…and this is a 
Poor baby
Category: Religion
Posted on: December 30, 2007 8:34 PM, by PZ Myers
Elle Jacobson is a high school student who is skipping school because she's afraid of atheists. Some parents are joining in the fear, all because of one little incident:
"This boy got up and his visual aid was a Bible and a book. And he got up and started his speech by saying 'Now, this piece of crap' and pointed to the Bible."
Jacobson said that she quickly felt threatened.
"He took the Bible and he said, 'I'm going to do this because I can. I'm going to do something that your stupid, little minds aren't going to be able to comprehend and he took the Bible and started ripping out pages."
Ripping up a copy of your own book is perfectly legal. Freaking out because somebody tore pages out of a book is silly — while I can't approve of destroying any books on general principles, the kids at that school learned a valuable lesson: nothing is sacred.
Comments
So much for performance art! Exactly what rule was this student breaking?
Posted by: Monado | December 30, 2007 8:45 PM
""We take this extremely seriously," said Dr. Karen Schulte, Janesville School District safety and security coordinator.
Officials said that they will not confirm whether the boy was suspended.
"We do an assessment of this situation and students involved to ensure the safety of every student and staff at that school," said Schulte.""
How the hell is this a safety issue? If he would have torn the pages out of any other book, nobody would have blinked. And the kid was punished? Jebus...
If I was in high school now, I would have been kicked out long ago due to "no tolerance" policies.
Posted by: Hexxenhammer | December 30, 2007 8:45 PM
Haha! "School safety"? From the comments of the adults interviewed for the article, one would think the student had brought a gun to school.
When a Bible is ripped up, everyone's safety is threatened!
In other words, it's about free speech. Specifically, it's about how you only like certain kinds of speech.
Unrelated: The article has a lot of typos. Comprehension is impeded.
Posted by: j | December 30, 2007 8:45 PM
I cannot believe the reaction to his presentation. Religion really does warp the mind. Reminds me today I saw a bumper sticker on a car that I got a chuckle out of:
"Religion is just a cult with more members."
Posted by: Tony P | December 30, 2007 8:46 PM
I hope that he put the torn pages in the recycle bin.
Posted by: natural cynic | December 30, 2007 8:47 PM
I'm all for destroying holy books, but I don't imagine it was an A-student giving a speech in which he referred to his audience's "stupid, little minds."
Posted by: Jackal | December 30, 2007 8:49 PM
Safety? Huh? It's a book! Had it been the Koran, the same students would be cheering.
Someone's going to get sued and it's not going to go well for them.
Posted by: Jbird | December 30, 2007 8:49 PM
I'm reminded of an incident at one of my first office jobs. I had on a few occasions, let "God-damn-it" slip when something particularly bad happened. A coworker stricken with a particularly pernicious case of Christianity reported me to the boss because her delicate sensibilities were so offended by hearing someone utter those particular words that she became physically ill. So instead I started saying "Satan-bless-it" when she was around. She quit not long after.
Posted by: Patrick | December 30, 2007 8:53 PM
That is a pathetic statement on how weak America is really becoming. Seriously, no one need worry about the decline of America as it is people like this and their what can only be termed bizarre reaction to the destruction of a book-albeit the bible- into a safety issue.
I would imagine they would have no problem burning any number of books themselves. No are so blind..........
Posted by: JimC | December 30, 2007 8:55 PM
Try this rendition:
Use any other book beside the Bible...a math book, "War and Peace", "On the Origins of Species", a biology textbook...
Now, imagine this kid giving his speech and using the words he used in a high school classroom:
'Now, this piece of crap' ... 'I'm going to do something that your stupid, little minds aren't going to be able to comprehend'
Personally, I'd think the kid had lost his mind. A trip to the student counselor would certainly be in order.
Posted by: FtK | December 30, 2007 8:58 PM
#6- I agree.
I'm all for people realizing that "nothing is sacred" but I have a feeling that this particular student just made another case for atheists being vicious.
I *am* a vicious atheist, but... just sayin'.
