…and this is a 
The appropriate responses to Expelled
Category: Creationism
Posted on: April 22, 2008 8:01 AM, by PZ Myers
I think I've said just about everything I can about that contemptible, dishonest propaganda movie starring Ben Stein, so I've been fairly quiet about it lately. It will run its short course in the theaters, and the main result will be that we'll get a few more creationists who, in addition to being grossly ignorant, will be grossly disinformed about science. Thanks to the Expelled gang, creationist arguments will be a little bit stupider.
So here are what I think are the best of the responses I've seen so far.
Sahotra Sarkar succinctly guts the main points of the movie. (It's also partly in response to the very worst defense of the movie, by David Klinghoffer, who somehow ties it to the glory of circumcision — cringe before the stupid.)
Richard Dawkins writes a letter to a disinformed viewer who suddenly thinks biologists and atheists are plotting another Holocaust. That's another outcome of this movie: It's going to inflame more than a few crazy people.
Arthur Caplan excoriates the movie: it isn't just bad, it's immoral. Stein is practicing a form of Holocaust denial.
Use them in future arguments with creationists; you'll need to.
As for all those people who are arguing from box office grosses that the movie is a success or a failure, grow up. We have a large population of miseducated evangelical lackwits in this country who will fork over money for exactly this kind of crap, so we knew ahead of time that the producers were going to get some small pots of cash out of this; worrying over exactly how much they got or will get is a pointless exercise. All it tells us is roughly how many people were motivated enough to see a bad movie because it caters to their prejudices. The issue at hand is dealing with the substance of the movie's claims and the reactions of the viewers. If you're counting dollar signs and using that to opine over the worth of the movie (in either direction), you're being part of the problem.
It's the same problem that we see in press reports on politics right now. Everything is focused on the horse race — how many votes do they have so far, how much money have they raised? — and next to nothing on what the people actually say. Stop it!
Comments
We all know what this crap movie is all about and there is no need to pique our interest by seeing it anyway as it will be a waste of time and money. I'll be content to deride it as much as I can in the most vile manner that I can to any religious moron who cares not to listen. My time and brain cells will be more served and honored to look at the pictures that the Cassini spacecraft is taking of Saturn and its moons. Now there is science, palpable and enthralling! That crap Expelled is visual and stultifying bullshit, and life is too short and fleeting to waste it on mass insanity.
Posted by: Holbach | April 22, 2008 8:27 AM
Speaking of responses to Expelled, I just checked out the "Conservapedia" website to see if they have anything about it. On their main page, in the "in the News" section, they have this:
"A Conservapedian just returned from seeing 'Expelled' and said: 'The movie was terrific. Not only about the evolution thing, but about our freedom, and where that kind of (non)thinking can lead.' Locate a theater near you by state or zip code here.
If you watched the documentary, add your comments here."
And that's on their MAIN PAGE!
That 'evolution thing', yeah, it's so totally (non)thinking.
Sigh.
Posted by: Nate | April 22, 2008 8:28 AM
Intelligent design confuses people like science without comforting them like religion.
Expelled's "religious freedom" versus DI's sure-it's-science stance highlight ID's internal faultlines.
So, in the end, I'm more concerned with what they come up with next, after ID.
Posted by: Jason Failes | April 22, 2008 8:28 AM
here is my favorite response to expelled
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ThQQuHtzHM
Posted by: Randy | April 22, 2008 8:34 AM
The movie bombed by anyone's standard. I'd be surprised if it does even $5 million total. And unlike other documentary pics, (Fahrenheit 9/11, March of the Penguins, etc.), it's international appeal is going to be very limited. PZ thanks for the Arthur Caplan link....definetely worth the read.
Here's a question though: Would an, informative, professionally made, and scientifically accurate flick about natural selection have done any better in the US? What kind of audience is there for science movies, either pro-science, or anti-science like Stein's movie. (Science fiction is another matter....)
Posted by: jetmags73 | April 22, 2008 8:35 AM
You're right. Although the screening I attended was sparsely populated (between two or three dozen), the audience was soaking up mental poison. As I left I heard one couple conversing: "Did you like it?" "Oh, yes. It gave me a lot to think about." And a pair of college-age girls just behind me slurped on their sodas and oohed and ahhed through the whole thing, getting enlightened.
I doubt it would have helped if I had turned to them and warned them: "You're being lied to, you know." I fear the answer would have been: "Oh, yeah. Our biology professors are all in on it!"
Posted by: Zeno | April 22, 2008 8:36 AM
Big Science is our only defense against Big Bullshit.
