…and this is a 
Unbelievable
Category: Religion
Posted on: February 14, 2008 5:52 PM, by PZ Myers
Saudi Arabia is one screwed up, vile little backwater of a barbarous craphole. You have to read the case of Fawza Falih.
She has been condemned to death. By beheading.
She has been beaten to the point of hospitalization during her incarceration.
The authorities have a signed confession, which she has not had read to her.
She didn't read what she signed, either, because she's illiterate.
She and her representatives were not allowed to attend much of the trial.
And the crime for which she is to be executed? Witchcraft. She is accused of casting a spell that caused a man to become impotent, and threatening to cause people to be possessed by dogs.
Apparently, the spells must have worked all too well, since all the men of Saudi Arabia are now cowardly eunuchs with the souls of craven mongrels. At least, that's the only explanation I can see for their uncivilized behavior.
Comments
Butbutbut, they're our allies in the war on terra! They're supposed to be helping spread democracy in the region.
(Though how a theocratic monarchist dictatorship is supposed to spread democracy has not been thoroughly explained.)
Posted by: Seraphiel | February 14, 2008 5:58 PM
Anyhow, that's all due to atheism and evolution, isn't it? Surely bringing ID into Saudi Arabia would prevent such atrocities by Big Science.
Oh, wait, it's Big Science that even IDists turn to whenever they're accused of crimes, and oddly they don't want supernatural evidence brought against them. Um, well, is it possible that oppression comes from religion (I didn't say from all religion), liberation, more often than not, from science?
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: Glen Davidson | February 14, 2008 6:00 PM
The fact that this sort of thing still happens in the 21st century shows just how far we have to go.
Posted by: Chuck Morrison | February 14, 2008 6:00 PM
But they are the good guys, I mean only a simple majoraty of the 9-11 hijakers where not from Saudi Arabia. Every time someone starts to talk about the U.S. being a "Christian Nation" I think how cool it would be if our country was just like Saudi Arabia.
Posted by: The Backpacker | February 14, 2008 6:00 PM
Teh logic ain't der. Time for another exorcist...
Posted by: danley | February 14, 2008 6:00 PM
I thought the old adage was you can't pick your relatives? How did they become our friends in the war on terror again?
Posted by: Lago | February 14, 2008 6:02 PM
This is so stupid. And it's like there's nothing that can be done, anyway. All I ever hear is how Saudi Arabia is our ally and one of the "decent countries," but, uh.. it sure doesn't sound like it.
You're right. This IS unbelievable. And very sickening.
Posted by: October Mermaid | February 14, 2008 6:04 PM
If I didn't know first hand how vicious and evil some humans can be, I think I might wonder if something like this story wasn't made up. But then again, if I'd read something like this in a work of fiction I might well think it was too far fetched to be realistic.
Posted by: Ted D | February 14, 2008 6:07 PM
From the linked BBC article: "Human Rights Watch says the trial failed to meet the safeguards in the Saudi justice system."
Saudia Arabia has safeguards? They have a justice system?
That's news to me.
Posted by: Kevin L. | February 14, 2008 6:08 PM
I remember a while back when Saudi Arabia was running a fricking AD CAMPAIGN in the US to try to help their public image after all that stuff about the number of 9/11 hijackers that came from there came out. These commercials were unreal, they were actually spewing righteous indignation that we might cast aspersions in their great country.
I am absolutely disgusted at how our country will suck up to a country that is so completely objectionable EXCEPT they have oil. And suddenly they're our buddies, we'll give them cutting edge military hardware and excuse their countless faults because they're supposed to be our buddies.
Posted by: Nomad | February 14, 2008 6:10 PM
This is just par for the course for the Saudis! You can read more about Saudi Arabia's perverse justice system in "Part 2" here:
www.asecondlookatthesaudis.com
Using charges of "witchcraft," "apostasy" or "blasphemy," all of which are capital offenses under Saudi Arabia's version of Islamic law, are common tools for persecuting religious minorities in the Kingdom (especially Shia and Sufi Muslims), and for settling contract disputes with foreign workers.
