…and this is a 
Doctors and engineers aren't creationists!
Category: Creationism • Open Thread
Posted on: April 3, 2007 10:00 AM, by PZ Myers
We're building up a biased sample that damns an entire profession — Dr Guliuzza, Dr Egnor (who seems to be adopting a more traditional creationist stance), and now Dr Keith Holmes (submitted by Transcription Factor), and so many more — and I thought maybe I should correct that by inviting everyone to name M.D.s and other health care professionals who are not creationist loons. I suspect the majority of doctors (and engineers!) are sensible, intelligent, educated people who have no problem with good science and think creationism is crackpottery.
Let's have an open thread where the doctors and health care professionals and engineers can proudly deny the creationist spirit. Think of it as a reference and reality check next time someone feels like groaning over yet another creationist M.D.
Comments
Hi, my name is Robert; I have a B.S. in electrical engineering, and I'm a proud secular humanist.
Posted by: Robert M. | April 3, 2007 10:07 AM
Yo. I'm King Aardvark (not my real name of course). I have an MSc in civil engineering and I've been getting pissed off at creationist engineers for years.
Posted by: King Aardvark | April 3, 2007 10:12 AM
I'm an engineer (M.S. Computer Science) and a firm believer in science. Creationism and its illogic make me weep.
(Yes, I'm an atheist.)
Posted by: Nicole the Wonder Nerd | April 3, 2007 10:14 AM
Hello,
I'm Ben, I'm a UK nephrologist, and I deny creationism (and the holy ghost for that matter).
And I'd be fairly sure that most UK doctors feel the same (about the former, anyway).
Posted by: Ben W | April 3, 2007 10:14 AM
I'm pursuing a BS in Mechanical Engineering with plans for post-graduate work and a career in that field, and I'm a proud atheist. My "sister" is a pre-med student and a Wiccan but accepts and endorses evolution. My boss has an MS in Mechanical Engineering and habitually confuses Weak Atheism with agnosticism but also accepts and endorses evolution. Unfortunately I think that's about the extent of my personal acquaintances.
Posted by: Azkyroth | April 3, 2007 10:15 AM
Dan from Idaho - I'm a nuclear engineer, and very pro-evidence and pro-rationality. I also live in a deep-red, theocratic part of the country, where Bush support is still over 50%, probably. I've got a child approaching middle-school years, so I appreciate Pharyngula as a resource for helping me be aware of what those sneaky Creationists are up to.
Posted by: idahogie | April 3, 2007 10:20 AM
I have a BA in Physics, BS in Electrical Engineering and a MS in Computer science. I am a proud secular humanist.
Posted by: a cranny mint | April 3, 2007 10:23 AM
I'm a Chemical Engineer (albeit I have a Degree in Biology, too, so I'm vaccinated against creationism) and I certainly don't buy into any of the sad nonsense that is Intelligent Design.
To be honest, I have much more respect for an honest YEC literalist who will stand up for their sincere (if insane and wildly contrafactual) beliefs than for those weaselly DI / creation science / whatever clowns.
I think I'll go evolve me some tentacles or something. Cheers!
Posted by: Stephen Johnson | April 3, 2007 10:23 AM
'Doctors are trained to spot bullshit' - Ben Goldacre
Posted by: Edd | April 3, 2007 10:25 AM
My name is Jorge. I have a BS in geology and own a biomedical equipment repair company. Needless to say, Creationism/ID is BS. Santa Claus for adults.
P.S. I love John Paul. Also, George and Ringo
Posted by: Jorge A. Rivero | April 3, 2007 10:26 AM
I'm a biomedical engineer with a Ph.D. I think creationism is nonsense. Medicine and engineering are science-based disciplines, but the vast majority of practicing medical doctors and engineers are not scientists. In our professional activities we're often more focused on what works than why it works. That sometimes leads to adopt positions that seem reasonable on the surface (given our various biases) but that are unsupported by theory. However, that certainly doesn't justify holding ourselves out as scientific experts. One of the fundamental principles of engineering ethics is that you must not practice outside your area of expertise.
Posted by: mfb | April 3, 2007 10:28 AM
I'm a surgical oncologist with a Ph.D. in Cellular Physiology, and my blog speaks for itself regarding where I stand on evolution and on how much pseudoscience irritates me.
