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PZ Myers is a biologist and associate professor at the University of Minnesota, Morris.
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Category: Religion • Weirdness
Posted on: May 21, 2007 2:00 AM, by PZ Myers
Hey, maybe we're making more progress than we ever imagined, if this poll from Christianity Today is any measure:
As a somewhat cynical realist, though, I'm more inclined to believe in badly designed polls and cunning rascals with a script than I am that subscribers to a Christian magazine suddenly became wise.
(via Sandwalk)
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Comments
You can't prove anything with polls, 63% of all people know that.
Posted by: Athiest smurf | May 21, 2007 2:34 AM
Hehe. I'd never do a thing like that. My main regret is that I'm not responsible for this particular example of tomfoolery.
But really, they're just asking for it. "Oooh, let's make a biased poll towards our target demographic and then publish the results a week later as though they meant something!"
C'mon. You just have to fuck with that.
Posted by: Dustin | May 21, 2007 2:39 AM
Something odd happened when I voted for 'the only rational outlook'. The category percentage went from about 40 to about 75% and the number of votes tripled.
Atheist conspiracy, of course!
Artificially inflate our numbers and leverage that into outsized influence in the minds of politicians... no, wait! That's been done...
Posted by: djlactin | May 21, 2007 2:41 AM
Another interesting observation: Almost nobody regards Atheism as a threat to Christianity.
Posted by: djlactin | May 21, 2007 2:42 AM
"I'm more inclined to believe in badly designed polls and cunning rascals"
Also see:
Ron Paul hordelings who swarm internet polls.
Firefly fans who do the same.
Posted by: Colugo | May 21, 2007 3:01 AM
Hey PZ, mind if you or the rest of the ScienceBlogs community address this article: http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,21764201-953,00.html
Thanks!
Posted by: Chipmunk | May 21, 2007 3:27 AM
And this gum really pinkens your teeth while you chew.
Posted by: ben | May 21, 2007 3:48 AM
What's disturbing is that in a previous poll 25% didn't think domestic violence was a 'biblical' justification for divorce!
Posted by: James Orpin | May 21, 2007 4:28 AM
Full set of articles here, chipmunk:
http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/186_10_210507/contents_210507_sup_fm.html
Pretty much rehash and review, indeed reviews of reviews, and one overall weakness is that "religion" or "spirituality" mean a lot of different things in the studies that are covered by these reviews.
On prayer and health they admit they've got nothing. On church attendance, someone should follow up this cited study
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12674817&dopt=Abstract
But the abstract which I'll copy here seems to suggest it's a matter of getting out of the house and doing something:
-----------------------
Am Psychol. 2003 Jan;58(1):36-52.
Religion and spirituality. Linkages to physical health.
Powell LH, Shahabi L, Thoresen CE.
Department of Preventive Medicine, Rush-Presbyterian-St. Luke's Medical Center, Suite 470, 1700 West Van Buren Street, Chicago, IL 60612, USA.
Evidence is presented that bears on 9 hypotheses about the link between religion or spirituality and mortality, morbidity, disability, or recovery from illness. In healthy participants, there is a strong, consistent, prospective, and often graded reduction in risk of mortality in church/service attenders. This reduction is approximately 25% after adjustment for confounders. Religion or spirituality protects against cardiovascular disease, largely mediated by the healthy lifestyle it encourages. Evidence fails to support a link between depth of religiousness and physical health. In patients, there are consistent failures to support the hypotheses that religion or spirituality slows the progression of cancer or improves recovery from acute illness but some evidence that religion or spirituality impedes recovery from acute illness. The authors conclude that church/service attendance protects healthy people against death. More methodologically sound studies are needed.
---------------------------
Speaking as a mere social scientist, it's totally plausible that believing something positive about the world and being able to articulate it is correlated with psychological well-being, and that active participation in a caring social community is good for your health.
Posted by: Atomic Dog | May 21, 2007 4:38 AM
If the results weren't quite so skewed (currently 97% as "only rational" - is poll live?), I'd be inclined to point out a worrying interpretation:
Christian's think that athiesm is the only rational outlook, but somehow they don't think that is a good thing (A bit like how science based only on observable evidence needs revamping).
Posted by: zayzayem | May 21, 2007 4:46 AM
For the Lord Hath said,
"Thou shalt not be rational,
'Cause then I'd be out of a job..."
--Book of Reason 3:14-159
Posted by: Voice O'Reason | May 21, 2007 6:30 AM
Of course we all know Satan made those folks at Christianity Today write that script.
Posted by: amph | May 21, 2007 6:37 AM
Something tells me that they'll probably decide not to publish this one.
Posted by: vjack | May 21, 2007 6:40 AM
Given that the pole had 83430 respondents, and the other pole on domestic violence and abandonment on the same page has only 1929 respondents, I'm inclined to think were swamped by about 81500 atheists. This would agree with the results of the pole (since the 3% who did not vote for "the only rational outlook" should number about 2000, with approx 81500 voting for "the only rational outlook".