Posted by: Dr Benway | April 22, 2008 8:38 AM
I can't decide if I should see it. On one hand, I don't want to waste an hour and a half of my life, and I sure don't want anyone I know to see me in there. On the other hand, I don't want to be subject to the claim "but you don't really know what's in it if you haven't seen it, you're just taking other people's words for it". Ugh.
Posted by: Carlie | April 22, 2008 8:40 AM
regarding success and expelled:
PZ you are correct, box office receipts are not the measure of "success" for this film. As with any propaganda, it isn't about profit it is about appearance. they got the film in 1000+ screens. It will be bought by every evangelical bible church in the US, it will be used to promote every anti-science agenda imaginable (from evolution, to global warming, to alternative medicines and anti-vaccine campaigns.) In this regard, unfortunately, expelled was successful in its first wave attack. So we do need to step it up. Folks like you and dawkins need to keep being 'dicks'--just watched the beware the believers clip--and religious scientists also need to speak up LOADLY and tell the world this is crap.
Posted by: randy | April 22, 2008 8:40 AM
The point should be made that the box office take IS important in determining whether or not XVIVO etc should sue.
I mean, if they don't make any money, it's not going to be worth the cries of persecution from the xians.
Posted by: wazza | April 22, 2008 8:41 AM
I followed Randy's link (#4) to the "Stork Theory" video and found this gem in the comments:
Perhaps we can't blame this example of arrant stupidity on Expelled, but these birds of a feather are flocking together. And they're dodos rather than storks.
Posted by: Zeno | April 22, 2008 8:43 AM
jetmags73:
March of the Penguins did rather well at the cinema, if I recall correctly. In the UK, you just have to look at the success of programs like the BBC's Planet Earth series: there's plenty of interest in science, just not enough time devoted to it.
Posted by: Armchair Dissident | April 22, 2008 8:45 AM
Excuse me, but movies are successful based on their sales. They cost money to make. You only get 55% of the gross. Your fist weekend is your best.
They were very clear, for this movie to be successful they needed $12-$15 million in box-office gross. So they could cover their costs. $3 million represents about 1/4th to 1/5th what the needed. Which means it was a flop and it produces an associative stench to all the participants who will start finding open doors now closed.
$3 million means they're probably losing a TON OF FUCKING MONEY on this movie because science bloggers, such as yourself, that put the early buzz out on a lying creationist movie can certainly put a damper on sales. $3 Million should tell us that attacking trash-crap like Expelled can be done and that grass-roots criticism of lies and propaganda can be successful.
They got $3 million. Even with the Church goers and True Believers. Even through their aggressive preview showings and advertising campaign. They couldn't generate the revenues they needed, even from the huge swath of "True Christian Believers" out there. That's a damn good talking point. And it will have repercussions. For example, if Michael Moore's Roger & Me would have done this badly, we wouldn't have seen Bowling for Columbine made. But it was moderately successful, so he got a second chance. These clowns won't get a second chance unless they find a sugar-daddy to bank-roll them, despite their massive first failure, and that'll be hard to do.
Additionally, $3 Million means the movie may have even bankrupted the studio, so they won't be able to produce follow-up movies in any case. Once again, the low-gross makes a solid talking point. Only the fringe are interested in your Creationism lies. You guys are squeaky wheels that don't necessarily represent the larger constituency of Christians in America. $3 million is a repudiation of your delusional self-importance.
The low-gross is, in itself, easier to talk about with people who cannot really grasp the very complex issues with Evolution. It also makes a good zinger, which is a good thing, as Creationists use the "zinger" approach to debate and discussion. Whereas, to rebut the "zingers" you need to take a lot of time. Expelled's failure puts a "zinger" on the Evolutionist side. Something that is necessary as the average American just doesn't get the issues in evolution because his/her biology eduction is rudimentary and fundamentally flawed.
So, that you apparently can't see what this means... What ever. You're sounding like "Joe Framing" with this post.
Posted by: Moses | April 22, 2008 8:50 AM
One measure of the movie's message-spin success will be to see if future discussions about evolution/ID quickly lapse into arguments about the holocaust. If so, Ben Stein and Co. will have already won.
It's almost getting to the point where discussion threads will start three seconds after the original article gets posted, and instead of 'First!' it will be 'Godwin!'
(And the bitter irony will be that 'Godwin' will take on a double meaning, one that we will find very depressing.)
Posted by: Duncan | April 22, 2008 8:54 AM
Carlie:
Whatever you do, do NOT pay to see this pic. You're not relying on anyone else's words; the jerk producers and Stein have said enough idiocy publicly. If you feel the need though, just watch the relevent clips on Youtube, then go take a shower. A long one.
