it's a voice with blame on the Patriarchy, and that makes NiceGuy squirm OH NOES! Bring back the fun!! Be happy, you feminists (scientists, doctors, whatever) look prettier when you smile! or strip!
I'll bet that Isis will be getting even more fuckwit shit in her inbox. Oh goodie.
Posted by: jc | April 29, 2009 5:37 PM
the sheer ridiculousness of the photo amused me, i got the point. now if we were seriously advocating that women should walk around in just undergarments (even sexy ones) in ANY workplace... a proper smackdown would be warranted.
and no, the woman does not know what she's doing with that syringe. something that clunky is going to fall right out of that flimsy grip as you try to push the solution out.
the true beauty of female scientists lies in their capabilities... not in how they look while they're achieving those ends.
Posted by: leigh | April 29, 2009 5:48 PM
Today, I wrote a lengthy email response to someone who asked me about female sexuality used in promoting science, its limitations and its implications... and thank you for writing this blog post for demonstrating wonderfully a rational, thoughtful approach to the topic. I immediately posted a link to it. Keep up the fantastic work. :)
Posted by: Podblack | April 29, 2009 5:49 PM
Oh come on, of course she is a scientist or physician. I went to medical school with her, she's working in a research lab as far as I know.
Smartest woman in my medical school class looked like that (almost) at one of our graduation parties--(no lab coat, slightly less skin, but still----)
Only thing it changed (for me, male, married) was made me think she has a life outside of science.
not every one does. (have a life outside of science)
t
Posted by: tac | April 29, 2009 5:51 PM
@drdrA: My apologies, I skimmed this post the first time in a bit of a rush, and leapt to conclusions too quickly. I take back what I said about you.
@jc: I don't really get your reply to me. All I'm saying is that I don't think it's a particularly feminist thing for a woman to tell another woman how she should behave in order to conform to some correct version of feminism (I appreciate that I misinterpreted drdra's point on that, see above).
I'm not "defining feminism for you", and I'm not sure why you would think I am. I'm just a guy, saying "this is what I think", and if I'm wrong or I don't understand then just explain it to me so that I can learn. Because that's all I care about, as a writer and a scientist - reaching out and engaging with a diverse group of people.
Posted by: Martin | April 29, 2009 6:58 PM
ok Martin, I'll put away my knives since you didn't read doubledoc's post for comprehension.
Posted by: jc | April 29, 2009 8:21 PM
Thanks :)
Posted by: Marin | April 29, 2009 8:31 PM
That's actually a smooth move of the patriarchy, to tell women they can't speak critically to one another on any topic relating to women/gender/sexism because that would be SEXIST!!! because women have to always be in solidarity with one another! always!!!!
"Women" is not a homogeneous monolithic category. Real life women differ in their attitudes, beliefs, values, opinions, perceptions, and yes, even their versions of feminism.
Posted by: Zuska | April 29, 2009 11:44 PM
jc: Unless you intend to castrate every straight male on the planet (not a good idea for our species) men are never going to stop fantasizing about sex with beautiful women. What happens in the privacy of a man's head is none of my business so long as he can separate his fantasies from reality and treat the women around him with the same respect he'd give men.
Posted by: Noadi | April 30, 2009 12:44 AM
Okay, I'm male and I find you sexy. I have never seen you, but intelligence and upbeat humor have always been a turn on for me.
I know the idea of a woman doing science in lingerie is ridiculous; I still find the thought of it arousing, especially if it's someone I know to have those qualities I desire.
Does that make me sexist? I don't think so.
Posted by: RJC | April 30, 2009 3:32 AM
Does that make me sexist? I don't think so.
You certainly don't, others would disagree.
Dude, I hope you someday realize just how inappropriate and skeevy your comments is. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm really not interested in what gets your dick hard.
Posted by: LostMarbles | April 30, 2009 5:33 AM
This reminds me of a comment from old advisor -- he was trying to figure out why a woman was hired who he didn't view as very good....he decided that she was cute enough so that the men wanted to fuck her but not so cute or smart that the women were threatened by her.
I have said stupid things in my life -- that is an absolute fact; however, I really hope this sentiment is something he regrets.
Posted by: gnuma | April 30, 2009 8:18 AM
To RJC: Here's the thing: being attracted to women doesn't make you sexist. But describing your desires to people with whom you haven't already established that kind of relationship does. That's because talking about lust for a generalized "woman" is the functional equivalent of making a pass at every female reading this board. That depersonalizes them - it's entirely reasonable for them to be irritated at being thought of as sexual beings first and foremost. As Noadi points out, no-one cares what goes on in your head as long as your behavior remains appropriate - but as soon as your need for reassurance prompts you to ask out loud "am I a sexist for lusting after you" you've sexualized your interlocutors as surely as if you'd grabbed their butt. You can think what you like - just don't force others to think about what you think.
Posted by: anonymous male prof | April 30, 2009 10:04 AM
Sorry, I thought we were having a discussion about sexism in regards to that picture and how men think of women in academics. I wouldn't just say that randomly to a woman I'd just met; I was trying to explain my views on the topic. I don't see women as "sexual beings first and foremost", but I do have an attraction to them. The only point I was trying to make was that pictures and thoughts like this aren't wrong. I don't see it any differently than women with firefighter callandars.
Posted by: RJC | April 30, 2009 10:33 AM
Does this mean that Toaster now has to pose in his underwear and lab coat to restore Balance to The Science?
Posted by: Toaster | April 30, 2009 1:49 PM
Yes, Toaster, yes!
Posted by: k | April 30, 2009 2:54 PM
Toaster, that depends. Do you look like Mcdreamy?
Posted by: becca | April 30, 2009 3:52 PM
Even better.
But if you need that kind of scruffiness, then I'll need at least a month to prepare.
Posted by: Toaster | April 30, 2009 10:15 PM
I've been obsessing over this post all day. I was trying to make a point, but I did so in a really stupid way, and also forgot to even mention the point in the process. My only excuse is that it was late and I was tired... not a very good one.
I am very sorry to anyone I offended.
Posted by: RJC | May 1, 2009 3:29 AM
Hooray to Zuska's comment @ 23. To add on my own thoughts: this whole conversation seems to be about (very broadly) negotiating the problem of sexism. Everyone who's *aware* of the problem and *cares* at all is looking for the lever-points to reduce it, or at least not exacerbate it; obviously this requires discussion and some disagreement on what actions are positive or negative in the long haul, and how to live our lives in the process.
I personally think the ongoing discussion itself is pretty damned important. Most of my ideas on sexism (and other related half-hidden traps and tarpits in human society...) come from watching bright & articulate people argue about them.
Posted by: Rob W | May 1, 2009 7:57 PM
Come now, we all know the real Dr. Isis would never agree to pose without sporting her naughty monkeys. Furthermore, this impostor is too emo. Dr. Isis knows that a proper woman in science always remembers to smile in photographs.
Posted by: Sheril R. Kirshenbaum | May 3, 2009 4:10 PM
as soon as your need for reassurance prompts you to ask out loud "am I a sexist for lusting after you" you've sexualized your interlocutors as surely as if you'd grabbed their butt.
Exactly.
Posted by: Cara | May 3, 2009 6:22 PM
Okay but in this case wasn't that horse out of the barn from the start? The "interlocutors" had sexualized themselves, however jokingly, and there was a discussion going on about how this might be perceived by others.
I was surprised by the reaction to RJC's comment. His point was that even though he agreed it was ridiculous he was still aroused by the idea...his more general admission about Isis was also informative and on-topic - and really not a big deal to me, as we all have these kinds of reactions every day.
Posted by: Isabel | May 4, 2009 1:51 PM