…and this is a 
Texas Academy of Mathematics and Science: only the first word is accurate
Category: Creationism
Posted on: March 6, 2008 12:43 PM, by PZ Myers
This is pretty bad. It's a school called the Texas Academy of Mathematics and Science, and the concept is great — bring smart high school students in to college early, where they can get more advanced instruction from professors. It sounds like the faculty are good and competent, near as I can tell, but I got a message from one of the students attending the school: the administration seems determined to destroy the science and math aspects of the program, and as far as I'm concerned, they've already damaged its reputation.
They bring in outside seminar speakers — good idea — but the impression I'm getting is that their speakers are there to contradict the science. They're bringing in people from Probe Ministries, of all places; it's a gang of god-walloping creationists who rail against homosexuality and abortion. That is not a good sign.
Then, this year, they give out t-shirts with a cute logo to admitted students. This is another fine idea, except that the implementation is truly cringeworthy. Students get to choose one of two t-shirts, and, well, their choices are both revealingly ignorant.
Here's choice #1. This is not good; using a perceived human progression to represent evolution is misleading and perpetuates an unfortunate misconception. I know that that image is iconic and remarkably popular, but it isn't right. Show me a branching tree. Show me multiple species overlapping in time. Show me something about diversity. Just please don't show me something that implies evolution is about creating humans as an end result.
But all right, the goal of a t-shirt slogan is to be catchy, so if that were the only problem here, I could go along with it. But it's not. Wait until you get a load of Option B.
Whoa. I had to look again at the title of this place, and it says "Academy of Mathematics and Science," all right. It's preceded by "Texas," though — is that a modifier like "Not"?
That is utterly ridiculous. It gives equal billing to a nonsensical idea with no evidence in its support whatsoever, an idea which is anti-science, and makes me wonder what's going on there. Are there any UNT readers here? Any faculty? Can you explain what the heck the people administering the TAMS program are thinking, and if this is a conscious attempt to undercut the science program, or whether they're just plain ignorant? As it is, I couldn't recommend your institution to anyone, and now I've gone and made a blog post that belittles your efforts.
Comments
t-shirt design = designer
Posted by: danley | March 6, 2008 12:50 PM
The second T-shirt should say "But how do you explain pygmies + dwarfs?"
Posted by: Scott de B. | March 6, 2008 12:52 PM
They have to pick one when they sign up!? Surely that's some kind of segregation/human rights abuse?
Posted by: Wrought | March 6, 2008 12:56 PM
I can hardly wait to find out how many students chose A and how many chose B. And will they then engage in a reprise of the Jane Elliott experiment?
Posted by: Zeno | March 6, 2008 12:59 PM
I gotta admit, as much as high school sucked, at least I didn't have to deal with this sort of nonsense. Getting beat up in the hall is nothing compared the concerted efforts of adults to F with your brain. Hopefully, these kids are smart enough to see through it?
Posted by: DaveX | March 6, 2008 1:00 PM
I wonder if they're planning on using this t-shirt picking information to determine what kind of students they want?
Should we email them and get them to JUST DARN WELL STOPPIT?
Posted by: Wrought | March 6, 2008 1:02 PM
It looks like the girls on the T-shirt page are flashing gang signs.
Posted by: spurge | March 6, 2008 1:05 PM
Oh God, they're telling kids to choose whether or not they are to be designated as coming from the hand of God, or from the apes? If it were a choice, I'd pick divine origin, as the ancient Greeks typically claimed.
The choice should have been, "I'm a drooling IDiot who prefers Goddidit to science," or, "I'm an intelligent student who recognizes our relationships to apes and mice".
One has to face the facts: "Intelligent Design" is an unintelligent story for cretinous boobs.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: Glen Davidson | March 6, 2008 1:07 PM
Texas, can't you do anything right?
Posted by: Jason | March 6, 2008 1:09 PM
Someone should make a version of that option B shirt clearly depicting the Noodly Appendage of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. See how many of the students (and for that matter, teachers) are smart enough to notice the difference.