Besides, based on the box office traffic, this thing will likely be out of theatres by this weekend or the next. Then in 3 months or less on DVD, (NO do not order it from Netflix either). I would just wait for the TV version to air. And then, on that glorious day....you should probably read something instead.
Posted by: jetmags73 | April 22, 2008 8:55 AM
Arthur Caplan excellent article only has 3-star rating. If you visit, nudge up the rating.
Posted by: Dean Booth | April 22, 2008 8:55 AM
Sarkar's review was great,some of the comments to it were deeply disturbing however,to say the least.
I have to give my admiration to Richard Dawkins to write to this deluded jewish guy ,put up with his ignorance and delusions and actually try to make an effort to explain things to him,I dont think I would have had the patience or faith(pun intended) to even try.
Scary,very scary,if this is the effect that piece of crap is having on the gullible.
I wonder when I will see it in cinemas in Australia,probably not long....
Posted by: clinteas | April 22, 2008 8:55 AM
I generally liked the Planet Earth series, but it seemed to me that whoever wrote the script had too great a tendency to use mystical language and to anthropomorphize the animals under discussion. Beyond this, though it wasn't anti-evolution by any stretch, they really didn't take the time to discuss the process of adaptation at all, which kinda puts evolution on par with the "god poofed it that way" explanation. Perhaps there were just time constraints that precluded it. Regardless, I'll take a good Attenborough documentary over it any day of the week.
As to the whole Expelled thing, you're right to argue that the movie should be judged harshly by its content(and those who liked it) and not by its gross, but what's so wrong with some of us taking pleasure in the knowledge that those who produced it are likely to eat a loss? Knowing that the free market has declared making the movie to be as idiotic as the irrational, untrue arguments it peddles renews my confidence in Humanity :)
Posted by: Julian | April 22, 2008 8:58 AM
Oh, no worries, I have no intention of paying to see it. It's a matter of either buying a different ticket (which makes me feel just slightly icky) or waiting for a pirated copy on the internet (slightly less icky), but either way the issue is the hour and a half of my life that I'd never get back. :) I know most of it already, but there's still that little nagging "but you haven't seen it" that gets me.
Posted by: Carlie | April 22, 2008 8:58 AM
I've been keeping an eye on the Expelled web site. It seems to me that they gave up almost two weeks ago. The most recent blog entry (not comment) was April 11. Their news section announces that "EXPELLED to Open in One Thousand US Theaters By April 18th!"
A competent PR firm would be churning the whole thing-especially on this, the most important week of the film's life. If you are out to create buzz, it takes some work people. What were they thinking?
Posted by: Dale Austin | April 22, 2008 8:59 AM
Holbach (#1) wrote:
"My time and brain cells will be more served and honored to look at the pictures that the Cassini spacecraft is taking of Saturn and its moons. Now there is science, palpable and enthralling!"
Perhaps the best rebuttal of all would be a movie featuring a cross-section of successful scientists at work, describing their methods, findings, and interactions with peers.
We could call it "Excelled: Intelligence Required"
Posted by: Jason Failes | April 22, 2008 8:59 AM
Not really. That was already rather common pre-BS.
Posted by: MartinM | April 22, 2008 9:00 AM
Er, no. Major movie investors believe in money a hell of a lot more than Creationism. "Counting dollar signs" gives us a good indication if other studios will be hopping on this particular budding bandwagon or not. The fact that the movie is not only failing to bring huge returns but is currently tanking suggests that the next Creationist propaganda film is going to have a much harder time finding financial backing for a high-budget film. And that, my friend, is part of the solution.
Posted by: Shygetz | April 22, 2008 9:01 AM
I have to agree that box office is important in several ways. Perhaps people like PZ won't use it as a measurement, but others certainly will. Box office numbers portend how much juice is left in the orange. "Sicko" got $34 million in gross. That covers investment and more, I'm sure. A movie like "Expelled" had to cost multiple millions to produce, especially with the carpet bombing PR and ads. Yet pulling in only $3 million in its first weekend from 1,000+ screens is not going to cut it in the movie business. I think you can also extrapolate from that $3 million that evangelicals aren't swarming in the huge numbers they want us to think they are. It also helps determine how long the movie will be tolerated in theaters. Theater owners will unload a low-grossing film faster than any bolts Jove could hurl. And the lower numbers contribute to the "nyah, nyah, nyah" factor, which is always helpful in Web debates.
