…and this is a 
Yeah, that'll work
Category: Religion • Stupidity
Posted on: January 7, 2008 4:11 AM, by PZ Myers
So the Catholic church has a problem with pedophilia. In a rational world, there's a range of options available: stop protecting priests who abuse their position, threaten convicted child-abusing priests with expulsion and excommunication, even revisit this peculiar custom of demanding celibacy for the priesthood. Alas, the Pope has his own very special solution.
Pope Benedict XVI has instructed Roman Catholics to pray "in perpetuity" to cleanse the Church of paedophile clergy. All dioceses, parishes, monasteries, convents and seminaries will be expected to organise continuous daily prayers to express penitence and to purify the clergy.
Pray harder! Exercise a completely ineffective technique more strenuously!
I do wonder how the Pope imagines god will "cleanse" the church. Just tweaking the brains of priests so they don't feel lust anymore would be a violation of free will and make a mess of centuries of theology, while having god get all Old Testament on the church and smite priests all around the world with lightning bolts would be spectacular and effective, but probably very bad PR.
Politics
Comments
Maybe Ratzi could do something to show that people who protect child rapists won't be supported and promoted by turning over Cardinal Law to the criminal authorities here in Massachusetts.
Posted by: MAJeff | January 7, 2008 4:27 AM
Classic - the Catholic laity have no say in how their spiritual leaders are selected, but the pope wants them to express penance for the actions of those leaders.
Posted by: ndt | January 7, 2008 4:34 AM
I'm reminded of a classic R. A. H. comment.
"If you pray hard enough, you can make water run uphill!"
"How hard must I pray?"
"Hard enough to make water run uphill, of course!"
Posted by: G. Tingey | January 7, 2008 4:41 AM
Whenever I am told about the wonderful forgiveness that religious people show - the usual example given is the Amish community who publicly forgave the (deceased) killer who shot dead a number of school children - I always counter with the forgiveness of the Catholic church towards pedophilic priests.
It works best if you say it with a straight face and act like you are agreeing with them.
Posted by: Sigmund | January 7, 2008 4:45 AM
This is remarkably offensive to those who have suffered at the hands of Catholic priests. Has this man no shame?
Posted by: Australian Atheist | January 7, 2008 4:52 AM
"This is remarkably offensive to those who have suffered at the hands of Catholic priests. Has this man no shame?"
Well it is not like Joe the Rat had Cardinal Law working to help with the ceremonies of ordaining him, or Popifying him, or whatever you call it again,,,
What's that?
He did?
Cardinal Law was actually in the ceremony itself? Even after covering up for all those child molesters?
Sorry,...my bad
Posted by: lago | January 7, 2008 4:58 AM
Oh yeah..
Who are they praying to again? God, right? If God interferes with our lives, why didn't he already prevent these Priests from molesting these children?
Free Will you say? You mean God allows one to take away the free will of others as part of granting free will? Seems a bit convoluted now doesn't it?
But wait, God will act only if you ask him to act? So God does not control the world? Prayer does?
Oh I get it, God's will allows for, well.. what he allows, but does not allow for other things he does not? So, if he was going to do it anyway, he allows you to pray for it, even though it was already his will?
But isn't God the Alpha and Omega? So doesn't he already know what is going to happen? So, how do our prays change anything if he already knew what our prays were to be? Didn't he know that we would pray to stop these actions from occurring if we had known about them before time? Does this mean God does not care what we want, but only responds to the physical action of prayer?
The more I think about prayer, the more I think it is an amazingly example of primitive thought...
Posted by: Lago | January 7, 2008 5:12 AM
Lago, please address the Holy Father properly! His correct mob name is not 'Joe the Rat', it's 'Joey Rats'. Much more Sopranos-worthy, don't you agree?
Posted by: Bob Loblaw | January 7, 2008 5:24 AM
I wonder if they are going to publish a time line for eradicating the problem. In fact they should divvy up the priests into the "prayed for" and have a control, un-prayed-for set and measure the effectiveness of said prayers.
When I used to move in more "godly" circles, "I will pray about it" in response to a call for action was code for fuck off.
Posted by: grinch | January 7, 2008 5:24 AM
God is really appalled and we are gonna pray just to be sure.
Posted by: grinch | January 7, 2008 5:44 AM
Oh no! What a great, um, loss.
