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Category: Religion
Posted on: February 29, 2008 3:56 PM, by PZ Myers
Ready to be disturbed? Watch this graphic movie of socially sanctioned child abuse of the worst kind — children who are indoctrinated into idiocy.
That's just the first part. Watch the rest, if you can.
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Comments
I don't wanna-- they frown on throwing up at work, here.
Pretty clouds in the first ten seconds, though. I was just explaining how rising air generates cumulus clouds to my oldest daughter last night... I guess Christians must think God is blupping them together with his big ol' invisible hands or something.
Posted by: mjfgates | February 29, 2008 4:02 PM
I used to believe in progress in the world...
Posted by: Olaf Davis | February 29, 2008 4:02 PM
One of two things is gonna happen
#1 He'll wind up like Ted Haggard
#2 He'll become and atheist in his 20's and realize his parents were off their collective rockers.
Posted by: firemancarl | February 29, 2008 4:06 PM
"That nasty Mr. Dawkins, suggesting that religion is child abuse! How dare he!"
Posted by: Tulse | February 29, 2008 4:12 PM
I saw this on UK TV and thought it was one of the most disturbing things I have ever seen. Why is there not a HUGE outcry about this??
If this was in the UK, I am near certain there would be outrage in the press (at least some of it). Certainly any pedestrian seeing this wee lad on the streets mouthing his ignorant hate would rapidly take matters in their own hands.
I must admit to being outraged at the fathers of these kids. Bad parents are bad parents but add in the certainties of religion and it gets really freaky.
Posted by: thetruescotsman | February 29, 2008 4:13 PM
scary!!
Posted by: rimpal | February 29, 2008 4:14 PM
Religion is a mental illness.
Posted by: H. Humbert | February 29, 2008 4:16 PM
Most of them will probably end up like Marjoe, in the long run.
Posted by: tceisele | February 29, 2008 4:20 PM
Well, I hope that such an incredible amount of bullshit will be abruptly vomited about the age of 16, 17, as it did for me.
RAmen...
Posted by: Benji | February 29, 2008 4:20 PM
Where's Queen Silver when you need her?
"The young Queen challenged Bryan to public debate [on evolution]. He declined to reply, but her well-publicized taunts resulted in national notoriety."
Posted by: Sarcastro | February 29, 2008 4:22 PM
Well, at least we've got three new potential sources for the next 'Marjoe'.
As if we needed further evidence that faith-based homeschooling is child abuse. The depths of the Mississippi parents' exploitation of their son is despicable.
Posted by: Ian | February 29, 2008 4:24 PM
Sigh.
I'm sorry, I can't say anything. This is just sad.
Posted by: Michelle | February 29, 2008 4:32 PM
. . .and I had thought I had hit my nadir for the year when I was given the Jan-March '08 issue of Answers in Genesis.
Posted by: mothra | February 29, 2008 4:32 PM
A lesson in English dialects, that surely is. With the voice-over in a Scottish brough, the Mississippi twang and the southern black ebonics, you get to hear some extreme distortions of the language in just under 10 minutes.
I wonder what would happen if you put the little nippers in the same room together.
"Two little Hitlers will fight it out until
One little Hitler does the other one's will"
- Elvis
Posted by: Amazona farinosa farinosa | February 29, 2008 4:34 PM
I'm a Christian (in the UK) but a big fan of the science content of this blog.
And I havent spoken to a single other Christian in the UK who wasn't appalled by this progamme. Its child abuse, pure and simple.
Posted by: Susan | February 29, 2008 4:37 PM
"Why god gave him the desire to preach in front of the abortion clinic door? I don't know."
Because he wasn't influenced at all by his parents?
I found the end of the documentary quite upsetting, the poor child just can't understand why anyone would disagree with the ideas he has been indoctrinated with.
Posted by: Amy | February 29, 2008 4:38 PM
Ah come on people! They are kind of cute!
Cute like Chuckie! Remember Chuckie?
