…and this is a 
Sometimes it's the little things that are the most revealing, that expose the bankruptcy of an idea. For instance, this story from a Florida school where the principal and teachers cast a magic spell.
It had been a hard Friday at Brooksville Elementary School, with lots of misbehavior that didn't bode well for the start of state testing the following week.
So the principal and a few staff members appealed to a higher power.
They prayed and blessed their students' desks with prayer oil.
While the Christian prayers and anointing took place after school hours on Friday, Feb. 2, the oil was still on desks the following Monday when teachers opened their classrooms.
I know that sometimes the staff at schools have to compromise to deal with public pressure, and that sometimes we can disagree on policy issues. I have high expectations of teachers and administrators, though, and I trust them to be educated, intelligent, and rational, at least in matters of running the school and educating kids.
These people are superstitious lunatics.
Look, it's very simple: if you believe that daubing objects with holy bacon drippings and chanting magic words will imbue them with special powers, if you think your imaginary Lord of the Universe will whisper answers to a test in a kid's ears if his chair has a spot of grease on it, but won't if it doesn't, if your job is to teach children and you think one way to give them an understanding of algebra is to beg a ghost to do it for you, you are a disgrace, a confused and deluded kook, and you are screwing up. Get help. Your delusions are affecting your performance and your life.
The ACLU is getting in on the act.
But an official with the American Civil Liberties Union said the religious group crossed a constitutional line, effectively imposing their beliefs by leaving prayer oil on the desks for children and staff members to see.
"If the principal and teachers want to have some kind of prayer after hours, that's not a constitutional problem," said Rebecca Steele, director of the ACLU office in Tampa. "But they did leave tangible evidence of their religious activity, (and) that was troubling to people."
That's fine, but it's criticizing them for all the wrong reasons. Yeah, they're violating the separation of church and state, and they should be slapped down for that. It's missing the point, though.
Prayer oil.
What the heck is prayer oil, and what kind of kook believes this nonsense has any effect at all? The problem here is that there is a set of teachers and an administrator at this school who are deranged…but of course, because they use the excuse that it is "religion" everyone backs off, gets all deferential, and pretends they aren't dealing with a team of quacks, clowns, and slow-witted, thoughtless incompetents.
I say fire the lot of them for behavior not befitting a civilized member of an enlightened society, especially not people of responsibility to whom we entrust the education of our children.
Jebus. Magic goop. Prancing, chanting shamans. If the kids do poorly on the test, we know the reason: idiots running the classrooms. This is what religion does, it rips up your brain and infuses it with credulity and sloppy thinking.
Comments
Posted by: Phil | February 23, 2007 5:39 PM
You know, I was thinking along the same lines when I saw a picture on the front of the Washington Post Metro section on Thursday, of people in church on Ash Wednesday. The idea that this was something that merited the front page of the B section -- as if it were somehow legitimate news! -- with a completely innocuous caption, rather than something like "Crazy people smear dirt on their faces on purpose, and the rest of us are supposed to look at them and not laugh at them" is completely beyond me.
But remember, the media is hostile towards religion.
Posted by: CS Lewis Jr | February 23, 2007 5:40 PM
I thought everyone knew: It's Santeria for state testing, Jesus Oil for SATs. Get with it, people!
Posted by: George | February 23, 2007 5:44 PM
Forget it, PZ. It's Florida.
Posted by: muppt | February 23, 2007 5:45 PM
jn th fght gnst Znsm
http://www.zpd.rg/
Posted by: Amit Joshi | February 23, 2007 5:45 PM
PZ asks:
That's easy--it's the non-hydrogenated modern version of snake oil, of course!
Posted by: Krystalline Apostate | February 23, 2007 5:52 PM
Talk about a fire hazard. Or what if 1 of those kids was allergic?
Hmmm...they should test the oil, maybe it's the kind you find in stores named 'Nice 'n Naughty'? ;)
Posted by: Kseniya | February 23, 2007 5:53 PM
Uhh-ohh. I slid through the educational system on 10W-30. Is that a sin?
Posted by: TAW | February 23, 2007 5:53 PM
Yeah, kids' failures are mostly due to their teachers. If you haven't watched it, this story is pretty interesting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfRUMmTs0ZA I also watched his "the power of belief" and I liked it too.
Posted by: Steve_C | February 23, 2007 5:54 PM
Can we please ban muppt. All they do is post a link to that. "Anti zionist" site.
I'd pull my kid before the test was taken... wouldn't roll the dice with those loons in charge.
Give new meaning to No Child "Left Behind".
Posted by: Interrobang | February 23, 2007 5:55 PM
Keep in mind, too, these are people who'd absolutely freak out if, say, a group of Wiccans smudged sage in the classrooms to exactly the same end.
I definitely agree with the point that if you have to beg for supernatural intercession on behalf of your students, you suck as a teacher.
Posted by: Ichthyic | February 23, 2007 5:56 PM
Look, it's very simple: if you believe that daubing objects with holy bacon drippings and chanting magic words will imbue them with special powers...
sorry, you lost me at bacon.
mmmmmm, bacon...