The entire Saudi "Justice System" is a grotesque abomination, although, unfortunately, that is the least of our problems with the Saudis.
Posted by: Bill in Chicago | February 14, 2008 6:10 PM
doesn't surprise me. Hell if some of my neighbors had their way the sme thing would be happening here in the us
Posted by: cthulhu's minion | February 14, 2008 6:11 PM
It is the 21st century and we still have representatives of the state prosecuting people for witchcraft?
Posted by: Trent1492 | February 14, 2008 6:19 PM
Yeah, but think about this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s24Fxiwfc5Y&feature=related
Posted by: healthphysicist | February 14, 2008 6:19 PM
And we buy our oil from these demented barbarians and savages? I wonder how much of my gas money paid for this woman's incarceration?
Fuck that. I think it's time to start walking.
Posted by: Dan | February 14, 2008 6:20 PM
Their wholly fictitious Allah condemns the wholly fictitious crime of witchcraft. Not a big surprise, I guess. I mean, if you're going to believe one bullshit thing, you may as well believe anything that strikes your fancy.
And how much you wanna bet Bush and his cronies aren't even a tad bit concerned?
Posted by: Robin | February 14, 2008 6:21 PM
To be fair, this are all allegations on PZ's part ;)
Off-topic:
I started reading this type of blogs a couple of weeks ago and can't get enough of them. Like the book, I felt like a candle in the dark. Now I know there are a bunch of other candles out there. Can you guys name me a few books to get me deeper into this? Thanks.
Posted by: Sh!fty | February 14, 2008 6:22 PM
Not to worry. It's what Allah would want. Besides, he's just taking his cues from Yahweh.
Posted by: Bruce | February 14, 2008 6:23 PM
Sh!fty:
For evolution, Dawkin's Ancestor's Tale.
For delusional religion, Dawkin's The God Delusion.
Posted by: healthphysicist | February 14, 2008 6:25 PM
Tell me again why the Shrub invaded Iraq and not Saudi Arabia?
Saudi Arabia:
1. repressive regime. check.
2. 9/11. check.
3. No weapons of Mass Destruction. check.
The only difference I can see between Saudi Arabia and Saddam Hussein's Iraq is Aramco.
Posted by: Mike Haubrich, FCD | February 14, 2008 6:29 PM
"...very small rocks...."!
Posted by: Alex | February 14, 2008 6:30 PM
I know. Why don't we all stop buying petrol in protest until our respective Governments tell these f**kers where to go?
Any takers?
No?
Face it - these barbarians are getting away with this because we let them.
Posted by: RascoHeldall | February 14, 2008 6:31 PM
Got to love that 'ole time religion!
Posted by: RAM | February 14, 2008 6:31 PM
OT:
@17
I depends on what aspect you are interested in. Biology, science, evidence-based reasoning, etc.
The current crop of books is a good place to start, especially the God Delusion. Also, How to Think About Weird Things, The Psychology of Judgement and Decision Making, The Demon Haunted World, Flim Flam (a bit dated but still interesting), God is Not Great, Fads and Fallacies in the Name of Science (old but good).
Posted by: scote | February 14, 2008 6:32 PM
"the religious police who detained her"
As bad as thought police.
Posted by: Dahan | February 14, 2008 6:33 PM
So.... can't they behead, or at least stone, Saudi King Whichever for holding George Bush's hand like a lovesick schoolgirl?
Although I'd like to see him spared, just as he spared that rape victim from being lashed as her punishment for being raped. Hey, progress is progress.
BRB - the cauldron's boiling over.
Posted by: Kseniya | February 14, 2008 6:36 PM
My grandfather worked in Saudi in the 50s. He was going to move his family there until he saw a public execution.
The Muslim nations are Earth's Mordor. My greatest hope is that we can solve the Christian Problem in the US and thus gain the moral authority to overcome Islam.
