…and this is a 
Expelled draws more aggro
Category: Creationism
Posted on: April 15, 2008 8:39 PM, by PZ Myers
How stupid can they get? First it's discovered that the makers of the stupid propaganda movie were stealing some of their cell animations from XVIVO, and now it is revealed that other segments were ripped off from PBS. It's as if there isn't a single bit of creativity in the whole movie — they can't even lie imaginatively.
In related news, here's something really weird. Expelled is suing XVIVO! Oh, and take note of the bizarre complaint that I've put in bold in the middle of this freaky press release:
Premise Media is ready to challenge the unfounded copyright infringement claims asserted recently by representatives of XVIVO, LLC concerning original animation Premise Media created for the documentary, EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed.
On April 14, 2008, Premise Media filed a lawsuit in the United States District Court for the Northern District of Texas seeking declaratory judgment that there is no copyright or other infringement. Premise Media also seeks its attorneys' fees in responding to the XVIVO claims.
The suit results from unfounded claims recently made by representatives of XVIVO. These claims have received wide distribution as part of an ongoing campaign attempting to discredit the film and its producers.
Premise Media has also learned of grass root efforts that are underway to try to influence the ranking of internet searches regarding Expelled by those wanting to learn about the film. Their stated goal is an attempt to counter-site those searchers to other websites that criticize the themes in the movie.
"We are not surprised that opponents of our film are attempting to interfere with its important message. As the movie documents, similar tactics are being used across the country against many of the researchers, scientists, and professors who want to engage in free debate within science but have inadequate resources to challenge the Establishment. However, we do have the platform to confront the 'thought police,' and we will work tirelessly to open the doors of free speech and inquiry," said Executive Producer and Premise Chairman Logan Craft.
Executive Producer Walt Ruloff noted that, "EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed opens in over 1,000 theaters nationwide this Friday, April 18th. It is interesting that these efforts are made less than ten days before the movie debuts and involve those who continually seek to thwart open debate. While bullying tactics may work against some individuals who are trying to explore the origins of life, it will not work against us. We certainly will not allow a small group of self-appointed gatekeepers to infringe our rights of free speech and our obligation to expose them for what they are — namely, intellectual thugs unwilling to accept any dissent from Darwinian orthodoxy."
Ben Stein, the star of the movie, also makes it clear that no one will shut him up. "I came to this project unsure what I would find. I am now amazed at the intolerance of many academic elites. I feel that it is my mission to speak out on behalf of targeted dissenters and fight for their freedom of speech and freedom of inquiry."
Tell me…do you see anyone trying to shut Ben Stein up? Their faux macho posturing is not persuasive.
It is good to see that the NCSE's counter-site has made them cry.
Comments
Expelled is the biggest pile of shit ever
Posted by: Mark P. | April 15, 2008 8:41 PM
Mere ethical quibbling in the face of Truth.
Posted by: notthedroids | April 15, 2008 8:41 PM
These Expelled guys just need to lay down before they hurt themselves.
Posted by: Zak Kroger | April 15, 2008 8:42 PM
In THREE days, the CRUSHING suppression of Big Science will begin to end - hope, learning, data, honesty, academic freedom, science and American values will return to this nation. THIS will be the end.
Ben Stein and Premise have done such an outstanding job of presenting the essence of the struggles of ID that no one could hope to express it more clearly or more adeptly: suppression, Communism, Marxism, the Discovery Institute, Creation, and Religion are all interwoven in this complex and deeply-moving attempt at film-making. Caroline Crocker and Ben Stein together express themselves in such a sticky, sweet melange of undeniable TRUTH that all viewers MUST realize the unity of their position. Such a match virtually shakes Evolution, Natural Selection and Darwinism to its very core.
In the end, there is no science unless it is God-born science, and there is no data unless it is God-born data. Anything falling short of this mark is not of the one True science, HIS Science.
Mathematically, the Du Gerdemain manifolds have unfortunately failed to provide the insight into reality that was needed to disprove evolution, but God will eventually guide me to the RIGHT theory and show to me how to find the CORRECT data. In no way will HE allow the HUMAN SLAG of the DECEIVER's blogs to influence my research.
Intelligent Design follows the truth back to the reality that God is the Designer of the Universe. Each intricate part of every living thing was crafted first in the Will of the Creator and is expressed in whole by His Omnipotence in the reality which is all around. The Designer's WILL is sufficient in itself and of itself.
