…and this is a 
God must really hate black people
Category: Religion
Posted on: April 16, 2008 5:49 PM, by PZ Myers
A family of Minnesotans were involved in a horrific plane crash in the Congo.
Barry and Marybeth Mosier were on their way to visit their son Keith, 24, in Kinsangani, Congo, with two younger children when their plane crashed on takeoff Tuesday in Goma. At least 36 people died as the plane plowed through a market and burned. Most of the people who died were on the ground, according to the U.N. mission in DR Congo.
…Mosier said, he and his wife were carrying their son Andrew, 3, in the shoving "mass of humanity" trying to escape the burning plane. They got out through the opening in the fuselage.
…"Outside the plane, she was wandering around. ... It was total chaos," he said. "People were screaming and yelling because the plane had landed on this market. All of a sudden, out of the blue, all of these people who were just standing there are now dead.
"So there's parts of bodies and people burning and people screaming and yelling, and she was out there by herself."
It sounds like a nightmarish event, and I'm glad they survived. I wish a few more people hadn't died horrible, painful deaths in such a catastrophe, but this was a family of despicable missionaries, so you know what's coming next.
"We couldn't believe that our family of four could all escape a plane that was crashed and on fire, but by God's mercy, we did," he said.
Mosier said he believes the family made it for a reason.
"I think the Lord has a plan for us, otherwise we wouldn't have survived," he said. "He still has work for us to do."
Their god has no mercy to spare for the innocent people in the market, of course, and their lives must have been totally useless for their god to be able to dispense with them in such a brutal fashion. Or perhaps they were wicked and deserved a flaming extinction with lots of fear and screaming?
In a just theistic world, I think their god would despise such smug, self-satisfied Christians.
Comments
God was obviously their co-pilot.
Posted by: MikeM | April 16, 2008 5:55 PM
The level of self-deluded conceit is staggering.
Posted by: Alex | April 16, 2008 5:56 PM
I have to say, as a 'Recovering Fundie', that this is not an odd reaction at all. When you think that you're so important that the creator of the entire universe died to save you from the torture pit he designed for you after you broke the rules he made that you couldn't keep...well you don't think any thing is beyond his grasp. Besides, all those dead people had to have already had their chance to hear the 'good news' or they wouldn't have died. Because...uh...god is just?
Just a mass-murdering f**khead.
Posted by: flonkbob | April 16, 2008 6:02 PM
And then CNN puts that quote right up on the damn headline.
Tell me again how badly Christianity is persecuted in the media?
Posted by: Rey Fox | April 16, 2008 6:03 PM
MikeM for the win! :-)
Posted by: Blake Stacey | April 16, 2008 6:04 PM
so, if God wants you to keep up the good work, he doesn't kill you in a plane crash. guess i'm doing fine so far.
Posted by: alex | April 16, 2008 6:06 PM
All too often, religion seems to encourage this sort of narcissism. When people give credit to God, they assume that they're somehow out of the picture now. They are just so humbled by God's personal attention, is all.
This is usually the same group which takes a story that has the vast majority of the world's population suffering eternal torture in Hell, and then labels it "The Good News" because it's not going to happen to them. Blessed are the meek.
Posted by: Sastra | April 16, 2008 6:06 PM
"God doesn't care about black people!" - W.E.B. Dubois
Posted by: Amplexus | April 16, 2008 6:06 PM
Atheist, gay person, liberal has something bad happen to them = warning to change their ways.
Christian, missionary, conservative has something bad happen to them = validation to keep right on doing what they're doing.
Funny how that works, innit it?
Posted by: H.H. | April 16, 2008 6:08 PM
"We know that the safest place in the world to work is where the Lord wants you to work."
Yeah. I'll bet.
Posted by: Coragyps | April 16, 2008 6:10 PM
"George W. Bush doesn't care about black people!" - Kanye West
Posted by: Adrienne | April 16, 2008 6:10 PM
As far as I am concerned, that work god supposedly has left for them must better involve saving the (actual, not eternal soul type) lives of countless* people to make up for this.
*Even callously assuming lives could be so easily counted and equated.
Posted by: MLE | April 16, 2008 6:11 PM
Give 'em a break; I'm sure they lament having been too late to save their poor pagan souls before they died.
Ugh. I detest missionaries.
Posted by: kcanadensis | April 16, 2008 6:13 PM
Lots of comments by these folks thanking God for saving them. Not one comment in the article where they thank the man who worked to tear open the hole in the fuselage so they could all get out of it.