Posted by: phantomreader42 | March 6, 2008 1:11 PM
Maybe it's an admission standards thing: choose B, have your application automatically rejected.
Posted by: Brownian, OM | March 6, 2008 1:15 PM
And maybe follow up the FSM version with one featuring stocky, bearded little people and the hammer of Moradin the Soulforger. I sometimes find it amusing to randomly reference the gods of the Dungeons and Dragons pantheon in religious arguments.
And don't forget the Great Green Arkleseizure!
Posted by: phantomreader42 | March 6, 2008 1:15 PM
Actually, taking the pictures together...Thats not intelligent design, it's a man being popped on the back of the head by a giant finger before growing and shrinking again.
There we go Scott de B. God made the dwarfs and pygmies with his magic p-pow finger.
Posted by: Richard Eis | March 6, 2008 1:17 PM
I'm wondering if they study astrology, too? Or maybe bring in sooth-sayers with Tarot cards?
Posted by: Rick Schauer | March 6, 2008 1:19 PM
Who is paying for these shirts?
If it is tax money, since this appears to be a public institution; I sure hope some thinking Texan raises secular heck for spending public money to promote religion.
At least it is recognized that the god-finger is the "B" option.
Posted by: Jaycubed | March 6, 2008 1:20 PM
They even screwed up the ID message. ID isn't supposed to say anything about who or what the designer is. Yet they use the iconic hand of god to represent it. They total misrepresented both evolutionary theory and ID wild speculation. Can't they get anything right?
Posted by: Abby Normal | March 6, 2008 1:21 PM
And of course both of these choices are inherently sexist. Why is it so easy for people to forget that half of us are female?
Posted by: moonwatcher | March 6, 2008 1:21 PM
It looks like an attempt to take some of the best and brightest and ruin them. Vile.
Posted by: eewolf | March 6, 2008 1:24 PM
I have a friend who went to TAMS; I'm going to send him a link to this page, and with luck he may respond.
Posted by: Randall | March 6, 2008 1:26 PM
Why not something less divisive, like the image of a galaxy with the big arrow saying "You are here"? There are plenty of math images/equations to use too. These designs look like the academy is trying to "teach the controversy."
Posted by: wheatdogg | March 6, 2008 1:26 PM
I was a student in a program similar to what this purports to be. I started my college career a year early thanks to such a program. The fact that there is a program pulling this kind of crap really riles me. Luring them in with the promise of advanced education and then leaving them with bible-bashing and strawman science. Being from Georgia, I'm surprised this didn't happen in my Academy program, but I'm glad that it didn't.
Posted by: HumanisticJones | March 6, 2008 1:27 PM
I'd say this in favor, at least, the ID t-shirt is pure creationism.
None of this "we're saving Darwinism" or other nonsense from the IDiots, the ID shirt just has God zapping bumbling morons into existence to oppose science and to stupidly worship him.
They sort of forgot that ID is "compatible with evolution," something that never made any sense at all, other than the fact that they try to hijack every prediction of evolutionary theory as being "designed".
Anyhow, thanks for putting onto your t-shirts the fact that ID is nothing but Goddidit. If it gets to court, your asses belong to us.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: Glen Davidson | March 6, 2008 1:28 PM
The Probe Ministry stuff is disturbing but to be honest the shirts look to me like a genuine effort to get students thinking and talking about a contentious subject.
As a general rule, far too few high schools do that.
(I'll grant that in doing so, both positions have been reduced to virtual parodies of themselves to fit them onto shirts. Who knew it was possible to dumb down ID any further?)
Posted by: Ian Gould | March 6, 2008 1:29 PM
I wonder what the meaning is of the differently-sized humans on the ID T-shirt. Is the largest human (2nd from left) supposed to be the result of the mating of human females with the Nephilim as described in Genesis 6 "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."
I'm sure the next thing is to teach the "controversy" about the Noahic flood.
Posted by: jeh | March 6, 2008 1:31 PM
Maybe if a student chooses option B they are sent directly into remedial Biology. Have to admit, it's a whole lot more efficient than placement exams.
