Pharyngula

It’s a strange place, Wisconsin

First we had that Wisconsinite caught trying to have sex with roadkill in Minnesota. Then it was decreed that it is illegal to have sex with dead animals, which I’m sure has distressed many a leather fetishist. Now I learn that the three Wisconsin boys who conspired to dig up the body of a dead young woman in order to have sex with it can only be charged with misdemeanor attempted theft, because it is not illegal to commit necrophilia in Wisconsin. I guess necrophilia is a victimless crime, after all, and our disgust at the perpetrators isn’t sufficient cause for serious criminal charges.

Still, I wouldn’t want to be caught dead in Wisconsin.

Comments

  1. #1 themann1086
    July 28, 2007

    Hooray, something else to make fun of my ex for! 😀

  2. #2 gracchus
    July 28, 2007

    I wonder if bestiality is a crime in Wisconsin…or whether the law only apply to dead animals.

    Almost completely irrelevant: I have a lawyer friend who defended a guy who was caught by police having sex with a (live) dog in a pubic hospital. The guy initially confessed and then recanted. He was having huge problems at home, but the magistrate was so disgusted by the crime, he gave the guy a (short) custodial sentence anyway.

  3. #3 Space Parasite
    July 28, 2007

    Excellent Freudian slip, gracchus.

  4. #4 gracchus
    July 28, 2007

    urp..blogging while drunk.

    1. public, not pubic. sheesh.

    2. a public TOILET, not hospital. double sheesh.

    And it wasn’t even GOOD sparkling wine….

  5. #5 rich (richmanwisco)
    July 28, 2007

    I will remind my learned friend that Wisconsin shares its longest border with the great state to the west, so don’t get too haughty, or I’ll start telling Ole and Lena jokes.

  6. #6 lytefoot
    July 28, 2007

    Bah, always with the being down on Wisconsin. At least our mosquitoes aren’t big enough to picket the state legislature and demand citizenship.

    As I understand it, necrophilia in itself isn’t specifically illegal in most places; the usual crime is “desecrating a corpse”. Sounds like the DA made a dumb move by charging them with sexual assault instead.

    IMHO, trying to specifically outlaw necrophilia is a waste of time for both the legislature and the courts.

  7. #7 gracchus
    July 28, 2007

    Criminal Code of Canada: Performing an Indignity Upon a Corpse. One of my favourite CCC crimes, along with Being Found in a Common Bawdy House. Oh, and Criminal Mischief, which I think is called Destruction of Private Property elsewhere, but which in the CCC definition makes me think of an exceptionally naughty two-year-old.

  8. #8 bernarda
    July 28, 2007

    Just call yourself a preacher and say that it is a rite to bring the dead back to life or that it is your religion’s way of showing respect for the dead. Why not ask for a government subsidy for your faith-based initiative?

  9. #9 philos
    July 28, 2007

    Inbreeding comes to mind with this trio.

    Luckily, such a thing as a concrete vault protects the dead:

    http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0906061grave4.html

  10. #10 N.Wells
    July 28, 2007

    You are slipping, PZ – you missed the religious connection, although who knows if it is of any relevance (apparently the twins were the sons of an ordained methodist minister). I can’t imagine how awful the parents must feel about having raised two kids who’d do that.

  11. #11 Ken Mareld
    July 28, 2007

    Ick.

  12. #12 skblllzzzz
    July 28, 2007

    In order to be able to act against the three necrophiliacs based on the illegality of having sex with dead animals, one would have to accept that humans are animals and thus human corpses are dead animals. That however may be a bit of a stretch for some…… ;-).

  13. #13 Chuck
    July 28, 2007

    The sex act itself is victimless, perhaps, but digging up a grave amounts to property destruction, and stealing a corpse and having sex with it must be some kind of affront to the family of the corpose. So it’s not an entirely victimless crime, presuming family members go to pay respects to the grave and find an empty hole with the corpse of their family member a hundred feet away.

