…and this is a 
Actually, it's theists who believe in nothing, quite fervently
Category: Godlessness
Posted on: March 7, 2008 10:19 AM, by PZ Myers
One of the reasons we atheists have to be loud and assertive is that we are floating alone in a vast sea of ignorance. Case in point: here is an artist who has obviously never met an atheist.
I am expressing my feeling towards the very Idea of Atheism. I almost pity those who have such beliefs. I'm not saying they are wrong or right. I'm just saying that what they believe in is more depressing than any other possibility.
So I made this simple picture to express my feelings for somebody who believes in nothing.
here we see a person sitting in a blank room without any doors or windows. What is most troubling is the fact that this person wants to be here, and is unwilling to move from his chair. Alone, neglected, and lost to the ravages of time. without anything to grab onto and hold as a symbol of his own identity. Those who seek nothing as a reward shall ultimately receive it.
I don't think Atheists can even believe in love, which is the saddest part.
If this picture offends you, remember that it is not directed at you. Even if you are an atheist.
Atheists don't believe in love? Where does this nonsense come from? This fellow is a fool who sits alone himself, imagining what atheists must think, and he conjures up this ridiculous picture based on the idea that atheists are lonely nihilists who believe in nothing. I know a lot of atheists, and no, his portrayal is not accurate.
I'm not offended by the picture — I'm just sickened by the smug ignorance of its creator. There are a lot of comments over there, too, all of which are getting hidden away by the host, which tells us who has got his eyes firmly closed in this debate. I think he needs to retitle his picture to "Self Portrait."
This atheist simply believes in all that is (which is quite a lot), and doesn't believe in that which isn't (which denial, to some theists, seems to represent a complete denial of the universe…which tells us more about their deluded mindset than ours.) Since the artist doesn't understand that we do believe in something (including love), here's a short, simple creed for the godless.
An atheist's creed
I believe in time,
matter, and energy,
which make up the whole of the world.I believe in reason, evidence and the human mind,
the only tools we have;
they are the product of natural forces
in a majestic but impersonal universe,
grander and richer than we can imagine,
a source of endless opportunities for discovery.I believe in the power of doubt;
I do not seek out reassurances,
but embrace the question,
and strive to challenge my own beliefs.I accept human mortality.
We have but one life,
brief and full of struggle,
leavened with love and community,
learning and exploration,
beauty and the creation of
new life, new art, and new ideas.I rejoice in this life that I have,
and in the grandeur of a world that preceded me,
and an earth that will abide without me.
Comments
Well, this bit certainly calls for a Python quote:
Oh, it's not as nn...nnnn...nnn...no...no...noo...not as nasty as something I just thought of, sir.
Posted by: MissPrism | March 7, 2008 10:28 AM
Considering the rest of their 'art' is furry and anime trash, I would not have even bothered posting this.
Posted by: Chris A. | March 7, 2008 10:32 AM
The artist(?) has it all wrong. For the Atheist (or even Agnostic, where I more fit) there are no walls. The above is the state of the Theist, only there are pretty pictures painted on the walls and the person sitting there thinks it is the real world.
Posted by: Cappy | March 7, 2008 10:32 AM
Anyone else find it ironic that the website it called 'Deviant Art'? Seems like just another sheep to me......
Posted by: Janeothejungle | March 7, 2008 10:37 AM
It's like Plato's Cavern all over again. This guy seems to think that we're all just staring at the walls of the cave.
I personally like to think of myself as a thermodynamic miracle. (From Watchmen: Dr. Manhattan's speech to Laurie while on Mars.)
Doctor Manhattan: Thermo-dynamic miracles... events with odds against so astronomical they're effectively impossible, like oxygen spontaneously becoming gold. I long to observe such a thing.
And yet, in each human coupling, a thousand million sperm vie for a single egg. Multiply those odds by countless generations, against the odds of your ancestors being alive; meeting; siring this precise son; that exact daughter... Until your mother loves a man she has every reason to hate, and of that union, of the thousand million children competing for fertilization, it was you, only you, that emerged. To distill so specific a form from that chaos of improbability, like turning air to gold... that is the crowning unlikelihood. The thermo-dynamic miracle.