Posted by: Orac | April 3, 2007 10:33 AM
Howdy,
I'm a BSEE and practising automotive engineer. I'm a rational atheist who works with engineers who's beliefs range from atheism (not so rare, but very quiet about it), the most commonly found nominally religious (church attendance every month or so), to one very religious member of a mega-church who once suggested to me that evolutionary theory has some holes in it.
I spent some time correcting him, but it may not have been prudent to do so. He's my boss.
We haven't discussed it since.
Posted by: Flex | April 3, 2007 10:34 AM
My name is Raul. I am an electrical engineer. After following for several years the "controversy", I agree that creationism and ID are pseudoscience. I think the "Balooney Detection Kit" that Carl Sagan mentioned in "The Demon Haunted World" should be taught in schools.
Posted by: Raul | April 3, 2007 10:39 AM
I like how a discussion which is basically a bunch of people standing up for the honest truth and saying "we're all in it together" is now the fourth most active thread at ScienceBlogs.
Posted by: Blake Stacey, OM | April 3, 2007 10:45 AM
Master's degree in Systems & Computer Engineering here. Active on the pro-evo side (mostly under my real name) on talk.origins from 1991-2004 -- and I was a Christian at the start of that period (I'm an atheist now). Even during my fundamentalist period (well before that), I could see that the major arguments coming out of the creationist side were bunkum.
Posted by: Eamon Knight | April 3, 2007 10:49 AM
I have a longer career in engineering than I like to admit, and a Ph.D. in computer science. No pseudo-science here, thank you.
Posted by: Russell | April 3, 2007 10:50 AM
I'm an MD and a researcher. I'm also an atheist and believe in evolution, because they are the best explanations of the available evidence. I believe in gravity and a sun-centered solar system with a (more or less) round earth for the same reasons. Actually, I believe more strongly in evolution than gravity. Frankly, some parts of the theory of gravity sound pretty shaky to me. How does gravity attract at a distance without a particle to carry the force? It's probably my lack of knowledge, not a problem with the theory, though: I spend a lot more time working with the results of evolution than thinking about esoteric points of graviational theory.
Posted by: Dianne | April 3, 2007 10:54 AM
Med student and genetics researcher... Can't believe that anyone who passed undegrad biology can believe in that crap. Religion can do terrible things, even to educated minds apparently.
Posted by: Leukocyte | April 3, 2007 10:55 AM
I'm an atheist and have a B.S. in Computer Science, for what it's worth (:
Oddly, I told a friend of mine that I'm an atheist and she didn't agree. "To be an atheist, you have to explicitly believe that God doesn't exist," she insisted. "You're just agnostic." I believe that it's foolish to hold an unsupported position, and I believe that there is no objective evidence to support God's existence. Further, I believe that all the subjective evidence I've seen is easily explainable through known, natural processes. Somehow, this isn't enough for her. Oh well; I don't much care which box she files me in (:
I started out as a Christian, and a young earth creationist. The first people who made me seriously consider that the world is more than 10,000 years old were the geology professor and Biblical interpretation teacher I had at Oral Roberts University, of all places. The former presented the physical evidence (and suggested I read Hugh Ross), and the latter provided a plausible interpretation of Genesis 1-2 that allows for an older universe. (It boiled down to: it's a poem, not a historical account.) Eventually, and for unrelated reasons, I left the religion altogether... but I'm surprised to have found traces of reason in such a place.
Posted by: Beren | April 3, 2007 10:55 AM
Hi, I'm Bob. I have a BME degree 1985, and even then I thought creatinoism/ID was bunk. As well as religious belief. My brother (scientist/game programmere) is also atheist and a-ID.
Another quiet voice in the crowd.
Posted by: Bob | April 3, 2007 10:56 AM
i'm a software engineer and i think creationism is Comedy Gold.
Posted by: cleek | April 3, 2007 10:57 AM
Dr. Dean Edell is a resolute defender of rational policies in health and science. He likes evidence-based medicine, as opposed to the new-age nonsense we get from many other high-profile media doctors and practitioners.