Posted by: Divalent | April 16, 2008 6:14 PM
Too much can be made of such statements.
I mean, I realize it's not in the best taste or whatever. But when one has been through an ordeal like that, one has a strong tendency to express relief, to thank fate, your lucky stars, God, or Loki. I could say "thank God," meaning absolutely nothing by it, except that I'm sure glad to be alive (as much as I may lament the fate of the others, come on, I'm glad I made it).
Of course these people really are going beyond "thank God", and trying to make themselves out to be chosen of God to live. So they do deserve criticism.
But I'd worry about criticizing more spontaneous expressions of joy to be alive after a close shave with death, which do not seem to be exempted from these criticisms. I would certainly grant the dazed survivor of an earthquake or tornado the right to "thank God" or any other fantasy for their escape, though I wouldn't believe it for one second (without seeing an actual miracle, that is).
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: Glen Davidson | April 16, 2008 6:14 PM
Christian, missionary, conservative has something bad happen to them = validation to keep right on doing what they're doing.
Sorry, H.H., but I'm going to have to correct that sentence of yours.
It should actually be "Christian, missionary, conservative has something bad happen to other people = validation to keep right on doing what they're doing."
Shouldn't it? ;-)
Posted by: Andrew | April 16, 2008 6:17 PM
Chance does not care about thank-yous or emotional pleas, it only favors those who have prepared for its visitation.
Posted by: Alex | April 16, 2008 6:20 PM
I hate it when people give credit to god for saving them, but this has to be the most annoying blood boiling case of it I've ever seen in my entire life. To be honest I even have to give credit to other Christians, in that I don't think all of them would agree with this.
Posted by: Scott | April 16, 2008 6:20 PM
This reminds me of an anecdote my mom told me many years ago. She'd been having regular conversations with a Jehovah's Witness and at one point asked her, "if God really loves us so much, why are there so many children starving?", to which the Jehovah's Witness replied, "there aren't any Christian children starving!"
Posted by: karen | April 16, 2008 6:21 PM
Randomness is a very difficult idea for people to get their heads around, which is why gambling is such a lucrative business and why people see god in natural disasters or accidents.
People tend to confuse randomness with even distribution. Things that are evenly distributed will fail statistical tests of randomness. Things that are actually random tend to have enough repetition that people will see patterns.
Posted by: Sonja | April 16, 2008 6:24 PM
Since when did CNN stand for Christian News Network?
An entire article about how a family of white missionaries survived but the dozens dead in the market are only mentioned in passing? What about the cause of the crash? What about the families of the dead and injured?
What about the man who was tearing open a whole in the side of the plane with his bare hands? Did he make it out after the girl pushed him aside to dive through the hole? What was his name? Seems to me that they survived because of him and God had nothing to do with it.
"I think the Lord has a plan for us, otherwise we wouldn't have survived," he said. "He still has work for us to do."
Gee, I'm glad He had to kill so many innocent people to tell you that.
"But flying here is not a popular thing to talk about just now," he said wryly.
Oh! Ha ha ha! Lots of people died but we are safe! Ha ha ha!
Jackass.
Posted by: Bill | April 16, 2008 6:24 PM
Once again we have the insane reaction of religionists who have survived a horrible ordeal that left them alive and the other side dead and wounded and all attributable to their god in saving them for a higher purpose. There is no sense in reiterating my reaction to this insane crap as I have done so many times before on this site Again, it just strains credulity. In a related way this reminds me of a sign outside a school for the severely retarded and handicapped in southern New Hampshire: "god is not finished with us yet". This was many years ago when I was still not quite an absolute atheist and the sign did not have that much of a mental and emotional impact as it does today. The analogy is similiar in that an imaginary god is directing life and death and "in-between" to those so inclined toward insanity. Every time there is an incident as described in PZ's comment I think of that incredibly deranged sign in New Hampshire and it's appalling message. It is only as a committed atheist am I able to grasp this horrendous and deranged reaction proffered by religion. Yet these same persons when confronted with their insane reactions to ordained death and escape will never fathom the enormity of their incredible insane beliefs and just go on living a life of dilusion and madness. Incredible.
Posted by: Holbach | April 16, 2008 6:25 PM
Nice rant Holbach. Well said.
Posted by: Alex | April 16, 2008 6:29 PM
What I find totally insane is that in their minds, you can rest assured that this is proof-positive that their deity is the one true deity.