  14. #14 Dan
    July 28, 2007

    Well, if you outlawed necrophilia here in Wisconsin, you’d probably break up a lot of really happy marriages.

  15. #15 Peter McGrath
    July 28, 2007

    Six feet of earth and a spade. Strange foreplay.

  16. #16 MAJeff
    July 28, 2007

    I’ll start telling Ole and Lena jokes.

    Let’s see, Ole and Lena vs. guys having sex with dead dear and conspiring to dig up a corpse to have sex.

    Even if Ole and Lena start getting into necrophiliac bestialisty, we can always say “they’ve been that way since they arrived from Wisconsin.”

  17. #17 Skeptico
    July 28, 2007

    At least they’re not flogging a dead horse.

  18. #18 natural cynic
    July 28, 2007

    Being Found in a Common Bawdy House

    Is it a permissable defense to claim that the Bawdy House was an Uncommon one? Pertaining either to the services rendered or the non-ubiquity of others in the area.

  19. #19 natural cynic
    July 28, 2007

    Now I learn that the three Wisconsin boys who conspired to dig up the body of a dead young woman in order to have sex with it can only be charged with misdemeanor attempted theft…

    Was her last name Johnson? If so, it should be permissable since I used to hear this drunken refrain in some taverns in Mad City: “On, Miss Johnson, on Miss Johnson …”

  20. #20 joel
    July 28, 2007

    I just love that they stopped at Walmart for some condoms before attempting the alleged necrophilia.

    You know, because catching the clap would be so icky.

  21. #21 Bunjo
    July 28, 2007

    “How was it for you?”

    “Did you feel the earth move?”

    Sorry.

  22. #22 Howard Hershey
    July 28, 2007

    Well, you sure wouldn’t want to be caught dead in Wisconsin with your pants down. Especially in winter.

  23. #23 phat
    July 28, 2007

    There’s a guy who is doing life here in Nebraska who would likely have faced the death penalty except that the truly depraved things he did to his victim happened after he had killed her.

    He was not guilty of various kinds of assault. But he was a murderer.

    He doesn’t know why he did it. His story is actually kind of fascinating.

    phat

  24. #24 Graculus
    July 28, 2007

    One of my favourite CCC crimes

    Well, I’m rather *personally* fond of “duelling” and “unlawful assembly”.

  25. #25 sailor
    July 28, 2007

    Would it be too brave new worldish to suggest anyone screwing dead animals by the roadside needs a little therapy?

  26. #26 John Danley
    July 28, 2007

    Especially in Plainfield Wisconsin with Ed Gein.

    http://thestubborncurmudgeon.blogspot.com

  27. #27 Moogle
    July 28, 2007

    Ahh, and thus one of the phrases that’s contributed to the corruption of my sanity by my college friends: “If you make your own hole it’s only a misdemeanor, not a felony”

    To add something to the old threads of conversation from the linked posts, bestiality shouldn’t be illegal because it’s icky. If there’s any good reason for a law against it, its that an animal can’t testify for itself. Since we want to prevent abuse, and most people don’t care to defend the rights of some to ‘love’ animals, the simplest solution is to make it all illegal.

    Like many other laws, this also is subject to the question of sweeping laws hiding abuse by creating a larger underground for the actually bad people to hide in.

  28. #28 Leni
    July 28, 2007

    Ya, sailor- that kind of goes without saying.

    And hhmmph. No one even mentioned Jeffrey Dahmer! I feel strangely insulted.

    Anyway- those sick little retards belong in prison. My guess is that the condoms were a pathetic attempt to avoid leaving DNA evidence. But wow. Her poor family. How fucking horrible.

  29. #29 Sastra
    July 28, 2007

    Leni wrote

    How fucking horrible.

    Well put.

    On the up side, the city of Sheboygan has canceled the brat eating contest at our annual BratFest, on account of it’s being just too gross. Wisconsin has standards.

