…and this is a 
Salt of the earth
Category: Religion
Posted on: February 18, 2008 7:32 PM, by PZ Myers
Perhaps you thought that glossolalic freak I highlighted the other day is unrepresentative of religious attitudes in America. How about these people, though?
They're probably good, decent people who care about their families, but listen to what they are saying — they are picking a president on the basis of his dedication to the Bible. They are advocating a foreign policy based on biblical prophecy. They measure patriotism by whether someone "worships" (interesting slip, there) the flag and Jesus. They parrot lies, such as that Obama is planning to be sworn in on the Koran.
Like I said, probably good people…but the whole problem here is that their brains have been poisoned by religion, a lying, dishonest, corrupting religion that has turned them into deluded fools. Lay the blame for this criminal distortion of human minds right at the feet of religious belief.
Oh, and lest anyone think I'm not an equal opportunity rejecter of religion—be entertained by this Iraqi kook who thinks the earth is flat. Blame that idiocy on religion, too.
Comments
Oh my! I don't even know where to begin with this quartet. It's just so ... wrong!
Posted by: cwnidog | February 18, 2008 7:53 PM
Not too far from where I work. The Southern states may be the last area on the planet to be secularized...even if the world declared tomorrow that the Bible was proven bullshit. What the fuck does religion have to do with corn pudding and fried pork anyway?
Posted by: danleyj@gmail.com | February 18, 2008 7:53 PM
She wants a man who will stand behind his word because he believes in god. Yeah, we see where that got us with Bush. He sure stood behind his word, didn't he?
Posted by: Ric | February 18, 2008 7:59 PM
The Bible on pork:
"And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you." [Leviticus 11:7-8]
"And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you. Ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcass." [Deuteronomy 14:8]
Yet Genesis, that you take literally. *heavy sigh*
Posted by: J | February 18, 2008 8:00 PM
Ignorance knows no race, creed, color, sex, or nationality.
Posted by: The Silent Observer | February 18, 2008 8:02 PM
I'm starting to see a corellation between kooky beliefs to how thick your drawl is. ;)
Posted by: Brando | February 18, 2008 8:02 PM
It is much worse. The Xian Dominionist faction runs around 10-20% of our population. Anyone who voted for Huckabee for sure. Looking at up to 60 million people who want a theocracy.
This would destroy the USA of course. Theocracy got a bad name centuries ago as a singularly bloody minded dysfunctional way to run things. We call that era the Dark Ages for good reasons. Today in the world we have theocracies in Iran, Sudan, Somalia, Afghanistan, and Texas. Who in the hell wants to live in those places?
Posted by: raven | February 18, 2008 8:03 PM
For me this is the single most depressing video you've shown yet. I am all too familiar with this mindset, and I know that it is pervasive in much of the country. You will hear exactly the same thing from Michigan to Florida. The message that we need to get right with God is pounded relentlessly into their brains, and anything and everything is proof that we are living in the end times and the rapture could happen at anytime. They live in fear and subservience, and they are taught to be happy about it. They won't do any investigation beyond information they are spoon fed, and once they have gotten together in a group and prayed to Jesus about something, their minds are pretty much closed. It is as fascinating as it is disgusting. The only thing rational people can hope for is to outnumber them.
Posted by: RamblinDude | February 18, 2008 8:03 PM
The biggest problem with religion is that it spouts outright lies, which is painfully obvious when you look at the nonsense these two at the beginning believe. I suppose it's easier to make things up when you know that your followers will let you lead them around by the nose than to actually have a consistent, rational position.
I still think we need a bag limit on stupid people. You can kill a maximum of 5 stupid people per week, but you've got to be able to justify your kills. Might clean up the gene pool. ;)
Posted by: Cephus | February 18, 2008 8:05 PM
And of course with an accuracy of predictability the Bible can only envy the familiar "In God We Trust" motto was brought up as supportive proof positive that WE Americans trust in OUR God and in OUR Bible and those OTHER people who don't worship OUR God can just go some other place than OUR country which is, of course, America, in which WE Americans all trust in GOD.
"Ceremonial Deism" my ass.
