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PZ Myers is a biologist and associate professor at the University of Minnesota, Morris.
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Category: Kooks
Posted on: August 30, 2007 10:00 AM, by PZ Myers
Now the Stuart Pivar Story is on Daily Kos. Even after he dropped the lawsuit, his reputation on the blogosphere is sealed. If he'd never started this duel, it would have been nothing but a few fading memories of a negative review of an obscure book … but by playing games with the law and trying to intimidate others by throwing his money around, he's elevated himself into notoriety.
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Comments
Don't feel sorry for him, this is good publicity. Now if anyone considers buying his piece of crap a simple google will turn up only a load of criticism calling him a kook. At best it will cost him even more money pay google to put a piece of self puffery into the mix.
Posted by: Peter Ashby | August 30, 2007 10:19 AM
He's become kind of an object lesson on trying to do law on the cheap, as well.
If he got such a green and sloppy lawyer because he was too cheap to mobilize his resources on the suit, well, as they say, you get what you pay for.
If he did it because no experienced, reputable lawyer would touch his case, well, that should have been a big red flag to him as well.
Posted by: thalarctos | August 30, 2007 10:22 AM
How long before his name becomes a verb, as in, "Dude! I've been Pivared!"? It does have kind of a ring to it...
Posted by: Bryn | August 30, 2007 10:40 AM
I'm not sure you could be "pivared" - you can only "pivar" yourself.
Posted by: Dunc | August 30, 2007 10:55 AM
You give yourself too little credit. Forget Daily Kos, consider his blogrep ruined after the ribbing he received on Pharyngula.
Posted by: caynazzo | August 30, 2007 10:59 AM
As if you have any credibility as a scientist PZ: all you are known for is your hatred of religion and verbal abuse.
I hate to tell you, but your blog is NOT peer reviewed literature.
Posted by: Reasonable Kansan | August 30, 2007 11:11 AM
why do you feel bad for him? surely achieving notoriety was his goal. he got exactly what he wanted. unless you honestly believe he thought a bad review was an actionable offense?
Posted by: M | August 30, 2007 11:13 AM
(o)(o)
Posted by: wÒÓ† | August 30, 2007 11:20 AM
I hate to tell you, but your blog is NOT peer reviewed literature.
So as an advocate of ID, you must never see any peer-reviewed literature, huh FTK?
Posted by: George Cauldron | August 30, 2007 11:26 AM
George Cauldron (#9),
Shhhhh. That troll doesn't need feeding.
Posted by: Mike P | August 30, 2007 11:32 AM
Go back to your blog which you don't even allow your peers to read, much less review, FTK.
Posted by: Nerull | August 30, 2007 11:34 AM
Has anyone noticed that all customer reviews for Lifecode on amazon.com have been deleted?
Posted by: zohn | August 30, 2007 11:36 AM
Perhaps you're right. Besides, I'm being too harsh. For IDers, a blog run by Dave Scot counts as 'peer reviewed literature'.
Posted by: George Cauldron | August 30, 2007 11:36 AM
Well, a little of all this mud has to stick to a court system that allows abuse like this. There are quite a few controls a court could apply if it is interested in cleaning itself up.
What comes to mind are such ideas as a hefty Contempt of Court fine, a couple of days in jail, a formal complaint for ethics violation to the State Bar, and immediate summary judgment for defendant with all costs and punitive damages.
The ability to re-file in another court is easiily circumvented by using a nationwide database of abusive clients and lawyers.
Posted by: June | August 30, 2007 11:41 AM
Also, I don't think that's FTK. There's another scienceblogs commenter with that handle who has linked to this website: http://tektonics.org/
Posted by: Mike P | August 30, 2007 11:42 AM
Hm, according to Daily Kos Pivar's book has sold all of three copies. maybe the whole lawsuit was a publicity ploy to try and gin up sales. Or maybe Pivar is just a clueless twit.
