Pharyngula

God must really hate black people

A family of Minnesotans were involved in a horrific plane crash in the Congo.

Barry and Marybeth Mosier were on their way to visit their son Keith, 24, in Kinsangani, Congo, with two younger children when their plane crashed on takeoff Tuesday in Goma. At least 36 people died as the plane plowed through a market and burned. Most of the people who died were on the ground, according to the U.N. mission in DR Congo.

…Mosier said, he and his wife were carrying their son Andrew, 3, in the shoving “mass of humanity” trying to escape the burning plane. They got out through the opening in the fuselage.

“Outside the plane, she was wandering around. … It was total chaos,” he said. “People were screaming and yelling because the plane had landed on this market. All of a sudden, out of the blue, all of these people who were just standing there are now dead.

“So there’s parts of bodies and people burning and people screaming and yelling, and she was out there by herself.”

It sounds like a nightmarish event, and I’m glad they survived. I wish a few more people hadn’t died horrible, painful deaths in such a catastrophe, but this was a family of despicable missionaries, so you know what’s coming next.

“We couldn’t believe that our family of four could all escape a plane that was crashed and on fire, but by God’s mercy, we did,” he said.

Mosier said he believes the family made it for a reason.

“I think the Lord has a plan for us, otherwise we wouldn’t have survived,” he said. “He still has work for us to do.”

Their god has no mercy to spare for the innocent people in the market, of course, and their lives must have been totally useless for their god to be able to dispense with them in such a brutal fashion. Or perhaps they were wicked and deserved a flaming extinction with lots of fear and screaming?

In a just theistic world, I think their god would despise such smug, self-satisfied Christians.

Comments

  1. #1 Rey Fox
    April 16, 2008

    And then CNN puts that quote right up on the damn headline.

    Tell me again how badly Christianity is persecuted in the media?

  2. #2 Blake Stacey
    April 16, 2008

    MikeM for the win! :-)

  3. #3 Amplexus
    April 16, 2008

    “God doesn’t care about black people!” – W.E.B. Dubois

  4. #4 kcanadensis
    April 16, 2008

    Give ‘em a break; I’m sure they lament having been too late to save their poor pagan souls before they died.
    Ugh. I detest missionaries.

  5. #5 Bill
    April 16, 2008
  6. #6 Zifnab
    April 16, 2008

    I mean, I realize it’s not in the best taste or whatever. But when one has been through an ordeal like that, one has a strong tendency to express relief, to thank fate, your lucky stars, God, or Loki. I could say “thank God,” meaning absolutely nothing by it, except that I’m sure glad to be alive (as much as I may lament the fate of the others, come on, I’m glad I made it).

    Of course these people really are going beyond “thank God”, and trying to make themselves out to be chosen of God to live. So they do deserve criticism.

    Yikes, dude. They just survived a plane crash. If I just survived a plane crash, I’d be just emotionally jarred and physically shaken to start saying relatively insensitive things too.

    That CNN has time to cover plane crash survivors without giving two farts about the dozens killed doesn’t speak too highly for the Blitzers of the world, but what else is new? We could have talked about aircraft safety (especially after the American Airlines shutdown last week) or the perils of travel in third world countries or even the trivial “how to survive a plane crash” junk advice. Instead, we’ve got to talk about how Jay-sus saves and the Moisers take half damage. But that’s hardly the Moisers’ fault.

    Blaming the media for – once again – plumbing the depths of trivial nonsense is one thing. Blaming a religious family for expressing their religiousity, especially after they’ve just been confronted with their own mortality and then confronting a host of news cameras, is just silly. I mean, seriously, what would you have expected them to say? “Gee, its amazing that we lived while so many others died, but I’m going to rack this one up to fuselage integrity and excellent emergency piloting skills.”

    I mean, come on guys. There are far dumber things to be offended by. Especially in this day and age.

  7. #7 Donnie B.
    April 16, 2008

    Maybe the reason God kept them alive was so they could come to the realization that there are no gods.

  8. #8 Nic Nicholson
    April 16, 2008

    No, No, the missionaries have it all wrong. God loves the ones who DIED. He took ‘em back.

    It’s the ones he had no use for that he left here!

    Had god loved them, he’d have killed them. THEN they’d be able to say he cares.

  9. #9 Alex
    April 16, 2008

    Our (humans) need to assign agency where none exists helped us cope with our surroundings and interactions. That much I understand. But we know better now. It’s such a pity that so many need to make their way through reality clinging to comfortable myths.

    What’s terrifying is that they will die for and kill for their comfortable myths.

  10. #10 craig
    April 16, 2008

    “…religion seems to encourage this sort of narcissism…”

    Religion doesn’t encourage narcissism… religion IS narcissism.

    Religion is nothing more than that. “I couldn’t possibly be mortal. I couldn’t possibly be an unimportant assemblage of molecules from the universe’s perspective. There must be some outside reason or meaning for ME.”

    Religion is simply infantile narcissism – the need to be the center of the universe. Creating a god to make yourself more god-like.

  11. #11 BlueIndependent
    April 16, 2008

    Pan Demonium hits a really good pop-culture reference, especially regarding sports. The observation mixes quite well with the old adage that success has a thousand mothers (or was it fathers?), but failure is an orphan. I think the success angle says something about what the god complex is really all abbout. People want superstitious forces at their back at all times. They think they can draw some sort of power from believing in something they can’t see or prove exists. They even betray their own skill in attributing success to a god. But then, as has been pointed out, the god in question apparently plays favorites on quite the regular basis. If the Yankees win all the time, they’re God’s team. But if the underdog wins against the odds, well, God was “watching over them”.

    It’s really quite laughable. But this plane crash obviously is not. That never stopped someone from feeling themselves chosen above others simply because they barely cheated death. God has a plan indeed. Apparently the poor people down below do not factor into that plan at all.

  12. #12 Adam
    April 16, 2008

    I’m in a horrific 40 mph + 40 mph head-on collision, my mini-van against another mini-van, my four boys in the car with me. We all go to the hospital but suffer only minor injuries. The other family is okay too.

    My wife says, “God was with them.”

    “Bastard,” I think. (I also thought, “The divorce papers are in the mail, bitch.” It was post-traumatic stress. cut me some slack.)

  13. #13 mothra
    April 16, 2008

    @32, 36. Two of my favorite stories along these lines.

    Evensong- Lester Del Ray
    Shall the dust praise thee?- Damon Knight

  14. #14 RamblinDude
    April 16, 2008

    Anyway, what does all this have to do with Biology and evolution? illogic and superstition continuing to undermine science?

