…and this is a 
How Ricky Gervais lost his faith
Category: Godlessness
Posted on: February 24, 2008 8:16 PM, by PZ Myers
Ricky Gervais has published his deconversion story — I feel a little inferior because he made up his mind about it very quickly, while it took me years to ease my way out of the nonsense.
I like his answer, though, especially the last paragraph below.
…within an hour, I was an atheist.
Wow. No God. If Mum had lied to me about God, had she also lied to me about Santa? yes, but who cares? The gifts kep coming. And so did the gifts of my newfound atheism. The gifts of truth, science, nature. The real beauty of this world. Not a world by design, but one by chance. I learned of evolution—a theory so simple and obvious that only England's greatest genius could have come up with it. Evolution of plants, animals, and us—with imagination, free will, love and humor. I no longer needed a reason for my existence, just a reason to live. And imagination, free will, love, humor, fun, music, sports, beer, and pizza are all good enough reasons for living.
But living an honest life—for that you need the truth. That's the other thing I learned that day, that the truth, however shocking or uncomfortable, in the end leads to liberation and dignity.
Comments
You know, those work pretty well for me too.
Posted by: MAJeff | February 24, 2008 8:22 PM
I particularly like Ricky Gervais's take on Genesis.
(some cussin')
Posted by: J | February 24, 2008 8:24 PM
I'm not sure when I decided didn't believe in God anymore, but I first identified as an agnostic in 7th grade and by the end of the year as an atheist. Now I don't call myself anything. I've always felt "atheist" and "agnostic" were "dirty" words and I've probably only said them less than a dozen times in my life.
Posted by: Alex | February 24, 2008 8:31 PM
Ricky Gervais is a hilarious gentleman, and I feel even better about liking him due to his godlessness. I never really believed in a deity, or really any other story told to children, when I was a kid. I guess that is a perk of growing up in a faith-free home.
Posted by: BobK | February 24, 2008 8:40 PM
"I no longer needed a reason for my existence, just a reason to live. And imagination, free will, love, humor, fun, music, sports, beer, and pizza are all good enough reasons for living."
This is great. This is what I think was the greatest realization for me in finally becoming an atheist. Probably the greatest thing that held my back from really deciding that I no longer believed in god was the feeling that a belief in god gave life purpose. Now that I've changed my mind re god, it's incredible how much more purpose I feel my life has! Hey, now we're doing it for ourselves, right, not some man in the sky whose intentions we need to stress over fulfilling correctly.
Posted by: LisaJ | February 24, 2008 8:46 PM
I actually believed in Santa for a longer time than God. True story. What can I say? I was a gullible/greedy kid.
Posted by: Karley | February 24, 2008 8:52 PM
Wow, pretty powerful stuff. I like it.
Posted by: firemancarl | February 24, 2008 8:52 PM
Ricky bashes religion for the first 5 minutes in this youtube video from his Fame tour.
Posted by: Steindor J. Erlingsson | February 24, 2008 8:59 PM
Now that I've changed my mind re god, it's incredible how much more purpose I feel my life has! Hey, now we're doing it for ourselves, right, not some man in the sky whose intentions we need to stress over fulfilling correctly.
It's funny how some can't accept that without a deity life isn't hopeless. I've had conversations last until 5:30 in the morning that have changed my life, troubled me, and provided intense pleasure. I've watched comics who've had me laughing so hard my sides and my face were in pain. I've had meals, which I still remember, that had my entire body tingling or brought tears to my eyes. I've had amazingly intimate sexual encounters when I never knew more than the other person's first name, and never saw them again. Listening to Mahler's first symphony at the Concertgebouw nearly sent me into spasms of ecstasy. On top of that, I have a job that engages my own curiosity and that allows me to fucking play (and while i work my ass off in the classroom, it often feels like play time too).
Shit, that's some pretty good living. I can imagine a lot worse.
Posted by: MAJeff | February 24, 2008 9:00 PM
I feel a little inferior because he made up his mind about it very quickly, while it took me years to ease my way out of the nonsense.
Same with me, but I de-converted at over 30 years of age and not with 8 years old. I guess the longer you have been in the longer it takes to get out.
Posted by: Thomas Widmer | February 24, 2008 9:01 PM
I was raised atheist so I've never actually had to deconvert and I always wonder if I could have actually done it.
Posted by: lostmarbles | February 24, 2008 9:12 PM
I never really believed....I was raised Lutheran and a lot of it never made sense, even when I was a child {and I have the scars to show; asking questions was not an encouraged activity). When I was 15, my parents told me that I could quit going to church if I'd get up in front of the whole congregation and explain why....they thought that would be a deterrent.
It wasn't. And I haven't been in a church willingly since save for weddings and funerals, which are regrettably often set in such places.
Posted by: Matt H | February 24, 2008 9:19 PM
I'm waiting to hear from The Flight of Concords.
Posted by: danley | February 24, 2008 9:24 PM
That is one hell of a deconversion story, and at such a young age to boot!
I wonder how embellished it is?
Posted by: Cyde Weys | February 24, 2008 9:29 PM
PZ used to be a theist? Color me shocked. I always assumed he was like me and was missing some kind of religion gene or something. I can still remember sitting in church when I was 6 years old listening to the preacher and thinking "Well that's just stupid".
Posted by: Boosterz | February 24, 2008 9:30 PM
Nice story. I know I was atheist by age 9, as I totally freaked out a teacher by telling her there's no god. I have no moment of epiphany, though.