*drool*
Posted by: llewelly | February 23, 2007 5:56 PM
Nit: The Prayer Oil is much more likely olive oil rather than bacon drippings. (Unless they were like certain miserly Mormons I once knew and used canola oil instead.) (Same efficacy (or the lack thereof), I would imagine.)
Posted by: RickD | February 23, 2007 5:58 PM
This is a serious question: just how ludicrous can the behavior of educators be tolerated if it is said to be representative of religion. What if the teachers were rastafarians and felt the need to smoke a little pot to help the students?
Posted by: Ichthyic | February 23, 2007 5:58 PM
..and yes, based on PZ's rules for bannable offenses, muppt belongs in the dungeon.
Posted by: Steve_C | February 23, 2007 5:59 PM
TAW you did not just link to a John Stossel 20/20 piece?
That guy is a disaster. He likes to do unscientific studies, or read one and then jump to inane conclusions.
He's an idiot.
Posted by: PZ Myers | February 23, 2007 6:06 PM
Does it really matter what kind of oil it is? Is the creator of the universe watching his cholesterol levels, perhaps?
Posted by: Steve_C | February 23, 2007 6:11 PM
Holy Oil blessed by a priest? Don't Catholic priests use oil for anointing?
Just gotta say a special pray and presto chango magic!
Why am I thinking about a cheesy Vegas Magician now?
Posted by: Rey Fox | February 23, 2007 6:15 PM
I ain't lettin' my (theoretical) kids anywhere near that gerin oil, nosiree.
Posted by: TAW | February 23, 2007 6:16 PM
Steve_C, I guess I wouldn't know. Today's the first time I even heard of 20/20, and while I didn't really like how unscientific his show was, I think he made very good points about competition and stuff like that. And like I said I did like his "power of belief" show.
Posted by: j. crayon | February 23, 2007 6:16 PM
I'm a teacher in Florida. Our principal prays at the beginning of every single staff meeting.
This sort of thing isn't really that unusual here. Teachers and principals are always looking to find some way to sneak prayer back into public school, even if they can't do it publicly. I'm assuming that our principal thinks that none of us care and/or are all Christians.
The really crazy thing is that one of the teachers hired around the same time as me was actually asked during the interview if she would have a problem with prayer at staff meetings. In need of the job, she said that she wouldn't care, but I've always wondered what would have happened if she'd been honest. Would they have refused to hire her?
Posted by: George | February 23, 2007 6:18 PM
Give new meaning to No Child "Left Behind".
New motto:
Welcome to Florida's Schools
No Child Left Behind Left Unanointed
Posted by: RedMolly | February 23, 2007 6:18 PM
I'm so happy that our backwards, public education-destroying, child-damaging homeschool has never once anointed anything with oil, "prayer" or otherwise.
My kids' opinion on this story: "That's weird. And gross." Also, "Didn't it make their test papers all see-through?" Point well taken...
Posted by: Fernando Magyar | February 23, 2007 6:20 PM
Hey George,
As one of two atheists living in Florida who also has an 11 yr old math and science whiz in public school here, I would most courteously like to thank you for your public statement of support...cheers!
Posted by: Kseniya | February 23, 2007 6:20 PM
"Annoint" ....
.... "oil" ....
Ohgod. I'm having Ashcroft flashbacks.
Does it really matter what kind of oil it is?
Nope. But they should have used linseed.
Posted by: Steve_C | February 23, 2007 6:32 PM
Ignore him. He's a crank. And a "libertarian". Town Hall and Free Republic love him.
http://mediamatters.org/items/200601200003
Read that. It's what he does over and over. He has a point of view and Cherry Picks to prove his point. He's also a Global Warming denier and is against the minimum wage.
Posted by: JONBOY | February 23, 2007 6:33 PM
Fernando Magyar, So you are the other atheist in Florida apart from myself, "Hi There"
Posted by: JakeB | February 23, 2007 6:35 PM
Gotta agree with ichthyic. If God existed, I bet you could win him over with bacon.
Posted by: llewelly | February 23, 2007 6:38 PM
Imagine an atheist who'd grown up in a disturbing religious environment where olive oil was commonly used as prayer oil. Imagine they can tell the difference between bacon drippings and olive oil by smell. Now imagine the atheist is invited to give a lecture on atheism. But, when they go to give the lecture, they find the lectern has been doused in oil. If this hypothetical atheist smells olive oil, they'll think one thing, and if they smell bacon drippings, they'll think something different.I admit it's a small thing, not relevant to your point, but - look, I know most people on this blog, bar the occasional cephalopod, are primates, and primates are nit-pickers by nature. I'm just trying to fit in.
Posted by: MikeM | February 23, 2007 6:40 PM
This is why I keep saying we have to help lead people out of the foggy, boggy swamp. It seems to me that this world is infested with folks who want to evangelize for a myth, but we're not evangelizing enough for rational thought.
I applaud what PZ does here, and what Phil Plait does, and what James Randi does, as well as the work of Skepdic (from my hometown, I say proudly), Museum of Hoaxes, and the Skeptic's Annotated Bible... But it's still not enough.