Posted by: H. Humbert | March 6, 2008 1:34 PM
Wasn't it the Jesuits who said "get them while they're young"?
Or was that Michael Jackson? I get confused some times.
Posted by: Abby Normal | March 6, 2008 1:38 PM
Because thinking too much, well, can hurt,
I'll say God made me, out of some dirt;
You can see I believe--
Here's my heart on my sleeve,
And my brains on the front of my shirt
Posted by: Cuttlefish, OM | March 6, 2008 1:40 PM
What kid in Texas is going to chose a t-shirt that if worn off campus would result in extremely oppressive treatment? The atmosphere in Texas is what gave us Bush! Your average high school student is going to go with the flow and the most popular students will determine which shirt the students will largely chose.
Any student cosing the Darwin shirt is choosing to be a social outcast in Texas. This does not promote thought or debate. The point of this exercise is to make students who belong to the minority more aware of their minority status.
I think someone should call the ACLU.
paul
Posted by: TeslaPRG | March 6, 2008 1:41 PM
I wish my designer had taken a little more time when he was designing these eyes of mine. I have had to wear glasses since the 3rd grade.
Posted by: Cardinal Shrew | March 6, 2008 1:42 PM
Maybe I've been in the debate too long, but that second Option B shirt immediately looked like satire to me. Set out like that, it's heavy-handed and smacks of kitsch. Looks like something from the folks at evolvefish.
I suppose that, given their speakers, there's not much chance it's meant to be "ironic?"
Posted by: Sastra | March 6, 2008 1:42 PM
Not to be confused with Texas Academy of Science (TAS) which produces one of the best state academy of science journals out there.
Posted by: DMHayes | March 6, 2008 1:42 PM
Come on guys, we need to help the students out by coming up with ways to improve the shirts and get them in trouble. So far I've got writting "WTF!!1" over t-shirt b with a thick black sharpie or just crossing out the words and write "I'm crushing your head" underneath.
Posted by: Drekab | March 6, 2008 1:46 PM
In the evolutionary sequence, the next-to-last hominid is clearly the best-adapted because he's got a weapon. The other four are unarmed and can't count on surviving much longer.
In order to show true progression, the last figure needs to be carrying an atomic bomb or something.
Posted by: chaos_engineer | March 6, 2008 1:49 PM
Once again, I feel I must apologize for all the stupidity of my region.
Posted by: Bronze Dog | March 6, 2008 1:50 PM
At far as I can tell, option B depicts a rousing game of Smash Bros.
If they're asking students to choose whether they accept the overwhelming evidence for evolution vs. whether they enjoy video games, then they've got a genuine controversy.
What's wrong with telling students that there's an honest debate among scientists regarding whether this is a good time for a Nintendo break?
And how many "Steves" prefer Xbox?
Posted by: Spaulding | March 6, 2008 1:52 PM
Here's a thought. Let's get a little outside the box for a minute. What if it's, like, the t-shirt that's saying that it is intelligent designed. Then it's correct, no? The t-shirt was indeed designed! Far out, man...
Posted by: Mike P | March 6, 2008 1:57 PM
What's so wrong about placing importance on the idea that everyone is a beloved creation of almighty God?
Posted by: Testy | March 6, 2008 2:04 PM
From their front page...
"Vann honnored by Texas A&M"
apparently all of their critical recognition and analysis skills are deficient.
Posted by: Vitis01 | March 6, 2008 2:06 PM
The god comment above is mine. Just testing a basic hypothesis about the "censorship" on scienceblogs compared to the Uneducated Descent. Needless to say, questions from an educated perspective do not get posted. I'm /sure/ it's just that creationists respect evidence to much to actually debate using evidence...or...you know...opponents. Enough of my ramblings. Carry on.
Posted by: Needs to control his ADD | March 6, 2008 2:10 PM
My comment should be "do not get posted on Unintelligent Descent." I'd know, I tried several times.