(horror flick with the murderous doll)
Posted by: Sheldon | February 29, 2008 4:38 PM
This is especially despicable to an atheist, but I have to believe that 90% of believing Christians are also appalled. A seven-year old preaching about fornicators and homosexuals (i.e., sodomizers)? Insane. Grotesque. Depraved. Odious. I could go on...
Posted by: Davis | February 29, 2008 4:44 PM
#8 tceisele wrote:
Even Starcrash was't worth this!
Posted by: J | February 29, 2008 4:50 PM
And I havent spoken to a single other Christian in the UK who wasn't appalled by this progamme. Its child abuse, pure and simple.
which brings up an interesting point:
if ALL agree this IS child abuse (mental abuse), then why hasn't it been included as such from a legal standpoint?
It's just a matter of numbers, isn't it?
who can scream the loudest?
AFAICT, it's people just like this that can still scream the loudest, and thereby keep the idea that this really is child abuse off the legislative docket.
In the US, we see John McCain not only changing his political stance wrt to fundagelicals based on his rejection for chastising them in the 2000 primary, he even changes his actual stated religion to fit.
obviously, as such an important voting block, if one actually considered introducing a bill in the US challenging this type of cult indoctrination as being little more than mental abuse, it wouldn't get too far.
so what is the status in the UK?
why hasn't there already been legislation introduced to examine this type of behavior from the aspect of it being mental abuse? Or has there?
Is it that there are NO examples of this kind of thing in the UK? that would be hard to believe, even with the way religion is structured in the UK.
In fact, with the "religion protection act" (sorry, can't recall the exact name; or was it attached to another bill called the "Serious Organised Crime and Police Bill"?), Hasn't the issue kind of gone exactly the opposite direction?
what laws are on the books in the UK dealing with cults and cult indoctrination?
Posted by: Ichthyic | February 29, 2008 4:53 PM
Teaching this to children is equally pernicious IMO.
Posted by: mmghosh | February 29, 2008 4:58 PM
Sam Kinison was a child preacher, too, as I recall.
And he turned out okay, right?
Posted by: HP | February 29, 2008 5:02 PM
Fuck that ignorant little shit.
Posted by: Alex | February 29, 2008 5:02 PM
Evangelism! So easy and devoid of rational thought that even a child can do it!
Posted by: Misfit | February 29, 2008 5:02 PM
You must be joking. This is absurd.
Posted by: Geral | February 29, 2008 5:04 PM
Watch part 5. The poor kid's bewilderment and struggle not to cry is absolutely heartbreaking.
If he does find the strength to step into the light, he'll need some serious psychotherapy to undo the evil his father inflicted on him.
Posted by: Brownian, OM | February 29, 2008 5:05 PM
Wow...I couldn't even watch more than a couple of minutes of that, I just don't have the stomach for it. I consider myself a fairly empathic person, but I just can not identify, even the tiniest bit, with the mindset that says something like that is okay. I'm literally sickened by what those poor kids' parents have done to them, and I can only hope that they'll come to their senses later in life, since I'm sure nobody with the power to actually do something about it will admit to the blatant abuse that results in small children acting like that.
As people have already pointed out here, the more I see, the more I become convinced that Richard Dawkins is right: Religious indoctrination of children = child abuse.
-Kaerion
Posted by: Kaerion | February 29, 2008 5:07 PM
It's absolutely disgusting. There's child abuse, mental illness, and it's being supported by crowds of thousands. Maybe social services aren't as strong in the south as here in the northeast, but there needs to be some kind of psichiatric intervention...
Somewhat related-- a few days ago, the cover of one of the supermarket tabloids showed Tom Cruise's daughter, mentioned briefly the scientology-based isolation, the lack of medicine.
How about some similar mainstream US attention for Christianity-based abuses? Those cdesign proponentsists like to talk about equal time for their ideas, do they not?
Posted by: mona | February 29, 2008 5:08 PM
It's so obvious that the parents are doing it for themselves and to control their children. The Brazilian one that sleeps next to her father is probably the creepiest of all.
Posted by: thadd | February 29, 2008 5:08 PM
That's actually pretty fascinating -- the fact that talented kids can pick up the rhetoric and reproduce it in a way that's indistinguishable from the religious discourse that adults produce. It makes religion seem no different from music, a rhythm and tone you pick up, which is actually, to my mind, a sort of significant similarity.