Posted by: Sastra | February 18, 2008 8:09 PM
Kinda feel bad for 'em...especially the girl...so completely indoctrinated that you no longer have any contact with reality
Posted by: Jeremy | February 18, 2008 8:15 PM
I don't think they're good people at all. They're just brainless hicks who are so far out of touch with reality that they can barely even function in the world. All they seem to know is whatever hatred their kind and loving god supposedly tells them is fine and dandy.
Seriously. How "good" do you think this collection of people would be if Senator Obama showed up at their door one day?
Posted by: Dan | February 18, 2008 8:15 PM
Cephus
5? wow, I'll have to be more selective next time... I only hope all the extra people that I don't target get picked off by someone else. Must be a slow acting plan you are working on ;)
Posted by: Thomas | February 18, 2008 8:18 PM
In a recent post on Expelled, I repeated Catholic claims that link Creationism with idol-worship.
Likewise for "Iraqi kook" -- mainstream Islam does not stop at the Koran, but includes the Hadith and doesn't rule out ideas not in either. Even in Saudi Arabia, the religious police segregate men and women in motor vehicles, they don't outlaw motor vehicles because they weren't mentioned in the Koran.
Information theory (ala Shannon, not ID kooks) tells us that a finite text only has a finite number of bits, and cannot act as a oracle to all the questions over a billion people might have in a lifetime.
It should not take atheists to point out that scriptural literalism makes religious people more stupid than other religious people.
Posted by: rpenner | February 18, 2008 8:22 PM
Profound ignorance without the mitigation of even a scintilla of doubt. There people are so ill-informed that they have to struggle to come up with the name of Senator Obama, whom they can't distinguish from Rep. Ellison, the one Muslim member of Congress. And they "know" things because one of their church members keeps track of such matters for them. How? With his head up his ass and Fox News blaring away full blast?
I wish I could say these people don't remind me of my family.
Posted by: Zeno | February 18, 2008 8:24 PM
Thank goodness Huckabee will never win.
Posted by: Lucas Cantor | February 18, 2008 8:25 PM
Oh, I also enjoyed the video on the Koran Fanatic. 'Anything not directly based on the Koran is false.' I wonder if he believes in cancer...
Posted by: Thomas | February 18, 2008 8:28 PM
It was nice of them to fix him a traditional End Times lunch
Posted by: CleveDan | February 18, 2008 8:30 PM
Please don't talk about violence against these kinds of people -- we're probably talkng about half the country. And I really do think that these are decent people, EXCEPT that religion has taken a basic desire to be good and to support family and community and subverted it into a nightmarish advocacy of dogma and stupidity, effectively harming those they want to help.
Their motives are good. Their premises are false. This is why we have to oppose religious ideas, not religious people.
Posted by: PZ Myers | February 18, 2008 8:31 PM
But are these theists really all that goofier than an unreconstructed Marxist-Leninist, an ultra-libertarian anarcho-capitalist, or a non-theist white supremacist eugenicist?
Posted by: Colugo | February 18, 2008 8:32 PM
"But are these theists really all that goofier than an unreconstructed Marxist-Leninist, an ultra-libertarian anarcho-capitalist, or a non-theist white supremacist eugenicist?"
Who cares?
Let me know when one of them is running for President.
Posted by: spurge | February 18, 2008 8:36 PM
Hate to say it, but my immediate family is exactly like that (without the accents), and they've only become that way in the last eight years. My hardcore brother would not let them see the grandkids unless they demonstrated some serious zealotry (a very effective means of blackmail, BTW). Now my mother can't say two sentences without mentioning God in it somewhere. Needless to say, an evil godless infidel like myself has been disinherited. Nothing I can do, except maybe get a lobotomy and join them.
Posted by: jeff | February 18, 2008 8:37 PM
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups" - George Carlin
"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, good people will do good things, and bad people will do bad things. But for good people to do bad things, it takes religion" - Steven Weinberg
I can't improve on that....
Posted by: brian | February 18, 2008 8:43 PM
And I'm supposed to believe that God created these people in His image?
Posted by: Bill from Dover | February 18, 2008 8:43 PM
Raven (#7):
Today in the world we have theocracies in Iran, Sudan, Somalia, Afghanistan, and Texas. Who in the hell wants to live in those places?