Posted by: Needs to control his ADD AND check his spelling | March 6, 2008 2:12 PM
I just dug around a pdf of theirs that can be found at http://www.tams.unt.edu/academics/academics.shtml under Biology 1722 ( http://www.tams.unt.edu/academics/biology/Raven8e_chp32.pdf is the specifc file I looked at). They use the word "evolution" several times in that chapter, as well as cover the Cambrian Explosion and its relation to the evolution on the homeobox developmental gene complex (Biology is not my area so I am just copying and pasting here).
This does not seem to match the attitude portrayed in shirt choice B. I have to wonder if this is some sort of way to filter out the unwanted chaff.
Posted by: JRY | March 6, 2008 2:12 PM
"What's so wrong about placing importance on the idea that everyone is a beloved creation of almighty God?"
The fact that it's fictional? And this is a University of Science?
Posted by: Ty | March 6, 2008 2:13 PM
I read over the TAMS site and also read up on Univ. of North Texas, which is hosting this camp and I would have to reserve my judgment on this. I am not sure if they really are anti-science and math as PZ purports. Even thought they do invite the Probe Ministries person to come and give a discussion about ID, I am not sure how well this reflects on the University hosting this person. I agree the T-shirts and the choices implied by them are stupid, but I don't think the Univ. of North Texas is like what we stereotypically think all of Texas is like.
I am sure there have been other perfectly good universities that have hosted crackpots (Bill Dembski, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Roy Varghese, Dinesh D'Souza, etc.) in their public forums. I do agree that exposing malleable minds to stupidity like this is not a good thing, but hopefully they are smart enough to see through the arguments.
Hopefully we can get the input of students and faculty actually involved in this program to get their take on any biases that may be present in the TAMS program.
Posted by: The Happy Cetacean | March 6, 2008 2:13 PM
Instead of just complaining, how about proposing better shirts?
how about "I am an evolved human. Creationists are vestigial and will be eliminated by genetic drift of junk memes, but right now they're getting to be boring repeat sequences that contain no information."
probably a too wordy and not pithy enough, but it's a start...
Posted by: Mark (Monty) Montague | March 6, 2008 2:14 PM
Actually, just cross out the words "intelligently designed" in option B, and replace them with "lobotomized by the severe head trauma of religion."
Posted by: Dan | March 6, 2008 2:15 PM
So, is the short guy on the ID t-shirt a pygmy or a dwarf?
Or both? Or neither?
I need a drink....
Posted by: Bruce Almighty | March 6, 2008 2:16 PM
"...but I don't think the Univ. of North Texas is like what we stereotypically think all of Texas is like."
Uh, yeah, yeah it is--I can vouch for that.
I'm a UNT alumnus and deeply ashamed of this. My degree was my Master's in Library Science, though--nothing to do with TAMS.
This is patently disgusting and I'm sending this along to another UNT alum friend.
My ex-wife is a UNT alumna, but also a fundie and IDiot so she would probably cheer this on.
Posted by: JJR | March 6, 2008 2:41 PM
I took an environmental biology course at UNT last year that was fairly rigorous for a non-science major program (lots of lab work, lots of independent research, lots of work in the field, and my lab TA had a thick accent we all had to experimentally decipher).
The science department is well-taught and well-staffed, but also serves as a central node for a lot of North Texas Science programs, since the campus is home to a brand new, admittedly awesome and glamorous, natural sciences building. We got lots of local elementary and middle schools to visit and had science fun days that brought an encouraging amount of families to the campus. So I hope the occasional nut that the department let give a speech doesn't reflect too poorly on the department as a whole, because there are good things going on there. I just get the impression that once again the prevailing political attitude in Texas pressures academia into allowing this sort of thing.
Posted by: MGrant | March 6, 2008 2:46 PM
Testy asked:
Well, for one, it's a religious sentiment, so not really one that's appropriate for an Academy of Mathematics and Science to be promoting. Not all people believe it to be a true statement, making it a sectarian religious view.Two, and more importantly, it's offered as a choice in opposition to "I evolved." This sets up the idea that both cannot be true. But since we know it is true that people evolved, it implies that the idea that god created each individual is false. That should be offensive to theists as well.