  30. #30 Curtis
    July 28, 2007

    Why would anyone make it illegal to fuck a dead animal?
    This baffles me.

    It’ll just drive dead-animal fuck soirees underground.

  31. #31 Ktesibios
    July 28, 2007

    This kind of legal foofaraw has happened before. When a plot to steal the body of Abraham Lincoln and hold it for ransom was foiled in 1876, there was a problem with what the charges would be. At the time, Illinois had no law against grave-robbing.

    Conspiracy was obvious, but conspiracy to commit what crime? It wasn’t kidnapping, because a corpse is legally not a person. Nor would theft do, because a corpse is also legally not property.

    However, the plotters had planned to steal the coffin along with the body- and a coffin is property. They were charged with and convicted of conspiracy and attempted larceny- of the coffin, not the body.

  32. #32 festus
    July 28, 2007

    The only surprise here is that a flock of moonbats hasn’t already emerged to demand the decriminalization of screwing roadkill, then to demand society respect someone’s absolute right to screw roadkill, and then to demand domestic partnerships for the happy couple.

    After all, who are you to judge, bigots?

    I’m sure we can count on pee z’s jumping on board when it comes to mocking churches that refuse to marry the deceased.

  33. #33 MAJeff
    July 28, 2007

    The only surprise here is that a flock of moonbats hasn’t already emerged to demand the decriminalization of screwing roadkill, then to demand society respect someone’s absolute right to screw roadkill, and then to demand domestic partnerships for the happy couple.

    What a lovely person. Is this more Rick man-on-dog Santorum, or John Box Turtle Cornyn in its approach?

  34. #34 festus
    July 28, 2007

    Actually, this is the festus putting the facts of left-wing wankery up there in your face approach.

    I should have known…

    http://www.citypages.com/detail.asp?ArticleID=7190

    “Nixing antiquated prohibitions on oral sex and prostitution was the brainchild of Rep. Phyllis Kahn, a Minneapolis DFLer who’s a veteran of past similar attempts. This time around, Kahn lumped in a lot of other stuff, which didn’t escape the notice of the Minnesota Family Council (whose members, much likeOff Beat, seem to exhibit a certain zeal for Internet porn).”

    “Besides doing away with penalties for sodomy and certain types of prostitution, they pointed out, Kahn’s bill would repeal the statute that commences, “Whoever carnally knows a dead body or an animal or a bird is guilty of bestiality.” Co-sponsors Thomas Huntley (DFL-Duluth), Karen Clark, Lee Greenfield, and Gregory Gray (all DFL-Minneapolis) promptly scurried away from the proposed legislation..”

    Scurry is an apt description here; as in a feral animal scurrying for the comfort of a dark hiding hold. I’m sure that if this hadn’t been brought to the public attention, the Democrats would have passed this easily.

    “Kahn says that while she doesn’t recall asking that the bill include the repeal of the bestiality/necrophilia statute, she wouldn’t put it past herself. “I very well may have said to repeal them, just because they are also stupid laws to have on the books..”

    In lefty-loony land, there is nothing, absolutely nothing too warped to consider.

    Truth hurts doesn’t it?

  35. #35 MAJeff
    July 28, 2007

    This should be good:

    festus, why was Lawrence v. Texas wrong?

  36. #36 festus
    July 28, 2007

    Let’s stick to the topic at hand, shall we?

    Or is the revelation that one of your own is so shameless in displaying her mental disease so publicly too much to deal with?

  37. #37 Sam Nesvoy
    July 28, 2007

    The current issue of The Economist (28 July, p. 44) reports on the problem of “ghost brides” in China, in which an old tradition requiring that a man and his wife be buried together has resulted in grave robbery (and funeral-parlor robbery) to obtain the required female corpse when a single man dies. And not just grave robbery but even murder. (This sounds like an urban legend, but The Economist reports it as fact, in great detail, including even the prices paid to the grave robber by the dead man’s family.)

