…and this is a 
Have a jolly godless Christmas, all!
Category: Godlessness
Posted on: December 16, 2007 11:19 AM, by PZ Myers
Albert Mohler never disappoints. If you want a peek at the smug, ignorant heart of modern American Christianity, the weekly columns of the president of the Souther Baptist Theological Seminary are good places to start. In his latest effort, he expresses surprise that atheists might enjoy the Christmas holidays. He's positively baffled that Richard Dawkins admits sharing in the traditions of his culture.
The thought of Richard Dawkins singing any carols with explicit Christian content is difficult to hold — unless the Oxford professor intends to sing of a faith he does not profess.
Stephen Jay Gould, evolutionist, atheist Jew, and Marxist sympathizer, used to join a choir to sing Handel's Messiah at Christmas time. Note to Albert: Jesus didn't write it, the music wasn't brought to earth by a covey of angels, and it doesn't require supernatural intervention to either sing it or hear it. Enjoying great music, or for that matter, eating Christmas cookies, gathering with friends and family for a meal, or giving a child a toy, does not require one speck of faith of any kind. These are human acts; the only way you can have difficulty holding the thought that an atheist might do them is if you have difficulty considering atheists as human.
Although I suppose an alternative and more charitable explanation is that Albert Mohler merely holds an extraordinarily withered imagination that is pretty much incapable of doing much of anything.
The sight of an avowed atheist joining in the Christmas chorus is a bit hard to imagine. At the same time, there is something comforting about the idea that even the world's most famous atheist will move his lips to the songs that celebrate Christ's birth. Perhaps those words will move from his lips to his head and his heart. We should pray that it might be so.
Yep. Nonexistent imagination. It's a sad sight. Learn something, Albert.
Richard Dawkins celebrates Christmas. Greg Laden celebrates Christmas. PZ Myers celebrates Christmas. We aren't celebrating the Christian faith (we actually deplore that), but we do like parties and music and good food and a seasonal tradition and having fun with our kids.
I have no problem saying "Merry Christmas!" to people, or putting on a red santa hat, or seeing houses draped with Christmas lights. I'm joining in. It's my way of subverting the tradition — it's also a secular holiday, you know, and I aim to appropriate it. I'm following another tradition there, since Christians initially stole the pagan midwinter festival for themselves, so I'm planning to take over Christmas as an atheist celebration.
One thing, though: I won't ever be baffled by the fact that Christians have a good time on Christmas, too. They're only human, after all. They're welcome to join in our good cheer.
Politics
Comments
I keep hearing about "avowed atheists."
I mean, I know the Secret Atheist Handshake, and I have the Atheist Lodge Funny Hat, but I'm still waiting for someone to teach me the official Vow of Atheism.
I just hope it doesn't start "I swear to God ..."
Posted by: Hank Fox | December 16, 2007 11:24 AM
Me and a friend have decided to celebrate Newtonmas this year after getting annoyed at people who assumed christmas was related to the birth of Christ.
After all, we know the Newton was born on the 25th of december, we know he existed, and we know he made great, some would say miraculous, strides. Not over water, but in the worlds of mathematics and physics.
Hell, why not?
Posted by: Kingreaper | December 16, 2007 11:28 AM
Learn something, Albert.
Beyond hope.
Posted by: MAJeff | December 16, 2007 11:34 AM
Oh, yeah, my illustrator friend Carl Buell and I have decided the Dec. 25 holiday should be named after the fictional character Kris Kringle, rather than that central figure of Christianity to which assholes like Mohler so jealously guard access.
In this joyous holiday season: Fuck You, Albert Mohler, you small-minded exclusivist wanker.
To everyone else: Merry Krismas!
Posted by: Hank Fox | December 16, 2007 11:35 AM
Posted by: J Myers | December 16, 2007 11:38 AM
Plus-- delicious Fig Newtons at every party!
Posted by: Apikoros | December 16, 2007 11:38 AM
I'm sure you've all heard/read it before, but this time of year is when I crank out the David Sedaris "Santaland Diaries" and "Six to Eight Black Men". Cracks me up every year.
Posted by: Dahan | December 16, 2007 11:50 AM
Perhaps we should start celebrating Festivus and invite our Christian neighbors to participate. I think that the traditional Airing of Grievances and even the Feats of Strength components would be particularly enervating.