So really, the pro-ID T-shirt is a bad idea for everyone. It isn't a scientific or academic viewpoint, and it makes religious beliefs appear ridiculous and false. Does that answer your question?
Posted by: H. Humbert | March 6, 2008 2:47 PM
Looking around their site they look much like the school I went to , The Indiana Academy, except better, because they get college credits and have full college student privileges, where as I worked like a college student for two years but didn't earn any credits (except for from AP exams) and was effectively a 2nd-class Ball State student. But the Indiana Academy was a kind of liberal safe-haven in a very conservative state, and I don't think I would give that up for college credits.
I really hope that overall, the school isn't that bad, and since the kids are taking real college classes, it probably isn't in the classroom. And it's possible to have a fairly good school environment day-to-day even with some idiot administrators and even nut-job religious students (the academy had both, we just laughed at them). But those tee shirts are just plain awful....
Posted by: KeelyC | March 6, 2008 2:51 PM
What the heck is wrong with them?
Obviously the students should drop out of there and attend a REAL academy..
Oh , and if they pull the "We wanted to make sure we don't offend theists!" card, well, I'm gonna go right ahead and say I'm offended just because I don't see any chicks. What, did God just create men? Damnit. I knew I was made by Satan.
Posted by: Michelle | March 6, 2008 2:54 PM
Arrrrrrrrrrgh! That is so F*cked up. OH, the stupidity of it all... Aack!
Posted by: James Douglass | March 6, 2008 2:56 PM
I'm reminded of a big billboard I saw today (here in the UK). It read "Some people are gay. Get over it!". It was produced by Stonewall to tackle homophobic bullying in Britains schools.
Perhaps the Texas T shirt should say "We share a common ancestor with other apes. Get over it!"
Posted by: DiscoveredJoys | March 6, 2008 3:10 PM
Maybe instead, their T-shirt choices should be "I was born" and "I was flown in by the Stork". That would more clearly indicate the level of scientific understanding these goons are showing.
Posted by: Leon | March 6, 2008 3:20 PM
Wow, DiscoveredJoys. Raise a pint to the British! That's the best idea for an anti-crazy-right-wing billboard I've ever heard of, and no way would anything like that be put up in this country (US).
Posted by: Leon | March 6, 2008 3:28 PM
That would be even worse. "Oops, you may be bright, but we see that you were raised by ignorant fundamentalists. Your ignorance is probably not your own fault, and we may be able to do something about it, but we won't. Have a nice day."
It's probably just to show diversity. If they were the same size, then the shirt would look like God was churning out a row of completely identical people, which would both be visually boring and make the wearer look like a conformist.
Posted by: Ian | March 6, 2008 3:32 PM
Dr. Ray Bohlin is the guy from Probe Ministries who is scheduled to give a talk on "Science and Intelligent Design." You can get a taste of his work here. Maybe somebody there can help him decide what kind of creationist he should be...
Posted by: Michael Cook | March 6, 2008 3:34 PM
Maybe, in the second image, the deity is smiting one of the miscreants as punishment for deliberately misleading students.
Posted by: Julie Stahlhut | March 6, 2008 3:41 PM
Does anybody else find it hilarious that there is an anti-homosexual group is called "Probe" ministries? Methinks they doth protest too much.
Posted by: Brian | March 6, 2008 3:42 PM
The University of North Texas is a real state school, notable for its excellent music program (especially jazz). I was looking through Probe Ministries' site and see that the founder of PM went to school at UNT (but back when it was called North Texas State University - they changed their name probably 20 years ago). This guy is also now part of the Discovery Institute.
So I'm suspicious of that talk and the T-shirt choice, but otherwise it looks like an excellent program. We need more info.
By the way, 20 years ago I used to listen to the NTSU's radio station a lot, which has the call letters KNTU. For some reason, when the school's name changed to UNT, the radio station opted not to change their call letters! I was hoping for that but it never happened.