Why do you say Somalia is a theocracy? There's not enough structure in Somalia to have a theocracy, or any other kind of -ocracy. Somalia proper (excluding Puntland and Somaliland) is pretty much in a state of warlordism with a bit of anarchy thrown in.
No list of theocracies can be complete without mentioning Israel and Saudi Arabia.
Posted by: Vagrant | February 18, 2008 8:47 PM
Are eyeglasses in the Koran?
Posted by: MAJeff | February 18, 2008 8:48 PM
For a moment, I thought that zoom-in at the beginning would land in Huntsville, Alabama, where I grew up.
Posted by: Blake Stacey | February 18, 2008 8:50 PM
My family is just like these people, as well, and became that way far more than 8 years ago, unfortunately. I escaped the asylum in my late 20s, but had to choose between my family (including 10 young and brainwashed nieces and nephews) and real life.
I made the decision and have not seen my family since 2001, but every day it becomes more and more clear that I made the right choice. There was no hope of saving them--I could save only myself.
Posted by: cureholder | February 18, 2008 8:51 PM
Gee whiz, I'm glad I live in Canada!
Also, look at these tentacle chandeliers!
Posted by: Kieran | February 18, 2008 8:53 PM
You look but do not see. These are folks whose lives will always be at the bottom economic rung. The only thing that allows them to endure is their faith. Just as our slaves hoped for better days, so do they.
The young girl used the only patois she knows. She dissed Bush with it. I'll take progress where I can.
Huckabee is nominally one of them. You don't snipe at blacks for voting Obama or women for voting Hillary. Huck also has a better record for their group than others that ran.
Posted by: Mold | February 18, 2008 8:54 PM
I, too, have relatives like this. Last saw them at my Grandmother's funeral over Thanksgiving. Hopefully, I won't see them again. I remember my uncle going off against evolution when I was in elementary school and working on a science project. I didn't do well on the assignment--and I deserved not to. Thankfully, my acceptance of his nonsense didn't last. Dad, a HS biology teacher and then veterinarian wouldn't let me get away without accepting evolution either (and he really enjoyed the copy of "Your Inner Fish" I bought for him--it was basically a primer on the field since he's left college).
It's not just a Southern thing. My relatives are in NW Iowa.
Heck, my sister, a United Methodist minister, got in a bit of trouble--in Minnesota, and only an hour from the Twin Cities--with her congregation for accepting evolution (and pre-marital sex, and homosexuality)....now she works as a hospital chaplain. This is one of those good people, bad idea things PZ's talking about. I respect the work my sister does, providing comfort for sick and dying people and their families. I just wish that they, and she, didn't need to rely on fairy tales to do so.
Posted by: MAJeff | February 18, 2008 8:59 PM
Remember, nobody can disprove the theory that it's all intentional. Whatever happens,
"I meant to do that"
-- God
-- My cat
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2229/2233310665_ee4aba928c_m.jpg
Posted by: Hank Roberts | February 18, 2008 9:00 PM
MIKE HUCKABEE is the candidate America deserves!!!
Posted by: Rob | February 18, 2008 9:07 PM
Am I a terrible person when I think that that girls accent marks her for life as an ignorant hick? I'm sorry, I usually don't discriminate like that, but please, she sounds the the stereotypical inbred mouth-breather who still flies the Confederate Flag.
Posted by: bruce | February 18, 2008 9:08 PM
bruce
Unless you've lived in rural Tennessee and know the people, please shut-up. You are a bigot.
Posted by: Rob | February 18, 2008 9:09 PM
Talk about abomination - these vacant-eyed automatons are utterly disconnected from reality to the point of insanity. The abundance of superstitious 'droids like this gives me great concern for the future, not just of our country, but of the planet.
Posted by: Milo Johnson | February 18, 2008 9:15 PM
The clip from Iraq was quite remarkable -- a genuine debate between two scientists and some guy claiming the earth was flat. Note the serious tone, the solemn rebuttal -- not a whiff of ridicule or scorn. Nothing but respect.
I couldn't help thinking that maybe this is what happens when you "respect the controversy" on evolution. Next thing you know, you're patiently trying to explain that all modern discoveries point to a sun which is quite a bit larger than the earth, and the other guy is insisting that this is all a type of science that he rejects, categorically, and besides, no it's not, you can tell it's not because of what happens when we watch an eclipse, and the moon hides the sun because the moon is the same size. And then the NASA scientist takes his fair turn.