Posted by: kcanadensis | December 30, 2007 9:00 PM
I'm not sure if I'm understanding the problem. To me it looks like they are all up in arms because he wasn't being politically correct. Isn't the whole political correctness something that the Fox ConservativesTM wail loud and long about?
Posted by: Mena | December 30, 2007 9:04 PM
FtK, I agree with you for once. It wouldn't really make sense would it?
But, and this is the funny part: it DOES make sense when someone does that to the bible.
The reason why you don't seem to understand that probably has something to do with the stupid little minds part. That and your capacity to compartmentalize and hold mutually contradictory statements to be true.
Posted by: Erasmus, FCD | December 30, 2007 9:07 PM
It's a pretty aggressive performance-- I'd like to know more about the back-story...Is this a piece of conceptual art? An expression of frustration with bible-thumping school-mates? An expression of personal anger and alienation? Our book-killer could be making a perfectly valid point (if regularly harassed by 'believers'-- and this is something I've seen, in the case of my own outspoken atheist daughter), or displaying unjustified rage towards some other students (which might justify concern), or... well, there seem to be a lot of possibilities here.
Posted by: Bryson Brown | December 30, 2007 9:11 PM
Jackal-- I'm all for destroying holy books, but I don't imagine it was an A-student giving a speech in which he referred to his audience's "stupid, little minds."
I wouldnt have, because I would have been scared about getting kicked out of school and losing my >4.0 GPA. That doesnt mean I did not have those thoughts, and it does not mean I wouldnt support a student who did and got in trouble:
From the article:
"In a separate incident, following the punishment, three Parker High Students wore T-shirts asking for the student in question to be brought back after a punishment was levied against him. School officials made those students change clothes."
Buy that young man some Hitchens and Dawkins and he will learn how express his views more eloquently. Do not degrade him for expressing himself in a perfectly legal manner.
Posted by: ERV | December 30, 2007 9:14 PM
Calling the bible a piece of crap is going a bit extreme. . . objectively, it's really cool that we have written records like it, whatever their provenence -- from 2000 years+ ago.
Still, it's an interesting contrast of the PC-police here in the states reaction vs. the parallel-universe reaction of a student attempting the same thing with the koran in the middle east.
Posted by: Troy | December 30, 2007 9:15 PM
FTK: You also have to realize that the quote you are giving ('this piece of crap... stupid little minds') is NOT a direct quote from the student who gave the speech. It's quoted from the offended student. This could be quite a bit of hyperbole on her part. Or it could be accurate. It's a one-sided account of the speech. I'd want some verification from the student, the teacher, and/or other students in the room before I assumed that the speech actually included that kind of language.
Posted by: rjb | December 30, 2007 9:17 PM
I'm getting that same uneasy feeling I had when I was twelve and my mom accidentally threw away my dad's copy of Watchmen. (It was retreived without incident. But it was a close call.)
Posted by: Kseniya | December 30, 2007 9:24 PM
Posted by: Ian H Spedding FCD | December 30, 2007 9:25 PM
I think the kid's presentation would have been much more effective (and revealing) if he said nothing and just stood there tearing pages out of the Bible.
Or, better yet, what if he recited the First Amendment while tearing the pages out? Could you imagine the outrage and confusion of these delicate, god-soaked, snowflakes?
Posted by: Dan | December 30, 2007 9:30 PM
Wow, things have changed since I've been in school.
Wait, maybe they haven't. I can easily see at least one of my friends getting in trouble for that kind of thing. I don't think I would have done it, as I didn't want to offend people. That's never been my cup of tea. Although now I realize that it's almost impossible to not offend when discussing religion with most people.
It's certainly not "fire in a crowded theater" territory.
I did scare one girl when I told her I was an atheist. She went and told the teacher. Luckily, that teacher didn't really seem to care very much. He didn't like me that much anyway, but he didn't try and do anything about this little outburst. That was funny, scaring that girl. I'm pretty sure the atheism thing scared her more than the socialism thing. Ah, good times.