Posted by: C.W | January 7, 2008 5:50 AM
I think the best mob name for the pope would be Joey Ratz
Posted by: Miykael Poly | January 7, 2008 5:52 AM
PZ wrote: "... [H]aving god get all Old Testament on the church and smite priests all around the world with lightning bolts would be spectacular and effective, but probably very bad PR."
I don't know... Atheist that I am, I would attend a church, and even contribute good money to see pedophile priests smitten by lightning. The entertainment value alone would beat a Benny Hinn spectacle.
Posted by: HalfMooner | January 7, 2008 5:53 AM
What you expect the Catholic Church to do something constructive on the topic of sex in a timeframe that results in a solution while any of us are still alive? When money and the already dwindling supply of priests are on the line?
I've seen studies that suggest as many as 70% of all new seminarians are approached in the seminar for sex, the problem is systemic and the Vatican knows it. While JP2 was claiming it was an American problem he'd quietly paid out $2 billion to cover it up in Europe.
Posted by: Venger | January 7, 2008 6:03 AM
The evangelist Mark is clear on Jesus' teaching: whatever causeth thee to sin, chop it off or pluck it out. Unless one causes a child to sin in which case you go swimming with a millstone necklace.
Up here a priest was caught with a carboot load of child porn. The bishop did the right thing and just turned him over to the police: he did time. He had previously been the diocesan youth chaplain.
Posted by: Peter McGrath | January 7, 2008 6:19 AM
I want to see smiting!
But really, I agree with grinch @8, this is just code for "Back the fork off and leave us to molest children in peace." I really don't understand how anyone, *anyone* could possibly accept this; no matter how blinded by religiosity.
-Headdesk-
Posted by: maxi | January 7, 2008 6:23 AM
I do wonder how the Pope imagines god will "cleanse" the church. Just tweaking the brains of priests so they don't feel lust anymore would be a violation of free will and make a mess of centuries of theology,
No not really because centuries of theologians surely must have taken into account the all the violations of free will found in the Bible.
And centuries of theologians have been praying for their God to interfere with the free will of other people. Surely they couldn't have missed that in their free will arguments.
while having god get all Old Testament on the church and smite priests all around the world with lightning bolts would be spectacular and effective, but probably very bad PR.
Yeah right God flooded the whole planet and that wasn't bad PR at all. Please do read up more on your theology. Thanks!!
Posted by: 386sx :P | January 7, 2008 6:33 AM
Pray harder stick harder.
Posted by: tsig | January 7, 2008 6:46 AM
Not even Christians really believe in the power of prayer. Ever hear a prayer to regrow a severed pinky? Is this task so difficult for the omniscient creator of the universe that it's not even worth asking for?
Posted by: charley | January 7, 2008 7:31 AM
I think this really could work.
Basically, the Pope is asking for priests to continuously pray, all the time, not to bugger kids. If the churches put the pedo priests on this perpetual prayer duty, they will be too busy to "lay hands" on the kids. Brilliant.
Idle hands are the pedo priests' work shop.
Posted by: Ryogam | January 7, 2008 7:35 AM
Not sure if you have heard about this case:
The Bishop of Tenerife says that there are children who incite sexual abuse, sorry it is in spanish:
http://www.elpais.com/articulo/sociedad/obispo/Tenerife/afirma/algunos/menores/incitan/abuso/sexual/elpepusoc/20071227elpepusoc_1/Tes
Posted by: Fernando | January 7, 2008 7:37 AM
Love this bit from the article:
"Cardinal Hummes said that the aim was to put a definitive stop to a scandal that had damaged the image of the Church and forced US archdioceses, including Boston and Los Angeles, to pay millions of dollars in compensation to the victims. He said that the scandal was exceptionally serious, although it was probably caused by "no more than 1 per cent" of the 400,000 Catholic priests around the world."
1% of 400,000? Ah well, that's only 4,000 child-absuing priests around the world.
Phew, I was getting worried for a moment there.
Posted by: maxi | January 7, 2008 7:47 AM
I don't know. Believe it or not, I can see this working. NO I'm not trying to troll.
Basically what Razi has said is, we are going to remind you daily you should not be doing this. If I was being told daily by the people I work with I couldn't do something, I would either make sure I was good enough to never be caught or I'd not do it. It's a very big brother like solution. If I'm reminded, then people are watching.