Posted by: True Bob | February 24, 2008 9:31 PM
Sometimes it takes only one simple question to shock a brainwashed person into reality. It took Ricky Gervais one hour to become an atheist when his brother asked him "Why do you believe in God?". When I was a high school student it took me a few months to become an atheist when my 16 year old girlfriend shocked the heck out of me when she asked "Why do you go to church?".
Posted by: BobC | February 24, 2008 9:33 PM
Amen, MAJeff! ;)
Posted by: LisaJ | February 24, 2008 9:38 PM
I wasn't raised religious, I wasn't raised anything. (And I mostly wasn't raised, but that's another story.)
I do remember though when I was maybe 3 or 4 years old one day my mom sent us off to the neighborhood bible school pretty much just to get us out of her hair for an afternoon. It wasn't religious instruction, just coloring and stuff.
I was coloring this picture of this guy, looked like a lot of people then (it was the late 60s).
This old woman came and asked me if I knew who he was. She was OLD, I mean, she had GREY HAIR and everything.
I said I didn't, she explained he was Jesus, and gave me some quick kids version of the story. It struck me as odd... I mean, I was familiar with these things, I'd seen the Rankin-Bass cartoons, I loved Rudolph and had named a stuffed reindeer I had after Fireball.
But this was different - she MEANT it. I was amazed. Here was this old lady - she was OLD - she had GREY HAIR! And she still believed in fairy tales.
I can't remember for sure what I told my mother about it, but that was the one and only afternoon I was ever sent to bible school.
Posted by: Craig | February 24, 2008 9:42 PM
Lostmarbles: You could have done it. I did. I was raised without religion as well, I converted in college, and deconverted three years later. Mine happened even quicker than Mr. Gervais. It was like flipping a light switch. All I did was think "What if I viewed the world as if there was no all powerful being watching me," I tried it, and the thoughts and feelings I had learned to associate with "God" disappeared just like that.
Posted by: Citizen | February 24, 2008 9:43 PM
I want to also point out that although I loved Rudolph, I never believed in Santa either, even though I was never told he wasn't real, and like every kid back then I was immersed in those Christmas cartoons.
I think that the key is that while my parents never told me Santa wasn't real, they never told me he WAS real either.
I think kids have an innate ability to understand that fairy tales are fairy tales, that make believe is make believe, and the only time they bet wrong is when their trust in their parents is misused to MAKE them believe the fairy tales.
Posted by: Craig | February 24, 2008 9:47 PM
I was raised Baptist. At the age of 9, I tried REALLY HARD to believe all that nonsense, and utterly failed. I went along to get along. I did not "come out of the closet" until I moved away from home.
My family still thinks I'm a good church-going Christian, and I don't plan to disillusion them on that point. But the church I go to is an atheist 'church' -- the North Texas Church of Freethought www.churchoffreethought.org
Posted by: TX CHL Instructor | February 24, 2008 9:52 PM
My mother was what we call a submarine catholic ( come up for air twice a year ie go to mass on good friday and xmas eve)who came from a MEGA catholic family so I guess she sent us to catechism classes on a Sat morning out of habit. Dad is a staunch athetist from a long line of athesists and I guess he let her send us to get us out of his hair for two hours a week. I can vividly remember, at the age of 7, asking why the little red light was on over the throne in the nave of the church and being told by the priest ( who by the way was sadistic prick who loved giving us a whipping) it was always on when God was with us and he sat in that chair. I called bullshit on it when I came early the next week and saw the lying bastard turn it on himself. One instant deconversion from catholicism.
And I know I've said this on this blog before but, I live in hope that one day the vatican might tune into Pharyngula and pass the message on, FUCK YOU MONSIGNOR WALSH.
Posted by: Bride of Shrek | February 24, 2008 9:55 PM
I was raised a freethinker without the benefit of knowing it.
I was baptized into the Catholic Church as a baby to appease my grandparents. Beyond that, my experience with religion was limited to the occasional wedding or funeral. I was a Catholic in name only.
The closest thing to an epiphany was attending a friend's catechism class when I was about eleven. The whole experience was mortifying. I realized that I had no idea what it meant to be Catholic. Even worse, I could not accept any of the things they were asking me to believe.
For years, I dreaded the question "What religion are you?"
I didn't know what to answer.
Posted by: Tony Popple | February 24, 2008 10:07 PM
One of my earliest childhood memories is of being taken to church at about the age of 4. I remember it because I didn't believe a word of it. I think that the problem was that I didn't believe in souls. If I had a brain, why did I need a soul too. When you are 4, arguments don't tend to be particularly nuanced.
My mother was horrified when she walked in on my brother and I discussing it. She sent us to Sunday school every week until I was 10. Then the priest asked her to either stop us from asking questions, or not to send us any more.
Posted by: Malcolm | February 24, 2008 10:18 PM
when I was younger my family went to church every week, but didn't think about it much, I went to catholic school and was a pretty knowledegable kid about the handpicked church school stories.
When I was in grade 6, I saw the movie Contact (Jodie Foster finds aliens and gets sent in to space, fundies try to blow her up), they mention ockham's razor and how god is neither useful or likely and it got me thinking abotu how much I actually believed. I realized I was an athiest by the end of the night, and kinda horrified everyone else in my classs...