Laurie Juspeczyk: But...if me, my birth, if that's a thermodynamic miracle... I mean, you could say that about anybody in the world!
Dr. Manhattan: Yes. Anybody in the world. ..But the world is so full of people, so crowded with these miracles that they become commonplace and we forget... I forget. We gaze continually at the world and it grows dull in our perceptions. Yet seen from the another's vantage point. As if new, it may still take our breath away. Come...dry your eyes. For you are life, rarer than a quark and unpredictable beyond the dreams of Heisenberg; the clay in which the forces that shape all things leave their fingerprints most clearly.
Or I like listening to Carl Sagan's Pale Blue Dot. Because while he reminds us how small the earth really is, the breadth of the universe just makes my thermodynamic miracle more cool.
Sure, it won't last forever. Nothing does. But it can be beautiful while it lasts.
Posted by: pixelfish | March 7, 2008 10:38 AM
Struth! If I had the ignorance of that artist, I certainly wouldn't want to broadcast the fact. There's more mystery and beauty in my atheistic world than in any theist's bumper book of fantasies.
BigBob
Posted by: BigBob | March 7, 2008 10:38 AM
I'm not sure this even meets the high standards of "clip art"... let alone any sort of art proper!
Posted by: DaveX | March 7, 2008 10:39 AM
I believe in beer and wine and good food. What more does one need?
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | March 7, 2008 10:41 AM
Without God, Life is Everything.
Enough said.
Posted by: Bob | March 7, 2008 10:41 AM
Janeothejungle: Actually I have an account at DeviantArt too. Sure, it's a silly name, but it's actually been a decent resource for newbie artists. Please don't judge all DeviantArt folk by the one.
Posted by: PixelFish | March 7, 2008 10:41 AM
He could improve it immensely by retitling it to one word - "PROJECTION"
Posted by: Vic | March 7, 2008 10:42 AM
I don't think Atheists can even believe in love, which is the saddest part.
There's a lot of unpack in this very common assumption held by a lot of religious people.
I think at least part of the problem has to do with their misunderstandings of abstractions, and what they are. They think atheists only believe in solid, concrete objects they can hold and observe. They throw that together with "You can't see love under your microscope, Mr. Smarty Pants Scientist" and they apparently arrive at the conclusion that atheists "can't believe in love." It's a difficultly in dealing with levels of categories.
The other thing that's interesting about the belief that atheists must not be able to feel love or joy of any kind is the tacit admission that "faith" is really based -- not on facts -- but on wishes. Happy, optimistic people CHOOSE believe in God: those who don't, must be unhappy, pessimistic.
Notice how cavalierly the cartoonist says "I'm not saying they're wrong or right" and quickly moves on to his main point, which is that the view is depressing. Clearly, it's not really depressing -- whether God exists or not wouldn't effect the existence of all the things in the world that indicated to the believer that God existed in the first place. But in dismissing the importance of whether a view is true or not and focusing only on its personal benefits, the writer doesn't say much for the warm, loving background from which he thinks 'faith' springs. It's just cold, calculated self-interest, dressed up.
Posted by: Sastra | March 7, 2008 10:42 AM
#3 - and, to put on the final touches of turning it into a picture of a Theist, there needs to be a trapdoor on the bottom leading to a lake of fire.
Posted by: tceisele | March 7, 2008 10:43 AM
Janeothejungle and Chris A. you are making the same assumptions this artist is. I'm on Deviant Art, it's just an art site with a strange name (that's what drew me to it in the first place, pun intended.) I like drawing Anthro characters or Furry to you, it's just something I like to draw no harm in doing it. The artist is completely wrong but you should not give him/her crap for some art they like to do when the problem is they don't understand what being an Atheist is.
Best,
Brett Booth
Posted by: brettbooth | March 7, 2008 10:44 AM
Evidently the author hasn't grasped the difference between atheists and a certain group of German nihilists.
