…and this is a 
Debbie Schlussel might become a Muslim terrorist any day now
Category: Godlessness
Posted on: February 8, 2007 10:54 AM, by PZ Myers
Really, I don't read Debbie Schlussel's blog—a reader sent me a link, so I put on the waders and gas mask and climbed down into the sewer. I'm now completely baffled; why is this insane and deeply stupid person ever put on television? Her response to the CNN complaints is illustrative, and even if you sympathize with her, you've got to recognized the big picture here: she's not very bright.
Something happened over the last 24 hours. Beginning last night, my inbox became populated with vile hate-mail from atheists. No skin off my back.
But it is entertaining and amusing. It's hard to believe their letters because they were all attacking me for my appearance on CNN's "Paula Zahn Now," a week ago, but coincidentally each letter claims the sender just watched me on CNN. First of all, the video of that segment appears nowhere on the net. Believe me, if it did, I'd link to it. Secondly, since I appeared on the show a week ago, that all these "seminar" e-mailers are now all e-mailing me the same basic hate message, populated with a diversity of obscene insults, it's easier to believe that they were easily brainwashed into sending me the missives as a result of an atheist blog that just put up an attack on me, yesterday.
Uh, that atheist blog? That was me. Digg picked up on it and it spread far and wide. She's wrong about the tone, though: it was an attack on CNN. All I did with Debbie Schlussel was ask she would feel if Jews were the target of the panel rather than atheists.
Now this post? This is an attack on Debbie Schlussel.
We can start with her research skills. That video is all over the web. I linked to it, it's on youtube, Richard Dawkins put it up, it's darned easy to find. Her excuse is that she searched for "Debbie Schlussel", and nobody had tagged it with her name. Vanity is no excuse, Ms Schlussel. You can't simultaneously claim that everyone's criticisms were about attacking you, yet nobody bothered to tag their complaints about CNN's bias with your name.
(Note to self: be sure to put Debbie Schlussel's name in the title of this post.)
Now let's take a look at her logic. After claiming that some atheist blog sicced all these wicked godless people on her, she uses that as an argument against atheism.
I'm surprised these atheists would be so obedient to a higher power that told them to e-mail me since, after all, the one thing they're supposed to have in common is a lack of belief in a higher power. Well, no-one ever said atheists are consistent or immune from hypocrisy.
I'm flattered, really I am. No one has ever called me a "higher power" before. It's a little worrisome, though; you see, if "atheist blogger" is synonymized with "higher power", and atheists don't believe in higher powers, then I'm just going to have to say "Oh, dear…" and poof out of existence. Alternatively, if this higher power exists as the theists assert, then it also implies that God has an atheist blog. Someone please send me the URL, I'd really like to read it.
But wait, it gets even loonier and more paranoid.
I don't mind receiving the atheist hate mail, since I know that in a few years, many of these same people will either be Muslim extremists (redundant) or helping the country fall further in its fight against the creep of Islamic imposition on America . . . or both.
Debbie Schlussel doesn't mind that there are hordes of atheist fifth columnists lurking in her country, waiting a few years to jump up, shout "ALLAH AKBAR!" and pull the detonation cord on their explosive vests? Why, Debbie, why? Why do you hate America? You should be very upset! If I believed that, I would be!
Look at famous atheists and what happened to them.
Yes, lets. Famous atheists…hmmm. Who do we think of? Off the top of my head, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Julia Sweeney, Daniel Dennett, Madalyn Murray O'Hair, Robert Ingersoll, Samuel Clemens, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Penn Jillette, Bertrand Russell…it's a long list. Who will Debbie Schlussel pick out as examples of our luckless and unpleasant fate?
Adam Gadahn a/k/a Azzam Al-Amriki
Who?
--now a top Al-Qaeda video "personality"--was raised by his hippie Jewish father and equally bizarre gentile mother as an atheist. And look how he turned out. Ditto for hippie-spawn John Walker Lindh.
Oh. So when Ms Schlussel furrows her brow and tries to name a famous atheist, the best she can do is name a couple of obscure Muslim fanatics who believe fervently in Allah? She needs to get out more.
