…and this is a 
Telegraphic kookiness
Category: Creationism
Posted on: June 2, 2007 8:32 AM, by PZ Myers
Time for another edition of "I get email"! Below the fold you'll find a comprehensive example of the kind of exhortation I get all the time—this one is a long list of assertions that god is right, science is wrong, all transmitted in short sentences that aren't in any particular order.
No, I didn't reply to this one. He's got 41 numbered points that he claims refute evolution, everything from "male nipples arouse women" to claims that Jupiter couldn't form because gasses expand, and then there's Pascal's wager and lots of bible quotes. It's a very silly list, don't strain yourself over it.
Very important: Repent, Completely trust in God only and, Love Him with all of your heart. Evolutionism is wrong.
There is a section below with the title "Atheism and Evolutionism are WRONG."
All those who have sinned deserve to suffer in Hell forever. "Pride" is an example of a sin.
1. Repent (be truly sorry for your sins; beg for God's forgiveness; abandon sin; ask Him to help you stop sinning; and repent for His sake).
2. Completely trust in God only; do not trust in yourself.
3. Love the Lord with all of your heart.
The Son of God (the Lord Jesus Christ) suffered and died on the cross to pay for the sins of those who trust in Him. His blood can clean away our sins. He was buried for three days, then lived again. There is hope of eternal life and happiness for those who trust in God.
Your efforts and works cannot save you. Only God is truly righteous and good. Humans are totally corrupt, but thankfully God controls all things. Thank the Lord if He has saved you, and if His Spirit has given you the ability to trust in Him.
There is no better God than Him.
-----
Atheism and Evolutionism are wrong:
An atheist is a person who does not believe in God.
God is the Intelligent Creator of the Universe.
If you refuse to trust in God, it's not my loss.
1. Energy/matter cannot be created from nothing nor destroyed (completely annihilated) through natural methods.
2. The Universe cannot create itself. If it created itself, then anything can create itself; and the Universe can have a "Mind" of its own.
3. Fine-tuning of the Universe: 50 or more parameters/constants have been set by God for the Universe and life to exist.
4. The laws of physics do not order themselves. They have no goals.
5. No oscillating universe; no multiverse.
6. Universe moving towards entropy (or heat death). Therefore, the Universe is not eternal.
7. Planets do not form through natural methods.
8. Gases scatter/dissipate quickly. Therefore, Jupiter have been created.
9. Saturn has three rings. They have been beautifully set in place.
10. Quantized redshifts indicate that the Earth could be near the center of the Universe. This idea is anti-Big-Bang and supports the Bible.
11. The Earth is not millions of years old. Notes: Magnetic field decay; Archaeology; History, other "Time limiters." Ancient people were as smart as modern men. Evolutionists have no excuse.
DNA cannot exist in natural environments longer than 10,000 years; yet, DNA have been FOUND in Neanderthal bones, insects in amber, Dinosaur fossils, etc. A dinosaur fossil was discovered still having soft tissue and blood cells.
Other keywords: Squashed Polonium-210 halos, Orphan Polonium-218, Helium loss from zircon, Carbon-14 in deep geological strata.
12. Misplaced fossils; Wrong sequence of geological strata/layers; Polystrate fossils are enemies of Uniformitarianism and Evolution. Example: Fish fossils in the "Cambrian" strata.
13. Decay rates are not constant. Note: Even the speed of light is not constant especially since it can be strongly affected by gravity (such as that of a black hole).
As for radiometric dating methods: At least one of them showed that primate skull KNM-ER 1470 was "212-230 million years old." Even evolutionists rejected it.
Claystone dating using K-Ar in 1986: 135.2 ± 5.5 Million years old; Dating using Ar-Ar In 1991: 152.9 ± 1.2 Million years old. About "11 million years" of decay have occured in just 5 years.
Carbon-14 production rate exceeds decay by 30%. Thus, Earth's atmosphere is less than 30,000 years old.
14. NATURAL life can only come from life. Abiogenesis (or spontaneous generation) is impossible.
Keywords: Chirality, chemical stability, chemical reactivity, chemical selectivity.
15. The DNA double-helix, self-repair codes, self-checking system/ algorithms, structure, DNA language convention, irreducible cell complexity, and chromosome count are anti-evolution. Also, the DNA molecule stores its information in 3 dimensions, not linearly.
16. DNA of humans differ/vary by about 10-12% from each other. 50% of human DNA is identical to the DNA of a banana. Humans and apes have no common ancestor.
17. Common sense and science reveal the fact of "Intelligent Design." There are cells which are more complex than New York City or modern space shuttles. Also read Genesis chapter 3 in the Bible.
18. There is no real vestigial/useless organ. There is no junk DNA. Note: Males' nipples "arouse" women. The appendix is useful for the immune system.