"We believe in nothing, Lebowski, nothing."
Posted by: Escuerd | March 7, 2008 10:44 AM
OMG...an Atheist's creed!!!!!
made me tingle! love it! Im surrounded by so many theists that I feel like Im the only one out there! Thanks!
Posted by: Andrew | March 7, 2008 10:45 AM
I also love the "if this picture offends you, it's not directed toward you" disclaimer. That way they can make all the stupid statements they want and when called out say "Oh, well YOU weren't the type I was talking about."
Posted by: Escuerd | March 7, 2008 10:47 AM
Hey ! What's wrong with all of you ? He said : don't feel offended, the picture is not about you ! He forgot to add that it's because it is about some kind of ghostly atheist who exists only in his imagination (proof that it's a ghost : he looks all fuzzy and blurred). So let's not feel offended !
Posted by: Christophe Thill | March 7, 2008 10:50 AM
#11++
Awesome, PZ! I love the 'Morris Creed'! Or is it the 'Pharyngula Creed'? In any event, it speaks to me.
-eyesoars
Posted by: eyesoars | March 7, 2008 10:51 AM
All comments on the piece have been hidden. I think the challenge to his or her perception isn't being well received.
Posted by: GodlessHeathen | March 7, 2008 10:56 AM
I fixed it for him!
Here!
Posted by: MissPrism | March 7, 2008 10:56 AM
It's on Deviant Art. There's already no credibility right there. Any little 12 years old schmuck can post ugly stuff on there. And then they feel all big and interesting because they are OMG ONLINE.
Posted by: Michelle | March 7, 2008 10:57 AM
Very nicely worded creed. What's the source?
Posted by: BB | March 7, 2008 10:58 AM
The artist is happy for the publicity:
thanks to some idiot Atheists who love to take it personally and think by putting me on a quaint little site:[link] that they will hurt my feelings.
Far from it.
Thanks for displaying me like I was some type of Circus freak. My pageveiws have never been higher!
Posted by: CalGeorge | March 7, 2008 11:00 AM
Take away the stool and put the little dude in the lotus-position and you've got a decent illustration of satori.
Posted by: Sarcastro | March 7, 2008 11:00 AM
Re: an atheist's creed
I wanted to follow that up with "Amen", but somehow that just doesn't seem right. ;)
Posted by: The Other Dan from Milwaukee | March 7, 2008 11:01 AM
I'll tell you makes me sad. In fact, it scared the hell out of me when I was a little kid (still does). Spending all of eternity in a city with seven gates made of pearls and paved with gold, and the overbearing, demanding Hebrew God as company--now that is frightening.
It's very, very telling that those who reject fairy tale beliefs are seen as "believing in nothing."
Posted by: RamblinDude | March 7, 2008 11:03 AM
PZ, that's a wonderfully written creed. I googled "atheist creed: to see if I could find the author and came up with many "creeds", ranging from the mildly humorous to the just plain dumb. I want to use it, but have a terminal case of the attribution compulsion. Is it yours?
Best,
Andrew
Posted by: Andrew | March 7, 2008 11:05 AM
Wow, so much marvelous nonsense. I almost feel bad when small-minded people fall prey to the scathing scrutiny of Pharyngula readers, and this is no exception. Ignoring the fact that some teenage kid probably put this together, and one who was indoctrinated with nonsense to boot, there is really no excuse for the lack of thought put into it. Apparently the "Idea of Atheism" consists of sitting sadly in a dark little prison believing in nothing. What does that even mean? If only I believed in love, then I would be similarly inclined to understand other people.
Posted by: tyaddow | March 7, 2008 11:05 AM
Atheists not "believe in love"? I refute it thus: Every time I am with my children, I get loopy with the stuff. When I sing the Flaming Lips song "Do You Realize," the most beautiful face in the world--that of my girlfriend-- appears in my mind's eye and impels on me the most powerful desire to be with her. Every time I talk to my parents, with whom I have major differences and a sprinkling of resentments, but feel the miles erased by a natural affection and mutual concern, I demonstrate how powerfully an atheist loves. The fact that I acknowledge that love is an epiphenomenon arising from motion and matter and pattern doesn't diminish in the least the qualia, my experience of it. Unweave your goddamn rainbow, you stick figure hack.