I pass by a street Christian every day, and I've never said a word to her. She peddles her crazy every single day. I have yet to see anyone ask her why she's so superstitious.
Oil on desks. Just when you HOPE you've seen everything...
Folks, we have to be as active promoting rational thought as they are at promoting this kind of thought. More so, even.
If this had been Hindu incense, or a Buddhist gong, people would be freaking out. Those are just as effective as oil on desks, by the way.
I'm just tired of it. We have a culture to rescue, if it's not too late. I think my stand is quite patriotic too, by the way. The bold experiment that RATIONAL folks came up with won't survive an excess of quackery. We'll soon be REQUIRED to PRAY to that quackery. The very thing that got this country started will be lost.
End of rant. Get back to work.
Posted by: Ichthyic | February 23, 2007 6:44 PM
Does it really matter what kind of oil it is? Is the creator of the universe watching his cholesterol levels, perhaps?
what was that about bacon again?
Posted by: Ichthyic | February 23, 2007 6:48 PM
This sort of thing isn't really that unusual here.
..and so...
are you in fear of losing your job if you work to make it so that it IS an unusual thing, at least?
aside from constitutional issues, surely you can raise the issue of the example it sets for the kids themselves?
Posted by: TAW | February 23, 2007 6:50 PM
Steve_C, I'll look into it. Thanks!
Posted by: Jason | February 23, 2007 6:53 PM
MikeM,
Well, what do you propose we do, exactly, other than continue to criticize religion and spread the good word about the virtues of skepticism and disbelief? Your tone suggests you think some kind of drastic or coercive action is required (to "rescue" our culture before it is "too late.")
Posted by: Ichthyic | February 23, 2007 6:55 PM
for those who are Steve Martin fans, you might recall this from a rather appropriately named film of his...
The poems of John Lillison, England's Greatest One-Armed Poet, as read by Dr. Michael Hfuhruhurr:
"Pointy Birds"
O pointy birds, o pointy pointy,
Anoint my head, anointy-nointy.
Posted by: Scott Hatfield | February 23, 2007 7:03 PM
"Does it really matter what kind of oil it is? Is the creator of the universe watching his cholesterol levels, perhaps?"
(joshingly) Well, you know, maybe it's like GOOD cholesterol, that God fellow, BAD cholesterol, Ol' Scratch?
Posted by: Russell | February 23, 2007 7:24 PM
j. crayon writes:
That makes me wonder if public schools are covered by federal EEO laws. A corporation that asked such a question in an interview would be violation of the law, and would open itself to a nasty lawsuit. Small businesses aren't necessarily covered by EEO. I have no idea whether schools are or are not.
Posted by: Zeno | February 23, 2007 7:27 PM
As a cradle Catholic, I grew up inured to things like literal anointing -- that is, daubing with oil. It was a commonplace of cermonies like confirmation, when the bishop would smear a little sign of the cross on your forehead with oil. Most people recognize the mark of Ash Wednesday on observant Catholics, which is a smear of ashes on the forehead. As I grew older (and grew out of my family's faith), it was driven home to me how smug many Protestants were about having cast off all those popish superstitions involving sacraments and sacramentals. Among contemporary Christians, however, the most resolutely weird types can now be found among the devout Protestants, who are so eager to share their Crisco Christ. John Ashcroft, for another example, had himself anointed with cooking oil before embarking on the sacred task of serving as George Bush's attorney general. (We all know how well that turned out.) I guess they missed some of the things they once lost with the Reformation.
Eventually someone is going to smear a little too much "holy oil" around, an innocent bystander is going to slip on it, and there'll be a lovely little lawsuit.
Posted by: OmegaMom | February 23, 2007 7:29 PM
Well, actually, PZ, if it were *peanut* oil, they'd be in a world of trouble...imagine if they anointed the desks, and on Monday morning, one of their students went into anaphylactic shock as a result...
Posted by: Coragyps | February 23, 2007 7:32 PM
Being Florida, you'd hope they'd use 20W-40 or straight 30-weight. The desks might burn a piston ring in that climate with lighter stuff.
Wow. Anointing friggin' desks. You wouldn't believe it in a novel.....
Posted by: Skeptyk | February 23, 2007 7:35 PM
Trans fats!
Posted by: craig | February 23, 2007 7:45 PM
I have four nieces in this school district. :(
Posted by: beepbeepitsme | February 23, 2007 7:47 PM
Why didn't they chop the head off a chicken and drizzle a bit of chicken goop on the desk, and then run naked around the room 3 times in an anti-clockwise direction? It would have had the same result.
Posted by: Rey Fox | February 23, 2007 8:00 PM
"LeDoux said such criticisms came from disgruntled former employees, and most teachers feel a supportive and family atmosphere at the school."
Yeah, wait 'til they start bringing the rattlesnakes in.
And of course, no reflection at all on why the organization has "disgruntled" former employees. And here I am thinking education should be the opposite of tunnel vision.
Why exactly do people equate religion with "family" (used as an adjective) anyway?