Posted by: Curt Cameron | March 6, 2008 3:42 PM
Let me emphasize: I haven't found anything that suggests that UNT faculty are a bunch of crazy creationists, and the note I got from a student suggests that it is more a matter of meddling administrators.
Posted by: PZ Myers | March 6, 2008 3:43 PM
#39: Do a search for "ahistorical", click the "Ahistorical garbage from the producers of Expelled" thread, and you'll find plenty of uncensored godbot lunacy. No, unlike UD, it takes some doing to get censored here.
Posted by: Rey Fox | March 6, 2008 3:44 PM
Other suggestion for t-shirts : "I live on a round Earth" (OK, or "spherical", as the word "mathematics" is in the school's name) and "I live on a flat Earth". With a drawing of the corresponding version, with a little man standing on it.
Or "All life comes from a cell" and "Spontaneous generation".
Or "2+2=4" and "2+2=5".
Posted by: Christophe Thill | March 6, 2008 3:45 PM
As a science student in Texas, it bothers me that issues like this one are frequent. I'm very satisfied with my undergrad education so far (UT Austin), but I fear that the impression we give the rest of the U.S. is that science education in the state is terrible.
Posted by: LB | March 6, 2008 3:46 PM
UMM, which is west of the Mississipi, also has a campus radio station with the school's name in the call letters.
Posted by: PZ Myers | March 6, 2008 3:46 PM
I almost went to TAMS... was accepted and planned to attend, but was talked out of it by my Physics teacher (who was fucking awesome). Turned out pretty well since I ended up going to Caltech.
Anyway, TAMS was very new at the time... and UNT was still North Texas State University (with KNTSU as their radio station instead of KUNT... I kid not). It seems like a decent enough idea, but having good courses for HS students to take in HS and the option of taking a few classes at a good local community college is much better.
The T-Shirt thing is less depressing than the Probe Ministries... The former appears to be just 'covering your ass' behaviour and is idiotic on its surface.
Posted by: travc | March 6, 2008 3:49 PM
I went to the Maine School of Science and Math which has the same stated goal and it was a great school. I hate to see a similar program screw up like this.
Posted by: Noadi | March 6, 2008 4:18 PM
His Noodliness is not very happy about once again not getting the credit for His creation.
Posted by: Damian | March 6, 2008 4:18 PM
"What's so wrong about placing importance on the idea that everyone is a beloved creation of almighty God?
Posted by: Testy"
Because it is an "untruth", more commonly called a lie.
Try it this way:
What's so wrong about placing importance on the idea that everyone is a accursed creation made from the corpse of Ymir by Odin, Vili and Vé?
Or:
What's so wrong about placing importance on the idea that murdering strangers & travelers is the correct way to worship The Great Goddess Kali?
The evidence is the same for these statements as for yours.
Posted by: Jaycubed | March 6, 2008 4:52 PM
If you want to complain to them:
here's Academy's Address and FAX Number
USPS Mailing Address:
TAMS
PO Box 305309
University of North Texas Denton, TX 76203-5309
Physical Address ( UPS, FedEx, etc.):
TAMS Marquis Hall 114
1511 W. Mulberry
Denton, TX 76201
FAX Number: (940) 369-8796
assorted individuals' contact infos found here:
http://www.tams.unt.edu/contact/contact.shtml
Posted by: JJR | March 6, 2008 5:07 PM
PZ, I believe you have this one all wrong. Poor Ray Bohlin... he doesn't know what kind of a lion's den he's walking into.
(the link: http://www.tams.unt.edu/studentlife/modules/news/article.php?storyid=362 I'd bet that Probe provided the text seen here, as well. That's pretty standard for such things)
(caveat to all that follows: I graduated from TAMS a decade ago, so I don't know what it's like now. All comments are based on the assumption that it is essentially unchanged)
As a TAMS alumnus, thinking back on myself and my classmates, I'm guessing this Ray Bohlin fellow is going to get his ass handed to him. I hope some enterprising TAMSter posts the video to YouTube. TAMS is populated with smart kids who don't put up with BS - remember, we had to survive in our Texas home towns for 15 years before escaping to TAMS. In our courses, we were graded on a separate curve so the regular students could pass. Every year, we had 3 or 4 students make it to the science fair nationals.