Posted by: Al | February 24, 2008 10:24 PM
I feel like a dumb-ass for not having been an atheist since the third trimester. However, I was raised deep in the shit as a pentecostal fundamentalist. I wanted to please my father who was a selfish, grouchy, aloof man. I saw that he believed so at 5 or 6 I went forward at the alter call to give my life to Jesus. This pleased him so I continued.
But hey, it got harder and harder to believe as I was confronted by the real, diverse world.
At the turning point, I did one thing that makes me feel like I wasn't such an ass. I thought that if there was a God he would have to be more perfect and more moral than I was. He would have to have thicker skin also. I reasoned, if I could not in good conscience punish sinners for eternity in a lake of fire then how could a holy god be such a dick to do so, and such a thin skinned one at that.
I took my time and read a lot of textually critical books and read about science and evolution.
Just like they give all competitors ribbons at the special Olympics I should get some credit for making the correct choice even if it took a while.
Posted by: Rick Terriere | February 24, 2008 10:25 PM
Inspiring stuff.
As for my conversion? I was your typical blind-and-deaf Christian thanks to my upbringing, though I always got the impression that my dad was just going to church because my stepmom wanted us all to. Once they divorced and it was just him and me, we tried going to a church in our new town but were revolted at how clearly everyone there was just pulling a huge popularity contest. So Dad made it pretty clear that we didn't need to attend some stupid church to have our faith.
I continued to parrot stupid crap -- telling friends that homosexuality was bad, etc. Then I met a girl online who quickly became my best friend, someone who was at the same place I was religiously.
Then one day we realized we were sort of in love with each other.
It didn't carry the terrorizing weight I would have expected. We both sort of shrugged and realized it was actually pretty awesome. At that point I realized that my conceptions of God were mistaken and I fell briefly into agnosticism.
Then I found Wicca. :) Sure, it's silly, but it gave me the inspiration I had needed to GROW UP, take responsibility for my own actions and be a real human being. My father never chided me for it -- he merely patted me on the head and told me it was a phase I'd grow out of.
I continued on the Wiccan path for about ten years until recently. I had been far from a practicing witch up until then... sort of like a Catholic who just says they are because it's what they're used to. But then I started falling in with you lot, and studying science, and now I guess I'm either an agnostic or an atheist, or somewhere in between. But only when you get down to the "before the Big Bang" concept. And I think we're all pretty much in agreement that there's no way of knowing about that. :D
Silly though it was, I wouldn't trade the Wiccan path I followed for anything. It taught me important lessons about morality. I learned to do the right thing not because someone up above would frown at me and punish me, but because it would best serve myself and the people I love if I choose to take the upright path. If it weren't for that, I don't know what kind of person I would be today. But I know I would have learned that, also, if I'd discovered science and atheism instead, so it's all good. :D
Don't make fun of me! :D We are what we are. *LOL*
Posted by: Holydust | February 24, 2008 10:26 PM
I love these stories. Thanks, people.
Posted by: Craig | February 24, 2008 10:34 PM
I can't relate to any of these conversion stories for the simple reason I (was) never converted. I was born an atheist just like everybody else, but I was also raised as one. You can say I was born right the first time :).
All that said, I admire all you people that gathered the strength to break away from the dungeon called religion. In most cases it was done against a lot of oppression and negative reaction from friends, family and society in general. All things I never had to endure and am eternally grateful or it.
Posted by: Vlad | February 24, 2008 10:35 PM
Hoydust
I'd say, from the intelligence and thoughtfulness of the comments of yours that I have read so far, that we're glad you "fell in with us lot". And, as I've said before, Pharyngulites have a tendency to surround and maul the unthinking commenter that ridiculously refuses to examine their dogma and holds to beliefs without reality based evidence. Someone, such as yourself, who examines, thinks and takes the effort to learn would NEVER be made fun of.
Many of us come from religous upbringings, some do not,some have probably believed their fair share of woo in their lives, some have always been skeptics. What is important is the point we have achieved NOW in our lives.
Posted by: Bride of Shrek | February 24, 2008 10:41 PM
I hope y'all will forgive me if I get a bit sociological and shit. One of the things I'm noticing here, which is interesting given the thrust of Dawkins' "Out Campaign," is the similarity of the ritual telling of these "deconversion stories" with the ritual telling of "coming out" stories. (And for crying out loud, that's still a topic on the first date--are you out to your family?")
Parts of my work are in narrative (I teach a summer class on it too) and the ways people tell stories, the roles stories play, these things fascinate me. There are such structural similarities in these stories (vague feeling something's wrong; uncovering and accepting truth, about self or god; difficulties divulging this identity to others, fear of and actual loss of relationships, and harrasment; integration of new identity into sense of self and open with it to significant others and in public).....and the ritual tellings...particular threads. I wonder, do atheist dates start with this like gay dates do? I wonder, when these meetups start happening, will we be chatting about this stuff? Or, will we be traditional Americans and talk about our jobs?
/sociologist
Posted by: MAJeff | February 24, 2008 10:47 PM
The best part, for me, of reading all these stories is the fact that the vast majority come from people who have a sense of humor about what they went (or were put) through, who have managed to preserve relations with their families despite leaving the church they were brought up in, and who are not consumed with anger over the form of child abuse they endured (to varying degrees, obviously). I grew up in a really wacko fundamentalist environment, managed to escape it physically at age 22, mentally at about 30, and emotionally some years later. The people writing these anecdotes showcase what I aspired to and have at long last achieved--a life in which the religion I was indoctrinated in is simply irrelevant, a mistake set aside and learned from, but not dwelled on or obsessed over. Congratulations and thank you, all.