I think we can also see from my list of famous atheists that sudden conversion to Islam doesn't seem to be a frequent occurrence. I don't think ex-hippies tend to turn into Muslims, either, although I could be convinced otherwise if anyone has any data. The one example she mentions, Gadahn, is half-Jewish; are they dangerous? Should we perhaps put Schlussel under house arrest and watch her closely in case she suddenly puts on a burka? I think she shows signs of some kind of imminent hysterical eruption.
Oh, and Lindh was at least nominally Catholic before his conversion. Clearly, we need to impound all the Catholics and Jews and children of hippies immediately—I hope there's room in Gitmo for them all.
I was brought up Protestant in a working class family, with parents who liked country-western music and Elvis. I'm safe.
Comments
Oh, oh. I was raised Catholic. I suppose my conversion to terrorism is imminent!
At least I'm not as Catholic as Pelosi or Alan Keyes. I hear those people are dangerous.
Posted by: Zeno | February 8, 2007 11:04 AM
you *really* need to email Karen Hunter and check out her imbecile replies. AFAIK she doesn't have a blog, but she answers all emails!
khuntercolumn@aol.com
How either of these women got where they are is beyond me.
BUT, Dawkins on Zahn tonight??? Could that be in response to the letters they got about the atheist segment?
Posted by: TR | February 8, 2007 11:05 AM
Aaaaagh.
The robot people have an old saying, "DOES NOT COMPUTE."
Posted by: Blake Stacey | February 8, 2007 11:12 AM
So, she's saying that atheists are actually self-hating Jews who ultimately mutate into redundant Muslim extremists?
...
I'm not sure if she's a schmuck, or a schlmeil.
Maybe a schlmozel.
Posted by: Stanton | February 8, 2007 11:12 AM
Blake, no doubt Ms Schlussel thinks that robots are just garbage disposals with sparks coming out of them, too.
Posted by: Stanton | February 8, 2007 11:14 AM
Haha, the bottom section of that post had me laughing out loud. She really is a twit isn't she?
Posted by: Uber | February 8, 2007 11:14 AM
...she's suprisingly a member of MENSA apparently. But I've guess we've all met people who are academically able but socially retarded.
Posted by: Mike | February 8, 2007 11:15 AM
...she's suprisingly a member of MENSA apparently. But I've guess we've all met people who are academically able but socially retarded.
Posted by: Mike | February 8, 2007 11:15 AM
Of course, I'm too stupid to click the mouse only once.
Posted by: Mike | February 8, 2007 11:16 AM
Last I heard Angelina Jolie was still an atheist, so who the hell needs a Debbie Schussel?
Posted by: J-Dog | February 8, 2007 11:17 AM
She's so very shrill. Why does the hate america so much?
I guess if you're not christian you're automatically a muslim terrorist...
Unless you're a jew and then, ummm. Yeah I can't follow it.
Posted by: Steve_C | February 8, 2007 11:19 AM
Actually, I'd like to ask that to quite a few demagogues. After all, on 11 September 2001, the World Trade Center was destroyed by theistic creationists who hated the very idea of evolution. Every time you teach "Intelligent Design", you help the terrorists win. Ann Coulter, why do you hate America?
(Yes, it's silly. But if I were ever on TV. . . .)
Posted by: Blake Stacey | February 8, 2007 11:20 AM
It might be worth noting that Salman Rushdie was reared in a Muslim home and is now an outspoken atheist. Does this single example of a "famous atheist" then imply that Muslims are likely to become atheists?
For the record, I'm about as committed an atheist as one is likely to find, and while I consider all supernatural beliefs mistaken, I don't consider them all equally dangerous. Islamists probably ARE the most immediate threat to America. The idea that I as an atheist might be attracted to an ideology that is both mistaken AND genocidal is the lowest form of bigotry.
Posted by: Greg Peterson | February 8, 2007 11:24 AM
Wow. The comments there are interesting...a quick scan of the top several seems to be criticism of Debbie, with a strange comment from her repeating her claim that because the video wasn't tagged with her name, she couldn't be expected to find it.
I'd like to see her respond to the basic "replace 'Atheists' with 'Jews'" challenge, myself.
Posted by: rrt | February 8, 2007 11:25 AM
Hey, she might be on to something. From Fundies Say the Darndest Things:
Posted by: argystokes | February 8, 2007 11:26 AM
The waves of stupidity and bigotry are making it hard to comment. They're pushing me away from the keyboard.