Posted by: mjfgates | February 23, 2007 8:03 PM
Bacon drippings would smell noticeably better than chicken goop, especially after having been left for a weekend.
If we were REALLY the chosen people...
Posted by: MYOB | February 23, 2007 8:21 PM
Way back in the early 80's my parents moved us into a rented home. The kind of home where the owner lets his wife handle all the duties while he just likes to read the paper and do his daily job. A few weeks after moving in we started discovering all kinds of secretly hidden prayer items like small thumbnail sized crosses and postage stamp sized pictures of catholic saints. All of it in places around the home where we were not obviously expected to see it. On top of door frames or embedded under the carpet(we had to pull it back once to take care of a leak in the foundation.) we even found a small stainless steel crucifix placed inside the showerhead.
Of course my mome who is a southern baptist thought it was harmless but weird. My dad thought it was insulting. This was clearly not a case where the owners placed them there for either their own benefit or the previous occupants.
These items, may parents both decided on, were there because the owners thought we needed them. Now my family was not anythihg like PZ's. We were non-churchgoers but most if not all of the family save for myself, were believers. We just weren't churchgoers cause my mom always thought church was for sinners and those who couldn't read their own bibles. My dad always thought church was for those who wanted to treat it like a social club rather than a way to save their souls or seek the truth of god. They had their bibles and they read them.
And the placement of these items was, in thier opinions, a statement about them and their habits. It was an act of placing judgement.
Later when we eventually moved out my parents finally confronted them on it. They discovered there were still several items around the house in places we hadn't looked. Like inside the vents and behind some of the kitchen drawers, etc. But when my Dad asked them why, they said it was common practice to place these items there to protect us from harm and thus protect them as well.
Again, my mom thought it was harmless but my dad did say he found it insulting that they would think our family needed such help. We had nothing ever happen to us that would signify that we needed religious help to save us so why the effort? When it came right down to it they simply thought they knew better and had to be our keepers. Had this happened today I would have acted differently and told them to go f*ck their keeper.
MYOB'
.
Posted by: Brian X | February 23, 2007 8:22 PM
Anointing is a waste of good olive oil. Not only is it a practice completely divorced from its cultural context (it would seem butter would be more appropriate for a country with a strong northern European heritage), but all that oil going rancid in a dusty tabernacle somewhere rather than being poured on a salad or a piece of ciabatta bread makes my inner foodie cry.
As for John Stossel... he must have given Baba Wawa some amazing head, because I can't otherwise imagine why she'd give a libertarian, Steven Milloy-wannabe grouch like him her chair. ABC has a mixed record when it comes to good reporting anyway though -- Peter Jennings was always a straight shooter, and I think George Stephanopoulos is a great political analyst, but Michael Guillen (to take an example) was a half-baked embarrassment. I can't remember who -- either Martin Gardner or Bob Park -- absolutely shredded Guillen in a book for inflating his credentials and being too credulous in his reporting. Stossel is no improvement.
Posted by: Tukla in Iowa | February 23, 2007 8:28 PM
Why didn't they chop the head off a chicken and...
Because that would be crazy.
Posted by: nkylib | February 23, 2007 8:30 PM
Prayer oil is right next to the olive oil, but then I live in Ken Ham country
Posted by: Caledonian | February 23, 2007 8:32 PM
Religious structures are just familial solidatrity writ large. Deities are parental substitutes.
Posted by: Hank Fox | February 23, 2007 8:33 PM
...
...
Couldn't resist:
Jesus Mystery Oil
...
...
Posted by: MikeG | February 23, 2007 8:35 PM
Magyar, JONBOY,
We can now make that 3 athiests in FL!
That's a major improvement!
I thought I was alone...
MikeG
Posted by: andrea | February 23, 2007 8:37 PM
I'm guessing that "family atmosphere" is doublespeak for "patriarchical"?
And I thought my neck o' the woods was rife with loonies...
Posted by: craig | February 23, 2007 8:40 PM
Florida atheist #4 checking in.
Posted by: khan | February 23, 2007 8:58 PM
Among contemporary Christians, however, the most resolutely weird types can now be found among the devout Protestants, who are so eager to share their Crisco Christ. John Ashcroft, for another example, had himself anointed with cooking oil before embarking on the sacred task of serving as George Bush's attorney general.
AKA "The Crisco Kid".
Posted by: ckerst | February 23, 2007 9:14 PM
Hey a little prayer oil on a plate with cracked pepper and crusty Italian bread, yum.
Posted by: JamesR | February 23, 2007 9:19 PM
First, How did they do on the tests? If they did not get higher scores then someone should point that out to the teachers and allow them to explain why god passed over them. This is a good time to get in their face for this nonsense. Prayer doesn't work and that should be the point of any discussion with this school.
Second, this is proof that the mentally ill can and do find jobs.