Posted by: MrTimbo | February 29, 2008 5:09 PM
Yes, except that blogs4brownback was a parody.
(It was, unsurprisingly, good enough that plenty of real cre_ti_nists fell for it.)
Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | February 29, 2008 5:09 PM
Scared and sad. Don't know which I feel more.
Posted by: Dahan | February 29, 2008 5:18 PM
Let me toss in pissed off with those other two, also.
Posted by: Dahan | February 29, 2008 5:22 PM
Is it a UK thing to call these kids "bible bashers?" In the US wouldn't they be called "bible thumpers," with bible bashing reserved for the anti-religious, or is that just me?
Posted by: Alec T | February 29, 2008 5:26 PM
Is it a UK thing to call these kids "bible bashers?" In the US wouldn't they be called "bible thumpers," with bible bashing reserved for the anti-religious, or is that just me?
in the original thread that was from, that very issue was discussed, and the word "bashers" evidently is correct usage in the UK and OZ However, I agree that in the US we would typically use "beater" or "thumper" instead.
if the original author of the thread wanted wider audience empathy, I would think that changing it to "beaters" would be better (still maintain the 3 b thing).
Posted by: Ichthyic | February 29, 2008 5:31 PM
I'm not surprised at this. Charismatic Christians love this kind of thing. They don't really care if the children understand what they are preaching or not, because, after all, religion isn't built on reason and understanding, it's built on emotional manipulation and theatrics. All the children have to do to be prized by their elders is show a talent for simulating unshakeable conviction with a bit of showmanship. It's the foundation of the church.
I saw this kind of thing met with nods of approval many times.
Posted by: RamblinDude | February 29, 2008 5:33 PM
Alec T: I think 'Bible bashers' more comes from the image of an evangelist hitting people around the head with a rather sturdy holy text, while 'thumpers' is obviously a person thumping the Bible with their hand. Two different phrases, same idiocy as the subject.
I saw Baby Bible Bashers a week or so ago. It's utterly insane. I think that - along with Jesus Camp - almost everyone should have to watch it in order to understand how messed up religion can make society.
Posted by: Tom Morris | February 29, 2008 5:38 PM
Ugh. Disgusting. I watched the whole series and watching that kid be put through that by his demented ignorant fuckwit of a father about broke my heart.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | February 29, 2008 5:41 PM
I saw an article about this before, but it's even more disturbing when you see it. The saddest thing is if you sat down with one of them and showed them just from a biblical perspective whats wrong with their message (e.g., that God calls on people to kill babies a lot more often than save them, and the law in Leviticus punishes the killing of a foetus in a very different way to the killing of an adult), you'd end up convincing them that their parents are liars. And that is also going to scar them, probably worse than if they figured it out for themselves later on.
Posted by: IanR | February 29, 2008 5:42 PM
I have a young son the same age as the little blond "evangelist"; watching the little Mississippean try to control his emotions while he and his father are subjected to derision and anger on the streets of New York upset me deeply. What was worse than that was listening to this empathic little boy express his sorrow that so many of the people he preaches to are going burn (literally: burn, with all of the pain and terror that implies) forever. There is no mistaking that the sensitive little boy feels a helpless sympathy for all of these people who are going to live with infinite and unending torture. How can even an adult experience this level of emotion without burning out, becoming insensitive, or breaking down?
When Jehovah's Witnesses come to my door dragging their children with them, the better to terrorize the little tykes into believing that that evil, abusive cult is their only emotional home, their best choice in life . . . . I don't answer the door because I'm afraid I will physically assault their abusive parents.
There simply are not any curse words strong enough to express my dismay and my anger and my revulsion at this ruthless, selfish twisting of the emotional psyches of vulnerable children. I speak from experience; my father was a minister and as I had an excellent memory and a deep willingness to please, I performed in front of the congregation from any early age. We belonged to the United Church of Canada, one of the most liberal of Christian denominations, and even their mild message of Christian loving was mixed with so much hypocrisy, malign emotional abuse, irrationality, and absurd appeals to arbitrary authority that, even though I am fifty and have been an atheist for thirty-eight years, I still fight against the pernicious brainwashing which still sighs in my ears.