Posted by: cureholder | February 24, 2008 10:47 PM
And, adding, the role of ritual story-telling in developing and strengthening a collective identity.
Posted by: MAJeff | February 24, 2008 10:48 PM
MAjeff - best comment ever, perhaps? I agree in totality - life is beautiful, even the little moments of pain can be seen as beauty and experience.
You now, I never stop being amazed at this home of ours, and itis during my classes when a student askes me a question that makes me think....really think...that I stand in amazement. A young brain, making me think. Meaning that THEY are thinking....beautiful.
Music, food, thought....reality. Its a grand game we play. Love it. Take part in it. Dont trainwreck it with falsehoods.
Posted by: Monkey | February 24, 2008 10:52 PM
Aww, Fiona.
You guys make me feel all warm and fuzzy every day. And the extra bonus is the sparkly wonder I get about the world when I recognize that there IS a reason to be here that doesn't involve some misogynist jackass pulling my puppet strings. I honestly feel like I enjoy life more right now than I have in any of my previous years, and I owe it all to the things I've learned here.
Now I'm gonna shut my yaptrap before I give somebody cavities. :'D
Posted by: Holydust | February 24, 2008 10:55 PM
You know MAJeff that is a really interesting point. Do you discuss this on the first date? I think there is a large cultural component to that because I think I'm a fairly typical Aussie and I'd say that we would ASSUME the other person is NOT religious unless they said otherwise, perhaps because it is by far the norm here to be non-practising of a religion ( according to the latest Census most Australians have a religion designated at birth, probably by well meaning parents, but do not pracice any form of religion.) Personally if someone started on at me about religion on the first date I'd run like a scared rabbit.
However, as I'm an old married bag any talk of first dates for me is purely hypothetical. Fortunately Mr Shrek is a big old heathen like myself.
Posted by: Bride of Shrek | February 24, 2008 10:59 PM
And 'lo, Gervais IS a handsome man and a funny fucker!
Posted by: jfatz | February 24, 2008 11:06 PM
As many of you in here I was never taught a religion when I was young and thus remained atheist. It wasn't until a few years ago I started describing myself as atheist, I had preferred agnostic up until then.
Some of the older family members on my dad's side are religious, my aunt was a missionary who made trips to the philippines until she died of cancer years ago. It seems the younger you are the less likely you are to be religious. The amount of religious people in New Zealand is dropping quite quickly, my generation seems to be making a good effort.
Check out the pleasing trends, 1991 - 22% non-religious, 2006 - 38% non-religious.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_new_zealand#Statistics
I can only hope this trend continues. :D
A few of my friends are not only Christians but creationists! I've made it my goal to get them to accept evolution, I'll get them one of these days...
Posted by: Slyer | February 24, 2008 11:07 PM
I guess I should thank my parents and a few good teachers that I never had to be "deconverted". My dad is a physicist. I remember one time he suggested we make a list of "things that are bullshit". It got to be quite a long list, including gods, pixies, angels, bigfoot, etc. etc. I also remember a geometry teacher I had who impressed upon us the need to examine any claim in the light of logic and reason. He'd start with an example, say a stupid, topical commercial on TV and ask us to really think about whether the claims made jibed with reality. I learned not to take anything at face value. From this I realized that "faith" wasn't a positive, and that reason protected us from being victimized . I wasn't raised an atheist. I was raised to trust my intellect.
Posted by: xeric | February 24, 2008 11:15 PM
Nice story. Thanks!
I was raised from an early age in the Christian Science cult.
At about the age of 10 or so, I slammed my palm against my forehead . . . . .and realized that Mary Baker Eddy and my parents were batshit crazy.
Religion is all about control. You convince the "sheep" that you have the keys to their immortal soul, you've got 'em by the balls.
Fuck religion. May the holy ghost get the drizzling shits and live forever. . . . . .
Posted by: waldteufel | February 24, 2008 11:15 PM
MAJeff,
You're talk of coming out is ironic in my case. In my haste to add my deconversion story I used auto fill and gave away my identity. You see, my family knows that I don't attend church but don't know the extent of my disbelief. I'm also considered to be such a good grandson, nephew and dad that I think my family would be shocked that I could possibly be an unbeliever and still be fun to be around.
I really don't want to cause them anxiety because of a make believe story. Knowing them, they would have prayer chains for my lost soul. Hey, my grandmas going to be 100 in a month, my dad is 80 and I would like them to die fat and happy. They can believe what they want and I can do the same.
Oops, I hope word doesn't get back to them. We'll see.
It's fun to hear these stories though. Let's hear some more.
Posted by: Rick T. | February 24, 2008 11:15 PM
I was raised "freethinker" and really hated being asked what I was when I was a child, because nobody knew what the heck that was -- including me. When I asked about God, my mom told me she didn't know, but felt that perhaps God was a kind of energy that flowed through the universe like electricity, and we were like light bulbs, and when we died we joined back into the flow.
That made sense to me -- and so did Mark Twain, when I encountered him later. I read the entire Children's Book of Bible Stories and liked them as much as Greek mythology, so I became sort of "spiritual but not religious" for much of my life. I dabbled intensely for a while with New Age philosophy, which is very deep and meaningful (when you're about 13 years old).