  15. #15 thalarctos
    April 16, 2008

    Maybe other people have done that they needed to get done on this planet and it was their time to go.

    Perhaps their surviving loved ones are better judges than you of whether their lives still had value on this planet.

    (gaaaah, now I need a long hot shower…..)

  16. #16 Epistaxis
    April 16, 2008

    Planet Killer, #64:

    Christians believe in something that is higher and have more support for when bad things happen.

    Denial is not a healthy form of support.

    Well, they were supposed to be dead and they are in perfect condition.

    No, when they got on the plane they expected to survive the trip and they did. Others were also planning to continue being alive, but now they’re not; there’s your miracle.

  17. #17 Rick T
    April 16, 2008

    Anyway, what does all this have to do with Biology and evolution? That’s right it doesn’t have anything to do with it. It is just pure hatred of people that believe in God.

    You read through the whole thing and just realized that this post was not about biology? The category was religion and that didn’t give it away? Why read it then?

    Maybe because you like to be abused. You know you will get treated like the dumbass you are by posting your dumbass shit here. But it’s not because we hate people who believe in God that we are blunt with them, it’s because we’ve learned that life without make believe is much better than one lived in la la land. That is a point that needs to be made unequivocally and often.

  18. #18 eewolf
    April 16, 2008

    PK,

    So that serial killer who survives a car wreck is saved by your god because he has more work to do? And that college student who lives, but can no longer walk after an accident, she has more work to do, but just on wheels. And that 2 month old baby that dies in a plane crash? Was he all done with his living?

    Vile indeed.

  19. #19 David Marjanovi?, OM
    April 16, 2008

    It is my opinion that we have goals or missions in this life and when those have been completed it is our time to go.

    And if that opinion were wrong, you would and could never find out that it is wrong.

    Neat, eh?

    The people who have died are probably in a better place anyway.

    How do you know?

    You don’t know. You only believe.

    Why do you think almost all people are angry when they have to come back to this world when they die and come back.

    What?

    Bad things happen to everyone, but the difference is that Christians believe in something that is higher and have more support for when bad things happen.

    I’ve often encountered the opposite sentiment here: Believers torture themselves with the question of what they had done to deserve a bad thing happen to them. Atheists don’t, because they think that random events are just that, not rewards or punishments.

  20. #20 Elwood Herring
    April 16, 2008

    Brokensoldier: ‘If God saved me and took my friend, then the only inference I can draw is that I was somehow meant to live and he wasn’t.’

    Let me tell a little personal story on that subject:

    I was brought up as a Catholic. 15 years ago I was veering towards agnosticism, when my best friend was diagnosed with liver cancer. He was married with a devoted wife and a 3 year old son, and had everything to live for, whereas I was single and suffering from depression. His cancer spread rapidly, to the extent that within 6 months the doctors gave him only weeks to live. During all that time I reinvestigated my faith. I prayed every day for him. I prayed to god to take me instead of him, and I was absolutely sincere in this. I wanted to take his place, as I felt my life was worthless whereas he had everything to live for.

    In April 1994 he died. I was at his bedside, his loving wife on the other side, weeping uncontrollably. (It hurts to write this, as it’s bringing it all back. But I have to continue.) I was devastated – he was a role model for me; although himself an atheist, he was a devoted husband and father, and would surely have made a name for himself as a scientist of some sort if he had been allowed to finish the degree he was working towards. He was just 33.

    Well, after that you can imagine my faith went right out of the window. How could god ignore my genuine unselfish prayer to take his place? The only answer I could come up with at the time was that his time was up; he was such a good man (and he was) that he was called straight to heaven.

    But in the months afterwards I started thinking; if that was the case, why did he suffer so much? His last few months were spent in extreme constant pain. He refused to take morphine as he was a believer in mind over matter, but even if he had taken the medication he would still have suffered. If god wanted him in heaven, why not just hit him with a bolt of lightning, or make him trip in front of a bus? Why did he have to suffer? Why put his wife (now a widow) through such torment? Why make his son grow up without his daddy? And why deprive me of my best friend?

    So – now I am a hard-boiled atheist. And if that is why god wanted me to live, then he really has shot himself in the foot, hasn’t he? He has let me live so I can continue to deny his existence. If he does exist, then he’s got some explaining to do when I eventually meet him.

  21. #21 Crudely Wrott
    April 16, 2008

    MikeM in comment #1: Man, you are fast out of the blocks. What a hole shot!

    This is typical of religious dogma’s nasty affect on rationality due primarily to the notion that one has a “close, personal relationship” with the creator of everything. The notion of special consideration and treatment spills over into all facets of life, particularly those that are later recalled by such revelatory statements as, “I have no idea why I didn’t die,” or, paraphrased from an AP story earlier today, “There is no reason for us to be alive.”

    The head cheese of the RCC came to America yesterday, and plans to do all sorts of wonderful stuff. A portion of the welcoming crowd were catholic high school students bussed in specially. Wire stories indicate that they waved, jumped up and down and screamed enthusiastically. Reminds me of when the Beatles came to America.

    This same head cheese is often described as a humble man. Interesting considering the RCC considers him the earthly incarnation of the precious savior who is also the creator. That is not humility, it is hubris, plain and simple. Kind of like a Hollywood hanger on talking about her “close, personal relationship with several of the most important producers. Oh, yeah? Do they return your calls?

  22. #22 David Marjanovi?, OM
    April 16, 2008

    Religion must have some survival value.
    Why else did it evolve?

    And it really can’t be a byproduct of something more useful?

  23. #23 rrt
    April 16, 2008

    Unfortunately, June, not everything is an adaptation. Evolution is riddled with mistakes, side effects, “unforseen” consequences, bizarre jury-rigs, etc. Check out the Kluge book that’s running through the ad cycles here at Scienceblogs.

  24. #24 craig
    April 16, 2008

    “Religion must have some survival value. Why else did it evolve?”

    Same could be asked about any of the other things humans have come up with. Cannibalism, nuclear weapons, ritual infanticide, poking each other with sharpened sticks, karaoke…

    Doesn’t mean they’re good things to have now even if they ever were.

    And if delusions have survival value, it doesn’t make them not delusions.

  25. #25 JimC
    April 16, 2008

    If you think bad things are happening now. You just wait. The world is going to get a lot worse. Most of it will have nothing to do with religion. We only see the begining of it with Global warming

    Bad things have always happened nitwit, so have good things.

    The world is a far, far better place today than it was 100 years ago. Which is better then the 100 before it.