When I speak of the Christian Problem in the US, people compare it to talk of the Jewish Problem in Nazi Germany. The Nazis were either severly mistaken or simply exploiting anti-Semitism to there own ends. There was no Jewish Problem in 1930s Germany,;But there is a Christian Problem in the US today. Huckabee says the the Constitution should be amemded to conform with Biblical principles. Falwell and Robertson gave comfort to our enemies by saying that we deserved 9/11for our sinfulness.Our president says a Magic Man in the Sky told him to attack Iraq (the most secular of Muslim natios) and that's good enough for the fundies.
.American fundamentalist Christians are not merely trying to take over our nation, they are committed the destruction of the whole world. They have a program in place to acquire large numbers of nuclear weapons. What's all that mess at the USAF Academy about. The fundies want The Bomb and they'll get it soon..
Posted by: Bacopa | February 14, 2008 6:50 PM
BUT SHE TURNED ME INTO A NEWT!
Posted by: Rev. Ayatollah Mulla Fakir | February 14, 2008 6:53 PM
"all the men of Saudi Arabia are now cowardly eunuchs with the souls of craven mongrels"
I understand PZ's style, but it's more than worth noting that Saudi Arabia isn't a democracy, so the average Saudi male is nearly as powerless as the women on this issue (not to mentioned brainwashed in a tightly-controlled non-democracy).
I think PZ's way off the mark. Send the arrows where they're deserved.
Posted by: Brian Schmidt | February 14, 2008 6:53 PM
Bacopa:
I agree with just about everything you said, except I think the fundies will play politics to try to achieve their end. I can't see them getting the Bomb.
Posted by: healthphysicist | February 14, 2008 6:54 PM
Unsurprising.
All fundamentalist religion shares a basis to some not-insignificant extent in the fear and punishment of the Scary Vagina.
Posted by: Jennifer | February 14, 2008 6:57 PM
Apparently, the spells must have worked all too well, since all the men of Saudi Arabia are now cowardly eunuchs with the souls of craven mongrels. At least, that's the only explanation I can see for their uncivilized behavior.
I thought it was simple hatred of women.
Posted by: MAJeff | February 14, 2008 7:03 PM
Brian @#29: The operative word is 'nearly'. It was a poor, powerless man, after all, whose claim of impotence via witchcraft has kicked off this whole chain of events that resulted in a woman being imprisoned, beaten, persecuted, and sentenced to death by beheading. However little power he might have in this regime, it is at least a thousand times greater than that of the poor woman in question.
Posted by: DanioPhD | February 14, 2008 7:04 PM
but this can't be true. I mean, they're our best friends and everything. If this was really true, we'd have bombed the crap out of them by now so as to spread freedom(TM).
http://tinyurl.com/25fvx6
Posted by: Brain Hertz | February 14, 2008 7:04 PM
We all must try to keep the news of this away from Michael Mukasey. Since he does not know if waterboarding is not torture, I am sure he would have a hard time telling if this unfortunate woman was railroaded.
Posted by: Janine | February 14, 2008 7:05 PM
I read (on some other blog I can't remember at the moment) that these sort of things can happen because the Saudi king has to kowtow to the religious fundie extremists who 'really' rule the land. As long as they can do whatever they please, they'll turn a blind eye to his taking US money. At least he is smart enough to take a bribe.
All this makes me wonder if it isn't time for a little covert action. A little CIA-sponsored fundie-hunting to free our poor little dictator friend from the clutches of the evil islamofascists. It would be for the common good. It might even be tax-deductable. :)
Posted by: Whodunnit | February 14, 2008 7:08 PM
And the ad at the top of the page is Faiths United for Sustainable Energy. We need something other than oil, and with this latest news it seems like a good time to start.
Posted by: Matthew | February 14, 2008 7:08 PM
Danio #39: I agree the average Saudi male is better off than the average Saudi female, but that average is male is also "nearly" as powerless. Blaming the average person is wrong in the Saudi system. PZ's sentence reads like something I might see from a right winger - he's going after the wrong people.
