Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
PZ Myers is a biologist and associate professor at the University of Minnesota, Morris.
…and this is a pharyngula stage embryo.
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When we describe something as a random process or an event as occurring by chance, there are two very different things that we may have in mind. …[One such concept of chance applies to processes] that are apparently random, but have a deterministic basis. … The process is apparently random because we are ignorant of at least part of the deterministic basis. We use words like chance and random to indicate our ignorance. "We should separate apparently random processes from irreducibly random processes. An irreducibly random process is one that has no deterministic basis. That is, for an irreducibly random process, there is no set of laws of nature that can be applied to a complete description of the initial state of the system to permit the deduction of a description of the outcome.
Philip Kitcher, Abusing Science (Cambridge: MIT Press, 1982), p. 86.
Digit numbering and limb development
More details of cephalopod dinner etiquette
Acoelomorph flatworms and precambrian evolution
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Category: Religion
Posted on: January 27, 2008 12:20 PM, by PZ Myers
Thanks, Revere, for making me the point man.
I didn't even mention the crazy people whose faith was rejuvenated by an imperfect potato. Although I would agree with your policy of agreeing with me.
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Comments
Posted by: danley | January 27, 2008 12:31 PM
Idaho nights.
Posted by: Alex | January 27, 2008 12:43 PM
God sure likes putting images of various holy people/things in food, doesn't he? I guess that's just because he has nothing better to do.
Posted by: Kevin L. | January 27, 2008 12:43 PM
I want to believe that this is satire. I really do.
I think the worst part of the story isn't the pareidolia. It's the fact that she was praying about potato salad.
This... Ouch. This is too much.
Posted by: Hank Fox | January 27, 2008 12:44 PM
Idaholatry.
Posted by: Hank Fox | January 27, 2008 12:48 PM
I still say THIS image of Jesus is the one TRUE image.
http://13gb.com/media.php?media_id=2005
Posted by: ennui | January 27, 2008 12:49 PM
As long as gods are speaking in spuds, they should have mentioned that most of the potato's nutritional value lies near/in the skin.
What results is merely potato salad for fruitcakes.
Posted by: Richard Harris | January 27, 2008 1:00 PM
But the site of their savior in a potato has reinvigorated their faith and their desire to help others. (sic)
Jebus is living in a potato, then? Guess he got freaked out living in that heaven place with all those ghosts & things. And he's kinda hung-up on that cross, eh! I'd've thought he'd try to forget about that.
Posted by: MAJeff | January 27, 2008 1:03 PM
Well, if Jesus is a potato, "This is my body. Take. Eat." is waaaaaaaaay different. Well, something separates bread from potatoes...There has to be some profound mystical truth in there somewhere.
Posted by: coathangrrr | January 27, 2008 1:06 PM
If only these people could find pictures of atoms or some sort of quantum equations. Then they would "convert" to science. Hmmm, maybe I should be stamping Agravado's Constant on potatoes.
Posted by: Chris | January 27, 2008 1:08 PM
Unrelated point, but I was searching The Orlando Sentinels website for Evolution stories and came across some interesting although disturbing reads. However in one of the comments section I came across your blog. http://www.topix.net/forum/source/orlando-sentinel/TMO0SFVDB8KTQMORH hopefully the link works if not here is what's said. Just to be clear, "i" did not write this:
Island said:
"You may also want to read
http://www.pandasthumb.org "
While the comments and the point of the article may be correct, "Panda's Thumb",(like talk.origins and Pharyngula) is/(are) not a reliable source(s) for unbiased science, although they do a good job of spreading neodarwinian groupthink dogma concerning the debate.
Posted by: Noadi | January 27, 2008 1:10 PM
A couple here in Maine found a potato shaped rather like a catchers mitt right as the Red Sox were heading into the playoffs. Clearly potatos are prophetic veggies.
Posted by: Janine | January 27, 2008 1:17 PM
If the jesus potato was used in the potato salad, it could have sat on the table for three days and then has a resurrection. I think in this case, the potato salad would have been good to eat again.
Posted by: DiscGrace | January 27, 2008 1:26 PM
You know, if you were a divine and omnipotent being with a propensity who had a penchant for appearing to followers on food items, one would at least expect that you'd have the good sense to reveal yourself on a non-rotten potato.
Posted by: Sven DiMilo | January 27, 2008 1:28 PM
Well, it ain't starch...so it must be the Holy GLuten.Posted by: Janine | January 27, 2008 1:35 PM
But DiscGrace, it is a prime example of the big sky daddy taking an evil, a rotten potato, and creating good, the blessed image of an executed man. Just do not try to reason this out, it is beyond our knowledge.
