…and this is a 
Where can I get a creationist degree?
Category: Kooks
Posted on: September 11, 2007 6:00 PM, by PZ Myers
On eBay, obviously!
The source is the PL Institute of Space Technologies. It's an amazing place that offers undergraduate and graduate degrees in "Creationist in Sciences" (a Cr.S. degree is not equivalent to a bachelor's degree, they say), and also carries out research in these fields:
- Creational Healing: We develop a new kind of healing method.
- Electrical Engineering: We develop and use a new kind of semiconductor technology mainly based on silicon, copper and oxygen, and we search for new energy systems, etc.
- Minor-System-Technology: This environmentally sustainable technology uses a minimum of resources to solve problems perfectly.
- Polycultural Engineering: We develop a new kind of agriculture based on balanced ecological systems.
- Spacecraft Engineering: We develop minor probes and new kinds of drives using principles of alternative physics. The far distant goal is to develop and to realize a generation spaceship for a God-fearing community.
- Theological Cosmology: Research of the deeper knowledge in astronomy and exobiology.
- Mathematics: Research of the deeper knowledge in holistic mathematics.
- Theology: Practicing and teaching of down-to-earth Christianity based on the Holy Bible.
"They" are using the plural pronoun, but I'm afraid I get the impression that it's actually a singular fellow talking to himself in his garage. His biography page says that he's not certain that he's not a fruitcake and that he has a B.S. in electrical engineering. Shhhh, don't make a big deal of it, the engineers are always embarrassed when another creationist engineer staggers out of the utility closet.
Comments
the engineers are always embarrassed when another creationist engineer staggers out of the utility closet
you mean the Bat Cave?
Posted by: Ichthyic | September 11, 2007 6:02 PM
OK, see he's not a True Engineer.
Posted by: True Bob | September 11, 2007 6:12 PM
Wait... Spaceships for God-fearing people? I thought Xenu already took care of that sort of thing.
Posted by: Dan | September 11, 2007 6:13 PM
"The far distant goal is to develop and to realize a generation spaceship for a God-fearing community. "
Captain's Log: All systems running smoothly, all hibernacula at optimum temperature. All-what the? Holy crap! GOD off the starboard bow! Houston, we have a problem! Initiate full retreat! MOMMYYYY!!
Posted by: Rey Fox | September 11, 2007 6:14 PM
Oh, that's just sad.
Posted by: woozy | September 11, 2007 6:15 PM
Underpants!!!
Posted by: Moses | September 11, 2007 6:20 PM
This guy is low-hanging fruit, not worth engaging.
Posted by: Davis | September 11, 2007 6:23 PM
"The far distant goal is to develop and to realize a generation spaceship for a God-fearing community."
Round 'em up and ship 'em out. What's not to like? :)
(And the really cool & ironic thing would be that slow interstellar transport is the most likely way for humans to speciate.)
Posted by: N.Wells | September 11, 2007 6:25 PM
Pet peeve alert!
"Singular" is not a fancy way of saying "single".
Singular: extraordinary; remarkable; exceptional: a singular success.
Single: only one in number; one only; unique; sole: a single example.
Posted by: No More Mr. Nice Guy! | September 11, 2007 6:25 PM
I noticed you can also get a "Creationist in Politics" degree. I can see how a creationist would consider creationism relevant to the sciences. But politics?
Posted by: Ben D | September 11, 2007 6:25 PM
Morgan's Law.
Posted by: David Marjanović | September 11, 2007 6:25 PM
Not only is this a cutting edge website, but what a steal for only $550!
I like this quote:
"'Bachelor' and other degrees and diplomas make people powerful, but our degrees and diplomas make them down-to-earth"
Huh?
Posted by: Steve P | September 11, 2007 6:26 PM
I don't much about spacecraft engineering, but I do read a lot of science fiction. The problem with generation ships is that after a couple of generations, the on-board civilization always collapses, and order gets restored by a dogmatic religious cult. Forever after, if you claim that there's anything outside of Sh'ip, or otherwise contradict the Sacred Writings of Ca'pt'ain, then you're convicted of heresy and burned at the stake.
But if you started the voyage with a dogmatic religious cult, then maybe the replacement civilization would be created by pragmatic realists who value critical thinking? I'm not sure, but it might be worth running the experiment.
Posted by: chaos_engineer | September 11, 2007 6:31 PM
Too bad he doesn't speak "Jxylcrpwnyx," we could have had a fascinating conversation about hgduehw, and compared notes on the upcoming Wycthsbsajx 2008!