This talk by Ray Bohlin is not part of an academic seminar series - check the time. 8 pm. In Mac Hall (the downstairs rec room). The attendance will likely consist of a handful of students who may be interested in blindly absorbing this man's lies (yes, a few make it in each year. No filter is perfect.) and a few dozen students who are ready to argue, point out every flaw in his position, and every place where he has lied.
As for the t-shirts... they're t-shirts. Sketched by a student one afternoon, thinking, "What's the best way to get a laugh?"
My year, we had a person's head with a lightbulb in it (and it was an ugly shade of purple, to boot!). Did this reflect poorly upon our knowledge of biology? Were we all running around thinking, "I have a lightbulb in my head!" No. It was a t-shirt, probably derived from an illustration on some old pamphlet because no one could be bothered to draw a new one. At least this year someone is trying to be funny.
And frankly, if I were theistic, I would consider TAMS god's gift to Texas, as is implied by t-shirt #2 - for kids in small towns, it's their best opportunity to get a decent education before they turn 18, and certainly their best opportunity to escape the intellectual oppression that typifies small-town Texas (the next best option being to drop out, get a GED, and go to college, which was plan B if I didn't get in)
OK, I've spent enough time on this. I have telescope proposals to write.
Posted by: Scaurus | March 6, 2008 5:18 PM
"Don't touch that dial!!! It's got..."
Posted by: Curt Cameron | March 6, 2008 5:23 PM
There's nothing in the TAMS website that even remotely implies anything about creationism, nor any connection with Probe Ministries. You're just picking on Texas because you're a bigoted asshole. But that's fine with us, you can all go fuck yourselves, we don't care what you think because we don't need to care what you think.
Posted by: Dale | March 6, 2008 5:25 PM
Dale,
From one Texan to another, don't be a fuckwit. PZ is picking on us because we deserve it, because we should do something about it, and more importantly, because a concerned student sent him an email. Read the post again, have another look at the t-shirts, and the follow the links, damn it.
Posted by: Bob | March 6, 2008 5:39 PM
Wait, isn't it inaccurate to say, "I was naturally selected," until after you have successfully perpetuated your genes and their copies?
Posted by: mona | March 6, 2008 5:40 PM
"You're just picking on Texas because you're a bigoted asshole. But that's fine with us, you can all go fuck yourselves.
Posted by: Dale "
As a Texan, I'm sure you are well-qualified to give us all lessons. Both in being bigoted assholes and in fucking oneself.
.
Posted by: Jaycubed | March 6, 2008 5:41 PM
Oh yeah, my mother's family were Texans (for a century or so). They got smart & left.
Posted by: Jaycubed | March 6, 2008 5:43 PM
Oh, you just have to figure out how to add a few extra tentacles to the hand and it's not so bad.
Or, if you could scratch off the words and add your own, it could be, "I have a much better hairstyle than any of you baldies"
Posted by: CrypticLife | March 6, 2008 5:52 PM
"You might be more evolved, but I'm standing behind you with a spear!"
No?
Posted by: CrypticLife | March 6, 2008 5:53 PM
I'm the student who originally messaged PZ with this stuff.
A note: overall TAMS is a great program that has allowed me to do much more than I would have been able to at my old high school. The rest of the students are a pretty smart bunch and they've done a lot of awesome things in terms of research and science competitions (Siemens, Intel STS).
It's just over the past few months, there have been a few unsettling things coming from Admin. Nothing HUGE, just things like I mentioned to PZ about lecturers coming in from Probe Ministries. Yeah, it's part of a regular series of lecturers, but when the others were doing things like talking about becoming a Neurosurgeon or constructing a 65537-gon, it's a little jarring to hear about why homosexuality is a choice and how creationism is actually science.
This has absolutely NOTHING to do with UNT which has a amazing music school and is an all round great place to get an education. Just TAMS Admin losing there way.