Posted by: Zeno | April 3, 2007 10:58 AM
Do software engineers count? I don't have an alphabet soup to put after my name (I dropped out of college after one year), but keeping up on real scientific research is something I do on a daily basis, and the battle against pseudoscience is something I have been involved in even in high school when Reagan was in office. And I am by no means a creationist. Hell, when I was in 2nd grade the ideas of evolution made perfect sense to me -- I had the usual 2nd grade fascination with dinosaurs then, and the idea that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago and there were fossils to dig up was way cooler than anything the boring old preacher could tell me on Sunday mornings.
Posted by: Brett | April 3, 2007 11:00 AM
One point that has always bothered me about creationist MDs, even more than the question of how do they cope with antibiotic resistance: How do they explain DNA? How do they account for polymorphisms? How do they deal with the obvious evidence of evolution within the human species that leads to sub-populations with characteristics adaptive in their native environment but maladaptive elsewhere (ie skin color, sickle trait, Rh factor, etc.)? But even moreso, if you've ever worked with DNA you know that it is almost impossible to keep the little @#^$@ from mutating. PCR reactions, for example, have known error rates and distinguishing between a true and false positive can be quite difficult (ie if you're amplifying for RAS mutations, there is a certain chance of introducing a RAS mutation during the amplification process). So if all species were created as they currently are, there must be an active force that keeps evolution from occurring as it would in the absence of such a force. Where's the evidence for said force? (Alternately, if you believe in "microevolution" but not "macroevolution", how do you keep the DNA from making that fatal jump to speciation?)
Posted by: Dianne | April 3, 2007 11:02 AM
I'm a electrical engineer, and while I'm also christian, science is based in reality and so far we haven't seen any magical events we haven't been able to ascribe some law to. The second we start believing there are things in this world that we will never be able to explain, then we might as well give up on science.
Posted by: Jerry | April 3, 2007 11:02 AM
My name is Chuck, and I am a systems engineer for one of the largest companies in the world. I consider myself a proud secular humanist, and think creationists are a bunch of terrified nutjobs. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and thus far, there is no evidence whatsoever.
Posted by: Chuck | April 3, 2007 11:05 AM
I have a B.S. and Ph.D. in bioengineering, and just hearing the words "creationism" and "intelligent design" makes me mad. Here's for evolution and all legitimate, properly conducted science.
Posted by: Adrian | April 3, 2007 11:05 AM
I'm a practising engineer with MA and MSc degrees in engineering and I don't believe in fairies of any sort.
Posted by: Millimeter Wave | April 3, 2007 11:13 AM
I'll proxy for my fiancee. She's a geotech engineer and does not seem to believe in irreducibly complex rock formations.
Posted by: Henry Clay | April 3, 2007 11:15 AM
I've got a PhD in Cybernetics (Computer Science meets Engineering meets Robots taking over the world), and am now doing post-doctoral work relating to pharmacy/neurobiology.
I'm also an atheist, and I actively fight against Creationism wherever I come across it, along with plenty of other pseudosciences. It also intensely annoys me that so many engineers fall into the "Well *I* couldn't have designed it..." mental trap.
Posted by: DrFrank | April 3, 2007 11:15 AM
In an office of around 20 engineers, there are only two of us non-creationist and the other guy recently removed his evolution fish from his car - I think they are getting to him...
Posted by: hans | April 3, 2007 11:16 AM
Clinical geneticist; dysmorphologist; atheist (ex-Christian). I give my medical students (Belfast) lectures containing evolutionary material, and I've just had some great feedback from our first-years (suck on *that*, Egnor!). I'm much encouraged by their willingness to learn. I also recently won a debate with a priest on the ethics of stem cells (I had lost the previous *2* encounters), so I'll say that medical students are getting smarter :-)
Posted by: Amenhotep | April 3, 2007 11:21 AM
I'm an electronic and software engineer with a B.S. in electronics. I've been a vocal and confirmed atheist since age 7 (escape from a catholic upbringing in the 1960s). I think creationism is utter rubbish.
Evolution has long been the best way to explain the world we inhabit. Unlike the creationist cretins, we're happy to admit that we still have things to learn and research.
Creationism just wants to stop people thinking about questions that the religions can't answer.