Posted by: Tim | April 22, 2008 9:03 AM
Carlie: Step away from the Creationism. Step away from the Creationism!
Posted by: jetmags73 | April 22, 2008 9:03 AM
To Moses, Shygetz et al:
I see you point, that the success, or lack of, of the film influences how useful it will be as a debating point, but I think PZ's point was that said success has feth all to do with the veracity of the film's contents (not that you are arguing that, but others may).
Carlie: Don't bother wasting your time. You don't need to drink from a sewer outflow to know that it won't taste very nice.
Posted by: Iain M | April 22, 2008 9:08 AM
Moses: "These clowns won't get a second chance unless they find a sugar-daddy to bank-roll them, despite their massive first failure, and that'll be hard to do."
Much as I would like to agree with you, creationists/RWAs don't operate by the same rules as the reality-based community. Money is not the issue. Poor sales, bad reviews, negative press, lawsuits, mass derision by the science community - not the issue. Mindshare among the gullible, THAT'S the issue, and always will be. Religion and Authority (one and the same, actually) depend on mindshare and mass subservience. Creationism is under fire, and a multi-pronged campaign is underway to shore things up. Expelled is only one salvo in the greater war.
Do you really think the people who fund the Discovery Institute, and by extension, the Religious Right, care one shit about Ben Stein or his career? Do they care about Ted Haggard, now that he is damaged goods? More projects like this will come along, you can depend on that. Who among us would have thought the frigging Creation Museum would ever make it off the back of the envelope and into a multi-million-dollar attraction? And when attendance drops there, it will be discarded and a newer, bigger shrine to ignorance will be built.
To the creationist mindset, there is no 'lose'. Everything is either a success, or one more test of faith in God's mysterious ways.
(And don't take this post personally - I loved how you smacked down Planet Killer in a previous thread, but in this case I think you're missing a bigger picture.)
Posted by: Duncan | April 22, 2008 9:16 AM
Yeah, I'm pretty much done with the subject, as well. None of the lemmings will be swayed by any kind of reasoned debate on the matter, because they don't want to listen to reason. All they ever wanted was to be part of the movie's mutual masturbation, and to be told their paranoia is justified and not a sign of impending insanity. Hell, I no longer feel compelled to see the movie to justify my hating it. Because of the expansive coverage, I know all of its plot points:
Ben Stein is really, really popular with college students -- so much so they hold keggers in his honor... These well-lighted people were fired... These badly-lighted, Darwinist poop-holes hate God... Darwin is responsible for Hitler, Stalin, Mao, abortion, eugenics, and the demise of Gatorade Gum... Ben Stein wanders lost around Seattle like some half-wit who's never heard of GPS or a cell phone or a map or an Exxon station... Ben Stein pretends to cry at a concentration camp and pesters a tour guide whose English isn't good enough to really understand his questions... Ben Stein stares down Darwin's statue and thinks he wins... Roll credits.
All I really care about now is dealing with the aftermath, and these newly-rabble-roused creationists who want our public schools to teach their fairy tales in science class. I'm lookin' at you, Florida, Missouri, Louisiana and Oklahoma.
Posted by: UprightAlice | April 22, 2008 9:17 AM
Julian- did you watch Planet Earth in the US or the UK? While the UK version was narrated by David Attenborough in his usual, excellent way, the US version was narrated by Sigourney Weaver from a slightly modified script. i.e. mention of evolution was removed, or expelled, if you will.
Posted by: Ross | April 22, 2008 9:20 AM
On Success:
if the company truly believed they had a market, that the world would flock to see "Expelled", that they would make good money on tapping into this market, the movie was a flop. If the movie truly was simply as expensive propaganda piece... the jury is out on success, but it teeters that direction.
yes, premise media may not make another movie, but there is another gullible production company around the corner, just as there is always another gullible Board of Education (did you all really think that Dover would end school board idiocy?) So there will always be flashier movies and propaganda being produced.
So again my call is to first, expose expelled to everyone...don't let them get the last word, second, get pro-science pieces out there.
Posted by: Randy | April 22, 2008 9:25 AM
The IDiots are crap-flooding the comments over at imdb.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1091617/usercomments?start=30
I'm beginning to think our brand of conciousness is an evolutionary dead-end....
Posted by: 5keptical | April 22, 2008 9:29 AM
Last night while waiting for my take-out, I overhead a prof from a local U discussing her undergrad class on evolution. Always the eavesdropper and lacking in social graces, I butted in to ask her impression of the Expelled! kerfuffle. She told me that she sent her students to the movie as an assignment to bring the issues of ID and academic freedom back to the classroom. So, that'll account for another 25 paying moviegoers.