19. Mutations are harmful, deadly, and destructive to genetic codes. Example: Cancer.
20. Natural selection and Sexual selection seem unable to eliminate destructive genetic codes. Natural Selection is conservative, not innovative.
21. The fossil record and the "Cambrian Explosion" reveal Creationism and the Global Flood, not evolution. Among all those TRILLIONS of fossils, there were NO "mice-bats" with one wing or two wings each having 25% bone structure. There were NO walking fishes.
22. The Lord gave humans a conscience, morals, and advanced intelligence.
23. Strong evidence of a Global Flood in the past. This fact supports the Bible. Geologic layers were formed quickly and catastrophically. Notes: Hydro-plate theory, Carbon-14 disequilibrium, Rapid sedimentary burial of fossils (including WELL-PRESERVED PLANTS), etc.
24. No historical record gives clues about "evolution."
25. Scientists can use false or "biased" data. Examples: Piltdown man deception, Lucy mistake, Archaeopteryx mistake, Peppered moth blunder and fraud. Even Christians make mistakes. Trust in the Creator of the Universe instead.
Facts: Lucy was 100% chimpanzee; Rainforest chimpanzees spend most of their time walking upright; the theory about "Platyops" is dangerous to evolutionists.
26. Evolution is science fiction (a myth). It is similar to the story of the Centaurs (horse-men) and Mermaids (fish-women). I don't believe in Centaurs and Mermaids.
27. Philosophers love wisdom. But, only God is truly wise. Atheists are not philosophers. They are not free-thinkers. A fool is a person who does not trust in the Creator of the Universe.
28. Science is closely related to knowledge or information. These things are useless if there is no God. True scientists trust in the Creator of the Universe. Examples: Newton, Pasteur, Linnaeus, Faraday, Pascal, Kelvin, Maxwell, Kepler, etc.
29. Atheism or evolution does not provide a solid foundation for morality. If there is no God, there is no good nor evil.
30. Evolution is a myth. Even if it is true, there are evolutionists who believe in God. Atheists have no excuse.
31. Every time atheists and evolutionists cannot answer a valid question, they say, "It's an Unexplained Mystery." Thus, they have blind faith. Instead of trusting in God, they trust in false science.
32. Evolutionistic experiments with fruit flies failed to produce "something else" than a fruit fly. It has been estimated that trillions of generations of these fruit flies have been sacrificed for the evolution myth.
33. Darwinian researchers accept that "Mitochondrial Eve" (also known as "African Eve") probably existed 6,000 years ago. All humans seem to have descended from this "Eve" and her male partner. This idea supports the Bible.
34. Stars can THEORETICALLY form through natural processes ONLY IF there is enough mass, a strong enough gravitational force, and an "igniter." The igniter is unknown or not available. The planet Jupiter is composed mostly of gases, but it can never be a star.
35. Problems with the Big Bang theory: Origin of matter, Black Hole (or gravitational force) dilemma, Explosions do not produce order, Quantized redshifts, Lack of antimatter, Missing neutrinos, etc.
36. Evolutionism has several ridiculous ideas. Examples: Humans and apes have a common ancestor or humans descended from apes/fishes; fishes evolved into walking reptiles; reptiles to mammals or birds; mice to bats; lizards to dinosaurs; dogs to dolphins to whales; etc.
37. The studies done by Creationist Scientists regarding parasitic schistosomes reveal the possibility that there was a perfect environment in the past where these parasites were NOT harmful to their host(s). Rather, there was a mutualistic (friendly) relationship.
After this perfect environment has been destroyed, the parasites have begun invading the wrong hosts, thereby producing diseases. Such findings support the Creation account of Genesis chapters 1 to 3.
38. Evolutionists claim that there were millions of years of suffering, misery, death, predatorism, and trials-and-errors.
The perfect and kind Christian God NEVER used evolution to create. He only permitted suffering and death to exist after Adam and Eve have rebelled (sinned) against Him.
39. The Solar System is NOT billions of years old. In fact, the Sun is most probably less than 7,000 years old. Keywords: faint Sun paradox, fundamental oscillation of the Sun, young homogeneous Sun, low neutrino flux of the Sun, Lithium and Beryllium abundance in the Sun, Sun's rapid temperature changes.
40. Our God is Master and Lord over science.
41. All those who have sinned deserve to suffer in Hell forever. If God is real, atheism loses. If God is not real, atheism still loses since all humans will still die.
More in these resource sites:
http://www.icr.org
http://www.christiananswers.net
http://www.allaboutcreation.org
http://www.answersingenesis.org
http://www.cosmicfingerprints.com
http://www.halos.comConclusion:
God is the Intelligent Creator of the Universe, and He exists.
The Big Bang never happened.
The Solar System is obviously NOT billions of years old.
The Earth is less than 20,000 years old.
Natural life only comes from life. There was no spontaneous generation (abiogenesis).
Evolution never happened, and Evolution is impossible.
