Pharyngula

Vogon Poetry is right.

Posted by: Siamang | April 10, 2008 1:21 PM

I love the implication that if a man doesn't believe in God, he won't be sad when his wife dies.

Yeah.

Posted by: Braxton Thomason | April 10, 2008 1:24 PM

I got an email from Rzeppa about this. After reading the story and being thoroughly confused about what exactly the point he was trying to get across was, I sent him an email asking about the question he wanted to ask Dawkins. I knew he probably wouldn't tell me but I figured it couldn't hurt to ask. Here was his response:

Jackie, Jackie.

You know I can't reveal the question until the big moment. It would take all the fun out of the thing! And it would put a premature end to all of the beneficial searching, pondering, and discussing that is the whole point of the affair.

But I'll tell you what. If you can discern the question ahead of time, I'll send you a free autographed copy of my little book immediately after the show. Even if you don't want it, you can sell it on ebay as a collector's item!

Gerry

Haha...a collector's item...

Posted by: Jackie Stone | April 10, 2008 1:25 PM

Could this guy open up his challenge to some grad students? Geez, I'd listen to whatever schlock he wanted to spew for $64K. I would like some assurance that he has it, though. I should send him my contact info in case Dawkins has too much class or sense to show up.

Posted by: Jim RL | April 10, 2008 1:27 PM

Mr. Dawkins, if you accept, just remember that it's "42."

Posted by: Milo Johnson | April 10, 2008 1:37 PM

Damn, I'm missing all the fun.

I can only see the front cover of his book when I click on the links. Is it overwhelmed by Pharyngulic traffic? Is it because I'm in Canada? Is anyone else having this problem? Am I the lucky one?

Posted by: Jason Failes | April 10, 2008 1:38 PM

I can't even read this bullshit. Maybe his question is about the font. There must have been a designer for anything that terrible to exist.

Posted by: danley | April 10, 2008 1:41 PM

PLEASE stop making me snort coffee on my keyboard.

Posted by: Liesele | April 10, 2008 1:43 PM

I hereby submit my poem, hopefully it will ease the pain of reading that awful book.

See, see the wise sky
Marvel at its big orange depths.
Tell me, Jessica do you
Wonder why the your mom ignores you?
Why its foobly stare
makes you feel ugh.
I can tell you, it is
Worried by your fgchuougljk facial growth
That looks like
A soda.
What's more, it knows
Your plunk potting shed
Smells of algae.
Everything under the big wise sky
Asks why, why do you even bother?
You only charm crayfishs.

(Thanks for the vogon poetry generator link!)

Posted by: Matt | April 10, 2008 1:44 PM

I think "some of the parts" of this guy's brain are missing.

Posted by: Rene | April 10, 2008 1:46 PM

So, PZ, have you ever managed to slashdot another site before?

Posted by: freelunch | April 10, 2008 1:46 PM

No, he shouldn't make a large file .png his homepage.

Design git.

Posted by: Mike Haubrich, FCD | April 10, 2008 1:47 PM

Wow, 6,400 Truth Tickets would offset a lot of stupid. But it's a deep, deep pile of stupid, and I don't know if it'd make that big a dent.

Posted by: Epinephrine | April 10, 2008 1:49 PM

Hmmm, seems to be pharyngulized.

Posted by: Dahan | April 10, 2008 1:51 PM

My Vogon poem after plugging in some Jebus-sounding words to the vogon poem generator:

See, see the holy sky
Marvel at its big gray depths.
Tell me, god do you
Wonder why the Christian ignores you?
Why its foobly stare
makes you feel resurrected.
I can tell you, it is
Worried by your nogloid facial growth
That looks like
A the meaning of life.
What's more, it knows
Your Shunt potting shed
Smells of Holy Spirit.
Everything under the big holy sky
Asks why, why do you even bother?
You only charm jesuss.

Posted by: Wes | April 10, 2008 1:58 PM

I'd actually like to see Dawkins accept and put all the money directly towards the RDF or some other charity. Perhaps he could use it to distribute free copies of his books :)

Posted by: Rave | April 10, 2008 2:03 PM

Smells of Holy Spirit.

Smells like holy spirit?
I smell a big hit!

