I received this email last week and we touched on it in my Shoe of the Week post. I liked the choice the author ended up making, so I didn't rush to answer her question formally. Still, I wanted to talk about it in a little more detail. Fair worshiper Sxydocma1 writes:
Dear Dr. Isis.
I am new to reading your blog and I love it [I love you too, little muffin!].
I have a question and was hoping you could help me out. Next week, I have to give a plenary lecture at a big, international meeting. I am giving one of those ballroom talks - about 1000 people. My boss is sick and cannot make it and has asked me to go in his place. Needless to say, the science is hot and I know that I will rock the talk.
So, I am super excited and nervous and am trying to think about what to wear. Normally, I like to wear these super hot red stilettos or knee high black boots. Now, my question is this - should I tone down my hotness and go more conservative? How do I strike a middle ground but still be true to myself? Any advice would be appreciated.
Sincerely and devotedly -
Sxydocma1BTW. Love your new DSW purchase! I never understood the gladiator sandals either. I am headed to DSW tomorrow!
I have to tell you, little muffins, I hate these kinds of questions. Not because I don't want to answer them. I do. I really, really do. But, because they make me have to put a cork in my hot, hot feminist ways lest I spew bad advice all over the place.
Video 1: Awesome spewing.
See, my early morning, idealistic feminist leanings make me want to tell this reader that she should be able to give her lecture dressed up as the tooth fairy and it shouldn't matter. She should go ahead and wear her red pumps or knee high boots and everyone else be damned. Science should really be all about the data and that should be enough.
Figure 1: But, we all know that's not reality, even for Eddie Izzard. h/t to Arikia Millikan for sending this to me.
That wouldn't be very good advice, though. So, gather 'round, little muffins, and let Mama leave you with a life lessons to make these decisions easier in the future.What do I mean by that?
If you're looking at your wardrobe and you have one amazing something - a wild pin, a fantastic vintage necklace, a pair of red pumps - you can almost always get away with it and have it be an interest topic of conversation, as long as the rest of the outfit is relatively subdued in comparison. For example, some of you may be familiar with this picture from my early blog days:
Figure 2: Isis's amazing Naughty Monkeys and all her domestic and laboratory goddess-like stuff.I have been known to wear these around MRU, but usually with a pair of neutral pants like jeans or black slacks, and a neutral top. Red stiletto heels could totally rock an academic event as long as you do it like this:
Figure 3: Sxydocma1, looking adorable, gets ready for her conference.And avoid this:
Figure 3 is a stock photo I picked up from a collection I subscribe to that I have been hanging on to for a while. As soon as I got this letter, I thought of it because I remembered seeing it and liking it. I think that what makes her outfit workable for an academic conference is that the dress is relatively modestly cut and the jewelry is fairly subdued. The major focal point is her shoes and the rest is not distracting. I could just pinch the woman in Figure 3. If I were going to wear those shoes for a plenary lecture, I might choose a pair of well-pressed black pants and a collared blouse. I think that would be absolutely fine.
But, it sucks as a feminist to have to give this advice because I could sense from this email that what our reader was really asking was how to wear what she wants without people thinking she doesn't take her science seriously or misinterpreting her clothing choices as a sexual suggestions. One woman's "I love these red shoes! The color reminds me of my tricycle from when I was a little girl!" can be one d00d's "She is clearly wearing those shoes here because she is looking for some action. On my penis." Sometimes you just can't win, and it is unfortunate that we have to consider the message others receive when we decide what to wear. Still, the One Something Amazing Rule has generally worked for me.
Good luck, little muffin!
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To be fair, this is not completely gender specific either. Male or female, you are expected to conform or Eyebrows Will Be Raised. Eddie Izzard could not wear that outfit to an important research presentation (well, OK, Eddie Izzard could, of course, but not us ordinary mortal males). You may like the bad-boy vibe your ripped jeans and scuffed leather jacket gives you, and it may even actually, really suit you, but come that presentation you're wearing slacks, shirt and - if it's really important - a coat and tie, just like everybody else.
Though I like the idea of One Something. Wonder how that would translate to males doing presentation. A daring tie of course, but come to think of it, sometimes you do see people in a suit and sneakers for instance; that probably qualifies.