The Creation and Global Flood were real.
If you refuse to accept the truth, it's not my loss. You have been given a chance. Trust in the Creator of the Universe. There are only two options: 1) Ignorance + Eternal suffering, and 2) Eternal life + joy.
-----
Notes for Jews:
Your Messiah (Saviour) has arrived over 2,000 years ago: He is the Son of God who became a man (while still being God), suffered and died on the cross, and lived again from the dead; was prophesied in Isaiah 53, and in the book of Daniel.
-----
Notes for Christians:
1. Don't waste your time with those who don't want to trust in God. It is enough that we warn them only ONCE. If they refuse to repent, it's because the Lord did not transform their "hearts." There are millions of people who have not yet heard about the Lord Jesus Christ.
2. You are not required to make donations nor any service to your church. "Tithes" were for the Levites. Numbers 18:24. God does not need our help, but you are encouraged to serve. Also, please read Colossians 2:16-17. Serve the Lord with joy and gladness.
3. I recommend the Authorized King James Version of the Bible. It has prevailed/won over false science (such as evolutionism); crushed the opposers; changed the hearts of many; revealed truths (including future events) from God.
There are people who claim that the Bible has "errors." Note: The Bible is a guide. The interpretation(s), understanding, wisdom, and faith come from God.
4. Salvation cannot be lost. Fact: Our God does not make mistakes. If you sin, He will discipline you. Hebrews 13.
5. Hell is eternal. Isaiah 66:24; Matthew 25:41. The more sins a person does, the greater his suffering: Luke 12:47-48.
6. Faith is a gift of God. You have nothing to be proud of. Ephesians 2:8-9.
7. Live by faith. Don't be too strict with the law.
8. Interesting topics:
Sovereignty of God - The Lord rules over all. He follows His own plans.
Characteristics of God: Omnipotence, Omniscience, Omnipresence, Spirit, Triune, Self-existent, Eternal, Immutable, Holy, Truthful, Loving, Just, Merciful.
Trinity: There is only one God, and God has three persons: Father, Son, and Spirit of God.
Total depravity - Humans are totally corrupt.
Unconditional Election - Before God created the Universe, He has chosen those whom He will save.
Particular Redemption - The Lord Jesus Christ died for those who trust in Him.
Irresistible Grace - All those who were chosen will be saved at the appointed time(s).
Perseverance of the saints - Because of God's help, those who trust in Him will continue for all eternity.
Elements of human nature - Body and spirit.
New Birth - the Spirit of God transforms those who trust in Him.
Resource site: http://www.monergism.com
-----
If you accuse me of "lying, hypocrisy, etc.," I'm not affected with your accusations. The Lord knows my intentions.
About the atheist's "Invisible Pink Unicorn:" if she did not create the Universe, then it is not important to me if she exists or not.
Repent, then trust in the Son of God: The Lord Jesus Christ. He is THE WAY, THE TRUTH, and THE LIFE. No man comes unto the Father except through Him.
Please share this article for God's glory.
Well, I'm sharing it because it shows religious kooks to be very silly people, so I guess we're both happy.
Comments
The earth is 20,00o years old and the sun is 7,000 years old? Hmmm... I'd say the beginning was miserable here. Anyway, I'm convinced.
Posted by: Mark UK | June 2, 2007 8:38 AM
Wait, so they only have to warn us once? Is that collectively or individually? If they warn more than once can I claim a refund of the seconds I lost and/or wear and tear on my senses?
Posted by: Crus, UK | June 2, 2007 8:42 AM
Delusion is a self-reinforcing process isn't it?
Momma says, "Stupid is, is stupid does."
OEJ
Posted by: One Eyed Jack | June 2, 2007 8:47 AM
Don't these kooks bore you to death? Their "arguments" are so uninspired. I almost can't believe that they are still dragging the rotten cadaver that is old-school, young-earth-Creationism along with them.
After all these years... It's so pathetic.
But I always love when they are engaged in argument. How 'bout responding to him and posting his response, PZ?
Posted by: DCP | June 2, 2007 8:59 AM
Um...hang on...The Lord did not change my heart therefore...that is MY fault.
Posted by: Cynicalbrit | June 2, 2007 9:12 AM
"Notes for Jews"!?
This is too funny.
Posted by: frodo | June 2, 2007 9:16 AM
My wife (Geekymom) says that "male nipples do not arouse me". Therefore, evolution is proved true. QED.
Posted by: Whimsical Monkey | June 2, 2007 9:19 AM
Only 41? I got to about 8 and that was enough.
I see your still going well over at the Indy Star or Tribune or whatever it's called OEJ.
Posted by: Wobert | June 2, 2007 9:21 AM
Oh no! PZ, what have you done? I've never been exposed to such a concentration of insupportable nonsense before. Head getting light ... blood draining ... neurons dying ... dogma seeping in ... Aaarrghhhh ..... PZ, have you heard the good news of the Lord?