This is obviously not a safety issue and anybody who thinks it is is a little baby.
I think it's kind of funny and Mena was correct in pointing out the PC irony of this. Mencken would have a field day, I'm sure.
phat
Posted by: phat | December 30, 2007 9:32 PM
Haha, this is hilarious. Yes, it's very much an issue of mindless anti-atheist sentiment, but it's also an issue of irrational fear of school shootings that's sprung up since Columbine and peaks every time a tragedy like VA Tech occurs. People on school campuses feel threatened by everything these days.
Also, schools haven't really proven themselves to be hotbeds of free speech these past few decades. When I went through high school, I got the distinct impression that the school administration was callous and completely uninterested in affording students any kind of protection of free speech and other rights. And it's not like I was a rebellious high schooler in any way - I followed the rules as best I could, dressed as unassumingly as I could, never pulled any pranks. But things like the Bong Hits 4 Jesus incident in Alaska really seem to drive this point home.
Posted by: Stephen | December 30, 2007 9:33 PM
FtK:
The difference between the Bible and "War and Peace" or "Origin of Species" is that the Bible is used by an extremely large group of people to justify how they view and treat others. It is taken as truth even though it is historically and scientifically inaccurate.
Your analogy would have been more accurate if your example had used a book on Homeopathy or faith healing rather than a work of fiction or science. In that case most people would have understood and reacted quite differently than you propose. The only reason the reaction was overblown is because the Bible is viewed by some as unique and more important than other books.
Posted by: Gary Bohn | December 30, 2007 9:34 PM
If you watch the video report, the offended girl mentions that the other book used in the presentation was "Atlas Shrugged" (which she hilariously pronounces "shrug-ged").
If the guy was a Randite, I can understand how she could be a-skeered. Those folks scare me too. :-)
Posted by: Donnie B. | December 30, 2007 9:35 PM
Feh. The Bible is a piece of crap. It's not even particularly well-written trash. I'd like to hear the kid's side of the story. But from what I hear of his performance art, I like it.
Posted by: Stogoe | December 30, 2007 9:37 PM
No. They're not really more tolerant. They are simply forced to follow laws to prevent them from killing nonbelievers on the spot.
Thankfully, our laws still trump the Bible.
Posted by: Dan | December 30, 2007 9:38 PM
Ahem.
You Janus-faced devil, you! :-)
Posted by: Blake Stacey | December 30, 2007 9:45 PM
But *sniffle* Christians are so persecuted in our society, and this just proves it even more clearly! If we allow the eeevil Atheists to get away with stunts like this, they'll start sneaking into infants' bedrooms at night and stealing their souls and drinking their blood.
Hostile as this kid's little "demonstration" was, it was not threatening, except maybe to Invisible Bearded Sky Dude.
Posted by: Shigella | December 30, 2007 9:49 PM
rjb (#17):
Yeah. Where's the kid with the camera phone when you need him?
Posted by: Blake Stacey | December 30, 2007 9:49 PM
From the linked blog entry:
PZ did come through at the end as a true bibliophile.
Posted by: Sean | December 30, 2007 9:50 PM
No doubt Ms. Jacobson feels threatened because she might be near the offending boy when the bears come to kill him. Bears are notorious for their inability to eat only one.
Posted by: John Pieret | December 30, 2007 9:52 PM
Janesville, eh. That's where my Bush toady congressman, Paul Ryan, comes from. It's unfortunate that he has had no credible opponents in the last few elections.
Posted by: me | December 30, 2007 10:00 PM
I don't care that the book was the bible or War and Peace or anything else. The student who ripped up the book was reported to be acting in a hostile and demeaning manner. This is completely inappropriate in a classroom setting, regardless of the content of the words. (The report may not be accurate, but we're discussing the behavior as reported - take it as a hypothetical if you like.) If the school had not acted to punish a student for such a hostile display I would also have looked for another school for my children. Just because you agree with someone's hostility does not make it acceptable.
I speak as an atheist who views the bible as, despite it's occasional good passages, overall a disaster for western civilization.