And who knows what the average Saudi male thinks about this issue anyway, and whether the average Saudi female thinks differently about witchcraft?
Posted by: Brian Schmidt | February 14, 2008 7:13 PM
PZ,
Please do not say such awful things about dogs. After all they may be our coevolutionists.
Posted by: Tervuren | February 14, 2008 7:22 PM
Guys, you're missing the big picture.
She threatened that she would cause people to be possessed by dogs.
Christ almighty, but how can it get any worse than that? The Arabs just don't want to see their people licking their own balls. Sounds reasonable to me!
(Seriously, the day the oil runs out--and when these kooks can go back to herding goats--can't come fast enough).
Posted by: Mr. Flibble | February 14, 2008 7:22 PM
Re Brian Schmidt
Oh dear, oh dear . . .
Right wing = evil
Left wing = good
Have you potty-trained yet?
Posted by: Mystic Olly | February 14, 2008 7:23 PM
Ayan Hirsi was spot on.
Posted by: danley | February 14, 2008 7:26 PM
There are a variety of views in any country. A good way to get a sense of that is by checking out blogs by Saudis.
Saudi Jeans blog
http://saudijeans.org/
Posted by: Colugo | February 14, 2008 7:26 PM
Honestly, if this wasn't so tragic, the backwardness of it all would be hilarious. Saudi Arabia is one of the most economically significant nations in the world, and they scream like Monty Python medieval peasants about "witchcraft". It's almost like a lost world.
Posted by: Brandon P. | February 14, 2008 7:27 PM
"During many ages there were witches. The Bible said so. The Bible commanded that they should not be allowed to live. Therefore the Church, after doing its duty in but a lazy and indolent way for 800 years, gathered up its halters, thumbscrews, and firebrands, and set about its holy work in earnest. She worked hard at it night and day during nine
centuries and imprisoned, tortured, hanged, and burned whole hordes and armies of witches, and washed the Christian world clean with their foul blood. Then it was discovered that there was no such thing as witches, and never had been. One does not know whether to laugh or to cry." [Mark Twain, "Europe and Elsewhere"]
I think I heard a sarcastic chuckle from Mr. Clemens.
Posted by: Alex | February 14, 2008 7:31 PM
Why couldn't Allah and his minions just cancel the witchcraft spells?
They are admitting that some illiterate woman is mightier than god and his
terroristsservants on earth? Sounds like blashemy and heresy to me.Someone ought to have them stoned to death for failing in the duties of a representative of Allah.
Posted by: raven | February 14, 2008 7:36 PM
Recall that Saudi Arabia was going to crucify two British nurses in '97 after they were railroaded for murder.
But let's be very careful to separate a sociopolitical order - namely, a corrupt monarchy in a tense alliance with radical Islamists (even more so since the 1979 mosque siege) - from a people.
The impotence angle made me think of this phenomenon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penis_panic
Posted by: Colugo | February 14, 2008 7:37 PM
Everyone is overlooking something rather obvious: there's no way a group of strong, armed men could force an illiterate badly beaten, terrified woman to apply her fingerprint to a piece of paper. Why they would have to trick her into thinking she was signing her release papers, or take her arm, press it onto an inkpad and then onto the confession - that could never happen.
Posted by: steve_h | February 14, 2008 7:47 PM
Why couldn't Allah and his minions just cancel the witchcraft spells?
They are admitting that some illiterate woman is mightier than god and his terrorists servants on earth? Sounds like blashemy and heresy to me.
Someone ought to have them stoned to death for failing in the duties of a representative of Allah.
Silly atheist, everyone knows Allah works in "mysterious ways".
Posted by: Brandon P. | February 14, 2008 7:48 PM
Bacopa,
I'm sorry I'm going to have to react to your post, but it just symbolizes what I think is a hopelessly naive and paranoid American-centric understanding of the world we live in.
Have you ever lived in any of these muslim countries that you seem to know so well as to compare to Mordor ?
And then, America needs a moral authority to overcome Islam ? What is that for nonsense ?