Posted by: Ex-drone | June 2, 2007 9:22 AM
Ow, my brain! I'm not asking for cogency from my kooks, but there ought to be at least a minimum of coherence.
My favorite parts were when, between bullet points, he'd just start listing "keywords". It's either science journal mimicry (where key search words are often listed) or simply that he feels that no explanation is needed for the evolution-withering attack of "squashed Polonium-210 halo".
P.S. Poor centaurs and mer-folk.
Posted by: Diego | June 2, 2007 9:25 AM
Once upon a time a wise and loving god made creatures with sophisticated brains and innate curiosity but told them not to acquire knowledge. They could not resist being inquisitive and started to acquire some knowledge. For this transgression, this wise and loving creator had a real hissy fit and condemned his perfect creations and all their offspring forever to imperfection, pain, suffering, and threats. However as a consolation the wise , all-knowing, all-loving god gave some a way out if they they were lucky enough to be born in Roman dominated lands so to speak. But even they had to die first to receive the salvation.
Frankly that resume, god's, does not impress me positively. But that's just me -- a stupid atheist who cannot see the truth and logic in all this. Oh weeelllll.... shame on me. Now let me rest my feeble brain.
Posted by: ConcernedJoe | June 2, 2007 9:29 AM
Posted by: Oh, fishy, fishy, fishy, fish! | June 2, 2007 9:33 AM
it was pretty damn funny and got funnier the further i went. thanks for a good chuckle this morning. the only strain i suffered was from laughing so damn hard:)
Posted by: dr.filbert | June 2, 2007 9:41 AM
"41. All those who have sinned deserve to suffer in Hell forever. If God is real, atheism loses. If God is not real, atheism still loses since all humans will still die."
Does this make anyone else think of Leela's old karate teacher in Futurama? "You do not have the will of a warrior, because you are a girl, so I win by default. Try again? You lose! Rematch? I win again! Haha!"
Posted by: JD | June 2, 2007 9:45 AM
I thought Jesus of Nazareth was "tombed" rather than "buried"?
Posted by: Bunjo | June 2, 2007 9:49 AM
Cynicalbrit: you stole my point!
Looks like, in the words of Bill Hicks in the aforeposted video, God is "fuckin' with our heads".
Posted by: Gene | June 2, 2007 9:54 AM
Quick! Somebody flip the switch that turns his brain back on!
He's leaking stupidity!
Posted by: CalGeorge | June 2, 2007 10:08 AM
What, male nipples arouse women ? Who knew? So the old "No shoes no shirt no service" ? turns out to be wrong, after all.
And here's my favorite: "DNA of humans differ/vary by about 10-12% from each other. 50% of human DNA is identical to the DNA of a banana. Humans and apes have no common ancestor." This logic is just overwhelming, but methinks some members of our species do have their fair share of banana genes.
Posted by: Umilik | June 2, 2007 10:21 AM
It's not as good as the creationist who almost found the sun, but it's still pretty good.
Posted by: MaxPolun | June 2, 2007 10:27 AM
About the atheist's "Invisible Pink Unicorn:" if she did not create the Universe, then it is not important to me if she exists or not.
Hah! That's what he thinks!
Posted by: chris y | June 2, 2007 10:35 AM
I guess that God has simply not deigned to provide me with sufficient Grace to accept His Holy Word. Since my lack is a matter of His Divine Will, I suppose His Will is that I should perish in Hell with all the rest of those who put their faith in Evolutionism.
EVOLUTIONISM? nah, if anything I'm a Pastafarian! Once again some idiot has to put EVERYTHING down to religion. When will they get the clue: SCIENCE IS NOT RELIGION AND RELIGION IS NOT SCIENCE! We need to start tattooing it on their foreheads or something.
Posted by: dorid | June 2, 2007 10:35 AM
Ouch. The really painful thing is just how many of these people are just not very bright, but seem to think they are...
It is one major condemnation of fundamentalist religion, that it relies on the existance of stupid people, and praises them for maintaining their ignorance.
Posted by: Luna_the_cat | June 2, 2007 10:54 AM
ConcernedJoe, you've got it right. So did Mark Twain. "God punished us and our blameless descendents for our acting as he made us - WTF!?" (Note clever use of interrobang for punctuation: there ought to be a special key combination for overlaid "!" and "?" marks.)
Posted by: Monado | June 2, 2007 10:55 AM
Moses was a sock-puppet for the priestly classes. His message: "Obey the rules. Send money (tithes & sacrifices [which supplied the priests with food]).
Posted by: Monado | June 2, 2007 11:02 AM
"If God is real, atheism loses. If God is not real, atheism still loses since all humans will still die."
The way I see it, if there is no god, no one wins. Therefore no one really loses.