Posted by: Jim Wyhne | December 16, 2007 11:51 AM
Me and a friend have decided to celebrate Newtonmas this year...
Shouldn't this be Newtonmass? Assuming, of course, the mass to be constant, omnipotent and possibly omnipresent.
Posted by: jimmiraybob | December 16, 2007 11:55 AM
Christians didn't invent Christmas anyway. They just borrowed it for a while.
Posted by: Zombie | December 16, 2007 11:55 AM
It wasn't just the Puritans who once rejected Christmas in all its gaudiness:
http://www.dailypress.com/news/local/virginia/dp-religiontoday1214dec14,0,2910292.story
Some of our best Xmas carols were written by Jewish composers-- Mendelssohn, and a bunch of TinPan Alley song writers. Get a big book of Christmas carols and you'll see the names.
The great English composer Ralph Vaughan Williams wrote lots of religious music, but he was not religious himself. (He was a member of that illustrious Wedgwood-Darwin clan.)
I cannot right now find the Mencken quote in which he said essentially that no evangelical ever did anything worthy artistically. I did find one I've never seen before:
"It is impossible to imagine the universe run by a wise, just and omnipotent God, but it is quite easy to imagine it run by a board of gods."
Posted by: Peter M | December 16, 2007 11:56 AM
I'm wondering how these guys can get through days of the week, like Woden's day, Thor's day, and Saturn's day.
Posted by: Pablo | December 16, 2007 11:58 AM
I enjoy the traditions even more knowing that the most fundamentalist Christians in History were opposed to it.
Cromwell and his puritans banned Christmas in 1644 as it was "an extraeme forgetfulnesse of Christ, by giving liberty to carnall and sensual delights". When his sheriffs were sent out to enforce the ban and force people to work on Christmas there were riots.
When Knox banned Christmas in 1562 the Scots changed their celebration to Hogmanay (The New Year)
The Puritans made Christmas a crime in Massachusetts in 1659, which was not repealed until 1681.
And that Unholy 'Christmas' tree?
Jeremiah:
10:1 Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
10:3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
10:4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
Go Druids! Sacrifice a tree to end winter.
Posted by: Quiddam | December 16, 2007 11:58 AM
So if I sing along to Clapton's "Cocaine", does that mean that I am a hypocrite for not doing drugs?
Posted by: Tulse | December 16, 2007 11:58 AM
Saying "Merry Christmas" is offensive to many people. Christmas is another word for immorality and stupidity. Civilized people say "Happy Santa Claus Day". Just saying the word "Christmas", except to ridicule it, is sucking up to Christians.
Posted by: BobC | December 16, 2007 12:01 PM
I trust that Mr. Mohler refuses to participate in the singing of Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer, Santa Claus is Coming To Town, or even Ave Maria, lest "those words will move from his lips to his head and his heart."
Posted by: Ruth | December 16, 2007 12:05 PM
It's better to give than believe.
@Tulse: Yes, yes it does. Also anyone that ever hummed along to "There she goes" by the Las has to do heroin.
Posted by: Matt Heath | December 16, 2007 12:08 PM
I love the Snowflake Day celebrated by the students of Clone High. I mean, who doesn't want to celebrate with a lamb taco and get spices on dec 25?
Posted by: darwinfish | December 16, 2007 12:11 PM
Hilarious!
By the way, it may surprise you to learn that there are, in fact, lactose-intolerant people living in the state of Wisconsin.
Posted by: Dan | December 16, 2007 12:11 PM
Say what you will, in my opinion and staunch atheism, if
anything, music, art, architecture or whatever we observe
or design has a religious connotation, I will deride it as
a waste of human endeavor. As in architecture, form follows function, and to admire a church architecturally
is to overlook the fact that it was built to glorify and
perpetuate a non-existent idiocy. If Bach and Handel's
religious music were known as Concerti Grosso or any other
non-secular connotation then it would be great music for it
does not denote composition to or in praise of a fictional
entity. Richard Dawkins and Daniel Dennett may admit to a
love of these pathetic compositions, and yet profess to
rant against religion, is to me, akin to hanging a bible
and other nonsense works on a "Tree Of Knowledge" and
sporting a tee shirt that reads "Thank god I'm an Atheist"
As far as I'm concerned, this is being disingenuous and
kowtowing to religion with little niceties. I will have
none of it and will not stoop to this phony crap. Either
you are totally against religion and all other insanities
or maintain bits and pieces in your life to defer to the
insane and live falsely. Like Holbach, I am intransigent
to anything that smacks of religion in all its forms.
