Texas has been considering this application from the Institute for Creation Science for approval to offer a degree in "science" "education" (a double misnomer!). Now there's an excellent idea afloat by the Texas commissioner of higher education — go ahead, give 'em a degree, only call it "creation studies". Perfect! It removes the problem of false labeling, and allowing people who aren't actually qualified to teach science get jobs in the public school system. And it actually gives the graduates of programs in creation studies an edge in acquiring high paying jobs in the Baptist Sunday School sector. Everyone wins!
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More articles by PZ Myers can be found on Freethoughtblogs at the new Pharyngula!
A clever compromise
Category: Creationism
Posted on: January 11, 2008 10:53 AM, by PZ Myers
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Comments
Posted by: John Marley | January 11, 2008 11:10 AM
Somehow, I don't think ICR will be too happy with that. It defeats their plan to gain the illusion of scientific credibility.
Still, I guess it goes to show that there may yet be some small hope for Texas.
Posted by: frank | January 11, 2008 11:12 AM
A few years ago my wife and I wrote a book called The Department of Homeland Decency: Decency Rules and Regulations Manual because of the ignorance of so many of our elected leaders nationwide. It's just been published this week by Three Rivers Press and is a political satire of what these folks want. I have to admit that I was worried that the book's time had passed before it was released. But now I know it hasn't. Evolution is still under attack. Abstinence education is being funded by Democrats. The government funds faith-based groups. Creationism is still being taught. The Supreme Court seems to be putting God in the Constitution. And Huckabee is running strong. We're going to be fighting these battles for a long time.
I'll plug my book here, because I do think it's funny. It's at bookstores everywhere, and at amazon.com.
Posted by: caynazzo | January 11, 2008 11:16 AM
Mexico can have Texas back now.
Posted by: Glen Davidson | January 11, 2008 11:26 AM
I still wish it were simply called "theology," which is what it is.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: Rav Winston | January 11, 2008 11:32 AM
Slightly off topic, although the YECs can be fairly accurately described as "potato heads...."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/cornwall/7179368.stm
http://www.metro.co.uk/weird/article.html?in_article_id=83550&in_page_id=2
Posted by: holbach | January 11, 2008 11:32 AM
Wow, now we have a choice between Florida and Texas.
We can choose either a pot of piss or a pot of shit!
It could be worse: we could be standing up to our necks
in shit while it is pouring piss. Either open your mouth
wide or go under for salvation !
Posted by: Paul W. | January 11, 2008 11:34 AM
Anybody interested in this subject should check out the relevant articles at the Texas Citizens for Science web page: http://www.texscience.org/
Central Texans can attend their briefing Wednesday at 7 PM at Mangia Pizza; see their site for details & maps. Chris Comer will be there. (She's state science ed director who was forced out over forwarding an email about Barbara Forrest's talk about the Dover case for Center For Inquiry Austin.)
Posted by: thadd | January 11, 2008 11:52 AM
I agree with the poster above that said it could be called theology, but would suggest that they add some sort of certificate or label to the degree, so that those of us who actually study religion and theology would be able to know who specialized in creationism and ignore them as well.
Posted by: Rich Stage | January 11, 2008 11:52 AM
It seems that in Texas, Duane Gish
might actually get his wish!
A "science" degree,
so that all will now see
that man came from no stinkin' fish!
Now, hold on! What's this that I see?
His "science" is just mockery?
I have to think for a bit,
and recover my wit,
and I'll finish this up in verse three.
The ICR shouts "How do you know
that what the Bible says just isn't so?"
Snug in their lair,
they scream "WERE YOU THERE?"
But when asked for science they skulk back below.
Posted by: Woodwose | January 11, 2008 11:58 AM
Would this program cause "look and feel" copyright infringements with the degrees issued to homeopaths, chiropractors, iridologists, and feng shui practitioners?
Posted by: MikeM | January 11, 2008 12:14 PM
But what is there to study? All you need to know about Creationism can be learned in 10 minutes.
Jeebus.
It took me longer to figure out how keys work on SQL tables than it'd take the average person to know everything you need to know about Creationism. "God of the Gaps." Done.
We still haven't seen Creationism produce even a hypothesis, let alone a theory. That's worthy of study?
Posted by: Zeno | January 11, 2008 12:35 PM
Would the diplomas for creation science degrees include quotation marks around "science"?
