…and this is a 
Extreme Evangelism?
Category: Religion
Posted on: October 24, 2006 2:34 PM, by PZ Myers
Did anyone else get this spam from "Extreme Evangelism", or am I just special?
What if I told you that you could hold an event for your community and that 90% of the people who attended would be unsaved. What if I then told you that in most communities at least 1000 people would show up. And what if during that event on average 100 people would give their heart to Jesus??? How long does it take your church to get 100 people saved? Think of the church growth possibilities! Its an outdoor event so even churches without large facilities can participate! Now what if I were to tell you that our ministry will come in and partner with you, bringing in the stage, the rides, all the equipment, and the presentation that will bring all those souls into the kingdom! Just this summer we did an outreach where over 6000 people attended and over 600 gave their heart to Jesus! There were so many salvations that the hosting church had to scramble to find ways to counsel all those who made a decisions for Christ!! What a problem to have! If you want to host this event and see more salvations than you can handle please join our group to find out more.
Now I'm really curious. What kind of lies do they tell to get all those "unsaved" to show up? Should I really believe that they could come into my town, that most of the people who would come to see them would be us heathens, and they'd get a 10% conversion rate?
It does seem a little fishy that they'd say 90% of the attendees are unsaved, and then proudly announce that 10% of the attendees "give their heart to Jesus"…maybe their conversion rate is actually 0%.
Comments
methinks the last line is the start:
"If you want to host this event and see more salvations than you can handle please join our group to find out more."
I assume then, this being an e-mail, that one should reply to "join"?
/will
Posted by: misterbowen | October 24, 2006 2:42 PM
Rides? Stage?
>_
Posted by: flame821 | October 24, 2006 2:42 PM
Uh....can I get an amen? What's even more risible to me is the notion that someone having some sort of emotional walk down the aisle to accept Jesus actually translates into church growth. Studies have shown that such experiences on their own are not likely to have any lasting effect on a person's behaviour, and the people who are in the church growth business (such as Rick Warren) are in fact keenly aware of it. P.T. Barnum is alive and well in the pews, it seems....SH
Posted by: Scott Hatfield | October 24, 2006 2:42 PM
Reminds me of some rediculous sermon a friend of mine invited me to go to. They went on about Jesus's book of life and if your name wasn't in it then you'll burn in hell for all eternity (and apparently be enslaved by the antichrist [who is coming soon, so be good little christians!])
Charming stuff.
Posted by: Kphilp | October 24, 2006 3:07 PM
How do they attract the "unsaved"? Free beer and nekkid women would work for me. Of course I still wouldn't be "saved" even after attending, hopeless reprobate that I am.
Posted by: Steve LaBonne | October 24, 2006 3:11 PM
The god factory in this part of the world usually hosts auto shows in its parking lot ("Glasspacks for God", I guess). Because heaven and cars have such a clear link, as Meat Loaf once observed.
Maybe it works; I can't judge. While there have been times in my life when driving and the phrase "Jesus Christ" have been associated with one another, it's never been in a salvational frame of reference.
Posted by: Warren | October 24, 2006 3:17 PM
Of the Free beer and nekkid women events I've been to, I doubt that anyone was being saved. But, boy, those were some good times!
Posted by: PiGuy | October 24, 2006 3:21 PM
Is Jesus in need of a heart donor?
Posted by: Joel Sax | October 24, 2006 3:26 PM
If he is, I'm sure he doesn't need 100 of them.
Posted by: lytefoot | October 24, 2006 3:30 PM
Didn't Jesus say something about how it's a bad bad thing for Christians to run their faith as a business?
Posted by: Stanton | October 24, 2006 3:32 PM
What's the fee for their partnership?
This guy can get you on TV.
"He said Crouch would charge pastors $15,000 to $20,000 a week to produce their shows -- work that consisted of little more than providing access to his parents' network."
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/cl-et-crouch23oct23,1,7903751,full.story?coll=la-headlines-entnews
Posted by: j a higginbotham | October 24, 2006 3:32 PM
"It does seem a little fishy that they'd say 90% of the attendees are unsaved, and then proudly announce that 10% of the attendees 'give their heart to Jesus'...maybe their conversion rate is actually 0%."
You see? This is why Christians are always up in arms to battle science.
Posted by: Joshua | October 24, 2006 3:34 PM
Sincerely,
The Salvations-R-Us Equipment Rental Company
Posted by: George | October 24, 2006 3:34 PM
"There'll be cake."
Posted by: Molly, NYC | October 24, 2006 3:39 PM
Um...
Explain it to me: creationists object to "Darwinism" because it purportedly weeds out the weak in favor of the strong (not understanding that evolutionary advantages depend upon the circumstances of the environment and are not absolutely beneficial or not), and then appeal to a belief that weeds out the "spiritually weak," aka the unsaved. Whenever you ask them why God is so cruel, they just reply (after a lot of hemming and hawing about how they don't wish you to go to hell), "That's just how it is."