Posted by: Bronze Dog | February 8, 2007 11:27 AM
Actually, PZ, you might want to check up on the fate of O'Hair and son (robbed, killed, and buried by some fellow atheists). Not the best counter-example to Schlussel's bizarre rantings.
But that's about as meaningful as the Lindh "example", of course.
Anyhow, Schlussel, I didn't do a damned thing that PZ suggested. Does that make me a true atheist, a theist, a deist, a secularist, a free-thinker, a right-winger, a left-winger, a moderate, or apathetic? Come on, I need to know, as you are capable of such grand insights into the complexities of the soul by your observance of the simplest actions. My God, you might even be a medium of some kind, though you ought to be careful about such an identity as you try to make America into a theocracy.
And "higher power" or no, I do actually believe in PZ Myers. It's kind of one of those empirical matters, you know, related writings, photos, eyewitness claims, just the sort of thing us evil atheists worship and adore. You'll want to be tried in our courts (you know, as a medium), I suspect, however little you like us, for we continue to insist upon actual evidence, while your allies are trying to force things into science without the taint of "material" witness--material evidence.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/b8ykm
Posted by: Glen Davidson | February 8, 2007 11:34 AM
"I believe in America. I believe it exists."
Posted by: Blake Stacey | February 8, 2007 11:36 AM
...she's suprisingly a member of MENSA apparently...
Ouch. Not gonna be good for Mensa's image, is it?
It's interesting, tho'. Apparently, some marginal voices are more marginal than others, aren't they?
I mean, let's see: You're stark raving looney, and roughly as capable of putting together a rational set of conclusions from your premises as is a clump of drier lint, but you are a conservative and Christian? Sure, we'd love to give you a few minutes on our national cable news channel...
An atheist? Erm... sorry... it's not particularly material that the segment is actually on atheists, nor is it particularly significant whether you are or are not actually (i) sane and (ii) articulate... oddly, it just didn't occur to us to call. Our bad.
Posted by: AJ Milne | February 8, 2007 11:36 AM
(It's spelled "Jillette." He may be an atheist, but he's also a paid-up member of the Church of the SubGenius.)
Posted by: just john | February 8, 2007 11:41 AM
Note to self: Don't ever, EVER, piss off PZ Myers!
Posted by: Minnesotachuck | February 8, 2007 11:42 AM
I think CNN's "Are atheists scum?" story was really just a cover: the main point was to make Paula Zahn look half intelligent by bringing in three complete morons to yap about how they love the lordie.
Posted by: Grax | February 8, 2007 11:45 AM
My apologies to any MENSA members, but my old advisor used to refer to MENSA as a feel-good club for underachievers. "Hey look, I may have only done xxxx with my life, but look at my IQ!!"
Posted by: rjb | February 8, 2007 11:50 AM
"Look at famous atheists and see what happened to them"
Just a guess... they all get old and eventually die, just like the rest of humanity?
Posted by: atlasien | February 8, 2007 11:51 AM
Of course, I emailed CNN, not because anyone told me to, but because I can't let vile, depraved stupidity go unanswered.
Posted by: Bronze Dog | February 8, 2007 11:53 AM
"Actually, PZ, you might want to check up on the fate of O'Hair and son (robbed, killed, and buried by some fellow atheists). "
There is no evidence that the killers were atheists at all. In fact considering the known prison makeup and profiles of those prone to criminal behavior they were very likely fundie Chrisitans. They were just hired people. Unlike the Jesus Crispies Atheists do not consider religion or lack of religion to be a job qualification.
Posted by: idioteraser | February 8, 2007 11:55 AM
PZ is my higher power and if I ever go back to AA I will appeal to him. Or Him.
Posted by: Mike Haubrich | February 8, 2007 11:55 AM
PZ, here's my all-time favorite idiotic quote from Schlussel (though that "sect of Muslims" quote is now on my list ;-) ). In response to a NY Times article about a study out of Japan concerning the different types of ear wax found in different peoples (Asians have "dry" ear wax while Europeans and Africans have "wet" ear wax).
She says that the article failed to mention that it was also shown that "Native" Americans (her quotes) have wet ear wax, showing that they are genetically similar to Asians, ergo proof that they came over the Bering Strait. So far, nothing too idiotic, but then she writes:
"So whom did THEY steal the land from? Somebody else, obviously. Yet, no "Dances With Wolves" and "Into the West" from Hollywood about that."