Posted by: Abel Pharmboy | April 22, 2008 9:37 AM
Aaargh, you're doing it again!
The box office DOES NOT MATTER. We do not have control over who goes to the movie and who doesn't, so it's pointless to wring our hands over it. Further, even the people who are arguing over the money don't seem to be saying anything.
If it made a paltry $3 million over the first weekend, or an awe-inspiring $100 million, would it make any difference to how you rebut it? Seriously, would anyone be impressed if someone said, "Flock of Dodos didn't make very much money, therefore evolution sucks"? Why should we consider the flip side of that argument to be valid?
Posted by: PZ Myers | April 22, 2008 9:37 AM
Expelled may last longer in theaters, and the studio may produce more films even if it is a financial disaster.
Philip Anschutz did a remarkably similar campaign with "One Night With the King" back in 2006. See http://www.riskybusinessblog.com/2006/10/films_of_faith_.html, for example. Note the comment:
Philip Anschutz owns Regal Entertainment Group, "the largest and most geographically diverse theatre circuit in the United States, consisting of 6,388 screens in 527 theatres in 39 states and the District of Columbia."
If the Expelled crew is getting funding from Anschutz, they will be able to crank out more of this trash. And with his distribution capabilities, they may even make a profit on it.
Posted by: MikeD | April 22, 2008 9:45 AM
http://boremetotears.blogspot.com/2008/04/match-my-donation.html
OK guys, put your money where your mouth is. This nice lady is matching donations to the NCSE up to $500. Come on, so far I'm the only one who has taken her up on it. Do you want me to make you all look bad?
Posted by: James F | April 22, 2008 9:46 AM
PZed Myers you vile and ignorant bastard, how dare you come out with such vacuous stupidity? There is no force on this or any other planet that could make creationists arguments even more stupid than they already are. "Expelled" will only cause an already frothing bunch of lunatics to masturbate themselves to most frequent stupidity, the nadir of stupid already having been reached long ago. Cease your vile calumny forthwith, if not fifthwith.*
Harrumph
Louis
* DISCLAIMER: This is tongue in cheek. I have ceased all sarcasm in disclaimers since FTK quote mined me and left off my customary comedy disclaimer only to tag it back on with the emphasis changed to fit her prejudices. For the record: I consider Prof Myers to be neither vile nor ignorant, and I have no doubts about the legitimacy of his birth. Nor do I consider him a source of stupidity or calumny. In fact I agree with him on this issue except for the fact that creationists can get stupider, it just isn't possible. I cite Kent Hovind as evidence. Basically that is the rhetorical equovalent of a nuclear bomb! ;-)
Posted by: Louis | April 22, 2008 9:49 AM
Yes, PZ, there would be a huge difference between a $3 mil gross and $100 mil. If it were $100 mil, it would be much more significant because you would clearly be battling a much larger group of people. The fact it only makes $3 mil indicates that the mainstream is not buying this nonsense, and it can be blown off as coming from the lunatic fringe. It's a lot easier to marginalize the lunatics than the mainstream.
Posted by: Pablo | April 22, 2008 9:51 AM
I have an answer for those who want to see some of the movie, but not pay a dime to the dopey producers, and also waste as little of their life as possible. Buy a ticket for a more worthy movie, that starts 20 minutes or so after this pile of crap, crash into the Expelled dump heap, and when its time for your good movie to start, leave in disgust from the shit-hole, ranting and gagging all the way out, saying stuff like you want your money back. If the movie administration confronts you, just say that you accidently walked into the wrong theater. See your good movie. Then go take a long shower.
Posted by: chuckgoecke | April 22, 2008 9:54 AM
UprightAlice wrote:
That's what I thought a couple weeks ago. Since then I've pretty much just been reviewing Battlestar Galactica on my blog, and my readership dropped.
But I got pulled back in because I keep seeing Ben Stein blamed for the film and he's just a dumb actor reading lines. If we want to heap scorn on someone for this propaganda piece, the wouldn't the screenwriter, Kevin 11, have less of an excuse?
They don't even seem to know what reason is.
Same here.
Maybe PZ and Dawkins should make a film?
Posted by: Norman Doering | April 22, 2008 10:00 AM
Success can indeed be measured in many ways, but financial success is important. If this film is very profitable, it will encourage them to make more like it. If it results in a net loss, it will discourage them from making others.