I agree that evolution is not a happy, warm, fuzzy story (I don't claim to "like" evolution), but what's the big diff? If it's uncomfortable to confront the vast array of extinctions that make survival possible, why is it more palatable to believe that the majority of humans beings are going or have gone to hell?
Posted by: Kristine | October 24, 2006 3:41 PM
I'm sure you've seen it already (Dennett talks about it in Breaking the Spell), but there's an Oscar winning documentary on the circus that is the evangelical revival meeting called Marjoe. The main subject is a travelling revival leader (pastor?) who doesn't have faith and cynically goes through the motions for money.
It is at once hilarious and frightening.
Posted by: jtdub | October 24, 2006 3:44 PM
Isn't X-treme the obligate spelling?
"Of the Free beer and nekkid women events..."
This isn't far from a strategy used by evangelicals when I was an undergrad. International Churches of Christ, I think. They'd get attractive women to flirt with guys at bus stops or campus dining halls, and invite them back to their dorm rooms at a certain time--you show up, and BAM!!! "Bible study group....." I can't even tell you how ego-crushing that is..."you mean your only in it for my eternal salvation? If I give myself to Jesus, can we do it?"
Posted by: Robert | October 24, 2006 3:46 PM
This line:
" Its an outdoor event so even churches without large facilities can participate! "
gave me a vivid mental image of Jonestown. No thanks...
Posted by: Mena | October 24, 2006 3:49 PM
Monty Python, where are you!
Posted by: George | October 24, 2006 3:50 PM
Actually, it sounds an awful lot like a dominionist/neopentacostal dog-and-pony show event. The whole reference to "90% of the people who attended would be unsaved" fits right in with that kind of ideology. After all, they think that anyone who hasn't literally fallen down and spoken in tongues isn't really a Christian or saved. Odds are they're not targeting the heatherns like us, but their own fellow Christians who will "come to Christ(tm)" by becoming religious zealots just like they are. There are any number of these kinds of events, often aimed at teenagers. Theoconia has an excellent article on these. Note the churches that sponser Ron Luce's little "teen soldiers for Christ" stage show, many of them are at the hard core of dominionism. These people aren't funny, their terrifying. They'd gladly kill us all in the name of their god.
Posted by: Stwriley | October 24, 2006 3:59 PM
"90% of the people who attended would be unsaved...1000 people would show up and what if during that event on average 100 people would give their heart to Jesus"
Anyone who knows this incorrect need not apply.
Posted by: Corey Schlueter | October 24, 2006 4:00 PM
If I give myself to Jesus, can we do it?
"If I said you had a heavenly body would you hold it against me?"
Posted by: Tulse | October 24, 2006 4:05 PM
They'd get attractive women to flirt with guys at bus stops or campus dining halls, and invite them back to their dorm rooms at a certain time--you show up, and BAM!!! "Bible study group. I can't even tell you how ego-crushing that is...
You know what's really ego-crushing? When you've heard rumors of that happening, so you wander around looking spiritually lost, and still nobody flirts with you.
I even tried being proactive and going to one of the ECKANKAR meetings at college, but it was all guys. Same thing happened when I took the Scientology personality test.
(Eventually I managed to get a girlfriend via secular methods, and after that other people started flirting with me. Grrrr. What an inefficient system!)
Posted by: chaos_engineer | October 24, 2006 4:06 PM
Could've sworn it said 'unslaved.'
Posted by: Hal | October 24, 2006 4:10 PM
When I was in Campus Crusade in college, they would go around giving a survey as a foot in the door to talk to people about Jesus.
When I asked who tabulated the survey data and what was done with it they replied that they just threw the data away. When I pointed out that this was talking to people on false pretenses, I just got blank stares. Our leader even just used one form all the time to save money.
Posted by: KeithB | October 24, 2006 4:15 PM
I resent this implication! I save every morning before work. I would never appear in public 'unsaved.'
Oh.
Saved from what again?
Posted by: Keith | October 24, 2006 4:24 PM
You know what's really ego-crushing? When you've heard rumors of that happening, so you wander around looking spiritually lost, and still nobody flirts with you.
Okay, think you got it bad? What do women get? Joel Ornstein, Rick Warren, Ted Haggard (did he flatten his face in a slammed door?), and Dr. Philled-With-Myself. (Can someone please spread the word that a moustache is not a comb-over?) Crap, if someone puts a moldy potato on television it will get women to jump up and down in the aisles. Women! Summon up some pride, willya?
Posted by: Kristine | October 24, 2006 4:25 PM
Carnival of Souls?
Posted by: rrt | October 24, 2006 4:30 PM
That's right. Give your heart to your God.