Later, when I married and had a baby, I found that most of the most interesting women whom I hung out with were quite religious -- so I decided to take it seriously, read, study, go to church, and investigate. After all, finding God was presumably a critical step in one's maturity. For a short time I was "Christian" -- decided to read the entire Bible with a "searching heart" -- but secretly found it disappointing. This was the perfect inspired word of God? I'd majored in English lit. I analyzed it like a literary text. It was a literary text. There were serious continuity problems. And the characters were pretty flat, considering. I wasn't filled with that blinding light of inspiration.
After thinking about it for a while, I decided to put religion and God to the test. Everyone agreed, nothing was more important than God. It filled a hole in your life and heart that nothing else could. It was not possible to live a meaningful life without God. This was how they all just knew God existed. Love and beauty and wisdom made knowledge of God's presence inescapable.
Okay then -- I would try to continue to fill my life with love, beauty, and wisdom -- WITHOUT God. According to the theory, it would not be possible. God is the MEANING of life, and no life without God could have meaning. If I was open and not hostile to the idea, then the knowledge would come to me.
Believe it or not, my religious friends were all thrilled with this when I told them. They thought it a perfect test. To be fulfilled, one must be in touch with their spiritual side. God is inescapable if you're looking for meaning. They knew me, and they knew I was sincere and sensitive, so they trusted God (or "Spirit") would find me this way.
You can guess the rest.
Actually, that's not a bad test. Because if God existed, and was the foundation of all meaning, then one would predict that all pleasure in life was hollow, without it. Trouble is, being raised without religion, I was raised without the "God-shaped hole." I was like the person who was never addicted, going cold-turkey. So, what's the fuss?
Posted by: Sastra | February 24, 2008 11:33 PM
I have never believed, either. I was Christened as a nipper, but that was really...well, I have no idea as to the reason, to be honest, as my parents have never mentioned God in any context. Even as a youngster I found the whole idea of grown ups behaving so sycophantically (towards some guy who lived all those years ago, as I saw it) as an oddity.
One interesting point, though, and something that we should be honest about, is the fact that most of us - whether theist or atheist - seem to have arrived at our decision, not through a long process of reasoned analysis of the evidence, but as something more akin to an emotional response. Very few people change their minds, originally, due to argument (or am I wrong?).
Of course, once you begin to examine the evidence, it is easy to see why it requires "faith" to believe. I have actually found that my atheism - despite meaning that I simply lack a belief in any supernatural entities - has encouraged me to explore disciplines that I may not have done otherwise.
This is a great thread, by the way!
Posted by: Damian | February 24, 2008 11:35 PM
Damian: hear, hear! I hadn't thought of it, but you're right. Everyone I know, including myself, was a pretty strong Christian until one moment, when there was an emotional response (much like Ricky Gervais describes).
I'm going to bed with very deep thoughts tonight. Thank you. :D
Posted by: Holydust | February 24, 2008 11:39 PM
Holydust,
I wouldn't apologize for your experience with Wicca. I was raised by two hippies who abandoned their traditional beliefs for a New Age view of the world. They entertained some strange beliefs, but I wouldn't trade my colorful upbringing for anything else. Although I have worked to make my views on religion as informed and intelligent as I can, the truth is my atheism is as much a result of my personality as anything. I was raised to be creative, compassionate and sincere.
In the end, my parents raised two children who grew up to become happy atheists.
Posted by: Tony Popple | February 24, 2008 11:40 PM
I've only rarely heard deconversion stories from my fellow atheists, so I'd say, no, it's not a common element. It usually comes up not by introduction, but when we're discussing our religious context -- people who have been brought up Catholic vs. Lutheran vs. Baptist do have different social histories, you know.
I actually find it difficult to describe myself as ever being a True Theist. I was more a religious-attendee-by-default. I lost what little faith I had as an adolescent when I first thought critically about my religion, prompted by my confirmation classes.
Posted by: PZ Myers | February 24, 2008 11:41 PM
In my experience, de-conversion stories do tend to come up in explicitly atheist get-togethers and conventions -- mostly because it makes no sense to spend all that money, rent a room, and maybe even fly across the country to meet up with other atheists -- and then discuss politics, health insurance, gas prices, car repair, children, and food. You can get that crap at home, from your Christian friends.
Posted by: Sastra | February 24, 2008 11:47 PM
my mom was the first in her family to marry a non-catholic, and my dad was the first in his family to marry a non-jew. by the time they met they were happy atheists and raised our family to freely choose...unsurprisingly my two brothers and I are also atheists and haven't really experienced a 'deconversion.' I love reading these stories because they give hope, but also I'm fascinated by what exactly it is that triggers the change in people. is it beliefs they can't explain or defend? catching a religious figure in a lie? the truth seems so obvious that it is very difficult to pinpoint what caused the revelation (hehehe), but tactically/politically speaking it is also extremely useful to understand that moment and the process in general. what qualities of mind or character must be present?
Posted by: Jake | February 24, 2008 11:49 PM
Those who believe life has no meaning without God are probably living lives that have no meaning without their belief in God. Those who believe Man cannot be moral without God are probably incapable of living their own lives morally without fear of God. Their beliefs say much about them, and nothing about the rest of us.
With that said, I'm still oddly sad about having just gone through my first Christmas with a fully conscious self-awareness of not believing in the divinity of Christ. Maybe I have a Jesus-shaped hole... No, not quite. It's more like a "Magic-of-Christmas-shaped hole." I dunno.