Posted by: JIM JORDAN | December 16, 2007 12:13 PM
I have a scarlet A on my website, and two Christmas trees in my home. (They're both of the plastic species.) I strung lights all around them, and made a tree-topper for one out of some prototype children's construction toys a housemate happened to have a box of.
It's the first time I'm celebrating Christmas in my own place, where by "my own" I mean "the place I share with people who are not my biological family".
The other way I celebrate is by giving in to temptations, like finding new webcomics and clicking the "read from first strip" link. Today, Unshelved sent me to Planet Karen; Pharyngulites may enjoy the 16 January 2007 strip.
Posted by: Blake Stacey | December 16, 2007 12:14 PM
I too enjoy the pageantry of the season as well as the feeling of camaraderie.
The best parts are the old pagan symbols that help welcome in the new light, and honor life. I'm talking about evergreens and lights here, the standard Saturnalia/Christmas fare.
There are very few carols that I like though, to me they need refereshing. Maybe something a bit more modern, delete the God/Christ reference and put in a more secular bit and maybe I'd be out singing them too.
Posted by: Tony P | December 16, 2007 12:19 PM
We had a bunch of professors and their families over yesterday. Started decorating Xmas cookies at 3. Got the sleds going at 4:30 and sledded until long after dark under the lights (we take our sled hill very seriously). The Xmas pizzas were in the oven by 7, now some grad students were showing at too. (The kids, some of them back out sledding, some starting a DVD in the basement.) By now, on our 7th bottle of wine. Talk was about science or the kids or the best sled crash or the people in the dept we that dont come to our parties. The cats were starting to hide, tried of too much attention. The Snow was starting up again, the fire was a little on the hot side.
Such a nice Xmas party. And, the honest truth, I actually never thought even once--not once--the entire day that we are all atheists of various degrees and that Xmas is some sort of religious time of year. And now that I think about it, we were all the better for it.
Posted by: Don Kane | December 16, 2007 12:20 PM
How about Cthulhumas? Where you sit around the fire and read Lovecraft stories. With calamari roasting on an open fire.
Posted by: Yog-SothScrooge | December 16, 2007 12:24 PM
When I saw the title I immediately started humming it to the tune of "Have a Holly Jolly Christmas". I'm sure that someone somewhere has the lyrical chops to create the first Godless, Christmas carol, using that as a start.....
Posted by: Denny | December 16, 2007 12:25 PM
With the atheist host proclaim:
"Mohler is so fucking lame."
Hark! The godless atheists sing
"Glory to our 'Podmas King!"
Posted by: CalGeorge | December 16, 2007 12:25 PM
What does a fat fictional folklore figure sitting on a sledge drawn by reindeers have to do with the "Christian faith" / "the birth of Jesus" anyway?
Posted by: imsd007 | December 16, 2007 12:29 PM
Waes Heal!
Gute Yule!
Merry Midwinter ...
Posted by: G.| Tingey | December 16, 2007 12:29 PM
I don't know or care or plan on finding out who Albert Mohler is. I express complete indifference to him and his views. Let me know though if he's elected the next president or put in a position of power over me.
(Post may contain humor.)
Posted by: Christianjb | December 16, 2007 12:29 PM
A Brumalian Wish
From the damnable shadows of madness,
From the corpse-ridden hollow of Weir,
Comes a horrible message of gladness,
And a ghost-guided poem of cheer -
And a gloom-spouting pupil of Poe sends the pleasantest wish of the year!
May the ghouls of the neighboring regions,
And the curséd necrophagous things,
Lay aside their dark habits in legions,
For the bliss that Brumalia brings -
And may Druids innum'rable bless thee, as they dance on the moor's fairy-rings!
So, Galba, may pleasures attend thee
Thro' all thy bright glorious days;
May the world and the mighty commend thee,
And the cosmos resound with thy praise -
And may all future ages be brilliant with the light of thine intellect's rays!
