…and this is a 
What hath the God of Biscuits wrought?
Category: Skepticism
Posted on: March 12, 2008 7:35 AM, by PZ Myers
Who needs church if you can get together and reason together? First it was Boston; now other cities are joining in with gatherings of fans of skepticism and science. Here are your opportunities:
London, England: Saturday, 15 March, 7:00pm, at the Doric Ach near Euston station.
Anchorage, Alaska: Thursday, 20 March, 7:00pm, at the cafe in the Barnes and Noble on Northern Lights Blvd.
We shall take over!
Comments
There are atheists in Alaska? I'll be damned!
Posted by: Shawn Wilkinson | March 12, 2008 7:52 AM
There are atheist everywhere, buddy. Everywhere. Even inside the churches.
Posted by: Jório | March 12, 2008 7:56 AM
Isn't it refreshing to see the faithful being so honest about the fact that faith falls over when you actually think about it?
Posted by: Lilly de Lure | March 12, 2008 8:01 AM
Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has
How do the goobers know this; by faith or by reason? They should tell us.
They get most of their information from their bible book, so is that where that gem comes from? But that book says that the Earth is flat.
The obvious conclusion is that these baptist people are just stupid, but experience shows that reasonably intelligent people can believe that sort of nonsense. They aren't necessarily certifiably insane either. So that leaves the possibility that there's a 'design flaw' in the human mind, for those with the wrong genes, allowing for these victims to believe crazy stuff if they've been subject to certain social influences.
These social influences can be diminished, if not totally eradicated. lET'S GO FOR IT
Posted by: Richard Harris | March 12, 2008 8:05 AM
Bugger. Little far South for me. We shall have to arrange a Scottish gathering some time.
Posted by: MartinM | March 12, 2008 8:09 AM
15th March in London ? Surely any decent skeptic will be down with anonymous protesting scientology on that day ?
Posted by: Gib | March 12, 2008 8:13 AM
Now we need a get together in Daytona Beach! Just think, Surf! Sand! Babes! (or dudes if you're so inclined) Beer! and drum roll please..... REASON!
Posted by: firemancarl | March 12, 2008 8:18 AM
While the article "Making a Case for Faith-based Schools" does not address this post directly, it is relevant to the general discussion of religion in schools.
http://www.macleans.ca/canada/national/article.jsp?content=20080306_107698_107698
Posted by: VronVron | March 12, 2008 8:18 AM
Well, at least they're admitting it!
But seriously, I never really understand what message they're trying to send when they equate reason with being bad for religion - I mean, this is such an obvious truth, but shouldn't it be bad for them?
Posted by: LisaJ | March 12, 2008 9:01 AM
I'm thinking of printing up a load of bumperstickers:
Reason is the Greatest Enemy that Faith Has...
Thank God I'm a Moron!
I'll make a fortune!!!
Posted by: jsn | March 12, 2008 9:08 AM
http://www.churchsigngenerator.com/
Here, you can practice for that witty one-liner on the message board outside of your own church! Here is a list of just,like, totally awesome examples!! Enjoy!
http://positivethoughts.com/funnychurchsigns.htm
Posted by: Deepsix | March 12, 2008 9:09 AM
The pastor who delivered that sermon was probably quoting Martin Luther, who wrote, "Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed. Faith must trample underfoot all reason, sense, and understanding, and whatever it sees must be put out of sight and ... know nothing but the word of God."
This seems to be one of his pillars of Protestantism, perhaps along with with the destruction of the Jews.
Posted by: John Vreeland | March 12, 2008 9:17 AM
"Reason is the Greatest Enemy that Faith Has."
Wow! Give the Craptists a few points for honesty.
Won't ever catch the Episcopalians making that kind of assertion.
Posted by: CalGeorge | March 12, 2008 9:17 AM
"so is that where that gem comes from?"
I think this comes from the writings of Luther:
Die verfluchte Huhre, Vernunft. (The damned whore, Reason).
Reason is the Devil's greatest whore; by nature and manner of being she is a noxious whore; she is a prostitute, the Devil's appointed whore; whore eaten by scab and leprosy who ought to be trodden under foot and destroyed, she and her wisdom ... Throw dung in her face to make her ugly. She is and she ought to be drowned in baptism... She would deserve, the wretch, to be banished to the filthiest place in the house, to the closets.
Martin Luther, Erlangen Edition v. 16, pp. 142-148
Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but -- more frequently than not -- struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God.
Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed. Faith must trample underfoot all reason, sense, and understanding, and whatever it sees must be put out of sight and ... know nothing but the word of God.
There is on earth among all dangers no more dangerous thing than a richly endowed and adroit reason... Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed.
Martin Luther, quoted by Walter Kaufmann, The Faith of a Heretic, (Garden City, NY, Doubleday, 1963), p. 75
Reason should be destroyed in all Christians.
Whoever wants to be a Christian should tear the eyes out of his Reason.
To be a Christian, you must "pluck out the eye of reason."