And when I measure the damage to these children that the abuse and threats of violence which constitute the greatest part of evangelism, I am further horrified. Familiarity with this evil does not inure me to its damage.
This is a horror film worse than "Saw" or "Hostel" or any of those other torture-porn pieces of garbage; they are only fiction -- what we are witnessing here is the deluded, sincere, self-righteous torture of children.
I have to stop. I'm going to burst a fucking blood vessel.
Posted by: Hairhead | February 29, 2008 5:44 PM
I would bet real money, and a lot of it, that the little blond kid suffers from really bad nightmares. And I would further bet that his nightmares involve worms.
It took me 20 years to shake the awful trappings of that nonsense. I hope he can do it faster than me - and that he can do it at all.
Posted by: WDC | February 29, 2008 5:51 PM
Posted by: amk | February 29, 2008 6:08 PM
I do not condone pushing or prodding children into preaching. Honestly though, I'm sure everyone can think of other examples where parents or family members unfortunately and maybe somewhat unknowingly because they think their motives are pure do exert strong influence on their children's activities. I am thinking of little girls in beauty pageants, and sons pushed into becoming star athletes. Some parents push academics or music lessons to the point of the child having no playtime at all. Then there are the showbiz moms and dads who are determined to make their child into the next star and drag them around to audition after audition. Children will do what they think their parents want them to do in order to receive rewards of love and attention and avoid punishment. I do not think new legislation would help when parents lack common sense.
Posted by: Louise Van Court | February 29, 2008 6:09 PM
Horrible, horrible.
Terry's a good singer, though. Least it's worth something.
Posted by: CrypticLife | February 29, 2008 6:12 PM
Ugh. Got to part 2. It's nightmarish already.
Posted by: CrypticLife | February 29, 2008 6:19 PM
Brownian #26 wrote:
No kidding. Although at that point, I was kinda pissed at the ranting old hippie who was yelling at his dad. As much as I sympathize with the desire to kick the crap out of the dad, that was not cool. (Well, unless he was yelling at him about child abuse maybe, which I don't think he was.)
Amy, #16 wrote:
I had the exact same reaction, except mine was punctuated with more cussing. And I just wanted to slap that stupid, sanctimonious bitch in the face, just a little.
Posted by: Leni | February 29, 2008 6:20 PM
i agree with firemancarl #3
i keep thinking ....marjoe gortner
Posted by: brightmoon | February 29, 2008 6:23 PM
I showed this to a Christian I know and the loudest groan of horror she made was when the Harrah's security guard says "I don't care what Jesus says!"
I am not kidding, by the way.
Posted by: October Mermaid | February 29, 2008 6:24 PM
That looks pretty similar to "Jesus Camp"
Posted by: Ashutosh | February 29, 2008 6:25 PM
It's doubly sad because you can't spank other people's kids.
Posted by: some guy | February 29, 2008 6:34 PM
This stuff is no joke. Invasion of the body snatchers is real. They got my family too. Religion will eat your brain and create a powerful reality distortion field in any cerbral cortex it can find.
Posted by: jeff | February 29, 2008 6:40 PM
At first, I thought "How can this kid even be aware of the biology and the ethics involved in the abortion argument?"
Then I realised that he understood it all just as well as yer typical fundigelical.
Posted by: Daniel | February 29, 2008 6:43 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxfThlCcfHI
nothing new under the sun
Posted by: billybob | February 29, 2008 6:50 PM
some guy: "It's doubly sad because you can't spank other people's kids."
It's not the poor kids who deserve the spanking here, it's their parents.
Posted by: Eric | February 29, 2008 6:52 PM
Jesus tap dancing christ.
And those parents are proud of this.
Posted by: dale | February 29, 2008 7:05 PM
This kind of thing can not and should not be legislated against, obviously. I agree with Louise Van Court that many parents treat their children in ways that could be defined as a form of child abuse. All that we can do is attempt to explain why this is not a good thing.