As others have said, it's unfortunate that this incident is reinforcing the "hostile atheist" image. I think it's just a "hostile teenager" issue and should be condemned as such.
Posted by: steve | December 30, 2007 10:01 PM
If we're going for performance art, I think it would have been better to nail a baby jesus to a bible through the groin as a graphic representation of what religion does to people.
Posted by: qedpro | December 30, 2007 10:01 PM
I'd have assumed it was Sal Cordova.
Posted by: Brachychiton | December 30, 2007 10:04 PM
Also, we need to get transcripts of the kids grades. they're probably flunking and were looking for an excuse.
Or maybe we could start a movement to ban religous symbols. no kids should be able to wear crosses around their necks because it is so threatening and intimidating to other students.
Posted by: qedpro | December 30, 2007 10:06 PM
If you really want to see a reaction, just tear up a Watchtower in a crowded laundromat.
Posted by: BobbyEarle | December 30, 2007 10:09 PM
Where did you get this from?:
I don't get that from the link at all. Sounds to me like it just offended superstitious people. So what? They are pretty easy to offend.
Posted by: afterthought | December 30, 2007 10:12 PM
But was God offended, has anyone even asked him?
Posted by: @ | December 30, 2007 10:23 PM
He should have simultaneously made that "ripping noise" with his mouth for more dramatic effect.
Posted by: danley | December 30, 2007 10:24 PM
"In a separate incident, following the punishment, three Parker High Students wore T-shirts asking for the student in question to be brought back after a punishment was levied against him. School officials made those students change clothes."
Sounds like business as usual at high school. The administrators are much more about maintaining quiet than they are about any kind of fairness.
As far as the presentation goes, the only accounts we have of it are from the offended Christians (who apparently want to pull their daughters from that school due to the actions of one student and him apparently not being hung by the toes for it. Persecution: it doesn't mean what you think it means). It is entirely possible that the kid was trying to intimidate, but it's also possible that he was merely trying to make a point ("because I can"). Hard to say, really.
Posted by: Rey Fox | December 30, 2007 10:30 PM
The school district claims that the student was possibly being disciplined (they wouldn't confirm or deny it), but, if he was, it was for actions not related to the Bible. I have to wonder what else he did.
I also wonder what the presentation was about, why Ayn Rand (gag)?
Posted by: dogmeatib | December 30, 2007 10:30 PM
to Afterthought: maybe I'm getting old and grew up in a more genteel time (ah for the 60's!) but in my world: "this piece of crap" is hostile; "your stupid, little minds" is hostile and demeaning. Outside a classroom these are certainly very low levels of hostility and insult, but a classroom is, of necessity, a special protected place where there is no place for any level of (teacher sanctioned) hostility. As a former part-time teacher I would _never_ have tolerated such language in my classroom.
Posted by: steve | December 30, 2007 10:30 PM
If the boy did say those things like it was told, I agree with FtK (what?!). (I thought she was banned, by the way, but this post of hers does not seem to be a troll, good for her I guess.) What the hell is that guy doing taking center stage and ripping the pages of any book, and then insulting his audience. I wouldn't feel threatened, but that guy needs a little anger management.
Again, IF it happened that way. Somehow little girls that get offended on their religious little sensibilities don't inspire much trust in me, but we don't know if this girl is that kind of girl either, from the article.
Posted by: andyo | December 30, 2007 10:35 PM
I'm not sure if the reaction to this kid's actions are necessarily fear of atheism as much as fear of a reprise of the many incidents of school violence since 1999, i.e. Colombine, Jonesboro, etc. The "stupid, little minds" comment implies that the kid considers the other students to possess inferior intelligence. In this day and age, I might be freaked out, too, regardless of my religion.
Posted by: Elin | December 30, 2007 10:48 PM
Had the students been Muslim they'd have killed him on the spot.
Yes, even those Muslim children are savage, murdering beasts! I don't know why we don't just nuke them all. I suppose even animals deserve some rights.
