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The theistic hypothesis does not differentially explain specific phenomena in the way that successful scientific theories do: it does not explain why we have these phenomena rather than others.
J.L. Mackie, The Miracle of Theism (New York: Oxford University Press), p. 138.
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Category: Creationism
Posted on: July 30, 2007 6:18 PM, by PZ Myers
If you're interested in the sordid history of bannings at Bill Dembski's prissy little blog, here's a compilation. It's an ugly little story.
If you're interested in the history of bannings here, I keep a public list. It isn't quite so easy to get banned at Pharyngula, although a few are making a strong effort.
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Comments
Posted by: Azkyroth | July 30, 2007 6:24 PM
Speaking of the Pharyngula dungeon, hasn't ForTheKids been added to the autojunk list?
Posted by: John Danley | July 30, 2007 6:32 PM
Dembski is a chestnut.
Posted by: Brownian | July 30, 2007 6:37 PM
Shouldn't ForTheKids have been banned for using such an obviously self-serving nom d'écran?
Posted by: Blake Stacey, OM | July 30, 2007 6:38 PM
The only person I've banned is, coincidentally enough, also in the Pharyngula dungeon (and I wouldn't have done that, probably, if he hadn't been irritating my other two readers).
I did report Larry Fafarman's comment to Akismet, though. It felt like the right thing to do.
Posted by: PZ Myers | July 30, 2007 6:45 PM
Nah, it takes more persistence to get into the dungeon. FtK is an occasional nuisance who flits in, gets swatted down, and doesn't get the ugly wrangles going that warrant banning.
Posted by: Sherry Konkus | July 30, 2007 6:51 PM
Did you ban Michael Korn, too?
Posted by: Rey Fox | July 30, 2007 6:52 PM
FTK is our favorite punching bag, right?
Posted by: PZ Myers | July 30, 2007 6:53 PM
No, Korn isn't banned. Really, you can't get banned for just being a creationist and making a few comments. You have to work at it.
Posted by: Brownian | July 30, 2007 6:56 PM
Good, because I've been guilty of insipidity, slagging, stupidity, trolling, and wanking on at least one occasion each.
Posted by: Neil | July 30, 2007 7:03 PM
When I first skimmed this post, I read the all blue "public list" as "publicist." I'm thinking "Damn, he keeps a publicist to explain why certain people are banned? Too considerate, really!"
I valyew my litterassy!
Posted by: Christian Burnham | July 30, 2007 7:44 PM
'The Physicist' should be banned for being very lame and having paranoid delusions about Pharyngula posters hacking into his computers.
Also,
Brownian should be banned for boasting about his high IQ.
Blake Stacey should be banned for using his 'OM' moniker off-site.
PZ Myers should be banned for being gratuitously offensive.
Zeno should be banned for paradoxical reasons.
Anyone else?
Posted by: AJ Milne | July 30, 2007 7:46 PM
I am awed at the Sisyphean persistence of the compiler... and, for that matter, that of anyone who actually reads UD. It's my ever so humble opinion that watching your screensaver for three minutes is probably less a waste of time than spending that same time in that thar' slog*.
...Speaking, of course, as a semiautomatic 'n didactic web-omnivore with an IQ somewhere east by northeast of three, who has on occasion ruined half of a morning reading the entire back catalogue of 'Narbonic'... when I'd already read it once.
*Emphatically not a typo.
Posted by: Diana | July 30, 2007 7:55 PM
Blake: I have tried to be your third reader, but I can't. I really can't read the page.
Posted by: Christian Burnham | July 30, 2007 7:56 PM
Diana: click on his name.
Posted by: Inoculated Mind | July 30, 2007 7:57 PM
Ah, I remember when DaveScot tried to ban me attacking my ability to spell my own pseudonym, and he made four spelling mistakes in his attack on me. Hilarious. DaveScot also thought it would be worth his time to challenge me by email, and I smacked him down by pointing out how he was being a relativist.
Then with the momentary protection of Dave's new black eye, I proceeded to ask the UDers a few questions to get at what they believed. I thought it would be a good opportunity. It was difficult to get them to answer my non-confrontational questions, and I had to keep on guard and not argue with them while asking those questions. I got a few worthless nonspecific answers.
