Pharyngula

Posted by: Holbach | April 16, 2008 9:03 AM

There is the picture of absolute insanity without doing anything. Can any illustration portray it definitively?

Posted by: Sioux Laris | April 16, 2008 9:11 AM

I pray, if reciting sutras and doing occasional spells counts as praying. Heck, I even have tarot cards and an I Ching book, and occasionally consult them! I just don't pretend they are anything but traditional mental (ha! a funny!) reflectors that stimulate a particular sort of lateral thinking and creativity.

Please, please note that I understand it has not the slightest effect upon others in any way (otherise I'd have voodoo dolls of Bush and Rice, like in some episode of "Hammer House of Horrors"), save through my own real-world actions and interactions.

So, do I still get to be an atheist? What level? Is there a secret decoder ring?

Posted by: Ray S. | April 16, 2008 9:21 AM

Is that Jesus i see in that guys bald spot? Or maybe an angel with a halo? I know it can't be a turban, can it?

Posted by: Ted D | April 16, 2008 9:25 AM

Is there a secret decoder ring?

No, but there is a lightsaber. If you don't know that, you don't qualify.

Posted by: dr.filbert | April 16, 2008 9:42 AM

dear geezus:

Gimme a head with hair, long beautiful hair
Shining, gleaming, steaming, flaxen, waxen
Give me down to there, hair!
Shoulder length, longer (hair!)
Here baby, there mama, Everywhere daddy daddy

CHORUS:
Hair! (hair, hair, hair, hair, hair, hair)
Flow it, Show it;
Long as God can grow it, My Hair!

Posted by: Jason Failes | April 16, 2008 9:51 AM

"So, do I still get to be an atheist? What level? Is there a secret decoder ring?"

Level 10.

You can use the symbols of woo purely symbolically/psychologically, and can actually maintain some pleasurable effect without having to trick yourself into thinking there's something more to them than there is.

In short, you have reached the much-coveted Richard-Dawkins-singing-Christmas-carols level of atheism.

The good news is that there is a secret decoder ring.

The bad news is, like all atheists (and anyone else in the reality-based community), you have to build it yourself.

Posted by: Steve_C | April 16, 2008 9:59 AM

Wow. I love it.

Posted by: Dennis | April 16, 2008 10:18 AM

While working as a supervisor for a security firm I caught a guard sleeping at his desk. I cleared my throat to get his attention and without missing a beat he opened his eyes and said "amen". I let him off, best use of prayer ever.

Posted by: Shygetz | April 16, 2008 10:30 AM

"Is there a secret decoder ring?"

If I told you about it, it wouldn't be a secret anymore, now would it?

Posted by: Kitty | April 16, 2008 11:09 AM

On the 31st March 2000 a talented, kind, gentle and very popular young friend suffered a brain haemorrhage.
Many people wanted him to survive.

The Reiki masters did whatever they do to heal him from their conference 200 miles away.

The Mormons posted his name at the local temple.

The local Catholics prayed for him at mass.

At least 3 local protestant churches mentioned him in despatches.

Pagans burnt candles and chanted. Tarot cards were consulted.

So much prayer!

He died.

They then said he HAD to die young as he was TOO GOOD for this earth - all of them!

Each of them claimed him as their own.

Those of us who were his friends and knew him well meet on the anniversary of his death, get pissed and laugh a lot about our time together.

We also raise a glass to Robert de Niro - the only thing he ever worshipped - 'You lookin' at me?'

Posted by: Cuttlefish, OM | April 16, 2008 11:11 AM

Let's fold our hands and bow our heads
And mumble something low,
Or pray to tens of millions on
Some television show.
Let's take a silent moment, and
Have others do the same,
So those remaining talking can
Be sure to feel their shame.
Let's know that we are better, cos
We spent our time in prayer,
Than atheists and heathens who
Are working over there.