Maybe they should simply "frame" the issue by showing that the Quran does so say the earth is round, and vindicate science that way.
Posted by: Sastra | February 18, 2008 9:15 PM
I'm staunchly opposed to Huckabee's campaign, but let's not forget that Phil Sharp is from Kentucky and E. O. Wilson is from Alabama, just to name two people teaching in my neck of the woods. I do my best to evaluate someone by what comes out of his or her mouth, not by how the words sound.
Posted by: J | February 18, 2008 9:17 PM
We don't have too many fundies on the WC, as many Wiccans and New Agers probably. But there are some. One of our support people is one.
She is pleasant and likeable, a decent human being.
She got pregnant at 15, married at 16, second kid at 17, divorced without child support from a husband her age who ran out and disappeared. Who in the hell wants to be married with 2 kids at...17!!!
And she isn't descended from no monkey, no way. At least she is quiet about her religion around us.
Posted by: raven | February 18, 2008 9:18 PM
You're giving me an ulcer with these videos PZ. I didn't even have the ability to watch this one. How have we as a society allowed this sort of ignorance to replace reason? Most of these people can read and write, they've been to school, they've seen the progress that has been made by science, have generally benefited, and yet they wallow in abject mental poverty and seem to revel in it.
They might be poor (didn't watch the video), but they aren't starving, or living in a hunter-gatherer or sheepherder society where there is no system for explaining natural phenomena other than by invoking Gods.
How the hell did these religious memes become so strong and why are they so destructive?
Posted by: ChemBob | February 18, 2008 9:24 PM
I feel so sorry for that girl. Thing is, it may not be too late for her... its possible that if she had a chance to get away from the indoctrination and the surroundings that she might be salvageable. You can tell she doesn't have the whole shpeil down yet, and there's still a lot of kid just saying what she thinks she needs to say for approval from her family and community.
But it won't happen though, she's doomed.
Posted by: craig | February 18, 2008 9:32 PM
I'm scared, very scared. PZ may call them good people, but I would not want to put that hypothesis to the ultimate test. As an atheist, I believe if my future were in their hands, I'd be toast. There's a cold irrational look in their eyes. And it's scary.
I doubt very much that the religious nuts would return the favor by making such a generous distinction. Their motives are like arcade tokens, they are only good inside the store, a.k.a. the delusional bubble. Any person caught outside is their enemy.
After watching that, I need a drink.
Posted by: MarcusA | February 18, 2008 9:36 PM
The growth of religious fundamentalism in this country paces the growth of poverty and the widening of the gap between the poor and the even just kinda wealthy. When you have nothing, and can get nothing, and people despise you, you look for salvation elsewhere. One of the best ways we could fight this would be to get serious about eradicating poverty, instead of worrying about coddling welfare queens and giving people handouts.
Posted by: The Ridger | February 18, 2008 9:38 PM
Thank you, Barack Obama, and all the other pols who are too chicken shit to stand up to these religious morons, for helping to breed the ignorance that is on display in that depressing video.
Fuck. You. All.
Posted by: CalGeorge | February 18, 2008 9:49 PM
I am so sick of dumb asses with their biblical doom and gloom. Jesus was an important historical figure and I wonder if some of his philosophy helped spark the enlightenment in terms of liberal social values. How he would cringe to see the fundamentalists using him like a cheap ho.
And since you brought up Obama... i'd like to propose that no other candidate is better prepared to face down McCain. No one else can throw down the nasty dunk in McCain's face like Obama.
Posted by: InnerNinja | February 18, 2008 9:49 PM
Brian, how about a little Aristotle?
"A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side."
It's kind of funny how they are all getting their information from some guy or gal instead of watching the news or reading the paper. Unfortunately they seem to have picked the village idiot as their source. Even more unfortunately, the village idiot seems to be getting his or her information from Fox.