Posted by: Alex | April 16, 2008 6:33 PM
Here's the real news article of the event: http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/africa/04/16/congo.crashCNN3/index.html
Posted by: Bill | April 16, 2008 6:36 PM
You have to wonder why God is such a dramatic fellow. I mean, if he wanted to save that family, why not just skip the plane crash? I suppose he just likes all that praise he gets when he uses dramatics. Kind of an insecure god I guess.
Posted by: Norm | April 16, 2008 6:36 PM
flonkbob: thank you for identifying yourself as a 'Recovering Fundie'. It restores my faith in human nature that such a drastic turnaround is after all possible. Hold your head high.
As for these missionaries, they are right at the opposite end of the spectrum of human morality. I just hope that they one day come to realise how deluded and opinionated - and wrong - they are. I won't hold my breath though.
Posted by: Elwood Herring | April 16, 2008 6:39 PM
Yikes, dude. They just survived a plane crash. If I just survived a plane crash, I'd be just emotionally jarred and physically shaken to start saying relatively insensitive things too.
That CNN has time to cover plane crash survivors without giving two farts about the dozens killed doesn't speak too highly for the Blitzers of the world, but what else is new? We could have talked about aircraft safety (especially after the American Airlines shutdown last week) or the perils of travel in third world countries or even the trivial "how to survive a plane crash" junk advice. Instead, we've got to talk about how Jay-sus saves and the Moisers take half damage. But that's hardly the Moisers' fault.
Blaming the media for - once again - plumbing the depths of trivial nonsense is one thing. Blaming a religious family for expressing their religiousity, especially after they've just been confronted with their own mortality and then confronting a host of news cameras, is just silly. I mean, seriously, what would you have expected them to say? "Gee, its amazing that we lived while so many others died, but I'm going to rack this one up to fuselage integrity and excellent emergency piloting skills."
I mean, come on guys. There are far dumber things to be offended by. Especially in this day and age.
Posted by: Zifnab | April 16, 2008 6:45 PM
kcanadensis: I detest missionaries
Give em a chance - you're jut not cooking them right. Probably too much salt.
http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/nbe0225l.jpg
Posted by: AlanWCan | April 16, 2008 6:45 PM
karen said
No true Scotsman
So a guy is in his house, and hears the news report that a hurricane is coming and his community is being evacuated. He stays put, saying "God will provide."
A police car comes down the street with a loudspeaker blaring about the mandatory evacuation. He still says "God will provide."
The water rises, and a boat comes up the street. He stays in the attic, saying "God will provide."
As he sits on the roof of his flooded house, a helicopter comes to pick him up. He refuses, saying "God will provide."
At the Pearly Gates, he says to Saint Peter, "I was always taught God will provide. What happened? Why did he let me die?"
"Well he sent a weather report, a police car, a boat, and a helicopter, what else did you need?"
Posted by: BaldApe | April 16, 2008 6:47 PM
This is an example of the thinking that leads winning teams & armies to declare that God was on their side, assuring victory. You rarely hear the losers complain that God was simply against them.
For every award winner who thanks God in a speech, one would expect to hear the losers blaming Him: "Well, I did my best, but God just wanted the other guy to get it."
Posted by: Pan Demonium | April 16, 2008 6:47 PM
This reinforces my opinion that even if I did believe in a god, there's no way in hell (haha) that I'd worship it. I'd be trying to find out if there was some way to kill it, since it seems to be the cause of all human suffering.
To paraphrase: if god did exist, it would be necessary to kill him.
Posted by: Ted D | April 16, 2008 6:51 PM
What's offensive is their (false) sense of entitlement and conceit amongst the tragic and brutal deaths of so many others.
Posted by: Alex | April 16, 2008 6:54 PM
I had my early morning soured by the phone interview with Herr God Mit Uns prattling on about the Lord's mercy while scenes of screaming people and flaming wreckage and rescuers trying to extinguish a burning jet liner WITH PANS OF WATER played across my monitor.
If I hadn't known better, I'd have thought it a brilliant if somewhat cruel satire upon the insanity of the religious mind. But it was very real and sincere.
The road to heaven has more bodies in the foundation than NJ Rt.3.
---------------------
Chance does not care about thank-yous or emotional pleas
I like to watch.
-----------------------------
cory
Posted by: cory | April 16, 2008 6:57 PM
Glen, "I think the Lord has a plan for us, otherwise we wouldn't have survived... He still has work for us to do." does not qualify as "spontaneous expressions of joy to be alive." It's pretty clear, as noted by other posters, God saved their family and justly, apparently, killed the heathens and less qualified to live christians.