    I never understand the ‘world is soooo bad’ crowd. It’s like they are wishing for the worst as they sit in the AC watching plasma screens all the while discussing how bad the world is today compared to past eras.

    Imbeciles.

  26. #26 jsn
    April 16, 2008

    /Religion must have some survival value.
    Why else did it evolve?/

    As a species of pattern seekers and the capacity to reason, perhaps any superstitious default explanation for phenomena allows us to keep from going insane when we cannot comprehend the true cause. I’m sure our penchant as animals to follow pack hierarchy is also at play. Religion may be a vestigial social and pre-intellectual response that is at odds with our modern knowledge/technology/understanding but it’s a comforting one.
    Since religion is culturally and institutionally condoned and even encouraged and that we indoctrinate children into each belief system before they can reason, and that it becomes entwined with our sense of goodness and belonging, it is amazing that so many are able to throw off this nonrational programming and recognise it as myth.

    Our ancestors needed mysticism to explain what they could not understand, but the social need is just as important for our modern culture as it was for them, too bad its based on a false premise.

  27. #27 Jsn
    April 16, 2008

    Planet Killer huh? Only if Planet= brain cells.
    Ignore this ass, he’s a waste of protoplasm.

  28. #28 Planet Killer
    April 16, 2008

    >Apparently your mission is to be a delusional nitwit.

    So when you don’t believe in what I posted all you can say is a comeback like this. How does this prove anything about your point of view other than you can insult people. Kids insult people but honestly I thought some people would be more intelligent than that.

    “I can insult someone, I must be smart!”

  29. #29 Colugo
    April 16, 2008

    Planet Killer, I also enjoyed Megiddo: The Omega 2, but it’s just a freakin’ movie.

  30. #30 Q
    April 16, 2008

    PK aks
    “Well, then millions of people. Do you honestly think that millions of people have lied or made a mistake? “

    Yes. Just like people do when they have a poor understanding of the situation they are trying to describe.

    PK mentions
    “Millions of people dying and coming back and saying that there is something over there. “

    No there aren’t “millions”. That is just puffery to artificially built up an argument based upon false premises.

  31. #31 Tulse
    April 16, 2008

    What if God really does exit and wants you to know him

    Then why doesn’t he just show himself? One manifestation of a thousand-foot-tall bearded man in robes in the middle of Times Square would make believers out of a lot of people. If God really wanted me to know him, he could have put a code into the DNA of all organisms that spells out “I made this. Signed, God”. He could have arranged the galaxies to form a picture of Jesus on the cross. He could have had Keira Knightley offer to have sex with me. Any one of those miracles would have convinced me.

    Instead, curiously, God is very shy (at least these days — funny that he was all into sea-parting and bush-burning back in the day, but not so much now). You say he wants us to know him, then hides so that the world seems completely run by natural physical laws. That’s odd, no? And more than odd, it’s downright nasty, since he’s hiding out, but will torture me for all eternity if I don’t see through his game. What a weird dude — you sure you want to worship someone like that?

  32. #32 JimC
    April 16, 2008

    It does not matter what science does. It will not save us from most of the world population from dying. There is going to be nuclear wars. The United States will be destroyed by nuclear weapons. We didn’t have those thousands or millions of years. We are not ready to take on the responsibility of our own technologies such as cloning, and weapons. Science isn’t going to save your world.

    Wow you really bring the crazy don’t you?

    When you are in a house that is being burned down by fire, it doesn’t matter that you don’t believe in fire because fire believes in you.

    Clueless analogy. I don’t have to believe in fire. I have senses that allow me to know it’s real just like every other ‘real’ thing. Great thing about reality it exists outside of belief.

    In other words, it doesn’t matter if you don’t believe in God because he is real and all of these things are going to come to pass and your life without love and caring for one another is the only thing you can give to people that matters. It is the only thing you can give people while you are on this earth that will make a difference when you are gone

    You have it half right. I’ll let you choose which half.

    And for the record I am a theist and you seem to be a bit, well, unstable.

  33. #33 Skemono
    April 16, 2008

    God must really hate black people

    So I am led to understand.

  34. #34 Skemono
    April 16, 2008

    Who said they are less worthy people?

    It is heavily implied when you say that your deity saved one group of people and let everyone else in the accident die.

    See that is the problem. You don’t understand or even get it. It’s like talking to a wall.

    Welcome to our reality. Pull up a chair and enjoy the stay.

    Who is killing people?

    Your god, mostly.

    I know this because the Bible says it and I believe it and also because the Bible is being backed up with people who die and never want to come back to earth again.

    So your big evidence is a book that can’t even keep its own story straight, and the hallucinations of a couple people who are medically dead (and whose numbers you radically inflate)? Oh, what fools we are to dismiss this!

    The afterlife gives meaning to what is in this existence. Life is precious.

    These statements seem contradictory. Saying that the afterlife is what’s important robs life of any preciousness.

  35. #35 Mike
    April 17, 2008

    Craig wrote: “…religion seems to encourage this sort of narcissism…” Religion doesn’t encourage narcissism… religion IS narcissism. Religion is nothing more than that. “I couldn’t possibly be mortal. I couldn’t possibly be an unimportant assemblage of molecules from the universe’s perspective. There must be some outside reason or meaning for ME.” Religion is simply infantile narcissism – the need to be the center of the universe. Creating a god to make yourself more god-like.

    Damn well said.

  36. #36 Art
    April 17, 2008

    A plane crashes into a Congolese market. People die horribly. A group of ridiculous, self-satisfied and self-righteous missionaries who were in the market avoid any harm.

    God, presumably in charge of every little detail, kills dozens of poor people who are innocently trading to survive and, he/she/it, in all its omnipotence, omniscience and mercy, leaves this obnoxious group of social parasites to lord their self-righteousness and moral superiority over the traumatized survivors and maimed.

    Talk about pouring salt into wounds.

    Christians worship a sadistically cruel image of God.

    I guess it goes along with the sadistically cruel and malevolent Christians. What does it mean when the the God the worshipers worship reflects back the attitudes, prejudices and distorted mentality of the worshipers?

  37. #37 Ted Powell
    April 17, 2008

    While searching for the quote in #135, I stumbled across http://www.positiveatheism.org/ which some people may find interesting.

  38. #38 Planet Killer
    April 17, 2008

    >Those people need a reality check courtesy of Johnny Cash.
    >I always think of that song when I see people patting
    >themselves on the back thinking that they are special
    >because they survived.