Uh, what?!
After receiving plenty of comments pointing out how stupid she is, she just makes it worse:
"To all the liberal idiots who've left dumb, insulting comments on this entry (and if you insult me, your comments will be deleted), as directed by similarly intellectually-challenged lefty websites, I'm well aware Indians came here over the Bering Strait, which you'd realize if you actually bothered to read what I wrote below in this entry. I simply quoted the NYTimes that this was yet more proof. Yet, there is no proof they were the first here. And even if they were, this is yet more proof that they originated in ASIA. Hello? . . . This is yet more evidence that we did NOT steal THEIR land. It means it was not THEIRS to begin with."
Posted by: Andrew | February 8, 2007 11:56 AM
I don't believe in a higher power, but I do believe in mild-mannered biology professors.
Posted by: Lettuce | February 8, 2007 12:00 PM
By now I recognize this as a common tactic: Throw out insane slanders on a marginalized group, then when the less cool heads among them respond with predictable and somewhat understandable outrage and insults, cherry-pick their comments and use them as representative of the whole.
Let's just hope Debs isn't web-savvy enough (and if the whole "keyword" thing isn't indicative enough of that, then the all-caps thing should be) to link back to "that evil blog" and release the harpies...
Posted by: Rey Fox | February 8, 2007 12:02 PM
I've linked to this in my own response here:
http://atheism.about.com/b/a/258737.htm
Since you asked, PZ, here is a link to God's atheist blog:
http://www.blogofthegods.com/
After linking to God, He assured me that I would not face eternal hellfire. If you're smart, you'll hedge your bets and link to him as well. It's not worth the risk of not linking, right?
Posted by: Austin Cline | February 8, 2007 12:05 PM
I contemplated joining Mensa when I was, oh, about ten or eleven. Mostly, I wanted a place where my friends and I could go and play our higher-dimensional generalizations of Monopoly with other people. Life intervened, however, and I never bothered to take the test; eventually, I read Isaac Asimov's description of his time in Mensa and realized that it just wasn't the subculture for me. I kept wowing people with my stupendous intellect right the way through high school, but I also took every opportunity I could to point my classmates to places where they could learn things for themselves, on the hypothesis that I had really had a fantastic series of lucky breaks. Thanks to happy accidents and some parental good judgment, I had found a whole farrago of good books and TV documentaries.
In middle and high school, I was constantly being surprised at how poorly we were being taught, compared to how able we were to learn. There's more intellect in that teenage wasteland than we were given credit for, though I'm sure a lamentable amount of brainpower decays through lack of stimulation.
Sigh.
At any rate, my essentially populist beliefs about science and education probably disqualify me from any high-IQ societies, either Mensa or those beyond (the domain of Christopher Michael Langan and his ilk).
Posted by: Blake Stacey | February 8, 2007 12:05 PM
Actually, I am with Debbie. What do you atheists want? If you really feel you are such an important part of America, why don't you all pick a sharpie pen and start writing the word DELUSION above "IN GOD WE TRUST" on all the American currency and then we'll if you deserve to be included in TV discussions!
.... ;)
Posted by: Hans | February 8, 2007 12:06 PM
The only thing this idiot got right was that PZ was god. Otherwise, she's totally off her rocker.
Posted by: JD Kolassa | February 8, 2007 12:12 PM
There is no evidence that the killers were atheists at all. In fact considering the known prison makeup and profiles of those prone to criminal behavior they were very likely fundie Chrisitans. They were just hired people. Unlike the Jesus Crispies Atheists do not consider religion or lack of religion to be a job qualification.
I particularly doubt that Waters worked for the organization without being an atheist. And all three were reported to be atheists, at least:
But pinning all the blame on the APD may be too easy. The O'Hairs' fellow atheists also deserve some blame. Right after the three atheists disappeared, Ellen Johnson, the new head of American Atheists, assured reporters that nothing was amiss. "Madalyn is just fine," she said. "This has nothing to do with her health." bolding added
Could be wrong? Sure, but it's the evidence we have.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/b8ykm
http://weeklywire.com/ww/06-07-99/austin_pols_feature1.html
Posted by: Glen Davidson | February 8, 2007 12:18 PM
Should have made that last post differently:
There is no evidence that the killers were atheists at all. In fact considering the known prison makeup and profiles of those prone to criminal behavior they were very likely fundie Chrisitans. They were just hired people. Unlike the Jesus Crispies Atheists do not consider religion or lack of religion to be a job qualification.
