…and this is a 
Let's just go back to arranged marriages
Category: Humor • Religion • Reproduction
Posted on: January 9, 2008 8:45 AM, by PZ Myers
This is probably a serious site. Probably. It could be satire, but the line between satire and Christianity is razor thin. Read Christian dating tips, and judge for yourself.
First rule of Christian dating: it's pretty much like going to church. Boring, chaste, and offering nothing but faint hopes. No intimacy is allowed, not even a kiss.
Choose to not kiss - At least until you are engaged to be married. Okay, this can be extremely difficult, but if you can follow this one dating tip then most of the others will happen naturally. Even kissing once you are engaged can be very dangerous. It's better to not kiss at all until your wedding day! Before you laugh and click to another page with thoughts that we must be insane, consider these points on kissing.
There are only two other dating tips: go on group dates, and treat each other with respect. The last one is fine (although their advice there is to ask yourself "what would Jesus do?", which is simply another lust-killer.) Basically, they're saying the way to court someone for a sexual relationship is to avoid all physical contact with the person.
That wedding day is going to be some fun, isn't it? They won't know how to kiss, they won't know how to have sex, and they're going to expect paradise when all they're going to get is clumsy fumbling and awkward embarrassment.
But why, you might ask, should Christians avoid kissing?
A kiss begins to sexually stimulate a man instantly.
Well, yes. That's the point, and it's a good thing. Notice the subtle bias, though: women are passive, there's no consideration about whether maybe she could also be sexually aroused. Maybe that's saying something about Christian men.
If you aren't kissing then you won't become tempted to take things to a more intimate level. You'll be protecting yourself and the purity of your date.
Protecting yourself from intimacy … how revealing. But it gets funnier:
If a Christian man is kissing his date and it gives him an erection (often just the possibility of a kiss can do this), is God or his date being honored?
God cares about the vasocongestive state of your pelvic floor! I don't recall anything in the Bible that says anything about god's preferences for your subtle physiological condition.
As for the date…yeah, baby, you're being honored.
Is this healthy for the man to get sexually aroused time after time without sexual release? When men become sexually aroused a large amount of blood flows to the genitals. If ejaculation does not occur; the build up of blood can become painful. That just can't be a good thing for anyone! Ouch! :O)
Come on, blue balls? That's the oldest excuse in the book. Yes, arousal can be painful if there is no release, but it does no harm. This is usually used as an excuse for release, not a rationalization for fearing even to begin to find some sexual interest in your partner.
A kiss will surely break down your barriers and leave you in a position that could ultimately devastate your relationship with your date and separate you from a close walk with God. Self-control seems to be the better option.
What's wrong with breaking down barriers between two people? Isn't that the whole point of dating? And if a mere kiss will devastate a relationship and alienate you from god, what about all that sex after the wedding day? If god gets pissed off at skin contact between two people, what magic happens at a wedding ceremony to suddenly change his opinion? He's a fickle weirdo, that god.
Just think how magical that first kiss will be if it is saved for your wedding day!
If that's true, think how magical it would be to kiss someone every day!
Look, it's very simple: intimacy, kissing, and sex are either fun and rewarding and important element of a relationship, or they aren't. It doesn't change because some sanctimonious old gomer in funny clothes flips a switch on your wedding day. The choice to pursue a physical relationship is a choice to be made by two people, and insisting that the mediation of a third (especially if it's some celibate geezer, or ignorant virgin like the author of that Christian dating article) does not help — it's just creepy.
Comments
I wonder how this praying together is supposed to work if a christian goes on a date with ...say a budhist, or a muslim, or darwin forbid, an atheist. That might be just a touch awkward. These christians are a bunch of sad, sexually repressed, pathetic individuals.
Posted by: makita | January 9, 2008 8:58 AM
First rule of Christian dating: it's pretty much like going to church. Boring, chaste, and offering nothing but faint hopes.
Church is less fun since the priests stopped playing "hide the crozier" with the flock, huh?
Posted by: Marcus Ranum | January 9, 2008 8:59 AM
This made me laugh out loud.