Posted by: Janne | October 28, 2009 9:58 AM
The idea of One Something Amazing is quite helpful. I do think the male equivalent would be the really quirky tie, or funky glasses, or sneakers.... I've seen all of those at conferences. I still remember the prof who showed up wearing a bowtie containing some hint of sheep in the pattern.
Posted by: Academic | October 28, 2009 10:08 AM
You people had better watch it with the sneaker talk around here.
Posted by: Isis the Scientist | October 28, 2009 10:19 AM
Thanks so much for this post! I'm defending in about a month and I've been debating what to wear. I'm in a physical science dept with ONE female faculty. All of the lovely ladies that have defended recently have worn suits, some of them pretty dull and not so well-fitting. It drives me nuts to think I'm supposed to dress like a man to be taken seriously. I wanted to totally rock a tasteful pencil skirt and some hot, hot shoes, but I think it might be too risky.
Now I think I'll go with slacks and an appropriate shirt, but I'm gonna stick with the awesome shoes!
Posted by: soon2bPhD | October 28, 2009 10:21 AM
Good rule.
Reminds me of when I did forensics in college. The rule there was 5 accessories or less. The idea was that you wanted your clothing to not detract in the slightest from your message and to not give people too many things to look at (as the even slight increase in cognitive load takes away from concentration on your performance). Glasses counted as an accessory, too. It had nothing to do with gender, but it was always a smidge harder for women since we have so many more options (poor men never seem to get to wear scarves, and these days not even cute hats).
Posted by: becca | October 28, 2009 10:39 AM
@soon2bPhD
Enjoy your awesome shoes! I wore red pumps (along with a more conservative gray, business-type dress) when I defended a few months ago. I'm really glad I had that one article that felt more like "me".
Posted by: jenny | October 28, 2009 10:42 AM
It depends on what the "one amazing something" is - Ethan Siegal's outfit (in his picture on his blog page) is a "one amazing something" but would always be inappropriate.
Here's a flipside question: Say I'm a dumb d00d, and a female who works in my group, under my supervision, is going to present our data at a major conference. On the morning of the conference, I am unable to avoid noticing that she's wearing several amazing somethings - they're eye-catching, even though each of the several is quite small. How do I inform her of my opinion that her outfit is inappropriate? Is the discussion different for a male or a female supervisor?
Posted by: David | October 28, 2009 11:22 AM
I totally agree with Dr. Isis on this one. For my dissertation defense, I wanted to wear my black pantsuit with a pair of bright red, sparkly shoes, like Dorothy in "The Wizard of Oz" (more to make a statement about my experiences in grad school than to look sexy, though), but alas, I was unable to find such a pair. So I stuck with some plain, black leather pumps I already had.
However, I think it needs to be said that there are some dOOds who will assume that just because you're *female,* you want action. For example, I never wear inappropriate clothing at work or at talks (mostly khakis or pant suits, though I will wear the occasional conservative knee-length skirt or dress, like the woman in the photo above), nor do I really wear much makeup at all, if at all, but for some reason, I still end up getting slimed by weird dOOds. I think this may have to do, in part, with the fact that I look a lot younger than I am? I'm starting to reconsider wearing glasses, again, instead of contacts - as I've heard that glasses can make a person look a little older and/or more serious - but I stopped wearing them mostly because they hurt the soft spot behind my ears and give me massive headaches as a result (I've even tried changing pairs of glasses for a better fit, but nothing works). Anyway, there you have it - I end up compensating so that I don't get sexually harassed, and STILL get weird crap from dOOds.
Posted by: LadyDay | October 28, 2009 11:38 AM
The goddess definitely got this one right. I must admit I often have 2 wonderful things on (great shoes and earrings, for example), but my wardrobe tends to be tailored suit separates.
I have seen plenary sessions presented by men in flannel shirts and jeans (neuroscientists seem to channel their inner lumberjacks when they present at kidney meetings). I must admit, I considered them sloppy and disrespectful.
The major challenge with hot shoes would be making sure the whole room saw them. I would probably start my talk with a slide of the winners, just to be sure. Of course, I am unlikely to be presenting anything like that anytime soon.