These countries will get rid of their religious carcan in the same way we did in the West, by themselves. The best we can do is provide safeheavens for those who seek political asylum, denounce human rights violations, and in some extreme cases impose economic sanctions. BTW, that secularization process had already started in many muslim nations until Mr Bush changed all that with his visions of "America is going to save the world and export freedom and democracy with its military might".
And then, "There was no Jewish Problem in 1930s Germany,;But there is a Christian Problem in the US today."
I'm just trying to understand what this means, but sorry, I can't.
Then, as much as I dislike Huckabee and Bush, you are just making things up as they have never said what you wrote. Why these gross exagerations, when the facts are sufficient ?
And I'll stop here with the rest of the fabulations.
PZ made a serious post about a serious problem. Fabulations are not necessary.
Buy a plane ticket and travel the world, maybe you'll learn something.
Posted by: negentropyeater | February 14, 2008 7:49 PM
We have the same kind of people here. Who want to set up the same kind of justice system.
They're called Dominionists and there's a lot of them: There's the Chalcadon Foundation, Coral Ridge Ministries has many dominionists within its power structure, including George Grant, the former Executive Director, Randall Terry of Operation Rescue, Focus on the Family (Dobson) and The Heritage Foundation. And a TON MORE.
Even Huckabee has made some dominionist claims and some of us are worried that he's a closet dominionist. Kind of like the kind of people that stealth their ways into school boards.
So, yeah, the Saudi's are pretty fucked-up as a country. And while I'm sure that many of them would love to be somewhere else or would love a different, more humane, system, the fact is they're in a pretty screwed and their justice system is a barbaric travesty.
Posted by: Moses | February 14, 2008 7:56 PM
" Saudi Arabia is one of the most economically significant nations in the world, and they scream like Monty Python medieval peasants about "witchcraft". "
To be fair, so does China. They've just banned people from distributing video featuring ghosts, witchcraft or anything supernatural for the purposes of "terror".
Posted by: Ginger Yellow | February 14, 2008 7:57 PM
But just don't go through Dubai, where you will get a mandiory minimum 4 jail sentance for having 3 poppy seeds from a breadroll at Heathrow or.003 grams of pot stuck to the bottom of your shoe.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7234786.stm
Posted by: Scote | February 14, 2008 7:57 PM
Call me a pessimist, but there's no telling how religion will evolve in Saudi Arabia. I wouldn't assume secularization based on Western models, and I do wonder how that country will differ a century from now. I wonder the same for the U.S.
There's this idea of progress as an assured, linear event. Pessimists like me have their doubts.
Posted by: E | February 14, 2008 8:11 PM
O devout practitioners, no need to worry. These Saudis will be visited by an onslaught of ectoplasmic 3 headed dogs in the next few weeks. I've discussed it with Cerberus and he's game...and hungry.
Posted by: Cthulhu | February 14, 2008 8:12 PM
There have been several attempts by the residents of Saudi Arabia to overthrow their monarchy. None of these attempts have succeeded in large part because the US provides massive direct and indirect support--weapons, intelligence, political cover--to the Saudi royal family. Saudi Arabia isn't going to change as long as the monarchy has American protection.
Posted by: Vagrant | February 14, 2008 8:13 PM
Watch it, Myers! You is talking bad about one of our big allies in the War On Terror. And you know the next attack is "inevitable"! So them Saudis have gotta help us out. We can't afford to go messin' with their way-o'-life!
Posted by: Mooser | February 14, 2008 8:16 PM
I like to think that the majority of Muslims, like the majority of Christians or the majority of people anywhere, are moderate. Unfortunately, the picture of Islam as reported by the Western media is somewhat different. I am hoping that some of those moderate Muslims will step forward and condemn what has happened in Saudi Arabia and, if it happens, I am hoping that our media will report it. What is the chance of either of those things happening, I wonder?
Posted by: Ian H Spedding FCD | February 14, 2008 8:16 PM
Neg @ #50, while I agree that some of Bacopa's assertions are a little murky, I'm not sure what you're driving at with respect to his/her representation of comments by Huckabee and Bush.