Posted by: Wes | January 9, 2008 8:59 AM
This instantly reminded me of this old Onion article.
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39100
Posted by: kneelingyak | January 9, 2008 9:00 AM
That's par for the course with Christians, and with abstinence-only education. Women never want sex - it's all the man being pushy, begging or pressuring her, and she does it because she goes along with it for purely emotional reasons. Naturally women don't enjoy sex, you pervert.
Anyway, this comment will probably be marked as spam since I'm including a link, but I just have to throw this in:
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39100
Posted by: Stephen | January 9, 2008 9:00 AM
From the article: You can never go wrong with prayer.
Well, unless it prevents you from doing something that might actually help.
Posted by: gravitybear | January 9, 2008 9:02 AM
Looks like a 'genuine' site to me. But like so many things these days, so absurd as to be difficult to distinguish from satire.
Posted by: V Profane | January 9, 2008 9:03 AM
Kudos to the author! He has convinced me to hold back praying to God until the very instant before my death.
Think how magical that first prayer will be!
Posted by: Gingerbaker | January 9, 2008 9:04 AM
What would Jesus do? I think it involves getting her to annoint you with oils and wash your feet, but I'm not sure which comes first.
Posted by: Moggie | January 9, 2008 9:04 AM
Dammit, beaten by less than a minute on the Onion article.
Posted by: Stephen | January 9, 2008 9:08 AM
"yeah, baby, you're being honored."
This message brought to you by Big Pimp PZ!
Posted by: DaveX | January 9, 2008 9:11 AM
Kissing, hell! I want to know what they're planning on doing about this disgusting habit of shaking of hands when a couple first meets. It's the devil's grip, I tells ya. One quick pump and you're headed down that slippery slope to hell.
Come on, kids, keep a minimum of 2 arm's length apart UNTIL you're married. Think how good that first handshake will be on your wedding night.
Its what Jesus would do.
Posted by: Larry | January 9, 2008 9:11 AM
Growing up Catholic, no one prepared me for wanting to do all those nasty things. I assumed there must be something wrong with me. Girls were supposed to be the brakes stopping the boys' passion.
Posted by: Lana | January 9, 2008 9:13 AM
The First Silliest Notion Ever Devised: That the act of copulation is somehow "wrong," without the imprimatur of some Deity or other.
Are these people trying to raise ANOTHER generation of sexual neurotics?
Posted by: The Wanderer | January 9, 2008 9:14 AM
Forget about whether jebus cares what you do with your tongue. This is a way to encourage young people to marry in the church. Likewise, don't teach kids about condoms and they are likely to get knocked up and be forced to 'do the honorable thing.'
Coming from rural Kansas, I knew more than one couple who got married very young so god wouldn't cry when they did the nasty. This of course doesn't lead to the happiest or most psychologically stable marriages (witness divorce rates among fundies), but it does make a lot of little Christian babies.
Similarly, but more fun, the Amish tradition of Rumpspringa, which looks like an Amish anomaly of permissiveness subtly encourages kids to stay in the church. They are thrown into the 'English' world at 16 with no education on sex and told they can do whatever they want. Naturally lots of them end up in a family way and have to return to the church community where they have a support network.
Posted by: dcwp | January 9, 2008 9:17 AM
HA! Two dating tips are "pray" and "pray in groups". That is hilarious. You have to be kidding me.
Posted by: Travis Morgan | January 9, 2008 9:20 AM
What's the point of brushing you're teeth if you're not going to kiss?
Or cleaning your vehicle if you're not going to use the back seat?
Posted by: CalGeorge | January 9, 2008 9:22 AM
I take offence when I kiss a guy and he *doesn't* get an erection. It is a matter of personal pride, you see.
I noticed the article also mentioned that even praying together was dangerous as it leads to intimacy. Hey, I would have been more religious if I'd have known that prayer=sex! Dammit.
Posted by: maxi | January 9, 2008 9:22 AM
"I certainly hope the Lord will now bless us with a child after this wonderful night," Linda said. "If not, we may be forced to repeat this beautiful experience."