Why do you Hell-seekers deny the Truth? Why do you HATE the LOVE of God? Has Satan promised you a corner office and a wonderful life? A Voluptuous Maiden? A Handsome Man? A Skeptical Woman? A Thinking Man? Money? Riches? Gold? Baubles? A Paltry Few Data Points? A Least Squares Fit? How cheaply have you sold you ETERNAL souls for such a meager sum? Your linear regression will take you STRAIGHT to HELL. Nudge the data here, get a professorship. Nudge the data there, become a fellow. Fudge the data a little more, gain a Chair. Expel a colleague, become a dean. It is time for the DATA-WHORES to repent their EVIL lies. Follow the TRUTH and REPENT. One should not doubt the seriousness of this situation. The WORD is that It will end badly for those who do.
REMEMBER the TRUTH in this FILM! It will be the only thing that SAVES you.
Mark Witt
Intelligent Design,
Institute of Theory
New Haven, CT
Posted by: Mark Witt | April 15, 2008 8:46 PM
And I've given up on paying much attention to them. I can't even get up the energy to get banned from Kevein 11's blog. This last week or so my blog has been mostly about Battlestar Galactica:
http://normdoering.blogspot.com/2008/04/six-of-one-dissapointing-part.html
Posted by: Norman Doering | April 15, 2008 8:49 PM
#4 Your linear regression will take you STRAIGHT to HELL.
This is like the "That's right...doggie style!" line in Edward Current's evolution video. Nice!
Posted by: James F | April 15, 2008 8:51 PM
Um, Mark, (#4) that's nice and all, but you seem to be missing the point of the posting; Expelled is made with plagiarized animation. That's both illegal and unethical. Check the Bible, under "Thou shalt not steal."
Also, if you actually look at the facts, it would appear that the Expelled film is made by a pack of liars.
Posted by: Sengkelat | April 15, 2008 8:56 PM
It really boggles the mind how "moral" people (religious nutcases) can so dramatically demonstrate their true colors. It almost seems like they really don't believe their god is watching them...? Maybe they think he doesn't care, as long as they're doing "his work?" If so, then why write the Commandments (Suggestionments?) in the first place? Sheesh!!
Posted by: BadMA | April 15, 2008 9:04 PM
Is "Mike Witt" another of that "Rev. Hipple" guy/gal's loki-monikers?
As is likely the case with very many people here, I can no longer tell, except by calculating the ratio of upper- to lower-case letters used (and that's become to much of a bother to more than eyeball estimate).
If a parody, it's a nice try, but I frankly couldn't finish it - there were no tricky hooks or in-jokes to hint at its being satiric.
If serious, it was too stupidly McCreationist to even be annoying.
Posted by: Sioux Laris | April 15, 2008 9:05 PM
This is about as bad as taking the first paragraph of a student paper and having it show up verbatim on google. It's not even skillful theft.
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | April 15, 2008 9:06 PM
#4
Well, there goes any pretense that Intellegent Design isn't religion...
Oh and Mark this line: "In the end, there is no science unless it is God-born science, and there is no data unless it is God-born data. Anything falling short of this mark is not of the one True science, HIS Science."
I couldn't find a better example of fascism even if I tried. You, my friend, are no different then the Islamic terrorists.
Anywho...
I've spent the last couple hours going around to different sites and blogs posting the link to Expelledexposed. I had to stop after what I was reading began to make me feel physically ill.
Posted by: Bill | April 15, 2008 9:07 PM
I wish I could say I am surprised, but I'm not...not anymore.
apparently, nothing related to this film company's underlying lack of ethical conduct surprises me now...
and please...someone tell me that #4 is a badly done parody? I'm too tired to muddle though deadpan nonsense. If it's not a parody, please don't destroy my illusions, or I'll have to join ERV in head-banging-on-desk activities.
(like being in Winnipeg for a month isn't going to drive me to that anyway!)
Posted by: CanadianChick | April 15, 2008 9:10 PM
#4 got me going. I assumed it was a satire until the deep crazy became apparent, ie, no sense of humour detected.
This movie is a bloody joke. Did they not think anyone would notice? Now that I think of it, since their intended audience doesn't exactly hang out in university libraries, maybe that's what they thought would go down.
I'll throw together a bunch of beedios from YouTube, grab some snazzy artwork here and there, interview some people without telling them the actual angle and call myself Cecil B. Fucking DeMille.