Posted by: MH | April 22, 2008 10:01 AM
I've been doing some blogging about the ghastly box-office results of this movie. The funniest item is about a Discovery Institute blog article that really raved about how well the movie was doing. They said: "Expelled had a huge opening weekend for a documentary film. ... Based just on its opening weekend alone, Expelled is now #26 on the all-time box office list of documentaries. Among those documentaries, only Fahrenheit 9/11 and Tupac The Resurection had better opening weekends."
But as I pointed out: "If you take a careful look at the website that lists the box-office performance of documentaries: top 100 documentaries, you will notice an interesting fact. While Expelled opened at 1,052 theaters, most of the others opened at only a handful of theaters. Fahrenheit 9/11, the top-ranked documentary, opened at 868 theaters (and had a bigger opening weekend than Expelled). After that, the largest number was for Tupac: Resurrection, which opened at 801 theaters (which also did better than Expelled). The next highest was 561 theaters for Imagine: John Lennon. After that there are only a few with theaters numbering in the 200s and 300s.
Over half the films on that list opened at less than 10 theaters -- including 16 that are ranked higher than Expelled."
Posted by: PatrickHenry | April 22, 2008 10:08 AM
The film is not a research paper, it is an advertisement for Creationism, and as such, it's poor box office tells us that the audience for such tripe is not a broad and/or deeply interested as the filmakers thought. This is nothing but good news.
We have as much control over who goes to the movie as we have control over who believes in evolution. We had less control over the Dover verdict. And yet there was liberal hand-wringing over both of those issues. While the box office matters not a whit as to the truth content of the film, it matters greatly as to the impact of the film. I already KNOW the movie is false, and so do you. If someone comes to me and says the film is true, I know the facts to rebut him/her. The box office tells me that my neighbor also knows its false, or at least knows it isn't something that would interest him/her. That indicates that I won't be needing to do quite as much rebutting as the Creationists would have hoped.
Posted by: Shygetz | April 22, 2008 10:10 AM
Expelled. It's like porn but with stupid instead of sex.
Posted by: Geoff | April 22, 2008 10:10 AM
Chris Mooney has gone batshit for the box office performance.
http://scienceblogs.com/intersection/2008/04/expelled_a_box_office_success.php
(And yes PZ, I know that grosses don't make a bit of difference as to the film's validity). I just wonder how this opening can be called a success with such demonstrably shitty attendance.
Posted by: jetmags73 | April 22, 2008 10:17 AM
Carlie @19:
Just ask them, "Did you watch The Golden Compass before you started boycotting it?" ZING!
Posted by: James F | April 22, 2008 10:23 AM
Geoff: compared to Expelled, porn films have better plots.
Posted by: wazza | April 22, 2008 10:25 AM
It is only to hope that God's Nazis will share destiny with Hitler's ones, and that the bensteins of this world take the same exit as their idol, Dr. Joseph Goebbels.
With some luck the rest of the GNs would then just be ridiculed into well deserved oblivion.
Am not holding my breath though, for 'Gegen die Dummheit kämpfen die Götter selbst vergebens'!
Posted by: shonny | April 22, 2008 10:26 AM
Umm, could we do something really unorthodox? Like getting a priest who believe in evolution to attend each movie screening and exorcise it?
Posted by: Jan Chan | April 22, 2008 10:32 AM
If we look at the funding of the Discovery Institute, it is easy to see that book sales are not what drives them. Have West's books hit the best-seller lists? And yet they still fund them.
Their backers are willing to lose money in order to preach against scientism and its disastrous effects on American Culture.
It's not a balance sheet issue, it's a Renewal of Society and Culture issue.
Posted by: Mike Haubrich, FCD | April 22, 2008 10:35 AM
PZ, I would like to encourage you to take the lead on this effort. You have a powerful and talented voice on why evolution matters for the daily lives of all humans that care about their health (this applies to just about everyone). I think it would be a great service to the Expelled! viewers that are going to drop in here if you could focus your energies on showing them the light. May I be so bold as to suggest that you bring back some of your elegant posts from times past on the basics of evolution and how evolution is important for human health. You will have the ear of some of these people in the coming days/weeks. I hope that you will do all you can to teach them about the importance of evolution.
Posted by: juniorprof | April 22, 2008 10:37 AM
You mean reoldal, right?
Posted by: wazza | April 22, 2008 10:37 AM
Box Office Mojo has revised its estimates for Sunday's sales down, from $958,000 to $775,000. That's a big decline, and it looks as if it may drop further as the days progress. Eventually, theater operators will drop Expelled in favor of something that might actually fill the seats.
I predict a DVD release within two weeks.