Classic.
Posted by: MacDhai | January 9, 2008 9:23 AM
Wanderer @ #14 said:
"Are these people trying to raise ANOTHER generation of sexual neurotics?"
This is a feature, not a bug.
Also, wanted to point out dcwp's excellent, if subtle, pun:
"witness divorce rates among fundies"
Was that intentional? If so, well done :)
Posted by: ethyl | January 9, 2008 9:29 AM
Dammit, Gingerbaker! You made me spew coffee all over my new laptop. :-(
Posted by: maditude | January 9, 2008 9:30 AM
LOL, I read this as "goon group dates".
Posted by: True Bob | January 9, 2008 9:36 AM
I used to work with a guy that was so devoutly religious (need you ask who he voted for?) that he did exactly as these tips suggest, and didn't kiss his wife until their wedding day. I'm guessing he's one of about a thousand human beings that ever did things this way. Of course, there's always the possibility he was keeping up appearances...
Posted by: BlueIndependent | January 9, 2008 9:37 AM
This isn't new. I know several people who didn't kiss before marriage or whose kids aren't kissing. In college I went on one date with a Seventh Day Adventist chick who wouldn't hold hands before marriage. One date.
Posted by: Adam | January 9, 2008 9:37 AM
Hey, if there is too much buildup due to all that arousal, there are always wet dreams for release. I mean, God gave them to boys for a reason, right?
When I was in college, I did a summer research stint with a group of others. My roommate, part of the program, was a fundy whack-job from a bible school in Oklahoma. I mean really whacked - he made no pretense. For example, for him, evolution/creation was not about science, but about religion. He would never support ID, even, because all that mattered was God's word of the bible (and evolution was "The Big Lie" that Paul (maybe John in the Apocalypse) predicted would be foisted upon mankind by Satan. Totally whacked. However, he was also engaged. Sort of scary, I thought.
OK, so they guy kept a journal. Wondering what seedy ideas were lurking behind the veil, I, of course, had to read it when he was out :) Sorry, nothing seedy, just lots of "I had a good talk with God today." But I did read about when he got engaged. He was pretty excited, but related the story. I don't remember all the details, but it was something like, "I asked her to marry me, and she said yes. Then I asked if I could kiss her, and she said yes. So I kissed her...for the first time."
Hey, _I_ thought it was funny. So did all the other folks that were in our group that I told.
OK, I'm not real proud that I read his journal, but then again, I don't feel too guilty about it. The guy was a putz.
I have talked to the folks who ran the program, and they said they never realized he was such a fundy whacko. Had they done so, they of course never would have accepted him in a scientific research program. He had no future in science.
Just to make this longer, another great incident. As part of our program, we had weekly seminars from scientists in the department. One guy gave a talk about evolution, and, in particular, how evolution is a manifestation of the 2nd law, being a manner for distributing energy throughout the system. Of course, that didn't go over well. So this fundy guy writes him a letter telling him that he is going to hell, etc. The guy write back and rips the kid a new one, albeit eloquently, basically saying, "We're scientists, and we go where the evidence leads." Major smack down. If it were me, I would have just laughed at him (we did that a lot, anyway).
Posted by: Pablo | January 9, 2008 9:38 AM
I wouldn't ask what Jesus would do. Like most cult leaders, I suspect Jesus was in it for the chicks. Jesus would do it for sure.
Posted by: Ric | January 9, 2008 9:40 AM
I have posted this remembrance on a few blogs. January 9th is the 100th anniversary of Simone de Beauvoir.
For the newer generations, she wrote probably the first contemporary feminist manifesto, "The Second Sex", way back in 1949.
I doubt that many jesus freaks have read it. If they would, they would be less clueless.
Posted by: bernarda | January 9, 2008 9:46 AM
Marcus @2:
Church is less fun since the priests stopped playing "hide the crozier"
They've stopped?
Posted by: Mrs Tilton | January 9, 2008 9:46 AM
"you can pound my tom tom"
http://www.adultswim.com/video/index.html
Posted by: True Bob | January 9, 2008 9:47 AM
" for your subtle physiological condition."
