…and this is a 
Hello, new people!
Category: Weblogs
Posted on: April 21, 2008 2:48 PM, by PZ Myers
We're seeing a lot of new traffic here, and a lot of it seems to be people hunting down that infamous P.Z. Myers dude because they read about his evil ways in some publication, or saw the name in some really bad movie. You're at the right place, welcome, go ahead and leave a comment. If you're a creationist, the other commenters here are always hungry for a little fresh meat, and if you're just generally interested in the subjects discussed here, join the conversation. You can find a list of my science articles here, but as long as you've found the place, may I suggest you take a look at the ScienceBlogs main page? There's a legion of other science blogs right here, my next door neighbors, and they'd probably appreciate some visits, too.
And who knows? You may have really bad taste and think one of those other guys has a better blog than mine, and you'll hang out there. I might forgive you.
Comments
:P
Posted by: Matt | April 21, 2008 2:50 PM
You might forgive us?
But forgiveness is a Christian virtue! Obviously, you've been more influenced by Judeo-Christian morality than you've lead us to believe.
Christ be with you!
P.S. Poe's Law seems to require that I point out that this is meant satirically.
Posted by: Etha Williams | April 21, 2008 2:53 PM
Fresh meat!
Posted by: Jimmy Groove | April 21, 2008 2:58 PM
And, really, don't think that some creationist, IDist, or "Expelled" claim is some great new insight that needs to be pointed out to us. We've heard it all, and we've shown that nearly all of them are bogus.
So if you wish to discuss such claims without pretending that we must agree with them, or that they are true beyond question, many people will be willing to discuss them. But if your only point is that science really is religion and close-minded, you had better either have some damn good evidence for such assertions (hint, better than we've seen yet), or you may as well not bother.
We will call the stupid "stupid", and we'll also call the dishonest "liars". It's basic honesty.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: Glen Davidson | April 21, 2008 2:59 PM
You just posted that excellent article on chromosome number variation and you expect people to *go away*? What are you on? ;)
(I don't think I've ever seen a clearer explanation of those mechanisms, and I've seen a few.)
Posted by: Nix | April 21, 2008 3:02 PM
I'm one of the newcomers recently discovering this blog because of its (indirect...almost six degrees) association with a certain film rooted in Stork-Theory.
I study the Milgram Obedience experiment and it's relation to various communication theories year-round and eventually I found my way to Win Ben Stein's latest 'film' and now I'm here.
Posted by: John Voldemort | April 21, 2008 3:04 PM
And pay attention to the comments, visitors!
The smarts around here continue to amaze me - PZ's blog has attracted some brilliant commentors.
You will learn a lot from them.
I do.
Posted by: CalGeorge | April 21, 2008 3:14 PM
#4 Glen:
"We've heard it all, and we've shown that nearly all of them are bogus."
Only 'nearly all'? Which ones have we so unfortunately left out?
Posted by: Etha Williams | April 21, 2008 3:16 PM
I started reading your blog because you're such a great dancer.
Posted by: sibosop | April 21, 2008 3:16 PM
Indeed, I didn't find out about this blog until I saw an internet ad for Ben Stein's latest attempt at endearing himself to the right as their intellectual champion. Though this whole farce of a movie I've gotten to laugh at Stein numerous times, as well as become disgusted by him and his prostitution of the fact that he's Jewish to try to lend a shred of credibility to the ridiculous - and in my opinion, quite immoral - insinuation in the movie that Darwin was responsible for the Holocaust. If that gem, along with having been a speechwriter for our country's Presidential criminal extraordinaire, doesn't spell the exact definition of a man void of intellectual integrity, I don't know what would.
But the silver lining is, of course, that it got me into the blogosphere, and I'm quite enjoying it. Being that this is my first site that I regularly come to and comment on, I believe Pharyngula will be my home site for a while longer!
Posted by: brokenSoldier | April 21, 2008 3:21 PM
Visitors with opinions and/or questions as to whether belief in [Yeshua, Mithra, or...] is essential to good behaviour may find this book by Michael Shermer interesting: The Science of Good and Evil : Why People Cheat, Gossip, Care, Share, and Follow the Golden Rule. The page http://www.amazon.com/Science-Good-Evil-People-Gossip/dp/0805075208 has a link that lets you view excerpts. According to a review on Amazon:
Posted by: Ted Powell | April 21, 2008 3:23 PM
Guess I'm one of the new lurkers, too, seeing as how I'd never heard of scienceblogs until your post about Expelled.