This has to be one of the most farcical, weak attempts at infotainment in cinematic history. Makes me wonder if that was actually the goal - to show these ID people up for the buffoons they really are.
Can't get enough bad news about this film and not only because I find Stein repulsive and boring.
Posted by: Caveat | April 15, 2008 9:12 PM
If evolution were the only theory that mattered then why worry so much about what other people think?
The expelled movie has taken up more articles on the blog than anything else. If what you know is true and can be proven is fact (as you make it out to be), then there should be no worry and no effort put forth to try to prove them wrong. The evidence itself is supposed to prove them wrong and thus you are adding more to make them seem legit.
It seems like someone is really scared of something if you put so much effort to combat them instead of just using the evidence that is backed by your logic to prove them wrong.
Personally their science isn't science at all but you offer nothing better. As I have stated before, the evidence that you try to provide might be real, but the world view behind it is what is flawed and thus your theory is flawed.
What if there wasn't an ice age billions of years ago, what if there was something else that happened. Because you try to look at the current data and fossil evidence that might suggest what you say is true, it might not be. You can't really observe what happened to the evidence and how it came to be, you can only make an educated guess.
In a lot of cases science isn't exact. Most yes can be proven without a doubt, but there are some grey areas and those grey areas always get defended on here like it is the gospel truth.
To say science is always right in itself is wrong. That is why the more information we learn, the more questions that we ask, but we are still learning and will continue to learn. So things we thought were right years ago, are old and outdated. I know I am stating the obvious here, but it is simply not said enough and hugely underscored.
Science should be about learning and going through the maturing process. It should not be based on arrogance.
That is why I simply can't stand PZ Myers because he doesn't just try to prove things, he just simply gives his opinion on why they are wrong. Opinions are not enough.
We don't need to hear what you think about religion, we need to see what a mature person thinks about biology. Biology has nothing to do with religion, it is a science.
Adding your political and opinions about religion just clutter up the work that could be done if you focused on improving our lives with science.
I really don't care what PZ myers thinks about religion or ID and he should not focus on things like this because it is pointless to focus on something that does not help your case.
This is why I really don't respect PZ Myers and honestly, I would never take his classes. I just do not find him honest enough and less biased enough to even trust him or his opinions on things. If a scientist cannot be objective, what is the point?
Posted by: Planet Killer | April 15, 2008 9:12 PM
Before anyone (else) gets caught by Poe's Law, check the sig:
Intelligent Design, Institute of Theory. I believe that's the giveaway. :^)
Posted by: Kevin Dorner | April 15, 2008 9:13 PM
Mark,
you said, "God will eventually guide me to the RIGHT theory" ...and he has...it's right here in this blog and the links from it. Evolution is how it happened, brother! No six days, no Adam and Eve, no talking snakes...none of that crap. And it was no miracle either, it was information garnered from and backed by OBSERVABLE evidence! Having blind-faith in a 2000 year old book of contradiction, hyperbole and myth about an invisible god is only going to get you confused. Help us all, look up "cognitive dissonance."
Posted by: Rick Schauer | April 15, 2008 9:13 PM
Hey, good news! Barack Obama comes foursquare down in favor of keeping religion out of science classrooms!
http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2008/04/14/obama-science-in-science-classrooms-please/
Posted by: Phoenix Woman | April 15, 2008 9:13 PM
Thanks, Kevin. As I said, I didn't get that far, but suspected as much.
Point of friendly criticism to Mike W., foreshadow the punchline early in your parody, just capitalization isn't quite enough. But practice makes prfect.
;)
Posted by: Sioux Laris | April 15, 2008 9:16 PM
And if Expelled really were an attempt to make IDists look bad, how would it differ from what these yahoos have done?
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: Glen Davidson | April 15, 2008 9:17 PM
A new posting at UncommonDescent reveals breaking news!!!!!
Premise Media sued XVIVO L.L.C. yesterday. See the lawsuit:
http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-txndce/case_no-3:2008cv00639/case_id-175993/
Amazing.
==========================================================
Posted by: Thinker | April 15, 2008 9:21 PM
Planet Killer:
Why believe PZ...read it yourself...
Intro to Evolution
It's written so even you can understand it.
Posted by: Rick Schauer | April 15, 2008 9:23 PM
#20 What the...? Why is Premise suing XVIVO? Because XVIVO had the idea first, before Premise ripped it off? Legal types, please sound off and enlighten us.