One funny thing happened around that time, though. I was having lunch with a guy I met at work, and we were talking about all sorts of things, including Christmas, and I could see he was heading somewhere with his conversation when he kinda stopped and said, "But... I don't want to offend you..." I encouraged him to continue, so he admitted that he was an atheist, and I assured him that that was ok. :-)
Posted by: Kseniya | February 24, 2008 11:59 PM
I wonder when people de-convert if they usually go to atheism or agnosticism. After de-converting I was an agnostic for a long time before I became an atheist. I think it was just hard to let go even though I knew rationally what I had been taught in Sunday School didn't make sense. At the time somehow the middle ground of agnosticism seemed "safer".
Posted by: Sam | February 25, 2008 12:15 AM
I can thank my zealous youth pastor for my atheism.
For me, the deconversion was initially gradual. I don't remember how it started; but I do remember how it ended. When I was about 9, I believed warmly and fuzzily in the god of the gaps.
Of course, I didn't know it was called that then; but I thought evolution and scientists in general were right; but I knew they hadn't explained everything and every question answered would uncover more questions to ask and this would continue forever.
All of this god business at church seemed a little weird; but I thought I would 'get it' with age.
And then I joined a church-based youth group. All was fine for the first few weeks. We watched videos. We played soccer. And then we were supposed to discuss our relationship with god. And then I told our pastor I believed in evolution; but that God had guided it. Fortunately for me, our pastor was no moderate. Oh no, I was told, the Earth was created in seven days. I was unimpressed. I was shown a bible verse 'about dinosaurs' (I think Daniel 7:3; but it was a long time ago). I was even less impressed.
The contrast between the detailed pictures of Dinosaurs that science had shown me, and this vague dusty line in a difficult to read book boggled my mind. You expect me to believe this is the truth?
Dinosaurs or god, that was the choice presented to me. For the whole evening, he lectured me. I was not a brave child. I was very shy and being the centre of attention like this was very overwhelming; and I quietly agreed so I could make my escape. I asked my mom not to take me back, and to her credit she never mentioned it again.
And I stopped believing in my god of gaps.
Posted by: CBM | February 25, 2008 12:16 AM
I was raised without much of a religious background but weakly identified as Christian in elementary school out of a sense that I had to be something. By high school my eyes had opened to the wider world of atheism and agnosticism and firmly identified as the latter.
When I joined the Army I actually tried to convert to Christianity, mostly out of pressure from my peers and superiors. I even went to one of those giant Texas mega-churches. The services were hokey and the live music was just sad. I could never shake the feeling that everyone around me was desperately faking a their faith in order to impress the people sitting next to them. I always ended up feeling embarrassed for everyone.
In the end, the Christians in my unit ostracized me after catching me reading Matt Groening's "The Big Book of Hell" It was kind of a relief, actually
Posted by: tintenfisch | February 25, 2008 12:18 AM
With that said, I'm still oddly sad about having just gone through my first Christmas with a fully conscious self-awareness of not believing in the divinity of Christ. Maybe I have a Jesus-shaped hole... No, not quite. It's more like a "Magic-of-Christmas-shaped hole." I dunno.
It's interesting you mention that. This was the first Christmas I haven't had a grandparent. My last grandmother died near Thanksgiving, so Christmas time wasn't a lot of celebrating. My sister, parents, and I still managed to have a very nice time talking about times in our family's past that we had particularly enjoyed. We cooked and ate together. Although it was odd in that we didn't even talk to other relatives on the phone that day (it wasn't a "happy" day in the usual sense), we did have an enjoyable time being together in ways that we haven't always.
But lord did it get boring as the week went along. Too quiet. Couldn't sleep.
Posted by: MAJeff | February 25, 2008 12:19 AM
I got lucky. I was raised by "seculars" in a non-Christian tradition that was all about traditional form for the sake of the elders. NO one would ever pull you aside and question you harshly about "belief". Yes, you screw a mezuza on the doorframe of your house and your aunt espies on her visit. When you put it there you have remembrance of "people" history and a the act is a joining into it.
My Community now is a U-U Church and I crafted the membership to protect my children from authoritarian predators. We (the UU congregation) "hatched" a Reconstructionist havurah; the JCC "hatched" a Unitarian Fellowship. Humanist evangelization really continues.
Thank ALL of you for your testimony! This is, indeed, another Community!
Posted by: Skeptic8 | February 25, 2008 12:20 AM
Mine was pretty simple - no deprogramming needed. My dad was raised very Catholic - Catholic school through his freshman year in HS. When I was old enough to understand that we never went to church, he explained that if I wanted to go, he'd take me but he wasn't going to force it upon me. I didn't but I'd go with my grandma on occasion to make her happy but it never made a lot of sense to me. My dad's view was pretty tainted by his forced Catholic upbringing and I'm sure he's pretty happy I never asked him to take me but I appreciated the fact that he'd allow me to decide for myself.
I'd read the Bible and tried to understand it but even in junior high, it never really made sense to me nor did it seem to add anything to my life. Like anything else, there have been a lot of great things done in the name of religion, and a lot of terrible things done in the name of religion.
Posted by: Dr. J | February 25, 2008 12:24 AM
Surely you're aware that Christians will simply say that was too easy a leap for him. That Ricky was always a bad atheist making up a story of a good Christian childhood, only to make up another story about how he "fell". I can see them saying, "naw, that one doesn't count."
I personally could care less of course, and Ricky will care less of the Christians who think he's destined for the 9th level. But I will say it was a bit too abrupt. More elaboration please. It just seemed like the story was "I was a believer, and then I wasn't. The end."