I actually like your science articles the most, to be honest, even if some of them fly over my head on first reading. :)
Posted by: Anna | April 21, 2008 3:24 PM
Ditto on finding your blog because of Expelled (specifically, because of your expulsion from Expelled).
Probably the only good thing that came out of this movie...
Posted by: Etha Williams | April 21, 2008 3:25 PM
You should have pulled a "Are the New Viewers Gone Yet?"
Posted by: Eric | April 21, 2008 3:26 PM
I hasten to add that newcomers can join the Drinking Liberally and Cafe Scientifique (et al) outings should they be in the appropriate areas.
Posted by: BlueIndependent | April 21, 2008 3:27 PM
I'm here to meet all the pretty girls who are known to hang out with science-types. That, and I'm killing time until all those Nigerian millions arrive safely in my account. And also because things are a tad slow at my own blog, so I'd like to learn how it's done from the master.
Posted by: PatrickHenry | April 21, 2008 3:29 PM
I just realized that this is my first year anniversary. One full year of checking this blog daily.
I feel old... and wiser!
Welcome new people!
Posted by: Geoff | April 21, 2008 3:33 PM
Thank you for the welcome, and thanks for sharing your knowledge. A long time ago I was exposed to the idea that people couldn't have moral direction without a creator - which I've come to know as total nonsense. It also impresses me how well computers can "create" using genetic algorithms. I think an obstacle that many people encounter understanding evolution is coming to grips with the enormous span of time that has brought us to our present form.
Thanks PZ for being a voice of reason.
Posted by: splendidmonkey | April 21, 2008 3:38 PM
Well I was drawn here at the very start of the whole 'Expelled' fiasco, when Richard Dawkins told us all over at RD.net that he had been tricked into giving an interview for a creationist film. He also said PZ had been duped too, so I found the link to Pharyngula and have loved reading PZ's stuff ever since, his sarcastic, dry wit reflects my own and as for the cephalopods... they are strangely addictive.
Posted by: Matt | April 21, 2008 3:40 PM
Gosh, I remember my first time stumbling upon that which is Pharyngula. It changed my life, and it can change your too! Simply send a minimum of a young nubile woman to PZ and he wont eat a baby in front of you! Yep, that's right. The sacrificing of young nubile women to PZ will curtail any evil deed done in the name of evilu...er evolution!
Posted by: firemancarl | April 21, 2008 3:51 PM
With apologies to the Clash, Pharyngula is "the only blog that really matters".
Posted by: Badjuggler | April 21, 2008 3:55 PM
I haven't seen the film yet, and reading some of the articles and then watching the trailer, I don't think I'll even bother. Some compare the film to Michael Moore's work, but at least Moore brings forth arguments, and by doing so opens discussions.
The problem with creationism (ID) is that I never hear good arguments.
Creationism is based on sentiments. Science is based on facts, but can't yet provide an answer to everything. As the decades pass, we know more, but knowing more opens doors to other problems we need to find a explanation for. The answer will never be 42, nor will it be god - (maybe there is a small chance it is a Flying Spaghetti Monster though).
Nuff said, I'll keep an eye open for fresh meat WITH arguments.
Yours truly,
Bram, Brussels, Belgium
Posted by: Bram | April 21, 2008 3:55 PM
#20: On top of that, if the postage for a nubile young woman from your locale is too much, you can send her to me, and I can assure you that PZ won't eat a baby in front of you either!
Posted by: Hans | April 21, 2008 3:59 PM
It's here! It's here. Expelled is here! loud proud in the town of Richmond Va. Playing at 4 theaters nonetheless. Don't they have a number of lawsuits against them pending? Seems like they would be in more trouble releasing their masterpiece before settling with all the folks they stole from... To go or not to go... it may be my only chance to see PZ literally larger than life...