Hey, you don't have to rub it in that it's a subtle condition. I tried the pumps, they didn't work...
Posted by: CrypticLife | January 9, 2008 9:47 AM
sorry, I am such a spas.
http://www.adultswim.com/video/?episodeID=8a25c39215fa78a40115fc742fe0017c
Posted by: True Bob | January 9, 2008 9:48 AM
Posted by: SEF | January 9, 2008 9:49 AM
And what would DJ Jesus do? Here's the answer:
http://www.adultswim.com/video/?episodeID=8a25c39215d7c8da0115d85ef0db0124
Posted by: True Bob | January 9, 2008 9:51 AM
If you doubt that this site is real, then check the Christian Joke of the Day. Ugh... totally devoid of humor. This is no parody.
Posted by: schmeer | January 9, 2008 9:54 AM
Blue balls? Good one. The UK version is Lover's balls. Big gregs in northern vernacular.
Oh to be able to hack that site and do a little creative editing.
Posted by: Peter McGrath | January 9, 2008 10:01 AM
When you pray with someone of the opposite sex that you care about you begin to build a level of intimacy that can often lead to trouble.
Priceless ... just priceless.
There's another line that has promise ...
Include another couple
Posted by: Kampar | January 9, 2008 10:04 AM
Remember, even Jesus got nailed three times without being married!
Posted by: mokele | January 9, 2008 10:07 AM
Re comment 1 - no dating outside the church. It's a rule - "be ye not unequally yoked together" In a really open church, they may mean "don't date someone who's not Christian," but in many denominations they are even more restrictive and mean you shouldn't date someone who is a different flavor of Christianity - after all, the other person might want to bring up the kids in that other religion, which'll doom them to h*ll.
Re comment 24 - Heh! I was Seventh Day Adventist, and got dumped-not-that-we-were-dating by a Mormon guy who freaked out after the fact about us holding hands while walking somewhere. He started avoiding me, so I went to hunt him down to tell him he really didn't have to hide - he said he was afraid of where the whole hand-holding thing might lead . . . .
But I once had an SDA pastor who felt that it was appropriate to tell 5th and 6th graders (in a religion class) that he and his wife always prayed for guidance before having sex. Even in 5th grade, my immediate reaction was "you *still* haven't figured out how to do it?" (By the way, just to up the ick factor, his daughter was in that class.)
Posted by: jenl1625 | January 9, 2008 10:08 AM
I don't know how many of you grew up free of religion madness but in my case I am frequently reminded how deeply I regret all those years gone, feeling ashamed, asking for forgiveness to a god and repressing myself just for a damn delusion.
I grew up as a christian, pastors in my family, etc. That text isn't really that surprising for me, never read something like that but it is frequently said, directly or indirectly.
One of the things that amazes me is how really, really deeply the indoctrination goes into our brain. I am 36 and now for several years an atheist not because anyone 'preached' me about it but just as result of a natural process of thinking. Well, sometimes even now for example, I have to fight with myself about thoughts of self humiliation, feeling bad if pride surfaces, etc.
It takes effort to get freedom back, that is one of the reasons I am really concern about children receiving the religions dogmas. That is exactly why I liked The Golden Compass, not because of its qualities as a film but as a starting point, a starting point for asking about organizations telling other people what to think, how to act, etc.
The movie worked for my daughter (5), she began asking me about the Magisterium, and that allows a conversation where they can learn, where they can, by themselves build their own intellectual weapons to overcome the religion impositions and 'brain washing', which at least in our continent a vast majority will suffer.
(Sorry for any English error, not my language)
Posted by: and | January 9, 2008 10:10 AM
Damn, that whole site is just one big FSTDT wet dream.
Check out the parenting tips, over 1/2 of them involve counseling your child (including teens) on how to avoid interacting with members of the opposite sex in anything other than a completely platonic way.