I particularly doubt that Waters worked for the organization without being an atheist. And all three were reported to be atheists, at least:
But pinning all the blame on the APD may be too easy. The O'Hairs' fellow atheists also deserve some blame. Right after the three atheists disappeared, Ellen Johnson, the new head of American Atheists, assured reporters that nothing was amiss. "Madalyn is just fine," she said. "This has nothing to do with her health." bolding added
http://weeklywire.com/ww/06-07-99/austin_pols_feature1.html
Could be wrong? Sure, but it's the evidence we have.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/b8ykm
Posted by: Glen Davidson | February 8, 2007 12:20 PM
And the part of this post that will be quoted is.....
/
Clearly, we need to impound all the Catholics and Jews and children of hippies immediately
/
Posted by: Markus Karlsson | February 8, 2007 12:24 PM
Does she get up in the morning and say to herself: who am I going to con today?
I don't understand these types - the Wellses and the Schlussels and the Boones. Is it just stupidity? Years of self-deception? Brainwashing? What makes them the way they are? Partly, it's seems to be just plain stubbornness. Refusal to back down from a position, no matter how wrong. Partly, an unwillingness to renounce beliefs that have to be sustained if one is to earn one's paycheck.
Why do some people wake up, eventually, and face the fact that they were deluding themselves about God or psychic powers or the evils of evolution? Why, why, why?
If she is in any way representative of the general mental condition of the American populace, we are in deep, deep trouble.
Posted by: George | February 8, 2007 12:25 PM
It's going to be painful if her fans troll over here to defend her.
They won't be the sharpest knives in the drawer.
Posted by: Steve_C | February 8, 2007 12:25 PM
So does Ms. Schlussel consider the Christian fanatics that bomb abortion clinics to be extremist wackjobs? Or is it only Muslim wackjobs she has a problem with. hmmmmm
Posted by: Tanya | February 8, 2007 12:30 PM
I'm pretty sure Adam Gadahn was raised Christian, or at least his family was Christian (his father converted, which Schlussel, being ostensibly Jewish herself, should realize makes him no longer a Jew by Jewish custom). I just read a New Yorker profile on him, but don't recall anything about him being an atheist. Personally, I think she's making stuff up as she goes along.
Funny, though, when you think about how much Christians love to share stories of atheists who converted to Christianity.
Posted by: Mark Borok | February 8, 2007 12:36 PM
Strange, I looked up Gadahn at answers.com - nary a whisper of the word 'atheism'.
I tried to read comments at her alleged blog - but damn thing seems to extend out past the farthest right-hand margin.
I'd have to call that 'unintelligent design', hehehehe.
Posted by: Krystalline Apostate | February 8, 2007 12:46 PM
Glen, the "three atheists" are the O'Hairs.
Posted by: Aureola Nominee, FCD | February 8, 2007 12:48 PM
Does anyone else have a problem with the formatting on Schlussel's blog? Each paragraph is a single line, some about 6 times as wide as my monitor. Either she can't even figure out how to format her blog, or else it's Bill Gates' fault. I'm using Firefox on Linux.
Posted by: quork | February 8, 2007 12:50 PM
(I note the spelling correction.)
I liked it when House MD called Andre the Giant his higher power.
Posted by: just john | February 8, 2007 12:51 PM
Unfortunately, I followed the link to Debbie's blog.
This is a deeply stupid and hate-filled woman.
Scary.
Posted by: waldteufel | February 8, 2007 12:53 PM
Dull knives don't concern me terribly much. I mean, most of the ones in the Dilbonian Hate Mail thread would have had serious difficulty with melted butter. And, if I need help keeping my temper even and refraining from arguing where there's no point, there's always Daniel Martin's killfile script (requires Firefox and Greasemonkey).