Posted by: ash | April 21, 2008 4:01 PM
The smarts around here continue to amaze me - PZ's blog has attracted some brilliant commentors.
You will learn a lot from them.
Especially the ones in the dungeon. :):):)
Posted by: me | April 21, 2008 4:03 PM
They'll be looking for maximum results from the first week, so at least leave it for 10 days or so before visiting. No sense in bumping up their numbers for them. But I suspect they'll be giving it away free on the net within a couple of months. (Though admittedly PZ is unlikely to be larger than life on your monitor.)
Posted by: Stephen | April 21, 2008 4:10 PM
Before I forget, I got the link to this blog from the Guardian (personal feeling: by far the best newspaper on the face of this planet) http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/adam_rutherford/2008/04/devoid_of_intelligence.html
Posted by: Bram | April 21, 2008 4:13 PM
I dunno... if the extreme close-up of Dawkins's nose is anything to judge by, he might still be pretty large.
I was linked here from somewhere (I really have no idea where) back in March for the entry that shows a video of creationists at a museum in Denver.
Posted by: Patrick Conley | April 21, 2008 4:23 PM
Drat. I never got any blog posting noting that I'd started reading this blog. I feel cheated.
I have, however, had blog postings criticizing me both by Vox Day and Gagdad Bob, which was some measure of consolation.
Posted by: CrypticLife | April 21, 2008 4:24 PM
Science, schmience. I'm here for the cephalopod porn. Bring on the tentacle-y goodness.
In all seriousness, thanks for the terrific chromosome posting! It was a great refresher for those of us who've been out of school for --cough-- a while.
Posted by: adobedragon | April 21, 2008 4:27 PM
Yes, welcome, new people! If you are skeptical of evolution, as some call themselves, but are earnestly interested in finding stuff out about it, we will be happy to help. If you ask a question or make a comment, you may get some fairly blunt answers. But if you're asking/remarking in earnest, most of us will be happy to explain things.
You may even find that the answers you get here are more genuine than you're used to. Since this is a scientifically-oriented blog, people here usually have a solid foundation of evidence behind their positions. And there are no sacred cows--no questions you can't ask about something. You may get barked at for asking something that's been asked (and answered) three dozen times already, but that's frustration about having to repeat themselves, not adherence to doctrine.
Posted by: Leon | April 21, 2008 4:27 PM
I've been reading PZ's blog for about a month. I commented on the MySpace page.
For those who don't visit MySpace - here's the comment:
"Thanks for Pharyngula. It's a great way to start the day for a retired science teacher - evolution teacher - turned drum maker."
Posted by: Vince | April 21, 2008 4:28 PM
Been reading almost daily for about 18 months, commented maybe a dozen short ones, one of the half dozen blogs I even consider commenting on.
The folks around here are ferocious toward the wilfully obtuse (and one another). At times it gets so red in tooth and claw you almost expect Attenborough to be doing the voice over. But a genuine question about a relevant topic will find a better answers here than almost anywhere else I know.
I love the fierce insistence on accuracy, verifiability, honest reasoning. I love the profane explosions of long-honed exasperation at pig-headedness. I love the cephalopods - I had no idea how much one could come to stand in awe of the cephalopod.
Posted by: Don | April 21, 2008 4:28 PM
Genomicron may well be the best alternate science blog to PZ's. I have been impressed with it and really enjoy both columns.
Posted by: sjburnt | April 21, 2008 4:29 PM
Actually, I'm here because Thoreau sent me. Lurking about, liking what I'm seeing.
Posted by: shirt | April 21, 2008 4:31 PM
PZ I sent you an email with a set of questions about gene transcription in neurons and variance in popluation. I picked the wrong time as creationists have been sending you lots of questions/hate mail.
My questions were about how intelligence might be determined by genetic factors and how this might be displayed in populations.
Posted by: Amplexus | April 21, 2008 4:31 PM
@20, @23: There's a network of Pee Zed reprobates around the world, so it should be fairly easy to find one close to you; i.e., with low shipping costs for the nubile young women...
Babies don't cost that much to ship and Pee Zed will appreciate the fresh food. In fact, if the network doesn't keep him fed, he's likely to show at your door, rip it off with one of his many tentacles, and drink all your beer. Then he'll go crash a movie or something...