Posted by: Fernando Magyar | January 27, 2008 1:40 PM
That would be Avogadro's constant, right?
Agravado means to have made worse in Spanish.
Unless of course you are referring to someone who's not happy about something and would like to stamp their constant on potatoes.
Posted by: Fernando Magyar | January 27, 2008 1:42 PM
I mean Avogadro's constant.
Posted by: MAJeff | January 27, 2008 1:44 PM
I think we should demand a full miracle and see if a Jesus can turn a potato into an avocado.
Posted by: Janine | January 27, 2008 1:46 PM
MAJeff, in order to do that, you would need Calvin's Transmorgafication Box.
Posted by: MAJeff | January 27, 2008 1:53 PM
Well, Janine, Religion does often seem a lot like Calvinball.
Posted by: Cuttlefish, OM | January 27, 2008 1:56 PM
http://digitalcuttlefish.blogspot.com/2008/01/pareidolia.html
You say "potato", and I say "Jesus"
You say "hey, wait--Oh, just look at the pieces!"
Right there in the bowl, he's so wonderfully holy
Let's call the guys at Fox!
You say "sandwich", and I say "Mary"
You think it's grand, which I think is just scary
But you need no urgin' to see you a virgin
Let's call the guys at Fox!
And Oh!--if we call the guys at Fox
We'll make the news.
And Oh!--If we're on the news,
There's no way we can lose
So if you say "tortilla", and I say "Jesus"
I promise I'll see a real face in the cheeses
How lucky would we be, to be on the TV
Let's call the guys at Fox--
Let's call the guys at Fox!
Posted by: Robbin | January 27, 2008 2:03 PM
"Lord if it's not for me to make potato salad then send me a sign."
Funniest thing I've read all day.
Posted by: Dan | January 27, 2008 2:04 PM
So, you want those chili-cheese Freedom Fries with or without the Jesus?
Posted by: ben | January 27, 2008 2:17 PM
It makes perfect sense that an omnipotent being supposedly able to create the universe and everything in it would be unable to communicate his existence to us except through images appearing in rotten potatoes, freeway underpass oil stains, and grilled cheese sandwiches. Perfect sense. If you're completely fucking retarded.
Posted by: Ken Cope | January 27, 2008 2:20 PM
They're living in their own Private Idaho.
Posted by: Bryson Brown | January 27, 2008 2:57 PM
Lord thunderin' Jesus in a rotten potato! (or Christ on a stick, or...) I think many religious people would be horrified by the thought that a religious message could be delivered in such a quotidian (not to mention foul) medium. Where are the protests, the howls of indignation? Is there no limit to how low God will go? Somehow even I imagine it would be beneath the dignity of a deity to reveal himself in a rotten vegetable...
Posted by: coathangrrr | January 27, 2008 3:24 PM
That would be Avogadro's constant, right?
Damnit, I knew I would screw up the name. I even checked the spelling, but must have had a bout of dislexia as I didn't notice that I had completely messed it up.
Posted by: jpf | January 27, 2008 3:28 PM
Off topic: remember that Utah "family friendly" business that took R/PG-13/PG/Hard-G rated movies, edited all the naughty bits and swears out, and rented them to their good Christian customers? I'll give you three guesses what the guy who owns the company was caught doing...
Posted by: coathangrrr | January 27, 2008 3:48 PM
I'll give you three guesses what the guy who owns the company was caught doing...
You know, for a while I joked about all the republican right-wing christian scandals, but for serious: Are they for real? I mean, does every single republican or fundie who has ever been in the news for any reason have some sort of secret or what? It seems totally unreal.
Posted by: octopod | January 27, 2008 3:55 PM
"Thompson told the 14-year-olds that his film sanitizing business was a cover for a pornography studio. He asked the girls if they would participate in making a porn movie, but they refused, the documents state."
LOL. I wonder whether it actually was, or whether that was just a bit of inventiveness on his part? What a heel...
Posted by: Rav Winston | January 27, 2008 4:00 PM
Hah! I found the Spud of Christ YEARS ago! I was even a part of the Jews for Spud synagogue! (And despite the dating of the Spud to 2000, He was actually with us from as early as 1998)
http://www.glenlachart.com/content/view/20/5/
Posted by: Michael X | January 27, 2008 4:49 PM
Murder, rape, genocide...
And god is busy putting vague images on the inside of potatoes. Naturally.