Posted by: Blake Stacey | February 8, 2007 12:58 PM
So now that she kindly informed me that all atheists will turn into Muslim extremists I should stop saying to crazy fundies (redundant) that I'll solve everything by placing some candles for satan, hehehe. Now I'll have to find a Mosque to light candle in ;)
Posted by: Tinni | February 8, 2007 12:59 PM
Much as it may startle you, it appears debbie got Adam Gadhan's story WRONG, at least according to the eratically reliable Wikipedia. Considering Debbie versus Wiki, I'll trust Wiki more.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Gadahn
So apparently he wasn't raised as an atheist anyway. So not only is her theory of atheists becoming Muslim fanatics crap, her evidence is crap.
Posted by: DragonScholar | February 8, 2007 1:01 PM
Pleasantly, this particular Wikipedia article has footnotes. (Does Britannica?) Adam Yahiye Gadahn himself wrote the following, in a 1995 essay entitled "Becoming Muslim":
Wikipedia also gets some biographical information from The New Yorker, specifically Raffi Khatchadourian's "Azzam the American" (15 January 2007).
Posted by: Blake Stacey | February 8, 2007 1:15 PM
I thought the Killfile was only good for blocking one person at a time. Not effective on a horde of rabid chihuahuas that will skim PZ's post, ignore the comments, screech "persecution" at us, possibly throw in a Gish gallop, and then leave forever, their rage sated, their fears stoked, and their preconceptions unscathed.
Posted by: Rey Fox | February 8, 2007 1:16 PM
Posted by: quork | February 8, 2007 1:18 PM
&%$#@ typekey. Oh, forget it.
If we combine Debbi with one of these lighter elements, will we get a solid, liquid, or a gas?
I vote gas.
Posted by: Kristine | February 8, 2007 1:26 PM
Well, no American atheists have the visibility of Dawkins
That reminds me- Bill Maher's show will be back next week won't it? What about him? He may be out promoting that and could kill two birds with one stone here.
Posted by: Mena | February 8, 2007 1:27 PM
If Debbie Schlussel is the go-to-girl for religious discussions on TV, then the religious have bigger problems than us meanie atheists and our blog posts. This is the same woman who seriously asked if terrorists really could sneak snakes on a plane:
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2006/07/snakes_on_a_pla_2.html
Posted by: jiggavegas | February 8, 2007 1:30 PM
Glen, the "three atheists" are the O'Hairs.
Oops, quite so. I forgot that there were three victims as well as something like three perpetrators. Thanks.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/b8ykm
Posted by: Glen Davidson | February 8, 2007 1:33 PM
If they leave forever, then there's no way we can scathe their preconceptions. I might as well save my eyes the trouble of seeing those comments as I browse the threads for reasonable and interesting things. (Pessimistic, perhaps, but I'll go with it.)
Posted by: Blake Stacey | February 8, 2007 1:35 PM
Hey, PZ...
Just read the post...
Poetic, PZ...simply poetic...
That Who? comment really cracked me up...
Posted by: Bob | February 8, 2007 1:37 PM
As scary as it is, it's important to know what these wack-jobs are saying.
I've been thinking about who will be the first people "disappeared" when fascism comes to America.
Muslims, obviously. Other immigrant groups, probably. Intellectuals, always. Atheists? Debbie is making the case.
Posted by: Sonja | February 8, 2007 1:40 PM
I think we'll get a supercritical fluid because it would be able to diffuse through "solid evidence" like a gas and at the same time tries to dissolve critical thought like a liquid.
Posted by: Tinni | February 8, 2007 1:41 PM
"I might as well save my eyes the trouble of seeing those comments "
That's sort of my point though. You can't filter by content of posts or level of insanity. Unless someone tells me different, I'm pretty sure you can only filter by username. So you'd have to see those posts before blocking them, and once you did, it would be a pointless gesture, since 9 times out of 10 that particular username would never post again.
Posted by: Rey Fox | February 8, 2007 1:47 PM
Fear can make intelligent people stupid. It would seem that Deb is so afraid of Muslim violence against Jews that she's fallen for the lie that Christian republicans are the only reliable ally against Islamic terrorism, while atheist liberals only want to undermine good christian values and let western society fall to the wolves.
[sigh] I guess she's never heard Dawkins criticize the religious nature of the 9-11 attacks.
Posted by: H. Humbert | February 8, 2007 1:53 PM
Rey Fox:
You make an entirely valid point (and don't think I haven't considered finding a better way to filter comments). I just like sparing myself the irritation of seeing hateful nonsense more than once — and I can always hit kill at the first disagreeable word. Avoiding the recurrent trolls is also a pleasant prospect: even if only a few visitors make a lot of remarks, that's still a lot of remarks.