Posted by: Crudely Wrott | February 23, 2007 9:20 PM
Has everyone missed the most essential point? It's not political or religious or scientific. It is simply a question of foresight and common courtesy. For example:
Suppose you were a student who had been up late polishing a book report. The best one she ever wrote. She has just entered the classroom and moves towards her desk, confident that her efforts will boost her grade. A boy says something she doesn't really hear but she glances up with a smile, an inward one, as she takes her seat. Pulling out the book report she notes with pride the simple yet authoritative cover sheet and she places it carefully on the desk. After a moment to gather a pen and notebook she looks up to see the teacher completing his perfunctory ritual that opens every class. He looks up.
"OK, class, good morning and I hope you all have prepared the book reports that you are about to pass forward to the front of each row. I'm looking forward to reading them all."
She reaches to take up her report while turning back to be ready for those handed up from behind. Something; "Pick it up!" then looking down to see the paper stuck to the desk, one corner lifted in her fingers. And it was slippery! The desk was glistening with an ugly slime and drops of it were slowly oozing from the corner of the book report she held. She let go and pulled her hand back in a sudden motion and her scream caused all the other kids and the teacher to jump.
This is simply a case of bad manners/stupidity. Total disregard for the next person who will be coming along. I suppose that if they thought about what would happen to the oil it must have been a vague image of the oil vaporising and being snorted up by an invisiblesupernaturalspook. To these people the only polite comment is "Thanks, asshole."
Posted by: Colugo | February 23, 2007 9:28 PM
Religion: Durkheim figured out a good deal of it a long time ago.
Holy oil: Besides its use as a food, for thousands of years olive oil has been used for cleaning the skin and as a topical ointment and internal medicine. Olive oil contains omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids and the extra-virgin form has anti-inflammatory properties. Not coincidentally, oil also has long had ceremonial functions in Eurasian cultures.
Clearly, olive oil's inherent nutritive and medicinal properties led to its being more generically culturally associated with healing and well-being, and hence supernatural beneficial properties.
Posted by: Tony P | February 23, 2007 9:49 PM
Just to preface things, I work for the state of Rhode Island where the motto is "To hold forth a lively experiment that a most flourishing civil state may stand and best be maintained with full liberty in religious concernments."
Note that first it says "a most flourishing civil state may stand..." That's right, secular before the religious.
Firstly we had a Fat Tuesday luncheon. I can deal with that since it's food, and we I.T. people are known for our discriminating tastes when it comes to food. But during the luncheon several co-workers were talking about their walking program and how on Ash Wednesday they'd be walking to a nearby church for the ashes.
I have to explain that the unit I work in is comprised of five people, two of us are outright atheists and one is on the edge of acknowledging his atheism. Of the other two one is undoubtedly Christian but doesn't push it in our faces, and the other is a complete mystery but I strongly suspect she's an atheist too.
But then, it's the I.T. unit. I wouldn't expect any less of us.
Posted by: joe in oklahoma | February 23, 2007 9:56 PM
instead of literally seeing these oils as some charm that exerts 'power'
can you understand them as an act of 'symbolic claiming'?
either way, of course, these people were kooks, but it seems some folk in here are incapable of symbolic thinking.
just a (rational) thought
Posted by: Caledonian | February 23, 2007 10:19 PM
No - it's just that we left merely associational thought behind a long time ago.
Posted by: False Prophet | February 23, 2007 10:26 PM
You know what I find most ridiculous about this whole thing? These morons weren't even practicing "religion"; they were practicing magic. Instead of using their faith to be better human beings and thus better teachers, they decided that a formulaic invocation with candles and oil would bend God's power to their will. Real Christians should be offended. But that's what religion has reverted to, eh? Magic spells, and the belief they know what God wants.
Hell, even an atheist like me remembers enough Catholic upbringing to find the whole thing despicable. It's also the reason I found "Touched by An Angel" to be an extremely anti-Christian show. Every episode, some guy is told God loves him, and he denies it, until an angel appears all in white, lit by celestial light. Modern Christianity is nothing but egotistical New Age crap.
Posted by: Fernando Magyar | February 23, 2007 10:37 PM
Hey if this keeps up we could have an atheist float next Mardi Gras! Jonboy, Mike and Craig you should have been on Hollywood beach to meet the guy with the Jesus placards walking around on fat tuesday. I suggested he lighten up, have a beer and enjoy the music. Well as you might expect he didn't like my suggestion!
Posted by: Jon H | February 23, 2007 10:49 PM
It'd probably be best to spread the rumor that it was actually KY warming jelly.
Posted by: Inkyt | February 23, 2007 10:56 PM
No.
If the kids fail the test, that's because they accidentally used the wrong kind of oil, one that doesn't hold the prayer blessing mumbo jumbo adequately within its slick molecules. For example, Made In America (or rather, Somewhere in the Bible Belt) corn oil is *vastly* superior in prayer essence containing capability compared to, say, that foreign olive oil from some Satanic country in Europe.
Or *maybe* the kids may fail the test because the school adminiretards anointed the *desks* but not the *kids*.
On the other hand, in the next safety inspection, no doubt the desks will perform so above average that it could be none other than divine desk fortification.
Posted by: Ichthyic | February 23, 2007 11:08 PM
Instead of using their faith to be better human beings and thus better teachers, they decided that a formulaic invocation with candles and oil would bend God's power to their will.
next book in the series:
Harry Potter and the Oil of Wishes.