Let's say a prayer for Washington,
For Darfur; for Tibet;
Let's say a prayer for hunger, and
To fix the nation's debt.
Let's say a prayer for miners, trapped
In tunnels underground;
Let's say a prayer for missing kids
In hopes that they are found.
Let's say a prayer for polar ice
And students gone berserk;
Let's say a prayer for everything--
It sure beats doing work.

http://digitalcuttlefish.blogspot.com/2008/04/join-me-in-moment-of-silent-prayer-or.html

Posted by: Peter Ashby | April 16, 2008 11:24 AM

Confused, thankyou as a DevBio I love it to bits. Worthy of Gary Larson himself that is.

Posted by: Nemo | April 16, 2008 12:29 PM

Sometimes there's nothing people can do, and they want so badly to help... so, they pray. I can't fault them for that. It's ineffective, but well-meant.

It's only a problem if they think of prayer first, and stop there, when they actually could have done something real to help instead.

Posted by: Pocket Nerd | April 16, 2008 12:35 PM

@ #15: See, and you liberalist humanist secularist progressivist Darwinist atheistists still claim prayer doesn't work!

Posted by: Jason Failes | April 16, 2008 12:45 PM

Neat. Thank you, Brownian, OM.

I was confused at first, kept getting this kind of result:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honorable_Order_of_Molly_Pitcher

...but then I searched within ScienceBlogs and, well, that makes much more sense, as my contribution to U.S. Field Artillery is minimal at best.

But honestly, I just vent what's on my mind.

Nominate Cuttlefish: A lot of work must go into busting those rhymes.

Posted by: Chief | April 16, 2008 1:15 PM

Thank you for this! I saw this as the avatar on somebody's post - maybe in the comments at richarddawkins.net - and immediately went looking for it. Perfect. I am appropriating it for my own use now.

Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | April 16, 2008 1:22 PM

Anyone else see a piet[à] in that guy's bald spot?

No, a hammerhead shark... :-°

Posted by: MikeM | April 16, 2008 1:27 PM

Wow, Stubl... People wear colored wristbands mostly because they've donated money to cancer research.

You think people should stop doing that?

Say that to Lance Armstrong in person, and I bet he'd introduce you personally to his fist.

Posted by: Louise Van Court | April 16, 2008 1:53 PM

To pray for someone is a way of expressing your love and concern. Sometimes others can pray for you better than you can for yourself when you are going through a hard time. I am deeply grateful to those who have prayed me through some of life's trials in the past, nothing humorous about it. Since I have started reading this post I have been stopped twice (interestingly) with calls/requests from the prayer chain at my church, I will pray and call the request on to the next one on the list who prays and calls etc. We pray not only for healing if it is about an illness or surgery but also for strength and courage to be provided to those who need it most. We pray that they might be comforted and know a sense of peace in the midst of turmoil. We pray for the physicians and nurses who might be caring for the person. We pray for the family of the one in need. The prayer takes only a minute or two and can be done silently at work or at home.
Many times we will get a praise report days or weeks later that things did go well or that the person was comforted and felt unafraid. No not all are healed, but does that mean the prayer was ineffective or did nothing?
Sometimes because of distance or not knowing the ones in need prayer is all you can do. Other times you can demonstrate your love and caring by sitting with someone in a waiting room, providing childcare or meals to a family, or crying with them as they grieve.

Posted by: stubl | April 16, 2008 2:22 PM

Say that to Lance Armstrong in person, and I bet he'd introduce you personally to his fist.

Why? Is he incapable of considered argument, too?

Actually, I was a tad too generous towards Fair Trade, wrist-bands, and recycling plastic bags above. At least with prayer, you're only fooling yourself that you care. All this conspicuous compassion is much more insidious - trying to fool others that you care.

Posted by: MyaR | April 16, 2008 2:33 PM

Prayer is definitely one syllable. Two syllables would make it it a person who prays, which would be weird and nonstandard.

Posted by: noncarborundum | April 16, 2008 2:48 PM

BTW, Cuttlefish, do you really pronounce "prayer" as a single syllable? I find that outright difficult... ~:-|

This is the standard U.S. pronunciation. See Encarta, for example.

Posted by: Stubl | April 16, 2008 2:54 PM

Are you really proposing a false dilemma, or do you just enjoy being a misanthrope on the Internet?