If it does work, they get to say see there is a god, he cleared our problem. If it doesn't work, they haven't lost anything yet, they just get to pass more silly rules about how to pray to their gods to make it work.
Posted by: chris rattis | January 7, 2008 7:50 AM
I wholeheartedly agree.
More smiting.... that or more ribs.
Either or.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | January 7, 2008 7:59 AM
Rev. BigBumbChimp, why have either or when we should be demanding BOTH?!
In other praying-related news, the BBC are reporting that the CoE has launched a campaign to help people out of debt: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7174585.stm
It includes a "post-Christmas "debt check", with ten points which act as warning signs that people may be spending more than they can afford." Of course it has a biblical angle so "as well as practical advice for getting a firmer grip on your finances, the campaign also features a selection of prayers, including one that calls "for a just and lasting solution" to the problem of international debt."
I love that last line, a just and lasting solution to the problem of international debt. Excuse me while I fall off my chair in a fit of giggles
Posted by: maxi | January 7, 2008 8:10 AM
#23
"Basically what Razi has said is, we are going to remind you daily you should not be doing this."
Ummhmmm. Well, people are reminded daily to do lots of things; stop at stop signs, eat their vegetables and exercise, don't invade foreign countries without just cause, and it doesn't seem to matter. Note that these things also don't go to such automatic desires such as who we want to have sex with. Doesn't seem to do much.
This is about divine intercession, not a "gosh, maybe we didn't make ourselves clear on this topic" sort of thing.
Posted by: Dahan | January 7, 2008 8:18 AM
"All the time our customers ask us, 'how do you make money (making exact change)?' The answer is simple: volume."
--- First Citywide Change Bank (one of the great SNL commercial sketches)
Posted by: Mr. Upright | January 7, 2008 8:27 AM
Of course the psychological pressure aspect of the pope's prayer idea will work best if everyone disobeys the Jesus injunction to pray in private and instead says the words out loud at (and along with) their priest, in daily religious meetings.
Posted by: SEF | January 7, 2008 8:32 AM
Dahan @26
Actually, we're not reminded daily. How often are you stopped by a cop and told, remember don't run stop signs? It used to be when one country invaded another, a larger coalition would attack the invader. As for veggies and exercise, no one is there to hold us accountable if we don't do it.
By having it drilled into your head daily (by the act of the prayer) will make them think that the pedro-police are watching. It might attune them more to look for the acts of the people that do, do it.
It is definitely a case of creating a fear based culture, but isn't that what religion is about to start with?
Posted by: chris rattis | January 7, 2008 8:41 AM
The logical thing would be to cut off the supply of victims. The Pope should issue an edict for all Roman Catholic churches and other facilities prohibiting minors from entering. Have people at the doors checking for picture IDs.
That policy would put his church on the same level as the US Army is for recruiting cannon fodder. In their case, buggery fodder.
Posted by: WTFWJD | January 7, 2008 8:51 AM
The logical thing would be to cut off the supply of victims.
Exactly. If all the concerned catholics simply stopped attending church until his popieness does something rational (i.e.: they went on church-strike) then I betcha there'd be some revelations ripping right down from on high.
Oh, right - they can't do that. They're stupid and they're religion-whipped.
Posted by: Marcus Ranum | January 7, 2008 8:59 AM
PZ says: "In a rational world, there's a range of options available: stop protecting priests who abuse their position, threaten convicted child-abusing priests with expulsion and excommunication, even revisit this peculiar custom of demanding celibacy for the priesthood." He contrasts such rational steps with the irrational step of praying for divine assistance.
Now let's see what the article PZ links to has to say about this.
"stop protecting priests who abuse their position" -- from the article: Pope Benedict "lifted the legal protection that the Vatican had given to Father Marcial Maciel, the Mexican founder of the Legionaries of Christ, who was accused of sexual abuse of youngsters."
"threaten convicted child-abusing priests with expulsion and excommunication" -- not quite that, but "Maciel was banned from saying Mass or speaking in public" -- in short prevented from functioning as a priest or leading his organization -- even though not convicted but only accused (although credibly, I think). This is in line with policies undertaken in the US by the national conference of bishops for priests accused of sexual abuse in general.
Furthermore, the article says: "Officials said that the prayers were in addition to support for legal action against paedophile priests by their victims and a code adopted two years ago by the Vatican to try to ensure that men "with deep-seated homosexual tendencies" do not enter seminaries to train for the priesthood."