Posted by: Pascale | October 28, 2009 11:50 AM
Now, this is a topic dear to my glittery, gay heart. Science fashion is incredibly dull, duller than Dullsville. In the sea of black, brown, beige and blue of the Neuroscience conference, my chosen attire was a beacon of color and sparkle (as noted in the post last week about those magenta sequined converse (I won't say the "s" word so not to offend Dr. Isis)). There were a number of SfN speakers dressed like a member of some third-rate grunge band from the '90's. Boring.
Isis Quote: “But, it sucks as a feminist to have to give this advice because I could sense from this email that what our reader was really asking was how to wear what she wants without people thinking she doesn't take her science seriously or misinterpreting her clothing choices as a sexual suggestions.”
Of course, being male I generally don’t have to be concerned with sexism in my audience (Sadly, I don’t think my audience will ever be full of hot, gay men). But, I do apparently need to be aware of being perceived as too gay (as if that is a bad thing) or that I don’t take it seriously. I have had many a discussion with my mentors about my attire being much too, too “colorful” (read gay) and too distracting from the science I am presenting. And, my response is that my intentional "colorful" attire and coordinating color schemes demonstrates that I am quite invested in my science. And, I wear what makes me comfortable and confident. I demonstrate my commitment and interest in hot, hot science by speaking with authority and humor and by responding to questions and comments by shooting lasers out of my eyes at the audience to quell any dissent to my hypothesis…er, I mean by adroitly answering any inquiries. I have been on three faculty interviews over the past year in which I wore pink and navy blue with a hilarious pair of wide-toad, black-n-blue mesh leather shoes. I got a job offer on the last one.
So, I say to Sxydocma1, wear what makes you confident and then knock them out with your science and presentation skills. Of course, if what makes you confident is a two piece bikini than don’t follow my meager advice.
Posted by: Dr. Glitterbear | October 28, 2009 12:50 PM
"I have seen plenary sessions presented by men in flannel shirts and jeans (neuroscientists seem to channel their inner lumberjacks when they present at kidney meetings). I must admit, I considered them sloppy and disrespectful."
*good natured ribbing*
Yeah, you MD types are always batshit insane about proper dress. I was in an MD's lab for a rotation and he had banned all shirts that showed your shoulders (not just spaghetti strap tanks that look like they could be underware [which I rather understand], but all modest shells- anything that showed the scandalous arms! *gasp* Given the warm temp of this lab, this was borderline cruelty).
Face it, basic scientists (at least the grad students/postdocs/techs/people doing the bench work) do not get paid anywhere near enough to impress most MDs as well-dressed.
Posted by: becca | October 28, 2009 12:53 PM
Dr. Isis, I just started reading your blog and am so pleased that women in science are aware of fashion and presenting themselves confidently. I am in a field of biology where the folks are more of the granola type. Don't get me wrong -- I love granola. It makes sense when doing field work. But when not in the field, I feel that you're entitled to dress up a bit. Being the one of the only woman in my department who wears heels and GASP, mascara, I am encouraged by your love of shoes and hot science.
Posted by: EvolEcolgradstudent | October 28, 2009 1:49 PM
Is it just me, or does the woman in figure 3 - as adorable as she is - look like she "can't hold it anymore?" What's up with that pose?
Posted by: LadyDay | October 28, 2009 1:52 PM
David- in industry, you'd be counseled to refer this to HR. Its a touchy area- I don't know what you should do in academia. I'll be interested to see what people say. The woman in your group will probably figure things out for herself soon enough, though. Or she already knows and doesn't care.
soon2bphd- How about a nice tailored suit with a pencil skirt? I know they exist, because I own one.
I'm a firm believer in dressing to fit the culture you're working in. I was a consultant/contractor for awhile. I had some projects where I had to wear a suit anytime I went anywhere near the customer. I had other projects where the customer would assume I was interviewing for other jobs if I showed up in a suit.
Posted by: Cloud | October 28, 2009 2:48 PM
I wish I could figure out what to wear to conferences. I've figured out clothing for most people, but not techs.
Nice suit, worn comfortably: The folks with the money.
OK suit, worn comfortably: Junior faculty.
Bad suit, uncomfortably worn: Post-docs and old grad students.
"Business casual": new grad students who won't say a word.
Hiking clothes: Big PIs. (Women are slightly less likely to do this, but only slightly.)