-H.P. Lovecraft
Posted by: Ted D | December 16, 2007 12:30 PM
Bob
Posted by: Bob O'H | December 16, 2007 12:31 PM
I'm practically having one with a good friend of mine -- I'm giving him a Cthulhu ornament (thanks for the tip, PZ!), and an audio CD of At the Mountains of Madness. (My friend also collects Star Trek ornaments, and gets a new one for the tree every year, so perhaps these are better described as "Geekmas" gifts.)
Posted by: Tulse | December 16, 2007 12:34 PM
I guess I'm an outlier here for being an atheist who does not celebrate Christmas. Well, at least I'm used to it. I don't have any problem with the idea of atheists celebrating whatever they want to. I just see little about the commercial or religious aspects I want to celebrate. While that doesn't mean I couldn't celebrate some other part, I see little reason to do so.
Posted by: vjack | December 16, 2007 12:35 PM
I reserve the right to reclaim the winter solstice festival of my pagan ancestors.
Any time a Christian trys to tell me the reason for the season, I tell them to go get their own holiday.
Posted by: Tony Popple | December 16, 2007 12:36 PM
It doesn't take supernatural intervention to sing Bach, just a lot of practice--particularly to sing Bach well.
The annual Christmas concert is one thing I miss about college choir. Singing Bach's Magnificat or Handel's Messiah was fun. And that counterpoint required work. But, oh my, when it came together was it a blast.
Posted by: MAJeff | December 16, 2007 12:36 PM
It is hard for the theist to grasp that given we think it's nonsense, we see nothing wrong with bumping along as long as it's harmless nonsense. Mohler see this in the same light as a someone who loves Jesus, swearing allegiance to Allah. He can't imagine that no invisible feelings are hurt by Dawkins "hypocrisy".
My contribution to the Season :
Faith rest ye mindless morons, let nothing you dismay.
Don't let the weight of evidence convince you this day,
Ignore 300 years of science and continue to pray
Faith is a crude coping ploy, coping ploy
Faith is a crude coping ploy ...
Embrace whatever faith inspired nonsense you insist
But, Keep it to yourself and I won't ask you to desist
Yet, Start to base our laws on myths and you'll find I'll resist
Faith is a crude coping ploy, coping ploy
Faith is a crude coping ploy ...
Accept 4th hand reports from primitives without a grasp,
Of knowledge every 10 year old today has amassed
Cling to The edited, discredited hearsay of the past
Faith is a crude coping ploy, coping ploy
Faith is a crude coping ploy ...
Now, I've said things one could consider harsh and even cruel,
I've called you names and practically implied that you're a fool
If you believe in Jesus Christ and think he's rather cool
Faith is a crude coping ploy, coping ploy
Faith is a crude coping ploy ...
In Truth we've all been victims of a cunning endless scam
A polished, professional and shameless ancient sham
To part us from our hard earned cash, without a clam
Face it you've been had, and so have i, so have I
it's all over when we die ...
So make the most of the single life on which you're bound
Dont let the breath of Allah drive you're bark aground
Upon the shoals of ignorance we'll no more be found
Faith is a crude coping ploy, coping ploy
Faith is a crude coping ploy ... (more)
Posted by: Brian Coughlan | December 16, 2007 12:38 PM
Most of the christmas symbols (around here anyway) are derived from winter solstice commemorations. I give Solstice cards. The evergreen boughs are german tribal symbols of the ever-living trees and were brought inside to symbolize the rebirth of the sun at solstice. The star is a perfectly good wiccan symbol of the pentagram. All appropriate for this time of year. Just because "some" religions have co-opted the symbol doesn't detract from its original natural observations.
SG
Posted by: Science Goddess | December 16, 2007 12:38 PM
Felix Saturnalia et dies natalis Solis Invicti, amici!
Posted by: Steve LaBonne | December 16, 2007 12:39 PM
Funny thing is that I know plenty of christians that do not celebrate christmas for various religious reasons. Jehovah's witnesses, for instance, do not because they consider it a pagan holiday. It is up to me, an atheist, to try to convince them that they should think of it as a celebration and a time to express love and joy with their family and friends. But apparently their religious dogma precludes them from doing so.
Posted by: brent | December 16, 2007 12:39 PM
#34: A druidic solstice, with human sacrifice? Maybe we can draft some christians for that. I wouldn't want to do the get naked and rub blue mud over myself though, it's below zero outside now.