Posted by: kampar | January 9, 2008 10:12 AM
Damn...that site's a great source for...well, see for yourself:
http://www.christian-life-advisor.com/bibleman-video-game-adventure.html
Posted by: Der Bodenschatz | January 9, 2008 10:12 AM
It fits pretty well with what I'm familiar with, so if it's satire it's so close to the edge it's pretty much over it.
I also had a friend who didn't kiss his girlfriend until the wedding day, and they dated for a couple of years before they got married. In fact, he had never kissed anyone before. The look on his face after the fact was priceless.
Posted by: Carlie | January 9, 2008 10:15 AM
Back when I was in high school, my fundie aunt gave us a subscription to "The Sword of the Lord", a charming little fire and brimstone newspaper. I'd read it just to see what these folks had to say.
They had one whole issue on dating. No kissing, no hand holding, no dancing. Even roller skating was iffy because it was so much like dancing. Their dating solution -- go to the mall and witness for god.
Posted by: Marie | January 9, 2008 10:16 AM
dcwp @15,
I'm no expert on these things, but I think Rumspringa of the sort you describe -- sending Amish adolescents out into "the world" to experience a bit of the ungodly life before they commit themselves to horse-drawn buggies -- is something of an urban (or perhaps rural) legend. My impression is that, for most of the Amish, it's a much simpler matter of just not taking youthful "transgressions" very seriously, on the grounds that teenagers will be teeenagers and only a fool would think he could successfully rein them in. (If true, that's a surprisingly humane attitude for an otherwise extraordinarily conservative sect.)
Posted by: Mrs Tilton | January 9, 2008 10:17 AM
Bwahaha...
What we're suggesting is that you don't pray together alone as a couple too early in your relationship. Prayer is so very important in any relationship so please don't misunderstand this point. When you pray with someone of the opposite sex that you care about you begin to build a level of intimacy that can often lead to trouble.
Yeah, because you might make prayer-babies. And we all know where that leads!
I've just thought of a slogan (with apologies to Madalyn Murray-O'Hair): "Prayer is the new petting!"
Not that the women enjoy that at all:
A kiss begins to sexually stimulate a man instantly... If a Christian man is kissing his date and it gives him an erection (often just the possibility of a kiss can do this), is God or his date being honored?... Is this healthy for the man to get sexually aroused time after time without sexual release?
Just like Islam--no thought of the woman's enjoyment.
Posted by: Kristine | January 9, 2008 10:20 AM
Hilarious!
Posted by: Teenage Lobotomy | January 9, 2008 10:24 AM
I wholly support this no-kissing-before-marriage mentality, thanks to a confession of sorts from one of my friends from high-school after she'd gotten married. She had been raised in church, and taught that kissing before being engaged or engaging in intercourse before marriage was bad. She simply took the non-forbidden path of performing blow-jobs on her boyfriends (one of which I, sadly, was not). Anything that causes this behavior is a sentiment I endorse.
Posted by: Randy | January 9, 2008 10:27 AM
"Include another couple - You will find that physical issues are much less distracting if you plan most of your ... situations to include other couples. ...."
Did anyone read this the way I did?
I am so going to hell....
Posted by: Geoffrey Alexander | January 9, 2008 10:29 AM
and @39
I grew up in an atheistic house and have memories of my mum telling me two things, "There's nothing like a good f**k." At the time I thought she was talking about cursing, as I got older I saw the other meaning of that statement. The other thing she used to say was, "How do you know the man is any good unless you try him out first?". I was completely grossed out by this (as 14yo's often are by their parents) but now see the wisdom of her words!
Naturally our godless household was full of... erm... love, discipline and parents who are deeply devoted to one another. Such a bad example for the kids.
Posted by: maxi | January 9, 2008 10:29 AM
WWJD? Mary Magdalene. Duh.
I had a preacher friend (back when I was not godless) who confided to me that he and his wife always had awesome sex (his wording) after prayer. That do not pray together without others makes good sense if you are trying to avoid having sex.
Posted by: complex_field | January 9, 2008 10:30 AM
Just the POSSIBILITY of a kiss can lead to an erection INSTANTLY? Ah, to be young again!