Posted by: BlueIndependent | February 25, 2008 12:43 AM
I don't think I ever believed. The closest thing to a deconversion story I have is deciding not to go to a Lutheran Elementary school that was literally right behind my house. I remember my Dad telling me I'd been accepted, going over looking into one of the classroom windows, and seeing the big dead naked guy hanging on the wall. I told my Dad I didn't want go, and spent an Idaho school year, snow and all, walking to my first grade class at a public school at least half a mile a way.
My loss of faith in Santa was far more traumatic. When what you've wanted with all your eight year old heart was a Batcave playset and the last present you opened was a Planet of the Apes playset, acringleism sets in pretty quickly.
Posted by: Ego, Egoing, Egone | February 25, 2008 12:58 AM
I was raised as an atheist so I missed the thrill of deconversion.
We belonged to the Unitarian Church (kind of) because my Mum always said we needed somebody to marry us and somebody to bury us.
I went to Sunday school there once - learned about Buddha, Confucius and Jesus that day. Interesting, we had to draw pictures of them. I was about 6, maybe. Didn't get around to going back.
Sometimes I strain to imagine what it must be like to believe there's a god/being/something that has a plan and worries about me, even though we've never met. I think it's an abdication of responsibility, probably why it's quite popular.
Posted by: Caveat | February 25, 2008 1:00 AM
All the things Ricky says are gloriously true, but he does not touch on one aspect dear to my heart.
When God suddenly disappeared from my radar, I was grateful. But I was stunned to find that the entire realm of the supernatural disappeared along with him. Gone were the ghosts and ghouls of childhood, the witches and vampires in the night, that whole cesspool of devils and evil spirits that had somehow grown in my mind. Satan and his minions vanished in a flash; the souls of the dead were finally laid to rest; this was my universe again.
I am older now, but that feeling of liberation is still with me every single day, and I am grateful for it.
Posted by: June | February 25, 2008 1:01 AM
June, that comment makes me feel pretty sure that somewhere, somehow, Carl Sagan is smiling down on you. ;-)
Posted by: Kseniya | February 25, 2008 1:11 AM
"I no longer needed a reason for my existence, just a reason to live. And imagination, free will, love, humor, fun, music, sports, beer, and pizza are all good enough reasons for living."
A-freaking-men, Ricky. This is a point lost on so many of our most recent trolls. I'm starting to think they must have a lack of ability to enjoy this world if they have to tie their happiness and worth to something not of this world.
Posted by: Rey Fox | February 25, 2008 1:24 AM
"evolution--a theory so simple and obvious..."
Apparently not to Ray Comfort. Can't wait for his new book on evolution.
http://raycomfortfood.blogspot.com/2008/02/evolution-debate.html
Posted by: Eric | February 25, 2008 1:30 AM
Ray Comfort - taking the art of shifting burdens to new
highslows.Posted by: Ichthyic | February 25, 2008 1:34 AM
You do realize chance has no causal power don't you?
Posted by: Alan | February 25, 2008 1:41 AM
Perhaps Dawkins is just what the USA needs!
The experiences retailed here, and thank you all, suggest that the 'natural' state of humans is rational. So many reject the dragons of the night! A poster observed that some congregants played a "more believer than you" game in authoritarian churches. Seeking solace in a conviction that they can't really believe? Does this explain the virulence of fundamentalism? They fault everyone for the demons that bedevil themselves. They envy the freedom that you have claimed and exercise for they regret their loss? Pity them. Your courage is a Human claim on your existence.
Posted by: Skeptic8 | February 25, 2008 1:42 AM
You do realize chance has no causal power don't you?
so statistics are useless, then, eh?
who knew.
Posted by: Ichthyic | February 25, 2008 1:43 AM
hey, Alan, not for nothing, but somehow I don't think you're going to get many people round these parts feeling compelled to donate towards your education at Seminary school.
LOL
Posted by: Ichthyic | February 25, 2008 1:48 AM
Born & raised christian, choirboy and everything - Grandparents strong southern baptist. Growing up we went to a variety of churches: Baptist, Methodist and Presbyterian. Even spent a year in Catholic Boy's School (9th grade).
Beginning of the end for me was in Bible school at presbyterian church - maybe 10 years old - Teacher said we had to believe in Jesus to go to heaven. It occured to me, what about all the good people who never heard about Jesus? So I asked what about all of them and was told that they would burn in hell. My BS meter pegged out and even though over the decades since I tried, It just wasn't going to work. Like many here I identified as "nominal Christian" even tried C.S. Lewis' "Mere Chrisitanity" route - then new age flim flam - spiritual seeker thing, then un-beliveing agnostic. Finally, a couple years ago I began to be concerned about the growth of the christian taliban and realized that there was nothing left to hold on to and have been "officially" atheist (and content about it) ever since. Interestingly my brother and sister have come to different conclusions - Sister is an Antiochian Orthodox Christian and my brother converted to LDS (Mormon) church. Mom still prays for me and suggests that I find a "church home" and I just smile and say thanks.
Today I went for a long hike - beautiful blue-sky winter day. Sat with my dog on the mountainside with a mini-bottle of wine and thought about how lucky I am to exist in a universe that has such incredible wonders. Life is a miracle that doesn't need god to be great - have to agree with MAJeff!
All the best from Alaska!
Posted by: AKDave | February 25, 2008 1:50 AM
Hey, Alan -
if chance has no causal power, how do explain something simple like the likelihood I will hit heads or tails on a coin flip?
you might try thinking before you speak.
meh, who am I kidding.
