Molecules: You'd better learn to live with them.
Via Fark: a blog last week remarked about McDonald's chicken products, quoting The Omnivore's Dilemma::
But perhaps the most alarming ingredient in a Chicken McNugget is tertiary butylhydroquinone, or TBHQ, an antioxidant derived from petroleum that is either sprayed directly on the nugget or the inside of the box it comes in to "help preserve freshness." According to A Consumer's Dictionary of Food Additives, TBHQ is a form of butane (i.e. lighter fluid) the FDA allows processors to use sparingly in our food: It can comprise no more than 0.02 percent of the oil in a nugget. Which is probably just as well, considering that ingesting a single gram of TBHQ can cause "nausea, vomiting, ringing in the ears, delirium, a sense of suffocation, and collapse." Ingesting five grams of TBHQ can kill.
I don't know whether we should be eating high quantities of preservatives in our food, but this is just scaremongering.
A nugget containing the claimed maximum, 0.02 percent, would require you to eat 5kg to attain a TBHQ dose of 1 gram. A 20-piece order has a mass of 320g. A maximally-preserved batch of nuggets would require one to eat 312.5 nuggets (13,125 kcal/54,915 kJ) to obtain this dose. I enjoy the occasional ultra-processed nugget, but they aren't that tasty.
Second, the post assumes you don't know chemistry: TBHQ contains a butyl moiety (a tert-butyl moiety, more accurately), but so does butter, which contains esters of the blameless butyrate (when degraded to free butyrate, it's the origin of the smell of rancid butter, esterified, as in fresh butter, it's not a problem). Butter is not lighter fluid, nor is TBHQ:
Contrast the very different butane or higher alkanes (such as the six-carbon hexane), which compose real lighter fluid, which will harm you if you ingest it (or inhale too much) and won't protect your food against spoilage.
A butyl group does not butane make. It's worth noting that preservatives might not be entirely benign (you also encounter BHT and BHA, your cereal box's cardboard is probably impregnated with one of these). However, none of these are lighter fluid by a long shot.
Comments
The horrors of natural antioxidants ("Mommy, why is chocolate brown?") are Officially good for you. Beautifully clean and exquisitely targetted synthetic antioxidants are Officially bad. Topical hydroquinine derivatives reduce pigmentation of your browneye. Imagine how the national economy would boom if female pornstars were not chronically impoverished by the professional standard of anal bleaching.
Whipping McDonalds products with some all-natural creosote bush (nordihydroguaiaretic acid) would improve both the preservation and the taste. Save Our Children! Preserve the US food supply with massive Federal subsidies for creosote bush farmers.
Posted by: Uncle Al | March 29, 2007 12:39 PM
Still and all, if 312 nuggets = "nausea, vomiting, ringing in the ears, delirium, a sense of suffocation, and collapse," doesn't it seem that 10 or 15 nuggets might be...not great? And especially if one was a once- or twice-weekly nugget-eater?
Just a thought.
Posted by: Katherine Sharpe | March 29, 2007 1:00 PM
When I read the sentence fragment "TBHQ is a form of butane" I instantly wanted to scream and claw out my eyes.
Just because a compound is harmful in large quantities does not imply that it will do anything bad in smaller ones. There is a flood of trite examples of compounds which are beneficial or necessary at small quantities but harmful when the dosage is increased 30 times. To expect different from something simply because it is synthetic is just chemophobia.
Posted by: Allan | March 29, 2007 1:31 PM
That's 0.02 percent of the oil in the nugget. While it's hard to tell exactly how much of the nugget consists of oil, 100% is likely a bit high.
Posted by: rehana | March 29, 2007 2:45 PM
Sure, if you eat 15 nuggets twice a week, you're ingesting some bad stuff - but the stuff you should be worrying about isn't TBHQ at that point...
Remember, pharmacology and toxicology only differ by dose...there are plenty of substances that can cause major problems for us in quantity that we routinely ingest in very minute amounts. In chicken nuggets, the damage you're getting from fat and cholesterol and its nutritional issues far outweigh any TBHQ you might ingest.
Posted by: cephyn | March 29, 2007 3:31 PM
"Topical hydroquinine derivatives reduce pigmentation of your browneye."
Only Uncle Al can bring such visual hilarity to a post on antioxidants. Is there anything he doesn't know...