So I'd say PZ's engaging in a little quote mining in his post.
The second point in my last quote above involves a mistaken view -- it assumes that homosexuality = pedophilia. I don't claim the Church is free of all faults. Homophobia exists. I have put in the full quote, rather than leaving that troublesome part out, precisely to avoid continuing the quote-mining battle. But if we replace the troublesome statement with "steps taken to ensure that men with pedophile tendencies do not enter seminaries" -- which is, I think, the main intention here, though awkwardly put -- then we get some pretty reasonable steps taken. The prayers are in support of such efforts, not a substitute for them.
Posted by: Michael Kremer | January 7, 2008 9:10 AM
Considering it was prayer that led them to molestation in the first place, isn't more prayer just throwing gasoline onto the fire?
Who knows what their merciless god will tell them to do next?
Posted by: s1mplex | January 7, 2008 9:17 AM
Reminds me of one of my favorite bits of dialog from Futurama:
Posted by: arensb | January 7, 2008 9:30 AM
As long as the church doesn't understand the very basic principle that one cannot change one's sexual orientation, anything they will say about sexual morality will be of no value.
Pedophilia is a sexual orientation. Society does not know how to deal with it. Society, rightfully, needs to condemn all mentally or physically harmful and abusive acts. In otherwords, anti-social behaviors.
So, not only do we need to forbid those acts, but also encourage those who have such tendencies to come-out and get professional help, before they act. And it's precisely on this point that society fails. If someone has pedophile tendencies, he is defacto condemned by society, therefore is incentivised to act secretely.
No treatment will make them change their orientation, but, some will help them resist acting upon their temptations.
And, no, prayer won't help.
Posted by: negentropyeater | January 7, 2008 9:33 AM
I refer to these kinds of pray-a-paloozas as examples of the Peter Pan Principle, or the P3 as we in the biz like to refer to it. You know the one: If you believe in Tinkerbelle, clap harder.
They're not nearly as effective, however.
Posted by: Larry | January 7, 2008 9:38 AM
Makes no sense. If they are praying in perpetuity, then it won't ever go away, will it?
Besides, you can't get rid of a scandal. It's there forever. It's history, Ratface. Your history.
Telling people to bow their heads, squint and let their minds wander is way to con people into thinking the church cares (it doesn't) and acts as a force for good in the world (it doesn't).
Pope: See, I can make people do my will, by making pronouncements while wearing this pointy hat!
Wheeeeeee!
I imagine they will do the same for global warming, eventually.
Pray, you S.U.V.-driving, energy-consuming pigs, pray!
Posted by: CalGeorge | January 7, 2008 9:39 AM
If praying actually stopped pedophilia, there might be a lot of children who had better lives, just another example of religious people ignoring evidence.
Posted by: thadd | January 7, 2008 9:40 AM
"Vatican officials said that every parish or institution should designate a person or group each day to conduct continuous prayers for the Church to rid itself of the scandal of sexual abuse by clergy."
So, they're not praying for the abuse to stop, just the scandal. And presumably, among the persons conducting the prayers will be the abusing priests. So the end result is effectively "Please God, don't let them find out about me'. Perfect, that'll stop it.
Posted by: davem | January 7, 2008 9:46 AM
Speaking of clueless ideologues. . .
There is the Dallas Agreement, founded by the Catholic Bishops and overseen by a non-church board chaired by a layman, which is set-up to insure that the local dioceses are doing. . .among other things. . .insuring that pedophile priests ARE given over to law enforcement, and if obstinate, defrocked.
But no, you and your Horde just keep chanting and slapping yourselves on the back.
Makes you feel better about yourself. Good for you. Keep up dat ol' good time ignorance.
Posted by: Nobody | January 7, 2008 9:57 AM
Basically, the Pope is asking for priests to continuously pray, all the time, not to bugger kids. If the churches put the pedo priests on this perpetual prayer duty, they will be too busy to "lay hands" on the kids. Brilliant.
Idle hands are the pedo priests' work shop.
Maybe the RCC just needs to hold some inservice workshops on how to use one's hands to relieve one's sexual drive in the privacy of one's room...by one's self.
It might do a bit more good than praying.