    Let me type this slowly as you don’t get it so I might have to type it five times for you to understand. They were not happy that the other people died. They are happy to be alive because they still have a purpose on this earth. The people that died were not worthless. They died because they furfilled their goals in life. That does not make their lives meaningless than anyone else. Whoever we are there are goals that need to be met while we are on this earth. When those goals are completed we can then move on to the next part of life which is the afterlife.
    Life is not meaningless it is precious. However when your goals are met and we can move on that is what happens.

    Want me to post this all again in big letters so you can understand it?

    >Oh, and PK, the 70′s are over.

    It doesn’t matter what is in the 70′s. Death happens all the time and because of all free will we can die earlier than when we were supposed to die. This is because what we have to do is not yet done on earth. This is why people die and come back and tell what is going on over there. There is scientific research being done on this with all of these people who are eyewitnesses to the facts.

    Good try troll, but you made yourself look foolish. Thanks for playing.

  39. #39 brokenSoldier
    April 17, 2008

    “Don’t judge what you do not know and do not understand.”

    PK, you are arguing a point here that is patently false, due to the fact that most Americans grew up with some sort of religious indoctrination. I grew up in the Catholic church, and I’m sure many of the atheists who comment on these boards were believers at one point or another, whether it was in the childhood or not. So the only one here who has no idea as to the mindset of the other side, my friend, is you. The difference is that we (atheists) have been exposed to and taught religious doctrine, and simply disagree. So a majority of us definitely do know exactly what we are talking about, and I would venture to say that many on here know a great deal more about faith than even you do. In fact, in my case alone, I have studied all five of the world’s major organized religions, both in academia and in my personal life. And a cursory reading of history will show you that organized religion has spent a great deal of time and resources throughout the last two millennia stifling education and scientific advancement. So next time, be careful casting stones — the glass house you’re casting them from might not stand up to rebuttal.

  40. #40 Kseniya
    April 17, 2008

    Patience Killer is at it again, I see.

    o_O

  41. #41 maxi
    April 17, 2008

    Because if there are creepy baby-people, I think I prefer to believe I’m just a bag of atoms…

    Posted by: Ben | April 17, 2008 4:21 AM

    Creep baby people! ROFL that is the funniest thing I’ve heard all day.

    Where did truthmachine go? I think we scared him off with that Molly nod. He would be useful against the likes of PK, though I think everyone here is doing an excellent job bending over backwards to treat him better than the troll he is. I don’t have the patience, alas.

  42. #42 J.
    April 17, 2008

    Part of it could be ignorance. People in ignorant societies love to stop and gawk at catastrophes or impending catastrophes, even if it puts them at risk. This isn’t limited to black people, either — you’ll see the same phenomenon in the Middle East and India. Crowds will gather around a bomb squad as they try to deactivate a bomb, for instance. Too funny.

  43. #43 Elwood Herring
    April 17, 2008

    In case the point of my last post was lost, I’ll hammer it home.

    This is the Internet. Anyone, anywhere in the world, can read your comments. That is, anyone of any country, ethnic group, religion, whatever. What do you think muslims in eastern Europe will make of your comments about “your” god? Hindus in India and Pakistan? Etc. etc.

    People tend to be indoctrinated with the religion of their own ethnic group, and end up taking their god with them wherever they go. However, this is the Internet, as I said. Everybody (pontentially) is here. Why should your god be special?

    “We are all atheists about most of the gods that ever existed. Some of us just go one god further” – Richard Dawkins.

    And I’ll conclude with some relevant Jethro Tull lyrics:

    Oh people – what have you done -
    locked Him in His golden cage.
    Made Him bend to your religion -
    Him resurrected from the grave.
    He is the god of nothing -
    if that’s all that you can see.
    You are the god of everything
    He’s inside you and me.

    So lean upon Him gently
    and don’t call on Him to save you
    from your social graces
    and the sins you used waive.
    The bloody Church of England -
    in chains of history -
    requests your earthly presence at
    the vicarage for tea.
    And the graven image you – know – who -
    with His plastic crucifix -
    he’s got him fixed -
    confuses me as to who and where and why -
    as to how he gets his kicks.
    Confessing to the endless sin -
    the endless whining sounds.
    You’ll be praying till next Thursday to
    all the gods that you can count.

  44. #44 James
    April 17, 2008

    Dear God, you must be joking, right? I don’t see the guy thanking God for killing all those innocents. According to your perception, they died a totally random and pointless death, so your perception of the event can equally be mocked for the sheer stupidity of it. The missionary said he’s thankful God spared their lives, not that God caused a horrible plane crash and intentionally murdered all of the spectators in the marketplace. You need to learn how to use equivalence in your arguments, because they’re honestly disgraceful.

  45. #45 Mena
    April 17, 2008

    PK, who apparently doesn’t like Johnny Cash and seems to have some anger management issues, comment 142:
    “Let me type this slowly as you don’t get it so I might have to type it five times for you to understand. …Want me to post this all again in big letters so you can understand it?…Good try troll, but you made yourself look foolish. Thanks for playing.”

    I have to quote that great philosopher who wrote in comment #101:
    “So when you don’t believe in what I posted all you can say is a comeback like this. How does this prove anything about your point of view other than you can insult people. Kids insult people but honestly I thought some people would be more intelligent than that.

    “I can insult someone, I must be smart!”"

    LULZ! I got insulted by a guy who believes in millions of people have life after death experiences. I feel so (sic) furfilled.

  46. #46 Tovi
    April 17, 2008

    I come from the small island of Puerto Rico, where we are bombarded by hurricanes every year, and we’re lucky enough to be placed in a high pressurea area where most of the hurricanes either pass south or north of us. Being a highly catholic country, every year I have to listent to the same insane argument as to how “our island is blessed” and that is why the hurricane never hit us. Never mind that it hit and killed many people in the neighboring island of Dominican Republic, Cuba or the Virgin Islands. It’s as if we’re blessed, but all other islands are the devils work and deserved it.

  47. #47 Carlie
    April 17, 2008

    You know what I find so offensive here? It’s not that people don’t believe that there is no God. They can believe in whatever they want to. The thing that is so offensive is that they make huge judgements and really don’t understand the simplest of all concepts of what is in the Bible or what is behind those beliefs.Don’t judge what you do not know and do not understand.

    You know what I find so offensive with you? Let me explain…no, it would take too long, let me sum up. A huge percentage of the people here come from religious backgrounds. Not just nominally religious, C&E attenders, but wholesale hardcore religious. Many of them know the Bible a lot better than you do. They know not just the history, background, and beliefs not just of their religion, but of others as well. You can’t just dismiss people who don’t agree with you as being ignorant of your subject. It’s not true.