Posted by: Janine, ID | April 10, 2008 2:04 PM

Would it kill him to use legible script?

I guess while his mother was dispensing soap box knowledge, she forgot, "Oh, and always write legibly, so you don't look like a git"

Posted by: John C. Welch | April 10, 2008 2:05 PM

Poor guy. He seems willing to pay his life savings to be noticed by RD.

Surely he can't imagine it will happen? Or imagine that, if it did, it would generate enough sales of that pious piffle to make back his stake.

Posted by: Don | April 10, 2008 2:06 PM

I'd accept the challenge. He does not stipulate that there must be a correct answer! Whatever the question is, I would answer: "I don't know". Sweet!

Mind you, I suspect that Richard is reasonably wealthy and that an extra $64,000 (£32,000) would make no difference to his life at all.

missus_gumby

Posted by: missus_gumby | April 10, 2008 2:08 PM

(Sorry, Coyote. I didn't do it on purpose. Honestly, I didn't.)

Posted by: MikeM | April 10, 2008 2:11 PM

Perhaps it would be something as "Are you still beating your wife?" type of question.

I don't trust the whole "Come, I'm a friendly person, I have writen a children's book... here.... take some money, I don't mind, but follow me."

Posted by: Brian Tani | April 10, 2008 2:12 PM

Carlie @ #22: Actually no 'Pyramid' was for $64k. There were $10k, $25k, and $100k variations. You're thinking of the rigged $64,000 Question from the 50's. (Rigged until Dr. Joyce Brothers took them for the full $64k when they wanted to off her weeks earlier.)

As for if this guy has the money, here's the solution: the person (Dawkins or whomever this dude wants to challenge) sits in a chair in the middle of the stage, listens to whole thing, they wheel out the $64k in stacks of $20s, dramatic music in the background, then they get asked the question to which they immediately get out of the chair, grab the money from the table and take off.

Or answer his question only if he gets to listen to ten minutes worth of their poetry.

Posted by: Brian Knoblock | April 10, 2008 2:14 PM

"So, Dawk, do you like gladiator movies?"

Posted by: ennui | April 10, 2008 2:19 PM

Ooo, silhouettes and some in grayscale, too, brilliant! Not.

Actually, it looks like bad cut & paste from some religious-themed clip art book.

I didn't understand the use of the tomb imagery with text indicating a burial. A silhouette hole in the ground wouldn't be that difficult, surely. To draw or understand.

All in all, it's insufferable tripe. And yet, I can't seem to look away. I'd say it's like a car wreck, but I don't have any trouble not looking at one of those. This must be worse...

He seems real proud of himself for being the Dr. Seuss of the bizarro world, though.

Posted by: dwarf zebu | April 10, 2008 2:21 PM

Bad, #48:

It's just unbelievably slow, mostly because of its design.

For the record, I would NEVER write one of my web pages as all-.GIFs. Jesus Monkey, that's hideous.

All .gif + getting Pharyngulated = Holy crap, this is slow.

PS: I really like your blog.

Posted by: MikeM | April 10, 2008 2:24 PM

Argh. Another complaint about the slowness here. Why would Jesus have a hooded black cape? I thought that was Death.
The rhymes don't even measure up to a Hallmark card. What a load of tripe.

Posted by: Carlie | April 10, 2008 2:27 PM

Finally, got through it.
It turns out I WAS better off before.

A brief review:

-The father's characterization is nothing like any secular parent I have ever met or heard of. The only thing I can think of that would explain his outburst is if his wife's beliefs had led directly to her death, say by refusing medical treatment such as a blood transfusion. (However, more likely it's just the author telling us what atheists are like, again)

-The box picture looks like the "face" on Mars. Is he trying to illustrate the human tendency to find patterns where none exist?

-I can't help but note that the world does not work that way at all. There are no mystical strangers with glowing puzzle pieces helping out mourning children.
What does it say when you have to make up things that never happened to defend spiritual entities that never existed?

-The guy with the hammer is just stupid. He might as well have put him in a blank room with the title "Atheist's Reward". It doesn't work that way.

-"but I think you've had enough" Truer words have never been spoken, but then he continues!

-Isn't the mourning process about coming to accept the passing of a loved one and learning to live without them? This book attempts to do the opposite, to make sure you never deal with their passing and never accept that they are gone.