Posted by: Rex | February 23, 2007 11:41 PM
What happens if you fry something in prayer oil?
Posted by: Crudely Wrott | February 23, 2007 11:51 PM
You get to eat your own words. Crunchy.
Posted by: Torbjörn Larssona | February 24, 2007 12:44 AM
I would not have a problem with that. I'm an asstheist - every time I hear a prayer my go(na)ds tells me to turn around and drop the pants. (If the principal objects to equal time to other religions, it could also be AssDD - Ass-Derived Disorder, akin to Tourette's but triggered by him making an ass of himself.)
Posted by: fudspong | February 24, 2007 6:15 AM
Torbjörn Larssona
Thank goodness, someone actually proposes a practical solution to this!
There are laws against this sort of ass-hattery in Australia too, but I wouldn't like to be the one testing them. But if it has to be done, I'm here, and willing to fight against the Cult of the death-worshippers.
Posted by: Scooter | February 24, 2007 6:47 AM
This was on the news just now. The Virgin Mary has appeared on a Holy Pizza Pan in Houston and thousands, erm, hundreds are prostrating themselves before it. This story is begging for the PZ Myers Treatment!
Posted by: Lancelot Gobbo | February 24, 2007 7:07 AM
KY Jelly? Only with Astroglide can you get a camel through the eye of a needle.
Posted by: Brian Delaney | February 24, 2007 7:37 AM
"...enlightened society..."?
http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/duncan/17535/
And if you were to say that its no better in Canada, I, sadly, would fully agree.
Posted by: Alison | February 24, 2007 8:24 AM
Hmmm. I wonder if they've taken the Harry Potter books out of the school library because they encourage witchcraft? Wouldn't that be ironic. . .
Posted by: Steve_C | February 24, 2007 8:47 AM
Hey joe from oklahoma...
We see it all as symbolic thinking... it's a symbol of delusion.
Symbolic claiming? Ummm yeah, Ok.
Posted by: K | February 24, 2007 9:23 AM
#5 Atheist in Florida and I homeschool BECAUSE of the Florida public school system.
Posted by: Tinni | February 24, 2007 10:48 AM
Wow, you guys made me think I grew up in a really weird environment. This doesn't surprise me at all. Back in Puerto Rico people can mix weird Santeria and "white magic" bullshit with catholic bullshit to get weird mumbo jumbo "ideas". Like people casting spells on you; and you fought back with weird catholic spells but still used crazy things like flowers and coconuts and crushed egg shells with incense and sugar and cinnamon. Of course you added the candle of some weird saint and asked for "angelic help" ... *brrrr.. bad memories*
Posted by: dh | February 24, 2007 10:55 AM
My daughter and her family of four live in Florida, with two kids in private school, not public. So is that 7 now?
Posted by: j. crayon | February 24, 2007 10:58 AM
Russell wrote:
That makes me wonder if public schools are covered by federal EEO laws. A corporation that asked such a question in an interview would be violation of the law, and would open itself to a nasty lawsuit. Small businesses aren't necessarily covered by EEO. I have no idea whether schools are or are not.
It seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen, even if under religious discrimination grounds. What if they refused to hire a Hindu teacher (let alone an atheist teacher, like me - 6 of us in FL!) because she'd have a problem with a Christian prayer at the beginning of staff meetings? Couldn't the prospective employee sue for discrimination?
Posted by: WayBeyondSoccerMom | February 24, 2007 11:15 AM
The Tampa Bay website for the St. Pete Times now has comments about the article and the majority of the comments are all in favor of what the principal did.
http://blogs.tampabay.com/schools/2007/02/principal_praye.html
Anyone care to help make the comments a bit more balanced?
--
BTW, Florida Atheist #6 checking in.
Posted by: cecropia | February 24, 2007 11:41 AM
Prayer oil in the New Testament is the oil from the olive tree. It represents the Holy Spirit-- Whose historic function is to seal the believer in Christ.
To be efficacious, however, the oil is meant to be applied to the head, not the desk. But then, parents being what they are, there might have been civil issues for the teacher.
Sure, it's symbolism. But what in the classroom and the world isn't? As Thomas Carlyle said: "The Universe is but one vast Symbol of God."
And it's only through the right symbols that we perceive the Reality behind the Symbol.
In this regard, olive oil is probably as a good symbol, and maybe better, than most.
I could've used some in high school, I'm sure.
Posted by: Nance Confer | February 24, 2007 11:47 AM
Hey, if your salary and school budget depended on this stupid test, you might start spraying all sorts of fluids around!
And people wonder why we homeschool. . .
Nance (yep, embarrassed in FL once again)(and another atheist but nobody cares because we must be idiots -- we're from FL!)
Posted by: George | February 24, 2007 11:48 AM
Anyone care to help make the comments a bit more balanced?
I sent a comment asking the teachers to fling al dente strands of San Giorgio #8 at the students (they could pre-toss with holy oil, if they so wished).