Posted by: around the corner and down the hall | March 29, 2007 3:36 PM
I'd like to nominate the active ingredient in the anal bleach for an upcoming Molecule of the Day. I think it's important to get this information out to the public.
Posted by: ricardog | March 29, 2007 6:59 PM
Shouldn't we be more worried about the chlorine in our (table) salt, a form of which is a toxic gas?
Oh wait, that's an essential element for our bodies - oops!
Posted by: David | March 29, 2007 9:18 PM
I agree that this sounds more like scaremongering, but most of The Omnivore's Dilemma is a real gem, especially the discussion of corn and its manifestations in our life.
Posted by: Wavefunction | March 30, 2007 2:19 PM
Whilst doing my PhD I used 2,5-di-(t-butyl)-1,4-benzohydroquinone (i.e. TBHQ plus an extra butyl group) to induce apoptosis in isolated rat thymocytes. It does this by inhibiting the endoplasmic reticulum calcium pump, thereby flooding the cytoplasm with calcium ions. Not sure whether this provides any insights into the mechanisms by which hydroquinone derivatives remove rust from one's sheriff's badge, but I'm not sure that extensive apoptosis in the anorectal epithelia would be a good thing...
Posted by: TLC | April 1, 2007 9:18 AM
rehana,
Good catch - if you use the fat content of the nuggets as an upper bound for oil, you get 2040.82 nuggets.
Kathrine,
To visualize the difference a factor of 100 can make consider acetaminophen. 500 mg is effective pain relief. 50,000 mg is likely to kill you.
Posted by: MattXIV | April 4, 2007 1:09 AM
I am highly allergic to MSG and TBHQ produces similar side effects.
Posted by: Tanya | April 12, 2007 3:20 PM
How about a general rule: You don't get to call something "poisonous" if the "hazardous dose" would hurt when thrown at your head?
;-)
Posted by: David Harmon | April 20, 2007 12:30 PM
WHY ON EARTH DOES THE FDA OR WHOEVER ALLOW THESE CHEMICALS THAT ARE SO HARMFUL BE PUT IN OUR FOODS? I WOULD CALL THAT A CHEMICAL WAR. PROTECT OUR CHILDREN AND GROW AS MUCH FOOD AS YOU CAN IN GARDENS AND PRESERVE IT YOURSELF. WARS TAKE OUR CHILDREN AND WE ARE HEADING TO EXTINCTION AND WE NEED TO PUT A STOP TO THIS.
Posted by: MARLENE CUPPY | September 24, 2007 5:40 PM
I just ingested some TBHQ.
Posted by: Navus Janus | December 18, 2007 5:58 PM
This is a very interesting site.
Am a clinical pharmacist and appreciate the scientific information presented. My daughter is doing a science project on food preservatives and enjoyed this discussion.
Her comment was "well it won't kill us today, but I am never eating fast food again" she is 9.
The TBHQ is in the fries the buns, ubiquitous in the MCD food.
Posted by: amy | February 8, 2008 2:12 PM
Hi, I'm not a chemist or student of science, just a mum!
Could I just throw out there (as I have been enjoying the discussion too) what about the age factor?
The nugget is particularly attractive too, and consumed by, children (with the exceptions of a few adults :) )
As I understand it, children are far less efficient at breaking down any toxins in their systems and the due to the growth and development they are going through, environmental toxins have the potntial to be far more damaging than in us adults.
I also worry about the synergistic effect for children. Their fries plus their blue sipper drink, plus the preservative in their bread, plus the sulphites in their museli bar at lunch and the fly spray mum just used in the kitchen! Toxicity may be dose related but do we know what a child's true "dose" is at the end of the day and how it is interacting with all the other stuff they come into contact with?
Unless any chemical additive is really essential, why are we putting it in again?
Mel
Posted by: mel | February 8, 2008 11:18 PM
I just saw this TBHQ on a package, and then another, and then another! Keep reading thoes labels, and make calls to keep the labels true!
Posted by: philip | February 14, 2008 10:41 PM
WE AND OUR KIDS ABSORB HUNDREDS OF TRACE AMOUNTS OF DIFFERENT TOXIC CHEMICALS DAILY.