As an aside, I've always wondered how much further along life-saving and life-extending biotechnology would be if we were not influenced to procrastinate by various myths that deflect the fear of death by telling us we don't really die.

Posted by: Jason Failes | April 10, 2008 2:27 PM

There's 1/2 hour of my life I'll never get back.

I'll answer the damn question.

Cut me a check.

Posted by: Colin J | April 10, 2008 2:30 PM

"Richard, does this smell like ether to you?"

Posted by: gir | April 10, 2008 2:34 PM

64K may not be a lot for RD, but I'd be glad to take that man's money. I'll even stand there and accept Jesus (or any deity, really) as my lord and savior. Does the 64K include travel expenses?

Posted by: Alex | April 10, 2008 2:37 PM

I say Dawkins should do it. There is apparently no requirement that the question be answered correctly. The nutter could ask his question and Dawkins could respond with something like, "Maybe." Then he could use the money and provide everyone in the audience with a free copy of The God Delusion.

Posted by: Doug | April 10, 2008 2:39 PM

As a side note, I shall now write all further research papers in pentatonic verse and include graphs only in silhouette.

Posted by: Emmet Caulfield | April 10, 2008 2:40 PM

Although I suppose I'm an atheist, I guess I'm a pretty wimpish one: What I would ask a really muscular atheist, is:
"how do you comfort a child whose mother has died?".
I think I would dissemble, lie, and tell the kid she's gone to h...
Peter.

Posted by: Peter | April 10, 2008 2:42 PM

You know, I wouldn't be surprised if Rzeppa's $64,000 mystery question is supposed to be something along the lines of "Will you now accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior?"

If Dawkins says "No," then the writer owes him no money, because Dawkins didn't answer the question correctly, now, did he? Tsk, tsk.

If Dawkins says "Yes," however, then Rzeppa would be more than happy to give him $64,000, figuring that sales of his sad little book will subsequently skyrocket (which is probable) and he himself will become an evangelical hero.

Don't forget that a lot of Christians really do believe in the magic power of God and His capacity to work miracles. All rational evidence to the contrary aside, Rzeppa could very well be anticipating the second scenario -- with the penitent and humbled atheist professor sinking slowly to his knees in surrender. It would make such a very good story, you see -- and Rzeppa has probably been living very happily for a long time in the religious Story Land inside his own head.

Posted by: Sastra | April 10, 2008 2:44 PM

Ack! It keeps getting worse, and now he's using the tomb icon for the shed!!

the awfulness, it burns! And yet, I STILL can't look away...

"The maker said that glistenings won't stick to things of clay"

????

"Look for boys with sense enough to come in from the rain."

Guess we're not looking for the kid to get married...

Posted by: dwarf zebu | April 10, 2008 2:45 PM

I'll answer the question for $640.

Posted by: ndt | April 10, 2008 2:49 PM

For everyone who thinks Dawkins should simply show up, answer the question, and collect the money, just remember that it probably won't be that easy. Kooks love issuing challenges. Getting them to pay up is the problem.

I'm reminded of the time Alfred Russel Wallace set out to collect a 500 pound bet issued by a flat-earth kook. He successfully proved the Earth was curved, was declared the winner of the wager by an appointed judge, then spent several decades being harrassed by the kook who refused to accept the decision. From wiki: (http://tinyurl.com/6kl4zr)

The judge for the wager, the editor of Field magazine, declared Wallace the winner, but Hampden refused to accept the result. He sued Wallace and launched a campaign, which persisted for several years, of writing letters to various publications and to organizations of which Wallace was a member denouncing him as a swindler and a thief. Wallace won multiple libel suits against Hampden, but the resulting litigation cost Wallace more than the amount of the wager and the controversy frustrated him for years.

So while it may seem like easy money, it's usually best to ignore these types of "challenges." It's not worth the grief they bring. Kooks are not capable of being intellectually honest--otherwise they wouldn't be kooks.

Posted by: H.H. | April 10, 2008 2:57 PM

Rzeppa: So Richard, tell me, what is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?

Richard: What do you mean, African or European?

Rzeppa: I don't know that!

