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PZ Myers is a biologist and associate professor at the University of Minnesota, Morris.
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Category: Communicating science
Posted on: February 9, 2008 2:46 PM, by PZ Myers
Pharyngula commenter SteadyEddy has uploaded his audio recording of the Rue-Myers discussion. It's about 22M, so I'm still downloading it…but there it is. Thanks to SteadyEddy!
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Comments
It appears to be incomplete and quality is not very good :(
Any chance for full talk or transcript?
Posted by: Alex Besogonov | February 9, 2008 3:53 PM
Both speakers continue the tradition of the same mistake made so often by both believers and secularists, which is that religion "causes" things such as morality or (as suggested by Rue) art. Religion does not cause morality or art. Humans have both an innate moral sense and an innate esthetic impulse. Both will appear in a culture regardless of the ideological context of the group of people. Morality and art will be expressed in religious terms when they occur in a religious context, but they are not caused by religion. Certainly some religious groups have crude and antiquated moral systems. But that is due to the unsophisticated way the people think, not to their religion. I am very liberal and an atheist, but there are many theistic people who have moral values equivalent to mine.
Posted by: Tim Tesar | February 9, 2008 4:06 PM
SOMEONE PLEASE VOLUNTEER TO STEADYEDDY AND HELP FIX THE AUDIO QUALITY AND COMPRESSION!
I'm sure here are some people who could do it.
The file that's now available for download is 8000hz wav file so whoever volunteers would be better off with the original audio file.
Posted by: Becksi | February 9, 2008 4:13 PM
Well, this is what I get for commenting before I finish listening to the discussion. Later on, Rue does mention his interest in the sociobiology of morality. And one of the commenters makes this point also. And I appreciate that PZ acknowledges the tendency of our minds to anthropomorphize.
I disagree with the strong claim of the anthropologist questioner that morality is a totally social construct. This kind of claim is not unusual in anthropology, but not universally accepted by others, such as some psychologists, particularly evolutionary psychologists.
On the other hand, I criticize the so-called "new atheists" because they seem to have focused so much on their science education that they overlooked psychology, sociology, history, anthropology. Sure, theistic beliefs are silly from the point of view of modern knowledge, but we should also ask ourselves about and appreciate the processes and history that led to people having the beliefs they have.
Posted by: Tim Tesar | February 9, 2008 4:57 PM
Tim @ #2 You make a realistic point of theistic people
having moral values equivalent to yours. That is the
point that I have been deigning to put across for some time. If both people have equivalent moral values, and
the atheist has no need of religion, then why does the
religionist feel the need for the unnecessary baggage of
religion, knowing that your morals are equivalent to his?
Which in a sense cancels out religion's constant tenet
that morals are not inherent in the godless. I have no
doubt who is the more stable individual, and yet the
religionists cannot reason otherwise. It is just a matter
of religion clouding a clear concept and yet feeling
superior to the atheist who has no need for that totally
unnecessary and useless crutch.
Posted by: Holbach | February 9, 2008 6:40 PM
Ugh, the recording quality and style makes me want to punch infants. I wish i knew where all this was going down so i could get stereo CD quality recordings for archival purposes. Anyone want to pay my airfare? I'm a professional Sound Engineer! :-D
Posted by: genewitch | February 9, 2008 6:50 PM
First, we gave 'em Eurodisney and, now, this:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080209/ap_on_re_eu/europe_evolution_under_attack
This reverse migration of cultures is awesome.
Posted by: raindogzilla | February 9, 2008 7:01 PM
At least Europe has better media in some aspects; they give their people a chance to learn.
Check out today's issue of The Guardian which contains a celebration of Darwin.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/darwinbicentenary
Too bad we don't see anything like this here.
Posted by: Anonymoustache | February 9, 2008 7:51 PM
Is this confict free? Or is this like the debate with the creobot?
Posted by: Moses | February 9, 2008 8:12 PM
Yeah, I know it's not very good quality. I did it on a whim on my Sandisk Sansa m250 mp3 player. This little gadget is a cheap ipod knockoff with AM/FM and a voice recording feature... more for making vocal notes, probably not meant to record dialoge within a big room. I didn't even think about recording it until a few minutes into the talk. I figured something was better than nothing- so I uploaded it. If you can't stand a crappy recording, don't take the time to download it. It's about 95 minutes long. I uploaded the original on PZ's link... so that's as good as mine gets. I think the Campus Atheists and Secular Humanist (CASH) folks (who sponsored the talk) recorded it an will be posting it on their website (maybe, sometime).
Posted by: SteadyEddy | February 9, 2008 8:26 PM
your bookmark isnt working.
Posted by: the_Astrocreep | February 9, 2008 9:06 PM
Link to 32kB/s mp3 version. I wasn't able to get the file size any smaller, but I normalized the audio. Hopefully it sounds a little better.
http://www.badongo.com/file/7716682
Posted by: Corey | February 9, 2008 10:42 PM
Thanks, SteadyEddy. It's listenable and far better than no recording at all.
Posted by: Grammar RWA | February 9, 2008 11:36 PM
For those who are struggling with this I recommend altering the graphic equalizer, as well as using a set of head phones, if possible.
I always use head phones to watch movies, play video games, and listen to debates on the computer.
Call of Duty is simply stunning when your ears are focused solely on the bullets flying past your head!
Posted by: Damian | February 9, 2008 11:38 PM
How the hell does one download the file? I see no hotlink.
Posted by: Strider | February 10, 2008 12:19 PM