In-between these Adventures of the Kraken Overlords, there some fecking good science here and elsewhere on SciBlogs. And thoughtful, fact-filled debunking. It pays to read both the posts and also the comments. A careful reader should notice that critical comments are not, as a rule, deleted. Persistent obnoxiousness or stupidity can result in banning, moderation, disemvoweling, or most often, ridicule. Honest mistakes may result in some jocular ribbing, and if you're "lucky", another in-joke, but supplying a nubile young woman will quickly put an end to that...
And welcome!
Posted by: blf | April 21, 2008 4:33 PM
The funniest part of Expelled was the last interchange between Dawkins and Stein. It was also very revealing and unmasks support for Darwin isn't based on evidence but on a world view that is hostile to religion. The rest of Darwin's team in Expelled come off as not part of science as well. I know a lot of guys who work in science and they don't prsent themselves this way when they discuss ideas in the area of expertise.
Posted by: Bill | April 21, 2008 4:35 PM
Oooh, pegged me. I've started reading Pharyngula on a regular basis for about a month now. Good topics and conversation. I have enjoyed the back and forth nature of many a blog comment section.
Posted by: GreenMeteor | April 21, 2008 4:35 PM
I am and always have been here for the barbeque.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | April 21, 2008 4:36 PM
@ Bill #28
Could you be more specific please?
Posted by: Amplexus | April 21, 2008 4:37 PM
Beware newbie creationists. This is not where you want to start criticizing evolution or atheists. These are the most well-informed, sarcastic, and sharp commenters on the web. It will be a bloody, brutal, and (fun for me) takedown..you don't want to cut your teeth here. But, if you're brave, please do. I love reading the comments here just for that:) The commenters, plus PZ, make this the best blog on the web.
Posted by: sabrina | April 21, 2008 4:37 PM
Actually, I'm a long time reader, just not a very good commenter. So I figure it's about time I stop lurking about and poke my nose in various biological stuff (not literally mind you) and fun debates.
Posted by: Jamdark | April 21, 2008 4:39 PM
I teach 7th grade biology about 10 miles from Cornell University. You'd think the influence would leach out, I know. Today, two students told me about the "amazing movie" they saw over the weekend. To her surprise, I told the one student that I'd like to see it but will probably pay for another movie and sneak into that one as to not support that particular brand of propaganda. She then offered to pay for my ticket. Straight out of the AIG playbook. I feel sorry for these kids.
Posted by: Chad | April 21, 2008 4:41 PM
I come here because I feel the same way about religion as you do. I'd like to add that I had you as a genetics prof. five or six years ago. :)
Posted by: Jay | April 21, 2008 4:42 PM
Posted by: Leonb | April 21, 2008 4:45 PM
It will be a bloody, brutal, and (fun for me) takedown..you don't want to cut your teeth here.
this is where we figuratively get to beat the creobots with spiked clubs like baby seals.
something none of us would consider being a logical course of action outside of electronic media.
which of course is why so many of us enjoy it; it's a great place to vent frustrations that outside of this little forum often require hours of patient conversation and evidentiary argumentation instead.
not that that never happens here, but there is a "three strike" rule in place (I'm not kidding - PZ has tried several times to clarify it on different threads):
If a creobot comes in here, they get (usually) three chances to suggest their ignorance is honest before we bring out the spiked clubs.
that law does not apply in cases where creationists have already taken liberties in a given thread, and another creationist comes in and then repeats the exact same refuted points (which happens frequently - here as well as outside of the electronic media).
the clubs are already out at that point.
Posted by: Ichthyic | April 21, 2008 4:50 PM
Hello, I am a new person- I've been reading since the Expelled from Expelled debacle, subscribed to the RSS and have been reading eagerly ever since...wanted to comment a few times but never got round to it, and now seems ideal!
I'm in the UK- brought up a Catholic, converted to being a pentacostalist, soon snapped out of it but learned much from my experience. Am now a happy little atheist, with a keen interest in religion and the religious, and human behaviour.