Posted by: Greg Peterson | March 7, 2008 11:07 AM
I assume that by "love" this fellow is referring to the the love that comes from a God who threatens us with infinite torture for acting on our God-given sexual urges in an unapproved way.
Posted by: Virginia | March 7, 2008 11:08 AM
Why do these theist tracks seem to love using Comic Sans, that infamous and hated font?
Posted by: Plastic Nag | March 7, 2008 11:09 AM
Another masterpiece of projection!
But the whole "If this picture offends you, remember that it is not directed at you" is actually true. It's directed at a delusion that exists only in the artist's own mind. No connection to the real world whatsoever.
Posted by: phantomreader42 | March 7, 2008 11:09 AM
I assume that by "love" this fellow is referring to the the love that comes from a God who threatens us with infinite torture for acting on our God-given sexual urges in an unapproved way.
There's an out--the human sacrifice of the offspring of God and teenager he raped, and the ritual consumption of that offspring in order to confirm one's acceptance of the sacrifice.
I'll take beer.
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | March 7, 2008 11:10 AM
MissPrism, Hey! Masturbation is a sin, too!
Posted by: RamblinDude | March 7, 2008 11:11 AM
Great creed! Who wrote it? I would like to know because I am going to steal it and would like to give credit to the right person.
The picture reminds me of a old Sagan quote:
"In some respects, science has far surpassed religion in delivering awe. How is it that hardly any major religion has looked at science and concluded, 'This is better than we thought! The Universe is much bigger than our prophets said, grander, more subtle, more elegant. God must be even greater than we dreamed?' Instead they say, 'No, no, no! My god is a little god, and I want him to stay that way.'"
Could anything be more true?
Richard
http://lifewithoutfaith.com
Posted by: Brother Richard | March 7, 2008 11:12 AM
When a theist says an atheist doesn't believe in love or is not capable of it, ask the theist what love is. You'd be surprised how often love is defined by them in some nebulous airy-fairy magic woo-woo way that essentially makes their claim correct -- we atheists don't believe in that notion of "love."
Posted by: AL | March 7, 2008 11:12 AM
Mr. Myers, do you know the name of the author for that Creed? I would very much like to credit them and Google is of no help.
Posted by: meandering | March 7, 2008 11:12 AM
It's like Plato's Cavern all over again. This guy seems to think that we're all just staring at the walls of the cave.
When in fact he's the one trapped in the cave, staring at the pictures others have put up and which he's embellished.
Posted by: Phoenix Woman | March 7, 2008 11:13 AM
I relate to that, and to Nietzsche's madman.
Atheism isn't necessarily the great freedom it's often portrayed to be, certainly not to a lot of people. I'm fine with godlessness now (had reconcile to it, since I wasn't willing to live a dishonest life), but however much one points and laughs at the narrow-minded silly little picture above, it's still how godlessness seems to many people. It's the author's view of it, probably an honest enough one. It simply doesn't account for the benefits of living honestly at all.
Of course the text betrays what a mindless little wanker his belief has made him. For, it may be true that an atheist doesn't "believe in love," which is because one needn't "believe first" once one has left behind religion and metaphysics, one simply loves. It's the old "belief in evolution" mistake these buffoons make, that things must be "believed" to somehow take on reality (kind of like God keeping reality safe by constantly observing it).
Indeed, that's what leaving religion behind is all about, you not only do science empirically, you live in a kind of empirical existence that is foreign to the "believers." You accept "reality," you don't believe in a reality that you impose upon all experience.
But giving up that magical "reality" that supposedly works if you believe in it is often not easy, and may lead to the kind of despair meant to be depicted in that picture. Science (IIRC) had a recent article about a creationist who learned paleontological science and thus had to give up his creationism. He said that he tried atheism, but he did find it to be too depressing, so he's a kind of theistic evolutionist. The gains of giving up religion are worth it, at least to many of us, but sometimes the losses are too much for those contemplating the loss of their sky pixie.