Posted by: fardels bear | January 9, 2008 10:35 AM
maxi @ 49,
reminds me of the granddad from Little Miss Sunshine. Sound advice.
Posted by: True Bob | January 9, 2008 10:36 AM
I looked uncannily like Little Miss Sunshine too. My best friend watched the film and thought of me instantly. Pudgy, over-sized glasses, plaits... Thank you puberty!
Posted by: maxi | January 9, 2008 10:44 AM
Who
Would
Jesus
Do
Posted by: Hypatia | January 9, 2008 10:47 AM
but could you dance?
Posted by: True Bob | January 9, 2008 10:47 AM
True Bob: If you've ever had the pleasure of watching a child's dance recital you will know there is always a chubby, tutu-clad child. That was me. Alas my mother is passionately against beauty pageants so I never got to test out my skills!
Posted by: maxi | January 9, 2008 10:59 AM
I've also heard these arguments presented in context where they were most certainly not intended as a joke, and where these claims would actually be considered a bit liberal. I attended a small religious school for my undergraduate education, and I remember a class in which the psychology professor, describing the evils of temptation, discussed how holding hands with his wife could give him an erection. Fortunately that wasn't on the test.
I remember seeing a study a few years ago (maybe this one: http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html ) which discussed the inverse relationship between religiosity and teen pregnancy. One problem I think is that to Christian teens, using any kind of birth control is equivalent to "planning to sin." (For those who weren't raised Christian, I should clarify that this is a Bad Thing.) Pair that with the fact that two mutually attracted teens, left alone, will sooner or later remove their clothing, and the result follows like clockwork.
Posted by: Billy | January 9, 2008 11:01 AM
Dating? How quaint.
Posted by: MAJeff | January 9, 2008 11:01 AM
Yes, arousal can be painful if there is no release, but it does no harm. This is usually used as an excuse for release,
When I was a youngster and not yet ready to, er, provide my date with release or obtain same from him, we would occasionally say to each other, "Excuse me, got to go to the bathroom" and obtain release without risking pregnancy or taking things somewhere neither of us was comfortable with yet. What's wrong with these Christian types that they can't do the same? Do Christians not believe in indoor plumbing or something?
Posted by: Dianne | January 9, 2008 11:07 AM
LOL! For some reason I'm just reminded of the old joke: "Can we have sex in bed?",
"Certainly",
"In the kitchen?",
"Of course - it is blessed by the Lord"",
"Standing up?",
"Absolutely not!",
"Why!!",
"It might lead to dancing."
Posted by: Armchair Dissident | January 9, 2008 11:09 AM
45: Islam has, in fact, a requirement that men consider the pleasure of their wives; the fact that individuals do not always follow that dictat is another thing entirely.
Three things are counted as inadequacies in a man. Firstly, meeting someone he would like to get to know, and taking leave of him before learning his name and his family. Secondly, rebuffing the generosity that another shows to him. And thirdly, going to his wife and having intercourse with her before talking to her and gaining her intimacy, satisfying his need from her before she has satisfied her need from him. (Daylami)
Don't mistake the practices for the tenets. Fundies of any sort tend to phenomenally repressed.
I've no doubt whatsoever that this isn't a satire - try reading some of the fundie sites, especially those of the home-schooling sort. You'd think Satan was on every street corner trying to get the young to - dare I say it? - kiss!
I remember when the sister of a friend of mine got pregnant at 12, much to her confusion - she had been told that kissing caused babies and she'd never kissed the guy...
Posted by: DominEditrix | January 9, 2008 11:12 AM
Is it bad that my mind went some where totaly unholy when they said go on group "dates"?
Posted by: Beardedbeard | January 9, 2008 11:13 AM
@Hypatia #54:
Your comment gives a whole new meaning to "What Would Jesus Do." Apple Pie? The neighbor's goat? A hole in the wall? Oh, yeah..the possibilities are endless.
Posted by: Shawn Smith | January 9, 2008 11:19 AM
"What would Jesus do"?