Posted by: Shaggy Maniac | January 7, 2008 10:00 AM
Lightning bolts wouldn't be bad PR.
They'd be excellent PR.
As an atheist, I might just consider heading to the cathedral across the street for communion pretty much immediately if 10,000 priests were lightning-bolt-immolated one day...
Posted by: Richard | January 7, 2008 10:03 AM
Dear God:
Thanks for the priests you sent us. However, one thing we perhaps failed to mention is that we'd prefer priests that don't sexually molest our children.
Sorry, our bad. Please forgive us for failing to specify this.
If you agree that it is not a good thing to have priests that sexually molest our children (or if you are willing to indulge our preference not to have them), could you please help us remove the ones we have?
Sincerely,
your rubes.
Posted by: divalent | January 7, 2008 10:08 AM
Just to play Devil's advocate here, heh - I think PZ misinterpreted much but not all of the point. As I understand it, the more important point of the praying is not just to get God to intervene in the life of someone other than the prayer, but to have an effect on the persons doing the praying. Of course it would be silly for Nuns to pray for Priests, but if there is a psychological centering and self-reflective aspect it might do something for the ones practicing.
Posted by: Neil B. | January 7, 2008 10:08 AM
Yeah, nobody, because Dallas = the whole world
Posted by: somebody | January 7, 2008 10:10 AM
Wonder if I could make a catchy one liner about this to put over my existing bumper sticker "Nothing Fails Like Prayer" (courtest of FFRF, of course).
Cheers.
Posted by: Fastlane | January 7, 2008 10:12 AM
sorry, misread. but even so, I can assure you this doesn't exist where I live, and whatever good it may do in the states, supposing it's not just some PR front-thing, it doesn't happen in other places.
Posted by: somebody | January 7, 2008 10:12 AM
PZ says:
Ah, but the technique is very effective, if the point of it is to condition people to be completely content and numbed to inaction by their ineffectual ways and methods of dealing with the world. It's one strategy of many that helps insure that there will be no popular challenge to corporate interests including those of churches.Posted by: swb | January 7, 2008 10:24 AM
I can see your point, Chris, but it's a bit desperate isn't it? The level cognitive dissonance that the reality of abuse conducted by people who should be amongst the most trusted figures that a believer knows, is difficult to imagine. Presumably believers reduce the dissonance by reassuring themselves that their god is only allowing pedophilia to test their faith and, I guess, to demonstrate the reality of original sin.
Presumably true believers do actually believe that their prayers are listened to and acted on by god (in spite of any evidence to the contrary) and that they aren't primarily addressed to their 'holy' men?!
Posted by: AndrewC` | January 7, 2008 10:24 AM
What about the prayers of the children and others who were abused and victimized by these depraved animals? Were they not effective...or heard? A god who will not hear the plea of a child should not be revered--or prayed to-- by adults.
Maybe Pope Ratz and the entire Catholic hierarchy should pay closer attention to the Douay_Rheims Bible, Gospel According to St. Matthew, Chapter 18:
"Christ teaches humility, to beware of scandal, and to flee the occasions of sin: to denounce to the church incorrigible sinners, and to look upon such as refuse to hear the church as heathens. He promises to his disciples the power of binding and loosing: and that he will be in the midst of their assemblies. No forgiveness for them that will not forgive.
1 At that hour the disciples came to Jesus, saying: Who thinkest thou is the greater in the kingdom of heaven? 2 And Jesus calling unto him a little child, set him in the midst of them, 3 And said: Amen I say to you, unless you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. 4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, he is the greater in the kingdom of heaven. 5 And he that shall receive one such little child in my name, receiveth me.
6 But he that shall scandalize one of these little ones that believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone should be hanged about his neck, and that he should be drowned in the depth of the sea. 7 Woe to the world because of scandals. For it must needs be that scandals come: but nevertheless woe to that man by whom the scandal cometh. 8 And if thy hand, or thy foot scandalize thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee. It is better for thee to go into life maimed or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into everlasting fire. 9 And if thy eye scandalize thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee. It is better for thee having one eye to enter into life, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire. 10 See that you despise not one of these little ones: for I say to you, that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father who is in heaven. "
*****
Oh....maybe their angels did not plead their cause with the Father.....