We should laugh at the narrow-minded view of this author, but we should not forget that it's not infrequently the only way these people see the loss of god. The loss of any worldview can be difficult, and the loss of one that seems to animate the universe in a way that science does not can be even more difficult.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: Glen Davidson | March 7, 2008 11:14 AM
Huh?
Persecution complex? Someone draws an editorial cartoon which shows atheists as unhappy, bitter, unloving "freaks" and he takes reasonable critique as attempts to "hurt his feelings?"
We don't CARE about you, personally. We're disputing the theme you were expounding on, and explaining why. If this helps your pageviews, that's fine. I'm bothered by the IDEAS you express, not YOU. I hope you have a wonderful day, and a happy life. And that we persuade you to change your mind -- not drop over and cry.
It really IS all about him, isn't it? I remember my daughter told me once that someone in her civics class said "I'd consider atheism, but there's nothing in it for me." She asked "What do you want -- a toaster?"
Nothing about considering what's true or likely to be true. No. What matters is if it provides the happy.
Sheesh. Get over yourself.
Posted by: Sastra | March 7, 2008 11:15 AM
Yes, I also think it's actually a picture of a theist. But those walls should be made out of bibles (preferably King James version). Perhaps one of our commenters can re-edit it for us?
Posted by: Ubi Dubium | March 7, 2008 11:16 AM
Of course, imagining yourself, your friends and all of the Universe entirely and inescapably in the grip of a vicious, irrational dictator who sentences people to an eternity of Hell for acting on impulses he gave them in the first place isn't depressing in the slightest.
Theists: Please at least try to see what life looks like without your imaginery friend in the way - you never know you might even like it!
Posted by: Lilly de Lure | March 7, 2008 11:17 AM
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | March 7, 2008 11:19 AM
I beg to differ. This delusion does not exist only in this artist's mind; this delusion is propogated vigorously by mainstream religion in this country.
Posted by: RamblinDude | March 7, 2008 11:21 AM
His "art" sucks. Extremely poor perspective (that is, his 2D rendering of 3D AND his idiotic view of atheism).
Posted by: Matt | March 7, 2008 11:22 AM
Why are theists so bad at art and creativity in general? There is nothing remotely original or compelling about this 'art'. It's as bland and predictable as 'christian rock'
Posted by: Echo without Bunnies or Men | March 7, 2008 11:27 AM
Well, you won't find it on google yet, because it is my creed, which is mine, which I just wrote down this morning.
Posted by: PZ Myers | March 7, 2008 11:28 AM
You can expect me to rage when I get home. I'm currently containing it as best I can by playing a continuous loop of "All You Need is Love" by the Beatles in my head. Meanwhile, here's a link.
Posted by: Bronze Dog | March 7, 2008 11:30 AM
Why are theists so bad at art and creativity in general?
Not to get into too huge a war, but: Bach.
(and yes, Christian rock is a vile abomination unto music itself)
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | March 7, 2008 11:31 AM
I beg to differ. This delusion does not exist only in this artist's mind; this delusion is propogated vigorously by mainstream religion in this country.
Posted by: RamblinDude | March 7, 2008 11:32 AM
I love that picture! "Rewards for an atheist" is exactly the reason so many people believe in god.
What do you get if you're an atheist? Eternal bliss? Virgins? A moral code from god? A sexual code ordained by god? (and even better) dirty sex not ordained by god? No.
That's why people believe in god. For all these extras. You get NOTHING from atheism. Nothing except for one tiny little thing. Truth. That's all you get. And it's a lonely little room.
Posted by: eric taylor | March 7, 2008 11:32 AM
I think the use by the artist of the word "simple" reveals all that we need to know. Though I think one or more of the word's synonyms would be more appropriate descriptors.
Posted by: Alex | March 7, 2008 11:32 AM
Oops, sorry for double posting. Gotta restart my computer.