These are the direct quotes to which Bacopa is referring:
(MIKE HUCKABEE): "I have opponents in this race who do not want to change the Constitution. But I believe it's a lot easier to change the Constitution than it would be to change the word of the living God. And that's what we need to do, to amend the Constitution so it's in God standards rather than try to change God's standards so it lines up with some contemporary view of how we treat each other and how we treat the family."
(GWB): "I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.' And I did, and then God would tell me, 'George go and end the tyranny in Iraq,' and I did."
Yes, this is off topic, and perhaps detracts from the admittedly serious content of PZ's post, but on what is your charge of 'fabulation' based?
Posted by: DanioPhD | February 14, 2008 8:17 PM
Speaking as one of the few commenters here who has actually been stationed in Saudi Arabia (to the tune of approximately 14 months), I think I can say with a good deal of authority that everything PZ has said of Saudis is dead-on accurate: That country's religious police (the mutaween) are the very examples the Taliban modeled themselves after. They are all-powerful and are accompanied by secular law enforcement to help enforce Islamic law. They will beat and arrest anybody they desire to if they feel the wrong-doer has violated some vague dictate of the Qu'ran, and heaven forbid you be a) foreign, b) non-Muslim, c) female.
As for those that say Saudi Arabia is not a true democracy and that the men are powerless to initiate a change, BULLSHIT. The men don't change the laws, not because they can't but because they don't want to. The status quo is too good for them: Saudi Arabia is one of the largest welfare states in the world, with each family sharing thousands of dollars in oil profits each month (unless you are a third country national [TCN], in which case you are treated as slightly better than a slave but worse than an indentured servant). The men spend their days sitting on their asses smoking and drinking tea while they hire foreigners to do their dirty work - the only Saudi males in their military are pilots in their air force (and shitty pilots at that); the grunt work is done by Egyptians, Jordanians, or Americans (and the Americans are the best bargain of all - after all, the US government is paying their salaries).
If there was one thing that redeemed that miserable shithole, I never found it in all the months I was there (unless you count cheap gold - bling central).
Posted by: Sir Craig | February 14, 2008 8:19 PM
It was Western technology that dicovered and produced their
oil, and the same that developed their economy into a good
standard of living in that sandy waste of a backwater
craphole. But it is still religion that maintains that
country as a fanatical shithole. If it wasn't for the oil
discovered by our science theyn would still be eating
camel shit and checking their drawers for signs of their
freaking god.
Posted by: Holbach | February 14, 2008 8:22 PM
Most oil used in the US is produced in the US. Most imported oil used in the US comes from Mexico and Canada. Most of the rest comes from South America and Nigeria.
Jus' sayin'.
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4032
Posted by: Willo the Wisp | February 14, 2008 8:23 PM
#3 said it all.
Posted by: BlueIndependent | February 14, 2008 8:34 PM
Regarding oil.
With some foresight and will, homes businesses transportation, just about anything can or could be run on different forms of alternative energy,
Except a military.
Posted by: peter garayt | February 14, 2008 8:39 PM
Shorter Brian Schmidt: But what about all those Saudi men who've been beheaded for casting spells and rendering women frigid?
Posted by: ema | February 14, 2008 8:46 PM
willo the wisp #62.
It's not about using it. It's about controling it's flow and price.
The US cannot have Iran, China or the Soviets doing that.
He who rocks the cradle,
He who turns the spiggot.
Posted by: peter garayt | February 14, 2008 8:48 PM
I'm glad they finally found the reason that they all behave with the morals, intellect, and pack mentality of mongrel dogs. Now maybe they'll come to their senses and join the rest of us in the 21st century. To think, the problem was that simple all along. What will their Masters do, now that the spell appears about to be broken? How will they adjust to not living like curs on Alpha-master's tight leash? I can't wait to see how this execution changes things.
Stupid dicks!