The difference between the UK and US on an issue such as this is that it would be deemed as socially unacceptable in the UK, even by the religious, themselves. You only have to look at the way in which Tony Blair was treated when he began mentioning that he was religious. Bar the usual apologists, there was almost universal suspicion. His status was certainly not helped by mentioning that he had a hot-line to the skies.
Richard Dawkins is absolutely correct when he says that the two countries are at polar opposites on this issue, overall. The religious are looked upon as being suspicious and peculiar in the UK. That is why is it important for atheists in the US to be loud and proud about what they believe.
Posted by: Damian | February 29, 2008 7:21 PM
It's not the poor kids who deserve the spanking here, it's their parents.
Pistol whipping is more like it.
Ah, for the good old days when a few of the appeasers over at Panda's Thumb would throw a self-righteous shitfit every time this subject came up.
Posted by: Great White Wonder | February 29, 2008 7:22 PM
I watched this just a few days ago -- I think someone posted a link to it in the comments here, or I followed a link from a link from here. Either way, it upset me. I shared it with everyone I knew. There was some ignorant preacher's daughter arguing with people on the YouTube clip comments as well, saying it's okay to hit "as long as you don't hit hard", and that the kid was disrespecting his mother "so its [sic] ok".
Poor, poor kids.
Posted by: Holydust | February 29, 2008 7:26 PM
OT but since we're talking about offensive videos, anyway..
That whale evolution guy from youtube you linked before has another vid up about whale evolution, this time in response to the actual scientific video you also posted alongside his. Here's his, ah, rebuttal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXbA338n_LM
Posted by: October Mermaid | February 29, 2008 7:26 PM
oh my Darwin, not that RaptureAlert nutball again.
self-delusional whackjob.
Posted by: Holydust | February 29, 2008 7:40 PM
Ah, for the good old days when a few of the appeasers over at Panda's Thumb would throw a self-righteous shitfit every time this subject came up.
shitfit in which direction?
I think Pim is running that blog these days, so appeasement is the rule of thumb now.
He REALLY hates it when I rag on Collins, for example.
At one time, I had a rather long thread specifically devoted to this issue over on ATBC.
I haven't a clue if anybody bothered to maintain it.
It was titled something like "Is religious indoctrination cultism?"
Posted by: Ichthyic | February 29, 2008 7:44 PM
#46/Leni - Why shouldn't that old hippie yell at the dad? NYC is a community, and a lot of us don't take kindly to outsiders getting in our faces about how some of us are going to burn in hell.
We're NYC. We tolerate pretty much anything except people who 1) mess up the infrastructure by blocking intersections, etc, and 2) behave like jerks towards other people.
Posted by: gorobei | February 29, 2008 7:49 PM
When Jehovah's Witnesses come to my door dragging their children with them, the better to terrorize the little tykes into believing that that evil, abusive cult is their only emotional home, their best choice in life. (Hairhead @ 40)
According to the recent Pew survey on religion, Witnesses have the lowest retention rate of any religion listed as members get old enough to leave home, and I'm sure it's a result of this abusing/embarrassing their kids in public (plus their apparent belief that fun, no matter how innocent = sin).
Posted by: Molly, NYC | February 29, 2008 8:15 PM
The part that caught my attention was when the black boy from Florida is in the swimming pool and says: "I know God exists because he talks to me. He sounds like myself, but I *know* it's God".
The only thing I can say is: WTF? I almost feel like smacking him and saying: "that might have looked like my hand, but let me assure you, it *was* the hand of God".
Posted by: Luis | February 29, 2008 8:27 PM
It is not sadness or despair that overwhelms me, but just
pure hatred and contempt for the adults who inflicted
this insanity upon these kids. They should be tried as
dangerous felons and executed, if only to dissuade other
unsound minds that they will not get away with this form of
child abuse and general mayhem. If this is not considered
an extreme form of dangerous and harmful brainwashing,
then we are in for a lot more insanity running rampant.