Posted by: RamblinDude | March 7, 2008 11:33 AM
Full of fail: the rendering, the message, the intelligence.
Full of win" the Atheist's Creed. As an agnostic, I also can wholeheartedly identify with it.
Posted by: T. Bruce McNeely | March 7, 2008 11:33 AM
I'm not so sure I believe in time. What the hell is it?
Posted by: Comstock | March 7, 2008 11:33 AM
Well, for what it's worth, while, like just about everything else on the internet, DeviantArt has its share of untalented hacks and addle-brained teenagers, there is good stuff therein.
Take for example, Ursula Vernon's gallery, featuring, among other things, all sorts of wonderful tentacled things. ("Walking the Kraken" among others.)
Posted by: Adobedragon | March 7, 2008 11:34 AM
On accepting human morality: The Fable of the Dragon-Tyrant
Posted by: GreedyAlgorithm | March 7, 2008 11:34 AM
I don't think it has much, if anything, to do with atheism or theism (or agnosticism...), but the "atheist's creed" starts out rather badly. Just what is it to "believe in time"? That's almost spookily metaphysical. Also, to believe in _both_ matter and energy seems a bit extravagant, if we're interested in paring down our ontological commitments. And, since our atheist friend also "believes" (in the warm, fuzzy sense of 'believes') in reason and evidence, perhaps the evidence based rationale for believing (in the assertoric sense) in time, matter and energy couled be provided. Half-baked ideas, even if the ingredients are top quality, don't satisfy the discriminating palate.
Posted by: bob koepp | March 7, 2008 11:34 AM
The art isn't even good. Who the heck would want a print of it?
Posted by: Cay Borduin | March 7, 2008 11:35 AM
You call that a chair? I demand lumbar support.
Posted by: Aric | March 7, 2008 11:37 AM
(.)(.)
Posted by: wÒÓ† | March 7, 2008 11:39 AM
You don't believe in time? I don't know exactly what it is, but it sure seems to be passing by. There's nothing metaphysical about it -- but it's something we do have to deal with.
Posted by: PZ Myers | March 7, 2008 11:39 AM
Commenting on the use of the word Reward:
Even when I WAS religious, I rather thought the idea of doing something good FOR A REWARD defeated the whole point of why you should be good. You shouldn't be nice to your neighbour because God was preparing your mansion in heaven, you should be nice to your neighbour because, hello, they're human beings with feelings too. You shouldn't NOT kill people because God would unleash his wrath, but because it was the only life that person would have.
Which is why I refute the idea that atheists lack a moral compass. An atheist who does good in the world, who strives to make the world a better place without hope of reward, seems pretty damn moral to me. A lot more moral than somebody who does the bare minimum out of fear and hope of a nebulous reward.
Posted by: PixelFish | March 7, 2008 11:39 AM
I didn't realise i was here to be rewarded. What absolute arrogance that would be.
I can have more fun quietly using my brain even in an empty room than he will ever have going to church and being told what people want him to think. This just reminds me of the statue "The Thinker".
Posted by: Richard Eis | March 7, 2008 11:39 AM
"#3 - and, to put on the final touches of turning it into a picture of a Theist, there needs to be a trapdoor on the bottom leading to a lake of fire."
Ideally, the trapdoor should also be a painting.
The comments section is the funniest thing of course. They always get so hilariously defensive when anyone tries to call them on their BS. Sorry, the "not directed at you" is not a get-out-of-criticism-free card.
At least she didn't pull the bit about how atheists can't have morals. That tends to annoy me, the notion that we don't believe in love is just funny. And the notion that we're so lonely because we don't have an imaginary friend is even funnier.
Posted by: Rey Fox | March 7, 2008 11:40 AM
PixelFish and Brett Booth: I'm not bashing the site, merely the fact that someone with that particular outlook would place themselves in the 'deviant' category. Let's look at the bigger picture instead of nitpicking, shall we?
Cheers.
Posted by: Janeotheungle | March 7, 2008 11:41 AM
This fellow has obviously not seen PZ and his cephalopods. Speaking of which, isn't today Friday?!