Posted by: Tulse | January 27, 2008 5:09 PM
I used to complain that fictional portrayals of the publicly religious too often used the lazy trope of hypocrisy. I used to argue that there surely were plenty of people in the public eye who had a genuine passionate belief in their principles, however misguided, and that they could not be dismissed as merely condemning in public what they did in private.
Now, I'm not so sure...
Posted by: Scrofulum | January 27, 2008 5:21 PM
I'm going to open a frachise of 'Spud-U-Worship' there.
Posted by: MAJeff | January 27, 2008 5:29 PM
I'm going to open a frachise of 'Spud-U-Worship' there.
And naming the dishes could be so fun:
The stigmata: Served with ketchup.
Uh oh, no kosher: Served with bacon bits
The love of God: Served with sour cream
it's endless.
Posted by: alex | January 27, 2008 5:34 PM
stamp it on Avocadoes. more potential for ambiguity.Posted by: tacitus | January 27, 2008 5:38 PM
What an odd coincidence. I was just watching an episode of the BBC comedy drama "Jam and Jerusalem" which covered this very topic! Dawn French (of Vicar of Dibley fame) plays a "nutter" who finds a potato that looks like the face of Jesus.
Fortunately it's on YouTube. The set up, which is a beautifully written scene between Rosie (Dawn French) and the local vicar where they discuss the hearing voices and getting signs from God (i.e. why is being hearing from God not a sign of madness?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI9kAZ5PTm4 starting at 1:40
Later Rosie is digging in her allotment (a small vegetable garden), find the potato and brings it to the church:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUS8cAaDr-8 starting at 8:50 and continuing into part 3.
Posted by: jpf | January 27, 2008 5:38 PM
"Crucifries"!
... and a few years later Scrofulum will be caught having illicit relations with Tater Tots.
Posted by: Guz | January 27, 2008 5:42 PM
the Bible says in the last days many will come claiming to be Jesus, and that even the Antichrist will claim to be the Son of God.
Is this Potato bearing the holy mark actually the antichrist?
Will this be the vegetable that leads demonic armies to crush Jerusalem!?
Posted by: jpf | January 27, 2008 5:53 PM
The people who make Veggie Tales are going to have a field day with that.
But how can you demonize Spuddy Buddy Christ?
Posted by: Janine | January 27, 2008 6:23 PM
Spud-U-Worship?
Would these guys be spreading the word?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE1KfORCHR8&feature=related
Posted by: Janine | January 27, 2008 6:25 PM
And now some potato action that must be frowned upon. This unless the french fry and donut are married.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__GK9srwQcQ
Why, yes, I am showing off my geek infested roots.
Posted by: Bride of Shrek | January 27, 2008 7:21 PM
I saw Jesus in my cornflakes this morning. I have taken this to be a sign that not only do I not have to make potato salad today but I also don't have to vacuum, make the beds, do any washing or attack the basket of ironing threatening me in the laundry. St Jesus of the Cornflakes, patron saint of lazy arsedness.
Posted by: Sastra, OM | January 27, 2008 7:40 PM
People don't really want "the Ground of Being" or "Pure Actuality." They don't want "a substance consisting of infinite attributes, each of which expresses eternal and infinite essentiality." They don't want "a symbol of the mystery that lies between the poles of our clearest rational dichotomy." And they certainly don't want "a cosmic force beyond comprehension, beyond all categories, including good and evil."
No, they want a God which will tell them whether or not to make potato salad, find their lost eyeglasses, help them with sickness and grief and parking spaces close to the mall. They want an omnipotent God capable of creating an entire universe with only a thought, but He manifests himself in vague images in rotten vegetables, so that they don't feel too intimidated or anything.
Only a Real and True God could make Himself that small.
Posted by: MAJeff | January 27, 2008 8:01 PM
People don't really want "the Ground of Being" or "Pure Actuality." They don't want "a substance consisting of infinite attributes, each of which expresses eternal and infinite essentiality." They don't want "a symbol of the mystery that lies between the poles of our clearest rational dichotomy." And they certainly don't want "a cosmic force beyond comprehension, beyond all categories, including good and evil."
Even if they did, there seems to be very little of substance to any of these definitions. They all seem like Stein's Oakland.
Posted by: mayhempix | January 27, 2008 8:07 PM
Proof positive Jesus has a peel to the rationally challenegd.
Posted by: Janine | January 27, 2008 8:50 PM
Sastra, OM, after thinking about what you said, I have come up with the ideal way to live the godly life. For every action that I have to choose to do, I will present it as a yes or no question to the big sky daddy. I will then flip a silver dollar. Big sky daddy will effect the coin flip. If it comes up "heads", it will mean "yes". If it comes up "tails", it will mean "no".
