…and this is a 
Florida and Texas going at it
Category: Creationism
Posted on: December 10, 2007 10:55 AM, by PZ Myers
There are some rational people in Florida, as Robyn Blumner's column makes clear. Not only does she mock Texas for their foolish harrassment of Christine Comer, but she goes on to point out the disastrous consequences of Republican religious meddling, and that Huckabee is going to be more of the same.
Here is something scary-ignorant. Last week, the Web site ChristiaNet.com, which bills itself as "the world's largest Christian portal," cheered the results of a survey it took finding that half of its 1,400 Christian respondents said that dinosaurs and man roamed the Earth at the same time.
Putting aside that the schoolteachers of these people should be slapped silly, these are Huckabee's peeps. We can't afford to put this kind of backward thinking and scientific illiteracy in the driver's seat again.
That also highlights one of the sources of the problem: that these Christwits are proud of their ignorance.
And speaking of Chris Comer, the TEA education commissioner, Robert Scott, has spoken up. It's nothing new, but is what you'd expect: denial. He claims there are no litmus tests for political ideology at the TEA, and that religion is irrelevant, and that Comer had a history of personnel problems that lead to her dismissal.
Here are the concluding questions of the interview, where it all gets very confusing.
Was her advocacy of evolution over creationism an element in her dismissal?
She wasn't advocating anything. My understanding is that the e-mail she forwarded - let me rephrase that. She wasn't advocating for evolution. But she may have given the impression that ... we were taking a position as an agency - not as an individual but as an agency - on a matter.
She wasn't advocating for evolution, OK. So why was she called into meetings to discuss the problem of forwarding this email, and why was she pressured by human resources to quit? And what "matter" caused the problem, then? I get the impression that Mr Scott is lying clumsily to obscure the actual issues involved.
And this, of course, is a good question:
Why shouldn't the agency advocate the science of evolution? Texas students are required to study it.
I don't think the impression was that we were taking a position in favor of evolution. We teach evolution in public schools. It's part of our curriculum. But you can be in favor of a science without bashing people's faith, too. I don't know all the facts, but I think that may be the real issue here. I can't speak to motivation but ... we have standards of conduct and expect those standards of conduct to be followed.
I don't get the impression that the TEA is favoring evolution, either, more shame to them. The rest — accusation of faith-bashing and violated standards of conduct — is simply more desperate floundering to cover what is turning into a major gaffe by the creationists.
Politics
Comments
Comrade Scott is just lying. Creos lie, lie, and then lie some more. How else can they pretend that 2 pages of 4,000 year old mythology explains the real world better than 150 years of science.
Comer was at the TEA for 9 years and rose to head of the Science Curriculum. Then they found some personnel problems when the religious fanatics took over. Yeah, she accepted reality.
These people are evil.
Posted by: raven | December 10, 2007 11:09 AM
Here's another kick in the pants...it seems that when a similar thing happened in Florida, only with the education official who used an e-mail from her personal account to other people to get them to oppose evolution was in the draft of the state's science standards, she was only reprimanded, not canned. Link.
Aren't the religious right wackos the ones always complaining about persecution?
Posted by: Reynold | December 10, 2007 11:17 AM
I just took a quiz at ChristiaNet.com. To quote Wolfgang Pauli, "It's so bad, it's not even wrong!". Many of the answers don't even follow from their own absurd biblical logic and I was unable to avoid getting 12% correct. With morons like this in a near majority, is there any hope for this country? Well at least Mitt Romney's magic underwear seems not to be working.
Posted by: Sceptical Chymist | December 10, 2007 11:19 AM
I posted this once but it is relevant. Texas is an abstinence only state. They also have a teen pregnancy rate much higher than the national average. It isn't going down and nationwide the teen pregnancy rate and STD rates are going up.
The theocrats remind me of the Soviets or the Khymer Rouge. They have a fairy tale ideology that has nothing to do with reality and doesn't work. So they end up leaving a trail of ruined lives behind them while pretending to have The Answers.
It turns out abstinence only sex education is failing. For the first time in 15 years, the teen pregnancy rate is rising rather than falling. STD rates are up to.
Yet again another triumph for wackodoodle ideology over common sense and reality. These clowns really don't care how many lives they ruin as long as they can make their wrongheaded points to their pea brained followers.