Posted by: Genuinely Doug | March 7, 2008 11:43 AM
Bob #59
I believe the lines go together..."I believe in time, matter and energy."
Heres the reference: Einstein, Albert. "On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies". Annalen der Physik 18: 639-641
Posted by: K | March 7, 2008 11:44 AM
I did go to his site and he lists his interests as "none at the moment". I so hope that changes. Perhaps in time, if he does take a real interest in something, his work will improve. I'm certainly not the brightest bulb on the chandelier, but every single day of my life has in some way been an investigation of interesting things and ideas.
Seeing his work exhibited, I wish him well, he's only 21, and his whole adult life is in front of him. But it also makes me wish there were some word for what I do other than "art".
Posted by: Carl Buell | March 7, 2008 11:50 AM
Well, this'll probably annoy most people and I almost feel like I'm giving ammo to the "enemy" for even saying so, but I'm gonna have to say that as an athiest, I personally AM kind of the lonely nihilist. But the reason for that is, I guess, I spent so much of my life believing in false promises offered by religion, and now that I've lost them, there's nothing to fill the gap.
That doesn't mean I'll start believing in fairy tales or comforting lies to get by. If there was some comforting reality or something I could prove that pointed to an afterlife, I would be happy and content, but there's not and I'm not going to pretend there is to please myself.
I've heard other athiests talk about how they get through life and how they deal with mortality and brain death wiping away our memories and personalities, etc., but what those people find comforting does absolutely nothing for me.
So, I don't really know what else to say. I guess I'm the nihilist they mention, but I have the problem of not being able to believe a lie, even if it might make me happy.
Posted by: October Mermaid | March 7, 2008 11:50 AM
ani difranco says it for me, Krensada:
but what
what if no one's watching
what if when we're dead, we're just dead
what if there's no time to lose
what if there's things we gotta do
things that need to be said
[...]
I mean what
what if no one's watching
what if when we're dead, we're just dead
what if it's just us down here
what if god is just an idea
someone put in your head
Very sad that you feel the need to use the Bible as a symbol of your identity. There's so much more out there. Get out of your shell. Don't fence yourself in. Unlock your mind!
Posted by: CalGeorge | March 7, 2008 11:52 AM
LOL he's got the comments hidden. What a chicken shit. He's certainly behaving to stereotype for a Christian and a furry.
Posted by: Bob L | March 7, 2008 11:53 AM
I did go to his site and he lists his interests as "none at the moment". I so hope that changes. Perhaps in time, if he does take a real interest in something, his work will improve.
Maybe he should paint emo-Jesus.
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | March 7, 2008 11:53 AM
Three 'I believe's in the Atheist's Creed? So Atheism is just another belief system?
Posted by: Sam | March 7, 2008 11:56 AM
I would have to say, his traffic spiked today.
Views
Total: 5,770
Today: 2,931
As for what is sad, believing in a being so petty, it eternally punishes subjects that cannot possible harm it. That's not love, that's the Stockholm Syndrome.
Posted by: Janine | March 7, 2008 11:57 AM
Just before Christmas there was a long article in the Franfurter Allgemeine Zeitung (FAZ) about TGD, which towards the end asserted that Dawkins can have no appreciation of Mozart because he's an atheist. Astoundingly presumptuous :- there was not the slightest indication that the FAZ author had any evidence for this. I was surprised to get to the end of the article and find Dawkins hadn't been accused of having a poor sex life. There's a tradition of this in England: "Don poor at table, worse in bed, Don that dared attack my Chesterton.."
I'm with the others who think that those who imagine an eternal bliss on the other side are the ones more likely to suffer from a stunted sense of wonder at creation and appreciation of what man has achieved on this side.
Peter
Posted by: Peter | March 7, 2008 11:57 AM
Just before Christmas there was a long article in the Franfurter Allgemeine Zeitung (FAZ) about TGD, which towards the end asserted that Dawkins can have no appreciation of Mozart because he's an atheist.