Posted by: James F | April 15, 2008 9:30 PM
Wake up, people.
Mark Witt gives his affiliation as
In case that's too obscure, let me rearrange it a bit.
I hope this helps.
Posted by: noncarborundum | April 15, 2008 9:32 PM
#13 Caveat - The problem is that it doesn't matter how poorly made the film is, or how much they lied or stole. It is still giving validity to the people who already believe. As I was saying before, I was trying to post links to expelledexposed into other blogs (ie Baptist blogs, yahoo movies, fandango, IMDB, ABC, and anywhere I found a positive review) and you wouldn't believe the crap I was seeing. These people have already been fooled into believing in "Big Science", they are already talking about "mobilizing" and "putting the smack down" on these "arrogant old fogies" who are denying our children and teachers the greatest of all American rights "Free Speech".
Regardless of how poorly made it is, regardless of the lies, regardless of any refutation, things are going to get ugly because of this film. They have already succeeded in starting a dangerous conspiracy theory even before the release of the film that will have significant ramifications for years to come. To the religious extreme which makes up a large percentage of our population (large enough to be really dangerous) "Big Science" is trying to oppress them and is ultimately conspiring to destroy all religion. These people will fight against that whether it really exists or not and education and the science community will be the victims. And don't be surprised when they decide to come at us with subjugation and violence.
Posted by: Bill | April 15, 2008 9:32 PM
Its like a street thug tries to steal your iPod. You punch him, and he sues you for his hospital bills.
Posted by: ERV | April 15, 2008 9:34 PM
Any word on if they stole from Blade Runner or The Matrix yet? If I were them, those would be prime models to steal from.
Posted by: Steve Ulven | April 15, 2008 9:34 PM
Planet Killer wrote:
Sorry, but statements like this really kill your argument. Do you even know why this is wrong? Science is a process, a way of learning. I'm sure you mean "scientists" or the "scientific consensus", but if that's the case, then say so.
No one claims the scientific consensus is always right, and those that do tend to be people who are already well indoctrinated into an infallible, strict, and hierarchical belief system.
What makes scientists confident in their theories are the volumes of data that support them. Evolution is so incredibly rich with evidence that it would take a massive amount of evidence to convince scientists that an alternative theory is correct. What the IDiots provide are lies, wishful thinking, and no data whatsoever.
Posted by: BadMA | April 15, 2008 9:36 PM
Note to self: always check to see what else has been posted since you started writing and compulsively reformatting and re-previewing your own post.
Posted by: noncarborundum | April 15, 2008 9:37 PM
They truly are the gift that keeps on giving, aren't they? Any chance that if they ever get to trial (for the suit or countersuit or any of the RIAA suits that are bound to happen with their use of non-bought music) that they'll get John Jones as a judge? Because that would be awesome.
Posted by: Carlie | April 15, 2008 9:37 PM
Anyone else having trouble opening www.expelledexposed.com ?
Is the server down or what? Dum dum duuummmmmm.
Posted by: Pauk | April 15, 2008 9:38 PM
In case that's too obscure, let me rearrange it a bit.
Intelligent
Design,
Institute
Of
Theory.
I hope this helps.
Posted by: noncarborundum | April 15, 2008 9:32 PM
I think that would be the first case of subliminal institutional honesty I've seen from the creationists/ ID advocates! Here's to hopping they keep it up. If anything, I just want to see if Witt rearranges his signature block...
Posted by: brokenSoldier | April 15, 2008 9:38 PM
Shorter version of the Premise media lawsuit:
LEEROOOOYYYY nnnJENNNNKINS!!!!!
Posted by: James F | April 15, 2008 9:40 PM
Well, I suppose it could boost their attendance as people go see this movie to find out if their work has been stolen by the good and godly folks at Premise Media.
Posted by: Dan | April 15, 2008 9:41 PM
Witt's a parodist. An astonishingly consistent one, who never breaks rabid character, and one who has fooled many of us (me, for one) in the past. Which makes me wonder...where's JanieBelle been lately?
That you,
Lou FCDMark?Posted by: Sven DiMilo | April 15, 2008 9:42 PM
So this is Intelligent Design in action: rampant plagiarism. Makes sense, really. If you truly believe goddidit, that's pretty well all you can really say: goddidit. There's no puzzle, no Aha! moment, no unique understanding of some facet of the universe that you can share with everyone else--every paper will be a plagiarised version of the one before. "Goddidit." That's all there really is. Hell, if you already know that goddidit, then why do research at all? We're done. We know it all. What's next, How did goddoit? Who fucking cares? The bible said hedidit, we know hedidit, there's nothing else. Science is brought to a screeching halt.