Posted by: Chemist | January 7, 2008 10:30 AM
Michael Kremer @32:
Pope Benedict "lifted the legal protection that the Vatican had given to Father Marcial Maciel, the Mexican founder of the Legionaries of Christ, who was accused of sexual abuse of youngsters."
But what on earth does that mean? Is Maciel living in the Vatican City-State? The Vatican is a sovereign state of which the pope is absolute monarch, so yes, on Vatican territory it is entirely within Ratzinger's discretion whether to afford or withdraw "legal protection" to Maciel or to anybody else. So, does this then mean that Maciel will be tried for child-rape before a Vatican court?
Or is Maciel living in Mexico (or, for that matter, anywhere else outside the Vatican)? Ratzinger's sovereignty does not extend past the Vatican walls, and beyond those walls he can neither give Maciel legal protection nor take it away. Possibly "lift legal protection" here means simply "cease suppressing evidence and suborning witnesses; start cooperating with law-enforcement officials". Now, of course it's nice if the Vatican adopts a policy of not interfering in criminal investigations in countries that the pope does not rule. But it's not, y'know, anything the RC church deserves applause for. Protecting criminals is at best immoral and, in many cases, a crime itself. Doing so is grounds for fining the institution or, in serious cases, charging its agents with crimes of their own. Not doing so isn't in any way meritorious, it's merely the minimum to be expected of any institution.
To sum up: if the pope is actually going to start imprisoning child-raping priests that he captures in his jurisdiction, I'll be mildly impressed. If all he's doing, though, is saying that his organisation, outside its home country, will no longer arrogantly assume it is above the law of other sovereigns, well, that's a positive development, I suppose, but not exactly grounds for praise.
Posted by: Mrs Tilton | January 7, 2008 10:56 AM
Pray away the gay!
Posted by: Brian W. | January 7, 2008 11:18 AM
Pray away the gay!
Oh, "pray! I thought it was "play," and that just seems to make me g"ayer.
Posted by: MAJeff | January 7, 2008 11:35 AM
If the congregation is joining in prayers against pedophilia, it would be a constant reassurance to the youngsters they should speak up and the church will (in theory) side with them, not the priests. That could be effective in a big way, if the whole thing is handled right. AND it would get around the problem of priests admitting it only in confession, when it can't be taken to the police.
But the history of the Church does not give me great hope that the injured children who speak will indeed be listened to.
Posted by: Samantha Vimes | January 7, 2008 11:40 AM
The Pope's perpetual pedophile priest purity & penance prayer program has already been given a years-long field test, in a little place called Jemez Springs, New Mexico, USA.
That's a beautiful spot high in the southern Rocky Mountains, where decades ago the Catholic Church established a retreat for child-abusing clergy. (It was also the site of a Zen center, a drug rehab facility, and various NewAge projects - the spiritual vibes were, like, intense, man!)
The agenda at the Church's, ah, penitentiary was one of prolonged prayer, eventually followed by a reintroduction to priestly duties through helping out in Catholic congregations around the state. It worked about as well as you'd expect: the New Mexico archdiocese -- hardly a hotbed of rebellion in the pews -- was the first to accumulate over $1,000,000,000 in liability litigation.
It made my day when Ratzinger was elected pope, as I figured him to be the candidate most likely to do the most institutional damage to the Church. So far, my prognostication seems to have been completely validated -- maybe I'll light a candle to express my thanks.
Posted by: Pierce R. Butler | January 7, 2008 11:44 AM
Does this also mean that next time a priest is caught at child molestation the pope gets to blame it on the congregation not praying hard enough?
Posted by: Beowulff | January 7, 2008 11:57 AM
Pedophilia does not equal child abuse. You can be a pedophile, but never have laid a hand on a child or even seen one undressed. The criminal and other laws also usually don't mention pedophilia, but child abuse. Most of the people put in prison for child abuse aren't pedophiles.
Posted by: Reinis | January 7, 2008 12:06 PM
not too far from here (and in fact, where Ratzinger did most of his "teaching" and "research") there was a giant uproar when it was discovered the Catholic Church had taken care of a convicted child molesting priests...by moving him 30 miles.
According to the responsible bishop is was because "Jesus gave him a second chance". Now I don't wanna know WHAT exactly that second chance was for, but it sure strikes me as odd that the only people giving sex ed in the church seem to be rapists... I guess it's worth ~something~
Posted by: X. Wolp | January 7, 2008 12:06 PM
That's a beautiful spot high in the southern Rocky Mountains, where decades ago the Catholic Church established a retreat for child-abusing clergy,...