I will not have to do things like think for myself or have much knowledge of anything. All the actions that I do or do not take will have been approved by big sky daddy. Also, everything that I do will be ethical because I know I am doing his will.
Rational people may think that I am acting randomly. They will be mistaken. I will be acting in a manner that they cannot hope to understand. I will be living a truly purpose driven life.
Posted by: CParis | January 27, 2008 8:54 PM
This nonsense always makes me laugh. How do this nuts know that the image they are seeing in their potato, donut, toast, fried squirrel or garage wall is the image of Jesus or Mary or whoever? Did they have cellphone cameras 2000 years ago, back when Jesus was riding on a dinosaur?
Posted by: MAJeff | January 27, 2008 8:57 PM
Did they have cellphone cameras 2000 years ago, back when Jesus was riding on a dinosaur?
Yes, but Chuck Norris deleted all the photos.
Posted by: Janine | January 27, 2008 9:00 PM
Bride Of Shrek, thanks for that imagry. Now I am picturing Jesus singing the old Simon And Garfunkel song, "Punky's Dilemma".
I am also wondering if the corn flake becomes his flesh. If so, does the milk become his blood?
Posted by: Janine | January 27, 2008 9:02 PM
Before of after Chucky Baby killed every last dinosaur?
(I have always liked Chuck Barris more than Chuck Norris.)
Posted by: Moses | January 27, 2008 9:25 PM
If I make Pommes Dauphine, is it a sin?
Posted by: MAJeff | January 27, 2008 9:26 PM
Before of after Chucky Baby killed every last dinosaur?
His egg was the meteor that hit the Yucatan? Hmm, Chuck Norris=Super Mork.
Posted by: Sastra, OM | January 27, 2008 10:24 PM
Janine #47 wrote:
The more I think about it, the more "faith" can seem like cold reading, where on one end the "psychic" throws out vague, ambiguous, seemingly specific mystical insights (guesses), and the real work is then done on the other end, as the person being read tries to figure out a way to make the pronouncement fit their life. The more intelligent and creative you are, the more "signs" you will see. And the more you'll get out of it.
There are Christians who use the Bible very much like your coin flip. There's even a fancy word for it, but I can't remember it right now. You think about a question or need you have, then open the Bible at random, to see God's answer. It's a interesting blend of mainstream religion with occult fortune-telling. I use to try it. And usually there's some way to figure out some kind of answer from any passage or verse, by using a free-wheeling association of ideas.
Of course, to "sophisticated" believers, that's supposed to be superstition. And seeing faces in a potato is superstition, too. But watching your life carefully to discern what God is putting in your path to guide you in your faith, oh, that's very different. That part makes sense.
There's never any there, there.
Posted by: Sven DiMilo | January 27, 2008 10:44 PM
Bibliomancy? KJV Ching?Posted by: Sven DiMilo | January 27, 2008 10:47 PM
Ha! I just made up "bibliomancy," but it turns out to be correct!
But I still prefer "KJV Ching."
Posted by: June | January 27, 2008 11:08 PM
I asked God to give me a sign if I need to file taxes this year.
Then I made potato salad. No rotten potato.
So the IRS will not hear from me.
I just hope I don't hear from the IRS.
Posted by: Owlmirror | January 27, 2008 11:18 PM
I'm surprised no-one has posted this...
[and later]
[and later still]
Posted by: Alan Kellogg | January 27, 2008 11:23 PM
#45 MAJeff,
Ben or Gertrude?
Posted by: craig | January 27, 2008 11:24 PM
Someday I hope to find a potato that looks like jesus so I can post video of me dropping its slices into a deep fryer.
Posted by: MAJeff | January 27, 2008 11:41 PM
They all seem like Stein's Oakland."
Ben or Gertrude?
Gertrude's Oakland is Ben's intellect.
Posted by: MAJeff | January 27, 2008 11:43 PM
And I suppose I should add ethics to that as well.
Posted by: RamblinDude | January 28, 2008 12:24 AM
What a strange, strange world the faithful live in. They buy into a belief system that includes miracles and prophecies and deities and outrageous world history, and then they are told that they must believe without evidence, that faith is the highest of virtues. Of course, all the evidence they actually need is the joy and peace within their hearts, but, well, you know, some real proof would be nice. A visit by a winged angel would rock, but a small gesture, a little wink and a nod from their invisible friend would suffice. Imagine their joy when God gives them a sign. Is that...is that Jesus in that stain on the wall? In that cloud formation? In that cheese toasty? In that rotten spot on that potato? Oh, Praise the Lord!! Proof that Jesus is everywhere, and everywhen, and is King of kings!