The other day, I asked a religious person why they don't believe in the tooth fairy or the easter bunny. Their reply was "that would be a silly superstition". When I then asked what the difference between those, creationism and genesis was, he got very heated and defensive, but didn't have an answer.
The wingnuts would like to launch another age of unreason. We must resist.
Posted by: Paul | April 3, 2007 11:22 AM
B.S. in Nuclear Engineering from the Missouri School of Mines and Metallurgy here. A short announcement:
1. Creationism is a sham.
2. Metaphysical Naturalism, specifically Carrier Naturalism, is the most reasonable world-view and best fits all available evidence.
3. Girls and booze are nice.
That is all...
Posted by: Puskara | April 3, 2007 11:24 AM
Hmm, been there, done that. My undergrad degree is Computer Science. But then, faintly echoing the late famous evolutionist John Maynard Smith who found his degree in aeronautical engineering led to a "boring" career, I moved to where the conceptual action was and did a grad degree in 'ethology' (evolutionary origins of animal behaviors). These concepts lead to far richer understandings of human nature than given by any spirit-became-flesh narrative.
Posted by: thwaite | April 3, 2007 11:25 AM
Example: my research colleague has an M.D. and a Ph.D. in public health... and is a Young Earth Creationist! Some professors here at this University signed the dissent from Darwinism petition! Idiots roam free!
Posted by: Rienk | April 3, 2007 11:27 AM
Mechanical Engineer, here. Finally admitted my atheism after having held on to the title of agnostic far longer than I should.
Posted by: Grimmstail | April 3, 2007 11:33 AM
Carrier Naturalism eh? - that's this guy, Richard Carrier? Looks interesting... I'm bemused that his discussion of his cover art doesn't address the remarkable similarity of his 'spacecraft' to some viruses...
Posted by: thwaite | April 3, 2007 11:35 AM
I'm a safety engineer finishing a Master's of Engineering. I deny creationism and all other supernatural, faith-before-evidence "explanations" for how the world works.
Thank you for starting this thread: my teeth gnash, gnash, gnash when I see the entirety of my discipline damned by a subset of arrogant idiots.
Posted by: Sanguinity | April 3, 2007 11:36 AM
Hi, I have a PhD in Chemical Engineering and I am an atheist and humanist, and I think that science is the path to a better understanding of ourselves and the world. Needless to add, I do not believe in Creationism or ID nonsense.
Posted by: John | April 3, 2007 11:41 AM
Project Steve comes to mind. I always love the short lists IDiots trump up as an appeal to authority, as if they think they can beat scientists (who deal daily in citing others who know what they're talking about) at their own game.
I like to cite that Project Steve list. Fun fact, Stephen Hawking was number 300 on the list! Or so, I could be off slightly.
Posted by: Brad S | April 3, 2007 11:42 AM
Maybe ya'll could straighten this arrogant twit
(mechanical engineer) out...
Posted by: slpage | April 3, 2007 11:43 AM
Chiming in on behalf of my Dad, a Civil Engineer out of the South Dakota School of Mines and Technology. He gave me me his copy of Ancestor's Tale and is sure I'll love it as much as he did. His interest in science and ability to think logically influenced my own interest in science. Guliuzza is no credit to the School of Mines, but my Dad sure is. BTW, the campus has a very nice museum, with great fossils, gems, and minerals. Go see it if you are in the neighborhood!
Posted by: ctenotrish | April 3, 2007 11:43 AM
I work for a non-creationist mechanical and software engineer, and am a future atheist non-creationist mechanical engineer.
Posted by: speedwell | April 3, 2007 11:43 AM
M.S. Mech Eng from the University of Florida here.
Q: How do you know god is a civil engineer?
A: Who else would run a waste pipeline through a recreational area.
Posted by: Mark | April 3, 2007 11:44 AM
I'm an engineer and most certainly an atheist. Always have been. From a proud family of atheists!
Posted by: Mark UK | April 3, 2007 11:45 AM
Putting in a good word for my brother-in-law too. He's an aerospace engineer and a Catholic, but not even slightly a creationist.