Tell the guy to sleep with her. Then when the guys make the girl pregnant. When she has the baby kill the baby in punishment for breaking God's law by doing what God told him to do. That Biblical reasoning.
http://www.thebricktestament.com/king_david/god_kills_70000_israelites/2s24_01p1ch21_01.html
Posted by: Bob L | January 9, 2008 11:20 AM
Hell, the hole in his hands might add some interesting possibilities.
Posted by: MAJeff | January 9, 2008 11:20 AM
I actually think they've got good points, but they don't go far enough - we should also tell people about the evils of kissing or (gasp!) sex after marriage. That depravity has to stop! :)
Posted by: Muffin | January 9, 2008 11:25 AM
I find it very hard to take seriously any Christian dating tips that don't describe the use of dental dams in rimming. That's just good sense.
Posted by: Greg Peterson | January 9, 2008 11:25 AM
Mrs Tilton @44 wrote: "...but I think Rumspringa of the sort you describe[...] is something of an urban (or perhaps rural) legend."
It's real. Check out the 2002 documentary "Devil's Playground." Good writeup about this on NPR's website.
Posted by: Bureaucratus Minimis | January 9, 2008 11:28 AM
Because it would be enjoyable.
Posted by: Tulse | January 9, 2008 11:35 AM
According to Reverend Lovejoy, Christians are, technically speaking, not allowed to use toilets.
Posted by: Stanton | January 9, 2008 11:37 AM
I stopped reading at tip #4 -- "Wear deodorant"
Posted by: Eric | January 9, 2008 11:39 AM
apparently dating is training for learning how to beg.
oh wait christians already know how to do that. beg for forgiveness for being born, beg for forgiveness for not being perfect, the next step is to learn how to beg for sex.
Posted by: qedpro | January 9, 2008 11:39 AM
Q. Why do girls like Jesus so much?
A. *spreads out arms* He was hung like this!
*ba-dum-CHING!*
Posted by: Karley | January 9, 2008 11:39 AM
Ha! Now that I've actually gotten around to reading it - I notice that it doesn't appear to explicitly condemn sex. I can only presume, then, that it is perfectly permissible to have sex - even in groups, the more the merrier - so long as there's no kissing, and you remember to pray first, and you don't pray together.
(Ironically, I also noticed one of their Google-Ads was "Dating after Divorce". Guess Google knows they're setting their kids up for a fall, too.)
Posted by: Armchair Dissident | January 9, 2008 11:41 AM
"what would Jesus do"
Umm.. Hang out with hookers?
-jcr
Posted by: John C. Randolph | January 9, 2008 11:42 AM
On Rumspringa, there is some independent confirmation on its reality:
Amish Outlaws
Posted by: CrypticLife | January 9, 2008 11:45 AM
advice there is to ask yourself "what would Jesus do?
We don't have to ask ourselves, we know what Jesus is reported to have done. He hung around with a bunch of men and maybe a female prostitute or two.
/sarcasm
Posted by: raj | January 9, 2008 11:46 AM
How do people stay sane after such a bizarre upbringing? Or do they?
A lot of the kids must just ignore it. The teen pregnancy rate in fundie states is noticeably above the national average.
Posted by: raven | January 9, 2008 11:48 AM
I attended a small religious school for my undergraduate education, and I remember a class in which the psychology professor, describing the evils of temptation, discussed how holding hands with his wife could give him an erection.
This illustrates why it's so absurd to think that you can protect people from "temptation" by avoiding things that trigger arousal. The sexual drive doesn't go away, so you merely end up changing what it takes to trigger it.
p.s. Is it weird that I find this whole discussion kind of erotic? Sheesh, being raised on that religious repression crap has sure given me some bizarre fetishes....
Posted by: C. L. Hanson | January 9, 2008 11:51 AM
Sheesh, being raised on that religious repression crap has sure given me some bizarre fetishes....
And the rest of us are quite envious of you for it. If there's one good thing about repression, it's that it makes one more sensitive.
I suspect it also helps with art. Basically, you can't break rules like the second law of thermodynamics in art, so its best to have someone else making up arbitrary rules for you to break to show creativity.