Posted by: DutchVigilante | June 2, 2007 11:16 AM
About the atheist's "Invisible Pink Unicorn:" if she did not create the Universe, then it is not important to me if she exists or not.
And the same to you concerning your invisible sky-daddy...
Thanks for my one-time warning, please inform all other crazies of the Christian persuasion to leave me alone from now on.
Posted by: Jeff | June 2, 2007 11:20 AM
>>1. Don't waste your time with those who don't want to trust in God. It is enough that we warn them only ONCE.
Woohoo! Does this mean I can finally get some piece and quiet on the plane without some born again "witnessing" to me from the seat next to me?
Posted by: yoshi | June 2, 2007 11:22 AM
You sure this isn't a joke? The pink unicorn thing seems pretty intentionally silly. My favorite is the "fruit fly holocaust."
Posted by: Ric | June 2, 2007 11:33 AM
I think my IQ just went down a few notches... And, the Invisible Pink Unicorn DID create the universe! She told me so in my organ that pumps blood.
Posted by: Anatoly | June 2, 2007 11:34 AM
Boy, is he in for a surprise when he really loses by not being eaten first. Cthulhu f'taghn! or whatever that phrase is.
Posted by: Bronze Dog | June 2, 2007 11:37 AM
Wow. The sender has managed to condense all of the main arguments against evolution, modern cosmology, humanism AND Judaism all into one list.
Too bad the arguments have no basis in fact.
Posted by: wheatdogg | June 2, 2007 11:41 AM
...
...
Just by the by, this sort of thing is why I don't agree that atheists need to read and understand the entire Bible in order to justify or defend being atheists. There's a near-infinite amount of this crap out there, and the godders generate more of it all the time.
Just look at all this brainless shit! It would take a week to properly reply to it, point by point, and when you did, you can tell by what he writes that this dullard isn't even capable of listening.
Other thoughts: I'm asking myself: If this guy was a landlord, would he rent a house to an atheist? If he was an employer, would he give a job to an atheist? If he was on a university selection committee, would he admit an atheist to college?
I'm guessing: Nope, nope, nope.
On the other hand, if he was a cop, would he be harder on an atheist in a traffic stop than someone who went to his church? If he was a judge, would he be tougher on an atheist in court than, say, a Baptist? If he was a teacher, would he punish his atheist students with especially critical grading and oversight? If he was a parent, would he try to break up his daughter and her atheist boyfriend?
Again, guessing: Yep, yep, yep and oh, yeah.
It's so important to know, this guy says it TWICE. Yet I think this is one of the nastiest things you could possibly say to anyone - or believe about yourself and your loved ones. Talk about self-esteem issues! Once you convinced your son, daughter or neighbor of THIS - "You're disgusting, worthless, full of evil." - and then laid out an impossible gauntlet of slavish repentance and contrition for them to follow, so that they felt even MORE worthless and unlovable, a great deal of destructive behavior becomes not just possible, but extremely likely.
Suddenly I think I understand why the kids of preachers get so wild. If their own mom and dad tells them they're evil and going to hell, they have no choice but to believe it, and everything else just follows naturally. "If I'm going to hell anyway ..." or more likely "My daddy says I'm a sinner, I'd better act like it."
Hey, how does he know the Invisible Pink Unicorn is a female?
I could never get close enough to tell.
...
...
Posted by: Hank Fox | June 2, 2007 11:46 AM
It's a shame he stopped at 41. Had he continued just a little further he would've found the answer to every question.
Posted by: The Science Pundit | June 2, 2007 12:01 PM
Actually, that seems pretty standard fare for most of the kook theists I've talked to. It's a pretty standard reaction to having the absurdity of their beliefs pointed out. "True, there's as much proof for the invisible pink unicorn, but she didn't create the Universe." That kind of reasoning goes back to St. Anselm: when a critic (I don't remember who) used his ontological proof to prove the existence of the perfect island, Anselm's retort was to say that the ontological proof only works for God. It was lame back then, and it's still lame today.
Posted by: The Science Pundit | June 2, 2007 12:12 PM
Unconditional Election - Before God created the Universe, He has chosen those whom He will save.
Only God is truly righteous and good.
There is no better God than Him.
I think the contradiction here is more than obvious to everyone here. This guy lives in total cognitive dissonance.
Thank the Lord if He has saved you, and if His Spirit has given you the ability to trust in Him.
The perfect and kind Christian God NEVER used evolution to create. He only permitted suffering and death to exist after Adam and Eve have rebelled (sinned) against Him.
So the perfect and kind Christian God specifically set up suffering and death for all organisms on earth because two of his creations did something they didn't understand was wrong.
Posted by: TheBlackCat | June 2, 2007 12:13 PM
Just imagine you had to deal with somebody like that on a regular basis, face to face...