Posted by: Dianne | April 3, 2007 11:46 AM
hi, my name is dan. i am a PhD candidate in mechanical engineering at the university of maryland. i am a recovering catholic. i'm a big fan of thinking. and reason. and deduction. i consider myself an "applied physicist".
i believe creationism and IDism beliefs come quite simply from ignorance. not simply ignorance of a fact or two or a trend or two... but from the whole scientific process. sadly it seems more and more that those younger than i are coming out of school with an severe inability to critically think.
i think the growing numbers of myth-believers out there is in part due to more and more acceptance and adoption of the trend of "teaching to the test" because you don't have to actually *think* about what you've just read... but simply be able to regurgitate it on to a piece of paper... which is how so many people get degrees in fields they clearly needed to fake their way through to some extent.
i don't just blame schools for this. i blame parents.
Posted by: dan | April 3, 2007 11:47 AM
Although I suspect one guy I knew was a creationist, Caltech is not known as a hotbed of religious fundamentalism. I am a proud atheist and a retired professional mechanical engineer. So get Wilkins off my back!
Posted by: Richard Uhrich | April 3, 2007 11:47 AM
Hi, I'm a med student with less than a year left (and I get to work as a physician this summer). I'm glad to say that as far as I know, none of my course mates has said anything that would make me think anyone of them doubts evolution.
Posted by: Therese Norén | April 3, 2007 11:48 AM
I'm a BSE from an accredited Christian college and work as a software engineer. Thanks to scienceblogs and Panda's Thumb I've come to appreciate how my experience with designing technological systems corroborates with the way evolution "designs" biological systems. The "evidence" of "design" is evidence of evolution at work!
Posted by: Curt Rozeboom | April 3, 2007 11:49 AM
I have a PhD in electronic engineering and a BSc in computer science. I research the use of evolution and other bio-inspired themes in computer science. I am also a proud infidel!
Posted by: Simon | April 3, 2007 11:49 AM
Hello, I'm an anesthesiologist. I follow the evidence wherever it goes. Therefore, creationism and religion are not part of my worldview. Have a very nice day!
Posted by: JujuQuisp | April 3, 2007 11:52 AM
Do I get extra points if I never believed in the mystic mumbles for the 35 years before I became an engineer as well as the 25 years since then? For all that nontheists show such a miserably low % on census forms (only 25% here in Calgary) it seems that most of my engineering, science and medicine based friends are of that persuasion. I cannot think of ever hearing a pro-creationist viewpoint mentioned in any of the wide ranging discussions I've had with my professional buddies.
Posted by: Woodwose | April 3, 2007 11:53 AM
I have degrees in both engineering (chemical) and science (chemistry), and am not a creationist.
While we're shattering stereotypes, there's one person where I work who has a degree in microbiology ... and is a creationist.
Take that, "Salem hypothesis"!
Posted by: Rick @ shrimp and grits | April 3, 2007 11:53 AM
I have a BE and PhD in electrical engineering and I teach at the largest university in New Zealand. I am an atheist and wholeheartedly renounce my Roman Catholic upbringing. Many of my professorial colleagues are devout Christians, some with fundie credentials. It amazes me that they can be so blinkered, dismissive, irrational, one-eyed and bloody-minded when it comes to anything not related to their specialty areas.
OT: Why am I "ScienceBreath" given my engineering roots? In grad school I flatted with a couple of law-student friends. Whenever I tried to enlighten them about the workings of the physical world they would say "Fuck up, science breath." It was that kind of flat.
Posted by: ScienceBreath | April 3, 2007 11:53 AM
Canadian, Atheist, Physician
Posted by: Ha Milton | April 3, 2007 12:01 PM
I'm an electrical engineer with 25 years of experience; I have only a lowly B.S. in physics. Creationism and Intelligent Design are one of the tools used to keep the rabble in line and mega-churches raking in the big bucks. I guess it's easier to spend your life being told what to do and how to think.
One of my fellow EE's at my last job was an ardent ID'er, he didn't enjoy it at all when I pointed out his serious back pain was related to the really poor manner in which his back had been designed.
Secular humanism for me.
Posted by: 2 blocks from Rick Warren | April 3, 2007 12:02 PM
This is starting to sound like an AA meeting......
My name is Tony...