Posted by: Ichthyic | February 25, 2008 1:50 AM
The other nice thing about having not been raised with religion filling your head is that you also aren't raised with the prejudices inherent in religion.
In my family no mention of religion was ever made, negative or positive. For once my dad's passive attitude was a benefit - he didn't want to say a word about it one way or the other and let me come to my own conclusions.
Of course I was raised in a culture where religious meant "good," seeing appreciative parents smiling upon their praying kids in TV and amongst my friends. one night I decided I would get my parents' approval (something I was always trying for) by mentioning how I had to "say my prayers" before bedtime.
Nothing. No response whatsoever. No approval, no disapproval, not a word or an acknowledgment that I had said anything. Alone in my bedroom, disappointed but feeling committed to the task because I didn't want to be a liar, I tried "praying" for about ten seconds before quitting, feeling like an idiot and understanding how stupid praying was.
Because of this kind of upbringing I was totally unaware of the bigotry and baggage that comes with religion. Though I'd heard of the holocaust, I didn't discover the prejudice towards Jews and the stereotypes of them until I was in my 20s. It mystified me. Didn't discover the prejudice towards Catholics until even later.
When I was 7 some friends mentioned that a family on the block were Jews. I asked what that meant. "They don't believe in Jesus."
I shrugged. "Neither do I," I thought, though I gathered there was something more to Jewishness than that.
I didn't discover that my dad was an atheist until my late teens, and I didn't discover that my mom WASN'T an atheist until I was over 30.
Posted by: Craig | February 25, 2008 2:11 AM
I was 8 years old, too. My younger cousin told me that Santa Claus wasn't real. I asked my mother, and she told me the truth about Santa.
Me: So Santa's not real?
Her: No, it's just me and your dad.
Me: This means the Easter Bunny's not real either.
Her: No, he's not real.
Me: Tooth Fairy?
Her: *shakes head*
Me: God, too?
Her: No, honey, God's real!
If I'd had the vocabulary I have now, I'd have called Bullshit on her.
Posted by: MandyDax | February 25, 2008 2:18 AM
I had my semi-deconversion at 8 or 9. I remember wondering why my parents said they believed. I would go to church and hear a 'fire-and-brimstome' preacher (who much later resigned after his infidelity became general knowledge) stating something to the effect: 'God has written it in their hearts.' I wondered, the love of god is not written on my heart. Then I was forced to watch a Billy Grahm crusade where he stated: 'good works do not matter. You must accept Christ in your heart or you will face eternal damnation.' That evening I went to my room to continue reading a Life Natural Library book: The Wonders of Life on Earth. Two things struch me. First, at the beginning of a chapter entitled The Old People, there was a picture of an aged Navajo man. I wondered, had he heard Billy Grahm? Second, I flipped to the chapter: The Mystery of Heredity and there was this picture of variation in birdwinged butterflies of New Guinea and I simultaniously realized that people of that Island had not heard Billy Grahm and they were going to hell for no other reason than being born in the wrong place. My childish reaction: THAT's NOT FAIR!! I have been a non-theist ever since.
More than 40 years later, I am amazed at how well my childhood assertion holds up. Perhaps the single most unifying yet underlying theme of at least Abrahamic religions is that they are manifestly 'not fair.'
Much later, in converstions with behavioral ecologist, he pointed out an additional objection. If there were a 'limbo' i.e. a place where the spiritually uninformed could avoid hellfire after death, then, by spreading the word, one is automatically consigning some additional souls to never ending suffering which would otherwise not be there. I kick myself for never having had that idea- but, until the virulent creos started showing up with increasing frequency in my life, I had spent zero time on additional religious musings.
Posted by: mothra | February 25, 2008 2:40 AM
Sadly, I feel kind of ripped off that I never had a real "de-conversion moment." I was brought up by very agnostic parents, but we were still big into the holiday ceremonies, went to temple three weeks each month (my dad wanting to skip out on the more annoying "family" service), and I got very much into the old biblical takes from the Torah.
Now being brought up as a Reform Jew itself is pretty liberal, but we did have a fairly conservative Rabbi who was much into tale-telling as well, so I really got into it. (The man remains one of the best orators I've ever heard.) Not in the way that an evangelist might "get into it," but simply into the coolness of the biblical events--mainly in Genesis and Exodus.
Of course, at the same time I ALSO got very much into Star Blazers, the Thundercats, Transformers, and at the tender age of seven, got personally involved in that most Jack Chick-feared of hobbies... DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS! Why? Because it was just so cool! (And since I'd been given access to the Hobbit by my mother, who'd already read it to me each year since I was five--and I was about to read LotR myself shortly thereafter--it was as close as I could get to Tolkien mythology.)
You can probably see where I'm going with this, but I basically got invested in mythology of all sorts, started reading fantasy like a demon, and... well... just grew to realize that I enjoyed them them all in the exact same way I did anything biblical. (Especially after I got into comics; I also had some illustrated Torah volumes that I would read repeatedly, because it was just cool.)
I still enjoyed the ceremony of services to a degree--and the family holidays themselves much more--but pretty much everything on the matter slid into the same category I treated mythology from all the other sources, whether it be Greek, Tolkien, or TSR. I never even noticed the "sliding" to think about it... it just happened without my ever paying attention.
...you see, though? I was denied my "moment!" *snf*
Posted by: cthellis | February 25, 2008 3:33 AM