The spontaneous expression excuse is more appropriate for, say, HOLY SHIT that was close, or JESUS FUCKING CHRIST am I glad to be alive!
Or, not on a life or death note, something like, "Thank GOD Expelled is already out of theaters!" Oh, it's not? MY FUCKING GOD, I can't believe they're still showing that shit!
An excuse for recovering catholics whose parents taught us to swear young and never broke the habit...
Posted by: MB | April 16, 2008 6:58 PM
#32 Ted
"if god did exist, it would be necessary to kill him."
I think this is better:
if god did exist, it would be necessary to kill it.
Posted by: Alex | April 16, 2008 6:58 PM
I have never understood that mentality. Some years ago a guy ran down a hotel corridor and through a plate glass window. Fell three stories and nearly died with multiple injuries.
Someone was quoted in the paper as saying, "God was looking out for him," noting that he survived the fall, albeit barely.
Yeah? Well, why didn't God make him trip on the rug and knock himself out? Or prevent him from drinking so much? Or make the glass window better?
Makes. No. Sense.
Posted by: Doc Bill | April 16, 2008 6:58 PM
Pan Demonium: that's because usually the losers are dead.
I remember watching survivors of the 2004 tsunami praising Allah for having been "miraculously" saved, and claiming that Allah had saved them because they prayed so hard and believed in him blah blah blah. And I couldn't help thinking, "What about all the people that died? Surely they were just as fervent in their prayers, and just as religious, and just as worthy?"
We don't hear the other side of the argument because the dead can't talk, and can't complain that "Well god didn't save me!"
Posted by: Elwood Herring | April 16, 2008 6:59 PM
Maybe the reason God kept them alive was so they could come to the realization that there are no gods.
Posted by: Donnie B. | April 16, 2008 7:01 PM
Cannibal 1: I don't like this new batch of missionaries - tough and tasteless!
Cannibal 2: Well, how are you cooking them?
Cannibal 1: Just the usual way - boiling them whole in a large pot.
Cannibal 2: Ah, there's your problem! This batch are friars!
Posted by: Nick Gotts | April 16, 2008 7:05 PM
No, No, the missionaries have it all wrong. God loves the ones who DIED. He took 'em back.
It's the ones he had no use for that he left here!
Had god loved them, he'd have killed them. THEN they'd be able to say he cares.
Posted by: Nic Nicholson | April 16, 2008 7:06 PM
Our (humans) need to assign agency where none exists helped us cope with our surroundings and interactions. That much I understand. But we know better now. It's such a pity that so many need to make their way through reality clinging to comfortable myths.
What's terrifying is that they will die for and kill for their comfortable myths.
Posted by: Alex | April 16, 2008 7:06 PM
"...religion seems to encourage this sort of narcissism..."
Religion doesn't encourage narcissism... religion IS narcissism.
Religion is nothing more than that. "I couldn't possibly be mortal. I couldn't possibly be an unimportant assemblage of molecules from the universe's perspective. There must be some outside reason or meaning for ME."
Religion is simply infantile narcissism - the need to be the center of the universe. Creating a god to make yourself more god-like.
Posted by: craig | April 16, 2008 7:09 PM
So we have yet another unneeded example that the "secret ingredient" of Xianity is to develop a gigantic bloated sense of vanity which, however obviously unfounded or false, excuses the X-plague carrier from reflecting on his/her life, unless said reflection is flattering.
I'm tired of being disgusted by these sad, sick, determined-to-be-boring-and-stupid people. Sometimes I wish I hadn't made my own vows.
Posted by: Sioux Laris | April 16, 2008 7:10 PM
Pan Demonium hits a really good pop-culture reference, especially regarding sports. The observation mixes quite well with the old adage that success has a thousand mothers (or was it fathers?), but failure is an orphan. I think the success angle says something about what the god complex is really all abbout. People want superstitious forces at their back at all times. They think they can draw some sort of power from believing in something they can't see or prove exists. They even betray their own skill in attributing success to a god. But then, as has been pointed out, the god in question apparently plays favorites on quite the regular basis. If the Yankees win all the time, they're God's team. But if the underdog wins against the odds, well, God was "watching over them".
It's really quite laughable. But this plane crash obviously is not. That never stopped someone from feeling themselves chosen above others simply because they barely cheated death. God has a plan indeed. Apparently the poor people down below do not factor into that plan at all.