So, in the interest of pushing PZ up the Most Active list, let's brainstorm about better ways to do the troll-killing job. What's a better way to sort and filter comments, and for that matter, what improvements should we demand from the Seed tech people? Hey, I actually get paid (at least in part) to study online discourse, so believe me, I'll be interested.
Posted by: Blake Stacey | February 8, 2007 1:54 PM
Look at famous atheists and what happened to them. Adam Gadahn a/k/a Azzam Al-Amriki . . .
Doesn't "famous" mean someone's heard of this guy?
Posted by: Molly, NYC | February 8, 2007 2:05 PM
"Hey, I actually get paid (at least in part) to study online discourse, so believe me, I'll be interested."
You ought to call Mike Rowe, get on TV. ;)
Posted by: Rey Fox | February 8, 2007 2:15 PM
I really do not think Debbie Schlussel is serious.
The beliefs she claims to have are too much of a Caricature of a right-wing nutbag. She does not say things in a hopes to make herself appear to be on a moral high-ground, even when she claims she is. Let me explain...
For example, when you see most religious nuts defend their position, they either say it with anger, which they think represents the righteousness of God, or they say it calm, like someone representing a loving God. Deb simply does not do so, and claims she is right while smirking the whole of the time.
On political issues it is much the same. Most people who have extreme views try and temper them to make them appear more reasonable, yet Deb does nothing of the kind. When choosing between 3 views, she simply chooses the one most in-line with what she thinks the deeply stupid right-wing majority would like to hear, without pussy footing around the fact that they themselves are not educated enough to articulate a case for this position without making themselves look like the Hills people from Deliverance.
In the end, I think this is just a business for her, and she does not really give a damn about the issues she discusses.
Posted by: Lago | February 8, 2007 2:43 PM
I'm particularly annoyed by Schlussel's conflation of "not believing in a Higher Power" with, apparently, "not believing we should have to obey or follow anyone but ourselves." That first phrase is a kind of popular expression for "metaphysical naturalism," -- and has nothing to do with the second concept, which deals with how we ought to conduct ourselves with one another. Misinterpreting and exploiting this kind of superficial resemblance is indicative of shallow thinking -- and the kind of bigotry that goes along with it.
Posted by: Sastra | February 8, 2007 3:09 PM
Posted by: llewelly | February 8, 2007 3:17 PM
"Haven't you heard? The 9-11 attacks were carried out by Atheist Iraqis. Oh, and they were environmentalists and Masons too. "
Don't forget feminists. And gay. The wingnuts blame everything on Teh Gays and feminsts.
Posted by: Vera Venom | February 8, 2007 3:24 PM
"Haven't you heard? The 9-11 attacks were carried out by Atheist Iraqis. Oh, and they were environmentalists and Masons too. "
Don't forget feminists. And gay. The wingnuts blame everything on Teh Gays and feminsts.
Posted by: Vera Venom | February 8, 2007 3:25 PM
PZ:
Oh! Azzam the American! The October Surprise of 2004! LOL!
Greg Peterson:
Ah, really? What about Captain Unelected and Richard the Lying-Hearted?
Posted by: David Marjanović | February 8, 2007 3:59 PM
I remember Debbie Schlussel from my time at grad school at University of Michigan (1988-90). She was always a grandstanding nincompoop blowhard. She always tried every controversial means to get recognized on campus. I believe she was a member of Young Americans for Freedom, the latest crop of whom appeared at MLK rallies with bullhorns, trying to get themselves beat up for their racist insults.
Deb also appeared regularly on Detroit local news shows, as some kind of "spokesperson" for the rethuglican viewpoint du jour. To say she was shrill is an insult to shrillness. She also made a run for political office during the 90's (I forget which one), and lost.
Perhaps the best thing to do is ignore her and her putrid website, but then again, it is good to keep up with the zeitgeist. Unfortunately, I think she does reflect the mindset of quite a few ignorant, misinformed, in-need-of-some-psych-wonderdrug individuals who keep getting pooped out of the US's pathetic educational system.
Posted by: fuzzbollah | February 8, 2007 4:00 PM
Based on limited research, the right appears to claim DS because she is Teh Hot. Apparently that's scarce among the nuttier fringe.