  38. #38 MAJeff
    July 28, 2007

    you silly fuckwit. You come here making implicit comparisons to the gay rights movement, you misrepresent what was probably an attempt to remove an enenforceable law (the state’s sodomy law was declared unconstitutional by state courts a few years before the SCOTUS decision in Lawrence.) and just said, lets get rid of all the “victimless crime sex statutes.”

    Then again, you probably also don’t know that Minnesota’s sodomy law also applied to straight sex.

    Last night, in a cab, I was cursed with a cabbie who was listening to Michael Savage. Festus is on about that same level. Hate, hate, hate. Projection, projection, projjection. Worthless wastes of dna.

  39. #39 Drhoz!
    July 28, 2007

    “Neeecrophilia, Neeeeeeecrophilia, Neeecrophilia,
    Rigor Mortis makes me hard, Hey!”

  40. #40 gracchus
    July 28, 2007

    On “common”: probably not, different meaning of the word, unless you could prove it was a membership club, I suppose.

    Festus: doesn’t it bother you that you set up your own straw man and then set about attacking it? Shouldn’t you attack things OTHER people have actually written?

  41. #41 Krystalline Apostate
    July 28, 2007

    The only surprise here is that a flock of moonbats hasn’t already emerged to demand the decriminalization of screwing roadkill, then to demand society respect someone’s absolute right to screw roadkill, and then to demand domestic partnerships for the happy couple.

    That qualifies as about the most insane accusation I’ve ever seen leveled at the left.
    I assume someone, somewhere, in your immediate family, is wondering where their medication vanished to?
    To echo Lewis Black (on another topic): “Stone. Cold. Fucking. Nuts.”
    Du, mein freund, bist eine grosse Scheistkopf.

  42. #42 bernarda
    July 29, 2007

    Don’t forget this animal sex ranch in Washington. There guys not only do animals, they get done by animals.

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002384648_farm16m.html

    “Two neighbors, a married couple who declined to allow use of their names, said yesterday they had no idea what had been going on at the farm. They said they’ve known one of the men who live on the farm for years.

    On Thursday, police showed the couple videotape seized from the farm showing men having sex with horses. The couple identified one of the horses as belonging to them, Sortland said. The couple also said it appeared at least part of the tape was filmed in their barn, which left them shocked and angry.

    “We couldn’t believe what we were seeing,” said Sortland. “In the rare, rare case this happens, it’s the person doing the animal. I think that has led to the astonishment of all of the entities involved.””

  43. #43 festus
    July 29, 2007

    “you misrepresent what was probably an attempt to remove an enenforceable law”

    Misrepresent? I reprinted the article verbatim my friend…have your mommy read it to you.

    “lets get rid of all the “victimless crime sex statutes..”

    Oh, I see; Moonbat wisdom.

    So, tell me. Is this where the box turtles and dogs of which you speak come in?

    Heh…lefties.

    Very instructive thread indeed.

  44. #44 bernarda
    July 29, 2007

    BBC World has a report on cemeteries trying to raise money by organizing tours, and even events. They have names like Woodlawn, Oakwood, or Greenwood. Sounds so nice and peaceful.

    On the BBC report, one cemetery director said that they wanted to attract more young people who seemed to have fear cemeteries because they associate them with death. How strange.

    http://www.thewoodlawncemetery.org/weekend.html

    http://search.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/search/results.pl?scope=all&edition=i&q=cemeteries&go.x=28&go.y=13&go=go

  45. #45 festus
    July 29, 2007

    “That qualifies as about the most insane accusation I’ve ever seen leveled at the left.”

    My, my. Pee Z has more than his fair share of reading impared participants doesn’t he?

    Try again dear…

    “[Minneapolis Democrat, Phyllis] Kahn says that while she doesn’t recall asking that the bill include the repeal of the bestiality/necrophilia statute, she wouldn’t put it past herself. “I very well may have said to repeal them, just because they are also stupid laws to have on the books..”

