Pharyngula

Just when you think the lunatic Right can’t possibly get any more deranged, we’ve got Minnesota’s own Christian Libertarian, Vox Day, to raise the wingnut bar another couple of meters. He doesn’t like our president, but not for the reasons I dislike him: it’s because George just doesn’t realize the full extent of American power. The immigration problem is nothing, and is easily solved.

And he will be lying [GW Bush, in his address to the nation], again, just as he lied when he said: “Massive deportation of the people here is unrealistic—it’s just not going to work.”

Not only will it work, but one can easily estimate how long it would take. If it took the Germans less than four years to rid themselves of 6 million Jews, many of whom spoke German and were fully integrated into German society, it couldn’t possibly take more than eight years to deport 12 million illegal aliens, many of whom don’t speak English and are not integrated into American society.

Now you might be thinking that this is a terrible idea, and that turning the force of the State against millions of people sounds fascist and not at all like what a good Christian Libertarian would propose, and you’d be right. Mr Day isn’t suggesting that we enable a large authoritarian state to do the work: at the first word of a pogrom, I mean “deportation program”, he thinks a third of the aliens will immediately skedaddle, and market forces and the mob are sufficient to take care of the rest.

A fence is not necessary, for there are other means of efficiently resolving the problem without resorting to such an obviously dangerous measure. Instant deportation policies, employer fines and bounty programs combined with the denial of all social services to non-citizens would suffice to settle the matter without the need to imprison the American citizenry. As the Minutemen have proven, again, unleashing the power of motivated private citizens is far more efficient than relying on government bureaucrats.

Strip illegal immigrants of all rights and privileges, set bounties, unleash the armed mobs, and the immigration problem is solved! Now why didn’t we think of that?

Oh, right. Because we aren’t freakin’ nuts.

(via Yowling from the Fencepost)

Comments

  1. #1 Stanton
    May 15, 2006

    And when did this twit stop taking his medication?

  2. #2 tacitus
    May 15, 2006

    Many Dominionists ascribe to libertarian principles. They want to devolve most if not all government down to the local level and have people follow the tribal laws as laid down in the Old Testament.

    Not only would government be locally run, but other aspects of life too–food production, entertainment, schooling, etc. They want to see a “return” to some form of idyllic, pastoral life (that never existed) removing all trace of the modern evils of Hollywood, global trade and the ungodly federal government.

    Good luck with that. 🙂

  3. #3 PaulC
    May 15, 2006

    As the Minutemen have proven, again, unleashing the power of motivated private citizens is far more efficient than relying on government bureaucrats.

    Even if you buy the premise that vigilantes are good, I’m missing the proof of efficiency, or any noticeable effect whatsoever on illegal immigration. I’m really mystified as to what Vox Day thinks has been “proven” except for the lasting power of xenophobia to motivate the yahoos.

  4. #4 Andrew_Wyatt
    May 15, 2006

    What a lunatic. Who says this guy is a libertarian? I’ve heard principaled libertarians talk about immigration; they might be for less labor regulation, but they’re also for more freedom of movement and less money wasted on narcotics enforcement. Someone needs to explain to this guy the difference between limited government as a means of protection liberty and outright ochlocracy. Dipshit.

  5. #5 Russell
    May 15, 2006

    Vox Day is no more libertarian than P Z Myers is high Anglican. Like many of the right wingnuts, Vox opposes abortion, in vitro fertilization, and similar technologies. His stance regarding immigration is also unlibertarian, especially his call to haul suspected immigrants away in cattle cars. No one is a libertarian, until they first are a civil libertarian. I know many libertarians. I don’t agree with them politically. But they are no Vox Day.

  6. #6 speedwell
    May 15, 2006

    Calling the government down to intervene in the lives of the people and infringe their freedom is flat out contrary to libertarian principles. Period.

  7. #7 cinkcool
    May 15, 2006

    “The Libertarian Party has long recognized the importance of allowing free and open immigration, understanding that this leads to a growing and more prosperous America. We condemn the xenophobic immigrant bashing that would build a wall around the United States.”