So many misconceptions and total BS roled into a tasty burrito of ignorant self-righteous non-sequiturs... hmmm, tasty. But who am I to judge, I am corrupt and evil by default, and my "accusations" won't be able dent his impregnable armour, as I am just a sinner who deserves to be broiled to a crispy golden-brown in the furnaces of that place where all of us Germans go.... engineering school.
But, seriously, this guy needs therapy.
Posted by: TheJerrylander | June 2, 2007 12:22 PM
I have discovered the problem with creationists: they lack vision.
Fuck Jupiter, what about the Sun?
Posted by: Melanie S. | June 2, 2007 12:24 PM
Anyone interested in the thinking processes of YECs might migrate over to Jason Rosenhouses' blog to observe a whackjob named Jon S. Link given below. These clowns are certainly very good at producing arguments from the AIG website.
http://scienceblogs.com/evolutionblog/2007/05/the_times_on_the_creation_muse.php#comments
Posted by: SLC | June 2, 2007 12:38 PM
Re #37
I really don't believe they understand that the sun is a big flaming ball of gas.
It is a light placed in the sky on the fouth day. That one always made me wonder what was setting and dawning the first 3 days.
(by flaming I mean thermo-"nucular" fusion reactions)
Posted by: Don Smith, FCD | June 2, 2007 12:38 PM
So God DOES exist!
Explosions do not produce order
There was an article containing this silly analogy in "The Good News", a Christian paper posted through my door recently. I want to grab the writer by the shoulders and shake him!
SA
Posted by: The Strong Atheist | June 2, 2007 12:39 PM
Why would god have to "help" you not to sin. If god doesn't want you to sin, shouldn't his ultimate uber god skills simply make you incapable of it?
Apparently god has no problem making people stupid.
Posted by: Evolving Squid | June 2, 2007 12:41 PM
So, uh, if the doctrine of Unconditional Election is true, and it doesn't matter what we do, if we're among the Elect we get to go to heaven in this guy's cosmology, why in the name of anything should we pay any attention to his feeble evangelisation attempt? I mean, either we're the Elect or we're not, and nothing we can do can change that, right? What a frickin' sucker bet...
*chuckle*
Posted by: Interrobang | June 2, 2007 12:42 PM
Surely the only response the email merits is "No."
Posted by: Joe Fitzsimons | June 2, 2007 12:49 PM
Posted by: Alex, FCD | June 2, 2007 12:51 PM
Behe sums it up nicely here:
http://thestubborncurmudgeon.blogspot.com
Posted by: John Danley | June 2, 2007 12:58 PM
Where do these guys get their "facts?" They are pretty kookoo-bananas. I do not understand "male nipples arouse females" as proof one way or another of evolution. Is he arguing against vestigial parts? Perhaps he can explain wisdom teeth and the coccyx.
Posted by: Unstable Isotope | June 2, 2007 12:58 PM
1. Don't waste your time with those who don't want to trust in God. It is enough that we warn them only ONCE.
Now we're talkin'.
Posted by: jimmiraybob | June 2, 2007 12:59 PM
"and repent for His sake"
God serves sake? Hmm, must be a pretty fine one then!
Can I have a cup?
Posted by: Christophe Thill | June 2, 2007 1:07 PM
I got as far as, "Pride" is an example of a sin, and my irony meter exploded, and I had to run to the emergency eyewash station.
Posted by: Paul | June 2, 2007 1:07 PM
Posted by: Alex, FCD | June 2, 2007 1:13 PM
I believe he HAD to stop at 41, once you get into the neighborhood of 42-43 you reach maximum stupidity. Much like the critical mass of an atomic bomb, he would have detonated in a massive explosion of stupid and taken out a few hundred square miles of countryside around him. Really, his stopping, was a public service, he would have listed it as further proof of the goodness of his God, but that would have sparked the detonation and made the point moot. I believe he is still thinking about that one, and all three of his brain cells hurt...
Posted by: dogmeatib | June 2, 2007 1:19 PM
You know, we could ask PZ to publish the guy's email address so that we could all spam him with a copy of his own email, plus all of our responses :-)
Posted by: demallien | June 2, 2007 1:25 PM
Unconditional Election - Before God created the Universe, He has chosen those whom He will save.
` So, basically, the hell-bound heathens have been chosen and therefore can't change. So why send this email around?
Posted by: S E E Quine | June 2, 2007 1:25 PM
saturn only has THREE rings?
BWA HA HA HA HA HA!
Posted by: jenni | June 2, 2007 1:29 PM
PZ, I really wish you'd ignore the obviously insane. Being psychotic is no fun. Besides, there's no sport in shooting them down, is there? Fish in a barrel and all that.
Posted by: C.W. | June 2, 2007 1:41 PM
Humans are totally corrupt, but thankfully God controls all things.
But if God controls all things, doesn't that mean he built humans to be totally corrupt or is causing them to be totally corrupt as a result of his control?