Thousands of Aztecs can't be wrong.
Posted by: llewelly | October 24, 2006 4:40 PM
It sounds a whole lot like the Luis Palau thing which was in Minnesota a couple of years ago. A lot of XTreme sports stuff, some bands, and all at the State Capitol with sponsorship and adoring articles (and a couple of full-color supplements) from the local paper (Star Tribune).
What the paper didn't mention was Palau's condemnation of his own nephew who happens to be gay - tough, you're going to hell. At least the Star Tribune printed my letter, but they still tried to insist that they were balanced in their coverage.
Posted by: Andrew Mogendorff | October 24, 2006 5:23 PM
It does seem a little fishy that they'd say 90% of the attendees are unsaved, and then proudly announce that 10% of the attendees "give their heart to Jesus"...maybe their conversion rate is actually 0%.
It starts making more sense when you consider the fact that the "attendees" are mostly children.
Posted by: 386sx | October 24, 2006 5:32 PM
10% "give their heart to Jesus?" I'll bet that's as good a ratio of donors as ol' Quetzalcoatl ever got!
Posted by: Coragyps | October 24, 2006 5:47 PM
Guys,guys, come on! Don't you know that you only give your heart to Jesus one time? (Then, he puts it in a blender and serves it back to you as a milkshake.) This solves the "supposed problem" of them "looking like charlatans" by possibly "manipulating the numbers" to look like people "actually" get "saved"...if you only knew Math for Jesus -- double salvations are not allowed.
PS: PZ, can you please give us the email? I'd seriously like to know what their "plan" is.
Posted by: Daniel Morgan | October 24, 2006 6:04 PM
A beer volcano and a stripper factory?
Sounds like the Last Spaghetti Supper.
(Ramen)
Posted by: Doc Bill | October 24, 2006 6:09 PM
Only 10% conversion? Hmpf! Reminds me of a story my dad used to tell. He and his two brothers grew up in a teeny tiny town that, unfortunately, kind of lacked for excitement. Sometimes literally the most interesting way for three bored young teenage boys to spend a Saturday night was to attend whatever local revival meeting had pitched its tent.
As the meeting dragged on into the night, and got increasingly fervent, my dad said that the preacher would frequently take the tack of refusing to let people leave the meeting until they "came to Jesus." Depending on how late the hour, that was often the cue for my dad and his brothers to come up and be "saved," so they could take off in search of other entertainment. If there's a heaven, my dad's definitely going, as he's been born again more times than any other person I know.
Posted by: Pamela Green | October 24, 2006 6:17 PM
If you masochists insist...I'll pass along the urls. I'm not giving out the one encoded in the message, though, because I think it is keyed to my email address, and I don't want someone using it to sign me up for some huckster to show up at my door and set up a tent in my lawn.
You can subscribe by email at extremeevangelism-subscribe@MyInJesus.com.
There is a website at http://www.injesus.com/index.php?module=mygroups. I haven't seen it, because it crashes Safari instantly.
Don't tell 'em I sent you.
Posted by: PZ Myers | October 24, 2006 6:32 PM
Maybe you could host an event an then when the throngs show up, you could read choice bits from dawkins new book instead of the Bible. Us their machinery against them.
Posted by: Keith | October 24, 2006 6:42 PM
PZ, run a software update. The site is messed up, but it doesn't crash the newer Safari. (disclaimer: the results here may only apply to the Intel chipset, I have yet to try it on the G4, and frankly I don't care enough to try it.
Mike
Posted by: Mike | October 24, 2006 6:55 PM
I do have the most up-to-date software, but I am running it on a G4 laptop. I don't think I want to upgrade my hardware just to see that site.
Oh, wait. On second thought...I should talk to my wife. "Honey, I need to buy a new laptop so I can visit My InJesus.com!"
Best case, I get a new computer. Worst (and most likely) case, she has me committed.
Posted by: PZ Myers | October 24, 2006 7:01 PM
Hmmm... That's a tough one. New compy to see the site, complete with iSight built in and all the speed, or having to view that site...
I'm afraid you'll have to stick with the G4, for your own sanity. At least you can use classic. I have to fire up the old computer to use PAUP (transferring files and all that). When will there be a new version?!!!
Posted by: Mike | October 24, 2006 7:20 PM
This actually happened to me when I was a freshman at the University of Maryland. A girl in my English class started chatting with me after class a couple of times, then suggested I come by her dorm suite one Saturday night when she and her roommates were having a party. Being 18, I could only imagine what kinds of debauchery were going to take place. Little wonder my consternation when the "party" turned out to about a dozen people sitting around drinking lemonade and justifying 2 Kings 2:23-24. I stayed out of curiosity, and because I like lemonade, but told the girl I wouldn't be coming to the next party.