It might help with those SAT scores, who knows? It will make the FSM happy, that's what really counts.
Posted by: Crosius | February 24, 2007 12:55 PM
"Prayer Oil" is vague, but I believe the oil in question is a mixture of olive oil and balsam.
This is known as "Chrism", and is the oil they smear on the participant's head at baptism, confirmation and last rights.
Due to it's use in many skin creams, low level exposure to Balsam in infancy is common. This can lead to the same sorts of hypersensitivity allergies people have to latex, so there is purely secular reason to object to this behaviour. I am assuming they did not post signage in the school warning the potentially allergic that their desks might be coated in a product containing balsam.
They're lucky none of the students had to use an EpiPen.
Posted by: just watching | February 24, 2007 1:02 PM
I just posted this at the site WayBeyondSoccerMom posted as well:
Public evidence of prayer in a public school is offensive because it is indicative of the principal's disrespect for the students and their beliefs.
Each person has the right to their own beliefs, and responsibility for those beliefs rests with the child and her parents, not with the public schools.
The principal clearly does not respect beliefs different than her own, and feels the need to impose her beliefs on all teachers and students with prayer, because she does not trust others to believe (and therefore pray) correctly. I am certain she did not do this with disrespect in mind, just as I am sure that this is not the first of such misplaced prayer rites.
Her prayers for others are part of her own beliefs and she does have the right to them, but the ceremonies involved need to be either private or performed in a church, not imposed upon desks and therefore students like some sort of magic pixie dust.
Posted by: John Marley | February 24, 2007 1:50 PM
I've always said:
"Pray for me if you like, just do it somewhere far away, please."
Although I find that kind of religious imposition mildly offensive, I think the oily desks are a much bigger problem.
(Would an obsevant child who cleaned the desk before setting stuff on it be guilty of a sin?}
Posted by: David | February 24, 2007 2:37 PM
You ask what kooks believe in objects being blessed.
Try a billion Roman Catholics or 500 Million Eastern Orthodox. Or the millions of Hindus and Buddhists.
You call them cooks.
In that is included the Monks and Nuns, whom medical science marvels at their ability to use parts of their minds during prayer that talking monkeys like you cannot.
Posted by: Carlie | February 24, 2007 2:56 PM
We call them cooks? Only if they sautee some onions with that blessed oil.
Posted by: Mick | February 24, 2007 3:03 PM
David:
You call them cooks.
Just because people around the world use oil, that doesn't make them cooks. Heck, my grandma just uses bacon drippings, she never buys oil, and her food is great. My grandpa, on the other hand, uses a cup of canola just to make a grilled cheese. It's awful. Trust me.
You lost me on the monks and nuns, though. Unless you're referencing buddhist monks and nuns, who have been observed as having unusual brain use; that's due to meditation, however, not being greasy.
Posted by: j. crayon | February 24, 2007 3:04 PM
We call them cooks? Only if they sautee some onions with that blessed oil.
mmmm! that smells divine!
Posted by: Charles | February 24, 2007 3:24 PM
BTW, Florida Atheist #6 checking in.
Jebus! There's loads of you Gobless Bastards down there!!
Now, if you were in Georgia... I could tell some stories...
Posted by: Crosius | February 24, 2007 3:26 PM
David,
Secular meditation (relaxation techniques) and biofeedback can allow anyone to stimulate the parts of the brain you are talking about. That'd be science-based methods accomplishing exactly the same thing purposefully that the religious accidentally discovered through mindless repetition of ritual, without seeking understanding because it seemed to confirm a palatable portion of their faith.
In this particular case, science can discover which regions are being activated, how to activate those regions, and what activating those parts of the brain accomplishes. Science achieves both measurement and understanding, not the open-mouthed awe and inescapable ignorance you seem to suggest.
Posted by: Pareto | February 24, 2007 4:06 PM
Can't believe the principal left it there for everyone to stumble onto. Yuck.
Off-topic, but:
Steve_C: Minimum wage is not actually a good thing and should be abolished. At best, it does nothing but waste a bit of government time, and at worst, it does exactly the opposite of what it's supposed to do (plus wasting a bit more government time).
Posted by: llewelly | February 24, 2007 4:33 PM
That's ok. A student having trouble would surely apply his head to the desk.Posted by: waldteufel | February 24, 2007 5:26 PM
PZ, sometimes your eloquence assures me that you really have the complete and true heart of the pure atheist.
"Practicing religion is like mainlining stupid."
I love it! I'm gonna steal that one . . . . .
Posted by: sigrid | February 24, 2007 5:47 PM
For every gullible Christian, there is a charletan waiting to satisfy their every need. If you would like some 'prayer oil', you can order it here:
http://www.victorie-inc.us/anointing_oil_cleansing_fire.html
or here: http://www.everygoodgift.com/
or here: http://www.theprayercompany.com/
Posted by: sigrid | February 24, 2007 5:52 PM
I wonder if 'extra virgin olive oil' would help your wayward teenaged daughter?
Posted by: craig | February 24, 2007 6:44 PM
"And it's only through the right symbols that we perceive the Reality behind the Symbol."