Posted by: coathangrrr | December 30, 2007 10:49 PM
Such behavior is well known to call down the wrath of God, who has notoriously bad aim. You may be sure that the next leaking lavatory will be due to divine displeasure.
Posted by: Nightcap | December 30, 2007 10:58 PM
Free speech is only free when it offends. Nobody is going to charge you for saying things they agree with.
Now, what's the difference between babies and muffins?
Posted by: Ollie | December 30, 2007 10:59 PM
Rudeness and hostility are inappropriate for a classroom and can be upsetting. It does rather depend on the circs. Was this a everybody-make-one "speech" or just a conversation? What about tone of voice and body language?
Posted by: Monado | December 30, 2007 11:06 PM
makes an effective argument.Sure can tell how this would sound on the local 6 o'clock news, or in the daily newspaper, wherever "local" is.
But there were other options. The student might, for example, have studied up on ink washing techniques and turned the book into a palimpset, overwriting it with lab notes or notes for World of Warcraft or something.
I don't think that asserting
Posted by: ekzept | December 30, 2007 11:10 PM
Atlas Shrugged vs. The Bible?
Not sure which one I'd be more inclined to rip to shreds.
Two books that deserve all the abuse they receive.
Posted by: CalGeorge | December 30, 2007 11:14 PM
I guess they'd better install some extra lightning rods or something. Maybe a Faraday cage around the school. And some earthquake protection. Oh yeah, and a tsunamis warning system.
ISTM that the appropriate action is to scratch your head and wonder what the heck this kids problem is. But the appropriate action is also the least likely one, especially in a school.
Posted by: BaldApe | December 30, 2007 11:24 PM
...so he tore some pages out of the Bible? I don't get it, how does this threaten anyone and why does it even matter? If I was a Christian, I don't see how I could mind this at all. I might not be particularly happy about it, but it's not like he destroyed some original texts or something. There's millions of Bibles and online versions for free. They have no reason to get upset about it.
That said, this is just another example of Christians trying to repress free speech because it offends their sensibilities. :(
Posted by: Alex | December 30, 2007 11:27 PM
"You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!"
The line between an Ayn Rand moment and an Ed Wood one is fine indeed.
Posted by: has | December 30, 2007 11:38 PM
Yeah, damn those kids, always trying to make points! If I'm reading correctly, this guy is basically saying that there never *was* any kind of threat or confrontation. The kid just made a statement about his own beliefs and his right to express them, and that's apparently "vile."
Posted by: Heliologue | December 30, 2007 11:43 PM
As for the whiny Christianists, let me know when the evil atheists start physically nailing 'em to trees, otherwise it's all just grandstanding asshattery.
Posted by: has | December 30, 2007 11:43 PM
Didn't Jefferson cut up the bible til there was nothing left when he was alive? should we inform lil miss priss about what one of our founders did to the bible?
Posted by: Chris | December 30, 2007 11:47 PM
The furor and the publicity and the overreaction seem like they're legitimately stupid, and the reported quotes seem pretty revealing in that the basic motives seem to be censorship more than censure.
Nonetheless, it seems to me that suspension, for being deliberately disruptive in class, might actually be appropriate. After all, this was apparently an English class, not a Performance Art class.
I mean, never mind the religious bit -- unless there was an unusual amount of leeway in the assignment, "give a presentation" generally doesn't involve grossly and directly insulting your audience, and if the "stupid little minds" comment was in fact an accurate report, then some disciplinary action might in fact be in order.
Not that I think a reasonable and proportionate response is likely at this point. But, to mix a metaphor, you might consider the color of your horse before you decide to back it...
Posted by: comingstorm | December 30, 2007 11:51 PM
Run for your lives!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrUPXg2Tj4E
Posted by: CalGeorge | December 30, 2007 11:53 PM
Of course it's a safety issue. He could have gotten a nasty paper cut.