But the One Thing? That's bloody brilliant!
Posted by: JustaTech | October 28, 2009 3:15 PM
I lovelovelove the One Something Amazing guideline. It says, "I'm here, I know how to conform. And just so you all know it, I have options."
You did it again, goddess!
Posted by: Gingerale | October 28, 2009 3:22 PM
As other commenters have implied, the expectations of your audience matter. At the sort of conferences I go to, dressing like the woman in Figure 3 is perfectly fine, as long as you feel comfortable wearing those shoes (which apparently Sxydocma1 does). If you are attending a conference of bankers, you probably want to go a little more conservative.
Being male, I don't have to worry so much about the finer details of dress codes. Business casual is an easy target for men to hit. We do get the occasional lumberjack or granola type (there is a legend concerning one scientist in my field, now a well-respected professor, who allegedly gave his first conference talk barefoot), but most guys go for either S-shoes or something along the lines of Oxfords or wing-tips. Women seem to have a finer line to tread, but if you can comfortably stand in stiletto heels for a few hours, go for it. That last proviso is important: especially if you are giving a poster, make sure you are comfortable standing in your shoes for a long time, even if it means wearing flats.
As for Becca's situation: There are some types of lab work (e.g., clean rooms) for which you do want to minimize exposed skin. However, if you work in such a lab you should be provided with a lab coat, in which case (as long as you aren't violating any local indecency statutes) why should the boss care what you're wearing under your lab coat? There are good safety reasons for avoiding open-toe shoes in lab, but otherwise shoes are usually not a problem (and again, if your lab falls into one of the few exceptions, you should be provided with appropriate footwear). When you're doing most kinds of field work, remember that your clothes are likely to get dirty and dress accordingly.
Posted by: Eric Lund | October 28, 2009 3:38 PM
The One Amazing Something guideline is pretty standard fashion advice. (Anyone seen “What Not To Wear” lately?)
I see this as a fashion issue, not really a feminist one. I never believe it when someone says that they are into fashion but claim to be only dressing for themselves. Fashion is all about the image one projects – how to control it and how to play with it.
Posted by: Hope | October 28, 2009 3:53 PM
Watch it. That was brilliant advice!!!!
Posted by: Isis the Scientist | October 28, 2009 4:03 PM
Cloud (#14) - I am in industry. My post specified noting the inappropriate dress on the day of the presentation, while at the conference. Referal to HR was not feasible in that circumstance - I had to handle it on the spot. The on-the-spot response is the tricky problem.
My group did get a separate HR visit afterward, which we affectionately call a "knuckle-rapping." And the damn peons subsequently let me in for all kinds of ridicule. As I deserved. This contributed to the many gray hairs that gain me some meager respect in the broader professional world.
Posted by: David | October 28, 2009 4:06 PM
@David (#7): How do I inform her of my opinion that her outfit is inappropriate?
In your situation, you don’t … unless you know her really, really well. In which case, you wouldn’t be asking this question.
Is the discussion different for a male or a female supervisor?
Nope. I’m a woman, and I never give my colleagues (male or female) unsolicited fashion advice.
Posted by: Hope | October 28, 2009 4:32 PM
I wear sneakers all the time Isis, wtf do you have against God's finest creation?
Posted by: BikeMonkey | October 28, 2009 5:41 PM
Exactly. Point made. BM wears sneakers all the time and I think that guy is an ass.
Do any of you really want to be like BM?
Posted by: Isis the Scientist | October 28, 2009 5:46 PM
Sneakers are as American as apple pie (with ice cream, none of that Eurofied cheese neither). Why do you hate America, Isis?
Posted by: BikeMonkey | October 28, 2009 6:14 PM
Hope (#21) - I don't think "no action" is acceptable. The poster presents the corporate position on the science, and my responsibility is in part to the reputation of the company. It's also not just "fashion advice" - I don't care if somebody wears an ugly tie or scarf. It's advice from a supervisor and mentor to a junior scientist on appropriate conduct. A key concept is the "CLEM" - career limiting move.
How should it be phrased?
Posted by: David | October 28, 2009 7:06 PM
If the issue is corporate image then you should have a corporate dress code that HR can help enforce.