Posted by: wheatdogg | April 22, 2008 10:41 AM
Cross-post:
Glen Davidson
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: Glen Davidson | April 22, 2008 10:46 AM
I think PZ is mostly right on the cashola - it is immaterial to the propoganda content, and really doesn't affect who will see it and how energized they will become. This piece of dreck will last long after it is out of theaters, and so will its effects. There will be a flood of stoopidity lasting at least forty days and nights (it will seem much longer).
Posted by: True Bob | April 22, 2008 10:51 AM
wazza: LOL! How true!
Posted by: Geoff | April 22, 2008 11:03 AM
wheatdogg's #52: "Box Office Mojo has revised its estimates for Sunday's sales down, from $958,000 to $775,000. That's a big decline ..."
We should also consider that this is for 1,052 theaters. It's only $737 per theater. How much is a ticket? Is it $10? That's less than 74 people per theater. How many showings does each theater have for the day? I donno, but it looks like these theaters are nearly empty for each showing.
Posted by: PatrickHenry | April 22, 2008 11:04 AM
I saw Expelled on Saturday afternoon, (Instead of buying a ticket for it I bought one for another movie and went into the showing of Expelled.) There were only ten people (and nine tickets) in the show I saw.
Posted by: DBE | April 22, 2008 11:22 AM
Cross-post:
Glen Davidson
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: Glen Davidson | April 22, 2008 11:22 AM
Forget about the 150 years of empirical evidence spanning many diverse areas of science which supports evolution...
...ID's own logic is seriously flawed
Check it out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO2n3GHGK7c
Posted by: Rowan | April 22, 2008 11:36 AM
In case anyone here is entering the 'Set Ben Straight' competition, I found an interesting Ben Stein quote, although I'm sure it was made sometime prior to his turning-into-a-complete-looney phase.
It seems to me that he is refuting intelligent design with his own words...
"There is no sudden leap into the stratosphere... There is only advancing step by step, slowly and tortuously, up the pyramid towards your goals..." - Ben Stein
http://thinkexist.com/quotation/there_is_no_sudden_leap_into_the_stratosphere/200819.html
Posted by: Rowan | April 22, 2008 11:43 AM
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/forbidden_kingdom/news/1723254/
"Expelled was the only film in the top ten to see Saturday sales drop from Friday so a long life in theaters is not likely."
Combined with the figures from Wheatdog (#52), I'd call it a major disappointment. I bet they got a boost on Friday just from the ads, which made it seem like a summer teen comedy. Word of mouth obviously isn't doing Expelled any favors.
Posted by: Bunk | April 22, 2008 11:43 AM
/Your fist weekend is your best./
Um, only if you're into that sort of thing....
Posted by: Jsn | April 22, 2008 11:58 AM
Kind of disappointing it's not more of a success. I was looking forward to pointing out to Expelled fans that you can look at Expelled as one huge parody of the ID movement; middle-aged establishment types with no scientific backgrounds play acting at being the radicals they never were in their youths by attacking the strawman Big Science. It sounds like except for Evolution verse ID debate fans no one has even heard of the stupid movie. Curse the producers and their inept marketing. They've could have done some real damage to the ID movement but no they have to bone it.
Posted by: Bob L | April 22, 2008 12:04 PM
expelled fits right in with "what the bleep do we know?" and "the secret"
Posted by: Roman Swiatkowski | April 22, 2008 12:09 PM
If I coughed up a bunch of lies and someone paid me three million dollars for it, I'd think of it as a financial success, but I sure wouldn't consider it a personal, moral or even a human success.
Then again, if anyone is to learn anything from this film, it is that there is a precise limit on just how much money can be bilked out of religious zealots at any one time. Three million is nothing but a great goal for a thief.
Posted by: Dan | April 22, 2008 12:12 PM
If we look at the funding of the Discovery Institute, it is easy to see that book sales are not what drives them. Have West's books hit the best-seller lists? And yet they still fund them.
Hell, look at the Moonie Washington Times or anything bankrolled by Scaife. Nothing makes a profit, but Moon and Scaife, and quite a few others on the right, are in an ideological war and they'll spend money to wage it. Expelled *Jazz Hands* and Disco are part of that well-funded right wing assault on everything good and decent.
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | April 22, 2008 12:20 PM
Jason Failes @ 21 Yes, I agree with your "Excelled: Intelligence Required!" It is those very scientists working together that has articulated science to place those spacecrafts such as Cassini, Huygens, and all the other wonders of technology to permit us to delve into the Universe without any need or reference to imaginary crap. And my hero, the great Hubble Space Telescope, science to prove that what we see and cannot see has no need of any human superstition.