Posted by: viggen | June 2, 2007 1:48 PM
#49:
That's the thing about Fundies, though. Words mean different things. 'Pride' almost invariably means not believing in God. Not, you know, what Pride really means.
Posted by: Brendan S | June 2, 2007 1:57 PM
I think PZ just posts this stuff to amuse us and show us the ignorance and foolishness we're up againts.
The gas expands argument is hysterical. So god's force field keeps all the gases on a planet? what?
Ho did these people function?
Posted by: Steve_C | June 2, 2007 2:05 PM
This has to be my favorite...
"Unconditional Election - Before God created the Universe, He has chosen those whom He will save."
Well, this is like the lottery innit? I mean how are we supposed to know if we are the chosen saved ones? If we're not the prechosen (jury tampering) whats the fracking point?
I give up, I am gonna go have hot wild willy nilly sex and make the mrs. call gods name....
Posted by: Firemancarl | June 2, 2007 2:06 PM
This person is obviously not sane. Such a shame
Posted by: Taylor Murphy | June 2, 2007 2:07 PM
That was a total mess. The author is blind to the fact he/she would incite violence in the name of his/her benevolent (non-violent) God for the sake of altering every human to fit that uniform religious mold, even though every human was ostensibly created to spec by said God who is infallible and in perfect control.
The only message I get from this is that this person is incapable of accepting the perfect works of their infallible God since they are endeavoring so stridiently to change those works.
Posted by: viggen | June 2, 2007 2:08 PM
Tsk, tsk. Of course they didn't understand it was wrong before they committed the sin. But once they took that bite of the fruit from the tree of knowledge, they understood perfecty well what they had done and why they and the rest of creation needed to be punished for it. Do you now see the error in your thinking?
This reminds me of the novel 1984 where the government goes to all the trouble and expense of brainwashing the narrator into an obedient little drone: a party man who understands that he must be executed for his past transgressions and happily gives himself to the firing squad.
Posted by: The Science Pundit | June 2, 2007 2:16 PM
Monado,
Narcissistic personality disorder? (see also: Exodus 10:1). But then the books of Moses weren't intended to be read literally. I don't know the first thing about literature, but the use of repetition as a storytelling device in both Exodus and Numbers is glaringly obvious. (Assuming you can make it more that a couple of chapters into Numbers. What a slog that was.) Deciphering the point of the stories would probably take some knowledge of early Jewish history and politics; not something I'm familiar with. And probably not something a fundamentalist would be familiar with either.
Posted by: Andrew Wade | June 2, 2007 2:18 PM
"[...]all transmitted in short sentences that aren't in any particular order."
Maybe God wrote it.
Posted by: Numad | June 2, 2007 2:25 PM
*shudder* I don't know how anyone can read this inane drivle
Posted by: matthew | June 2, 2007 2:29 PM
#2, the argument that c is not a constant near black holes, now that was quite original. (And completely wrong, you get frequency change, not speed change, sheesh.)
Posted by: Nix | June 2, 2007 2:48 PM
Now I won't have to go to the movies, 'cause this will entertain me all weekend. I think he had to stop at 41 because everyone *knows* the real meaning of the universe is 42...?
Funny, I didn't know the bible said be fruitful and spam, but the same list showed up on several hundred google groups.
Posted by: tourettist | June 2, 2007 3:26 PM
Love this stuff! Who knew that gravity affected the speed of light, rather than just the path of light?
This is gourmet woo-woo.
Posted by: Ted | June 2, 2007 3:27 PM
Um, gravity wells have a time dilation associated with them. It changes more than the frequency of light, at least from the perspective of an outside observer.
Posted by: Caledonian | June 2, 2007 3:32 PM
Tip of hat to The Science Pundit.
Posted by: tourettist | June 2, 2007 3:35 PM
There is no better God than Him.
Nah, there are plenty of better gods. Zeus comes to mind, he at least gets laid.
As for the age of the sun, of course it's only 7000 years old. How long do you darn atheists think that a ball of coal that size can last?
Posted by: mena | June 2, 2007 3:47 PM
this person has perfected stupidity and let it go to seed. I only hope he has a total crop failure
Posted by: Jiim | June 2, 2007 4:20 PM
"Even Christians can make mistakes."
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA. No shit.
Posted by: Buffybot | June 2, 2007 4:30 PM
I've never seen so many compact self-defeating arguments. Individual sentences even seem to contradict themselves.
As a physics major, I wept for about 1/3 of the points. As an evolutionary biology enthusiast, I wept for another 1/3 of the points. As a sane person, I wept for them all.
Posted by: Mike Saelim | June 2, 2007 4:41 PM
I've never seen so many compactly self-defeating statements in one place before. Parts of individual sentences seem to contradict each other. I'd list a point-by-point breakdown and refutation of all the physics points and what he attempts to imply by them, but it's not like it would lend us any further help in our case.