THE ACCUMULATIVE EFFECT SIGNIFICANTLY CONTRIBUTES TO DISEASE AND
CHEMICALS AND ADDITIVES IN "INNOCENT" FOODS AND "INNOCENT" PRODUCTS ALSO CAUSE REDUCED COGNITIVE PERFORMANCE AND BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS.
INSTEAD OF COUNTING HOW MANY CHICKEN NUGGETS TO POISON A HUMAN, PLEASE DO THE REAL MATH... ADD UP EVERY CHEMICAL YOU ABSORB IN ONE DAY...
ALL CHEMICALS, ARTIFICIAL INGREDIENTS AND HYDROGENATED OILS ON FOOD LABELS, CROP PESTICIDES, HOME CLEANSER INGREDIENTS, PERSONAL CARE PRODUCTS, COLOGNE, LOTIONS, SCENTED CANDLES, AIR FRESHENERS (WHICH IRONICALLY ARE CHEMICALS THAT REDUCE INDOOR AIR QUALITY), SHOE SPRAY, EVERYTHING CONTAINING "FRAGRANCE"... EVERYTHING YOU INHALE, EAT, OR ABSORB THROUGH YOUR SKIN... READ LABELS. IN JUST ONE DAY YOU HAVE A LONG LIST OF TOXIC CHEMICALS. MULTIPLY BY 365 DAYS A YEAR.
TRY REPLACING WITH NATURAL PRODUCTS. VINEGAR, BAKING SODA FOR CLEANING. SMALL HAND HELD HEAT STEAMER TO REMOVE TOUGH DIRT AND GERMS. 2 DROPS OF DISH LIQUID IN WATER SPRAY BOTTLE IS GREAT WINDOW CLEANER. COMMERCIALS PREY ON GERM FEARS TO SELL MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN TOXIC CHEMICALS.
THE WORD "FRAGRANCE" ON ANY LABEL IS VERY TOXIC. TEENS ARE OBSESSED WITH FRAGRANCES IN EVERY PRODUCT UNTIL THEY LEARN THE TRUTH. SOME NATURAL FRAGRANCES CAN BE FOUND IN HEALTH FOOD STORES.
IF WE FORGET THE DOZENS OF TOXIC PRODUCTS WE DON'T NEED, WE CAN AFFORD SOME 100% NATURAL AND ORGANIC FOODS... AND THEN A FEW CHICKEN NUGGETS HERE AND THERE WON'T HURT US.
Posted by: Sue | February 21, 2008 1:41 PM
I just emailed nutrition@utzsnacks.com this link, and told them I can not believe they have taken BHT and BHA out of most premium dog food and they are putting it in Grandmas's UTZ'S Handcooked potato chips. I am angry what these company's are allowed to do and call it safe. God Bless our children.
Posted by: Donna Aumick | February 27, 2008 11:20 AM
To answer all the questions on why this crap is in the food, one only needs to watch "ENDGAME: BLUEPRINT FOR GLOBAL ENSLAVEMENT" which is available on dvd and I believe it can also be found on utube and google video.
Posted by: Jim Dandy | March 1, 2008 7:40 AM
You people are pathetic. i am a retard. fuck you. im smarter.
nobody cares what is in their food, as long as it tastes good. cock suckers
Posted by: Luke Taylor | March 15, 2008 2:27 PM
I just googled this preservative because I found the ingredient in my daughters girl scout cookies!! Don't know whether to believe that it is butane but I know it can't be good. I wanted to eat another cookie. But now I feel like I can't. I am disguted by all the chemicals our governement allows to be put in our food that are outlawed all over the rest of the world. Including this preservative.
Posted by: Laura | March 15, 2008 8:32 PM
who cares? just eat
Posted by: Joe Anderson | March 22, 2008 6:45 PM
SAY NO TO TBHQ, BHT, BHA and other noxious preservatives (all natural Vitamin E [mixed tocopherols] is ok). Each of them gives me a bad headache within a few minutes of ingestion. That's a quick pathway across the blood/brain barrier. Oh, and by the way, BHT and its lovely cousins oxidize serotonin in lab rats. That's NOT GOOD in case you didn't know it.
Posted by: Peter | March 31, 2008 4:12 PM
It's funny what a little google listing will do.
Compare the comments at the beginning of this discussion (i.e. by regular readers) and at the end (by googlenauts).