    And what about those aliens?

  48. #48 Scooty Puff, Jr.
    April 17, 2008

    When I read the post, in my mind I heard,

    God has a plan for you, Gaius.

  49. #49 MS
    April 17, 2008

    I’ve often thought that if I were, say, a fireman or lifeguard who had just risked my own live to save someone and they immediately gave the credit to God, I would throw them back in.

  50. #50 tsg
    April 17, 2008

    “There but for the grace of god go I” is just another way of saying “There by the grace of god goes someone else.”

  51. #51 Chris Adams
    April 17, 2008

    karen: “there aren’t any Christian children starving!”

    You have to remember that people like that define Christian to mean “other people who believe exactly what I personally believe”. The JWs acknowledge widespread suffering – it’s considered one of the signs that we’re right at the point where our loving heavenly father is going to kill us all if we don’t shape up.

  52. #52 George Thompson
    April 17, 2008

    Christians or so-called Christians always say “by the grace of God” when something favorable happens to them. I didn’t realize God was so choosy but then they say God loves all of us. If that is true then why do so many people people of all races get the short end of the stick all over this planet? Oh that’s right they’re lazy, good-for-nothing foreigners who hate war. It’s a simple as this. Black people really believe in a god. White believe they are God. They are both delusional. God bless America and no place else!

  53. #53 scarshapedstar
    April 17, 2008

    Oh, God’s saving them for a purpose, all right. He’s saving them so that a 747 full of black people can crash on top of them and all 600 passangers can walk away.

  54. #54 alex
    April 17, 2008

    planet killer – for your reference:

    http://www.users.bigpond.com/tstex/Kluvers2.jpeg
    (common visual hallucinatory patterns – like tunnels)

    http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/moments/s1866095.htm
    it’s not just being near death that initiates NDEs. high G-forces produce the same hallucinatory effects, as does stimulating the left or right angular gyrus.

    also (apologies for not being able to immediately reference this, i’m sure others will know of this though) i remember a hospital putting LED displays with messages over the patients’ beds, so that “out of body” experiences should have left the messages easily visible. not one of the many patients who reported an NDE or Out-of-body so much as mentioned the existence of the messages when looking down at themselves.

    sadly, you should realise that if you’re going to accept the eyewitness evidence of millions of people – these eyewitnesses were all either brain-dead, oxygen-starved, or terminally ill for the entire duration of their witnessing. hardly that reliable, and hardly evidence for a Judeo-Christian afterlife in particular.

  55. #55 henri.b
    April 17, 2008

    Long time lurker, first time poster.

    Before I became an athiest, I was a missionary with a fundamentalist church. It was this sort of blatant arrogance and self righteous narcissism in our group that caused me to begin to be skeptical. We would have discussions about the suffering in the world, and they would reason that God must be punishing people for their sins. I was shocked by their lack of empathy, and I soon realized that I didn’t even believe in a personal god. After that realization, it took only several months for me to abandon my belief in god completely.

  56. #56 Holbach
    April 17, 2008

    Planet Killer: You are Expelled!

  57. #57 thalarctos
    April 17, 2008

    The missionary said he’s thankful God spared their lives, not that God caused a horrible plane crash and intentionally murdered all of the spectators in the marketplace. You need to learn how to use equivalence in your arguments, because they’re honestly disgraceful.

    Are you familiar at all with basic logic? If you are, then you know that:

    A => B

    means

    !B => !A

    The missionaries are saying that the fact that God has further plans for them (A) means they were spared (B). Therefore, the fact that all the others were not spared (!B) means that God has no further plans for them (!A).

    “Planet Killer” goes on to compound that basic arrogance by supposing, in the total absence of any evidence of his assertion, that despite any plans they may have had, or any grief, caring, or missing of the dead by their surviving loved ones, that they must have “furfilled” their purpose on this planet. That almost-palpable smarmy knowing-better-than-they-do, in-the-absence-of-any-independently-verifiable-evidence, attitude is only one of the many reasons my Cambodian teacher refers to the missionaries who flocked to the Southeast Asian refugee camps as “vultures”.

    “Planet Killer” is getting his ass handed to him here because he doesn’t even have the level of moral development of chimpanzees, who have been observed to demonstrate more altruism and empathy than he apparently is capable of, and as an advertisement for the transforming power of Christianity in his life, he’s doing a truly sucky job of making the sale, because no one here would want to settle for what he’s pushing.

  58. #58 Ryan
    April 17, 2008

    Maybe Satan was really the one that saved them so that they could live to partake of his delicious feast of souls!

  59. #59 MikeM
    April 17, 2008

    Well, now the death toll has risen to 44, and they think they’ve identified at least two causes: A runway shortened from 2.11 miles to .87 miles, and a tire blowout on takeoff.

    The runway was shortened because the volcano erupted, and lava flowed over the runway. That I can understand, because, clearly, tectonic forces dwarf God’s power (proof of this assertion to follow).

    The flat tire, however… I don’t know why God didn’t just prevent that. I mean, Hell, even Chevrolets have run-flat tires.

    (There’s the proof. If God cannot stop a flat tire, do you REALLY think he can halt plate tectonics? Okay, if you think so, explain how. Thank you.)

    Other news reports credit UN peacekeeping forces with rescuing the occupants of the aircraft.

    But the fact that God could not prevent a tire from blowing out… Omnipresent, all-powerful, all-loving, unable to repair a vulcanized tire.

    Let that be a lesson to us.

    Here’s the USA Today update.

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-04-17-congo-plane_N.htm

  60. #60 kmarissa
    April 17, 2008

    I love the implication that because the victims were no longer useful to God, he had ‘em whacked. But seriously, here’s the system in a nutshell:

    Does Godly stuff, lives long time: Rewarded by God for labors, “spared”.

    Does Godly stuff, dies young: Fulfilled purpose, “called home”.

    Does ungodly stuff, lives long time: Free will, God is giving chance to repent.

    Does ungodly stuff, dies young: Punished for sins.

    See? It works! And if you get confused, there’s really just one phrase you have to remember – no matter what happens or how unfair the world is, say, “God works in mysterious ways.”

  61. #61 Elwood Herring
    April 17, 2008

    Well it is quite well-known that a simple lightning rod can defeat the power of a lightning strike. When lightning rods were first invented, the Catholic church refused to fit them to church spires as lightning was considered the direct (and quite personal) wrath of god.