Posted by: bill r | December 16, 2007 12:44 PM
Funny picture, but you misspelled "traditionz" (alternate spelling: tradishunz).
Posted by: Stephen | December 16, 2007 12:46 PM
As far as singing Christmas carols goes, I wonder, does Mr. Mohler believe everything he sings? Does he refuse to sing along with the radio unless the content of the song is true to his life?
Posted by: Tom Foss | December 16, 2007 12:46 PM
I also celebrate Christmas. I think it is more of a secular holiday, after all it started out as a pagan holiday. I'm not sure what Santa Claus and Christmas trees has to do with Jesus anyway. I also enjoy the Christmas hymns, many of which were written by the masters (like Handel's Messiah).
Mr. Mohler expresses surprise that people say things they don't believe? Wow, is he ever naive. Most people pick and choose what they want from religion already. It's been my experience that a significant portion of people at church don't believe what they're saying.
Posted by: Unstable Isotope | December 16, 2007 12:47 PM
My friends and I celebrate the 25th of December as the so-called "Newtonmas" (Brilliant, Kingreaper. Brilliant.) by eating Fig Newtons and Chocolate Leibniz Cookies. What are the chances of two different cookies bearing the names of the founders of the calculus?
Merry Newtonmas and a Happy Year full of (chocolate) Liebniz, everyone!
Posted by: apk | December 16, 2007 12:49 PM
Jim from #20
"Say what you will, in my opinion and staunch atheism, if anything, music, art, architecture or whatever we observe or design has a religious connotation, I will deride it as a waste of human endeavor."
With respect, I have to disagree. Think in terms of natural selection. Artists and designers (like myself) are just using what's available to continue the progress of our art.
There was a time when the church was the only organization that had the money and power to commission artists. Naturally, the art and architecture of the time was more than heavily influenced by that. Does that make it "a waste of human endeavor"? Of course not. Any more than a work of art (say the writings of Douglas Adams) is NOT a waste of human endeavor and therefore more important because it is free of religious influence. That's far to limiting a view. It's the sort of thing the creationist say. "if it doesn't glorify god..." Michelangelo wasn't a great artist because of or in spite of his working for the church. Just like he wasn't a great artist because of or in spite of the fact that the church paid him off young boys.
Evolution isn't wasteful. Not in genetics, not in art, not in anything. It's a process. You want art and design to be more secular...fund or hire artists and designers whose work correlates to your views.
As an atheist and furniture designer, would I design a lectern and baptismal for a church? Yep, although I'd probably charge em a little extra (bleeding the beast ya know). Markets and evolution, not pretty, but real.
Posted by: Dahan | December 16, 2007 12:52 PM
Tulse @ 12:34, Thanks for the tips! And be sure to vote for Cthulhu for president:
http://faroutshirts.com/detail.php?id=291
Posted by: Yog-SothScrooge | December 16, 2007 12:59 PM
Try to overlook the sloppiness of my last post, playing three games of chess at the same time and not proofing stuff very well obviously.
Posted by: Dahan | December 16, 2007 1:00 PM
Jim Jordan: "Say what you will, in my opinion and staunch atheism, if
anything, music, art, architecture or whatever we observe
or design has a religious connotation, I will deride it as
a waste of human endeavor. "
Then you are a philistine. Many beautiful things are created in the NAME of religion, with the AIM of beauty.
They're beautiful. The aim of their creator was a success. That they were meant to be beautiful to please a person who doesn't exist is irrelevant: Do you deride artworks made for women who are now dead as now lacking purpose?
Unless you wish to claim that all beauty is pointless, recognise that the aim of beautiful things made for holy purposes is BEAUTY. And they achieved this aim. Where's the waste?
This post (c) Kingreaper: Suspects Jim isn't a creatively driven person.
Posted by: Kingreaper | December 16, 2007 1:02 PM
What's interesting is that everyone considers "Hallelujah" to be an christmas song. In the oratorio, it's actually at the moment of resurrection, on easter.
Still a hell of a lot of fun to sing. I was even humming along with the bass line as my aunt played it on the organ at grandma's funeral.
Posted by: MAJeff | December 16, 2007 1:02 PM
By the way, it may surprise you to learn that there are, in fact, lactose-intolerant people living in the state of Wisconsin.