*whooshing sound as Rzeppa is whisked away*

*Dawkins wheels money offstage*

Posted by: Richard Wolford | April 10, 2008 3:03 PM

'Ksake. An earwig could write better than that.

My mother, many years ago
Was eaten by a bear
But Father was an atheist
And so he didn't care.

I didn't read the rest of it,
But I suppose I might
If you paid me all that money
And you redesigned your site.

Posted by: MissPrism | April 10, 2008 3:04 PM

I don't really care about the wonks of Richard Dawkins, nor do I want any onions. What a strange man.

Posted by: Ginger Yellow | April 10, 2008 3:11 PM

Firstly, never accept the first offer, so make him up it.

Secondly, ensure the money is on the table for the appearance, not some as the prize for the 'right' answer.

But that's only if you're even thinking of touching the idea with a ten foot barge pole.

Posted by: Goatboy | April 10, 2008 3:14 PM

I kind of like it. The lines mainly scan, and if you excuse the cheap metrics, there's some rudimentary balance, motifs that recur (though rather ponderously), and a building sense of narrative. It's a nice piece of composition when you consider his audience's parameters for poetry and their low tolerance for abstraction. The font and graphics are also appropriate for his genre. It wasn't long ago that a cursive font was the height of innovation. Though I'm pretty sure that's a typo on about 40 where it appears to say "glisters"--unless that is an acceptable hybrid of glitter and glisten. The fool tossing random tiles and demanding "selection" from passersby is a focused but effective metaphor, again considering the requirements of an audience with unassailable certainty and no curiosity. He sneaks in some language play, probably quite revolutionary by the standards of his audience who are impressed by "sonshine" no matter how many times they see it. He has created an alternative and somewhat innovative analogy for a clientele who equate creativity with anarchy, and though it's occasionally derivative it is at times downright complex, though that may be accidental. I think it's the best hidebound christianist doggerel I've read in a long time.

ice

Posted by: ice9 | April 10, 2008 3:18 PM

I dunno, the part where the narrator kicks God in the knee is pretty cool. Other than that, meh.

Posted by: stillnotking | April 10, 2008 3:30 PM

That was clearly not a picture of a baby boy; it looked more like a bear to me. And given that it was just a mosaic (and not a very good one, at that), why did the kid get so upset about it having been hit with a hammer? Why refer to it as "dead"?

Also, I'm pretty sure the moral of the story is that god only appears indoors, during a rainstorm.

Posted by: wintermute | April 10, 2008 3:38 PM

I couldn't make it past part 1...

"There's nothing here but what you see"

I can't see Gamma radiation, but I know I don't want to be anywhere near it, at least not without a lot of lead between me and it. ;-)

"No one's ever seen a thought"

Some neuroscientists might beg to differ on that.

...And fine, yeah, we honor the dead by "keeping them in our thoughts"...part of why most of us try to live a decent life, be fair to our fellows, etc. It seems to be psychologically important for us to be fondly remembered after death. Bill Hicks has been dead for over a decade, yet I still fondly remember him, and thanks to YouTube, can still see him, preserved in time, from the high point of his career. He probably has more fans now, thanks to the Internet, than he had, numerically speaking, when he was alive.

I still fondly remember my grandparents--all deceased now. There's nothing diminished in appreciating those memories by not believing they're up in some magical place waiting for me even now.

The narrator's dad is supposed to be the stereotypical "angry atheist", as imagined by theists, I suppose.

I recall I once told my once-and-future theist Ex-wife, back when we were still a couple, that I accepted the concept of "Soul" only in a strictly poetic since, meaning losely something like the union of one's integrity, one's personality, history, experience, one's experience of self and other's experience of yourself, etc. and that I did not believe it survives bodily death, since it's a construct of a very real, material brain at work.

I was trying to be generous, and she was in an agnostic funk at the time. But she never could accept my concept, always insisted the view that "the soul" was REAL, crudely manifest, literal spook-in-the-machine, etc. As she drifted back toward theism, I finally had to break things off...mainly because she was a control freak but also because we were increasingly simply incompatible because our world views were so out of synch with each other.

Anyway, to compare the book with Vogon poetry is an unfair insult to Vogons ;-)

Posted by: JJR | April 10, 2008 3:41 PM