Posted by: Mena | February 18, 2008 9:55 PM
For what it's worth, most of the worst stuff these days seems to come from the monotheists. India may not have fully gotten over its caste-system yet, but for the most part the polytheists, deists, and suchlike are far less harmful than the Abrahamic gangs. Strange and deluded, maybe, but less directly harmful. *shrugs*
Posted by: Rachel I. | February 18, 2008 10:09 PM
That cold irrational look in their eyes is the conviction that they are inherently evil, and that so are you.
Posted by: RamblinDude | February 18, 2008 10:10 PM
I just gotta say, here is a representation of the reason a lot of the people in Australia think a lot of Americans are dumbasses.
Posted by: Talen Lee | February 18, 2008 10:11 PM
The Ridger (#43):
It's ironic that you call for 'getting serious about eradicating poverty' while using the 'welfare queen' and 'handout' slurs that were created precisely to justify leaving the poor to rot.
Which is more important to you? Eradicating poverty or maintaining ideological purity through not giving money to those who don't deserve it? You can't pick both.
Posted by: Vagrant | February 18, 2008 10:13 PM
The beginning of the video makes it clear that they're in a church. So why are these three women not silent as the Lord hath commanded?
http://oldpaths.com/Archive/Davison/Roy/Allen/1940/silent.html
http://www.ntrf.org/articles/article_detail.php?PRKey=16
Posted by: Narc | February 18, 2008 10:23 PM
Mena, #46, makes a very good point about these people and those like them. They have a deep need for a patriarchal authority figure to think for them and intercede on their behalf with the Lord God Yahveh. Rev. Huckabee has now been endorsed by Dr. James Dobson of Focus on the Family who is probably behind the conservative backlash against McCain. The lady with the remarks about supporting Israel seems to parrot Dr. James Hagee and Pat Robertson who use this theme to raise loads of $$$ for their "ministries". Their names are Legion.
What we need now are some good serpent-handling and poison-drinking videos to prove their faith.
Posted by: Chemist | February 18, 2008 10:25 PM
Vagrant (#50),
Can't you see his brilliant plan?
Starve all poor people. Poverty eradicated. Taxes reduced. Problem solved.
/sarcasm
Posted by: dead santa | February 18, 2008 10:38 PM
Well the catholics know idolatry better than anyone from the virgin Mary to the Saints.
Posted by: JImC | February 18, 2008 10:39 PM
I find it interesting that she says she wouldn't vote for Clinton as she "suported her husband"...um isn't that EXACTLY what they profess "good" christian women SHOULD do?
Its way to late for the two older women but I think there's hope that the young lass could be unindoctrinated. She's still only parroting what the older two say and obviously can't come up with an answer to anything other than "follow the word". Get her out of that cult and there might be hope for her, leave her there and the church has a new Pastor in twenty years.
Posted by: Bride of Shrek | February 18, 2008 10:42 PM
I think the gentleman in the Iraqi video is doing a great service in exposing the idiocy of literalism in biblical and Koranic interpretation.
Let's hope he gets a daily program making it utterly clear to ordinary citizens that the Koran has little bearing on the lives of thinking people.
Posted by: Jim B | February 18, 2008 10:47 PM
I thought that the US of A had special deprogramming agencies to deal with cults like these.
Posted by: KiwiInOz | February 18, 2008 10:51 PM
MarcusA:
You know what? EVERYONE is "good people."
These people are DANGEROUS because they are CERTAIN and they are IMMUNE to reason. They have absolutely no doubt that they are right, and people who don't doubt that they are right, not just "probably right" but DIVINELY right are capable of the GREATEST evil. If we've learned anything from the 20th century, I would hope it would be that.
These people scare the shit out of me.
Posted by: inkadu | February 18, 2008 11:04 PM
Tengrain has the perfect image to go along with the video of those Hucksters.
Posted by: Connecticut Man1 | February 18, 2008 11:12 PM
I don't understand. What is this "bobble" of which they speak?
Posted by: rcareaga | February 18, 2008 11:27 PM
Wow, that Iraqi man thinks that human eyes actually work like bifocals, with the upper half of the eye used for seeing things far away, and the lower half near. He justifies this by stating that "no scientist has ever figured out how the eye works."
Religion makes people dumber. It isn't just an impediment to an enlightened society, it actively works against intellectual progress. Anyone who can't admit that religion is part of the problem is part of the problem.