By way of a complete non-sequitur, I had a student turn in a paper last week in which I saw the phrase "lack-toast and tolerant". It took a few seconds to parse out what that meant, and a few minutes in wonderment of what the world must look like to some people.
Posted by: Carlie | December 16, 2007 1:08 PM
Tsss, tsss. Learn about kurisumasu, the Japanese celebration of love and rampant consumerism.
Now this is an abomination. Repent immediately.
Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | December 16, 2007 1:08 PM
It is amusing to note that Mohler, who is nominally Dembski's boss, does not include Dembski's blog, Uncommon Descent, in his list of recommended web logs.
It must be too scientific for him :-P
Posted by: Albatrossity | December 16, 2007 1:11 PM
Vienna Teng actually has a song called "The Atheist Christmas Carol". It's not very sing-alongable, but it's wonderfully mellow for a winter's day. In our home we celebrate both the solstice and Christmas, and the holiday continues with a family vacation in the White Mountains. We've found it extends the holiday beyond a one-day orgie of gift-giving (not that there's anything wrong with that...)
Posted by: monyNH | December 16, 2007 1:12 PM
I have been in clubs and have sung along to love songs when I wasn't in love.
I have sung along to break-up songs when I wasn't breaking up.
I have sung along to anti-vietnam songs long after that war ended.
I have sung "Happy Birthday" for people I didn't even know and didn't care whether they had a happy birthday or not.
I have sung along to songs whose words simply lacked meaning (see, most pop hits of the 1980s, specifically "Relax," "Come on Eileen," and virtually anything by Duran Duran).
I've sung along to "Wake Me Up Before You Go-Go" when I didn't particularly want to be awakened, and when no one I knew was go-going anywhere.
I've sung along to "Careless Whisper" when I hadn't cheated on anyone.
And perhaps most obviously, hundreds of times I have sung along to "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" when I was already AT the ballgame and when the game was, in fact, nearly 7/9 complete.
Since when does the MEANING of the words affect our willingness and ability to enjoy singing songs in groups?
What an idiot.
Posted by: cureholder | December 16, 2007 1:17 PM
Carlie@49, there's a whole database devoted to what the Language Log bloggers call "eggcorns". Voilà the Eggcorn Database.
Posted by: j | December 16, 2007 1:19 PM
:-o
King of the eggcorns!!!
Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | December 16, 2007 1:20 PM
Non-existent god damn it, David Marjanovic. I had written a comment to the same effect but had included too many links in it, so it got held up in moderation. Anyway, here's the Eggcorn Database.
Posted by: j | December 16, 2007 1:22 PM
You want a real downer of a day on Dec 25th? Forget the godless atheists and "celebrate" with Fred "God Hates You" Phelps and his clan.
Posted by: PoxyHowzes | December 16, 2007 1:24 PM
It's funny, I don't celebrate Christmas (not my tradition), but I just had the exact same discussion with a neighbor about Hannuka about a week ago. She just couldn't wrap her mind around us celebrating it even though we are both atheists. We explained how this was a fun holiday when we grew up, and involved a lot of family traditions, so we enjoy doing the parts we like - the candles, the latkes, the presents, etc. She had a really hard time understanding that no, our celebration has nothing to do with the Jewish struggle against the Greek 2000 years ago. Who cares? For me it has to do with enjoying and continuing family traditions.
Posted by: Rahel | December 16, 2007 1:26 PM
And is Mohler likewise having difficulty with Christians singing about Santa Claus? Seems to me that's another example of people singing of a faith they don't profess.
Posted by: dorid | December 16, 2007 1:27 PM
The idea that reindeer can fly is every bit as believable as the idea of a talking snake or a virgin human birth. That's one of the things I like about Christmas.
Posted by: Stuart Dryer | December 16, 2007 1:29 PM
Perhaps if I keep singing all those songs I love about heterosexual love, I will become straight. It sure worked for Dusty Springfield.
Yeah,'Son Of A Preacher Man' is one of my all time favorite songs. Yet I still cannot fall for any sons of preacher men. Maybe daughters of preacher men.
Posted by: Janine | December 16, 2007 1:31 PM
I sometimes sing the Power Rangers theme and I find every once in a while I'll even sing along to Spongebob Squarepants. Can't help it with the kids and all. I guess that means I believe they are real.
Posted by: qedpro | December 16, 2007 1:34 PM
The Mormon I work with once tried to bait me by asking what it was that atheists were celebrating if they celebrated Christmas.