Sounds more like they are being rewarded.
Posted by: CalGeorge | January 7, 2008 12:14 PM
"The abuse which has caused this crisis is rightly considered a crime by society and is also an appalling sin in the eyes of God. People need to know that there is no place in the priesthood and religious life for those who would harm the young."
What about those who would harm the young by filling their heads with a lot of religious bullshit?
That's something people should find appalling.
Posted by: CalGeorge | January 7, 2008 12:22 PM
The kids are martyrs -- the Church needs martyrs. What happens is God's Will since everything that happens is consistent with the Will of God. Otherwise, it would not happen. This is what we Catholics call theodicy.
Just because God's ways are sometimes totally inscrutable to the laity, does not means that We cannot do what We wish. We do not even need to pray about it. That is just a sop to the press.
Honest to God, who's in charge here anyway. Not in 2,000 years has He raised His Voice or Hand against US. What are you bitching about.
Benny 16
Posted by: bipolar2 | January 7, 2008 12:32 PM
There is the Dallas Agreement, founded by the Catholic Bishops and overseen by a non-church board chaired by a layman, which is set-up to insure that the local dioceses are doing. . .among other things. . .insuring that pedophile priests ARE given over to law enforcement, and if obstinate, defrocked.
But no, you and your Horde just keep chanting and slapping yourselves on the back.
Wait. The church needed a scandal, a formal agreement, AND oversight from outside the church hierarchy to insure that the pedophiles are not protected but are turned in instead.
And then we get criticized for not bowing down in amazement over the acts of these moral leaders. Get a grip!
Posted by: gex | January 7, 2008 12:35 PM
Pedophilia != Gay
The more you make that association, the more you strengthen another of the Church's asinine morality assertions.
Posted by: gex | January 7, 2008 12:44 PM
Here's a case of redoubling their effort when they've lost their aim.
Posted by: Michelle | January 7, 2008 1:20 PM
Bad PR? If God gets all Old Testament on the Roman Catholic Church they'll have all the followers they want. I'd think it'd be pretty good PR...
Posted by: Steven Alleyn | January 7, 2008 1:23 PM
Seems that the only punishment handed down to Marcial Maciel from the Vat was an invitation to retire to a life of penitence and prayer. Regardless, Michael Kremer's point about the Vat's "support for legal action against paedophile priests" is notable. I wonder what "support" means? Financial support? If The Church were to foot the bill for legal actions taken against itself, I'd be favorably impressed.
Posted by: Kseniya | January 7, 2008 1:27 PM
Why did he not just suggest turning them over to the police?
Posted by: raj | January 7, 2008 2:04 PM
Australian Atheist #5: No next question please.
Oh and Reinis (#57) WTF?
Posted by: AlanWCan | January 7, 2008 2:43 PM
"Has this man no shame?"
Have you seen what he wears in public?
Posted by: Rey Fox | January 7, 2008 2:45 PM
All parishes are supposed to express penitence? So the victims are supposed to express penitence for being so stupid as to allow themselves to be in the same room as a priest, the parents of victims are supposed to express penitence for giving their children to the priests to be abused, and everybody who goes to any Catholic church is supposed to express penitence for providing the culture of stupidity and submission which allowed the whole thing to happen? Yes, sounds right to me. Wait, they are supposed to express their penitence for stupidity and submissiveness by being even more stupid and submissive? (And don't forget to keep the money coming folks. You're not pimping your kids to us since you are paying us to rape them, not the other way around.)
Posted by: Margaret | January 7, 2008 2:54 PM
Rey: "Have you seen what he wears in public?"
LOL of the day! Thanks! :-D
Posted by: Kseniya | January 7, 2008 3:03 PM
I wonder, though, how many child molesting priests actually fit the psychiatric definition of "pedophile?" I suspect the majority are situational offenders (from what I've read, this is also true of child molesters in other populations). Is there any data on this?
Posted by: azkyroth | January 7, 2008 3:09 PM
Xians have been praying for 2000 years, and where has it gotten them?
You would think that after all that time they would have learned what works and what doesn't, and they wouldn't all be as stupid as they still are today.
Or maybe it's just gawd's private joke.