    From the LP website. http://www.lp.org/issues/immigration.shtml

  8. #8 Black Ops
    May 15, 2006

    Dish’n some background out. Check the following WorldNutDaily article, about a guy named Robert Beale and his tax woes:

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=32878

    Notice the blurb at the bottom: “By way of disclosure, Robert Beale is a board member and stockholder in WorldNetDaily.com”.

    So, guess what Vox Day’s real name is? Theodore Beale. In case you were wondering how Vox got his writing gig, well, it doesn’t hurt when your daddy’s on the board. It’s especially helpful when you’re a wingnut who can’t write very well to begin with, but whatever. Theodore Beale is, in fact, the son of Robert Beale.

    Anyway, Theodore Beale/Vox Day are quite fully developed alter-egos, in a weird MPD sort of way. Vox never mentions Theodore, and Theodore, it turns out, never mentions Vox, despite Theodore’s thriving (well, sort of) career writing some rather bizarre Christian fantasy fiction:

    http://www.eternalwarriors.com/

    Yes, that’s also “Vox Day”, except without the Eddie Munster hairdo. If you have an iron constitution, you can read some excerpts of his fiction at the site above….

  9. #9 George Cauldron
    May 15, 2006

    Shall we also discuss his commitment to Christian principles?

    I hear the Republicans are trying to ‘court the Hispanic vote’ this year.

  10. #10 BlueIndependent
    May 15, 2006

    Some people from one of the local TV stations in Phoenix went undercover into the minutemen organization. The video they showed revealed a lot about these people. Most of them are one small step from joining backwater militias. There was video of real American citizens being harassed by minutemen, and their property trespassed upon by small mobs of men at night and during the day. You can just imagine what happened when someone *looking* Mexican (but who was actually American-born and a citizen) was spotted.

    This is what it’s come to friends. ultra-right militia types “defending” our borders. Why is it every time I see their press conferences on C-SPAN, I think KKK? Their rhetoric is childish at best, blatantly confrontational, and all about power and force to get anything done, no matter how small.

  11. #11 Virge
    May 15, 2006

    There’s a VD disguised as Vox Day;
    Libertarian? Christian? No way…

    Vector Day

  12. #12 wheatdogg
    May 15, 2006

    Strip illegal immigrants of all rights and privileges, set bounties, unleash the armed mobs, and the immigration problem is solved!

    The rulers of Spain did something like this in 1492 to rid the country of the Jews. It was the brainchild of Torquemada, the head of the Spanish Inquisition. Since the Jews were a powerful economic force in Spain, their expulsion depressed the economy in the long run, although seizure of their property enriched some Christians in the short run.

    Booting out our undocumented aliens might not create such profound economic effects as Spain suffered, but economically it can’t be a good idea. I predict that once the midterm elections are over, all this anti-immigration foofaroar will fizzle out, and W will need to find some other cause to pander to.

  13. #13 Jeff Fecke
    May 15, 2006

    The real question is when Vox deports/liquidates the Mexicans, will he be deporting those evil women as well?

  14. #14 Orac
    May 15, 2006

    Vox also can’t get his history right, as I show in my post scheduled for tomorrow morning.

  15. #15 Chris
    May 15, 2006

    I would even go so far as to say that “Christian Libertarian” is an oxymoron. Anyone who would support a King of Kings, Lord of Lords, etc. – let alone any ruler that threatens people with torture to compel obedience – isn’t a libertarian.

    No matter what you may think about the present state of this country’s sometimes rocky relationship with immigration, I hope there isn’t anyone so far gone that they think an epidemic of mob violence would be an *improvement*.

    But then, I guess all those ex-KKK members had to go somewhere.

    P.S. Has there ever, in the history of the U.S., been *any* terrorist act committed by a Mexican against a U.S. target? Or any illegal immigrant of any Central or South American origin? Is there any support, however flimsy, for the claim that keeping out immigrants looking for jobs also keeps out terrorists?

  16. #16 Orac
    May 16, 2006

    The real question is when Vox deports/liquidates the Mexicans, will he be deporting those evil women as well?

    Of course not. He needs them around to make babies. He’ll only deport feminists, whom he considers worse than Nazis.