    So all the churches (without rods) were hit, and in some cases destroyed, while the town brothels (which had rods fitted) were not touched. Proof positive of the limit of god’s power, I think. If a simple strip of metal can deflect his almighty wrath…?

    (Thank you Isaac Asimov for this little tidbit of history)

  62. #62 DaveKan
    April 17, 2008

    This is the part of religious belief that I just can’t understand. How are they able to do the mental gymnastics to say something like this without understanding what they are implying about the people that died? If you lived and someone else died in the same event and you say that god decided to save you, then that means that he also decided to NOT save the other person. But it is all part of some great mysterious plan that we can’t understand!

    Why can’t they break through the tissue paper thickness of this statement to see how ridiculous this thinking is?

  63. #63 MikeM
    April 17, 2008

    I think I may know why God didn’t want to fix that flat, though: He was afraid He might break a Nail.

    Oh, my, that was sacriligious. Next train, I’m goin’ to Hell.

  64. #64 Gav
    April 17, 2008

    Well I guess most people would have pretty mixed feelings about surviving this sort of carnage so as a coping strategy it might have something going for it.

    More generally, for dealing with acute life-threatening situations [only] I’d testify for OSHIT.

    Many years ago, when my eyesight was less fuzzy than it is now and I saw fewer ghosts, I used to fly aeroplanes. I was never much good as a pilot and got into lots of scrapes but OSHIT would always get me and my passengers out of danger.

    I was potholing once in Yorkshire and lost my hold on a difficult pitch. I called on OSHIT and landed on a ledge a few feet below!

    I have survived motorcycle crashes, encounters with people with guns in odd parts of the world, and (appropriately enough) some very nasty bouts of food poisoning, all after invoking OSHIT.

    I don’t exactly believe in OSHIT. Some people might say that OSHIT has a purpose for me, which is why it has preserved me so far. I don’t know anything about that. If OSHIT does exist, then it’s a singularly uncommunicative, and undemanding, entity. But the evidence speaks for itself. Oh, you can talk about post hoc, Type 1 errors, publication biasand all that fancy kind of thing. What I do know for sure is that OSHIT has never let me down.

    Maybe it will work for you.

  65. #65 Kitty
    April 17, 2008

    DaveKan

    “This is the part of religious belief that I just can’t understand.”

    Lucky you. I can’t understand any of it.

  66. #66 SteveM
    April 17, 2008

    As much as I love Asimov, I suspect that story is more a product of his well known sense of humor than actual history. I could be wrong about that, but it seems to conflict with the fact that Franklin invented the lightning rod specifically to protect church steeples from lightning strikes.

  67. #67 khan
    April 17, 2008

    Just curious…so when babies die and go to heaven (or wherever) to live eternally, do they keep their baby personalities or just their baby bodies? Are there a bunch of babies walking around and talking like adults? Can we ask one of those millions of people? Because if there are creepy baby-people, I think I prefer to believe I’m just a bag of atoms…

    And what of the miscarriages, abortions, molar pregnancies, unimplanted fertilized eggs…

  68. #68 RamblinDude
    April 17, 2008

    Well it is quite well-known that a simple lightning rod can defeat the power of a lightning strike. When lightning rods were first invented, the Catholic church refused to fit them to church spires as lightning was considered the direct (and quite personal) wrath of god.

    In his series “Connections” James Burke relates an incident in which a pastor insisted that gunpowder stored in his church, with its towering steeple pointing to the sky, would be perfectly safe without lightning rods.

    I don’t remember how many died in the explosion.

    It may have been…”In 1769, a lightning bolt struck the tower of St. Nazaire in Brescia, where 100 tons of gunpowder were stored. The resulting explosion destroyed one-sixth of the city and killed 3000 people. Lightning-induced explosions of stored gunpowder continued through the 1800′s”

    or

    “As late as 1856, lightning struck the church of St. Jean on the island of Rhodes, the powder stored in the vaults exploded, and 4000 were killed.”

    http://www.exploratorium.edu/ronh/weather/weather.html

  69. #69 MikeM
    April 17, 2008

    Here’s an example of the types of activities I’d prefer to see missionaries engage in:

    http://bugleobserver.canadaeast.com/lifestyle/article/264723

    I suspect this is rare behavior.

  70. #70 Skemono
    April 17, 2008

    As much as I love Asimov, I suspect that story is more a product of his well known sense of humor than actual history. I could be wrong about that, but it seems to conflict with the fact that Franklin invented the lightning rod specifically to protect church steeples from lightning strikes.

    Maybe so, but that doesn’t mean that the churches complied. I read an article in the New York Times some years back on how much the lightning rod enraged the religious back when it came out.

  71. #71 Andreas Johansson
    April 17, 2008

    Part of it could be ignorance. People in ignorant societies love to stop and gawk at catastrophes or impending catastrophes, even if it puts them at risk. This isn’t limited to black people, either — you’ll see the same phenomenon in the Middle East and India. Crowds will gather around a bomb squad as they try to deactivate a bomb, for instance. Too funny.

    Is there anywhere people don’t behave like this? I’d like to think my native Sweden is comparatively enlightened place, but I’ve seen the same kind of behaviour here.

  72. #72 Elwood Herring
    April 17, 2008

    I can’t remember in which Asimov book I read it, otherwise I would have quoted directly. As I have two whole shelves full of nothing but Asimov books, I just couldn’t be bothered.

    Skemono has hit the nail on the head, I think. Franklin may well have invented the thing to protect churches, but he may have had a hard time selling it to them.

    I remember reading a news item not long ago where everybody sheltered in a church during an earthquake – and the church ended up collapsing on top of everybody inside. Seems god must have judged them all as unworthy of his compassion, despite the obvious assumption that they must have been praying their asses off in there. Of course, as I mentioned earlier, you never hear from the ones who “god” turned his back on, because they’re dead. All you are left with invariably is survivors who spout the tired old “god favours me” rhetoric. Absolutely shameful.

  73. #73 roystgnr
    April 17, 2008

    Well, they were supposed to be dead and they are in perfect condition.

    No, they were supposed to have a safe, uneventful flight, but they were nearly killed.

    That is a little bit more than something bad happening to them. Therefore their time is not up yet and they are ment to do something and finish their work here on earth.

    Are you sure? In general, if someone were to take action that caused me to be grazed by death, I would interpret that as a “warning shot”, and I would stop my work until I figured out what I’d done to piss that someone off, or until that someone was safely locked behind bars. Now, in the hypothetical case that that Someone was God, the “behind bars” solution might not be an option, but I think the rest of my “stop what you’re doing, lest the next shot is aimed to kill” interpretation would be worth considering.