As a physics major, I wept for 1/3 of the points. As an evolutionary biology enthusiast, I wept for another 1/3 of the points. As a sane person, I wept for them all.
Posted by: Mike Saelim | June 2, 2007 4:52 PM
Uh, since when are the ten fossilized Archaeopteryx "mistakes"? There was one group in like the 80's that said two of the specimens were forged, and no one took them seriously anyway. No knocking my favorite prehistoric animal, dude. Not cool.
I love how he specifies that centaurs are "horse-men" and mermaids are "fish-women". Like you're going to be all, whoa, what is this "mermaid" of which you speak? I have never seen a Disney movie!
Man, I've been warned about a million times. I wish it was enough for them to warn me only once.
Posted by: Chinchillazilla | June 2, 2007 5:46 PM
"1. Don't waste your time with those who don't want to trust in God. It is enough that we warn them only ONCE. If they refuse to repent, it's because the Lord did not transform their "hearts." There are millions of people who have not yet heard about the Lord Jesus Christ."
So, when is the Lord going to get around to transforming my heart? What, is he too busy?
I can't imagine anything worse than a combination of omnipotence and poor time-management skills.
Posted by: Brownian | June 2, 2007 6:07 PM
"31. Every time atheists and evolutionists cannot answer a valid question, they say, "It's an Unexplained Mystery." Thus, they have blind faith. Instead of trusting in God, they trust in false science."
Too true! Just the other day, I was fishing through my wallet, asking myself where I could possibly have left my bank card. Immediately, as if by knee-jerk response (I'm not a free thinker, according to number 27) I exclaimed "It's an Unexplained Mystery!"
From now on, I'm going to respond to every valid question that I can't answer with "God works in Mysterious Ways."
No one's ever weaseled away with that one before.
Posted by: Brownian | June 2, 2007 6:17 PM
Caledonian
The entire point of both special and general relativity is that the speed of light (in a vacumn of course) remains constant regardless of reference frame. To an observer sitting right on the event horizon of a black hole and one far enough away that time dilation is a non-issue will both measure the same light ray as travelling at approx 3x10^8 m/s.
Gravitional fields can bend the path of light and red or blue shift it to varying degrees but not alter it's speed. To do that you need a fairly dense medium like air or glass (though there is some evidence to suggest that the interstellar medium can produce a small, but measureable effect over intergalactic distances)
Posted by: Knight of L-sama | June 2, 2007 6:36 PM
ConcernedJoe #11 says, "...even they had to die first to receive the salvation."
And that's a major crux (pardon the pun) of the lunacy: if ALL of your potential proponents who possibly CAN confirm OR refute the hypothesis of "life after death" (a phrase which in itself constitutes an oxymoron) cannot report and in fact have not reported back to the living BECAUSE THEY ARE DEAD (this after an experimental run mounting into many thousands of years now), WHY do believers continue to insist that its so?
WHY? There is only one reason: because it feels good to be part of a group of people, regardless of whatever they posit as "truth", no matter how irrationally lunatic that presumption of an apparent "truth" may be.
Here is the best part: BECAUSE there are no reports that refute the idea of an afterlife, "Believers" are exceedingly quick to utilize their abundant store of imaginative presumptions and faulty logic to justify their claims. They take advantage of having absorbed a pedestrian vernacular of science without once attempting to understand its logical underpinnings, in order to froth forth with science-like verbiage under a pretense of knowledge, and thus carry on methodically wanking on the horseshit that this absence of evidence IS EVIDENCE FOR IT.
Unfortunately for them (and us!), it just ain't true.
NOTHING of what they say is TRUE. False criteria, however strongly buttressed by a dedication to "faith", can never generate a "truth". WHY? Let's be honest. Its BECAUSE FAITH HAS (AND BY THEIR OWN ADMISSION) NO ALLEGIANCE TO RATIONAL EXAMINATION. Its supposed to be a thing one somehow "feels", or otherwise "intuits".
This thing called "Faith" thus gets absolved of all challenges. Woe unto them that would mount any logical and rationally-informed challenges against God, CONCEPT or OTHERWISE.
Stupidity CAN manifest in big brains. In fact, big brains are a strict requirement.
Posted by: Arnosium Upinarum | June 2, 2007 6:51 PM
Wait, so they only have to warn us once? Is that collectively or individually? If they warn more than once can I claim a refund of the seconds I lost and/or wear and tear on my senses?
Proposed button/t-shirt, to facilitate this whole process, save us all some irritation:
"Yes, I've been 'warned'. You can shut up now."
Posted by: AJ Milne | June 2, 2007 7:49 PM
It was a lot like reading a bottle of Dr. Bronner's soap! Why do they all seem to mangle grammar, punctuation and syntax the same way after the rant's been a-goin' for a while?
Posted by: twincats | June 2, 2007 7:54 PM