Posted by: BlueIndependent | April 16, 2008 7:10 PM
#32 and #36:
Me likey.
Posted by: mike | April 16, 2008 7:15 PM
I'm partial to "Thank fucking God".
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: Glen Davidson | April 16, 2008 7:17 PM
Nice god they've got. He saved the Mosiers but let others be torn apart or burn to death. The Mosiers might well stop and think a second or two about their disgusting comments.
I'm going to look around for sites where I can say the above. If enough of us do that, maybe the Mosiers and others might get the message.
Posted by: MelM | April 16, 2008 7:19 PM
If god exists, he is a big, yellow coward. It would be necessary to put a little ballerina dress on him and beat him into oblivion, to paraphrase the Jerky Boys.
Posted by: mike | April 16, 2008 7:19 PM
I'm in a horrific 40 mph + 40 mph head-on collision, my mini-van against another mini-van, my four boys in the car with me. We all go to the hospital but suffer only minor injuries. The other family is okay too.
My wife says, "God was with them."
"Bastard," I think. (I also thought, "The divorce papers are in the mail, bitch." It was post-traumatic stress. cut me some slack.)
Posted by: Adam | April 16, 2008 7:19 PM
The more I see of religion, the more I explore ideas that surround it, and the more I know of reality, the more I find the idea of a personal "god" repugnant.
Posted by: Alex | April 16, 2008 7:20 PM
Well you know, it might be that they were HEATHEN.
I heard that excuse for God finishing off (or at least not "protecting") the poor 3rd-world blighters plenty while growing up.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: Glen Davidson | April 16, 2008 7:20 PM
The really sickening part is that the CNN article isn't the end of the story, it's just the beginning. Their testimonies just got ten times more exciting than they ever were before, and they're probably already putting together the slide shows that they'll be showing. These idiots are going to be telling the story of how god saved them to do more of his work for years to come, every time they're begging for money from a church to enable them to return and save more souls for another year.
Posted by: Neslock | April 16, 2008 7:24 PM
@32, 36. Two of my favorite stories along these lines.
Evensong- Lester Del Ray
Shall the dust praise thee?- Damon Knight
Posted by: mothra | April 16, 2008 7:28 PM
Two other greats that have bearing on the subject, by Dan Simmons
Vanni Fucci is alive and well and living in hell.
Vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle.
Posted by: mothra | April 16, 2008 7:32 PM
Elwood...thanks. It was quite a journey, and I'm just glad I made it out with my mind. Well, actually guided by my mind and reason. I say 'Recovering Fundie' because I'll never be completely over the damage it did to me.
Posted by: flonkbob | April 16, 2008 7:34 PM
Wait, these guys were Seventh Day Adventists? So God spared them to carry on their work? But aren't they all going to hell? Man, religion is so confusing.
"I think the Lord has a plan for us, otherwise we wouldn't have survived," he said. "He still has work for us to do." I had to click on the video link to learn that 66 passengers altogether survived.
Posted by: RamblinDude | April 16, 2008 7:49 PM
When it's your time to go, it's your time. Maybe other people have done that they needed to get done on this planet and it was their time to go. Maybe the Christians have something important in their lives to finish.
Missionaries have died before when their time was up.
It is my opinion that we have goals or missions in this life and when those have been completed it is our time to go.
The people who have died are probably in a better place anyway. Why do you think almost all people are angry when they have to come back to this world when they die and come back.
Anyway, what does all this have to do with Biology and evolution? That's right it doesn't have anything to do with it. It is just pure hatred of people that believe in God.
The people that died their lives mean something. The Christians were not claming they were better, they were saying that they had something left to finish and that God spared them.
Posted by: Planet Killer | April 16, 2008 7:52 PM
If anyone ever thanks any religious figure, and I'm in his or her presence, I will give credit to the appropriate forces.
For example: someone says "Thank god you got here.", I'll say "Don't thank god, thank me."
I don't mean to come across as an asshole. The purpose is to make sure peoples' efforts are recognized. The person will think again next time he tries to thank big daddy for his tax return, or a good grade on a test, or someone else's presence when needed.
Posted by: Tolga K. | April 16, 2008 7:58 PM
Posted by: Planet Killer | April 16, 2008 7:52 PM
not convincing, and no less vile.