Don;t feel sorry for Pivar though, if you hadn't had the backup of Seed you could be facing serious financial problems defending your self against this sort of legal harassment. Even a completely baseless lawsuit like this can cost a lot out of pocket before it is dismissed. Given the apparently deep pockets of some creationists this could be a disturbing trend.
Posted by: Natasha Yar-Routh | August 30, 2007 11:53 AM
So, how did this clown get the money he's throwing around? I can only assume he inherited it or won a lottery.
-jcr
Posted by: John C. Randolph | August 30, 2007 11:54 AM
"all you are known for is your hatred of religion and verbal abuse"
Sounds just like my wife. God (which may or may not exist), I love that woman!
Posted by: Fred X. Quinby | August 30, 2007 12:04 PM
"an obscure book" as long as none of the neo-creationists didn't had the occasion to start some new kind of sermon based on the science of Pivar.
We do have the parallel case here in France, with Vincent Fleury's "From egg to eternity, the arrow of evolution", claiming that everything is "physics" in evolution, and Jean Staune, one of the John Templeton Foundation agents, claiming that Fleury's theory could be a proof that Darwin was wrong, and that Teilhard de Chardin's Omega point exists.
Staune's book should be translated (JTF funds?) and be available in english in a few months. Prepare yourself PZ for a long, boring and quite surrealistic reading.
Posted by: oldcola | August 30, 2007 12:09 PM
Has anyone noticed that all customer reviews for Lifecode on amazon.com have been deleted?
Huyh, they are still there for me, and the "classic crackpot" tag just needs a few more votes to get it onto the first page.
Posted by: Graculus | August 30, 2007 12:10 PM
On the bright side, he probably has a future as the spokesman for Banquet Crock-Pot Classics.
Posted by: Mena | August 30, 2007 12:15 PM
Apparently it worked. He's sold three copies!
Posted by: MartinM | August 30, 2007 12:20 PM
Graculus @ #21,
Oops! I was looking at this page : http://www.amazon.com/Lifecode-Embryo-Self-Organization-Stuart-Rivar/dp/0976406098/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-9192171-6611223?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1188490671&sr=8-1
and saw no reviews there...went back and saw the reviews are all on the hardcover version.
Thanks.
Posted by: zohn | August 30, 2007 12:21 PM
Zohn, who's Stuart Rivar? ;^)
(I did the same thing.)
Posted by: Mena | August 30, 2007 12:22 PM
Mena, I never even noticed that the name is Stuart Rivar!! Hmmm...I wonder who this person is...notice the very similar books:
Stuart Pivar - LifeCode: The Theory of Biological Self Organization
Stuart Rivar - Lifecode: From Egg to Embryo by Self-Organization
:-P
Posted by: zohn | August 30, 2007 12:28 PM
Amazon lists "Lifecode" as being "No longer available". as of this morning. Must have sold out.
If Pivar wants to get his sales up, he should get the tome listed as part the official Scientology canon. I'm sure they would do it for a sufficiently large check.
Posted by: Bert Chadick | August 30, 2007 12:34 PM
Damn. Daily Kos didn't link to me. For a minute there, I thought I'd be facing a melting server.
Posted by: Blake Stacey | August 30, 2007 12:35 PM
Bert Chadick, you're in luck! For less than half the price at $24.95, you can get Lifecode: From Egg to Embryo by Self-Organization by Stuart Rivar!! Even thought it's not the authentic Pivar but rather the cheap knock-off Rivar, the contents are guaranteed to be just as 'enlightening' :-P.
Posted by: zohn | August 30, 2007 12:44 PM
I didn't know PZ hated verbal abuse...
Posted by: garth | August 30, 2007 12:45 PM
D'oh! Read that as "Even though"...
Posted by: zohn | August 30, 2007 12:46 PM
Bert - that's the old version, the new one is still up for sale. The old one has all of the reviews and comments, though.
Posted by: Carlie | August 30, 2007 12:48 PM
I'd say Pivars fate was pretty much sealed after PZ's review. But I posted it on a DK for a couple of reasons. Regardless of how anyone feels about Pivar's views, PZ was solidly within his purview in reviewing a book on evo-devo and it was a comprehensive, substance oriented, honest critique to boot.