I'm suggesting that the joke about prayer extends to many other pointless activities. Perhaps I've come to the wrong place? I thought this was where you go to laugh at religious people.

Posted by: craig | April 16, 2008 3:03 PM

"Praying does nothing."

Not true. It does many things. It burns a small number of calories, it reinforces delusional thought, it wastes time and annoys passers-by...

Posted by: stogoe | April 16, 2008 3:19 PM

Are you really proposing a false dilemma, or do you just enjoy being a misanthrope on the Internet?

Posted by: Flamethorn | April 16, 2008 3:24 PM

Prayer as one syllable is pronounced "prare", and rhymes with square, except the a is a little bit longer.

Posted by: MikeM | April 16, 2008 3:27 PM

I'm suggesting that the joke about prayer extends to many other pointless activities. Perhaps I've come to the wrong place? I thought this was where you go to laugh at religious people.

I'll apolgize if I'm wrong (that happens with me), but I checked out your website, and it looks like a global-warming skeptics website. Which is fine. To each his own.

But I question your veracity when you say "I'm suggesting that the joke about prayer extends to many other pointless activities." From your comments, and maybe this is just your sense of humor, it doesn't seem like that was your point.

I mean, the wristbands... Do you know what those mean? People buy those as cancer fundraisers. As far as I know, people don't buy those to cure cancer; they buy them as a way of making a donation. The wristbands themselves have no affect on human health, but people have benefitted from the money raised through the sale of those wristbands.

Maybe Lance wouldn't punch you, but I think if you said it to him the way you did, in person, you'd be pretty lucky if he only gave you a cold shoulder. It looks to me as though you're deriding a perfectly good way to raise money for a worthy cause, which does rub me the wrong way.

No more one-liners from me. Your comment demonstrates clearly that you don't understand the point of those wristbands. At all.

If you had said "Chi Channels" or "Pyramids" or "Crystals" or "Layers of Light", that'd be different. Honestly, though, a global-warming skeptics website doesn't help.

So there you go. Do you understand where I'm coming from?

No more SIWOTI rants from me today. This is probably my last comment on the topic.

Posted by: Sastra | April 16, 2008 3:34 PM

Louise Van Court #37 wrote:

To pray for someone is a way of expressing your love and concern.

If this is what prayer really is -- another way of saying "I hope you get better," another way calming oneself enough to have the strength to prepare for and accept whatever happens -- then nobody, here or elsewhere, would quarrel with its value.

But that's not what you're really saying, is it? No. Though I could be wrong, I think you're also claiming that prayer will effect the outcome magically. God will answer the prayer and change the situation in ways that go beyond the psychological benefits. Prayer is not just seen as a sort of ritualized poetry or metaphor for caring, concern, and inner strength; you're tapping into a Force which acts, a Power which transforms transcendently.

It is very common for religious, spiritual, and pseudoscientific advocates to try to blur distinctions between their supernatural faith claims and something which sounds very similar, but is natural and reasonable. The magical belief gains credibility by riding along on the back of the natural belief. If one is true, then isn't the other just as likely, a different form of the same thing? Bait and switch.

One recent example is in the book The Secret. The author sometimes talks about the Power of Positive Thinking as the ability of our Minds to manifest reality and attract results through the direct power of Conscious Intention. Think of a bicycle, and presto! the universe will make sure you get one. The universe cares - isn't it great?

Other times, the author seems to suggest that the Power of Positive Thinking is really the same as "when you feel good about yourself, others see this confidence and react to you in a positive way." Or "when you make your mind up, focus, and work hard for something, you're more likely to get it." Think about a bicycle, get a paper route, save your money, and wow! a bicycle. Isn't the universe great?

Please don't kid yourself that nobody sees this trick. And don't kid yourself that it isn't a trick.