Posted by: H. Humbert | February 18, 2008 11:31 PM
"Nationalism is our incest, is our idolatry, our insanity, and patriotism is its cult." ~ Erich Fromm.
... in this case, LITERALLY.
Posted by: Spinoza | February 18, 2008 11:43 PM
Holy fucking shit. TERRIFYING!!
Posted by: blake | February 18, 2008 11:44 PM
Oh, and lest anyone think I'm not an equal opportunity rejecter of religion--be entertained by this Iraqi kook who thinks the earth is flat. Blame that idiocy on religion, too.
The catholicity of your disdain is noted!
Posted by: Scott Hatfield, OM | February 18, 2008 11:45 PM
I know that anti-Science nutjobs are abound in the Muslim world, but I refuse to support those 'tards at MEMRI.
Posted by: Moshe | February 19, 2008 12:09 AM
I was getting ready to dump on Tennessee, but the video reminded me that Tennessee is the home of the Jack Daniel's distillery.
A state that can produce fine sippin' whiskey like JD can't be completely insane...
Posted by: caerbannog | February 19, 2008 12:14 AM
caerbannog,
JD's distillary is in a dry county in Tenn.
If that isn't insane, I don't know what is!?
Posted by: Moshe | February 19, 2008 12:30 AM
I notice this was filmed in Lynchburg Tennessee, where hypocrisy is as inbred as children.
Years ago, some friends and I were hiking through the Smoky Mountains, a miserable week of cold & rain. Around the fire one night we decided to screw it. If we walked down through the night, we could be at our car by morning, and the Jack Daniels distillery in Lynchburg by noon. Visions of a very pleasant afternoon lighted our way down.
Somehow we made it there and dutifully took the distillery tour. Waiting for the part when we'd be seated on a big old porch, and girls in homespun dresses would bring out that fine fine whiskey.
Nope. Towards the end of the tour we're told Lynchburg was in a "dry" county - couldn't serve or sell the firewater, would we like these nice JD t-shirts instead?
Driving back towards NY that night, I thought of what phonies they were. Every father, husband and brother in Lynchburg probably worked at the JD distillery, but it would be immoral to publicly serve or sell the whiskey they made.
The 3 generations of women on this film are no surprise. PZ can be pc, just 'good people making bad choices'. But I bet if you transported them 12,000 miles, they'd be chearing for the beheading of that poor woman accused of witchcraft in Saudi Arabia.
Posted by: Tim | February 19, 2008 12:31 AM
They can say that they'll vote for whoever they want, but at this point they're not influencing the race in the slightest if they're not giving money.
Got any other powerless, unimportant, uneducated, impoverished, marginalized toothless hillbillies to pick on?
What fun.
Posted by: telecom | February 19, 2008 12:34 AM
Jeff, me too.
and Kieran, don't be too glad, I live in Canada too and know lot's of people, family members included, who voted for Stephen Harper strictly on the basis of his religiosity.
Posted by: Norm | February 19, 2008 12:40 AM
After watching this pathetic group of dumb asses and meeing what the U.S. is becoming I am glad that I moved to Europe 9 years ago into a former communist country. The church is here but mostly quiet.During elections for President or the parlimentary elections religion is never mentioned and most people don't give a damn if a candidate has a girl/boy friend or a mistress/lover, as long as he or she does the job. I just hope to hell the fundie nuts stay home and don't come here.I will vote absentee in the coming election and will hope for a change.
Posted by: Ex Partiate | February 19, 2008 12:42 AM
Should have used the other accepted spelling - cheering
Posted by: Tim | February 19, 2008 12:42 AM
Not true. Huckabee's run a better campaign for a lot less money than Romney. These people are organized, make no mistake. They are the achilles heel of democracy.
Posted by: inkady | February 19, 2008 12:43 AM
They are simply people who want to be "good" and have been taught that ONLY certain ideas are to be considered as paths towards this "goodness."
Some, though in a mob nearly all, of them would willingly (part gleefully, part sadly, part mechanically) obey their preachers' orders to boycott my business, abuse my family, even attempt to assume custody of my children. Some, given a gradual enough campaign, would engage in pogroms against people like myself.
This is horrible, sadly human, and the same as it ever was.