And as another poster pointed out: Seed Media might be able to provide Dr Myers some legal resources -- although there's always the possibility of personal exposure. I have Daily Kos backing me up. PZ and I are fortunate in that respect. But this creep has made quite a habit out of filing these kinds of claims, and most bloggers are just part-time writers blogging on their lonesome. Based on what I've read about Mr Pivar's past, he strikes me as spoiled thug looking to throw his money around like a playground bully. That kind of bullying back up with Pivar's wealth could literally ruin someone's life and affect their entire family. It seems worth risking that Pivar might sell ten more copies of his tome to warn others about his thuggish proclivities.
He could have kept his responses to PZ's concerns right here on Pharyngula, he could have created his own website and responded to his heart's delight there, he could have used his considerable wealth to pursue other, traditional lines of response which are unavailable to most people, up to and including underwriting his own research grant, hiring a team of researchers, and engaging in legit discovery with an eye toward publishing in peer reviewed journals. He rejected all those civil, legitimate approaches and instead opted for sleazy legal intimidation. It just happened that this time Pivar picked PZ to try and intimidate. That was a pretty stupid move.
Posted by: DarkSyde | August 30, 2007 1:41 PM
In the scientific community, "peer-review" is a specific process. This "blog" may not be "peer-reviewed" in that sense, but it certainly comes close to being "peer-reviewed" in the literal definition.
I'd be more than happy to call PZ to task for something I read on his blog. So far, I have not found the need to do so.
As for the book, he'll laugh all the way to the bank. His sales may not be stunning or lasting, but they're sure to show a brief peak.
Even negative publicity generates interest. He's also get the self-thought-criming crowd who will hear criticism from the scientific community as a glowing recommendation. They'll be happy with their purchase, too, knowing that if "they" hate it, it *must* be true.
Posted by: Frac | August 30, 2007 1:42 PM
If other creationists start emulating Pivar's tactics, does that mean we should start referring to them as the Pivarati?
Posted by: Boosterz | August 30, 2007 1:44 PM
In the scientific community, "peer-review" is a specific process. This "blog" may not be "peer-reviewed" in that sense, but it certainly comes close to being "peer-reviewed" in the literal definition.
I was referring to UD. At UD, 'passing peer review' means 'Bill Dembski and Dave Scot decided not to ban you'.
I'm not aware of ANYTHING in ID which undergoes anything like a scientific peer review process -- unless you're count that ID journal that hasn't published anything in 2 years.
Posted by: George Cauldron | August 30, 2007 2:34 PM
Bert Chadick, you're in luck! For less than half the price at $24.95, you can get Lifecode: From Egg to Embryo by Self-Organization by Stuart Rivar!! Even thought it's not the authentic Pivar but rather the cheap knock-off Rivar, the contents are guaranteed to be just as 'enlightening' :-P.
"Do you have Sale of Two Titties, by Dykkens---the well-known Dutch author---that's 'Dykkens' with two 'k's..."
Posted by: Scott Hatfield, OM | August 30, 2007 3:55 PM
Boosterz, if Pivarati are the creationists/litigants, then we might consider calling their well-paid lawyers - lawyerazzi?
You want some law? Pay a lawyer, and pay her plenty.
Posted by: gerald spezio | August 30, 2007 4:01 PM
Looks like the publicity has worked well, at least for Stuart Rivar...amazon.com displays "Only 1 left in stock--order soon (more on the way)."!!
Posted by: zohn | August 30, 2007 4:16 PM
Looks like that one copy sold, too:
I probably wouldn't want to sell a book by a lawsuit-obsessed crackpot, either.
Posted by: TheBlackCat | August 30, 2007 4:27 PM
Could someone who is already an Amazon customer please add the tag "pretentious flapdoodle"?
The word "flapdoodle" needs more exposure.