Posted by: Holbach | February 29, 2008 8:30 PM
If this is not considered
an extreme form of dangerous and harmful brainwashing,
then we are in for a lot more insanity running rampant.
it's not, and we do.
what you see in those vids is certainly nothing new, and is arguably the ONLY way the insanity that is fundagelism maintains itself.
I'd say talk to your representative if you want them to introduce legislation to change that (using previous legislation regarding cults), but most likely any place this kind of thing is a problem, the very problem people constitute the largest voting block.
hell, man, we can't even legislate the damn pentecostal snake handlers.
How many do you think would conclude that exposing your kids to venomous snakes is a good child rearing practice?
and yet...
http://www.rickross.com/groups/snake.html
Posted by: Ichthyic | February 29, 2008 8:37 PM
...
uh huh.
Posted by: Ichthyic | February 29, 2008 8:40 PM
I was waiting for "Little Terry" to break out into a rendition of "Fingertips" ala Little Stevie Wonder.
Posted by: Sillysighbean@aol.com | February 29, 2008 8:43 PM
When the big moron with his little moron was trying to
harangue on private property in Chester, Pennsylvania,
the guy who was telling them to move said god told him to
tell you to move to the other side. Love it! The retard
found it incredible that his god was also speaking to this
sinner! And, did I hear the father of the little black
retard pronounce "Statute" instead of "Stature"?
Posted by: Holbach | February 29, 2008 9:01 PM
Regarding the Brazilian girl... why do I get the feeling that she's going to get pregnant real soon, and dad's going to claim that it's a "virgin birth"?
Posted by: Longtime Lurker | February 29, 2008 9:03 PM
I posted at my site, and within minutes, a woman with some Christian website starts defending teaching children about homosexuals and abortion because they might be effected by it. How exactly is a seven year old threatened by abortion, did we loosen the definition recently?
Posted by: thadd | February 29, 2008 9:09 PM
[QUOTE]No kidding. Although at that point, I was kinda pissed at the ranting old hippie who was yelling at his dad. As much as I sympathize with the desire to kick the crap out of the dad, that was not cool. (Well, unless he was yelling at him about child abuse maybe, which I don't think he was.)[/QUOTE]
Well the old hippie guy was wearing a sign too, so he might be a little bit off too, but if something on the sign dirrectly hit home I could understand it.
Posted by: thadd | February 29, 2008 9:14 PM
teaching children about homosexuals and abortion because they might be effected by it
an interesting misusage (affected being the correct term), but in this particular case, I could actually see fundagelicals claiming exposing their kids to homosexuality as an idea would, in fact, affect them in such a way as to effect their becoming homosexuals.
just like they do with any other idea they consider "dangerous".
funny how they much they project the entire concept of censorship.
well, funny "strange" not funny "HAHA".
.
Posted by: Ichthyic | February 29, 2008 9:15 PM
Perhaps this will sound racist, and I hope it doesn't because I'm a little ol' white girl raised in a Baptist church in Northeast Texas, but... even as a Christian child/teenager I was always envious of the congregations of predominantly black churches, as well as the experience of the people who attended them. The overall atmosphere and message just seemed (on the whole) to be so much more positive and uplifting.
I guess what I'm saying is that I feel that kids raised in these crazy fundamentalist churches (Samuel, for example) are more likely to have nightmares, worry 24/7 about their immortal souls and the souls of others, and require therapy to get past it than a lot of the black Christians I've seen. I don't know where that comes from. I just know that when I was a kid, I wanted so badly to skip my own church and see if I could squeeze in at a black church without anyone being upset at me. I know they wouldn't have, but... you know?
Haha. A guess I had a lot of issues to work out. I just find Terry's story to be a lot less traumatic and upsetting than Samuel's, though both kids seem to be heading for a lot of internal strife. Terry's shyness, for example, raised a lot of questions for me. But it's a lot more clear that Samuel has trouble with the concepts posed to him. And his parents clearly aren't as interested in his happiness the way that Terry's grandmother seems to be.