Then, after a short while, one of my first posts was done on my blog, http://www.inoculatedmind.com/?p=10, and I expounded on the farce of an open forum that UD was. Almost immediately, they said that my post was all wrong and couldn't begin to point out the errors. I challenged them to point out the errors, but I was disemvoweled and unable to make any comment in my defense. They've probably cooled off and I could comment today, but why would I want to? Now that I've started grad school their antics are less and less interesting to me. Every now and then some dumb thing they do rises up enough out of the sea of stupidity to give me a laugh, this link is certainly a good laugh!
Posted by: Christian Burnham | July 30, 2007 7:58 PM
Diana: I think I misunderstood. You can't read BS's blog? The colors?
Posted by: Spook | July 30, 2007 8:05 PM
It's interesting to see the difference between Pharyngula and Dembski's little corner of the 'net; here, you can post comments without creating an account and aren't subject to the same degree of moderation. On top of that, actually getting banned takes some real effort on that part of the troll - over there, you just have to bring up pesky little things like facts.
How fragile their echo chamber is. I suppose that's to be expected of a group that prefers unquestionable dogma over science though. Ah well.
Posted by: Rich | July 30, 2007 8:13 PM
Teach the controversy: C*nsor the reality!
Posted by: Diana | July 30, 2007 8:17 PM
I can get to the page, but the black and red...it hurts. (I'm kinda old.)
Posted by: Christian Burnham | July 30, 2007 8:22 PM
Diana: If you're on a Mac- try this software:
http://nocturne.en.softonic.com/mac
If you're using Firefox- I'm sure there's a plugin which will help. Can anyone suggest anything?
Posted by: Christian Burnham | July 30, 2007 8:25 PM
Diana: If you're using Firefox- this could help.
http://www.colblindor.com/2007/06/20/colorblindext-better-web-accessibility-for-colorblind-users/
Also- write to Blake Stacey (If he's not reading this) and tell him your problem.
Posted by: Cody | July 30, 2007 8:27 PM
Nothing like reading a list of banned users only to see your own name on it. I had completely forgotten about that.
Posted by: Zeno | July 30, 2007 8:27 PM
As Christian noted, I should be banned because I shouldn't be.
QED
Posted by: Moses | July 30, 2007 8:29 PM
I got banned and my post never showed up because DaveTard had taken over and everyone was on moderation. I guess you can say I was pre-banned...
Posted by: Margaret | July 30, 2007 8:39 PM
Diana: If you're using IE (required where I work), go to Tools/Internet Options/Accessibility and select "Ignore colors specified on Web pages".
Posted by: Sili | July 30, 2007 8:49 PM
Neil (#10), me too!
AJ Milne (#12), anyone who reads Narbonic (and The Slog?) can't be wholly bad (to paraphrase WC Fields - badly).
Posted by: MyaR | July 30, 2007 9:00 PM
Interesting that they're exactly the same moderation/ban tactics as all the other kooky similar people, like Conservaepedia. But I have to say, that's a really masochistic endeavor, involving actually reading UD.
Posted by: waldteufel | July 30, 2007 9:10 PM
The IDiots loathe science and the rough and tumble of vigorous debate. Dembski is a petti tyrant whose army consists of cheesy-puff munching basement dwellers like DaveTard, and whose domain is now reduced to a fourth rate bible college in the intellectual deserts of Texas.
By the way, I live in Texas, and I know what an intellectual and cultural wasteland it is -- NASA and the Texas Medical Center in Houston being outstanding exceptions.
Around here it's said that the typical highway intersection in Texas consists of three gas stations and a Baptist Church.
Posted by: sailor | July 30, 2007 9:31 PM
PZ maybe you should have a special dungeon part of your blog with a cell for each miscreant. You could post a few of their worst offerings and have a comments page so when we were really short of a life we could go down there and torment them for a while - push some metaphors through their bars.
Posted by: Tracy P. Hamilton | July 30, 2007 9:33 PM
Innoculated Mind said: "Now that I've started grad school their antics are less and less interesting to me."
At first I thought you had written grade school.
Are you sure it isn't another of your typos? After all, even a bright grade schooler would tire of the UD antics.