And so Expelled is the best possible advertisement for Intelligent Design: a cheap, hastily cribbed together cop-out that exquisitely broadcasts its creators' general incompetence and lack of imagination. On whom are they going to blame their desperate plagiarism? The Evilutionists? "Your Honour, I was expelled and discriminated against by the Darwinists, so I totally didn't have time to create my own animations based on my own understanding of biology, so I had to copy theirs...." They can claim we're censoring them all they want, but how can they blame us when everything in their own movie is a blatant work of evolutionists? They had their 15 minutes, and they blew it.
Expelled explains them and their motivations better than we ever could: "We want in, but we don't want to have to do any work. We'll crib your evidence to suit the story we were told at our mother's knee so we won't have to strain our brains at all. We'll even steal your animations! After all, you've got no higher reason to live: you sweat out the long hours examining petri dishes and pouring over data--we're too busy basking in our faith in God's Divine Certainty to dirty our hands. Can we have our tenure and our cheques now?"
I wonder if we should be promoting this movie.
Posted by: Brownian, OM | April 15, 2008 9:44 PM
I like Mark Witt, but, unless I'm missing something (which is entirely possible), today's comment wasn't the best.
Posted by: Dan | April 15, 2008 9:46 PM
Not seeing why the US court in Texas has jurisdiction. It is a federal case. But XVIVO is in Connecticut. You have to file these suits in courts where the company is doing business.
Looks like either they screwed up or they aren't really serious.
If I was XVIVO, I'd have it transferred to New England.
Posted by: raven | April 15, 2008 9:46 PM
From the Texas docket link: "Cause: 15:1 Antitrust Litigation"
Antitrust. That, right there, is comedy gold.
Posted by: Zombie | April 15, 2008 9:47 PM
Yeah, obviously a parody but I'm in a hurry today so I didn't really savour it. I'm glad someone pointed out the IDIOT joke; in my hurry, I missed it, though I thought the "Institute of Theory" alone was a giveaway.
Posted by: Russell Blackford | April 15, 2008 9:48 PM
And when they withdraw the suit, next week or next month, that will not be a loss for them, oh no. That will be just the next move in their cunning chess game which will inevitably end with The Evilutionist King toppled (that would be Richard Dawkins) and his Pawn (that would be PZ) served up with breaded calamari for Logan Craft's lunch.
This thing will beat out the Bible for Biggest Pile O' Bullshite Ever.
Posted by: weemaryanne | April 15, 2008 9:48 PM
I wonder if we should be promoting this movie.
Don't get all crazy now, Brownian. :)
So if someone made a video that showed Expelled, but with a newly dubbed voice-over telling how stupid and plagiarized every bit of it was, would they have any grounds to complain about infringing on their movie since most of it was never really theirs to begin with?
Posted by: Carlie | April 15, 2008 9:50 PM
I think it's weird that these people, who insist that for anything to exist it needs a creator, in this ONE INSTANCE refuse to acknowledge the ACTUAL creator of something. I guess god told them to steal. Or maybe it evolved in their computer spontaneously.
Posted by: cureholder | April 15, 2008 9:52 PM
And thee-erre goes my irony meter. Bye-bye, irony meter.
I was worried that the Expelled Exposed website wasn't catchy enough — not enough video, no cyclically changing factoids on the front page — but if it's got the creeping moral degenerates of Premise Media this upset, it can't be all bad. My guess is that they had such low hopes of defending themselves in court that they decided to go on the offense instead.
Posted by: Blake Stacey | April 15, 2008 9:53 PM
I tried to visit ExpelledExposed website and my browser said the site is not responding. Either the site is legitimately overloaded with hits or it's experiencing a denial of service attack.
Posted by: Keanus | April 15, 2008 9:54 PM
The only people that's going to win from this whole mess is the lawyers.
Oh yeah.
Expelled
Posted by: Geral | April 15, 2008 9:56 PM
Expelled Exposed has been overloaded. That thing has been linked to all over the internet -- It has quickly become a major phenomenon.
Tomorrow, Premise Media will use this to claim Expelled is the #1 most popular subject on the interwebs.