Y'know, Pivar could have sold some of these books simply by not trying to market it as actual science. Had he subtitled it "A Topological Biofantasy" or something similar, he could have marketed the book by harping on its strengths in his real area of expertise, visual aesthetics, and emphasized that the surreal imagery was actually intended to explore the intersection of biological development and dreams.
If he had replaced the text with something beautifully calligraphic, and perhaps not even in any language known to man, he might have produced another Codex Seraphinianus.
Instead, well... classic crackpot!
Posted by: Owlmirror | August 30, 2007 6:03 PM
Si tacuisset, philosophus mansisset.
LOL!
Posted by: David Marjanović | August 30, 2007 6:51 PM
Heck, with this kind of notoriety for Pivar, can it be long before the Discovery Institute offers him a position as a "fellow?"
Posted by: Ed Darrell | August 30, 2007 9:03 PM
I feel quite strongly about this episode of Babes in Toyland. That is, the fools whose two-dimensional view of the world and ignorance of basic rules of behavior (demonstrated and codified in common law), are a real and constant threat to constructive, productive and sane society.
I've been reading Ed Brayton's indictment of Pivar and Little and I posted the following. Thought I'd be so bold as to post it here as well.
"Bravo and 'atta boy, Ed. You did most certainly tell them. Your words carry not only the weight of fact and reason but the pent up feelings of so many of us. Your outrage at this display of schoolyard bullying, sophomoric braggadocio and self-centered grandstanding is a welcome, I hope widely heard, retort to the wearisome and tedious jaberwoky that these cretins and their fellow believers never seem to tire of.
"In standing the Golden Rule on its head these two knuckleheads abuse and trample the goodwill of honest and thoughtful people everywhere. For them to even suggest, for the most fleeting moment, that they would resort to courts and tort to respond to unflattering criticism is not only contrary to the basic tenets of their faiths, but also to everything I ever learned about being human, or civilized, or American.
"I really don't want to wish them ill, but I can imagine how good it would feel if I knew that they were roasting in the dread heat of humiliation and dishonor.
"Thank you for your straight-forward indictment. You are often near eloquent. This time you embody eloquence. Thanks, from many."
PZ, I also share with you a fleeting, but needful satisfaction. It's a good satisfaction. If I associate this feeling with a sound, it would be the sound that a crab's shell makes within the embrace of the octopus.
Posted by: Crudely Wrott | August 31, 2007 12:54 AM
this comment about myself is complete rubbish:
"We do have the parallel case here in France, with Vincent Fleury's "From egg to eternity, the arrow of evolution", claiming that everything is "physics" in evolution, and Jean Staune, one of the John Templeton Foundation agents, claiming that Fleury's theory could be a proof that Darwin was wrong, and that Teilhard de Chardin's Omega point exists.
"
Dear Mr Myers this comment by "Oldcola" is defamatory.
I am a mainstream scientist working normally in a normal lab at Université de Rennes here in France; I do not deserve being scorned like that in any web site, especially yours.
I claim that the laws of physics impart a much stronger constraint on the possible shapes that nature may evolve, and that pushed to the limits such models show that development is a physical process whose parameters are given by the physical properties of biomolecules. Once the dimensionless form of the development is known, the succession of shapes in the space of geometry may be known, independently of the chronology. I show especailly how skulls are modified as the parameters of the blastula winding change. All quite serious.
My work, and book, has nothing to do with God, nor with creationism it is just scientific stuff. There is by the way plenty of work now around the question of the mechanical basis of development, see for example the entire issue of International Journal of Devlopment "morphodynamics"
edited by Belousov and Gordon, Vol. 50, pp77-368 (2006)
So please either remove this ridiculous and defamatory message by Mr Oldcola, or read my book, or both.
You should be more careful about the comments you allow on your site, especially when it comes to commenting about people whose name will appear for ever on this site with whatever stupid comment anyone may feel to drop.
With my best regards
Vincent Fleury
by the way I have a web site
http://wwww.gmcm.univ-rennes1.fr/vincentfleury
Posted by: vincent fleury | September 22, 2007 5:57 PM