Being in a snarky mood, I replied, "The same thing you Christians do, silly. Mithra's birthday."
Posted by: Brownian, OM | December 16, 2007 1:35 PM
I'm in favor of celebrating Hogswatchnight - when the Hogfather roams the land. See, I know he exists, since I read about it in a book ;P.
Posted by: Badger3k | December 16, 2007 1:40 PM
By the way, if stupid assholes like Mohler really wanted to know how people un-indoctrinated in the Sky Daddy Death Cult (best. band. name. ever.) can celebrate Christmas, he should just look at the faces of the kids too young to understand the theology.
By his reckoning, they should all be morosely staring at their shoes, bewildered but otherwise completely unaffected by all the food, presents, and the laughter and singing of friends and relatives.
I mean, only one of the Clueless for Christ could possibly enjoy those things.
I hope his pagan tree falls on his empty head (causing no injury but to his ego, of course. It is
SolsticeMithra'sBirthdayAnyNumberOfWinterCelebrationsChristmas after all.)Posted by: Brownian, OM | December 16, 2007 1:43 PM
Ah, perhaps there is some synergy with my random statement after all. We could just claim that we are hearing all Christmas lyrics as mondegreens, the musical equivalent of eggcorns, and therefore we don't even notice the Jesusness of them.
Posted by: Carlie | December 16, 2007 1:47 PM
"I have sung along to songs whose words simply lacked meaning (see, most pop hits of the 1980s, specifically "Relax," "Come on Eileen," "
Lacked meaning?
I don't think you actually heard the words you were singing.
OK, Come On Eileen has a miniscule amount of subtlety to it (or not - it's a simple coming of age song) but "Relax" isn't hiding anything:
"Relax, don't do it.
When you want to come"
To put it in your list of "I've sung it despite...", you could say you sang "Relax" despite not suffering from premature ejaculation.
Posted by: Pablo | December 16, 2007 1:51 PM
My high school physics class used to go Newton-caroling through the halls every year on the week before Christmas vacation. We'd rewrite Christmas carols (and usually "Dreidl, Dreidl, Dreidl" also) with physics themes and walk down the halls singing loudly and passing out candycanes. (I wrote one about F=ma to the tune of "We Three Kings"... "Take into consideration/force equals mass time acceleration") Our physics teacher would wear a Santa hat and carry a basket of apples.
That's my kind of holiday spirit!
Posted by: Joolya | December 16, 2007 1:51 PM
I may be what Mohler is looking for in an atheist. I just told some carol singers to "go away."
Posted by: poke | December 16, 2007 1:52 PM
Well, after all, the Christians stole it from the Romans, who probably stole it from some other soltice-celebrating group. Somewhere along the way, the serial numbers got filed off. I declare solstice celebrations to be Out of Copyright!
Skimming the theologian's rant, I find it ironic that he thinks atheists shouldn't enjoy singing Christmas carols. The first example of cultural evolution that I ever identified, many years ago, was Christmas carols. Think of all the people during all those centuries writing the best music they could to the glory of God. Imagine the winnowing that takes place: there's only so much time and energy to sing, worst luck! So each year the most favourite, most emotional, most musical, most singable, most beautiful, most evocative get sung, learned, written down, and passed along. How could they not evolve into a flock of some of the most beautiful tunes ever?
Posted by: Monado, FCD | December 16, 2007 1:52 PM
David Marjanović, what's wrong with Xmas pizzas? They are so festively decorative, with their red tomatoes, green peppers, and white cheese....
I have fond memories of my Jewish grandmother telling her sister about the lovely red&green tablecloth that she was putting out for "yontif", which is a Yiddishization of the Hebrew "yom tov", meaning "good (holy) day".
Yesterday, the Ottawa Humanists had our annual Solstice party, held in an apartment party room. The room had been seasonally decorated (by either the building staff or other residents) with a Christmas tree with an angel on top. Some of those present found it necessary to remove the angel for the duration of the event (though they replaced it when we were finished). I wonder if they would have had the same response to leprechaun decorations for St Patrick's day.
Posted by: Theo Bromine | December 16, 2007 1:54 PM
And so this is Christmas
I hope you have fun
The near and the dear ones
The old and the young.
An atheist wrote that. Imagine.