Posted by: breakerslion | February 14, 2008 8:58 PM
We have a lot of Christofascist Taliban wannabees in the USA. The Dominionist/Reconstructions fascists. They differ from Moslem fundamentalists by.....well not much at all. This would be Huckabee, Dobson, Robertson, Coral Ridge, Falwell and a plethora of lesser demons who seek to overthrow the US goverenment, set up a theocracy, and head on back to the Dark Ages.
They own Texas, Bush, and controlled the congress up until 2006.
They are easy to identify, they say just that often. Below is an old post of mine documenting them. They are hiding in plain sight.
Posted by: raven | February 14, 2008 9:01 PM
Sounds like they're staggering into the 14th century, all right. And it gives us something to look forward to if the Bible-thumpers actually establish a theocracy and turn the U.S. back to the Dark Ages.
Posted by: Monado, FCD | February 14, 2008 9:16 PM
In significantly less serious but still in the 'Saudis Do the Craziest Things' segment:
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/02/12/saudi.valentine/?iref=hpmostpop
Apparently, there's no Valentines Day out there either. Actually, maybe they have got something right for a change.
Posted by: awesom-o-4000 | February 14, 2008 9:20 PM
Sir Craig (#60):
Similarities between the Muttwa and Taliban aren't surprising. Saudi Arabia provided (provides?) a lot of money and backing to the Taliban. Organizations tend to replicate the ideologies of their immediate funding sources.
Posted by: Vagrant | February 14, 2008 9:21 PM
Oil is a commodity sold on the world market to the highest bidder. We get oil from those sources closest to us.
Perhaps more relevant is just who helps -- in expertise, equipment, and services -- the Saudis find and pump their oil.
Posted by: idlemind | February 14, 2008 9:39 PM
The Muslim nations are Earth's Mordor. My greatest hope is that we can solve the Christian Problem in the US and thus gain the moral authority to overcome Islam.
...
I'm glad they finally found the reason that they all behave with the morals, intellect, and pack mentality of mongrel dogs.
Before getting all "Muslims are evil stupid dogs and should be eliminated" (or "extirpated", as Hitchens puts it), do keep in mind that the victim here, for whom we rightly have sympathy, is an illiterate Muslim who, for all we know, cried with joy on 9/11 when she learned that a blow had been struck against the Great Satan that enables the corrupt government that oppresses her -- Osama bin Laden and the Saudi monarchy are, after all, enemies.
Posted by: truth machine | February 14, 2008 10:11 PM
#17 Shifty...like most of us, you have stumbled upon the promised land...not of milk and honey but of cephalopods and tigerfish. From here the education begins for all of us. Wonderful isn't it?
PZ Myers is our great catalyst, blogging on our changing and not changing perceptions of the world as we learn and evolve day-to-day.
Other notables go by the name "The Four Horsemen" and are all worth your careful consideration.
They are:
-Richard Dawkins,(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Dawkins),
-Daniel Dennett (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Dennett),
-Sam Harris,
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Harris_%28author%29)
and finally;
-Christopher Hitchens, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_hitchens)
Welcome and Good luck!
Posted by: Rick Schauer | February 14, 2008 10:16 PM
I like to think that the majority of Muslims, like the majority of Christians or the majority of people anywhere, are moderate.
I refuse to consider anyone who believes a bunch of baloney about Allah or God to be a moderate.
They are all extremist nuts. No "get out of extremist nut camp free" card for all the nice Christians who look like they are minding their own business.
Posted by: CalGeorge | February 14, 2008 10:58 PM
"Most oil used in the US is produced in the US. Most imported oil used in the US comes from Mexico and Canada. Most of the rest comes from South America and Nigeria."
The US produced 150 mill barrels in Nov 2007. We imported 450 million barrels.
we imported more from Saudia Arabia than Mexico.