I have an undergraduate degree in Physics and have spent most of my career working as a semiconductor engineer. I maintain a healthy respect for the life sciences, and I recognize evolutionary biology as being one of most powerful tool for understanding the natural world.
I believe that any form of religious pseudo-science is detrimental to science education and should be kept out the classroom.
I don't believe a public classroom is the place to "teaching the controversy". If ID proponents think they have a valid point, they can submit their claims to a peer-reviewed journal just like the rest of us.
Posted by: Tony P | April 3, 2007 12:07 PM
I have a BS in Biomedical Engineering and am currently doing my PhD in the same subject. I firmly reject creationist and ID and I use evolution in my research all the time even though my research subject has no obvious connection to evolution. Many other people in my program, both grad students and professors, have also said they reject creationism and ID (I think the term one used was "crooks and illiterate idiots"). I have only met one person who has said that he accepts ID (a former MD, actually, although there are other former MD's who reject it) and none that accept creationism.
Posted by: TheBlackCat | April 3, 2007 12:14 PM
I'm a family doc doing non-clinical work in Pennsylvania and I deny the creationist spirit.
Posted by: Dr. Steve | April 3, 2007 12:18 PM
I have an M.Sc. in Information System Design and worked as a software engineer for many years, but a childhood fascination with dinosaurs and visits to the Natural History Museum in London inoculated me to fairy tales at an early age.
However, I should also fess up to having an undergraduate degree in History and Philosophy of Science, with an emphasis on 19th C biology, that leaves me dismayed at the willful ignorance that some would wish to perpetuate and perpetrate upon our children.
Posted by: Robert | April 3, 2007 12:19 PM
Greg House, M.D. is about as religious as a condom full of smegma, but unfortunately he and his irreverent diagnostic acumen are themselves mere products of "special creation."
Posted by: kemibe | April 3, 2007 12:20 PM
B.Sc. in electronic engineering. Finished most of an M.Sc. too before the whole Internet "thing" happened, and any geek who could even spell TCP/IP was made a salary offer no academic institution could match.
Though the Salem hypothesis seems to hold on them thar internets, my personal experience has been somewhat different: Virtually all of my engineering friends are quite openly secular. Moreover, these past 7 years I've been working in bioinformatics, shoulder-to-shoulder with actual, real, live biologists. And you know what they are like. :-)
The environment I grew up in conspired to keep me somewhat sheltered from radical religious and anti-science views, with the result that I never really defined myself in terms of belief or non-belief, even though I cannot remember ever having had any form of god-belief. However, the writings of PZ, Dawkins and Harris have recently persuaded me that there is indeed a culture war afoot, and a loss for secularism could have disastrous repercussions for all of humanity. Hence, I now openly classify myself as an atheist. Sometimes I even add "militant". So there.
Posted by: wjv | April 3, 2007 12:24 PM
My name is Steve. I'm an electrical engineer (BS). I don't believe in the supernatural. I think this makes me an atheist.
I was shocked to my boots a few years ago to find that a co-worker (BSEE) was in the ID camp. He's very rational and competent otherwise.
I also match up to secular humanism. Some (10-15?) years ago, there was an article in Time about people burning books in Tennesee. "What is so bad about secular humanists?" Time asks. "They believe in gun control, non-traditional roles for women and situational ethics". That was good enough for me, sign me up.
Steve
Posted by: Steve Smith | April 3, 2007 12:29 PM
My name is Frank, I have a BS in Computer Science, test spacecraft flight software, and am a member of the reality-based community.
Posted by: Salad Is Slaughter | April 3, 2007 12:30 PM
Hi, my name is Brian, I'm a software engineer/digital artist in the visual effects industry. Creationism is a load of mephitic bunk.
Posted by: Brian Gyss | April 3, 2007 12:36 PM
BS EE and MS Ag.E from the University of Missouri -- Most definately not a creationist nut job.
Posted by: No One of Consequence | April 3, 2007 12:39 PM
I have a B.S. in aerospace engineering. I've "believed in" evolution my whole life, with my acceptance only getting stronger as I've gotten older and actually studied the evidence. I take the reality-based approach to other questions about the universe, as well. I've recently denounced Christianity and become an atheist (probably in large part due to the whole ID movement making me go back and look at why it really was that I believed what I did).