Posted by: RBH | July 30, 2007 9:35 PM
Pity the compiler missed the banning of Febble, a Ph.D. neuroscientist:
66
DaveScot
01/09/2007
3:17 am
febble is no longer with us - anyone who doesn't understand how natural selection works to conserve (or not) genomic information yet insists on writing long winded anti-ID comments filled with errors due to lack of understanding of the basics is just not a constructive member - good luck on your next blog febble
Posted by: steve s | July 30, 2007 10:06 PM
Bill has probably committed the greatest effort in the history of posting at After the Bar Closes. Even so, his post only documents six months of the tyrannical moderation at UD.
Good ol' After the Bar Closes. I'd follow those sons of bitches into hell.
Posted by: Ed Darrell | July 30, 2007 11:43 PM
Who has NOT been banned at UD? Turing's other artificial intelligence program, Obsequious Sycophant, is the only thing posting at UD these days, so far as I can tell.
Turing's revenge.
Posted by: Caledonian | July 31, 2007 12:00 AM
Ed Darrell:
As I recall, they've even banned ID-friendly individuals who tried to correct - or just point out - their logic errors.
Posted by: Diana | July 31, 2007 12:03 AM
Thanks. Two of those suggestions work. (I don't have a Mac.)
I am also in Texas, and in my neck of the woods, every intersection or even corner has the Baptist church, two other churches such as COGIC or Celestial Heaven, and then one gas station. Of course, as you pass that intersection, there's the Catholic, the Presbyterian, the COC, various creative names that obscure the demomination, and several more until the really BIG ones closer to the major freeways. Those are the personality churches, with the preacher and wife on huge billboards. And always, somewhere, another one under construction.
Posted by: Kseniya | July 31, 2007 12:54 AM
That was... illuminating. Until now, I thought the "DaveTard" moniker was a bit excessive, but holy crumbling shortcake is that guy on a power trip. He loves, LOVES having that kind of control. It just oozes out of his keyboard, and reveals him to be little more than a petty autocrat. The "innoculated" banning was hysterical. The whole thread reads like parody. Remarkable.
Posted by: Bob O'H | July 31, 2007 1:32 AM
I haven't. I decided that getting banned was too easy, so I decided to go for not being banned. Even weirder, both DaveTard and Sal seem to like me.Of course, this means that the only trained biologist posting at UD is anti-ID (it might be the only two trained biologists, but great_ape seems to have come to his senses, and stopped posting).
Bob
Posted by: hoary puccoon | July 31, 2007 4:27 AM
I loved the part about banning people for discussing evolutionary theory, on the grounds that everybody on UD knew it already. The one and only time I read a thread on UD, they were discussing genes and chromosomes and trying to decide if there were any difference between them. They concluded there isn't. I did DaveScott one better and banned myself from even reading their stuff.
Posted by: ngong | July 31, 2007 6:42 AM
I was surprised to see that Dembski openly posts against scientific materialism/naturalism...it seems he has eliminated the "designer was a smart alien" argument. I thought he was a bit more stealthy than that.
Bible quotes galore on the comments threads, too. Do nutcase fundies ever get banned on that site?
Posted by: steve s | July 31, 2007 8:47 AM
Yes. Joshua Bozeman is a nutcase fundy, and he was banned by Davetard.
Posted by: Torbjörn Larsson, OM | July 31, 2007 9:37 AM
Um, looks like the reason DaveTard didn't use a blog of his own was because he knew he would ban everyone on sight. What a peculiar "mind".
That said, I haven't bothered with registration blogs outside of Dawkins cool site, so I wouldn't know how UD works, or not. But it looks bad from this - what a surprise.
Torbjörn Larsson should be banned for using ümlauts instead of honest to no gods letters.
Posted by: Kseniya, OM | July 31, 2007 10:03 AM
Ah! Now that I've had some sleep, I realize just what was lurking in the back of my mind last night: This is like Alice In Wonderland, with DaveScot as the Red Queen.
Posted by: Arnosium Upinarum | July 31, 2007 12:27 PM
Exercising their fascist/control-freak/thought police proclivities on a lousy cesspool of a website like that is uproariously amusing. Funny all those folks On List publicly exhibited - like stock-&-pilloried pilgrims lining their streets. (Wow, does THAT hurt.) As if to say, "VARNING: This vill Happen To You: It ist STRICTLY VERBOTTEN to Qvestion Der Furer ODER Der Vaterland." (Ooooh, that could be SERIOUS).