It just reminds me that a lot of deeply religious parents have absolutely no idea how to parent without using the fear of God to do it. And I guess if that's how you believe God wants you to raise your kids, fine, but I think they should consider that it's likely their children will leave the faith BECAUSE of that. Logically (hah, logically) it would make me want to try harder to connect with my child. I was raised by a father who was also a Christian -- not by a heavy-handed Christian father. There's a big difference. :/
Posted by: Holydust | February 29, 2008 9:25 PM
Christians will never try to make a law calling this child abuse. Because they know too well that it's not far removed from how they'd raise their children, and after all, since we "know" that jesus is real and good, it's ok to do anything in his name.
He's the ultimate good, after all, so they'll feel that even though these particular parents came on a little strong, it's ok. At least they got Jesus. And after all, since we "know" Jesus is real, he'll help the kids, out right?
It's ok to brainwash and abuse your kids if you "know" that you're right. Why, that's just common sense! It would be simply inexusable to brainwash a kid with a wrong idea like, well, anything other than the right idea!
Posted by: October Mermaid | February 29, 2008 9:25 PM
Very disturbing. The parents revealed to what extend they are(n't) in touch with reality in their respective "dunno why he/she does it, must have been chosen by god" speeches. Totally oblivious to how their expectations and the desire to please drive their children.
Posted by: Bouncing Bosons | February 29, 2008 9:33 PM
PZ, this has to be the most incredulous and disturbing
video you have put on this site! I watched the whole set
twice and it leaves my brain in a state of utter and
mind-bending catatonia. What is equally amazing is that
these insane kids have an equally insane adult audience to
imbibe on their every crazy word and just keep on fueling
these retarded kids into adulthood. To reiterate as I
have done several times, religion has to be the highest
state of insanity. We, and reason in general, are in for some scary times ahead.
Posted by: Holbach | February 29, 2008 9:36 PM
Heartbreaking. Child abuse without doubt.
The sadness the kid feels about non-believers might save him. Probably not, but possible. My experience with adult fundies is that most of them don't care if others burn.
In fact, they seem to look forward to it. They can't wait to pull up that heavenly lazyboy to the high-def screen and watch those sinners poppin' in the oil.
So maybe that kid's empathy will cause a disconnect and he will abandon the entire idea. Probably not, though.
I'm burned out after watching that.
Posted by: eewolf | February 29, 2008 9:38 PM
That 3-yr-old fucker should have been aborted.
The world would be a better place.
"now I'm sitting in this waiting room
playing with the toys
and I am here to exercise
my freedom of choice
I passed their handheld signs
went through their picket lines
they gathered when they saw me coming
they shouted when they saw me cross
I said why don't you go home
just leave me alone
I'm just another woman lost
you are like fish in the water
who don't know that they are wet
as far as I can tell
the world isn't perfect yet
[...]
they keep pounding their fists on reality
hoping it will break
but I don't think there's a one of us
leads a life free of mistakes"
-ani difranco
Posted by: CalGeorge | February 29, 2008 9:40 PM
Whenever sex education in public schools is brought up, fundies claim that kindergarteners are too young to be exposed to homosexuality. So I also wonder what the blond kid thinks he is preaching about.
Today I got an email from Jerry Falwell's kid quoting Althea King as saying abortion is a racist, genocidal plot by Planned Parenthood. She says they are located in poor neighborhoods so they can kill more black babies. She threw in Margaret Sanger. They always do.
I can't wait until a Democrat is in the White House and all of Bush's unqualified fundie appointees are gone.
Posted by: wrpd | February 29, 2008 9:55 PM
For an example of what can happen to these kids. At the U. of X., someone randomly attacked a few girls (coeds less than 20 FWIW), then one was stabbed to death.
It was a fundie kid from some brain dead cult who had been homeschooled by religious fanatics. The parents might have been well meaning but the kid was way too warped. I can't say there was a connection for sure, but where there is smoke there is fire. Probably.
My guess is some of these kids will have nightmares day and night and figure out what caused it and get the hell out of the Death Cults. Stats say 50% of in-college fundies do so. The rest end up like the parents and flip burgers and mow lawns.