  17. #17 Samnell
    May 16, 2006

    “Has there ever, in the history of the U.S., been *any* terrorist act committed by a Mexican against a U.S. target?”

    Yes, in fact. But I wouldn’t count on Vox knowing about it. Pahcno Villa invaded the United States with a band of between 500 and 1500 armed men and attacked the town of Colombus, New Mexico. They killed about 18 people and burned the town, making off with some weapons and supplies. The US sent John Pershing and six thousand men to invade Mexico (then in a state of civil war) and get him. Villa successfully evaded them. This all went down in 1916.

    This is not only small potatoes from 90 years ago, it was also perpetrated by people long dead who have nothing to do with our current illegals except their nation of origin. Of course nation of origin is all the wingers have ever needed to hate someone. Or skin color. Or sex life. Or religious opinions.

  18. #18 woofsterNY
    May 16, 2006

    Anybody got any guesses as to why this guy feels free to say this stuff?

    Are the Dominionists, etc., getting frantic? Or are they so utterly confident they think NOW is the moment to make the final grab for all the power?

    Is this guy tipping his hand out of desperation? Or is he just simply so confident and arrogant he doesn’t give a damn what he lets slip?

    Are we screwed? Or is this a good sign?

  19. #19 Kristjan Wager
    May 16, 2006

    Not only will it work, but one can easily estimate how long it would take. If it took the Germans less than four years to rid themselves of 6 million Jews, many of whom spoke German and were fully integrated into German society, it couldn’t possibly take more than eight years to deport 12 million illegal aliens, many of whom don’t speak English and are not integrated into American society.

    How many ways to attack this paragraph….
    First of all, it didn’t take Germany less than four years – it took them about that amount of time to kill the Jews that they to a large degree already had rounded up. They started getting the Jews thrown out of the German society when they gained power (for example Kristallnacht happened i 1938).

    Second of all, while many of us can make comparisions between current US and then-Germany, I don’t think anyone else but Vox Day have made the implicit statement that the US is a totalitarian regime that have the same complete control of its citizens as Nazi Germany.

    Third of all, land mass. Even occupied countries included, Germany was smaller then than USA is today.

    Anyway all of this doesn’t matter, the fact that he refers to Nazi Germany as an example of how it can be done, should show what kind of person we are dealing with.

    He is no Libertarian. I am a classic Liberal (in the European sense), which shares many traits (though are less extreme) with Libertarians in the US. We are for things like free trade and free movement of people – that’s part of the whole fundament of the ideology.

  20. #20 Buffalo Gal
    May 16, 2006

    PZ – Vox D is a total nutcase who has been soundly ridiculed by World O’ Crap and Sadly No! You should check with those worthy blogs before giving such the time of day.

  21. #21 Doctor Memory
    May 16, 2006

    Please do not encourage Teddy Beale by linking to him. Ideally, pay no attention to him at all. He’s a steroid-addled lunatic with about as much of a constituency as Emperor Norton. Leave him to his hormone injections, sublimated-into-fisticuffs homosexuality and mary-sue fiction: if the `roids and the blows to the head don’t do him in, his daddy’s imminent bankruptcy will certainly rid us of his subsidized bully pulpit.

  22. #22 sockatume
    May 16, 2006

    Wow, these nuts are comparing themselves to the Nazis now. That saves a lot of effort.

    Notice that he subliminally slipped in some holocaust denial: the Jews by implication weren’t killed, they were deported.

  23. #23 Roman Werpachowski
    May 16, 2006

    If it took the Germans less than four years to rid themselves of 6 million Jews, many of whom spoke German and were fully integrated into German society, it couldn’t possibly take more than eight years to deport 12 million illegal aliens, many of whom don’t speak English and are not integrated into American society.

    If the thinks it was peanuts for the Germans to “rid themselves of” 6 million Jews, than he’s wrong. It was a big logistical enterprise, which took a lot of resources.

    I can think of only one positive thing about this idea: it would surely revive US railway transport.

  24. #24 Loren Petrich
    May 16, 2006

    I wonder if Vox Day is trolling, writing inflammatory things in the hope of getting people outraged, and then gloating at how irrational they are.