Posted by: Joe Fitzsimons | May 21, 2007 6:59 AM
Thank you, thank you, thank you for pointing me to that site!!
It seems to be a front for a hard porn emporium, and I can hardly wait for the advertised "Live Passion Video" to arrive!! I'll be sure to let you know the minute it gets here...
Pharyngula: the site that provides for all your needs (nudge nudge).
Posted by: Ray | May 21, 2007 7:29 AM
Script or no script, /b/ invaded Christianity Today last night
Posted by: Drew Sehl | May 21, 2007 7:58 AM
Anthony Gottlieb's recent New Yorker review at http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/books/2007/05/21/070521crbo_books_gottlieb makes the point that numerically, atheists make up the world's fourth largest grouping.
Posted by: Jeremy Cherfas | May 21, 2007 8:03 AM
Given the state of the American health system, it isn't the least bit surprising that church membership extends your lifespan. Many churches, especially those with low-income members, do things like organise free clinics, or help raise money to pay for medical expenses. Loneliness and isolation are major problems for the elderly - many churches have people who visit homebound members.
My guess is that this isn't a function of religion at all, but rather, a function of community. Church communities create a social network in which it is normal for people to go out of their way for others. I believe that government, and not the church, should provide social services, but the truth is that they don't.
As for rationality - sure, religious belief isn't rational. But my church just provided us with the most beautiful 6th century Compline service, Gregorian chants, in Latin... something that beautiful doesn't have to be rational :)
Posted by: Ian | May 21, 2007 8:22 AM
#16: HEY! Someone's forgetting the first two rules. Hesh, now.
Posted by: grendelkhan | May 21, 2007 8:24 AM
'I can hardly wait for the advertised "Live Passion Video" to arrive!!' [Ray, post # 15]
Sorry, Ray, but it's better than twelve to seven that it's a snuff film, involving devices that the Romans used for execution.
Posted by: Elliott Grasett | May 21, 2007 9:32 AM
Religion or spirituality protects against cardiovascular disease...
Ah, but atheism promotes weeping, which is also very good for a person's health.
Also note that Jerry Falwell died at a young 73. He spent his entire life in Church.
Posted by: CalGeorge | May 21, 2007 9:36 AM
I was lurking on the forum that contributed to the script-bombing of that poll, (though, I contributed only my one, single vote), and the "only rational outlook" response was in the 20-30% range (don't remember where... want to say 27%) when it was initially posted.
The two explanations I favor to explain the (at least) 20% figure on what ought to be a very biased poll are 1) my favored forum was not first to crash the party, and/or 2) some christian respondents were thinking of "only rational outlook" as something more like "merely rational outlook."
Posted by: Dennis | May 21, 2007 9:38 AM
Great. These Christians are going to use these poll numbers to justify their already annoying persecution complex.
Posted by: Dan | May 21, 2007 10:23 AM
PROTIP: Whenever something like this happens, it's probably 4chan.
Posted by: Neito | May 21, 2007 10:36 AM
anonymous delivers
/b/
Posted by: /b/ | May 21, 2007 10:53 AM
We are Anonymous. We are Legion.
/b/ saves the day.
Posted by: whatgoeswhere? | May 21, 2007 11:03 AM
Yes, it was an exploit. Did it for the lulz.
To the previous fellows... Rules #1 and #2.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 21, 2007 11:06 AM
Anonymous strikes again.
Also, scripts.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 21, 2007 11:07 AM
Yes, it was an exploit. Did it for the lulz.
To the previous fellows... Rules #1 and #2.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 21, 2007 11:11 AM
Shut up /b/, you never done this, stop trying to steal Ebaums glory.
You aren't smart enough to have done this, you would have ruined it yourself by voting for others because you aren't a "legion" as you say.
Posted by: Ebaums speaker | May 21, 2007 11:11 AM
PROTIP: STOP TALKING ABOUT 4CHAN
wait... aw fuck.
Plus this guy stole my ipod. Fucking douche.
Posted by: Mitchell Henderson | May 21, 2007 11:12 AM
Haha, Ebaums strikes again! You're welcome science!
Posted by: Eric Baumen | May 21, 2007 11:13 AM
The previous four posters are likely 14 year olds. There's an internet community based around idiocy and rulelessness. Originally it was a community of intelligent people to unwind by intentionally acting like idiots for their own amusement, but recently it's become infested with actual immaturity.
However, it is common to ruin anything and everything that it comes across, this web-poll being no exception.
Don't be suprised if you hear anything about Hilary Clinton's ad campaign getting a suprising number of requests to use the theme song from the Fresh Prince of Bel Air as her campaign theme.