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | April 16, 2008 8:01 PM
To me, the only situation in which you should be allowed to praise God's benevolence is when no one - read that, zero - dies in that situation. Otherwise, survivors conceivably should feel some form of survivor's guilt - an emotion very familiar to those who have come home alive from overseas combat tours. Personally, I would - and often do, when I'm "on the couch" - search for any other possible entity to attribute my safety to than God, specifically because of the implications. If God saved me and took my friend, then the only inference I can draw is that I was somehow meant to live and he wasn't. In my specific case, my moral character - and faith in God, ironically - paled in comparison to that of the friend I am talking about.
If I agree with this implication and attribute my safe return to God, then somewhere down deep, I believe that I am somehow ultimately better or more deserving to live (in God's eyes) than the soldiers that were taken from us. If I disagree with that implication, my faith would crumble. (I'll let you guess which one I chose...)
My point is that any form of evangelical religion instills - through mechanisms exactly like we see in this plane crash survivor - a kind of arrogance that runs contrary to the benevolent, humanistic notions that are so necessary for the cross-cultural cooperation that our current world depends on in both an economic and social sense.
I qualified that statement with the word 'evangelical' because I couldn't care less what people believe in the privacy of their own minds and homes, but the minute they begin projecting their beliefs into public policy (government, education, etc...), then I have a very big problem, and will object as loudly as I possibly can.
Posted by: brokenSoldier | April 16, 2008 8:04 PM
Anyway, what does all this have to do with
Biology and evolution?illogic and superstition continuing to undermine science?Posted by: RamblinDude | April 16, 2008 8:12 PM
Planet killer @ 57 Good grief, you are still alive! I thought you had surreptitiously removed yourself from this earth bound existence to meet your imaginary god and have it smite us here at this blog. Would it be possible for you to prove there is something out there by checking it for yourself and then returning to let us know that it is as you say? Come on, prove it to us all and then get back to us here at Pharyngula, Okay? But first you have to trust in your god to let you come back in miraculous form and prove it to us once and for all. Come on, just for us!
Posted by: Holbach | April 16, 2008 8:14 PM
--and because this subject brings my blood to a nice, rolling boil, I'll continue the thought about soldiers in combat. (but only for a few lines, I promise. You'll find only small soap boxes here...)
I could not even begin to count the number of times I have related my story of being wounded to people and heard them reply that they were happy God brought me home safe, even if I was hurt. These same people parrot the same sort of sentiment to those who come home unscathed, saying that they're happy God brought them back home in one piece.
**Let me say right off the bat, I am by no means ungrateful for this sentiment. I truly appreciate anyone who genuinely cares for my - and my brothers' and sisters' in arms predicaments. It is merely the divine attribution that bothers me.**
This gives me the image of God somehow sorting through soldiers. deciding who will die, who will be simply maimed, and who will return home unhurt. If there is some sort of divine plan, then God - or someone he designates - must do this sort of thing to ensure his plan goes as scheduled. I wonder if this department of heaven is called Quality Control? Or maybe it's the Compliance department?
If you're offended by my flippancy, then good. It offends me that you'd insinuate that my friend was somehow less worthy of a safe return than I was. And I'm sure his wife and child would feel the same. (I, on the other hand, would have been missed only by elders, as I have no family. If you were a compassionate God, who would you throw in the way of that IED first? My choice would be made without hesitation, regardless of the fact that it would be me. How's THAT for godless morality?)
Again, sorry for the rant. This kind of stuff gets me going.
Posted by: brokenSoldier | April 16, 2008 8:15 PM
>Atheist, gay person, liberal has something bad happen to
>them = warning to change their ways.
Bad things happen to everyone, but the difference is that Christians believe in something that is higher and have more support for when bad things happen. We are human and thus we are all sinners (oh yeah, I know a bad word here) and that is why we need God.
>Christian, missionary, conservative has something bad
>happen to them = validation to keep right on doing what
>they're doing.
Well, they were supposed to be dead and they are in perfect condition. That is a little bit more than something bad happening to them. Therefore their time is not up yet and they are ment to do something and finish their work here on earth. They still will die eventually.
But dead depending on your situation is not really a bad thing. People can sometimes survive really crazy things and they don't have to be Christians but they still have something that needs to be finished in life.
We all have a purpose and a mission to complete here on Earth and when that is done then it is time for us to go. This may mean that some people will die now or die latter but we all die. That is why it is pointless to be an Atheist because we cannot take anything we do here in this life to the next one. All of that physical evidence for science isn't going to do us any good in the next life.
If you think bad things are happening now. You just wait. The world is going to get a lot worse. Most of it will have nothing to do with religion. We only see the begining of it with Global warming.