One part of these people. told to engage in such actions, would also begin to think about their beliefs, and would revise, even reject, them. There are good people inside many, surprisingly many, of these folks, but the times do not press them to more than childishly fantasize about that spiritual candyland of a Xian nation without coming to grips with exactly how horrid, and how poor, such a place would without the smallest doubt be.
Determined patience and constant vigilance.
Posted by: So Laris | February 19, 2008 12:45 AM
telecom, if you don't think the religious right were responsible for handing the Presidency to George Bush the last 8 years, then you weren't fucking paying attention. They are hardly powerless or unimportant when they can be motivated to vote in large numbers. These people can and do swing elections. But it's picking on them to point out their lunacy "at this point" in the election race? What, should we wait until the race is over? You're an idiot. Whatever scorn is being directed their way is more than deserved. Your sympathy for these people has blinded you to how dangerous their delusions are.
Posted by: H. Humbert | February 19, 2008 12:50 AM
And when I search a faceless crowd
A swirling mass of gray and
Black and white
They don't look real to me
In fact, they look so strange
Posted by: Janine | February 19, 2008 1:09 AM
Poverty. A bit as been said about the connection between it and religious tendencies. And while there may be good evidence to support that position, I would like to insert one small point that should sound dim and common-sensical. Poverty is not causally related to religion. Being poor does not dictate that one will believe, nor of course, does it dictate that if poor and a believer, one cannot change.
If you had taped me as a teenager, with my father watching, perhaps the same sense of hopelessness in the comments would abound. And it would be wrong. Once I was away from my family, I began to learn and have my views challenged even without prominent atheists to bring up the issue.
In short, it is the social reinforcement and enclosure that keeps religion going. But, with the internet, free public schools, and the bare necessities of life being largely provided for in the US, poverty is less and less a deciding factor of what keeps you away from that information as opposed to other countries. Giving this girl a better chance to learn, and maybe get away.
So the doom talk can cease. The chance may be a slim, but thankfully, it is not preordained.
Posted by: Michael X | February 19, 2008 1:33 AM
On a different note, their condemnation of Bush is asinine, and for reasons that should be obvious to them even within the narrow world view that they hold. They judge his failure in Iraq because "he wasn't right with god." But any and every evangelical religious group is fundamentally tied to the idea that we are to only pray that "god's will and not my will be done," as many a family member is so fond of stating. Meaning, god will do whatever the hell he wants no matter how it may upset you (though feel free to pray, it shows him you care...).
In fact when things go rough for the evangelicals I know, they don't jump to assume that they screwed up, on the contrary, the truth is that "god is testing me. I mean hey, you wouldn't be such an asshole to assume that I'm not a good christian would you?" (Well, maybe that last sentence isn't spoken, but it is understood.)
Thus, from their dogma alone, we cannot know Bush's "relationship with god" by only looking into the state that his life is in. It could just as well be that god wants things to work out that way "for some higher purpose." God works in mysterious ways last I heard. (Though I'm sure god is much less mysterious when everything works out your way.) Not to mention, Job would have to be condemned for the same catastrophes in his story. And if Job isn't the standard bearer of every christian in hard times, (aside from maybe Jesus being beaten) then I dunno who is.
But of course, this all too reasonable. They don't condemn Bush because he failed god, they condemn Bush because he failed them.
Posted by: Michael X | February 19, 2008 2:07 AM
PHARYNGULA COMMENTS BOILERPLATE
*snickers* [Insert snarky stuff about Bush/Cheney, Fox News, Limbaugh, etc.; make joke about 'teh internets'.]
Bwahahahaha! ...Ben Stein ...Expelled! ...[fucktard, creotard, nutter, asshat, tinfoilhat, IDiot, muppet, tosser,fundie,nutjob, pig-ignorant] ...Gobsmacked ...Bukkaked by Stupid ...it burns!
[Relay personal anecdote about Christian roots to boost your blog-cred!]
...She turned me into a newt! ...Gravity is 'just a theory', too! ...Blah blah blah TruthTM yada yada Riding
around Eden on dinosaurs! Hahaha! IMHO, snark snark snark FSM. rAmen! BTW, ...mitochondria blah blah
...powerhouse blah of blah blah the cell. Denialist!