Posted by: !rjA0zcOQ96 | May 21, 2007 11:15 AM
# 25: rules one and two, come on now guys. Please let us respect each other and where we come from, okay? Don't do this to us.
Posted by: Nikki | May 21, 2007 11:15 AM
www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com www.Ebaumsworld.com
Posted by: Ebaumsworld rox | May 21, 2007 11:17 AM
I am very disappointed in you Ebaumsworld...
Posted by: Jesus | May 21, 2007 11:23 AM
Those devilish rascals at www.ebaumsworld.com's forum did it.
Posted by: Ihavenonametoday | May 21, 2007 11:26 AM
It was 4chan.org guys.
It was pretty funny tho
Posted by: LuXE | May 21, 2007 11:28 AM
#36
You don't exist. See if we care.
Some religious believers are just incredibly dumb and need to be laughed at sometimes.
Take http://www.fstdt.com/comments.asp?id=21411 as a great example.
Posted by: Hillary Clinton | May 21, 2007 11:28 AM
The raid was brought to you by:
http://img.4chan.org/b/imgboard.html
To /b/:
WHERE'S YOUR RULES 1 & 2 NAO????
Posted by: W.T. Snacks | May 21, 2007 11:29 AM
The raid was brought to you by:
http://img.4chan.org/b/imgboard.html
To /b/:
WHERE'S YOUR RULES 1 & 2 NAO????
Posted by: W.T. Snacks | May 21, 2007 11:31 AM
ebaumsworld did it
Posted by: eric | May 21, 2007 11:40 AM
/b/ striek
Posted by: jeu | May 21, 2007 11:49 AM
The poll results for "Atheism is..." are gone from the site. I guess they couldn't stomach the results.
Posted by: ordinarygirl | May 21, 2007 11:56 AM
Ebaumsworld? You mean that site that steals content and shows it unaccredited? Yeah, bunch of dumbasses.
Posted by: Rey Fox | May 21, 2007 12:01 PM
Hello, I'm here to tell you of my part regarding this poll-majority. I know for a fact that it wasn't done by any kind of script, but by a lot of intelligent humans, such as yourself.
We are not associated with any group, nor do we care what happens to either cause. We just think that christians are of unfit mind, since they adhere to something as vile and ludicrous as religion. And so we cast our votes.
All the best / Dr. Faust Baldhead, watcher of the four leaves.
Posted by: Dr. Faust Baldhead | May 21, 2007 12:06 PM
For anyone not familiar with 4chan, chances are that you don't want to click the above links. Most of the time, NSFW is putting it mildly.
Posted by: nobody | May 21, 2007 12:30 PM
Oh, jeez. Damn it, people, anonymous is named "anonymous" for a reason.
Pharyngula regulars, I urge to to listen to #47. This raid was performed by the reeking asshole of the internet. It's a horrible place, full of horrible people. You're thinking, "oh, it's not that bad"; it is. People are going to come whimpering back here, saying that they had no idea, because
The hive mind that infests that dark place would be at home among the Death Jockeys of The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect. Don't go there; you won't like what it turns you into.
Posted by: anonymous | May 21, 2007 2:32 PM
From the American Humanist Association:
"A February 9 thru 11, 2007, USA Today/Gallup Poll revealed that only 45 percent of Americans would be willing to vote for 'a generally well-qualified' atheist candidate for president from their own party."
Funny how 52% of the people wouldn't vote for someone they feel holds the "only rational outlook."
Posted by: Jackie | May 21, 2007 3:47 PM
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. People who post in /b/ should be summarily executed.
And people who link to it should be banned.
Posted by: Dustin | May 21, 2007 3:50 PM
Dustin, I think you mean B&. And then summarily V&.
Posted by: anonymous | May 21, 2007 4:02 PM
polls closed due to atheists
Posted by: anonymous | May 21, 2007 8:37 PM
which is worse, ebaum or /b/?
Posted by: cv | May 21, 2007 9:21 PM
#53 - if only they would mutually annihilate each other, the world would be a much better place. As it is, I wouldn't talk about worse. They've both got enough worse to go around.
Posted by: Antimatter Spork | May 21, 2007 10:04 PM
Ho! Chuckle!
They pulled the poll, eh? I couldn't find & put it to my navigational incompetence.
Someone is pissed. I think that #10 is durn close. The religos are about defining "reality" as "faith" and if something "rational" or "demonstrable" comes along it just has to be "athiest". But Satan's Brigade was there too so there is a War on Christ to be paid for "with your tithes & offerings to equip God's Army (TM) with the equipment for Ar-megiddo".
Posted by: Skeptic8 | May 22, 2007 12:50 AM
Did anyone else notice that the graph looks like a hand sideways, with a middle finger out?
Just saying...
:)
Posted by: secularizer | May 22, 2007 12:05 PM