Just watch: if it isn't already being done, we'll see their lists bulging with the names and pseudonyms of "known agitators" from OTHER blogs, including this one, whether or not any of them even visit those sites. I normally wouldn't bother to enter an arena that reeks so ambitiously of hydrogen sulfide myself. [CHOKE-GASP-GAG-COUGH]
Little boys and girls playing their paranoid little games; the brats can be SO insecure...
Posted by: Inoculated Mind | July 31, 2007 2:49 PM
Tracy said:
At first I thought you had written grade school.
Are you sure it isn't another of your typos? After all, even a bright grade schooler would tire of the UD antics.
Hehe, the funny thing was, I never spelled anything wrong. (BTW, Inoculated is spelled with one N - you made the same goof DaveScot did) There is a very strong similarity between their antics and those of grade schoolers, but I assure you, "grad" is spelled properly in my comment.
Posted by: Inoculated Mind | July 31, 2007 2:51 PM
oops, I guess it doesn't like double-blockquotes. Tracy's excerpted comment ends at the end of "UD antics." My response begins at "Hehe".
Posted by: Christian Burnham | July 31, 2007 4:22 PM
Sorry Torbjörn, you can't ban yourself. You're banned.
Posted by: Stephen | July 31, 2007 4:58 PM
Re: pages which are difficult to read. May I recommend the Opera browser? Just type Shift-G on a difficult-to-read page and the author styling is switched off, to give straightforward black-on-white in your preferred font size. No plugins etc needed. I use the feature regularly.
Posted by: scienceteacherinexile | August 1, 2007 2:55 AM
everyone here should be banned...
oh sorry, then what would I read?
Posted by: scienceteacherinexile | August 1, 2007 3:53 AM
And by the by, PZ, put me in charge of the blog like Demski did for DS, and I will boot anyone who criticizes you or doesn't kiss your ass. Or maybe it is just Dembski who needs to feel loved like that?
Posted by: Marion Delgado | August 1, 2007 10:25 AM
I doubt UD is actually representative of much besides Dembski. However, he and DaveScot running it as a Stalinist-theocratic hybrid is pretty amusing and indicative. I have posted there, asking if the blog was related to Donald Norman's "The Psychology of Everyday Things" (which is the best book on intelligent design* ever written). No response, although I didn't get banned.
By the way, as near as I can calculate from using the Triple-Nine Society's requirements, genius boy is claiming "somewhere north of" == >>
1460 SAT combined
AND 158 AGCT OR 75 NGCT (As far as I can determine, there IS no MGCT and never was one.),
since that would be about 150 on the Stanford Binet and around that for the Wechsler.
Just to point out the obvious, Marilyn Vos Savant, among others, doesn't believe in Intelligent Design. And her 228 or so is very far north of DaveScot's 150, so he loses. Indeed, if he can read a normal distribution, he'll realize he's somewhere around Panama and she's in the Arctic Circle heading for the North Pole.
*by people. Of everyday things. It's through Norman that the concept of affordances became widely known.
Posted by: Arnosium Upinarum | August 1, 2007 11:34 AM
scienceteacherinexile #49 says, "And by the by, PZ, put me in charge of the blog like Demski did for DS, and I will boot anyone who criticizes you or doesn't kiss your ass. Or maybe it is just Dembski who needs to feel loved like that?"
Before that, you suggest everyone here should be banned, then wonder what you will read. Ah, I get it. Its a JOKE, isn't it? With a very thin glaze of sarcasm. How sumptuous.
The EFFORT involved in expressing such OUTRAGE over other people expressing their opinions independently of any authoritative stricture never ceases to amaze me. You simply amaze me.
You know what? I find it sufficiently funny that you are exiled from both science and teaching. By way of context, it is wholly consistent and worth a good chuckle.
Posted by: Arnosium Upinarum | August 1, 2007 11:41 AM
Hembski Dembski sat on a wall
Hembski Dembski had a great fall
All of God's horses and all of God's men
Couldn't put Dembski together again
and neither could the humans.
Posted by: Torbjörn Larsson, OM | August 2, 2007 5:13 AM
Christian:
Oops, I forgot to buy the extra rule book to this game. Your help is appreciated.
[I did get the rule book after that. According to catch-22, I revoked all bans, including my own, by reading catch-22. Oh, frak!]