Posted by: raven | December 10, 2007 11:21 AM
That is so wrong. The creos don't care who knows that they are authoritarian religious bigots. What is the point of finally grabbing some power if you can't persecute a few hundred or a few million people?
Inquisitions, purges, Gulags, Siberias, show trials, torture, burning witches and heretics at the stake. They long for the good old days. You know, what the rest of us call the Dark Ages.
Posted by: raven | December 10, 2007 11:26 AM
What's wrong with favoring something that is true and that you teach? Evolution is a theory and also a fact, ID is not even a THEORY nor is it fact-If we lose the teaching of evolution in school, America is lost- it's the last stand for science and progress- and I'm starting to worry...
Posted by: robotaholic | December 10, 2007 11:28 AM
Silly creationists!
"But you can be in favor of a science without bashing people's faith,"
So, by telling people about a talk that showed how silly ID is, she was "bashing people's faith".
But ID isn't faith, it's a scientific theory!
Posted by: Donalbain | December 10, 2007 11:29 AM
Unless "people's faith" not only denies but demonizes said science....
Posted by: AC | December 10, 2007 11:38 AM
The Fort Worth-Star Telegram was piling on this weekend. Referring to the TEA as "mullahs" and noting that Governor Perry has a degree in animal science, so he should be able to identify intelligent design creationism as BS were just two of the highlights.
Posted by: Salad Is Slaughter | December 10, 2007 11:40 AM
But you can be in favor of a science without bashing people's faith, too.
Umm. No, you can't. If someone's "faith" says that the Earth is 6,000 years only then, if one is in favour of geology, one must "bash" someone else's faith. Similarly, you can't be in favour of biological science and not "bash" the faith of someone who does not accept that man and ape share a common ancestor, or refuses to hold to a purely naturalistic explanation for life. It simply isn't possible.
This isn't even the old canard of non-overlapping magisteria. This is science vs. lunancy pure and simple; these are people trying to teach that 1+1=3, and claiming "faith-bashing" when it's pointed out - however politely or heatedly - that they're wrong.
Posted by: Armchair Dissident | December 10, 2007 11:49 AM
But you can be in favor of a science without bashing people's faith, too.
Sure, so let's see some pro-Wicca material introduced into the Texas school system. I'm sure he would be just fine with that, right? He wouldn't bash Wicca, would he? Not a tolerant feller like Robert, nosireebob.
Posted by: gsb | December 10, 2007 12:10 PM
But the lecture wasn't addressing matters of faith. It was addressing Intelligent Design which is, according to its proponents, a scientific theory rather than a religious belief.
I wonder how long it will take before this double-speak strategy becomes so overused that the majority begin to see through it.
Seriously, if I were Yahweh I'd be pissed by all of these so-called believers who wouldn't stand up for me.
Posted by: Patrick Quigley | December 10, 2007 12:17 PM
Hi,
Recall all those rather slow kids from school? The dullards that taunted you for your smarts? They became Fundies so they could continue the practice. See the PBS special on the Dover suit.
Consider now that these individuals are among the lowest of the socioeconmic class. They look up to every one else's accomplishments, wealth, and status. Fundie religion teaches that men are human and that women and children are property of the glorious male. How to keep that happy state of affairs? Keep the kids stupid and unable to question the rightness of the current system. Have school be so useless that many leave. It has the effect of lowering wages and depressing learning rates. Don't want those kids thinking. They might get ideas.
Posted by: Mold | December 10, 2007 12:35 PM
The Atlanta Journal Constitution also commented on the issue, and used it to frame (sorry for dropping the F-bomb, P.Z.) America's latest failures in international math and science testing.
Posted by: leukocyte | December 10, 2007 12:50 PM
Key quotation from the AJC editorial: "Evolution is not a camp, personal opinion or belief. It is the unifying principle of modern biology." Wow, that felt good to read in a mainstream newspaper.
Posted by: leukocyte | December 10, 2007 12:52 PM
I looked at the purity poll on ChristiaNet. Here's the question:
1. Should Christians participate in Santa Claus?
Now WTF does that mean? How does one "participate in Santa Claus"?