"The top sources of US crude oil imports for November were Canada (1.919 million barrels per day), Saudi Arabia (1.530 million barrels per day), Mexico (1.484 million barrels per day), Nigeria (1.245 million barrels per day), and Venezuela (1.227 million barrels per day). "
easy to find this information. suprised you would post nonsense. Even the link you provided says: "More than a third of our petroleum, about 37% of our total usage, is produced domestically.."
and you misread this line: "Most of our petroleum imports come from non-OPEC countries; 56% of it, in fact. Of that 56%, the majority is from Canada and Mexico"
Posted by: Kevin | February 14, 2008 11:24 PM
Saudi Arabia is the second largest exporter of oil to US after Canada. Mexico is third
Ref
Posted by: Bharat | February 14, 2008 11:30 PM
Posted by: steve_h | February 14, 2008 11:40 PM
"Saudi Arabia is one screwed up, vile little backwater of a barbarous craphole."
And these are our allies in the GWOT? With friends like this, ...
And just think how screwed up they will be when their oil is gone and their geopolitical significance will have to be based on the fact that they have lots & lots of sand.
Don't be surprised if the US supplies them with nukes to counteract either a hypothetical or real Iranian nuclear arms program.
Posted by: jeh | February 15, 2008 12:07 AM
"We have a lot of Christofascist Taliban wannabees in the USA. The Dominionist/Reconstructions fascists. They differ from Moslem fundamentalists by.....well not much at all. "
There is one key difference--most of them are unwilling to sacrifice their lives for a cause. There are the occasional nut jobs, but most Christian extremists are chicken hawks. Sacrifice is for somebody else--they'll wave the flag/cross/bible, but somebody else needs to do the dying. Martyrdom is NOT what they're into, that's why they invented Rapture, Inc.
Posted by: jeh | February 15, 2008 12:20 AM
She'd still be a victim here, twice over.
Like I said, we rightly have sympathy for her. My whole point, with which you appear to agree, is that we shouldn't want people dead just because they are Muslims (or for any other reason, but let's start there).
What I am pretty confident about, is that she isn't a witch and she didn't make anyone impotent so she is not guilty of the charges brought against her.
Even talking about guilt or innocence of a charge of witchcraft is absurd; the bringing of such charges in the first place is abominable.
Posted by: truth machine | February 15, 2008 12:25 AM
Brian #29,
but nor were the Philippines under Marcos, Indonesia under Soeharto, Chile under Pinochet, Romania under the Caecescus, India under the British, or a lot of other potentially cheering examples of regime change.(This is an uncharacteristically glass-half-full kind of post)
Posted by: John Scanlon, FCD | February 15, 2008 12:28 AM
There is one key difference--most of them are unwilling to sacrifice their lives for a cause.
Most Muslim fundamentalists are not willing to sacrifice themselves for a cause either.
Posted by: truth machine | February 15, 2008 12:29 AM
I refuse to consider anyone who believes a bunch of baloney about Allah or God to be a moderate.
They are all extremist nuts.
On the contrary, it is one who makes such a radical claim who is an extremist nut.
Posted by: truth machine | February 15, 2008 12:33 AM
Further details available at
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2008/02/14/saudia18051.htm
The letter to the King has more details, including the violations of Saudi law.
Posted by: Watching | February 15, 2008 12:40 AM
Bacopa I agree w/ negentropyeater...
actually I have lived in those countries and found them to be most the modern, highly moral and upright citizens of the islamic world this side of the 5th century. Beside fucking boys, goats, each other, stealing everything not tied down or guarded, spitting on those they dislike, cheating people (infidels) as a duty from Awfulha and any other reprehensible act, they are wonderful humans and desreve the repsect of our satan lead world. They afterall know the will of god don't they? How else do you explain beheadings, punishing the victims and belief in withcraft?
We are the ones that need to change in relation to them? Only in that they deserve what the Sodomizer Hisanus got.
Posted by: Barklikeadog | February 15, 2008 12:42 AM
Lets be honest, they're 5th century desert nomads who lucked out by camping on oil reserves. The one's with the biggest swords evolved to gold plated machine guns and that's about it.
Their sole contribution to the world is the facilitation of global warming.
Posted by: figment | February 15, 2008 1:02 AM