Posted by: Fatboy | April 3, 2007 12:40 PM
My name is Andre, and I'm a mechanichal engineer finishing my masters in aeronautical engineering. I also have a soft spot for astronomy, and take it as a hobby.
I'm an atheist, rationalist, humanist an all that comes along that.
Down with the Salem hipothesys!
Posted by: Andre Izecson | April 3, 2007 12:42 PM
I'm Joshua Nicholson, B.S. in Electrical Engineering from Boston University, and I think evolution is bitchin'!
Posted by: Joshua | April 3, 2007 12:47 PM
Atheist software engineer/ex-game developer.
While I don't have the training to argue the subject of evolution in any detail, I do know that every creationist I have ever spoken with (or read from) relied on these rhetorical tools exclusively:
1. Circular reasoning
2. Reliance on authority
3. Grotesque misrepresentation of evolutionary theory
That's just pathetic. If that's your best shot, you lose.
Posted by: xebecs | April 3, 2007 12:49 PM
I'm a student, pursuing a B.Eng. in Biotechnology. I also live in Mexico, where being an atheist is... not cool. Also, some people doing my major are actually creationists. I'm not.
Posted by: N | April 3, 2007 12:52 PM
I'm like the wag above who admitted he had no "alphabet soup" to append to his name. The only appendage I can claim is an AB in physics, but I"ve been an atheist since high school more than half a century ago. As such I often point out that I have no proof for god's existence of non-existence--such "proof" for the supernatural is simply impossible--so I've long just asserted he/she/it doesn't exist and dared any who differ to demonstrate otherwise. None have taken me up on it.
In a related observation, I take issue with the casual description of many that they "believe" in evolution (some have done so in earlier comments in this thread). I've never believed in evolution. I accept it--because it's empirically supported by evidence, lots of it; ID/creationism is not and so cannot be accepted, only believed in. Beliefs IMHO are confined to intangibles and fantasies. The sooner we can eschew the use of "belief" in relation to science, the better off we'll all be. Oh, and other than my neighbors growing up in Texas, I first met creationists publicly when, as a science textbook editor/publisher in the 1960's, I did battle with them in the states of the old confederacy. Nothing changes under the sun except the face paint and the hair styles on one's antagonists.
Posted by: Keanus | April 3, 2007 12:54 PM
I'm a structural engineer, P Eng in Canada, C Eng in UK. I've been an atheist for 50 years, since age of 12, & never in that time have I had any wish or reason to think that their might be a theistic god. I accept that a deistic god is theoretically possible, but still goddam unlikely.
I think the evidence shows quite clearly that humanity would be better off, on balance, without superstitious beliefs.
Posted by: Richard Harris, FCD | April 3, 2007 12:54 PM
PZ,
Thanks for the mention!
Best Regards,
Jeb, FCD
Transcription Factor
Posted by: Jeb, FCD | April 3, 2007 12:58 PM
Burt Humburg, 2nd year resident in Internal Medicine and Panda's Thumb hanger-on. I have found that placement of confidence in evolution has yielded conceptual dividends, sufficient to justify a "belief" in evolution as solid and reliable as any belief in science.
BCH
Posted by: Burt Humburg | April 3, 2007 1:04 PM
/delurk
I am a degreed electrical engineer.
Speaking as an engineer, I believe that the creationists/idists are a bunch of science denying asshats who deserve constant public mockery and ridicule. They are attempting to undermine the teaching of science at all levels of our education system, thereby putting our nation in the unenviable position of being laughed at by the rest of the world as the 21st century progresses.
Why these idiots are paid the least bit of attention by anyone with two spare braincells to rub together, I'm not really sure.
Thanks for shining the light of scientific reason into their idiocy, PZ.
/relurk
Posted by: duquesne_pdx | April 3, 2007 1:05 PM
Hi, I'm Brian. I have a B.SC in Engineering with a major in mine engineering and soon to complete a Master's Degree in Mechanical Engineering. I started out my University career working towards a B.Sc. in Biology majoring in Ecology, but was then enticed by the Dark Side. After spending a number of years working in the mining industry I have changed careers and am now a research engineer. I see no basis of evidence for creationism, intelligent design creationism, christianity, islam, buddhism, flying spaghetti monsters, mythos (Greek or otherwise and yes that is redundant)... well you should get the picture.