I never studied science at school very much- partly because it was presented in quite a dull way. I gravitated towards arty stuff, and ended up doing an English Lit degree. I've been trying to catch up as an adult, enrolling at night classes in physics for example, because I hate having holes in my knowledge.
So I'm afraid (!) that I'm not a creationist. However, I must say something in their favour- I have learned more about evolution and biology in general by debating creationists than I have any other way. Creationist will make silly statement. I will think "Well, I'm sure that's wrong, but I'm not sure I could explain why." So I get myself over to talkorigins or any one of a number of excellent resources, and I read up, and I learn. So for that, thank you creationists!
But for everything else, no thank you very much.
In conclusion, hi there!
Posted by: Faintpraise | April 21, 2008 4:50 PM
hi everyone,
i'm a long-time reader, first-time commenter (except for that hilarious account when pz got kicked out of expelled but dawkins got in)
i know that you guys dont need any help dismantling creationist claims, but this time i'll probaby help out too =) i've probably been reading blogs for long enough to respond appropriately, ahah
Posted by: sasha | April 21, 2008 4:53 PM
I have learned more about evolution and biology in general by debating creationists than I have any other way
teaching (or even trying to) is often said to be the best way to learn a subject.
I think you will find that over time, the creationists will no longer pose a sufficient challenge for you to learn more, however.
I'm now a happy little atheist
You mean you're not a bitter hater, like the creobots like to project?
:P
congrats!
Posted by: Ichthyic | April 21, 2008 4:56 PM
"Blogging" Who'd have thought? :-) I just recently stumbled into the blogosphere a few weeks ago and in one foray found pharynugla while reading a newsy item about Ben Stein and Exposed. I'm a little unclear why there is so much effort brought forth to try and scientifically justify matters of faith. Counterintuitive at least to me, but I'm looking forward to reading much more from both sides.
And I have to say PZ, your really have an exceptional talent for explanation. That recent post on changing chromosome numbers was superb. Thanks!
Posted by: Geo | April 21, 2008 4:57 PM
I've tried, but I'm afraid I can't resist. It's a strange compulsion. Whenever, wherever anyone is discussing the evolutionary origins of morality, I must swoop in and shout it out: KROPOTKIN!
There. I feel better. It's not that he closed the book on the subject by any means; just that given enduring caricatures I'm driven to point out that a major trailblazer in this field was in fact an anarchist.
I'm also leaving shortly for Boston Skeptics in the Pub
http://bostonskeptics.wordpress.com/
and wouldn't have been able to relax there had I not honored his memory by inserting his name into this thread.
I found the ScienceBlogs through a link provided by Mooney somewhere, ending up here shortly thereafter. Go figure.
Posted by: SC | April 21, 2008 4:58 PM
It's a pretty good site, but has too much squid and not enough astronomy. I'd be happy with space-squid, though.
And I was impressed by the chromosone counting post as well.
Posted by: aiabx | April 21, 2008 4:59 PM
I'm with you Faintpraise. I've learned more about evolutionary biology, ironically due to creationists. They really keep you on your toes; and learning. I always hope that before a creationist starts mouthing off, they go visit talkorigins; but they never do. Just use the same tired, old, discredited arguments.
Posted by: sabrina | April 21, 2008 4:59 PM
for those unfamiliar, you might also try directing honestly (not willfully) ignorant folks over to the UC Berkeley site that covers the basics of evolution too:
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/
some find it easier to parse than talkorigins, and there are a lot of great resources for teachers too.
Posted by: Ichthyic | April 21, 2008 5:02 PM
@#44: I'm a grad student at Cornell, and I'm involved in science outreach. The CCMR in campus has very good resources and outreach activities. If you'd like to, we can communicate and plan something up :)
Posted by: Brigit | April 21, 2008 5:04 PM
Well, I haven't read the other comments yet, but since I was called out in this entry LOL I figured I'd finally say something. I'm one of the new lurkers and have been getting the biggest kick out of reading so many other intelligent thoughts on the unnecessary "evolution debate". It's helped me write a few things myself and reminded me that I'm not the only one who feels like banging my head against the desk when someone asks why there are still monkeys.