Posted by: slabounty | December 10, 2007 1:03 PM
Wait a minute! Within the context of remarks, isn't the statement "But you can be in favor of a science without bashing people's faith, too." yet another admission that ID is religion and perceived to be so by Scott? Someone store this one away, so that when the committee tries to introduce ID it will be clear that they all knew it was religion before it came up.
Tom
Posted by: Tom | December 10, 2007 1:05 PM
#1: "How else can they pretend that 2 pages of 4,000 year old mythology explains the real world better than 150 years of science."
Science gives you only one canonical explanation. The first two pages of Genesis are much better: they give you two contradicting explanations to choose from, as the situation needs.
Posted by: Lassi Hippeläinen | December 10, 2007 2:06 PM
There are some rational people in Florida
Despite the fact that we recently hosted a GOP "debate," for the most part St. Pete is one of the saner parts of Florida. For example, it's far more sane than Tampa / Hillsborough County, just across the bay. They have some real issues over there . . .
Posted by: spencer | December 10, 2007 2:35 PM
i wanna see this one go to court.
as a public school teacher, you can't take a negative stance on faith any more than you can take a positive one. but what happens when someone's faith is demonstrably untrue? does advocating facts become ridiculing of faith?
if, for instance, i'm a radical islamic fundamentalist, and the idea that the holocaust never happened is part of my faith, is learning about it an insult to my faith, or the school taking a position on religion?
does the promotion of ignorance serve the legitimate secular interest of the public education system? i think not. i also think that if teaching facts is an insult to your faith, your faith is the thing at fault. we have to protect religious freedom in this country, yes, but not to the extent each and every person must be shielded from the outside world, reality, and knowledge at every turn.
and more importantly, where is the discovery institute in all this? for people who advocate teaching the controversy, they're sure not defending this person who did teach the controversy.
Posted by: arachnophilia | December 10, 2007 2:43 PM
#19: isn't St Pete where the Scientologists headquarter?
Posted by: anonymous dave | December 10, 2007 3:09 PM
I love Robyn -besides being an outstanding columnist in general, she is an admitted atheist.
Posted by: CJ | December 10, 2007 3:57 PM
#21: Nope. That's Clearwater, IIRC.
Posted by: Heather Kuhn | December 10, 2007 4:08 PM
Coming home from work, I noticed this too:
In response to the first question:
In response to the last question:
Hang on a minute. How can he not know all the facts, yet complain about reports of her dismissal not being based "in reality or fact". If he doesn't know all the facts, he can't know that the reports were not based on "reality or fact". If he does know all the facts then his second statement is blatantly false and he is lying.
Presumably those standards include knowing the details of a potential constructive dismissal case (as it is termed in the UK - don't know if the same thing exists in the US) before demonstrating one's ignorance to the press...
Posted by: Armchair Dissident | December 10, 2007 5:53 PM
Robyn is wonderful. As stated, she's openly atheist (http://www.sptimes.com/2004/08/08/Columns/I_m_an_atheist___so_w.shtml) and headed the ACLU of Utah and Florida. Her piece is the first thing I turn to each Sunday. I think a lot of people here would enjoy making her weekly column a part of their routine.
And yes, Woo Woo Centr... er, I mean, Scientology HQ is in Clearwater, a bit north of St.Pete.
Posted by: Ragutis | December 10, 2007 8:43 PM
I can't remember, do I take two shots or three shots whenever someone pretending to be an authority figure on education says that?
FFS Mr Scott, you are the education commissioner, it's your job to know all the facts about an education issue. Particularly if you are going to fire (sorry *encourage early resignation*) of staff members for innapropriate advocacy.
If he doesn't know all the facts, how does he know whats innapropriate or not.
Posted by: zayzayem | December 10, 2007 9:29 PM
Hey, PZ, in your third paragraph you mean "led", not "lead".
Posted by: godless dave | December 11, 2007 1:18 AM
Ms. Comer didn't advocate anything in her e-mail. She notified people who should have been interested that more information was available if people chose to attend a lecture about a subject that they should have been concerned with. She didn't even urge them to go.
Posted by: Monado | December 11, 2007 1:06 PM
>>...dinosaurs and man roamed the Earth at the same time.
And still do.
Posted by: darwinsdog | December 12, 2007 3:59 PM