Posted by: Holbach | April 16, 2008 3:35 PM

Louise Van Court @ 37
Just to pick one incredible description of your prayers, you mentioned that you pray for the physicians and nurses caring for the person. Why in the name of reason and sanity would you have the need of physicians and nurses to heal the person when you are sure that your prayers alone will suffice? Are you willing to remove all medical equipment, drugs, doctors and nurses, and just pray over the sick and terminaly ill and know that they will be cured? Are you serious or just delirious with the insane and ludicrous and absolutely useless delirium of mumbo-jumbo? You are not even being disingenuous with such claptrap as this and expect most of us on this site to bow and accept this insanity! Direct your prayers to the morons at the Deranged Institute and the equally insane morons of that dreck movie,Expelled. It will do neither any good whatever, no mater how hard you supplicate your imaginary and fictitous god.

Posted by: karen | April 16, 2008 4:50 PM

MikeM #53, here in Ontario those wristbands are being sold not just to raise funds for cancer research, but for just about every cause you can imagine, just like lapel ribbons. I've seen bins of them for causes ranging from cancer research through public elementary school fund-raising to Lebanese solidarity, as well as ones simply expressing various sentiments such as "peace" or "happiness", etc.

Posted by: Alex | April 16, 2008 5:00 PM

That is perhaps the least clever or funny thing I've seen all day.

Posted by: MikeM | April 16, 2008 5:33 PM

Karen,

Fair enough. But are they ever sold to cure cancer, make peace, or improve education? If they were, then I'd say stubl has a point.

If they're used to raise money for those causes, great. If you buy one for $100 to cure your own cancer, though, that's woo-woo, 100%.

Might as well pray instead. At least that'd be free.

Posted by: Sastra | April 16, 2008 6:14 PM

Louise Van Court #64 wrote:

... yes, I do believe God is listening and responding.

Just out of curiosity, what would it look like if God didn't listen and respond?

Posted by: Holbach | April 16, 2008 6:52 PM

Louise Van Court" All you simply have to do is prove that your imaginary god exists. If I am behind a door and you are praying to me, all I have to do is show myself and there I am, your solid proof. You may wish and want it to be true because you were indoctrinated when young and take comfort in fairy tales, but this is worse than any fairy tale because it just will not happen. You believed in fairy tales as a child; you are not a child anymore so just mature and get rid of the childish nonsense and grow up for your own good.

Posted by: H.H. | April 16, 2008 7:17 PM

Probably exactly like the world you see with your eyes Sastra.

Posted by: Sioux Laris | April 16, 2008 7:21 PM

"...you have to build it yourself." Very, very nice one, Jason!

Actually, I'd come to the same conclusion some time ago.

Posted by: Graculus | April 16, 2008 8:50 PM

Aye, so why should he want to hit me? Or did you mean it in a God-smiting-the-unfaithful sort of way?

No, more like the sentiment behind Buzz Aldrin punching out Bart Sibrel.

Posted by: Sastra | April 16, 2008 11:37 PM

Faith is making a personal commitment to "spin."

This is fine when it has to do with spinning one's attitude -- being hopeful, positive, persistent, and innovative, when dealing with the facts.

It's not so fine when it involves spinning the facts themselves.

And even less fine, I think, when the two are confused with each other.

Maybe I'm just too hopeful, positive, persistent, and innovative to believe in the Power of Prayer. It takes a certain amount of optimism I think to meet the facts head on, and not end up spinning.

Posted by: karen | April 17, 2008 11:47 AM

"Karen,

Fair enough. But are they ever sold to cure cancer, make peace, or improve education? If they were, then I'd say stubl has a point.

If they're used to raise money for those causes, great. If you buy one for $100 to cure your own cancer, though, that's woo-woo, 100%.

Might as well pray instead. At least that'd be free."

I agree with all you've said; I was simply pointing out (in retrospect, probably unnecessarily ;) ) that those rubber bracelets have become almost as ubiquitous as lapel ribbons.

Posted by: red rabbit | April 17, 2008 10:39 PM

Catholics where I come from post an ad in the newspaper for three weeks and THEN pray to get a miracle.

I believed it when I was eight. But it didn't work. Shocking.

I'm a little disappointed actually, because if it had worked I might have all this warm fuzzy faith instead of... you know... reality.