Posted by: les | February 8, 2007 4:09 PM
So if I'm the atheist daughter of a Catholic ex-hippie and a diehard agnostic biology professor, and I have spent time in Egypt and don't think most Muslims are really as bad as people like to think they are... this makes me... carry the three...
Damn. Apparently, I am a baby-eating Nazi.
"A Muslim prayer at a high school football game in Dearbornistan? Suddenly, when the "Religion of Peace" is involved, atheists boast extreme tolerance and display ultimate deference. No lawsuits. Ever. And the Muslim prayers continue."
Dearborn, according to several searches I just did, is the second largest Muslim city outside the Middle East (Paris is the first). 95% of the high school is Muslim, including 52 out of 53 football players. Several grads have been arrested for suspcion of terrorism.
So, um, I really doubt the atheists are boasting extreme tolerance. If I were an atheist at that school, my reasons for not speaking up would include, you know, not wanting to get blown up. Or beaten up. Or even harassed.
Sigh... I still can't bring myself to watch that video, you know.
Posted by: Chinchillazilla | February 8, 2007 4:21 PM
les,
I am so avoiding a comment about selection and evolution right now.
However, in all seriousness, perhaps its a Coulter/Malkin thing. They're selling the fantasy of a hot, aggressive, yet oh-so-republican (and thus of course traditional) woman. It's fanservice, perhaps.
Posted by: DragonScholar | February 8, 2007 4:22 PM
les: It seems to me like the Right has a pretty good stock of Aryan femmebots.
Posted by: Rey Fox | February 8, 2007 4:28 PM
"...suprisingly a member of MENSA apparently. But I've guess we've all met people who are academically able but socially retarded."
Although I regularly encounter people who lower the apparent intellectual standard required to be MENSA-stic, Schlussel's inclusion really is an eye-opener, because she doesn't seem academically able either. She claims to speak at least four languages, but based on how she writes, English evidently isn't among them, and I'm not saying that merely because she's a strident asshole.
Posted by: kemibe | February 8, 2007 5:00 PM
Oh my FSM. Reading Debbie made my brain melt out my nose. Well, actually trying to follow her logic melted my brain.
Heretofore I have never understood the phenomenon of feeling shame over another's behavior, when the other shares some common denominator with you. (you know, ethnicity, race or religion).
Now I get it.
Suddenly I'm ashamed to have ovaries.
Posted by: Liz Ditz | February 8, 2007 5:09 PM
Björk is way hotter than any wingnut femmebot and, not coincidentally, could beat all of them up. While wearing a swan dress.
(From a 2004 interview in Diva magazine.)
Posted by: Blake Stacey | February 8, 2007 5:09 PM
Between "I'm surprised these atheists would be so obedient to a higher power" and the thing Andrew posted where Schlussel says the Native Americans obviously stole North America from its previous occupants, my eyes won't stop rolling.
Posted by: Cris | February 8, 2007 5:21 PM
Wow, PZ - GREAT POST!!!
Debbie Schlussel is a hack - I've been reading her blog for a while (sometimes I need to increase the temperature of my blood) and have actually written her on a couple of occasions. She can't seem to get her facts straight, but as long as she can hate on Islam (and now apparently atheism), she'll spew it.
Karen Hunter I had never heard of before this CNN episode. I just checked her Wikipedia entry, and it looks like half of it deals with her 'views on atheism'. Ha, it would be great if that was what she is remembered for going forward.
Anyways, I chose not to e-mail Debbie or Karen, but I did e-mail Stephen A. Smith, thanking him for representing tolerance and decency.
I'm not an atheist myself (actually Jewish), but I most definitely believe in freedom, justice, and equality. Obviously, Ms. Schlussel has no respect for what I believe in. (Including Judaism? DS: "This is a Christian nation")
Posted by: Shap | February 8, 2007 5:51 PM
Liz Ditz -
Don't be ashamed about your ovaries! We haven't yet proven that D Schlussel also has a pair of those. Judging by her Ann Coulter sized adam's apple, she might have a pair of something else.
Now, if I could just convince myself that she's not really Jewish, and not really from Detroit, I could stop feeling so ashamed of myself :)
Posted by: Shap | February 8, 2007 5:58 PM