Posted by: PZ Myers | April 15, 2008 9:59 PM
How is it that we're both grassroots and elite?
Anyone?
Anyone?
Bueller?
Posted by: wazza | April 15, 2008 10:05 PM
Haha... damn. I was enjoying the new design.
Posted by: Pauk | April 15, 2008 10:06 PM
But they have the right to free speech--without having anybody criticize them (no freedom of speech for thee).
That's the only way to make sense of their "movie" as well, since they clearly can blither on about it as much as they like. The persecution of having facts used against them, however, is absolutely intolerable and unfair to those such as they who have no command of the facts.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: Glen Davidson | April 15, 2008 10:09 PM
#47
The same way we have an all-powerful global conspiracy suppressing absolutely all free thought, yet our stupid server gets overloaded.
Posted by: James F | April 15, 2008 10:09 PM
ummm.... injunction to delay the premier of Expelled anyone? I'd say their counter-suit is intended to (a) create publicity (is that one of Mathis's tools for PR?) and (b) delay a possible ruling until then.
Get Jeremy Irons on it stat!!
Posted by: Aaron | April 15, 2008 10:14 PM
Premise Media has also learned of grass root efforts that are underway to try to influence the ranking of internet searches regarding Expelled by those wanting to learn about the film. Their stated goal is an attempt to counter-site those searchers to other websites that criticize the themes in the movie.
We are not surprised that opponents of our film are attempting to interfere with its important message.
Therefore, we must ban free speech in order to suppress all criticism of ID! How dare people think they can question authority or bring information to the public!
Posted by: Bronze Dog | April 15, 2008 10:14 PM
Yes, the NCSE site is overloaded.
Posted by: raven | April 15, 2008 10:15 PM
Oops. Forgot I could use blockquote tags here. Correction:
Therefore, we must ban free speech in order to suppress all criticism of ID! How dare people think they can question authority or bring information to the public!
Posted by: Bronze Dog | April 15, 2008 10:16 PM
Premise Media has also learned of grass root efforts that are underway to try to influence the ranking of internet searches regarding Expelled by those wanting to learn about the film.
Be still my heart! Not a grassroots effort?! And to think that I thought this effort was organized and sanctioned by "Big Science". What a letdown...
Posted by: Jeff | April 15, 2008 10:17 PM
I haven't read many of the other comments, so if I'm repeating somebody's post inadvertently, kindly tell me to shut up.
Anyways, has anyone ever thought of the possibility that the reason behind Expelled's tightly-guarded private screenings and non-disclosure agreements was specifically because they were aware of their own blatantly-plagiarized material, and were unwilling to expose it to the general public? That seems like a typical underhanded strategy: bulldoze the film into theatres and generate some bucks from their foaming fanbase, before those pesky XVIVO folks can disrupt the movie from entering theatres in the first place by bringing to light their theft of intellectual property. They may have attempted to keep the movie locked down to their supporters, who are either too dumb to recognize the lifted segments, or too loyal to the message to do the right thing.
But seriously, this whole counter-suit thing is hilarious; they can't even respond to legal jargon without foaming at the mouth about the EVIL DARWINISTS and their Gestapo thugs. I especially like how they try to appear as if they're the downtrodden underdogs yearning to breathe free in a sea of oppression. Hmm, let's see, who has more funds at their disposal to burn in court, Premise (backed by the entire creationist movement), or XVIVO?
"I have the American right to teach your children that palm trees are actually insects, and you EVIL taxonomists will never stand in the way of my free speech!"
Posted by: Adam Nelson | April 15, 2008 10:17 PM
Y'know, reading this post one thing struck me: XVIVO has said they believe this is infringing on their copyright, but don't have the funds to pursue legal action at this time.
So what do the producers of the film do? They sue XVIVO knowing their target doesn't have the finances for a long, drawn-out suit.
I smell someone trying to win a settlement on the cheap, before another group funds XVIVO's copyright claim. Here's hoping a group like the EFF can step in and wallop the film producers.
Posted by: Bluegrass Geek | April 15, 2008 10:19 PM
While that is a very pleasant image to savor, I think you mean Peter Irons...