Posted by: raven | February 29, 2008 9:58 PM
Poor kids! I wonder if the nightmares have already started for them. Probably.
A half-century ago, we kids were told of these preacher kids, and encouraged to emulate them. I was shy. So I was 11 before I dared stand up and "give my testimony", 13, before I was a regular Sunday School teacher. Luckily, I wasn't a boy, and girls couldn't preach back then, so no more was expected of me. Beyond a life-time of "full-time service", which I was happy to give.
It took me 50 years to free myself.
That shy kid really shook me. What forces make him take on the new personality when he is preaching? I shudder to think what his life will be.
Posted by: Susannah | February 29, 2008 10:01 PM
With some hesitation, I watched the whole set of videos. It really is incredibly disturbing. Most of what I have to say about the film has been said above and I agree with Holbach (@76) that "[w]e, and reason in general, are in for some scary times ahead".
However, I am also - although certainly not equally - disturbed by the fact that some of you find it at all appropriate to call these children idiots or morons or to claim that they ought to have been aborted. The problem is not with the children, but with their abusive parents. None of these children have chosen this path. None of these children truly understands just what it is that they are saying or what the implications are of their faith-inspired -- or, more accurately, parent-dictated -- rants. These children deserve our concern and pity, their parents, our anger. Blaming and ridiculing these mentally and emotionally brutalized children is unacceptable.
Posted by: Avekid | February 29, 2008 10:02 PM
The rest end up like the parents and flip burgers and mow lawns.
...and have lots of kids.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy
None of these children have chosen this path.
their parents didn't, either.
Posted by: Ichthyic | February 29, 2008 10:07 PM
Well, the prophet Isaiah did say, "And a child shall lead them," thus proving how insane it is to try to make prophecies come true, no matter what.
Posted by: Dale Husband | February 29, 2008 10:13 PM
The Floridian boy's money-grubbing dad irritated me, the Brazilian girl's father creeped me out with his molester air, and the Mississippian boy's dad almost made me homicidal. The third is a real gem, using his kid to compensate for his drunkard years, tormenting him with the concept of hell for violating "honor thy mother and father," and letting him lag behind him on the streets of a major city.
Though mom wasn't much better. One of the more disgusting scenes was when the boy was balking at reading whatever book she was trying to thrust at him and asked her to "please" take her hand off him. Cut to dad, and you can hear her hitting the kid multiple times in the background. I'm not anti-spanking, but there's a time, a place, and a limit. It's nauseating to watch people harry woman for "killing babies" when their own children are treated with less respect than I give my dogs.
Posted by: deerjackal | February 29, 2008 10:27 PM
"their parents didn't, either."
#83, At least two of the parents did, the father of the blond boy had been a drinking wife beater before converting to Christianity and the Brazilian father had been in jail as a drug using corrupt cop.
Posted by: thadd | February 29, 2008 10:36 PM
Someone on youtube made this clever comment about Terry's healing abilities: "He can cure cancer and the crippled, but he can't cure his grandmother of obesity?"
Oh snap.
Posted by: October Mermaid | February 29, 2008 10:37 PM
How about healing himself, he hears voices, that usually isn't a sign of the highest mental health.
Posted by: thadd | February 29, 2008 10:39 PM
The videos brought back scary memories -- my dad went Jebus-freak on us when we were quite young and dragged us around to prayer meetings, which at our age seemed like an excuse for adults to behave as madly as they liked. Took me years to get over the fear and the unreal mindset these people impose on themselves (and the impressionable). In the case of Terry it seems his devoted father doesn't mind worshipping money, either. I'll never understand how the biblical Jesus's attitude towards poverty (and for that matter, not condemning one's fellow man) translated into this venal, petty, mean-spirited modern fundamentalist Christianity.
Posted by: Chairman Meow | February 29, 2008 10:41 PM
the father of the blond boy had been a drinking wife beater before converting to Christianity
somehow you concluded being a drunken wife beater and a fundagelical are mutually exclusive?
I rather think if you looked into the father's own history as a child, you might not think his choices so broad.
there's always exceptions, but this ki