Posted by: Chayanov | December 30, 2007 11:55 PM
For a slightly different perspective read here:
http://www.gazettextra.com/news/2007/dec/20/bible-incident-draws-concerns/?print
"In the course of doing so, he stated that no word of the Bible is true, that those who thought so were 'idiots,' that he would prove that persons in the class were 'ignoramuses for believing in the Bible,' and that the Bible was written by 'a bunch of old Mesopotamian men with sand up their (expletive.)'
While the objection was indeed because it was a bible that was torn
the school presented it as a language/hate speech issue
I certainly don't think his behaviour was appropriate or constructive and I also don't think it would have received the same attention if he had torn up any other book. But he did prove his point, their minds couldn't cope with it
Posted by: Quiddam | December 31, 2007 12:06 AM
Well the lad in question has just shown that he knows more about the US constitution and has more balls than anyone on the Republican side of politics. He should run for President.
Posted by: Wobert | December 31, 2007 12:07 AM
Inspired by Ralph Waldo Emerson, apparently.
http://www.nbc15.com/blogs/chrispapst/12815342.html
On December 7th a Janesville Parker High School student got up in front of his class to give a speech on Ralph Waldo Emerson. During the exhibition he held up a bible, pointed to it and said that it had no reasoning and declared its contents untrue. The speech also included the young boy ripping pages out of the book and throwing them on the ground.
The Parker School District confirms the incident occurred. And, the Janesville Gazette reports the student was suspended and required to undergo a psychological evaluation before he can return to school.
[...]
The Janesville Gazette reports that, "In the course of doing so, he stated that no word of the Bible is true, that those who thought so were 'idiots,' that he would prove that persons in the class were 'ignoramuses for believing in the Bible,' and that the Bible was written by 'a bunch of old Mesopotamian men with sand up their (expletive.)'
Posted by: CalGeorge | December 31, 2007 12:08 AM
Whereas I skip church because...
Posted by: Epistaxis | December 31, 2007 12:16 AM
Yeah, that's just wrong. Desecrating the Holy Bible being ripped to shreds with that awful music.
Posted by: Frank Mitchell | December 31, 2007 12:19 AM
....the decor upsets you?
Posted by: wobert | December 31, 2007 12:23 AM
During the exhibition he held up a bible, pointed to it and said that it had no reasoning and declared its contents untrue. The speech also included the young boy ripping pages out of the book and throwing them on the ground.
The Parker School District confirms the incident occurred. And, the Janesville Gazette reports the student was suspended and required to undergo a psychological evaluation before he can return to school.
A psychological evaluation is being administered to someone because he doubts the veracity of the bible? Janesville Parker High: taking irony to new heights.
Posted by: J Myers | December 31, 2007 12:32 AM
This incident actually reminds me of something that happened to me over Christmas. When the family went for Christmas mass and I politely refused, one of my younger cousins asked why. I responded that I didn't believe in Jesus, and he was so terrified of me that he still hasn't seen or spoke to me
Posted by: David | December 31, 2007 12:34 AM
All the time I spent in the high school years coming up with excuses to skip school, yet that one never occurred to me.
Posted by: thalarctos | December 31, 2007 12:47 AM
I'm sure Richard Dawkins wouldn't mind if the offended ones bought a few copies each of The God Delusion to tear up in response. If they wanted to tear up God is Not Great, Hitchens might even sign it first.
Posted by: efrique | December 31, 2007 1:01 AM
Just because the student was ripping pages out of "The Holey Buybull" does not make him an atheist. Also, that doesn't automatically make him violent either. I've done worse things myself just to make a point. However, The "stupid little minds" comment shows hatred and contempt. The kid probably has a few issues other than a disrespect for holy books.
Poor Elle. I hope she can get over her irrational fear of me and blame the one who actually scared her. The kid in class, not me. I'm a perty nice guy if I say so myself. Despite the fact that I don't believe in Jod or Geezus.
Posted by: Robert Madewell | December 31, 2007 1:08 AM
It's a good start by a budding young Discordianist, but for really great reactions the kid should next have offered not to tear any more pages out in exchange for a ransom. Heads a'splodin!