[Insert Cephalotard haiku]
[Punish random troll, sockpuppet, or poor speller]
[Insert hyperlink/hypertext to funny atheist video]
[Write serious comment with concrete suggestions about how to address the perceived problem (Optional)]
[Get reamed by truthmachine]
Posted by: ennui, OMygawd | February 19, 2008 2:09 AM
I live in Australia & there are plenty of dumbasses like those in the video here too. Maybe you just haven't met any of them yet :)
Posted by: bassmanpete | February 19, 2008 2:12 AM
Inkady, I don't agree with a single thing the people in this video said, but I didn't hear anything about their being opposed to open and competitive elections or representative government. Just because somebody has different (or even profoundly ignorant) ideas doesn't meant that they are "the achilles heel of democracy." Just like you and me, their parents fornicated in this country and now we all get to vote on where we want it to go. But more to the point, an even cursory survey of history will show you that the single greatest demonstrable threat to democracies over the centuries is a corruption, specifically high-level corruption. The machinery of democracy, once built, depends upon honesty and fairness for it's maintenance. The Bush family is a much greater threat to democracy than this family will ever be.
And H. Humbert, these people are so far from having any consequential influence on public policy it's laughable. They may make trouble for their local school board or complain about their neighbor's chickens but that's the horizon line of their influence. The only time they'll ever spend in the corridors of power will be pushing a mop or looking for the bathroom. They will never see the other side of the velvet rope. At least not in this lifetime. Like somebody scared of homeless bums, you are investing disadvantaged people with some great, terrifying power that they don't possess. It's how we demonize people. Who knows, you might think I'm a backwoods destroyer of worlds as well. Boo! What an asshole you are.
Posted by: telecom | February 19, 2008 2:13 AM
$5 says "telecom" is really Jaycubed/SwelP/Legion...
Posted by: thalarctos | February 19, 2008 2:51 AM
I'm the person who shot this video.
It's been interesting to see the flood of comments unleashed here and on the original YouTube version. This video, and these people, very much deserve serious discussion. I don't think anyone should wish ill upon them, or simply dismiss them as hicks.
Once I drove out of Lynchburg and pulled over to eat the fine meal they served up for me, I was really kind of confused and reflective. PZ is right - these are GOOD people, some of the nicest folks I've ever met in my life. And what they believe is so wrong, and the fervor with which they believe it is frightening.
I won't say much more than that, except I'm glad they welcomed me into their poll barn church and were eager to let a stranger record their views - though they'd never heard of YouTube. Anybody want to send that girl a $100 laptop with an EVDO card? :-)
This video was made on my trip through the South for a citizen journalism organization called The UpTake, getting deeper stories and motivations behind primary voters. Check out more vids from my trip here.
Posted by: Chuck Olsen | February 19, 2008 2:58 AM
These may be "well-intending" people, but their god isn't. They worship a god who is going to rapture them to heaven, and then take a giant shit on the rest of us. ----- I was raised in a fundamentalist xian home, and it took me years to rid myself of the magic, the poison, the utter lunacy. Seeing this video brings back a lot of pain, and the sense that common sense may never prevail -- let alone mankind.
Posted by: looflirpa | February 19, 2008 3:32 AM
But it was large numbers of families like this that voted in the Bush family - three times!
Posted by: bassmanpete | February 19, 2008 4:30 AM
Oh hey, Aussie crowd. Yes, there are plenty of crazy people here in Queensland. (None of them crazy enough to employ me, on another note)
Though, it's a pretty crazy cult that worships a bubble, I'd say. Got to admire their devotion: following "the word of the bubble" can't be easy, especially on windy days.
Posted by: the amazing kim | February 19, 2008 5:02 AM
I think the real travesty about the parroting of lies is the fact that people seem to be showing an increasing lack of interest in the credibility of things they hear. Dawkins pointed out in The God Delusion that children trust in the words of authority figures (grown ups). The problem is that often, as is the case with religious Fundamentalists, this leads to a complete disregard of critical thinking.
People like this are afraid to question things. When they hear something that they want to believe (such as that evolution is a fraud, Obama wanted to be sworn in on the Qur'an and that he refuses th