Posted by: DaveX | September 11, 2007 6:32 PM
Now don't be too hasty. There's always the chance this fellow could be a real life John Barlow.
Posted by: Gelf | September 11, 2007 6:33 PM
N. Wells:
I just had this scary vision of a future human subspecies of Reaver-like creatures, except where instead of eating and raping you to death, they latch onto other spaceships, board, and begin bludgeoning the passengers with Bibles.
Although I suppose they might still eat people too. They already have that whole weird quasi-cannabalism thing going on.
Posted by: DiscGrace | September 11, 2007 6:35 PM
Wow. That's imagination.
"Polycultural Engineering"? What do those words have anything to do with a new kind of agriculture based on balanced ecological systems... balanced ecological systems like the untamed Amazon jungle? WTF is he talking about??
What is "alternative physics"? Is this like alternative medicine? What's a generation spaceship? Wait--he's proposing that a bunch of worthy Christians should go to outer space? Dude !! How can I give them ALL my money??
What's exobiology? What's holistic mathematics?
And what problems will they be solving "perfectly" with Minor-System-Technology? Minor problems?
Oh Bloody Zeus on Pluto my frontal lobe is going to combust please deliver me to a different spot on the universe far away from such nutjobs!!
Posted by: Inky | September 11, 2007 6:37 PM
Is transubstantiation symmetric? If a Christian turns cannibal, do the people turn into saltines and grape juice in his gullet?
Posted by: Gelf | September 11, 2007 6:41 PM
... you guys... you guys need to check out his website and click on the link for "Wide-Mouth-Frog". Everyone do it. I was confused before, but ... that just ... that just fused all my neural circuits together.
Posted by: Inky | September 11, 2007 6:41 PM
It sounds to me like this one belongs in the "Aluminum Foil Hat" Club.
New drive technology based on alternative physics? Maybe we should submit a proposal for an infinite improbability drive.
Posted by: Tony Popple | September 11, 2007 6:42 PM
Posted by: RBH | September 11, 2007 6:44 PM
"Alternative physics". That's rich. The spacecraft are probably powered by perpetual motion machines.
Posted by: Cappy | September 11, 2007 6:46 PM
Are fundagelicals allowed to plan far enough into the future for space-colonization? What does that say about their faith that Jebus is coming back any day now?
Posted by: Justin H. | September 11, 2007 6:47 PM
Uhh Inky... I hate to break it to you, but he's not making up Generation ships or exobiology.
Generation ships are a proposed way to deal with the light speed limit. Since even relatively close by stars would be hard to reach in a human life time instead you send a ship full of colonists in a ship that is capable of sustaining mulitple generations of colonists. The orginal crew will all be dead of old age by the time they reach their intended destination but they're several times over great grandchildren will be able to colonise the new planet.
Exobiology (also called astrobiology or cosmobiology) is the currently hypothetical study of extra-terrestrial life forms. It's not currently considered a true member of the sceinces but that's mostly becuase of lack of hard data to work with. At the moment it's mostly wild speculation.
And if that post was a joke and I didn't get it, apologies. My irony meter has been under a lot of strain lately and isn't working all that well.
Posted by: Knight of L-sama | September 11, 2007 6:49 PM
Hay, Knight, thanks for the info.
Nonetheless, a generation spaceship and studying extraterrestrial life forms are pretty FREAKING AMBITIOUS goals for one dude that can give you a "degree" without a diploma* that wouldn't be accepted by anyone other than God-fearing bosses?
It was my total brain meltdown talking.
*On his site his "institution" awards degrees for completion of undergraduate courses, and diplomas for postgraduate courses.
Posted by: inky | September 11, 2007 6:56 PM
"Polycultural Engineering"? What do those words have anything to do with a new kind of agriculture based on balanced ecological systems... balanced ecological systems like the untamed Amazon jungle? WTF is he talking about??
Actually, he's almost using correct words there, *almost* being the important term. Monoculture describes most of American farming, with only a single crop. Causes loads of ecological problems. Polyculture would then be growing many different kinds of crops, usually in rotation. Keeps the nutrients in balance. Corn takes out nitrogen, soy puts it back, that kind of thing.
Posted by: Carlie | September 11, 2007 6:56 PM
You gentlemen have clearly not read my many publications in the evening post about this very topic of Jesus Powered Space Conveyance and Healing by Faith. Indeed I have published with my dear relative Jonathon Von Post on many occasions about these very topics. Alas, I was the first to speak of these wondrous educational opportunities in my many many many detailed publications with many famous people.