Posted by: Forest | July 4, 2008 10:55 PM
I love how these seemingly intelligent people are telling you to "just eat it", regardless of common sense (which is no longer common, by the way). Hopefully, they are taking their own advice. It is called "natural selection"! Get some chickens to do your yard/insect work for you (most cities permit a few pet chickens), and give you some eggs. Grow some of your own food, read labels, lay off the soft drinks, and reward yourself with more energy, less cancer, and a sexy tush.
Posted by: Deborah | September 8, 2008 2:56 PM
I got a free coupon for a McD's chicken thing with an Amazon order. I *never* eat there, but I thought, what the heck. So I ate one for breakfast. Wow, I become so violently ill I couldn't believe it. This was not food poisoning as I am definitely prone to migraines after eating MSG - this was a severe form of that. When I could think again, I looked up the ingredients of McDs stuff and it all seemed sort of reasonable. But TBHQ stood out in my mind as something I didn't understand. After reading this, I'd bet against a day of torture by eating a McD's chicken sandwich *without* TBHQ. But until that happens, I'm going to avoid the stuff like I avoid drinking butane (even though I realize that's a chemistry coincidence). Some people are just a lot more sensitive to this kind of toxicity. I also can not metabolize alcohol in a pleasant way, for example. But to say the stuff isn't harmful is probably not quite correct. Certainly not universally correct.
Posted by: An Ed | September 30, 2008 2:24 PM
By the way, just so you know, TBHQ is in Olive Garden croutons!
Posted by: orange | October 26, 2008 12:15 PM
Of course all the hype over TBHQ seems a little trivial when we know that consuming water in excessively high quantities is deadly. Everything in moderation.
Posted by: SusanLynne_Amherst,NH | October 30, 2008 11:53 AM
If you really want solid info on all of these additives and perservatives, artifical flavor and artificial colors in your food, soap, clothes, toys, certain recycled things, etc.....please go to www.yourtruehealth.com. Seriously this government is corrupt. Imagine what's in medicine.
Posted by: asia | November 18, 2008 8:46 PM
PLEASE READ (just to name a few)
Acacia (or) gum arabic- used in shoe polish, matches, cough syrup, icing,etc....umm
Ajinomoto- japanese term for MSg
Ambergis- "flavoring agent" from intestines of sperm whales...artifical flavor...right
PepsinI from a pigs stomach, used in cheese making and vitamins.
One more for the road, they say 1 in 150 children are diagnosed with ADHD, why don't they tell us that dyes play a huge part in that
ie.,red40, blue 1 and 2, yellow 5, etc... "all dyes". Which are for some reason the same dyes they use in our clothes. If you run out of juice please follow instuctions: fill container with ice cold water, wet your cheap or expensive blue shirt, wet it, ring it out over water container, add sugar and shake, wolla...blueberry juice.
Posted by: asia | November 18, 2008 9:12 PM
TBHQ is a terrible substance, I am very allergic to TBHQ which gives my anaphylactic shock. I check everything I eat for this substance and it is in a disturbingly large amount of foods. I agree say no to TBHQ.
Posted by: Caroline | December 3, 2008 12:10 AM
I discovered this blog after looking for info on side effects of tbhq. Last night after eating taco shells preserved with tbhq I became ill...vomiting,etc. I have a rare medical condition called mastocytocis and have to be careful of certain preservatives especially sulfites. I am not a stranger to anaphylactic shock. Mostly,though , a reaction manifests with g. i. upset, face flushing and headaches. It pays to read everything on the label and if you don't know what it is, don't eat it!
Posted by: Luanne | January 13, 2009 8:33 AM
tlc, you're a nerd.
Posted by: kevin | January 21, 2009 2:46 AM
Read the book "More Natural Cures They Dont Want You to Know About." It will really open your eyes to why people get so sick and the sickos that help run the country!!!!!