Posted by: CrypticLife | January 9, 2008 11:57 AM
I'M SHOCKED AND OFFENDED!!!
When I went on the xtian site, I was very surprised to see a sponsored ad for a UK dating service (probably country-targetted advertising from an ad agency). The graphic for the ad shows a semi-naked woman laying against the chest of her male lover. On clicking the ad it takes me to the dating site - the main graphic showing (not surprisingly) two people kissing.
I'll bet they have no idea that UK readers are being served this ad. LOL!!
Posted by: Tom | January 9, 2008 12:01 PM
Why is the Christian God such a complete fuckup. I mean, if you buy their bullshit, he created us, but with a nature completely opposite to what he wants. He created us with desires opposite what our actions should be? Is God a retard or a fucking asshole?
Posted by: Robert Thille | January 9, 2008 12:22 PM
"How do people stay sane after such a bizarre upbringing? Or do they?"
They cope, but often in strange ways. I attended a well-known Christian college that had strict rules governing dating. The dean of students had some very specific suggestions at freshman orientation concerning how to deal with sexual desires: (1) sublimate them through exercise, (2) if need be, masturbate! But in the end, some students did what came naturally, and it did involve more than handholding and kissing.
However the testosterone-addled brain of the 18-20 year male could lead to some bizarre behavior. Guys exercising in the nude in the floor lounge, a group "underwear tear," --all of which seemed a little odd given the likelihood that the majority had a strong heterosexual orientation (and there were gay students on campus, not that the institution knew it). I also think it contributed to other weird non-sexual behavior like mixing AND heating cleaning chemicals in the floor kitchenette--nearly requiring the evacuation of the building due to toxic fumes. Or they could act like turbo-charged bowerbirds when there was an open house when women could visit (chaperoned by RAs) the men's dorm--I saw construction projects rivaling the Rose Bowl floats!
In the end, there was probably no lasting damage. I know a lot of decent people who have been happily married for years--and some of them have been divorced and remarried just like everyone else. Humans are adaptable in that they can find ways to be cope and even be happy (think, e.g., about arranged marriages) in the face of cultural dictates.
Posted by: jeh | January 9, 2008 12:30 PM
There once was a sweet sixteen fundi
Who'd go on group dates every Sunday,
But like a big dope
She gave in to the grope
And prayed she weren't pregnant each Monday.
Posted by: Todd | January 9, 2008 12:33 PM
Just the POSSIBILITY of a kiss can lead to an erection INSTANTLY?
Hell, at that age I think the only requirement is a strong breeze.
These people are, in fact, insane.
Posted by: Graculus | January 9, 2008 12:33 PM
They also say, a bit further down the page that "it is great to be married to your best friend". I'm going to call Steve right now and propose. I wonder if it'll matter that we both have penises.
Incidentally, some of their dating tips (dress nicely, comb your hair, brush your teeth...) are things that some people really need to consider.
Posted by: Daniel | January 9, 2008 12:38 PM
"If a Christian man is kissing his date and it gives him an erection (often just the possibility of a kiss can do this), is God or his date being honored?"
Haven't these folks ever heard of the "Gallant reflex"?
Most women I know consider an erection to be the highest compliment a man can offer.
Seriously, if we can just get these fundies to admit that sex is dirty ANYTIME, including after marriage, we can be rid of them in just a few short years. IIRC, there was a radical ofshoot of the Quakers, known as the Shakers. These folks believed in ONLY immacualte conception, and that sex was inherently sinful.
Haven't seen any Shakers lately, have you??
Posted by: Sergeant Zim | January 9, 2008 12:39 PM
It's not supposed to work. A Christian thinking of dating a non-Christian might as well just ask God for a one-way ticket to Hell and be done with it. For that matter, I suspect that for the type of Christian this advice is addressed to, dating a Catholic is out of bounds.
Posted by: noncarborundum | January 9, 2008 12:39 PM
ugg... these people make my teeth hurt. They just have to suck EVERY LAST BIT of joy out of life to feel worth something don't they.
Posted by: E in MD | January 9, 2008 12:45 PM