    This paragraph takes what I (foolishly) thought was a preposterous supposition right into fact. As I said, I should know by now that there is nothing too preposterous for a lefty to take seriously. Nothing.

  46. #46 Krystalline Apostate
    July 29, 2007

    My, my. Pee Z has more than his fair share of reading impared participants doesn’t he?

    I wasn’t referring to your little paragraph, you daft twit. I outlined EXACTLY what I meant, & which comment I was speaking of.
    Your reading comprehension is fairly selective – which is standard, for a wingnut threaded just a tad too tight.
    The word is ‘impaired’, BTW. Get used to seeing that on your medical reports.
    Obviously, a deranged follower of ‘Doc’ Savage – disturbed is too soft a word, I think.

  47. #47 John C. Randolph
    July 29, 2007

    Whatever the criminal penalties may be, I’m sure that the family of the deceased would be able to obtain a civil judgment against the perps that would pretty much render them bankrupt for the remainder of their lives.

    -jcr

  48. #48 bernarda
    July 29, 2007

    A tourist from Chicago is traveling through the south. He stops at a bar in the hinterlands of Alabama. There are a few good ole boys at the tables. The Chicagoan orders a beer and everyone hears his accent and looks askance at the bartender Festus.

    Festus says “You ain’t from these parts, is you?”

    Chicagoan replies, “No, I’m from Chicago.”

    Festus, “What do you do in Chicago?”

    Chicagoan, “I’m a taxidermist.”

    Bartender Festus, “What’s a taxidermist do?”

    Chicagoan, “I stuff dead animals.”

    Festus, turning to the boys, “It’s ok boys, he’s one of us.”

  49. #49 MAJeff
    July 29, 2007

    again, festus…what’s your opinion on Lawrence? Your own posts make it obvious, that you believe I as a gay man am the same as someone who would kill an animal to have sex with it.

    Are you a member of the MFC, an organization that was founded to attempt to control other people’s sex lives, and which makes clear that’s what the “pro-family” movement is all about? The world would be a better place without your and that entire movement’s existence.

  50. #50 Moses
    July 29, 2007

    Posted by: festus | July 28, 2007 09:02 PM

    Or is the revelation that one of your own is so shameless in displaying her mental disease so publicly too much to deal with?

    They were sons of an ordained Methodist Minister. Which makes them more your kind, than ours.

  51. #51 Bucky
    July 29, 2007

    There are fifty states in this republic of ours, and frankly, it is just a matter of time before everyone’s state hits the dollar on their own showcase showdown wheel of weird depravity. I would hate to be the one to inspect the closets of the state where the most vociferous condemnations originate. I live in Wisconsin, born and raised. I have also traveled extensively, with a wink and a nod to Uncle Sam and his preference for putting me in places where death was commonplace.
    That said, it is certainly tragic that these individuals could be so lost as to hatch and attempt to carry out such a plan.
    Obviously, they were so weaned on films, media, and pop culture (unless the leader was a victorian english grave robber history buff) that they just figured that “Hey, all we need is a couple shovels…” Just like the movie they saw last week or last month or last year.
    They have seen so many “dead” bodies in ‘Buffy’, ‘Scream’, Resident Evil, Mortal Combat, etc.etc.
    I will wager that they to a person had never been to a funeral. If they had, then it stands to reason that they would have realized it is not just a box in a hole covered with dirt.
    Clearly, it will boil down to Evaluation, Treatment, and Punishment in that order… Exactly in that order. The question is… Why- “What made you want to do it”… “How could you believe you had a chance to succeed?”… “Who’s Idea was it?”
    We can never know the thoughts in the mind of the perpetrators of the crime that they are charged with. Thankfully, they didn’t prowl the streets for a live victim that the three of them could have easily overpowered.
    They are all young men. I hope that they can get the help they need and not just be left to rot at $30,000+ per year.
    In a previous professional capacity, I worked with the dead. It was a very humble and eye opening experience, filled with reverence, compassion, and professionalism.
    It is my opinion that in their sophomore year of high school, All students as a part of their life sciences studies take a field trip to the county morgue. The stainless steel, the gurneys, the heavy duty sink disposer, digital scales and the ‘s’ shaped needles that we use to sew you back up. The smell that is there, dull, yet coppery sweet even though the room is immaculate… then a body… either in a drawer or on a gurney in the walk in…
    Downing gowns, gloves, hat and masks could very well impress upon them the seriousness and importance of realizing that it could be themselves on the gurney or in the cooler, and hopefully give them a more clearly defined experience of mortality that our culture still refuses to provide.