Posted by: thalarctos | April 15, 2008 10:19 PM
Sorry Mark (#4), but if there is a "great beyond" called Heaven and it's filled with liars, crooks, egotism, ignorance, and denial of facts like Expelled is, I want no part of it. There are too many conspiracy kooks already, claiming how they have evidunce (misspelling intentional) that all known facts are wrong and how the kooks are going to supposedly save us from those conspirators whose facts can't accurately be disputed nor countered. And like any other good joke, it's funny at first, but becomes more and more annoying each time you hear it.
In short, this revolution is unlikely to happen. At most, the science which treats you when you're ill, comforts you with modern devices like your computer, and ensures you the comforts you've grown accustomed to like more and better food, will find it harder to progress due to increased restrictions. More so than it is already.
Posted by: HidariMak | April 15, 2008 10:24 PM
they are chalking the sidewalks for expelled at the ohio state university. i saw it today when i was going to get dinner across campus. :*(
Posted by: Paul Johnson | April 15, 2008 10:24 PM
Holy shit people, I was just watching "The Universe" program on the Science channel and guess who had a commercial for their delightful propaganda movie? Yes thats right Expelled. It was only about 10 seconds long and the commercial didn't even say what it was about. I just saw a brief flash of Ben Stein and then "Expelled in theaters April 18th".
I'm actually appalled that a channel that promoted such great programs would allow these douchebags to advertise with them.
Perhaps since the commercial was kind of ambiguous it slipped through.
Posted by: Steve P | April 15, 2008 10:24 PM
Call me an 'elitist self-appointed gatekeeper,' but...
I really don't get the accusation that scientists are elitists for not letting any old crackpot theory equal time. I mean aren't there certain arenas in life where we expect quality control? I won't call my doctor an elitist for insisting on doing surgery herself rather than handing me the knife.
That's not elitism, it's occupational specialization.
bah
Posted by: dcwp | April 15, 2008 10:27 PM
OK, I give up. Was that a funny send up by Mark Witt or ... the other thing? I can't tell anymore. They're all so stupid, the spoofs have to work real hard to get by. I thought it was straight from the Onion, then I followed the link and all the links on that site seem pretty straight fundieloonytoons.
Posted by: AlanWCan | April 15, 2008 10:28 PM
How to shut Ben Stein up? Pay him more money that they did.
Posted by: jeh | April 15, 2008 10:29 PM
@57 I hope that is their idea. XVIVO does not have the funds to do this on their own. Harvard wont do anything until the movie comes out. And, considering their work is XVIVOs work, I doubt Harvard will leave them hanging.
And, if you read my blag link above, now EXPELLED has the Howard Hughes Medical Institute on their asses.
They are full fledged retards if they dont take the animation out and proclaim 'OMG TEH DARWINIZT SUPPRESSED MEH MOVAH!'
Posted by: ERV | April 15, 2008 10:32 PM
I want an Intelligent Design Institute of Theory t-shirt.
Posted by: craig | April 15, 2008 10:36 PM
"They are full fledged retards if they dont take the animation out and proclaim 'OMG TEH DARWINIZT SUPPRESSED MEH MOVAH!'"
This is clearly part of their plan.
Posted by: Pauk | April 15, 2008 10:36 PM
Yeah, we have to let them through, otherwise we're doing it "again"...
Posted by: wazza | April 15, 2008 10:41 PM
To PZ:
People would love to shut Ben Stein up by closing down this movie. They are trying to figure out a way to do so if they can, whether by bogus threats of lawsuits or anything else.
Posted by: Hugh Slaman | April 15, 2008 10:46 PM
The Establishment, thought police, Darwinian, and academic elites.
That's probably all that the IDiots who come over here are ever going to read. Too bad that they didn't include liberal, the media, ACLU, and "the left". The mantra feels so empty without those words.
Posted by: Mena | April 15, 2008 10:49 PM
RE: #14
"As I have stated before, the evidence that you try to provide might be real, but the world view behind it is what is flawed and thus your theory is flawed."
Let me see if I understand this. The facts are real but because you don't agree with the people presenting them, the facts are no longer real?
Is that right?
Posted by: Amy | April 15, 2008 10:53 PM
I'm sure XVIVO will be represented pro bono.
The lawyer will be rewarded when Premise Media loses.
Posted by: Steve_C | April 15, 2008 10:58 PM
Wazza (#47), see Sven (#34). And if I.D.I.O.T. wasn't enough, can I really be the first to pick up on "Auguste du (= French de le) Gerdemain"?