My boyfriend happened upon Richard Dawkins' site discussing Expelled when the information started coming out about it and then I took a look and followed a link here. I have wandered to a few other scienceblogs blogs, but this is the one I have bookmarked. Who knows, I might even become your neighbor if my current writing site doesn't open up blogs soon like they promised.
I have a PhD in Experimental Pathology and briefly taught graduate school courses. My research was on the genetics of hypertension, particularly SNPs that increase the susceptibility of certain populations (African-American vs Caucasian for example). I am now a freelance writer and edit scientific manuscripts. My current pet peeves are the Pope, George W.'s string pullers, Ben Stein, religious fundamentalists of any persuasion, and the Discovery Institute.
Posted by: Alicia P | April 21, 2008 5:05 PM
I've been reading for a few months after coming across the author's remarks in a Chronicle of Higher Ed article (http://chronicle.com/daily/2008/02/1552n.htm). Lots of great posts, with equally great comments. I enjoy sharing pharyngula posts via google reader with my crazy xian brother.
Posted by: gir | April 21, 2008 5:05 PM
As a guy who works in science and 'discusses ideas in the area of expertise' (whatever the hell that means), I have to wonder: are creationists at all able to act competently in public, or do they always spew random non sequiturs without any provocation?
I shudder to think of life in the Bible belt must be like:
Bus Driver: "Hello Ma'am. That'll be two-fifty, please."
Creowoman: "No one has EVER seen a duck turn into a potato! JESUS hates Stoned Wheat Thins! Ben Stein knows that ATHEISTS CAUSED HITLER!"
What about shopping?
Clerk: "Hello Sir. Is there anything I can help you find today?"
Creoman: "Apes VIOLATE the second Law of Thermodynamics. My brother had cancer and was CURED by prayer after surgery and two years of chemotherapy. 'Course, it came back when his daughter moved to NEW YORK to lived with LIBERAL HOMOSEXUALS."
Glad you know some 'guys who work in science,' Bill, but you might want to get to know some specialists in etiquette instead, so you'll know it's rude to wander into a conversation and begin to blather about whatever's got your underwear in a knot at the time.
Posted by: Brownian, OM | April 21, 2008 5:06 PM
I found your blog about 2 years ago from a mention on Ed Brayton's blog. I don't get to visit either of you as often as I would like, but you're still quite ... stimulating.
Yes, both of you. (And don't make me choose favorites, either!)
Posted by: John | April 21, 2008 5:08 PM
Hi. New here. Hello.
Since science is all wrong all the time, I think it is important to explicitly note those things that science gets right.
For example, as a creationist, I naturally speak in Comic Sans. Occasionally I speak in Bookman Oldstyle Bold when impregnated with the righteous ire of God. P.Z. has noticed this phenomenon, so kudos to him.
Everything else a scientist has ever observed is false, however.
Posted by: Hoatzin P. Greene | April 21, 2008 5:09 PM
or do they always spew random non sequiturs without any provocation?
I'm going with that as being rhetorical in nature.
Posted by: Ichthyic | April 21, 2008 5:09 PM
Forgive me father, for I need promotion.
Can't you link to my blog on your main page and say "this guy's blog rocks and makes awesome points"?
Seriously!
http://copache.wordpress.com/2008/04/21/a-fundamental-problem/
Posted by: Copache | April 21, 2008 5:11 PM
I've been reading/posting to talk.origins for years now, so I have no excuse for not following this blog before. I always knew it existed but thought it would just the same old stuff as on Usenet. But ever since the hilarious Expelled thread I've been hooked.
Posted by: Cheezits | April 21, 2008 5:11 PM
The funniest part of Expelled was the last interchange between Dawkins and Stein. It was also very revealing and unmasks support for Darwin isn't based on evidence but on a world view that is hostile to religion. The rest of Darwin's team in Expelled come off as not part of science as well. I know a lot of guys who work in science and they don't prsent themselves this way when they discuss ideas in the area of expertise.
Posted by: Bill | April 21, 2008 4:35 PM
This is actually an interesting point to Expelled, and one that will surprise many people because it didn't require that the interview be edited.
Ben Stein asks Dawkins: Is there any way intelligent design could be true?