Posted by: chris | October 24, 2006 7:26 PM
That injesus site just has to be a parody... doesn't it? Oh.
Here's the opening paragraph of the top article on the site (no edits, I swear):
So... god speaks audibly (and out loud as well, apparently), but by a gigantic coincidence the only person who hears it is the one in recovery from substance abuse. Praise the lord! It's a miracle!
Posted by: Millimeter Wave | October 24, 2006 7:55 PM
The women were all down the hall at the est seminar.
Posted by: idlemind![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/nav-commenters.gif)
|
October 24, 2006 8:26 PM
Praise the InJesus!
Preacher David Herzog says: "Right now God is ... restoring all that has been lost since the early church and the book of Acts, and He is also doing new things, never before recorded. Unheard of miracles, such as instant weight loss, gold fillings and crowns, money supernaturally appearing and golden rain, are all being experienced as the culmination of all that God has prepared for His people in this generation."
http://www.injesus.com/index.php?module=classifieds&task=view&CID=29
Goodbye atheism! With God, you get free dental care, instant weight loss, and lots o' monaaaaay!
What do you get with atheism? Richard Dawkins...
Nooooo contest!
Posted by: George | October 24, 2006 8:39 PM
Unheard of miracles, such as instant weight loss, gold fillings and crowns, money supernaturally appearing and golden rain,
ask R Kelly about the "golden rain".
Posted by: Ichthyic | October 24, 2006 8:56 PM
Ha. I was tricked into going to one of these in high school by a friend. She billed it as a concert with games and stuff. All was fun and fine until the 'concert' started. What nonsense.
Posted by: Tanya | October 24, 2006 10:51 PM
Nobody ever invited me to a Bible study more than once, but I used to make a point of going to every one I got invited to. When they'd bitch about me "having the wrong attitude", I'd just tell them they ought to be more selective about who they invited as my parting shot. I mean really, what sort of idjits invite total strangers to their house just because they live in the same apartment complex?
Just accept before you arrive that you aren't going to get laid. Makes it more enjoyable.
Posted by: MarkP | October 24, 2006 11:12 PM
"Give your heart to Jesus! Thousands of Aztecs can't be wrong!"
Fantastic! Should be a bumper sticker.
(...is it?)
Posted by: Rowan | October 24, 2006 11:23 PM
jebus. thank the almighty spaghetti monster and her heavenly right hand cephalopod, for
pz myers and the laughing out loud site. otherwise, one would have to get out the
duct tape and plastic and........what did you say about those microbes?
Posted by: jeaniemarie | October 25, 2006 1:36 AM
First time posting here (been reading for a while), but this seems particularly relevant:
http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=2215
Posted by: wjv | October 25, 2006 3:13 AM
I remember that Luis Palau thing. The Strib also did a lot of gushing when Billy Graham made his last appearance in Minneapolis, too. How did he pull that off? When you think about it, it was pretty impressive; months of carefully orchestrated hype, and government money to do it. Seriously, you've got to admire the balls they had to pull it off.
So, how do secular humanists get in on this action? Surely, we can do some rad-gnarly--Xtreme(tm) sort of teen outreach. Sure it's stupid, but why should religious nuts get to have climbing walls? We've certainly got way better secular music and better skateboarders on our side(not to mention much hotter secular women), so why not?
Posted by: j.t.delaney | October 25, 2006 4:42 AM
Sounds like an Amway pitch - apparently MLM marketing has made its way into the world of evangelism.
Posted by: Grog | October 25, 2006 9:05 AM
Pah. I could organize a rally for traditional boat owners and 100% of them would be unshaved.
Posted by: Peter McGrath | October 25, 2006 9:21 AM
The Strib also did a lot of gushing when Billy Graham made his last appearance in Minneapolis, too. How did he pull that off?
Considering that the Strib has not been publishing the meetings of MN Atheists despite the fact that August is always submitting things way before deadline, I don't think it's a big mystery. The Strib favors believers and is pretty much an entertainment rag in my opinion (I wish we didn't subscribe, but my sig. oth. likes to get it).
However, I am certainly not opposed to climbing walls, or concerts, or dances, hell, sounds like fun.
I had a dream about a month ago about meeting atheist bloggers and various Pharyngulites at a fancy dress ball, lots of alcohol and dancing, although all I remember is the name tags.
Posted by: Kristine | October 25, 2006 11:32 AM
"Unheard of miracles, such as instant weight loss, gold fillings and crowns, money supernaturally appearing and golden rain.."
Let's look at that again:
"and golden rain.."
The Lord is into Golden Showers...classic.
Posted by: Sean | October 25, 2006 4:04 PM
That mail looks even less useful than the eBay phish I got this morning ...
George: The gold stuff sounds vaguely like what I hear happens with the "godmen" in India. Curious.
Posted by: Keith Douglas | October 26, 2006 12:36 PM