Seed Media Group

Pharyngula

Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal

Search

Profile

pzm_profile_pic.jpg
PZ Myers is a biologist and associate professor at the University of Minnesota, Morris.
zf_pharyngula.jpg …and this is a pharyngula stage embryo.
a longer profile of yours truly
my calendar
Nature Network
RichardDawkins Network
facebook
MySpace
Twitter
Atheist Nexus
the Pharyngula chat room
(#pharyngula on irc.synirc.net)

I reserve the right to publicly post, with full identifying information about the source, any email sent to me that contains threats of violence.

tbbadge.gif
scarlet_A.png
I support Americans United for Separation of Church and State.

Random Quote

(Complete listing)

It is not guilt or innocence, or even justice itself that drives our prosecutorial criminal justice system, it is the political advantage gained by winning.

Rack Jite

Recent Posts

A Taste of Pharyngula

(Complete listing)

Recent Comments

Archives

Blogroll

(Complete listing)

Other Information

Subscribe via Email

Stay abreast of your favorite bloggers' latest and greatest via e-mail, via a daily digest.

Sign me up!

« Crazy | Main | Wilkins teases us »

Tara beat me to the Taz story

Category: Environment
Posted on: November 18, 2007 11:34 AM, by PZ Myers

After urging you all to do something to save the Tasmanian devil, I discover now that Tara wrote about DFTD last month. I guess I have to work harder to keep up with all these science bloggers.

TrackBacks

(TrackBack URL for this entry: )

Comments

#1

Well, to give credit where it's due, afarensis also covered it awhile back as did Grrl (both citing news stories), and Carl had an excellent post on the similar phenomenon in dogs, Stickler's sarcoma (canine transmissible venereal tumor [CTVT]), starting his post off with what I think is the most interesting part of all this: "Can a tumor become a new form of life?" Fascinating stuff, though too bad it hadn't emerged in rats or something instead of an endangered species...

Posted by: Tara C. Smith | November 18, 2007 12:06 PM

#2

On other threads, I maintained that the TDFT is a speciation event. In which case, we are witnessing the creation of a new species in real time. An event that the creos consistently claim doesn't happen. I can't see any holes in my logic and a few other posters agreed. Anyone see any holes here?

You could make a case that the TDFT is a speciation event. This tumor is behaving like any other pathogen, viral, protozoal, etc.. We aren't used to thinking of mammalian cells as pathogens but so what. In this case, once one makes this viewpoint shift with justification, speciation becomes defensible. Ditto the canine case.

repost from PT:


The other point I was trying to make:

Given that the TDFT behaves like any other pathogen. And has a unique genome, albeit one derived by rearrangements and mutations from its predecessor, the T. Devil, and falls under the definition of life, it could be considered a new species of organism.

Posted by: raven | November 18, 2007 12:30 PM

#3

raven: "Anyone see any holes here?"

Nope. In fact, even before Zimmer published his 8/9/07 post on DFTD and CTVT I wrote (in private correspondence) that this is a speciation event, a change in level of selection (somatic to individual), and phyletic change from vertebrate organization to pseudo-protist.

Posted by: Colugo | November 18, 2007 12:43 PM

#4

I mean Zimmer's 8/9/06 post.

Posted by: Colugo | November 18, 2007 12:44 PM

#5

Colugo--you also made the comment over at Sciencegrrl's blog back in February--see the link in Tara's comment above.

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | November 18, 2007 12:52 PM

#6

Thanks Sven.

The same thing must have happened in the origin of viruses and prions: replicating ultraselfish entities became transmissible, thus escaping the fate of the host's disposable soma.

The reverse phenomenon is a parasitic entity (ERVs, Wolbachia, mitochondria, lichen fungi) incorporating itself into the germline of an unrelated host.

Posted by: Colugo | November 18, 2007 1:25 PM

#7
On other threads, I maintained that the TDFT is a speciation event. In which case, we are witnessing the creation of a new species in real time. An event that the creos consistently claim doesn't happen. I can't see any holes in my logic and a few other posters agreed. Anyone see any holes here?

Under most species concepts I can't. Maybe under all. I don't know all 25-upwards of them...

Indeed, someone gave a genus and species name to the HeLa cells.

Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | November 18, 2007 3:14 PM

#8
replicating ultraselfish entities became transmissible

Not to worry. It's part of God's Plan, after all.

Posted by: Kseniya | November 18, 2007 11:34 PM

#9

Constantine (2005):

Angela: "I guess God has a plan for all of us."

Constantine: "God's a kid with an ant farm, lady. He's not planning anything."

--------------

Anyone remember The Thing and The Blob's marshmallowy cousin, The Stuff?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Stuff

Posted by: Colugo | November 19, 2007 12:10 AM

Post a Comment

(Email is required for authentication purposes only. Comments are moderated for spam, your comment may not appear immediately. Thanks for waiting.)





Having problems commenting? (UPDATED)

Blogs in the Network

Advertisement

Top Five: Readers' Picks

Search All Blogs

Science News From:

Science News from NYTimes.com