Posted by: melior | December 31, 2007 1:12 AM
I went to a school that had slave auctions as fund raisers (it was a heavily integrated school with no racial animosity that I ever noticed) for fundraisers.
We had debates, and a performance like this would have been encouraged. I myself once found myself being confronted by a room full of kids arguing against my atheism, and the teacher stood there with a smile, liking the fact that we were really engaged (I suspect he's an atheist)
Rudeness and hostility inappropriate in a high school classroom? Who says? We had that, and after class we were alls till friends. We learned to THINK.
This was an honors school though, and the idea was not to teach for the test and teach good little compliant citizens. Many of my classmates are now professors, scientists, authors, artists, CEOs etc. One so far has had a broadway play and then movie made based on his life.
High School shouldn't be kindergarten. Hostility between students in the halls needs to be kept in check, but loud opinionated, obnoxious projects and presentations should be encouraged.
Posted by: craig | December 31, 2007 1:37 AM
PZ,
Sacredness does exist. Using the approach of negation (think Zen, Jiddu Krishnamurti, or Karl Popper) where the truth is found by understanding the false, I think one rather quickly comes to see that people treat each other badly in chronic and acute ways because of ideology. Thus people think that symbols and symbol systems are sacred instead of the non-symbolic, i.e. the sacred is to be found in relationship to nature and to each other.
Having 'Sacred books' is a form of idolatry.
Posted by: Kai Terran | December 31, 2007 1:43 AM
As several comments have already mentioned, I think many people here are mistaking her motives. Put yourself in her shoes:
It's another boring day in school. Some kid in class is giving a boring presentation on Emerson. Suddenly, instead of talking about Emerson, he is ranting at the students in front of him, insulting all of them, and destroys some object in his hand.
It's less about the Bible and Christianity than the unprovoked outburst of anger, the display of violence, the belittling of everyone else in the class. There was nothing in any of those stories mentioning that this was a performance piece, or that anything set him off. It could be that he was frustrated and alienated by the other kids in the school because of his beliefs, but then that just means that this was barely-suppressed rage coming to the surface without provocation.
I am well aware that statistically I'd be far more likely to get hit by a truck than be killed in a school shooting (and the media loves school-shooting fear mongering). However, I can't realistically say I haven't been affected by the fear-mongering at all, and if I were in that class I might wonder whether this kid fits the psychological profile of a school shooter.
And no, I do not think that atheists are more violent than Christians, or that the motives of school shooters have anything to do with religion or lack thereof. And yes, I am an atheist.
Posted by: klikt | December 31, 2007 1:53 AM
I'm shocked and disappointed by people standing up for this kid here. Correctness and appropriateness are not identical concepts, and being right doesn't mean you're not an asshole. There are constructive ways to make a point, and, by what I can see from this story, this isn't one of them.
This is not an atheist persecution issue, as far as I can tell. This idiot delivered an insulting, inflammatory, aggressive rant in a wholly inappropriate scholastic setting. I'd worry about his psychological stability -- and the safety of those forced to interact with him -- too.
Posted by: Jake | December 31, 2007 1:54 AM
This young man displayed terrible judgment in the classroom. I agree with Steve @ comment #43 that it was a hostile and demeaning thing for him to do what he did and say what he did (assuming the reports about it are accurate.) I do not think we should be deriding "poor baby" Elle for being afraid especially in this post Columbine world and in light of recent shootings involving disturbed young men. He did not have a gun but she is also an immature teenager and obviously felt threatened by his actions. Do we make light of that? Well, then should we make fun of the University of Colorado scientists for perceiving Michael Korn's writings and his presence on campus to be threatening? Hostility is no joke.
Posted by: Louise Van Court | December 31, 2007 1:56 AM
sorry but i have to say it:
comparing ripping up a bible to threats of bodily harm is fucking ridiculous.
good luck with that argument in a court of law.
Posted by: Ichthyic | December 31, 2007 2:07 AM
lemme get this straight. We have one part of the story from a teenager who does not appear to be particularly intelligent. We have nothing to substantiate any part of what she claims happened - no statement from the student, or the teachers or any other student.