We did. The reality behind this symbol is "some people are loony."
Posted by: Carlie | February 24, 2007 6:44 PM
I currently possess canola, olive, jojoba, and vitamin E oil. If I combine them all together does it make superholy oil?
Posted by: Mike the Mad Biologist | February 24, 2007 7:04 PM
The theological conservatives really like this anointing business: they also did it in the Alito confirmation.
Posted by: baruch grazer | February 24, 2007 7:16 PM
If the opinion of this Jebus-worshipping, bacon-drippings-besmeared, shaman-brainwasher is welcome...
...yes, fire the lot of them. Passive-aggressive, unconstitutional kid-evangelizing is not the best tax-paid use of these peoples' time.
Posted by: llewelly | February 24, 2007 7:21 PM
Mike, there seems to be someting wrong with your link. This should work.
Posted by: dorid | February 25, 2007 12:12 PM
Ichthyic, in response to #31... I used to teach in a Tampa area school. ANYONE who stands up to christian bullies is "not a team player" and doesn't get their contract renewed. You don't ever get tenure that way...
I've also taught in Georgia schools (Atlanta) where we were told that the Atlanta school children were missing the 5 pillars in their lives... and that it was up to the SCHOOL to provide ALL of them, INCLUDING CHURCH. Principals told their teachers outright that they didn't want to hear any nonsense about separation of church and state, and because of the laws there, unions do NOT protect teachers in any way.
If anyone thinks what happened in FL is unusual, I'd have to say you are SADLY WRONG... that it's in fact a LOT more common than people think, and NOT just in Kansas City. Religion is back in the classroom en force.
I spend more time UNTEACHING my children than teaching them.
Posted by: khan | February 25, 2007 2:56 PM
Theists take Dawkins to task for not studying deep, complex theological arguments; but the level of belief for most people (as evidenced by this incident) is a matter of magic spells.
Why wouldn't prayer itself be sufficient?
Why was it necessary to mark their territory?
Posted by: pm | February 25, 2007 6:01 PM
I read that story and started to wonder what the outrage would be if witches had been brought to cast a spell, or representatives from any other religion. Can you imagine the "RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION" that would have ensued. It would have been very amusing to listen to them all arguing over who has the superior imaginary friend.
Posted by: giscindy | February 25, 2007 10:05 PM
Lost track of howmany Florida atheists so far but count me as one of them. You would not believe the the religious indoctrination the kids face here. It's a full time job scrubing their minds of it.
Posted by: Scooter | February 26, 2007 5:44 AM
In reply to post #80, I made the trip there and posted demanding equal time in the school for my own religion, The Church of The Holy Frisbee. :)
Posted by: ajay | February 26, 2007 5:55 AM
Certain I am, however, that a king's head is solemnly oiled at his coronation, even as a head of salad. Can it be, though, that they anoint it with a view of making its interior run well, as they anoint machinery? Much might be ruminated here, concerning the essential dignity of this regal process, because in common life we esteem but meanly and contemptibly a fellow who anoints his hair, and palpably smells of that anointing. In truth, a mature man who uses hair-oil, unless medicinally, that man has probably got a quoggy spot in him somewhere. As a general rule, he can't amount to much in his totality.
But the only thing to be considered here, is this - what kind of oil is used at coronations? Certainly it cannot be olive oil, nor macassar oil, nor castor oil, nor bear's oil, nor train oil, nor cod-liver oil. What then can it possibly be, but sperm oil in its unmanufactured, unpolluted state, the sweetest of all oils?
Think of that, ye loyal Britons! we whalemen supply your kings and queens with coronation stuff!
-- Moby Dick
Posted by: Dutch(wo)man | February 26, 2007 7:38 AM
"This is a serious question: just how ludicrous can the behavior of educators be tolerated if it is said to be representative of religion. What if the teachers were rastafarians and felt the need to smoke a little pot to help the students?"
That, dear RickD, would have made them a little bit sleepy and less prone to aggressive behaviour...
Posted by: Uber | February 26, 2007 10:39 AM
There is no such thing. They count everyone, even those that have left. Realistic estimates are about 1/2 that and less than that practicing. Still alot.
He has studied them, just found them as wanting as the others. It's a dodge for those who dislike Dawkins.
Posted by: arensb | February 26, 2007 7:04 PM
Actually, I know from firsthand experience that WD-40 can perform miracles. Prayer oil must be the no-name-brand equivalent.
Posted by: Morfydd | March 1, 2007 7:46 PM
Gah. I am no longer particularly a believer, but if someone had done this in my school, when I *was* a fervent Christian? "Prayer oil" is heresy, possibly witchcraft, definitely delusion to the church I grew up in. I would have been appalled, and furious, and felt horribly violated.
What happened to Christianity that this can be defended by anyone outside the tiny denomination that did this?
Posted by: Ichthyic | March 1, 2007 8:01 PM
Actually, I know from firsthand experience that WD-40 can perform miracles.
funny, that's what I've been calling Wiliam Dembski for years now.
WD-40
lubrication to free rusted nuts.