Posted by: weinerdoglover | January 25, 2009 11:17 PM
I’ve become aware of the poisoning of our food and have started to look closer at what I’m eating. I am not a chemist or even a student on the subject. I noticed TBHQ in my Oreo’s 9which I wont be eating again) a looked up this mystery ingredient. This is what I found on the specification of TBHQ:
1. Description, Off white crystalline solid
2. Melting Range, 126.5°C to 128.5°C
3. Solubility, Soluble in alcohol and ether, insoluble in water
4. Assay, Min 99%
5. Hydroquinone content, Max 0.1%
6. 2,5 Ditertiary Butyl Hydroquinone content Max 0.2%
7. t-Butyl-p-Benzoquinone, Max 0.2%
8. Heavy Metals (as Pb), Max 10 ppm
9. Arsenic (as As), Max 3 ppm
10. Toluene content, Max 0.0025%
11. UV Absorbence (Polynuclear Hydrocarbons), Complies as per FCC
#5 is a type of benzene and it’s use is banned in some countries, including the member states of the European Union, it is used in photo development, it reduces silver halides to elemental silver. It is also a skin whitener. Mmm mmm good!
#6 according to a safety data sheet requires suitable protective clothing, suitable gloves and in case of insufficient ventilation, wear suitable respiratory equipment. Can’t wait to eat!
#7 according to a safety data sheet requires safety glasses and adequate ventilation.
May act as a skin or eye irritant. Toxicology not fully investigated. Sounds yummy!
#9 is notoriously poisonous and is used in pesticides, herbicides, insecticides and various alloys. Can’t wait to dig in!
#10 is related to benzene and is also known as methylbenzene or phenylmethane, it is a solvent and is used as paint thinner, it is also used as an inhalant drug for its intoxicating properties. It cannot exit the body via the normal routes (urine, feces, or sweat). It must be metabolized in order to be excreted and may severely damage cells. Makes me salivate!
#11 are hydrocarbon compounds with multiple benzene rings. PAHs are typical components of asphalts, fuels, oils, and greases. Very tasty!
Please correct me if I’m wrong (cause I liked Oreo’s)
Posted by: Dylan Farrell | January 27, 2009 11:04 AM
Bottom line for me is that TBHQ is awful. I knew nothing of this, and only learned because of my daughter's reaction to McDonalds Mcnuggets. I noticed that every time she ate them something seemed to be very wrong with her. She wasn't herself, couldn't engage with friends, and became bonkers! I did some research to find out why this happened, and lo and behold discovered TBHQ. I have since done many an observation/test with her on foods with TBHQ among other preservatives, and EVERY time they have a profound effect. Naysayers say what you will, but there is no disputing it when you see it firsthand in your child.
Posted by: Amy | March 5, 2009 2:56 AM
I found TBHQ in my favorite (no longer) snack of Cheez-its...
Lost my taste for them...
Annie B
Posted by: Annie B | March 14, 2009 1:37 AM
Chalk me up as another one that gets migraines from TBHQ.... and MSG, and these other preservatives: BHA, BHT, sulfites, sodium phosphate (I think this is an additive, not technically a preservative), sodium nitrate/nitrite, calcium disodium EDTA, tetrasodium EDTA. And yes, quantity matters. The more I eat, the more intense the migraine.
But the most important info I have for anyone who suspects problems from such chemicals: for me, it takes anywhere from 4-36 hours for the headache to start. MSG is pretty quick, but TBHQ takes 16+ hours or so. This made/makes it very difficult to find the offending ingredients. I have to stay off all additives for 2-3 days, only try ONE new item, then wait 2-3 days before I can truly isolate a perpetrator. And then I have to question if I ate a sufficient quantity to produce a noticeable effect. Contrast my experience with Peter who says it affects him within a few minutes. My dad has similar problems, and he can eat BHT in cereal once, but if he eats it 2-3 days in row, it accumulates and makes him sick.
I'm sure many can eat this crap until they're 95 and never have a problem. If they want to believe their body can handle it over the long term just fine, whatever. Hope it works out for them.
Posted by: SteveT | March 30, 2009 11:18 AM
Dylan, you should try Newman's Organics Newman'Os - they're organic oreo cookies and they're delicious!
By the way, thanks for your comments - I concur!