  52. #52 Leni
    July 29, 2007

    festus wrote:

    “Kahn says that while she doesn’t recall asking that the bill include the repeal of the bestiality/necrophilia statute, she wouldn’t put it past herself. “I very well may have said to repeal them, just because they are also stupid laws to have on the books..”

    Festus, you quote-1 mining little creep. Are you a creationist too?

    Why don’t we show the part you neglected to post after the ellipses? Here’s the whole thing, with the part where she admits it was a mistake bolded:

    o-sponsors Thomas Huntley (DFL-Duluth), Karen Clark, Lee Greenfield, and Gregory Gray (all DFL-Minneapolis) promptly scurried away from the proposed legislation, some of them pausing to issue stunned statements as they went. “The way the bill was explained to me, it was a bill to repeal some outdated laws on sodomy,” Gray tells Off Beat. “I couldn’t believe that anyone would even author that [as it was written].” Kahn says that while she doesn’t recall asking that the bill include the repeal of the bestiality/necrophilia statute, she wouldn’t put it past herself. “I very well may have said to repeal them, just because they are also stupid laws to have on the books; however, it was clearly a mistake, as it gave the opponents a field day of extended rhetoric,” she asserts. “I will go back to just going after the parts of the statutes that could seriously affect people’s lives and let the more general cleanup wait.”

    Last, what crap is that you’ve posted as a link? Nowhere in that piece of crap is there a even a title of the bill, much less link to it. A search at the Minnesota is turning up nothing authored by Rep. Kahn fitting this description since 2005.

    Frankly, you should consider citing better sources and not leaving out relevant parts of quotes. Otherwise it makes you look like a dishonest, quote-mining wanker.

  53. #53 Brian
    July 29, 2007

    I can’t remember who it was (it might have been David Cross) but I once heard a comedian say something like, “When I die I’m going to donate my body to necrophiliacs. I won’t be using it anymore, and it’s so hard for them to find partners.”

  54. #54 Krystalline Apostate
    July 29, 2007

    Sam – thanks for the ghost bride pointer. Helped me do my Sunday sermon.
    Obliged.

  55. #55 festus
    July 29, 2007

    MAJeff ejaculated: “Are you a member of the MFC, an organization that was founded to attempt to control other people’s sex lives”

    No my friend. If you want to screw roadkill, or turtles, or elm trees, or petunias, or your mom, or your dad I have no problems with it. In fact, I’m pleased to have your genetic material out of the public gene pool.

    But evidently you do have problems, or you wouldn’t be so defensive when the subject is brought up.

    Why not talk it over with your sister when you two have finished with one another tonight?

  56. #56 MAJeff
    July 29, 2007

    how long did it take ya to come up with that, festus? nyuk nyuk…he so funny.

  57. #57 Krystalline Apostate
    July 30, 2007

    In fact, I’m pleased to have your genetic material out of the public gene pool.

    In fact, I’m hoping you can’t reproduce, festus.
    We have a surfeit of lackwits as is.
    So, which Festus do you think you’re reincarnated from? Grammarian, historian, or governor? Or is that where you hail from?

  58. #58 BobH
    July 30, 2007

    Wow! – another good reason for being cremated.

New comments have been temporarily disabled. Please check back soon.