Dawkins replies by talking about the notion of Panspermia (which if you read any of Dawkins' books about evolution you know he doesn't believe in) and that an intelligent alien could be the designer. Since he's talking about aliens, Creationists assume Dawkins is a loon, but it relies on the audience not noticing that Dawkins was asked to describe intelligent design. Which obviously Bill has failed to notice.
Dawkins looks silly, Creationists get their "HAW HAW" moment, but it doesn't take much thought to notice their laughter is misplaced.
Posted by: Phoca | April 21, 2008 5:14 PM
Caught. I was linked by a friend around the time of the "Expelled expulsion" and have been reading regularly since. I turned him on to atheism and biology but he got me reading PZ. I'm Canadian and we don't see as much of this IDeology where I am, so some of the stories I read on Pharyngula are kind of shocking in the sense that it's hard to imagine people really believing in that junk. I'll admit that I'm impressed by the humour and intelligence not only of PZ but of the people that comment; I was certainly compelled to come back for more. The cephalopods are cute to look at too!
Posted by: lambikins | April 21, 2008 5:17 PM
As a 60-something liberal atheist I find this to be a comforting and spiritually uplifting place to hang out most of the time, although your tendency to refer to people my age as "senile doddering fools" makes me gnash my gums. You are ok, PZ, but you have the best commenters on the interwebs which makes this my preferred placed to lurk.
Posted by: eleventhwheel | April 21, 2008 5:19 PM
I first read PZ's blog way back when he was hosting it on a computer in his own lab. I remember how proud he was the first time his daughter posted a well reasoned refutation of one of the common arguments for the existence of god on her blog.
Posted by: John Hamilton | April 21, 2008 5:20 PM
I first read PZ's blog way back when he was hosting it on a computer in his own lab. I remember how proud he was the first time his daughter posted a well reasoned refutation of one of the common arguments for the existence of god on her blog.
Posted by: John Hamilton | April 21, 2008 5:21 PM
I first read PZ's blog way back when he was hosting it on a computer in his own lab. I remember how proud he was the first time his daughter posted a well reasoned refutation of one of the common arguments for the existence of god on her blog.
Posted by: John Hamilton | April 21, 2008 5:22 PM
I first read PZ's blog way back when he was hosting it on a computer in his own lab. I remember how proud he was the first time his daughter posted a well reasoned refutation of one of the common arguments for the existence of god on her blog.
Posted by: John Hamilton | April 21, 2008 5:24 PM
I came here with the hope of learning how to grow a nifty beard.
Unfortunately, it's not been working, and I'm catching onto you, Myers. This is, most certainly, not a beard blog.
Posted by: Dan | April 21, 2008 5:28 PM
One more vote of thanks to the creationists. My background is in particle physics (a dry, odorless science). Nothing in my high school biology class thirty years ago prompted me to delve any further into the field. Then maybe five years ago a physics friend/colleague of mine said someone at a bookstore told him some "very interesting" things about evolution. Did you know they still put stuff in biology books about peppered moths, EVEN THOUGH THEY KNOW IT WAS ALL FAKE !!! Within less than a month, a fairly bright student at the college where I work came by asking me about those same damned moths. It seemed so weird to me, that I sacrificed my own precious time and energy and typed something into Google, and out popped a discussion of "Icons of Evolution" at talk.origins. I was stunned ! I grew up in Baton Rouge (in the pre-whore Jimmy Swaggert days) so I knew how clueless and sleazy the fundies could be, but I was in no way prepared for how skilled and effective (at lying) they have become : two very smart people taken hook line and sinker. Anyway, since then, and especially around the run-up to Dover, I've been reading Pandas Thumb and Pharyngula a lot. Plus, I bum "desk copy" textbooks from my bio friends and (try to) read through them as well. I'm seriously challenged at remembering the huge volume of data that makes up modern biology, but to the extent that I can follow the concepts, I now find it totally fascinating. And the selection of popular press books seems way up to.
All thanks to the creos.
Posted by: jeff | April 21, 2008 5:29 PM
Echo! -cho -cho -cho ...
Posted by: Naked Bunny with a Whip | April 21, 2008 5:29 PM
I was reading John Hamiltion's posts and got a strange sense of deja vu after reading the first three. Anyone else?