Posted by: bernarda | January 7, 2008 3:27 PM
Who else but a gay individual would want to be a priest unless your from some backwater country and it's a way to influence and food?
Why does anyone, anywhere listen to anything the RCC has to say. They have through the centuries and into today been about as immoral and corrupt as an organization gets.
Thankfully they lose more members annually than all other denominations and outside of Africa appears to be dying.
Posted by: JimC | January 7, 2008 3:56 PM
Aren't these people praying to a deity who presumably sent the original calling to these men in the first place?
Posted by: Darby | January 7, 2008 3:56 PM
Hmm. If it had been anyone besides priests, we would have RICO trials. They'd die in prison.
Posted by: Mold | January 7, 2008 4:15 PM
I don't get why they can't get it through their skulls that praying is a useless activity. I mean everytime a pope is sick a billion Catholics around the planet pray for him and the bastard inevitably dies. If god aint gonna get off his bum to the tune of a billion prayers, to save his earthly representative then I'm buggered if I know exactly what he WOULD act upon.
Posted by: Bride of Shrek | January 7, 2008 4:27 PM
The Church has done tangible things. It is not just trying to pray away the problem. Please take sometime and read information that comes from the Catholic Church not just what is found in the media.
Did you know that sexual misconduct plagues US schools? Over 2,500 educators had allegations of sexual misconduct brought vs. them in a four year period from 2001 to 2005. While with the Catholic Church in the US 4,400 priests were accused of molesting minors in a fifty-two year period from 1950 to 2002. That isn't to down play what happened in the Church.
Where's the outrage against our teachers? Why wasn't this report on every TV channel and newspaper across the US when it came out last year?
It seems to me if people really had a problem with pedophilia there would be outrage vs. teachers but there isn't. People like to beat up on organized religion more than they really care for children. Here's the information if you're interested:
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20071020/D8SD2M700.html
Posted by: Don | January 7, 2008 4:37 PM
Don, if you'd look up from kissing the Pope's ring for a second, you'd notice one important distinction between priests, rabbis, pastors, imams, and everybody else in the fucking world:
They claim that the bullshit they peddle makes people better people, despite all evidence to the contrary.
It seems to me that if theists were even marginally more moral than the average bum who believes in a different god(s) or none at all (notwithstanding some of the more extreme claims that morality solely belongs to the religious), we wouldn't be having this question, now would we?
Fucking kiddie-fucker apologist.
Posted by: Brownian, OM | January 7, 2008 4:46 PM
Don, I don't recall the Department of Education intentionally moving suspected teachers from school district to school district. I don't recall the NEA suggesting that some of the students may have acted provocatively, and thus it is only partly the teachers' fault. I don't recall school boards making claims about moral leadership.
Posted by: Tulse | January 7, 2008 5:00 PM
Don said:
Did you know that sexual misconduct plagues US schools? Over 2,500 educators had allegations of sexual misconduct brought vs. them in a four year period from 2001 to 2005. While with the Catholic Church in the US 4,400 priests were accused of molesting minors in a fifty-two year period from 1950 to 2002. That isn't to down play what happened in the Church.
Where's the outrage against our teachers? Why wasn't this report on every TV channel and newspaper across the US when it came out last year?
Maybe because child-molesting teachers, unlike child-molesting priests, aren't protected by a wealthy international organization that engaged in a systematic cover-up of child abuse for decades.
When a teacher is accused of molesting a student, in most cases the teacher's superiors notify police immediately and remove that teacher from access to children. This has not been the case with the superiors of child-molesting priests.
Posted by: ndt | January 7, 2008 5:01 PM
Where's the evidence that sexual abuse by teachers has been systematically covered up and the teachers allowed to keep abusing children so long as it's kept quiet? As far as I'm aware, merely being *accused* of sexual misconduct tends to permanently end careers in teaching, whereas priests just get shuffled from one church or parish to another. Has the office of the Secretary of Education been paying out millions of dollars in hush money to try to keep it quiet? Is our present Secretary of Education asking people to simply wish for the abuse to stop, rather than taking legal action?
If not, of what possible relevance is this comparison?
Posted by: Azkyroth | January 7, 2008 5:03 PM
This issue is addressed by today's Jesus and Mo: http://www.jesusandmo.net/2008/01/07/hills/
Posted by: Ted Powell | January 7, 2008 5:08 PM