Posted by: Planet Killer | April 16, 2008 8:17 PM
Posted by: Epistaxis | April 16, 2008 8:20 PM
Perhaps their surviving loved ones are better judges than you of whether their lives still had value on this planet.
(gaaaah, now I need a long hot shower.....)
Posted by: thalarctos | April 16, 2008 8:20 PM
Posted by: Planet Killer | April 16, 2008 8:17 PM
"Well, they were supposed to be dead and they are in perfect condition."
You - and others eager to attribute worldly occurrences to divine providence - conveniently avoid the common, natural fact that if things would have transpired that necessitated their death, they would be dead. Just as in the case with the old man who wiped out a couple of Porches, he attributed his luck to God when it was painfully obvious that a more natural, manmade object ensured his safety - his seatbelt.
"That is why it is pointless to be an Atheist because we cannot take anything we do here in this life to the next one."
I'll stay away from the obvious logical fallacies in your reasoning and address what you said at face value. If you are so sure that there IS a next life, and that atheists (you should learn what to capitalize and when...) will not be there, then let them live their pointless lives in peace. I'm sure it would make everyone a whole lot happier.
Posted by: brokenSoldier | April 16, 2008 8:26 PM
I was charged by an angry cow moose (she was protecting her calf) last summer, but she changed directions at the last minute. God must have a plan for me. It's the only possible explaination.
Posted by: Zach Miller | April 16, 2008 8:27 PM
Planet Killer, #64:
Denial is not a healthy form of support. No, when they got on the plane they expected to survive the trip and they did. Others were also planning to continue being alive, but now they're not; there's your miracle.Posted by: Epistaxis | April 16, 2008 8:28 PM
"We all have a purpose and a mission to complete here on Earth and when that is done then it is time for us to go."
Apparently your mission is to be a delusional nitwit.
Posted by: craig | April 16, 2008 8:32 PM
brokenSoldier,
Your moniker alone makes me very sad. I hope you have been able to get counseling to help you deal with the trauma of what you've been through.
Posted by: SC | April 16, 2008 8:33 PM
This kind of crap happens all the time. A devout person(s) survives a disaster and claims that "God had plans for me/God loves me/God hated them." If God thought that person was so special, then why did the others have to die?
Posted by: Mikolgist | April 16, 2008 8:34 PM
Nothing speaks to blind faith as this story...
Get this, two girls are in a car accident, one dies the other is horrible mangled. The parents of the one who was alive stayed with her at the hospital for 5 weeks, caring for her, singing songs to her and praying as hard as they can for her.
After 5 weeks, it is clear that they misidentified the girls, the parents who thought their daughter was alive, now had to deal with the death of their daughter after attending the funeral of the one who was actually alive.
After all this, when asked how it affected his faith, Don Van Ryn said that is just affirmed his faith.
Let me get this straight, God kills your girl, tricks you into thinking that she is alive and then essentially kills her again? And this reaffirms your faith?
you aren't an idiot for thinking your daughter was alive, but the rest of this nonsense? Jeesh.
Posted by: techskeptic | April 16, 2008 8:35 PM
You read through the whole thing and just realized that this post was not about biology? The category was religion and that didn't give it away? Why read it then?
Maybe because you like to be abused. You know you will get treated like the dumbass you are by posting your dumbass shit here. But it's not because we hate people who believe in God that we are blunt with them, it's because we've learned that life without make believe is much better than one lived in la la land. That is a point that needs to be made unequivocally and often.
Posted by: Rick T | April 16, 2008 8:36 PM
PK,
So that serial killer who survives a car wreck is saved by your god because he has more work to do? And that college student who lives, but can no longer walk after an accident, she has more work to do, but just on wheels. And that 2 month old baby that dies in a plane crash? Was he all done with his living?
Vile indeed.
Posted by: eewolf | April 16, 2008 8:38 PM
SC,
I truly appreciate your concern. It is definitely a work in progress, however slow that progress will prove to be.
Posted by: brokenSoldier | April 16, 2008 8:48 PM
And if that opinion were wrong, you would and could never find out that it is wrong.
Neat, eh?
How do you know?
You don't know. You only believe.
What?
I've often encountered the opposite sentiment here: Believers torture themselves with the question of what they had done to deserve a bad thing happen to them. Atheists don't, because they think that random events are just that, not rewards or punishments.
Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | April 16, 2008 8:48 PM
I was in the World Trade Center on 9/11, and escaped (obviously). Many, many of my coworkers and friends did not. I went to various gatherings, wakes, etc. over the next several months.