Posted by: Clare Brady | April 5, 2009 9:28 AM
I can accept a person’s point of view but, when misinformation is disseminated to the masses, I just can't let that slide. Let me clarify something about BTHQ, it is not a naturally occurring molecule when butter ferments, as one post proclaims, butyric acid or butanoic acid, however, is! Butyric acid is a fatty acid. The triglyceride of butyric acid makes up 3% to 4% of butter and when butter ferments, it releases an unpleasant odor. BTHQ is a harmful chemical preservative along with BHA and BHT, which are just the tip of the iceberg of the preservatives the FDA deems safe for consumption. My suggestion is to stay away from any processed food. Especially fast food of any kind no matter how good it may look or taste! As for the diot trying to justify the existence of BTHQ, shame on you! You are the problem with this world! Your views are harmful to humanity, DAMN YOU!
Posted by: Todd Wilson | April 29, 2009 10:31 PM
I guess I should have checked my spelling before I posted this comment originally, so TBHQ is the molecule in question here not BTHQ as I stated earlier. I’m just livid at the idiot touting the benefits of TBHQ as a natural occurring triglyceride in butter, THAT IS UTTERLY INCORRECT! So anyway here it is, I can accept a person’s point of view but, when misinformation is disseminated to the masses, I just can't let that slide. Let me clarify something about TBHQ, it is not a naturally occurring molecule when butter ferments, as one post proclaims, butyric acid or butanoic acid, however, is! Butyric acid is a fatty acid. The triglyceride of butyric acid makes up 3% to 4% of butter and when butter ferments, it releases an unpleasant odor. TBHQ is therefore a harmful chemical preservative along with BHA and BHT, which are just the tip of the iceberg of the preservatives the FDA deems safe for consumption. My suggestion is to stay away from any processed food. Especially fast food of any kind no matter how good it may look or taste! As for the idiot trying to justify the existence of TBHQ, shame on you! You are the problem with this world! Your views are harmful to humanity, DAMN YOU!
Posted by: Todd Wilson | April 29, 2009 10:53 PM
Fight Swine flu with chicken McNuggets ???
Odd what search engines generate.... I was looking for this flu inhibitor reference and found a wealth of anger about the BTHQ molecule.
Take a look at the paper
Structure of influenza hemagglutinin in complex
with an inhibitor of membrane fusion
17736–17741 PNAS November 18, 2008 vol. 105 no. 46
Maybe the M logo should add
"One nugget to be taken/day after a meal" ?
Posted by: Jab | April 30, 2009 9:56 AM
It can't hurt to stay away from the stuff. Obviously its not clear one way or the other.
Posted by: Alicia | May 7, 2009 8:28 PM
Oh my god, what a clusterfuck of retards.
Dylan Farrel, you're a moron. Sure, those are the correct chemicals (almost) that you're dealing with, however, those are the specifications for pure TBHQ - which is present at ~ 33 ppm in the nuggets.
Every single impurity you've mentioned is around 1 in a 1000, giving a concentration of around 10 ppB in the nugget, except for toluene, which is at a conc of 25 ppm in the TBHQ, so there will be 0.8 ppb. That's technically known as 'fuck all'
Hydroquinone is a not a "type of benzene" benzene is benzene, moron, that's why it's called benzene. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroquinone. See those OHs? That means it's not benzene.
You need gloves and ventilation to handle any chemical, so that doesn't differentiate t-Butyl-p-Benzoquinone from any other chemical. Stop looking for scares there.
I hate to break it to you, but everything contains dangerous chemicals - even your water. Even water that government chemists call absolute pure contains 2 ppb hydroxonium ions, which are literally pure acid!
And Todd Wilson, learn to fucking read before you berate people, seriously.
God, this thread is depressing.
Posted by: Sault | May 11, 2009 7:13 AM
And people wonder why diseases like cancer nd the like are spreading like wildfire everywhere. These corporations dont care what preservatives they use even if its harmful as long as they are profitable, its so sick. And when u wanna eat fruit nd veg its sprayed with harmful pestisides and genetically modified and livestock are fed with rubbish nd genetically modified feeds all TO MAKE BIGGER PROFITS.When u want to buy organic its so expensive so theres no way out. I know its off the topic but i had to write this
Posted by: uweis | May 18, 2009 8:03 AM
I can see Sault's frustration with all the people here who claim to know chemistry but in actual fact learned it from a For Dummies book or worse. However, my most favourite part of the entire thread are the words "remove rust from one's sheriff's badge", posted a couple of years ago by TLC. Nearly laughed my badge off at that.
Posted by: Jack | June 3, 2009 5:45 AM