Me and my friends have started a petition against the shirt, which is already nearing a majority of students signed. Any other ideas on how to put pressure on Admin to right things would be greatly appreciated.
Posted by: TAMSter | March 6, 2008 5:53 PM
"Hair-ki-chu, I choose you!" ??
Posted by: CrypticLife | March 6, 2008 5:55 PM
I have a question. In your post, you say a student is reporting to you that the powers-that-be are doing their best to screw up this school. I agree, the t-shirt thing is unwarranted. And bringing in religious group to "teach" at a school like this is a bad idea.
What else does he say in his email? Just curious. And don't answer if you think it'll blow the kid's cover.
Thanks.
Posted by: MikeM | March 6, 2008 5:56 PM
I have to agree w/ Scaurus above. The t-shirt is likely a student design (and sort of typical for TAMSter humor), and the invitation of Bohlin sounds more like a rogue AD of Student Life than any nefarious conspiracy on the part of the academic administration. The location (MAC cafe) and other events in the same series are a dead giveaway.
Perhaps it's changed now, but in my time TAMS was startling in its lack of indoctrination compared to my 'home' high school. I remember it as a place of free thought, experimentation (scientific, pharmacological, etc.), and the freedom to be ourselves. If that sounds like hyperbole, try high school in a rural town of 1500 people first.
Although TAMS did lots of things 'wrong', both the classes/instructors and my fellow classmates were top notch. The certainly were _not_ undercover IDiots trying to infiltrate the many excellent graduate programs into which they were admitted.
There are many things about Texas that should freak you out (e.g. Vidor, the Bushes, school boards overrun by fundies), but TAMS is not one of them.
Bohlin's walking into a vipers nest. Worry about him (poor misguided soul that he is) instead of the kids.
Posted by: class_of_95 | March 6, 2008 5:57 PM
postscript: I just noticed TAMSter's reply. If that shirt isn't a student-initiated design, then it's definitely not appropriate, and colors the adsl's choice of speakers.
If this is really a part of a larger pattern, then I'd be happy to get a few alumni to call and voice their concerns.
Posted by: class_of_95 | March 6, 2008 6:10 PM
MikeM,
Worry not, my cover is thoroughly blown.
Class of 95,
It's not a rogue AD (not sure what that abbreviation means). I've talked with them and the t-shirt and Mr. Bohlin were unanimously seen as good things that would "broaden our horizons". I wouldn't really have a problem with this if this wasn't part of a series of similarly anti-sciencey things. Mac is the usual venue for any student events in McConnell (were things different when you went?), and like I said, the students are great, it's just the Student Life Admin being stupid.
(PS, were you a Macrat? The pharma comment strongly suggests that.:P)
Posted by: TAMSter | March 6, 2008 6:12 PM
Sorry for the double post, but the t-shirts were NOT student designed.
Posted by: TAMSter | March 6, 2008 6:13 PM
Stonewall poster for those that are interested:
http://www.stonewall.org.uk/education_for_all/news/current_news/2043.asp
Posted by: DiscoveredJoys | March 6, 2008 6:19 PM
tamster:
re AD-- I was referring to Kevin Roden, who is apparently the Assistant Director of Student Life
anti-sciencey things: care to give more examples?
Macrat: Back in my day (when we had to scream ones and zeros over two tin cans and a string to jove.unt.edu), we hung out at the 'smokers tables', which probably don't exist any more. 'Macrat' didn't really mean anything then.
Posted by: class_of_95 | March 6, 2008 6:29 PM
It looks like the girls on the T-shirt page are flashing gang signs.
I've heard math and science gangs are a big problem in Texas.
Posted by: coathangrrr | March 6, 2008 6:45 PM
That second tee look like it could be captioned: My thinker was hurt by static electricimaty!
Posted by: B8ovin | March 6, 2008 7:01 PM
Has nobody noticed how arrogant both T-shirts are? Both proclaim "I personally am the Pinnacle of Creation, and you are not, LOL"...
Besides, commen