Posted by: the amoeba | April 15, 2008 11:02 PM
The IDiots probably took your "CENTRAL COMMITTEE OF THE EVOLUTIONARY APPARATUS DIRECTIVE" made-up organization title seriously, too. Pathetic.
And if someone does indeed want to "learn about the film," then I can't think of a better site than Expelled Exposed
Posted by: Etha Williams | April 15, 2008 11:02 PM
People would love to shut Ben Stein up by closing down this movie. They are trying to figure out a way to do so if they can, whether by bogus threats of lawsuits or anything else.
I must admit that I've wanted to shut Ben Stein up for years, especially back when he was doing those advertisements for Visine. Man, those were annoying.
However, in this case, the group that is running to launch a lawsuit is Premise Media. Harvard was obviously waiting on the release.
Posted by: Nullifidian | April 15, 2008 11:06 PM
How does Sven's point (which I already knew about, having encountered the Intelligent Design Institute Of Theory before) impact on mine?
I was asking about the Expelled Crew's statement, in which they claim that there's a grassroots campaign, then call their opponents elitist
Posted by: wazza | April 15, 2008 11:09 PM
RE: #14
I don't think you understand ToE, or science in general. Not only are there MANY fields of study that highly indicate ToE (including things that Darwin never foresaw, such as genetics, the understanding of which relies almost entirely on evolution as a process), but most of modern biology is built on the foundation of processes such as natural selection and mutation. Hell, we watch these things happen every day! Ever heard of antibiotic resistance?
Anybody who denies that evolution exists either knows absolutely nothing about modern biology, absolutely refuses to believe in hard evidence because it conflicts with their worldview, or both.
Posted by: Adam Nelson | April 15, 2008 11:10 PM
#69, they're ridiculing the movie, not trying to shut it down. I'd imagine some would prefer if the propaga- I mean objective documentary was never made, but now that it has been I would think few people want to actually shut it down. Unlike fundamentalists, most normal people prefer not to be complete hypocrites.
Posted by: Alex | April 15, 2008 11:10 PM
I can't believe it. You linked to [url=http://expelledexposed.com/]Expelled[/url] yet again! How dare you try to repress the fine folks who produced [url=http://expelledexposed.com/]Expelled.[/url] Their pseudoscience must be [url=http://expelledexposed.com/]Expelled.[/url]
Posted by: Eric | April 15, 2008 11:13 PM
This is great news.
If the filmmakers are really serious about their accusations (hard to tell at times), then they're no doubt thinking they're just turning the tables or some such righteous horse-pucky.
But I seriously doubt that any court in America would uphold such a baseless suit, and would open their lawyers up to harassment charges.
These goofballs keep punching themselves and think that the spectators are cheering for them.
Posted by: Ryan F Stello | April 15, 2008 11:13 PM
Re: #69
Following up on #78's point...
You seem to be mistaking "shutting Ben Stein up" or "closing down this movie" with "countering its claims with well-researched, established facts." Yes, I realize it's easy to make this mistake when you so fervently buy into an idea that you willingly gouge out your eyes in the face of contrary evidence.
Posted by: Adam Nelson | April 15, 2008 11:13 PM
They can't help but lie.
They are disgusting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbxaT_m8daw&feature=related
Posted by: Steve_C | April 15, 2008 11:13 PM
So...under what legal theory does Premise Media sue XVIVO? One guess is a declaratory judgment. Premise alleges that they do not infringe XVIVO's copyright, and that XVIVO is wrongly saying that they are, so let's settle this right now. The other guess is tortious interference with a business interest. Premise might claim that XVIVO has no standing to sue on the copyright, possibly because they no longer own it. XVIVO's actions would then wrongly damage Premise's reputation (smirk).
The ownership question is, AFAICS, the biggest outstanding legal issue. But, even if Harvard owns the copyright, the XVIVO authors retain some personal rights under the Visual Artists' Rights Act of 1990 (VARA); see 17 USC 106A. I've never had occasion to get involved with that question personally.
Posted by: Olorin | April 15, 2008 11:14 PM
PK at number 14 is making the same statement he's been making for weeks, that we don't engage with their ideas.
The reason for that, of course, is that it's impossible to wrestle smoke.
Posted by: wazza | April 15, 2008 11:15 PM
I always find it funny when people complain that a blogger shouldn't be blogging about what they're blogging about.
Disagree with their positions vociferously, fine... but "I don't like you and I don't respect you because you always blog about X when I think you should be blogging about Y?" That just strikes me as stupi