Posted by: Mike Haubrich, FCD | December 16, 2007 1:59 PM
So, it is either:
or:Or maybe it should be a secular festival which celebrates and encourages the finer human virtues of kindness, compassion, charity and goodwill which, I believe, can be found to some extent in most people, regardless of faith, and which eschews
should be our ideal?Posted by: Ian H Spedding FCD | December 16, 2007 2:00 PM
Kingreaper (way up there), Jim (wayer):
king's gotta point, Jim. you don't consider the Taj Mahal ripe for demolition because the Sultan and his wife are both now dead, same as you wouldn't march past the Koeln cathedral with ya nose in the air because it was concieved as the house of a magic sky daddy.
(regardless of the fact that it looks more like some sort of stunning, biomechanical HR Giger palace.)
happy podmas, all
L
Posted by: Lepht | December 16, 2007 2:08 PM
Some years ago I had the pleasure of performing Hayden's Creation in the bass section of the Boston Cecilia chorale with Stephen Jay Gould. It is a beautiful piece of music, and the voice of reason not make it less so.
So much of our cultural heritage is based on religious traditions that it is foolish to suggest that a lack of faith should imply lack of interest, especially in the good stuff.
Posted by: Mike | December 16, 2007 2:14 PM
Hey Pablo,
You're probably right. There WAS some semblance of meaning in the '80s songs I was singing along to. Maybe I should have said "lacked any meaning to me" or "I didn't care what the words meant."
And given that I was still trapped in fundamentalist hell in the mid-'80s when these songs were popular, it's no surprise that I failed to recognize the not-so-subtle meaning of coming-of-age songs like "Come on Eileen." And as for "Relax," well, let's just say that premature ejaculation wasn't even on my list of sexual issues. Being convinced that even simple masturbation would condemn me to an eternity of fiery torment, I wasn't even touching girls back then (much as I oh-so-wanted to!).
Fortunately, when I did finally start touching girls, and then some, Frankie still had no relevance for me.
Thanks for the correction.
Cure
Posted by: cureholder | December 16, 2007 2:15 PM
What would he make of someone singing Yellow Submarine who didn't believe the Yellow Submarine ever existed? What of the Octopus's Garden?
As a small child, I used to sing the song of the Junior Birdmen. What would he think of me?
("Up in the air, Junior Birdmen, up in the air, upside down.
Up in the air, Junior Birdmen, keep your noses off the ground.
When you hear the bosun's whistle, and see the badges made of tin,
You can bet the Junior Birdmen have sent their boxtops in.")
Posted by: Ruprecht | December 16, 2007 2:34 PM
Well the bible says that Mary rode upon an ass, and Santa does have a rather large one that could easily accommodate a single pregnant Jewish woman. Heck in some depictions it could accommodate a football team.
Posted by: troy | December 16, 2007 2:39 PM
Well the bible says that Mary rode upon an ass, and Santa does have a rather large one that could easily accommodate a single pregnant Jewish woman. Heck in some depictions it could accommodate a football team.
Of course my personal theory is that Santa is Jesus' real father and he's always so jolly because he still can't believe that Joseph bought it.
Posted by: troy | December 16, 2007 2:40 PM
I thought it was interesting that I got a christmas card from a friend in Sweden, and of course it didn't have any explicity Christian elements, as their holiday is called Jul (pronounced "yule") which of course is the same name the holiday has had prior to christianity in that part of the world.
Unfortunately, though, the cards message was "Good Yule", which in Swedish is "God Jul". Arrgghh.
Posted by: robbrown | December 16, 2007 2:42 PM
I'm an atheist and I celebrate Christmas under duress. My family is (nominally) Christian (at least they don't try to drag me to church anymore) and my mother has a huge sentimental attachment to Christmas -- celebration en famille choreographed by Busby Berkley and the whole nine yards. If I had my druthers, I wouldn't do it, because I don't believe in gods, in rampant consumerism, or that "Christmas carols" (a substantial chunk of which are medieval dance tunes appropriated by piously prudish Victorians) are fun to listen to or sing.
Frustratingly enough, I had "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer" in my head earlier, so I chased it out with (ironically) "Israelites" by Desmond Dekker and the Aces and "Suliman" by Infected Mushroom. :)
Posted by: Interrobang | December 16, 2007 2:58 PM