With confirmation like this, how can they not believe that God answers prayer, and has infinite compassion, and is all loving, and wants his children to worship him--and becomes angry if they don't?
Praise the lord.
Posted by: Robert Thille | January 28, 2008 1:34 AM
THREAD HIJACK :-)
I just got back (ok, a couple of hours ago) from the Hitchens v. Richards debate @ Stanford. I have to say that for a 'scientific' debate, Hitchens did much better than I expected. Also, while the moderator and host were both believers and the questions pulled for the broadcast Q&A session were from believers, the format was well suited to Hitchens and they let him run away with the time more than once. Hitchens was in fine form and seemed to be really enjoying himself (and sober! :-) Richards came off reasonably, seeming to me to be offering a "god of the gaps" style argument. He did much worse when he was asked by Hitchens if he believed in the Christian gobbly-gook like the virgin birth and resurrection and he said he did, without any reasonable explanation for how that could be possible given the laws of nature, just resorting to something along the lines of "if the laws are just based on the will of god, he can change his mind and impregnate virgins and raise people from the dead whenever he wants."
I was surprised (due to the venue) by the number of theist supporters in the audience, but given the organizers, there must have been some effort to turn out the crowd.
Anyway, well worth the two hour drive, each way, especially since my sister picked up lunch and I got Mr. Hitchens to sign my copy of God Is Not Great.
Posted by: MAJeff | January 28, 2008 1:47 AM
Robert,
Richards? Wasn't it supposed to be D'Souza, or am I completely confused?
Posted by: MAJeff | January 28, 2008 1:49 AM
oops...my bad...i was completely confused.
will it be on youtube?
Posted by: 5ive | January 28, 2008 2:09 AM
I have an even more miraculous potato!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/skeletaldropkick/sets/72157603810151411/
You can see his noodly appendages for yourself!
Posted by: Brownian, OM | January 28, 2008 2:26 AM
You can see his noodly appendages for yourself!
Uh, that looks a lot more like the Invisible Pink Unicorn to me.
Posted by: allonym | January 28, 2008 5:46 AM
you're both way off—that's clearly a potato cthulhu!
Posted by: holbach | January 28, 2008 6:48 AM
This spud's for you! Rutabaga, turnip or any of the other
inconsequential tubers, these morons can find religious
meaning in anything but excrement. Phony shits!
Posted by: Bride of Shrek | January 28, 2008 7:08 AM
My brother got me a Darth Tater for the 25th of December ( probably in response to my getting him a pair of Spidey Web shooting gloves- sadly we're 38 and 35- the childhood never stops).
http://www.onlinetoys.com.au/Mr-Potato-Head-Darth-Tater-pr-16594.html
Without doubt it shits all over Jesus Tater for entertainment value( and mine makes no commentary whatsoever on what salads I choose to prepare).
Posted by: Peter McGrath | January 28, 2008 8:55 AM
Stop it, you'll give him a chip on his shoulder.
Posted by: Monado in Coral Springs | January 28, 2008 9:38 AM
You'd think that holy persons appearing in potatoes would tend to be Buddha-shaped.
Posted by: Scrofulum | January 28, 2008 9:57 AM
Mmmmm - Buddha, aaaaaaah.
Posted by: Robert Thille | January 28, 2008 10:56 AM
MAJeff, not sure if it'll make it to YouTube or not, but it it was broadcast live on "CCN" (Church Communication Network) http://www.ccn.tv/programming/event/evt_27jan08.htm
Posted by: Laser Potato | January 28, 2008 12:10 PM
I may be a potato, but holy I ain't.
Posted by: MikeM | January 28, 2008 1:19 PM
It's a whole new method of Transubstantiation.
Posted by: Janicot | January 28, 2008 6:23 PM
Joke I saw attributed to Readers' Digest:
Posted by: jpf | February 5, 2008 8:34 AM
The story I linked to above (#28) turns out not to be true. The person caught in the sex scandal had nothing to do with the family-friendly video company. It was someone who was misusing their name. Unfortunately the incorrect story was widely disseminated and the company, CleanFlicks, has gotten a lot of unfair negative publicity. Here is their website that sets the record straight:
http://www.freecleanflicks.com/
I apologize to CleanFlicks for helping to spread this story.