I fare thee good bye kind gentlemen!
Posted by: Garibaldi's Underwear | September 11, 2007 6:57 PM
I am happy to be a frog!, but what about PIGMIES+DWARFS!
Posted by: Stephen | September 11, 2007 6:58 PM
Oohh.. I am such a thorough bounder. I have misspelled my gentle relatives name. It is Vos Post!
I implore your forgiveness dear fellows.
Posted by: Garibaldi's Underwear | September 11, 2007 7:00 PM
Inky, I hate you. It's going to take days for my brain to recover from the wide-mouth frog.
Posted by: Carlie | September 11, 2007 7:02 PM
Rey Fox@4, obviously they've stumbled into Frank Herbert's _Destination: Void_, in which we learn how to build a psychotic AI using 1950s-level computing technology (plugboards, no less) which of course decides that it is God as soon as it awakens. (Let's not even *discuss* the sequel. At least the environment was pleasantly claustrophobic in the first book.)
Posted by: Nix | September 11, 2007 7:09 PM
It's really the way he writes these subjects that's key.
Environmentally friendly agriculture and exobiology are obviously legitimate areas of study, but pair that next to Theological Cosmology and solving any problem "perfectly", all from some dude who can't speak jxylcrpwnyx
... do you think that maybe this is a prank site?
Posted by: Inky | September 11, 2007 7:11 PM
Carlie,
don't kill the messenger, man!
I was so ... (insert some sort of appropriate adjective expressing utter dismay at the depths of outlandish stupidity displayed) that I was *fixated* on the page, my eyes roaming over and over between the frogs and the news snippet over and over, my brain desperately hoping for some grain of sanity to cling to.
Alas, there was none.
Posted by: Inky | September 11, 2007 7:15 PM
I think we should all get these degrees. Then every time someone points to Behe or some engineer and says "well gee, these 'scientists' learned evolution, but they accept creation" we can say there are just as many folks with "degrees" in creation science who reject it and accept evolution.
As soon as someone else wants to pay for it I'll claim mine.
Posted by: dcwp | September 11, 2007 7:18 PM
I'm sorry, I'm laughing so hard I can't respondl..o0==;;o=-=ll
Posted by: Duff | September 11, 2007 7:27 PM
I repeat: Morgan's Law states that any sufficiently advanced parody is indistinguishable from a genuine kook. Sure, if this is a parody -- and I think it is -- it's not very advanced, but the kooks have gone far to meet it anyway...
Posted by: David Marjanović | September 11, 2007 7:30 PM
[i] the engineers are always embarrassed when another creationist engineer staggers out of the utility closet.
[/i]
Indeed... we've got one here at work. Likeable fellow - seriously, I enjoy talking to him - but he has this little blind spot about evolution, and believes the Bible is the only inerrant thing ever written, and...
I never thought I'd meet a true Creationist here in Australia - and it's kinda embarrassing that he's an engineer...
Posted by: Anon | September 11, 2007 7:34 PM
I think you can safely call this one a crackpot.
Posted by: AlanWCan | September 11, 2007 7:37 PM
Inky (and others):
It's Hyperdimensional!
Posted by: ZorkFox | September 11, 2007 7:46 PM
"...the engineers are always embarrassed when another creationist engineer staggers out of the utility closet."
Ironic. Upon my de-conversion, the second Christian who contacted me wanting to know "what happened" was an engineer. The conversation, after I told him "there's no evidence," quickly devolved into, "oh yeah, then how did everything get here?!?" *sigh*
Posted by: Paul | September 11, 2007 7:54 PM
Oh my, he's using Gould's Non-Overlapping Magisteria on Science. Two complementary kinds of science, not in conflict, but examining the same physical world and coming up with two different -- what? Interpretations? But not in conflict. No. Because Creationism science is an "additional and complemental branch" which is not forced on others but is, instead, a "kinder and gentler way."
It's as if this guy has merged the Bible with New Age Spiritual speak.
Posted by: Sastra | September 11, 2007 7:56 PM
"the engineers are always embarrassed when another creationist engineer staggers out of the utility closet."
That's not my goddamn utility closet. I run a clean facility here.
Posted by: s9 | September 11, 2007 7:59 PM
I noted on eBay that in the last 9+ months his course has sold exactly......Wait for it............. None, zip, NADA, the nul set, not one cent's worth of creation science degrees.
Now I feel all dirty, like after beating up a crippled kitten. You know the feeling.
Posted by: Bert Chadick | September 11, 2007 8:03 PM
No, and please don't describe it.