One of the absolutely most nauseating things I heard, over and over again, was how God must have saved me for some purpose. And they say atheists don't care about the dead?? Saying, "Well, God must have meant for them to die" is supposed to be comfort? There were people I knew who were pregnant (I take it the fetus' purpose had also been fulfilled?) or had young children, people who had graduated college less than a couple of months before that, people who were at the primes of their lives or had just gotten engaged or divorced. To say these people had finished their purpose is ludicrous, to say that they had a better reward in a mythical heaven rather than the reward they would have had seeing their children born and grow up is deluded.
It was simply disgusting. If I'd heard another survivor say it of themselves (I didn't), I may have actually vomited on them.
Posted by: CrypticLife | April 16, 2008 8:49 PM
Planet Killer @ 67 "That is why it is pointless to be an Atheist(hey, thanks for capitalizing the word which lends it more credence than your life!) because we cannot take anything we do here in this life to the next one."
Then in the same sense it is pointless for you to be alive because you will not take anything of yourself anywhere. We as atheists know we are not going anywhere when we die.You however, are sure you are going somewhere when you die, but will never prove it because you cannot prove anything when you are dead. "Here lies the Planet Killer with the Atheist, all dressed up with no place to go!" There, I gave you equal billing in death!
Posted by: Holbach | April 16, 2008 8:50 PM
Brokensoldier: 'If God saved me and took my friend, then the only inference I can draw is that I was somehow meant to live and he wasn't.'
Let me tell a little personal story on that subject:
I was brought up as a Catholic. 15 years ago I was veering towards agnosticism, when my best friend was diagnosed with liver cancer. He was married with a devoted wife and a 3 year old son, and had everything to live for, whereas I was single and suffering from depression. His cancer spread rapidly, to the extent that within 6 months the doctors gave him only weeks to live. During all that time I reinvestigated my faith. I prayed every day for him. I prayed to god to take me instead of him, and I was absolutely sincere in this. I wanted to take his place, as I felt my life was worthless whereas he had everything to live for.
In April 1994 he died. I was at his bedside, his loving wife on the other side, weeping uncontrollably. (It hurts to write this, as it's bringing it all back. But I have to continue.) I was devastated - he was a role model for me; although himself an atheist, he was a devoted husband and father, and would surely have made a name for himself as a scientist of some sort if he had been allowed to finish the degree he was working towards. He was just 33.
Well, after that you can imagine my faith went right out of the window. How could god ignore my genuine unselfish prayer to take his place? The only answer I could come up with at the time was that his time was up; he was such a good man (and he was) that he was called straight to heaven.
But in the months afterwards I started thinking; if that was the case, why did he suffer so much? His last few months were spent in extreme constant pain. He refused to take morphine as he was a believer in mind over matter, but even if he had taken the medication he would still have suffered. If god wanted him in heaven, why not just hit him with a bolt of lightning, or make him trip in front of a bus? Why did he have to suffer? Why put his wife (now a widow) through such torment? Why make his son grow up without his daddy? And why deprive me of my best friend?
So - now I am a hard-boiled atheist. And if that is why god wanted me to live, then he really has shot himself in the foot, hasn't he? He has let me live so I can continue to deny his existence. If he does exist, then he's got some explaining to do when I eventually meet him.
Posted by: Elwood Herring | April 16, 2008 8:51 PM
MikeM in comment #1: Man, you are fast out of the blocks. What a hole shot!
This is typical of religious dogma's nasty affect on rationality due primarily to the notion that one has a "close, personal relationship" with the creator of everything. The notion of special consideration and treatment spills over into all facets of life, particularly those that are later recalled by such revelatory statements as, "I have no idea why I didn't die," or, paraphrased from an AP story earlier today, "There is no reason for us to be alive."
The head cheese of the RCC came to America yesterday, and plans to do all sorts of wonderful stuff. A portion of the welcoming crowd were catholic high school students bussed in specially. Wire stories indicate that they waved, jumped up and down and screamed enthusiastically. Reminds me of when the Beatles came to America.
This same head cheese is often described as a humble man. Interesting considering the RCC considers him the earthly incarnation of the precious savior who is also the creator. That is not humility, it is hubris, plain and simple. Kind of like a Hollywood hanger on talking about her "close, personal relationship with several of the most important producers. Oh, yeah? Do they return your calls?
Posted by: Crudely Wrott | April 16, 2008 8:52 PM
Posted by: Planet Killer | April 16, 2008 7:52 PM
"W