I do, on the other hand, see a plethora of evidence for evolution and furthermore, a convergence of scientific evidence from across the various disciplines. Evolution is thoroughly supported by the major theories within all of the sciences. And as such it has a type of elegance that all of us scientist thrive to produce in our own work. It brings together complex fields of thought and physical data with such simplicity and efficacy in understanding our origins that it nurtures the rational mind.
Sorry, just trying to be eloquent, you know, like the theory. Unfortunately, it does not seem to work on the irrational mind.
Posted by: Brian | April 3, 2007 1:06 PM
I'm a Mechanical Engineer, and an atheist. I have seen too many intelligently designed machines fail to believe that the same could be the source of life in our universe.
Plus, what kind of intelligent designer puts a toxic waste disposal chute through a recreational area?
-Berlzebub
Posted by: Berlzebub | April 3, 2007 1:18 PM
PhD in genetics. I'm an ex-mormon atheist who thinks that creationism is crackpottery.
Posted by: Ros | April 3, 2007 1:21 PM
Hi I'm Chris, I'm a Professional Engineer residing in the state of Indiana. I am an atheist and I consider creationism to be bunk.
Posted by: commissarjs | April 3, 2007 1:23 PM
Hi, I'm Brock Tice. I have a BSE in Biomedical Engineering, and am about 60% done with my PhD in Biomedical Engineering at the Johns Hopkins University. I am an atheist, a naturalist, and a Bright.
Posted by: Brock Tice | April 3, 2007 1:31 PM
Hello, I'm Gordon from Ohio, a software engineer (MCIS), and an immunologist and molecular biologist (BS plus years of medical laboratory work). I'm a buddhist in the vajrayana tradition, which technically makes me a 'non-theist', and I regard all flavors of creationism and ID as thumb-sucking foolishness.
Posted by: clevo | April 3, 2007 1:37 PM
I have a B.S. in Electrical Engineering and a law degree and I think creationism is crazy talk.
Posted by: dynaboy | April 3, 2007 1:42 PM
I've posted this elsewhere previously, but it seems relevant here, so here I go again:
The first time I heard the ID argument was from a creationist friend. One day, after a tennis match, he pointed to car parked next to a tree and said something like, "See that tree and that car? Can't you tell that they were both designed?"
I have been a mechanical engineer for many years, mostly designing turbines. My reaction was that anyone who thought that was a convincing argument against evolution probably had never designed anything complex. Design work, like what I understand of evolution, contains a lot of trial-and-error, builds on previous designs incrementally, and is subject to survival in competitive marketplaces. I tried to explain this to my friend using the car as an example. We've all seen cars evolve in our lifetimes. Museums are full of extinct forms, like the Model T and the Edsel. They even have vestigial organs which have been adapted to new functions, such as cigarette lighters being used to power electronic equipment.
So my answer was, "No, it seems to me they both show evidence of evolution."
JV - B.S. Physics, Masters in Mechanical Engineering, secular humanist
Posted by: JimV | April 3, 2007 1:53 PM
/delurk
I'm Carolyn from Massachusetts. I have a BS in mechanical engineering, and am a couple of months away from an MS in same.
I think creationism (and its spit-polished cousin intelligent design) are ludicrous.
Posted by: Carolyn | April 3, 2007 1:54 PM
Since he's no longer around to do so, let me put in a word for my Dad, B.Sc. Mechanical Engineer, taught me most of the math I know, devout (as in, Mass every morning) Catholic, and firm believer in the theory of evolution.
Posted by: Gerard Harbison | April 3, 2007 1:56 PM
I have a BS in chemistry and a MS in Physics.
I'm an athiest now, but even in my youth as an Episcopalian I was always amazed that there were people stupid enough to swallow creationism.
Posted by: ZacharySmith | April 3, 2007 1:59 PM
I have an M.Sc. in engineering and I am not a creationist, nor have I ever in my life believed in god. I went on to get a Ph.D. in theoretical physics and am doing research in that field, but I wouldn't have been a creationist should I have stayed in engineerin