Funny, last night I was just posting my favorite scene in opera, the finale from Mozart's Don Giovanni. Guess I'm not really enjoying it since it has Hell and stuff.
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | March 7, 2008 12:00 PM
You could re-title it "A Life Without Sin" and you'd pretty much capture the ideals of the monastic life.
Posted by: SpotWeld | March 7, 2008 12:00 PM
Just so you know, technically there really isn't such thing as love. It's a made up emotion. Typically love is infatuation or attachment; everything else is a cultural invention.
There's nothing wrong with that, since the idea feels good and makes us happy (which is really all that matters), it's just a pet peeve of mine to see a fellow Atheist proclaim "Atheists do too believe in love!"
Posted by: Che | March 7, 2008 12:04 PM
I am looking for some clip art of a man having homosexual sex while claiming to be heterosexual and doing heroin with his "masseuse" with the text "pastor of a mega church"
does anyone know where i can find it?
Posted by: CleveDan | March 7, 2008 12:08 PM
A masterpiece, PZ. Thank you.
Posted by: Mary Aloyse Firestone | March 7, 2008 12:12 PM
Now all we need is some budding Bach or Mozart to set the Credo to music. Any volunteers? It might help to translate it into Latin first, though, to sneak it past the censors.
Posted by: justawriter | March 7, 2008 12:15 PM
"I'm just saying that what they believe in is more depressing than any other possibility."
This from people who believe that everything that's wrong with the world (including predation and disease) is caused by our "sin".
How's this for non-depressing? Atheists believe in a universe that's NOT OUR FAULT!
Otherwise, good post, PZ, although note that many Singulatarians are atheists and wouldn't accept future mortality with any more resignation than you would accept death from a treatable bacterial infection.
Posted by: Jason Failes | March 7, 2008 12:15 PM
Theist Creed
A blind man in a dark room
looking for a black hat
which isn't there
Posted by: Wallace Turner | March 7, 2008 12:17 PM
There's a difference between "This thing makes sense to me" and "I was brought up to believe in this thing so I believe it even though I've never thought about whether it makes sense".
Posted by: xebecs | March 7, 2008 12:19 PM
Che--"Just so you know, technically there really isn't such thing as love. It's a made up emotion. Typically love is infatuation or attachment; everything else is a cultural invention.
There's nothing wrong with that, since the idea feels good and makes us happy (which is really all that matters), it's just a pet peeve of mine to see a fellow Atheist proclaim "Atheists do too believe in love!""
Are you saying that emotions aren't real? How can you have a "made up emotion"? If love is attachment, then doesn't it exist? Aren't you demeaning the word attachment by suggesting that it doesn't have value? If love is attachment and attachment exists then love exists.
Your argument is semantic. I "believe" in love because I do love my kids, husband, and a couple other people. If you want to say I'm deeply attached, it's ok but the argument is still semantics. And really, has nothing to do with athiesm.
Posted by: K | March 7, 2008 12:22 PM
Those who are upset by PZ's use of the term "believe" just need to replace it with "acknowledge." There - all fixed.
Posted by: Cliff | March 7, 2008 12:22 PM
Now all we need is some budding Bach or Mozart to set the Credo to music. Any volunteers? It might help to translate it into Latin first, though, to sneak it past the censors.
I've been trying to find a decent video (w/English) of Iago's "Credo" in Verdi's Otello. Such awesome evil!
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | March 7, 2008 12:23 PM
Maybe he should paint emo-Jesus.
Made me laugh out loud. OK, snicker quietly, I'm in an office full of nerdy programmers and sales guys.
October Mermaid, I wish I could offer you something, but I found atheism liberating partially because there's no afterlife. This is what we've got, so let's get on with making it interesting and enjoyable.
Posted by: MyaR | March 7, 2008 12:24 PM
Che, just so you know, there's no such thing as "music." Those are just patterns of sound that we recognize and call "music" out of cultural convention.
Dude, don't be a putz.
Posted by: Greg Peterson | March 7, 2008 12:24 PM