Posted by: noncarborundum | September 11, 2007 8:40 PM
Creationist in Sciences (Cr.S.) Cr.S = Can't remember Shit.
Sounds about right.
Posted by: Joe McFaul | September 11, 2007 8:45 PM
I got my degree in cryptography from the inside of a cracker jack box. A decoder ring was my prize. Now I'm qualified to work at the Pentagon and Liberty University.
Posted by: MarcusA | September 11, 2007 8:57 PM
Anyone else notice that the "target group" for the Institute includes "native humans?" How unfortunate for those born on the generation spaceships.
Posted by: SDEJ | September 11, 2007 9:41 PM
Wow! A whole course of study designed to make a person stupider.
To round out the offerings, Pete, why not offer a free course in electroshock therapy!
Posted by: CalGeorge | September 11, 2007 9:57 PM
"'Bachelor' and other degrees and diplomas make people powerful..."
Really? Sa-weet! I was wondering why I suddenly had laser eye-beams. Does flight kick in after the Master's level, or is that purely a PhD power?
Posted by: Tessa | September 11, 2007 10:19 PM
Getting an E.E. will do this to you.
Posted by: John Vreeland | September 11, 2007 10:36 PM
What's with the "wide mouth" frog he's got on one webpage?
Posted by: Bob L | September 11, 2007 10:47 PM
Sorry, can't resist:
[MarvinGaye]And when I get that feeling
I want Creational Healing
Creational Healing, oh baby
Makes me feel so fine
Helps to relieve my mind...[/MarvinGaye]
...slinking away...
Posted by: Bill Dauphin | September 11, 2007 11:08 PM
Oh, Peter Lay again.
Hmm. Shouldn't "holistic mathematics" be "holy math"?
And "semiconductor technology mainly based on silicon, copper and oxygen", ehrm, ..., silicon, ..., silicon and oxygen, ..., oh, maybe he means silicon technology with silicon dioxide insulation and copper wires. He must have read and half understood a popular description.
Actually, I think most engineers come out of academic programs. But stagger, sure, some might do that. :-P
Posted by: Torbjörn Larsson, OM | September 11, 2007 11:14 PM
No. I think you have to be at least a fourth-level dungeon master for Powers of Flight.
Posted by: Tex | September 12, 2007 12:02 AM
I guess polycultural engineering means growing parrots in vast vats. I wonder in Grrlscientist wants a job.
Bob
Posted by: Bob O'H | September 12, 2007 1:07 AM
It doesn't appear that he has any kind of engineering degree. He says that he was a technician, and then took various courses (one of which was "environmental and process engineering"), but claims his BS degree from Commonwealth Open University; there's a link to their website. It appears to be a distance learning college, and it doesn't offer any undergraduate engineering degrees.
Posted by: Brain Hertz | September 12, 2007 2:07 AM
I would trust him to repair an complex telephone equipment, specially if it was made by Telefunken. He also seems qualified to grant degrees in Creativist Relativity and Creativist Nuclear Physics. We engineers all are.
Posted by: jaim klein | September 12, 2007 2:11 AM
Check out his book on Amazon by searching for Peter Lay `Advanced Theory of Relativity'. I love the 6 comments that all give him the maximum number of stars. Note the publishing company is some subsidiary of Amazon who handle self-publishing.
Michael
Posted by: Michael | September 12, 2007 4:20 AM
Here is a story of some brave apostates of Islam.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2426314.ece
"A group of young Muslim apostates launches a campaign today, the anniversary of the 9/11 attacks on America, to make it easier to renounce Islam.
The provocative move reflects a growing rift between traditionalists and a younger generation raised on a diet of Dutch tolerance.
The Committee for Ex-Muslims promises to campaign for freedom of religion but has already upset the Islamic and political Establishments for stirring tensions among the million-strong Muslim community in the Netherlands.
Ehsan Jami, the committee's founder, who rejected Islam after the attack on the twin towers in 2001, has become the most talked-about public figure in the Netherlands. He has been forced into hiding after a series of death threats and a recent attack."
Posted by: bernarda | September 12, 2007 6:02 AM
Funny how the NL should have become such a hotspot for (threats of) political violence.
Posted by: Nescio | September 12, 2007 6:13 AM
And it looks like 6 of their 8 degrees require more mathematics than biology. Zing!
I'll take that engineer jab Myers, & raise you a math envy of creationists!