People gave ear to an upstart astrologer [Copernicus] who strove to show that the earth revolves, not the heavens or the firmament, the sun and the moon. Whoever wishes to appear clever must devise some new system, which of all systems is of course the very best. This fool wishes to reverse the entire science of astronomy; but sacred scripture tells us [Joshua 10:13] that Joshua commanded the sun to stand still, and not the earth.
Martin Luther, "Works," Volume 22, c. 1543
We know, on the authority of Moses, that longer than six thousand years the world did not exist.
Martin Luther, "Lectures on Genesis"
All our experience with history should teach us, when we look back, how badly human wisdom is betrayed when it relies on itself.
Posted by: Jason Faiels | March 12, 2008 9:18 AM
I think that Luther dude has something against whores :(
Posted by: Michelle | March 12, 2008 9:23 AM
Well, yeah. Ol' Martin was really kicking himself when they used the Reformation as an excuse to do away with the special clergy discount.
Posted by: PZ Myers | March 12, 2008 9:28 AM
Reason is the reason that the insane churches and their
retarded morons are on the offensive against anyone who
dare question their unreason. Freaking and dangerous bunch
of deranged slime, bent on spreading their insanity to
every facet of reasonable life. It is just a waste of time
ranting against the insane vermin, but it has to be done
because reason may prevail in the end. The present
situation almost renders this hope moot.
Posted by: Holbach | March 12, 2008 9:29 AM
Out of curiosity, was Martin Luther's usage of "reason" different than what we assume from our vantage point?
I mean, it doesn't SEEM like it, but his invective seems to completely and utterly stupid (and scary) otherwise. I mean, could he have been railing against something a bit more specific?
Posted by: jfatz | March 12, 2008 9:38 AM
To paraphrase John Stuart Mill (who said this about conservatives): Although it is not true that all religious people are stupid, it is true that most stupid people are religious.
Posted by: Sonja | March 12, 2008 9:39 AM
It's utterly amazing how many supposedly superior-minded people get fooled by an online church sign generator.
Posted by: dsmvwld | March 12, 2008 9:57 AM
Online generated or not, I can vouch that I've heard actual sermons with this title. It's not a parody if it's true!
Posted by: Carlie | March 12, 2008 9:59 AM
Hey Boston folks:
Remember, Skeptics in the Pub--now with Mike the Mad Biologist!--Monday, March 24.
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | March 12, 2008 10:00 AM
Thank you for helping us get the word out!
Shawn - yes there are atheists in Alaska! There's at least sixteen of them, which, given our population, I'd say isn't a bad showing given that we're the Bible Bolo to your region's belt.
Posted by: blue collar scientist | March 12, 2008 10:14 AM
Speaking of church reader boards- random chance or miracle?
Posted by: Mark Centz | March 12, 2008 10:18 AM
And I looked about and saw the atheists gathering to eat, drink, and have good times, and I said, "It is good."
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | March 12, 2008 10:21 AM
It's utterly amazing how many supposedly superior-minded people get fooled by an online church sign generator.
I haven't seen that particular church sign generator, offhand. (I checked. ;-) ) The original image ( http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/politicalblog/wp-content/1004267.jpg ) didn't look particularly shopped, either. (And it's way larger than most generated signage I've seen.) And since it IS a direct Martin Luther quote, you know it's not too unlikely to see active use.
Not to mention that since it seems to be hosted on a South Dakota newspaper's website, it lends more credence. (Of course it IS in a blog section, so it's possible they have user uploading for local hosting.)
Posted by: jfatz | March 12, 2008 10:22 AM
dsmvwld,
Welcome back troll! Are you going to make two or three comments in this thread too and disappear without answering any questions?
There were several questions posed to you regarding your deconversion from "atheist indoctrination" which you immediately ignored. If you'd like to correct my assertion that you are a troll, then please tell us more about the doctrine that was forced on you.
Posted by: Schmeer | March 12, 2008 10:35 AM
@#8 "While the article "Making a Case for Faith-based Schools" does not address this post directly, it is relevant to the general discussion of religion in schools."
As a product of religious schools, I think this "study" sounds like nonsense.
"Religious schooling can offer children an education that promotes tolerance and critical reflection and that encourages and supports their future autonomy."
Tolerance, critical reflection and personal autonomy are antithetical to Christianity. How can Christian education promote them?
"While students will mostly learn about one particular faith, this may be better than learning little about any religion."
Public schools are free to teach about religion; they just can't promote it.
"Understanding one faith may help the child to understand more fully the implications of choosing any religious way of life"
And beating them with clubs would teach them about the implications of child abuse. That doesn't make it worthwhile.
"the absence of religion in schools can be interpreted as a message about the insignificance of religion for daily life. That doesn't seem tolerant."
The same can be said about astrology or witchcraft. Is ommitting these intolerant as well?
Posted by: charley | March 12, 2008 10:44 AM
The full blog post:
http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/politicalblog/?p=2286
(Not that it's much of a post.)