Posted by: Amplexus | April 21, 2008 5:32 PM
@#56 Thanks Brigit...Cornell has amazing outreach and that is one of the things I love most about this area. My small town has a big church that has too big of an influence. I'd love to set something up though. My email is @ the link. Thanks.
Posted by: Chad | April 21, 2008 5:33 PM
Interesting comparison here. Dr Myers welcomes new visitors and encourages debate and differing viewpoints.
For a few weeks before Expelled opened, I wrote an essay and posted it on blogs that showed the trailer for the movie and encouraged readers to see it.
My essay pointed out facts that were not addressed in the movie, it was not a rant, and it didn't even address God in any way.
Here are some findings, after responding to over 150 sites at 42% of the sites, my essay was never even posted on the site.
Another 9% posted my essay with no response.
22% responded, but either didn't address the points I brought up, or didn't publish my follow-up response.
9% responded with insults and hatred.
Only 18% responded and allowed thoughtful debate.
I say that Pharyngula shows true academic freedom.
Thanks PZ!
Posted by: Benjamin Franklin | April 21, 2008 5:33 PM
OMG, do you think his post... might have .... replicated itself ?
Posted by: jeff | April 21, 2008 5:34 PM
I'll take "Quadruple Post" for $500, Alex.
Posted by: BobbyEarle | April 21, 2008 5:35 PM
O Goody ( rubs hands together), some of these new people HAVE to be creationists just dying to show off their erudite and well though out arguments. Bring it oooonnnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!!!!
Just as a warning though, if any of you mention Hitler, its getting pretty fucking old and repetetive.
Posted by: Bride of Shrek | April 21, 2008 5:35 PM
I first began reading posts and comments here after reading Dawkins' TGD. Its a bit addicting actually, finding other people stating things that clearly make sense, arguments that are entertaining as well as thought-provoking, and also help me overcome my early religious indoctrination. I'm now awaiting PZ's book. I'm sure it will be even more excellent than his posts since its taking so long. I'm hoping too, that he gives a bit and writes a few chapters a few of us self-educated, lesser educated, and uneducated-yet-searching, can grasp. This would be important I think in this fight. Thank you very much for this site and for you excellent people who comment here.
Posted by: Bob V | April 21, 2008 5:36 PM
@ #73 Jeff: I found it really difficult to remember all the formulas and ratios of the forces on particles/wave packets. I guess I have an empirically thinking mind but biology always appealed to be because so much of biology can be understood without formulas. It's highly conceptual. The only parts that really require some sort of mathematical thinking are statistics portions like genetic drift via sampling error. To me at least i found biology a very satisfying and deep field that seems to follow rules that are intuitive and more like what we experience day to day.
Posted by: Amplexus | April 21, 2008 5:37 PM
I first read PZ's blog way back when he was hosting it on a computer in his own lab. I remember how proud he was the first time his daughter posted a well reasoned refutation of one of the common arguments for the existence of god on her blog.
Posted by: John Hamilton | April 21, 2008 5:38 PM
I first read PZ's blog way back when he was hosting it on a computer in his own lab. I remember how proud he was the first time his daughter posted a well reasoned refutation of one of the common arguments for the existence of god on her blog.
Posted by: John Hamilton | April 21, 2008 5:39 PM
John Hamilton,
Now you're just taking the piss now aren't you. I know the excitment of being amongst us Pharyngulites is giving you the nervous shakes but get your finger off the Post button lad.
Posted by: Bride of Shrek | April 21, 2008 5:40 PM
I think that John Hamiliton done clogged the tubes. The intwebs is backing up from the septic tank
Posted by: Amplexus | April 21, 2008 5:40 PM
I'll confess to being a newbie. Heard an interview with PZ on an New England Skeptical Society podcast and have been dropping in occasionally since then.
Posted by: Steve | April 21, 2008 5:45 PM
I first read PZ's blog way back when he was hosting it on a computer in his own lab. I remember how proud he was the first time his daughter posted a well reasoned refutation of one of the common arguments for the existence of god on her blog.
Posted by: John Hamilton | April 21, 2008 5:46 PM
Alex reveals the question...Sweet babblin' mother of go