  74. #74 Elwood Herring
    April 17, 2008

    Found it – it’s “The Fateful Lightning”, published in 1971 and included in “The Stars in Their Courses” – a good read, I recommend it.

  75. #75 G in INdiana
    April 17, 2008

    It’s the same thing as the idiot sports people praising god for their excellent golf game or latest football victory. Sure and god hated ALL the other people in the competition that day. Of course, usually the next week, god comes back and smacks them in the ass with a total boner golf game or devastating crushing at the gridiron.
    Things, good or bad, happen, not for any reason. They just happen.

  76. #76 karen
    April 17, 2008

    #181 Chris Adams, indeed; the unthinking, infantile arrogance of statements such as, “Jesus loves me”, “God will take care of us”, “thank God for choosing to spare me”, etc., makes me wonder if the people saying these things ever stop to actually think about what such statements imply.

  77. #77 Planet Killer
    April 17, 2008

    >The missionaries are saying that the fact that God has
    >further plans for them (A) means they were spared (B).
    >Therefore, the fact that all the others were not spared (!
    >B) means that God has no further plans for them (!A).

    After all of the postings you still don’t get it. Are you a mental midget or what?

    Earth is a learning ground where we learn and we have goals to complete. Once these goals are completed and we that love God will go to a much better place. Think of it as the ultimate retirement home but in the ultimate way imaginable.

    Death isn’t the end of something you moron, it is the beggining of a new life. You still learn and you still work on things but in a new life that you can live eternally in peace.

    So a much better life than you can get here but you are still continue to progress.

    When I die things will be so much better than they are here. There are no tears, sickness, war, famine. Just pure love and peace and you get to continue learning.

    It is not a bad thing like you are making it out to be.
    The Christians were spared but only for a short time and they too will die. We all will die. Not one of us can escape this. Science can prolong it, but it is going to come for all of us.

    I see where Atheists believe that God is some kind of spegetti monster figure who doesn’t exist and our need for God is somehow programmed into us and it’s all just myths and fantasy. However, I am trying to say that I don’t believe any of that (well the God programmed part might be true). God is alive. He allows you to continue belleiving the lie you have told yourself.

  78. #78 Carlie
    April 17, 2008

    Hi, Planet Killer! You still haven’t answered my question. Are aliens real, or are eyewitness accounts sometimes unreliable?

  79. #79 Kseniya
    April 17, 2008

    Just pure love and peace and you get to continue learning.

    Learning what? How to make the perfect existence even better?

  80. #80 Nick Gotts
    April 17, 2008

    When I die things will be so much better than they are here. – Planet Killer

    Well yes, certainly, for those who will no longer have to put up with you.

  81. #81 MAJeff, OM
    April 17, 2008

    God is alive. He allows you to continue belleiving the lie you have told yourself.

    Evidence, please.

  82. #82 David Marjanovi?, OM
    April 17, 2008

    Well, they were supposed to be dead and they are in perfect condition.

    No, they were supposed to have a safe, uneventful flight, but they were nearly killed.

    This is the funny thing about modern Christian fundies: most of them no longer believe in the God without Whose decision not a single sparrow falls out of the sky — instead, nature runs its course, completely of the almost deistic God Who just created it and set in motion, and sometimes God ineffably chooses to interfere, while at other times He ineffably chooses not to.

    More tomorrow. Just so much now: about 15 years ago I read a pretty detailed summary of an eyewitness account of a near-death experience that included the Muslim paradise, with the four rivers and all that jazz. Also, seeing dark is an effort; when you run out of oxygen, you will sooner or later see light, more and more light. I’ll try to explain that.

  83. #83 David Marjanovi?, OM
    April 17, 2008

    After all of the postings you still don’t get it. Are you a mental midget or what?

    Your logic is still circular, and it’s still not falsifiable even in principle, meaning, as I pointed out yesterday, that, if you were wrong, you could never find out that you were wrong.

    Science can prolong it

    Science can interfere with Almighty God’s own decisions? When you have fulfilled your purpose, you die, except if modern medicine pushes God’s power back to a later date??? Aren’t you blaspheming, by your own criteria?

    I think you have never thought this through.

    our need for God is somehow programmed into us

    Then I suppose I’d have one. But I don’t have any religious urges. And I’m not exactly alone in this.

  84. #84 David Marjanovi?, OM
    April 17, 2008

    Good night for now. (You see, this is not America — I’m sitting in Paris, France.)

  85. #85 Rey Fox
    April 17, 2008

    “Are you a mental midget or what?”

    Oh there you go, insulting people, you intolerant little intolerant. Jeez, what a Nazi you are, what total hatred you have for atheists. Help, I’m being repressed!

    “Earth is a learning ground where we learn and we have goals to complete. Once these goals are completed and we that love God will go to a much better place. Think of it as the ultimate retirement home but in the ultimate way imaginable.”

    You say all this as if you knew it.

    And anyway, if this were true, then why do we have to live on Earth first? Why are these supposed goals important?

    “I see where Atheists believe that God is some kind of spegetti monster figure who doesn’t exist and our need for God is somehow programmed into us and it’s all just myths and fantasy. However, I am trying to say that I don’t believe any of that (well the God programmed part might be true).”

    Actually, since so many people on the earth believe in multiple gods, and quite a few in no deities at all, then the programming is rather suspect, too.

  86. #86 Ichthyic
    April 17, 2008

    And anyway, if this were true, then why do we have to live on Earth first? Why are these supposed goals important?

    why ask why?

  87. #87 windy
    April 17, 2008

    Think of it as the ultimate retirement home but in the ultimate way imaginable.

    Ultimate shuffleboard? Ultimate bingo?

  88. #88 MAJeff, OM
    April 17, 2008

    Think of it as the ultimate retirement home but in the ultimate way imaginable.

    Ultimate shuffleboard? Ultimate bingo?

    Ultimate lying in bed unable to recognize anyone or care for yourself.

  89. #89 Nick Gotts
    April 17, 2008

    nature runs its course, completely of the almost deistic God Who just created it and set in motion, and sometimes God ineffably chooses to interfere, while at other times He ineffably chooses not to. – David Marjanovi?, OM

    Think of it as a computer game. He sets it running, and he’s got a few buttons to press to alter the course of events, but he can’t attend to everything that’s going on at once, so most of it just takes its preprogrammed trajectory. And sometimes, of course, his Dad calls him for tea, or his Mum comes in and tells him to get on with his homework, and he just leaves it running. That’s the only way I can make sense of it.