Posted by: Rich Stage | January 11, 2008 12:43 PM
That's the greatest part about it!
Plunk down $500, write "Goddidit" on your answer sheet, and get your "science" "education" degree.
Easiest 'A' ever.
Posted by: negentropyeater | January 11, 2008 12:46 PM
But what will you call someone with such a degree ?
A Creator ? Nah
A Cretin ? Possible
A Creationer ? Also can.
So when will you go and see a Creationer ?
How much will you pay for their services ?
What will be the use of those "professionals" ?
Will they serve as
-"death counselors",
-"soul technicians",
-"spirit hunters",
-"intelligence redesigners"
-"conversion therapists"
-"flood engineers"
-"pain in the ass developers"
...so many interesting carreer prospects.
Posted by: RAM | January 11, 2008 12:56 PM
"All you need to know about Creationism can be learned in 10 minutes."
For many people, I believe that's exactly the point. Science is work. Science takes investigation and time to learn and evaluate new (or old) explanations within whatever field you are discussing. Belief takes absolutely no work or effort. And there are no personal consequences if they just choose to stick their godly heads in the sand. They can still hold a job, pay the bills, buy a car. They do suffer any personal effects of being ignorant, and plenty of positive effects of being mutually associated with other believers within the flocks of Jebus believers.
I personally believe scientists, or the Bill Nye/Mr. Science types need to make science fun and understandable again as a public relations tool
Posted by: RAM | January 11, 2008 12:57 PM
correction.....They do NOT suffer any personal effects of being ignorant.............
Posted by: RAM | January 11, 2008 12:59 PM
Opps, correction.....They do NOT suffer any personal effects of being ignorant.............
Posted by: negentropyeater | January 11, 2008 1:00 PM
I can't wait to see some of the numerous applications that will come out of "Creation Science" :
- MRTT (Male Rib Transformation Technology)
- Vinohematopoiesis
- TripleM (Miracle Making Machines)
- Theocommunications (with a range of devices and services to communicate more efficiently with our holy father and the dead, and to make prayers more effcient)
- Heaven Insurance policies
Posted by: RAM | January 11, 2008 1:00 PM
Opps, correction, They do suffer any personal effects of being ignorant, ........
Posted by: RAM | January 11, 2008 1:07 PM
Opps, correction....They do NOT suffer any personal effects of being ignorant, and
Posted by: Chuck C | January 11, 2008 1:16 PM
Off topic, but where's the Friday cephelopod? I need squid, man!
Posted by: Chuck C | January 11, 2008 1:19 PM
Eep! Make that "cephalopod". Stupid fingers.
Posted by: Sastra, OM | January 11, 2008 1:42 PM
I once spoke with someone who claimed he enrolled and went to Oral Roberts University without first being aware of exactly who Oral Roberts was. Although he was an evangelical fundamentalist at the time, there are evidently various degrees of evangelical fundamentalism, and he was "liberal" by the standards of the rest of the people on campus. The guy ended up getting expelled a semester before graduation.
When he transferred to a legitimate public university, they weren't sure how to count some of his credits. He had taken several classes in "Creation Science." According to him, the college came up with an idea and allowed it to count towards his degree as "American Mythology."
Posted by: Marcus Ranum | January 11, 2008 1:48 PM
Sounds like time for a counter-strike. Let's get all the scientists to start calling themselves "reverend" and "father" and "his holiness" and "imam" - think of the confusion!!! "His holiness said creationism is wrong!" "My imam told me that god is imaginary!" "Reverend Smith said that the flying spaghetti monster could kick jebus' a**!"
Posted by: Marcus Ranum | January 11, 2008 1:50 PM
But what will you call someone with such a degree ?
I'll call him "Hey, lawn-boy!" or maybe "the guy who fixed my car muffler."
Posted by: negentropyeater | January 11, 2008 2:05 PM
"Creation studies", the only studies that only require one textbook.
Posted by: zer0 | January 11, 2008 2:07 PM
"I still wish it were simply called "mythology," which is what it is."
Fixed
Posted by: Larry | January 11, 2008 2:08 PM
As far as jobs after graduation, I sure hope they drill their students with the phrase "You want fries with that?".
Posted by: bill r | January 11, 2008 2:19 PM
Marcus,
Don't Discordians nominate anyone as pope?
Posted by: Bruce Almighty | January 11, 2008 2:40 PM
Heh - it'd be the only sheepskin written in Comic Sans MS!