    Something I’ve wondered about some Holocaust deniers, that they are hoping to get an irrational response so they can snicker about how superior they are.

    And if you wish to see what he says about women, check out
    Why women’s rights are wrong
    Why don’t women have to vote?

    and a discussion of his views called
    Women’s Rights: A Disease That Should Be Eradicated,
    which called him a “libertarian” Christian whose politics are one part authoritarianism, one part religious fascism, and one part sheer nuttiness.

    At least the Nazis were honest enough to say that they considered Jews to be totally evil.

  25. #25 T_U_T
    May 16, 2006

    If it took the Germans less than four years to rid themselves of 6 million Jews, many of whom spoke German and were fully integrated into German society, it couldn’t possibly take more than eight years to deport 12 million illegal aliens

    damn… is this diabolical creature real, or or just one of my nightmares ?

  26. #26 Christopher
    May 16, 2006

    It’s hard to tell if guys like this are real, isn’t it?

    In a way, that in and of itself is a good thing. We’re still far enough away from the Nazis that it’s hard to take them seriously.

    Anyway, while we don’t know if he’s serious, he’s been doing this schtick for a long time (Internet-wise) and what he’s saying here isn’t really any different from what he always says.

    This is normal for Vox Day.

  27. #27 Virge
    May 16, 2006

    It doesn’t matter if VD is for real or deliberately trolling for attention. The fact that WND give him space to express his hatred means you can’t just ignore him and let him drift off into his own delusions.

  28. #28 Grog
    May 16, 2006

    Omigod that man’s writing is awful. Has anyone considered submitting it for a Bulwer-Lytton prize?

    From The War In Heaven excerpt:

    It was cold and the large banks of grey snow piled up beside the sidewalks gave sooty testimony to the harshness of this December’s winter.

    Even L. Ron Hubbard’s writing is better than that!

  29. #29 BlueIndependent
    May 16, 2006

    Figures. Another silver-spooned son of a barron. The hard-right should just come out and admit they think monarchies/dictatorships are cool. Has anyone ever seen a more privileged, insulated, selfish gaggle of gold-lined rabble?

    I do not care to make generalizations often, but stuff like this comes out EVERY SINGLE FREAKING DAY.

  30. #30 Dustin
    May 16, 2006

    It was cold and the large banks of grey snow piled up beside the sidewalks gave sooty testimony to the harshness of this December’s winter.

    Even L. Ron Hubbard’s writing is better than that!

    Yeah, but Mussolini’s isn’t. In fact, that’s just about how he wrote. Come to think of it, Hitler used that same cumbersome, heavily padded and heavy handed style too. It must be the chosen literary style of skinheads and fascist fuckheads everywhere. I think Vox Day’s lame mop says it all… he’s a skinhead, but doesn’t really want to admit it.

  31. #31 tim gueguen
    May 17, 2006

    As have others I find that Typekey, despite the little thingie you click on, isn’t keeping me logged in for 2 weeks like it claims.

    As I’ve said more than once I’m sure what drives much Holocaust denial is the realisation the Holocaust is a major impediment to recruitment. After all just because you hate Jews doesn’t mean you think its a good idea to murder them all. So by pretending the Holocaust didn’t happen, and that people believe it did because of a (Jewish) conspiracy, the deniers hope to sucker in some who might not otherwise join.

  32. #32 gregorach
    May 17, 2006

    Please do not encourage Teddy Beale by linking to him. Ideally, pay no attention to him at all. He’s a steroid-addled lunatic with about as much of a constituency as Emperor Norton.

    I think that’s gravely unfair to the venerable Norton I. He may have been a bit strange, but he wasn’t that much of a lunatic, and I believe he was well-regarded in his time.

  33. #33 Keith Douglas
    May 17, 2006

    Someone noticed that the reason that authoritarians often use obscurantist language is to discourage critical thought. To use their example, Heidegger, the most famous of the Nazi philosophers, mangled the German language beyond recognition in places. (And, of course, there’s a link between Heidegger and George Bush that’s interesting and unfortunate …)

  34. #34 Bronze Dog
    May 17, 2006

    Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy beggar…

    Sorry, couldn’t resist.

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