    What’s the “OM” by the way? Order of Merit?

  90. #90 thalarctos
    April 17, 2008

    After all of the postings you still don’t get it. Are you a mental midget or what?

    Ironic, coming from you. I can see where basic logic frightens and confuses you, though.

  91. #91 thalarctos
    April 17, 2008

    Death isn’t the end of something you moron, it is the beggining of a new life.

    “You moron”–is that an example of that “Christian love” you people are always going on and on about?

  92. #92 windy
    April 17, 2008

    Think of it as a computer game. He sets it running, and he’s got a few buttons to press to alter the course of events, but he can’t attend to everything that’s going on at once, so most of it just takes its preprogrammed trajectory. And sometimes, of course, his Dad calls him for tea, or his Mum comes in and tells him to get on with his homework, and he just leaves it running. That’s the only way I can make sense of it.

    God must be playing Lemmings. I wonder how many he needs to “save” to clear this level.

  93. #93 Rey Fox
    April 17, 2008

    “why ask why?”

    Try Bud Dry.

  94. #94 aimless wonderer
    April 18, 2008

    what is the meaning of life?

  95. #95 Rey Fox
    April 18, 2008

    The great taste of Bud Dry, of course.

  96. #96 Jenny
    April 18, 2008

    “So there’s parts of bodies and people burning and people screaming and yelling, and she was out there by herself.”

    There are people screaming and yelling and she was out there by herself? So, the people who were screaming and yelling didn’t count? The guy who helped getting them out of the plane didn’t count?

    Not that the fact that those non-people people were black can have had anything to do with it. Oh, no.

  97. #97 Strakh
    April 18, 2008

    Oooooo, Planet Killer, you devastatingly magnificent example of a true warrior for Almighty God (at least in that tiny little piece of shit rattling around in your otherwise empty head) you’re back!
    And again you make statements, hurl accusations, and snarl insults to people whose asses you aren’t fit to lick.
    I, as others have done time, time, time, time, and yet time again, issue you one simple challenge:

    Produce even one quark of evidence for any of the disgusting shit you are vomiting onto this blog.

    Evidence, you snarky little turd. Have your mama (whose basement you obviously reside in) read the definition of evidence to you. Then produce it. Now. Here. Once and for all.
    Otherwise, STFU. Because until you do, you’re just another wanker troll trying to take on people of sense, knowledge, and learning.
    And Planet Killer, you are woefully underqualified on every single count.

  98. #98 David Marjanovi?, OM
    April 18, 2008

    What’s the “OM” by the way? Order of Merit?

    Better.

  99. #99 Elwood Herring
    April 18, 2008

    Belief in an afterlife is usually the refuge of the dreamer who can’t find a place for him/herself in this (the only) life, or can’t handle reality. Fact it, PK, this it; this life you are living now, is the ONLY life you will get a shot at.

    My late friend (who I mentioned earlier, #81, go and READ IT) said that if there was an afterlife, then he would do all he could to contact us after his death. Guess what – there’s been nothing. He’s gone, and everybody who knew him has had to come to terms with that. But while he lived, he made the most of his life, and I still respect his memory for that shining example.

    You only get one shot at this life. Don’t throw it away dreaming for a better “afterlife” ‘cos it ain’t gonna happen.

    But hey – Pascal’s wager, right? There is always a tiny tiny chance that I’m wrong, and there actually is life after death. But in that case, I’ve lost nothing by living my present life to the full, have I? I’m certainly not going to waste it by clinging on to superstition and dogma built up by 2000 years’ worth of deluded dreamers.

    And one other thing; insults are the last refuge of the incompetent who doesn’t realise he’s lost the argument.

  100. #100 Nick Gotts
    April 18, 2008

    Re #229. Much better! Maximum respect!

  101. #101 Malcolm
    April 18, 2008

    aimless wonderer,

    The answer is 42.

    Now go find the question.

  102. #102 christyk
    April 18, 2008

    Great posts (mostly) people. It’s always nice to see a long thread filled with (mostly) rational thoughts.

    Broken Soldier,

    I know it’s slow but I’m sending best wishes, love and support, and whatever other good thoughts will squeeze through the Internets’ tubes in your direction. Spend as much time as you can with people who make you feel good. Take each day for what it is and then just let it go. Feel better.

  103. #103 George Cauldron
    April 18, 2008

    Planet Killer said yesterday:

    “I can insult someone, I must be smart!”

    Planet Killer said today:

    Are you a mental midget or what?

    Death isn’t the end of something you moron, it is the beggining of a new life.

    Bravo for raising the tone so nobly.

    Anyway, about this:

    Death isn’t the end of something you moron, it is the beggining of a new life. You still learn and you still work on things but in a new life that you can live eternally in peace.

    Now, you see, PK, one thing you plainly don’t understand is that it’s not valid to call people ‘morons’ for not believing something for which you have absolutely no evidence.

    Answer me this: why are we ‘morons’ for not buying YOUR religious beliefs? Why doesn’t rejecting Hinduism or Islam or Buddhism make us ‘morons’?

    Remember, “because I know I’m right” doesn’t count as an answer.

  104. #104 brokenSoldier
    April 18, 2008

    I know it’s slow but I’m sending best wishes, love and support, and whatever other good thoughts will squeeze through the Internets’ tubes in your direction. Spend as much time as you can with people who make you feel good. Take each day for what it is and then just let it go. Feel better.
    Posted by: christyk | April 18, 2008 12:42 PM

    christyk, hearts and minds like yours and the others who have made such comments make it absolutely worth doing every bit of what I did, even considering the consequences I now live with. From the bottom of my heart, thank you for your comments and sentiments, for they offer me infinitely more reassurance and comfort than any religion could ever hope to extend.

  105. #105 windy
    April 18, 2008
    What’s the “OM” by the way? Order of Merit?

    Better.

    Maybe better, but also 3 months out of date, hint, hint…

  106. #106 Th King
    April 21, 2008

    you dispicabl atheist murders hopw dare youi impact you uncontrolled deathly thinking upon others, explain it their is no God then tell me was this all meaningless are we all doomed to die fading away into the distance as simple particles with nohing to look forward to in life, when people die are they truly dead, gone forever will you really take that wasay from them.

  107. #107 Laser Potato
    April 22, 2008

    Why don’t you place a priority on having a better quality of life rather than being obessesed about the AFTERlife? Seriously.