Posted by: Pablo | January 11, 2008 3:32 PM
The important thing to note is that they aren't fooling anyone. Call it science all you want, everyone knows you are talking about creationism.
Posted by: Tulse | January 11, 2008 3:37 PM
Nice one, negentropyeater!
Posted by: Phoenician in a time of Romans | January 11, 2008 4:33 PM
Sounds like time for a counter-strike. Let's get all the scientists to start calling themselves "reverend" and "father" and "his holiness" and "imam" - think of the confusion!!! "His holiness said creationism is wrong!" "My imam told me that god is imaginary!" "Reverend Smith said that the flying spaghetti monster could kick jebus' a**!"
Take this, print, and pass around, Your Holiness.
Posted by: Neil | January 11, 2008 5:03 PM
Re: "You want fries with that?"
The assumption that studying creation science necessarily leads to a career in foodservice offends me. It takes a lot more than some crappy church diploma to make it as a burger jockey! Fast food work is at least as intellectually demanding as "creation science" (meaning that it helps to be at least semi-literate) and requires a whole hell of a lot more honest hard work. And there's nothing a "creation scientist" hates more than honest hard work.
These fools will end up at Wal-mart, where drooling lobotomites get paid to pass gas and forget what little knowledge they ever possessed.
Or the next rapture-ready fascist that gets elected president might just appoint some of them to influential positions within the federal government, putting them in charge of all our childrens' education! Not so funny now, is it?
Posted by: Christopher Heard | January 11, 2008 7:13 PM
Great suggestion, except that I'm not sure what people actually study at ICR. You have to affirm their "tenets of scientific creationism" and "tenets of biblical creationism" just to apply to their "graduate school" program. So if your mind is made up before you even pay the application fee, what's left to study?
Posted by: BaldApe | January 11, 2008 7:39 PM
"It removes the problem of ...allowing people who aren't actually qualified to teach science get jobs in the public school system."
If only.
Posted by: Robert | January 11, 2008 10:24 PM
Are they going to teach the Emperor Zenu Creation Account?
P.S., I hope the Scientologists won't sue me, praise Zenu!
Posted by: Token Discordian | January 12, 2008 1:06 PM
bill r, from a Discordian perspective we are all popes.
Posted by: Doug Rozell | January 13, 2008 2:14 PM
RE #10: While there is no evidence to support ideas such as homeopathy and feng shui, you'd better learn a little more about chiropractic and the history of medicne before you display your ignorance again. Not altogether your fault, to be sure.
The antipathy in American health care to chiropractic dates from the earliest years of the 20th century, when the latter half of the 19th showed so much quackery as to bring the entire work of medicine into the same general disrepute as that of snake oil barkers. In 1907 the Carnegie Foundation commissioned Abraham Flexnor to research a study of the state of medical education in the USA. The Flexnor Report (1910) properly decried the lack of evidence-based standards of education in health care that had been the case since before Pasteur's and Lister's identification of the germ theory of disease. Unfortnuately, after Flexnor and because of his recommendations, *only* the germ theory was recognized as the foundation of rational medical practice. As if medicine did not treat broken bones as well as, eventually, endocrinal-based disorders, among other syndromes.
At the time, scientific imaging technology was incapable of seeing nervous tissue within bones, and so literally could not see how ill-health could have other than a biotic etiology. That ignorance has largely been overcome in the decades since, although prejudice against the evidence-tested, theoretical foundation of skeletal manipulation for the relief of pain and chronic distress still remains, chiefly in the USA.
In 1979 I presented a paper "Chiropractic and Medicine: A Case Study in the Sociology of Knowledge" to the Learned Societies of Canada. For decades since Flexnor, the debate between chiropractic and allopatric health care supposed that its real ground was monetary, a financial turf war. My paper instead shows that the conflict was foundationally about the imperative need to establish the professional credentials of modern medical care, and the consequent inability of especially *American* allopatric medicine to admit it did not have all of the answers.
The theoretical point of my case study was that *ideas matter*. Not all intellectual disputes have comprehensive analysis in the money trail, and who gets to keep a job. The scientific entreprise, for all its warts and ugliness, truly is founded upon two of our species' most noble attributes: curiousity, and intellectual integrity.
Doug Rozell, M.A. (Sociology), Ph.D (Philosophy of Science, pending), M.L.I.S.
Canada