And from that, it's decided that the student was immature, irresponsible, violent, boorish, and hostile?
yikes.
Posted by: CanadianChick | December 31, 2007 2:22 AM
Ichthyic @ 78: Hear, hear! That's more or less exactly what I was going to write.
Posted by: KM | December 31, 2007 2:22 AM
Heck, I'm afraid of theists-- they're irrational and always saying creepy things about this invisible guy who killed his kid for me and threatening eternal damnation...
but no one ever protected me from them.
I bet the father pulling his kids out of school because his daughter is afraid regularly lets preachers put the "fear of god" into her.
Tsk.
Posted by: articulett-- the ungodly goddess | December 31, 2007 2:24 AM
Calling your classmates 'stupid idiots' with 'tiny minds' is not the sort of rhetoric that belongs in classroom presentation. Though of course it's common on blogs.
And if it turns out the kid was an Ayn Rand fan, I'll be even less sympathetic.
Posted by: Steven Sullivan | December 31, 2007 2:32 AM
This kid tore up some paper and used a G-rated insult in high school. If you are disturbed by this, I have a great deal of sympathy for you; you must find day-to-day life absolutely terrifying.
Posted by: J Myers | December 31, 2007 2:32 AM
Am I the only one that suspects that poor little snowflake was, say, unprepared for her own assignment in said class and seized the text ripping moment as a version of "the dog ate my homework" writ large? I wonder how her dirt stupid daddy's ripping her from the school altogether is sitting with her now?
As to the boy's manners or lack thereof, if he used profanity or otherwise broke the rules of the school, give him detention and get over it. The school shooter types don't have the confidence to get up in public and air their ridicule so proudly.
Posted by: raindogzilla | December 31, 2007 2:32 AM
Looks like you have more than enough comments on this already, but....
The act itself may be considered abusive, in that yelling at people and calling them stupid is abusive. Also destroying any form of literature can have disturbing overtones, a la Nazi Germany.
I don't know if anyone has made the point already that there are still parents and christian groups in America who will actually hold book burnings, which are much more chilling in being supported by the establishment.
Posted by: markp | December 31, 2007 2:33 AM
This taking place in Janesville leads me to think the student in question was possibly reacting to how the majority treats anyone that is different. I know that Janesville was a center for racial bigotry 10-15 years ago when I was studying the white supremacist movement, and I seriously doubt much has changed (this is backed up by what I have been able to find through a quick google). This leads me to think it is possible the community is good at making anyone that is different feel right at home. I might have reacted similarly in high school if faced with that type of environment. If there is a safety issue here, it may not be that the christians are the ones in danger.
Posted by: Bruce | December 31, 2007 2:45 AM
I have nothing of value to add to the conversation... just got all excited to see a story from my hometown. In fact, I graduated from Parker.
That is all.
Posted by: RA | December 31, 2007 2:56 AM
I'd like to join the short line of people disappointed in those defending the actions of this young man. Despite what Ichthyic implies you do not need a verbal ultimatum of bodily harm to severely threaten people. Direct insults, a menacing tone and, to top it off, a display of violence against objects can come across as very threatening. Especially when the speaker goes out of the way to make a connection between that object and the people he's talking to, making the expapyration of the bible a proxy for violence against his audience. Maybe it isn't nearly so bad as threatening to blow someone's brains out, but it's still bad, and can still be frightening.
Of course, there's also the question of how atheists would react if that same student had done the same thing with a copy of The God Delusion and a class of atheists, calling them idiots for not believing and referencing Bertrand(?) Russel's intestinally embedded collection of fine china. I imagine it wouldn't quite have the same impact, but I imagine he would be described as a lame-brained Christobot with anger issues. Nobody would defend or care about his right to free speech. Propping this young man up as an example of atheist persecution is hardly symmetrical. There's really nothing saying he isn't a lame-brained atheistbot with anger issues. He's not the sort of person we want representing the atheist cause, especially when he doesn't get around to