Posted by: mxracer652 | September 12, 2007 7:57 AM
Posted by: True Bob | September 12, 2007 8:13 AM
I must be drunk - can't even close blockquotes
Posted by: True Bob | September 12, 2007 8:14 AM
The creationist degree would only take six days to obtain, and on the seventh you can put a pic on your website and proudly say I CAN HAS SHIT DEGREE.
Posted by: lunartalks | September 12, 2007 8:15 AM
"The far distant goal is to develop and to realize a generation spaceship for a God-fearing community."
Lets name it the
B-Ark
Posted by: Marc Geerlings | September 12, 2007 8:48 AM
I think I found the reference material for the Wide-Mouthed Frog. IIRC, my Mom liked to read it to her first grade students.
http://www.amazon.com/Wide-Mouthed-Frog-POP-UP-BOOK/dp/0803718756/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-1771527-4017454
Do you suppose the book for his distance learning course is a pop up too?
Posted by: Airmon | September 12, 2007 9:39 AM
Somehow, this has been overlooked:
"The institute's grading system is
A=81...100=superior
B=61...80=above average
C=41...60=passing
D=21...40=poor
F=0...20=failure.
For graduation a grade of C or better is required."
So, you only need to learn 41% or better to become an expert on made up crap.
Posted by: Doug | September 12, 2007 9:53 AM
It's really depressing to think of how I've wasted my life. I've spent over three decades either serving my country in the military or working to attain various degrees. And here in the last couple of years I've learned that all I really had to do was slap a yellow magnetic sticker on my SUV (OK, I'd have to buy one first) and give somebody $550.00 bucks for a piece of paper to attain the same thing. What a dolt I am!
Posted by: Dahan | September 12, 2007 10:27 AM
Perhaps "wide-mouthed frog" is a euphemism for one of his naughtier bits- you know, the one through which he seems to speak? That or he's been downed one too many Mickey's Big Mouth Malt Liquors.
Posted by: raindogzilla | September 12, 2007 10:32 AM
At least they've stopped the "Molestation of Little Boys" curriculum.
Posted by: Caucasian Jesus | September 12, 2007 10:34 AM
"The spacecraft are probably powered by perpetual motion machines."
You kid, but if you take a look at his postgraduate "Scientific Extension" course, he offers modules in the Advanced Theory of Relativity and Free Energy. If that isn't enough, these animated GIFs of frogs make me sure that this institution is right up there with Cambridge and Yale.
I think that it pretty much sums up creationism when it says that in order to be a creationist, you needn't bother with such inconveniences as, oh, going to school or reading any books.
Posted by: Tom Morris | September 12, 2007 10:40 AM
He's a creationist and a UFOlogist?
Funny.
Posted by: Steve_C | September 12, 2007 11:22 AM
He's a creationist and a UFOlogist?
Funny.
Posted by: Steve_C | September 12, 2007 11:24 AM
You can also get a degree in "Creationist in Politics (Cr.P.)".
All together now: Holy Crap.
Thank you. I'll be at the Hyatt next Tuesday.
Posted by: MikeM | September 12, 2007 1:16 PM
Re: #54 "... No. I think you have to be at least a fourth-level dungeon master for Powers of Flight."
[Cingular commercial]"Dungeon Masters don't have levels!" "What a dork!"[/Cingular commercial]
Posted by: CortxVortx | September 12, 2007 1:16 PM
If I continue with my engineering degree, will I start believing in god?
Posted by: Jewbacchus | September 12, 2007 1:49 PM
No Power of Flight with a PhD at all.
That gets only Walk on Water.
Flight is automatic for Tenure; subsection Off the Handle.
Posted by: Skeptic8 | September 12, 2007 2:17 PM
Jewbacchus, only if you believe now.
BME
Posted by: True Bob | September 12, 2007 2:49 PM
We're all (reasonably) clever guys, right? Who can quickly code some html for an Intelligent Design degree (leave the jokes to you) then Googlebomb it to No1? C'mon, we CAN take that hill...
Posted by: stmarnock | September 12, 2007 3:06 PM
Cr. S. would also be about the right abbreviation for "Crock of Sh*t", a degree, I would value every bit as much as the Creative Denialist or whatever degree it was.
Posted by: greensmile | September 12, 2007 4:24 PM
What I want is a degree from the University of Ediacara (or Edicaria, I'm not fussy).
Posted by: Monado | September 13, 2007 2:27 AM
Hot damn, sign me up!
Posted by: pradeep1 | September 13, 2007 2:45 AM
Jees. I thought it would be cheaper than that. Can't I just download one to print off?
Posted by: Automath | September 13, 2007 8:59 AM