Posted by: jfatz | March 12, 2008 10:58 AM
What ever happened to the Ithaca get-together? I haven't heard any more about it.
Posted by: Vasha | March 12, 2008 11:02 AM
I live in the south. So, is it possible to have an atheist tent revival?
Posted by: Deepsix | March 12, 2008 12:16 PM
I'm actually going to be in DC next week. Anyone up for drinks on Monday night?
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | March 12, 2008 12:18 PM
Yep, there are definitely atheists in Alaska. I was one, before the *#$@ state cut my postition back in '99. I'd love to go back, but my girlfriend isn't willing. Sigh.
Posted by: mooglar | March 12, 2008 12:24 PM
Sadly, it's not at all surprsing that a religiously-motivated troll can come in here insulting people without realizing that the sign shows a direct quote from Martin Luther. You know, the guy who started the Protestant Reformation? Founder of the Lutheran church and inspiration for rampant anti-semitism?
Posted by: phantomreader42 | March 12, 2008 1:18 PM
The only problem is the London meeting is clashing with the England-Ireland rugby match, so we may not survive to tell the tale...
Posted by: mmghosh | March 12, 2008 1:34 PM
There's a meetup in Southern California the first weekend in April, as well. Saturday, April 5th at the San Diego Zoo, 12:30pm. It's being organized through a facebook group, "Pharyngulites In SoCal!".
Posted by: dkmuldoon | March 12, 2008 2:31 PM
firemancarl
I am north of you in St. Augie. If there are more in the area maybe we could meet up somewhere in the middle. High Tides in Flagler Beach has good seafood and cold beer and they are right on the water.
In fact, can't think of a reason I'm not there now.
eewolf
Posted by: eewolf | March 12, 2008 3:43 PM
I'll take a stab at this one:
Biscuits?
Posted by: Sven DiMilo | March 12, 2008 4:42 PM
There's also a fiesta of sorts in Chicago on March 22 @ 8pm @ Whiskey Road, 1935 N Damen Ave for all the Chicago/Midwest atheists.
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=9295791375
Posted by: Citizen Steve | March 12, 2008 5:37 PM
Faith requires attacks on reason.
Please note how often that theist arguments include something to undercut confidence in reason. For example, "atheism is a religion" is a peculiar looking attack since it's dumping on atheism by saying "you're no good; you're just like us". But, implicitly, it's attacking even the possibility of reason. If the theists can convince you that reason isn't any good, then they're free to disgorge their puke because criticism of it is impossible. As pathetic as it seems, religionists know that reason is their enemy.
Reason must be defended.
From our angle, rememeber this: "Faith is the greatest enemy that reason has." Then remember that reason explains why a shuttle launch works, why MRIs work, why computers work, why electric motors work,... and why we're not crapping in our water supply. Zeusdammit, reason is a virtue; faith is a vice. The fight with religion can be won if and only if reason is morally supported, and it's fundamental role in human life is asserted strongly in this culture. Just look at all the nonsense described in Carl Sagan's book "The Demon-Haunted World". We're awash in unreason because reason isn't understood or valued. Reason is the only cure for the delusions of faith.
Posted by: MelM | March 12, 2008 6:51 PM
At least get an A button or something. I bought some lapel pins last week and have been wearing one on my jacket. I've never been one to wear buttons etc but I'm really feeling good about this; I was able to wear it to the Dawkins presentation in Berkeley last Saturday evening.
I see the classy lapel pins aren't available at this time and I don't known if they are being discontinued or what.
http://richarddawkins.net/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2
Posted by: MelM | March 12, 2008 7:51 PM
Whoa! I had to do a double-take at your photo. You must have been in Rapid City, South Dakota, around the same time I was (or this church never changes its sign).
My own photo of the very same sign is here.
Posted by: Julia | March 12, 2008 7:54 PM
When people ask me (usually with a dropped jaw and incredulity) why I don't believe in their god, I tend to reply, "Because there is no evidence or need for his existence. If you used the reasoning ability your god supposedly put into your brain, you'd realize the same thing."
Posted by: MandyDax | March 12, 2008 8:17 PM
I saw this exact same sign a week or so ago in Lexington SC.
Posted by: dzho | March 12, 2008 11:41 PM
I'll take a stab at this one:
Biscuits?
Flaky goodness.
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | March 12, 2008 11:46 PM
South Dakota... South Carolina... Of COURSE they have to hate and fear reason! If they didn't, why would they be living in those states to begin with?
Posted by: jfatz | March 13, 2008 7:58 AM
I can't post on the blogger thread, so I'll post here in case somebody sees it.
A Pharyngulists meeting in the Head of Starch--I should have known Dave had had something to do with that one. I should be able to make that. There are numerous pubs in the area, but none that are likely to be less crowded on a Saturday night after the rugby. I think the Doric Thingy is probably your best bet. Closest are the Royal George and the Euston Flyer, either of which will have been showing the match as well. We'll surely sort something out.
Posted by: jim | March 14, 2008 6:23 AM