Posted by: Holbach | April 22, 2008 12:21 PM
I know, Bob L, the circus atmosphere surrounding the film was intoxicating to those of us who spar with anti-evolutionists. Now it just sort of died with a whimper (oh, I know it'll be lingering for a long time, but it'll be considered more and more disreputable as time passes), and I sort of miss it.
Box office numbers and totals do matter, however, so I'm glad it's no blockbuster, in fact. Maybe it wouldn't even make such a difference to how we fight it, but we'd be spread awfully thin if 25% of America saw it and it was a subject of some show every night for a month (the fact that the Dem. primary lingers, plus news of the polygamist compound and the pope's visit, seem to have kept Expelled from getting some publicity they likely had hoped for). Also, numbers matter to how Xian and Jewish groups deal with it, since they probably would prefer not to say much if it is small (don't publicize the bad if it is relatively unknown), and would feel compelled to denounce the sleaze if Expelled were big.
It is possible that if it became really big that ID would be so disgraced by it that it would never have any credibility among the public at large again. But considering the knowledge levels of our populace, I wouldn't want to take that chance.
Anyway, it's been fun, partly because they're quite an inept bunch who made the movie, and couldn't appeal to anyone whose beliefs and knowledge went beyond their own narrow sectarian views if their lives depended on doing so. We've enjoyed it, Keith and a few other truly pathetic IDiots imagined that Expelled would end "Big Science", and ID has received a black eye from it among anyone with an IQ above, say, 90 (sure, they have a few quite a bit more intelligent, but what they say rarely sounds intelligent instead of merely jargon).
I think it's gotten about as much publicity and viewership (assuming it doesn't pick up again, and I agree that it'll probably drop off rather soon) as it should to show that "no intelligence" is exactly what ID offers to science and the public. The people who channel information are only persuaded that ID is beyond dumb, that it has no ethical standards whatsoever.
The true believers were led to believe that this would finally give them their "rightful place." The latter didn't happen (couldn't happen). Never mind, Keith and other drooling cretins will find something else with which they can proclaim that they will soon triumph. They always do.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: Glen Davidson | April 22, 2008 12:26 PM
I got an e-mail from Michael Korn ("Concerned American-Christian") praising the movie and suggesting theatre locations where I might see it. He's the guy who was threatening biology profs on the grounds that teaching evolution is child abuse.
Posted by: Monado, FCD | April 22, 2008 12:29 PM
Yes, the box office take does make a difference in how you rebut the film. If the take is 100 million, you can say this kind of idiocy is mainstream. If the take is 3 million, you can only claim it's the lunatic fringe.
That makes a difference.
Posted by: Denis Loubet | April 22, 2008 12:33 PM
Arthur Caplan throws in Jack London with robber baron capitalists, implying that he too was a laissez faire-style Social Darwinist and therefore an anti-unionist. That's incorrect. Jack London was pro-union anti-plutocrat as well as a racist and eugenicist. There were many varieties of eugenics, scientific racism, and Social Darwinism.
Posted by: Colugo | April 22, 2008 12:37 PM
Cross post from the blog in which Klinghoffer unloads his morning sputum (Note that Klinghoffer himself refers to the book of Esther and writes, "In the story, a minister in the Persian royal court, Haman, descendant of the Amalekite king Agag, seeks to exterminate the Jews but is executed himself in the end, by hanging."):
Fuck me but the man is a despicable pillar of shit.
Posted by: Brownian, OM | April 22, 2008 12:44 PM
The central contention of Expelled is that the science community is afraid or unwilling to look at ID, with a subtext that exploits a general mis-trust of institutions like universities, courts, and the government in general.
While there is literally a mountain of evidence against ID, all that evidence lives-in and takes the form-of the institutions that have found ID lacking merit. This isn't very compelling for people who distrust meritocracy, and who don't see a fundamental difference between various institutions (except their church of course). I think the only way ID can be effectively addressed is on trusted, well understood ground.
"Win Richard Dawkins' Money"
ID needs to be challenged in a public forum - WWF style. Richard Dawkins and friends could offer to take on all comers. A million dollar prize could be awarded to anyone who can produce a competing theory to the Theory of Evolution, or to anyone who can produce evidence that falsifies the Theory of Evolution.
People understand a throw-down, and they trust results where money is at stake. Especially when it's televised (though I'm not sure how one would make the whole affair anything but tedious).
How hard can it be to find a wealthy individual who's willing to put up the prize?
...judges would be an entirely different problem.
Posted by: Jams | April 22, 2008 12:53 PM