Posted by: Isis the Scientist | October 28, 2009 7:23 PM
Ah... professional dress. You poor scientists have to deal with it only on "presentation" days? What about female lawyers?
My daughter works a firm so conservative that until last month the females HAD to wear hose. Open toe and open heel shoes are still not allowed. Fortunately for all female attorneys in that very large firm (which, ironically has very liberal maternity/paternity leave options) one more female made partner and revised the dress code for women to no longer require pantyhose.
So far, men are still required to wear suit and tie and women are required to wear "professional" clothes which is almost entirely limited to suits of some kind.
This is every day of the week. And if you are to appear in court, you'd best look even more "professional".
Self-expression when representing someone else is basically not considered professional. My daughter's firm recently had new photos made for all the attorneys and I've got to say... those who tried to "express" themselves in some way really looked ridiculous... especially the men.
Women can express some aspect of their personality in their choice of clothing, whereas men can't quite make it work.
Posted by: Donna B. | October 28, 2009 7:33 PM
Sneakers really have no space in my wardrobe. Towards one end of the formality scale I use nice, comfortable black shoes and on the other I have my sandals*. There's really no room in between for sneakers.
Besides, I'm not 12 anymore; sneakers and shorts are for sports, not for daily life. Men my age look more than a little ridiculous dressed like they're on the way to their bestest friend ever to play Nintendo and have cookies and milk.
* I know, many people dislike sandals for some reason. But in many countries (including Japan, where I live, and Sweden, my home country) you no more wear shoes indoors than you would wear a coat. And that goes for most office work too - you take off your outdoor shoes and put on slippers or sandals. Believe me, your feet will thank you for it.
And before anybody starts thinking about smelly feet, they're smelly _because_ you're wearing shoes all day long. Which is why the habit of shoes indoors seems vaguely disgusting to many.
Posted by: Janne | October 28, 2009 8:08 PM
of course there's a dress code. she violated it, and I was on the spot. How does one voice the concern? I know how I handled it, but I'd like to do better.
Posted by: David | October 28, 2009 9:17 PM
Thank you for such excellent, well-timed advice! I find it so difficult to dress for conferences, as I work in the physical sciences where any form of femininity is frowned upon. I turned up to the last conference in flats and a conservative, knee-length dress and was the most over-dressed attendee (of ~500) by far.
I'm off to another conference in a tropical climate soon, and I'm not sure whether to bring my dresses or, heaven forbid, heels, or wear the ugly shorts-t-shirt combo so beloved by my colleagues and superiors. Either way, I'll be sure to take my favourite red heels - just in case.
Posted by: Em | October 29, 2009 2:38 AM
Well, I hate BM and America.
Dr. Isis, the time has come.
What shoes should I wear? I mean for everyday boring things, when I am in lab and need something reasonably comfortable. I'm certainly not in the habit of wearing heels, although I could consider a 'starter heel' since they might not be a bad habit (I am short).
Posted by: becca | October 29, 2009 9:56 AM
David- I don't think there was anything you could do on the spot. Its not like she'd have had a different outfit in her bag and been able to change on the spot.
I have witnessed several young women wear inappropriately revealing things at conferences and other events where they were representing the company. Unless I know the woman really, really well, I keep my mouth shut. There is just no graceful way to give the advice, and is an area that my sexual harassment training class would label a "yellow light"- i.e., proceed with caution.
In the one case where I knew the woman well, I casually raised the topic of career dress much later, and we had a discussion in which I was able to give my opinion, based on my experience as a woman in a very male-dominated field. I did NOT single out any outfit she wore, or even make the discussion about her.
If your concern is that she's limiting her career options by dressing inappropriately, then you could try having a more general discussion about how to get ahead in your field.
And I still think that there is a chance that she is aware of the norms and chooses to flaunt them. In which case, its really none of your business beyond enforcing dress code.
@Donna B- when I was on the project that required me to wear suits, I had to go out and buy several suits. That sucked- but I will say that it did make getting dressed in the morning a lot easier. I'd hate a rule that required pantyhose and fight any rule that forbade trousers on women. But a rule that requires suits on everyone would be OK, as long as I was paid well enough to afford the suits and the dry cleaning.
Posted by: Cloud | October 29, 2009 11:03 AM