…and this is a 
Birth pangs of a police state
Category: Politics
Posted on: May 21, 2008 9:06 AM, by PZ Myers
Minneapolis is hosting the Republican National Convention this summer, and that means we're seeing an uptick in sleaze (you might want to avoid public restrooms when these guys are in town). The most bizarre part of it all is that the FBI is looking for villains in all the wrong places.
What they were looking for, Carroll says, was an informant--someone to show up at "vegan potlucks" throughout the Twin Cities and rub shoulders with RNC protestors, schmoozing his way into their inner circles, then reporting back to the FBI's Joint Terrorism Task Force, a partnership between multiple federal agencies and state and local law enforcement. The effort's primary mission, according to the Minneapolis division's website, is to "investigate terrorist acts carried out by groups or organizations which fall within the definition of terrorist groups as set forth in the current United States Attorney General Guidelines."
Vegan potlucks now fall within the definition of a terrorist cell, as defined by the US Attorney General? What are they going to do, threaten a mass assault by kumbaya-singing hordes in birkenstocks armed with lumps of tofu?
This is not about protecting citizens. It's about silencing the expression of dissent, no matter how mild.
Politics
Comments
worse still I hear some of those birk wearing, tofu gumming folk have an education. Now there is something the fear mongering FBI should target.
Posted by: dan | May 21, 2008 9:11 AM
The proper link:
http://articles.citypages.com/2008-05-21/news/moles-wanted/
This makes me want to go to vegan potlucks now...
Posted by: daenku32 | May 21, 2008 9:12 AM
I couldn't agree more. What's even more disturbing is that the vegans could be declared enemy-combatants and sent to Guantanamo (or worse) and never be seen nor heard from again and it would all be perfectly legal.
So much for America, home of the free...
Posted by: Gene | May 21, 2008 9:13 AM
It makes me feel glad to be an atheist where we only have our great big books of porn, bags of money, and Wednesday night orgies. All that terrorism stuff those vegans are into is even more of a downer than the fact that I can't bring my Modest Proposal Surprise to the potlucks.
Posted by: HumanisticJones | May 21, 2008 9:17 AM
It's things like this that make me wonder if we're set to see another round of "criminal syndicalism" laws. The gubbiment (Executive branch, at least) certainly acts like it. Then again, they seem to disagree that they even need a law.
Posted by: Ranson | May 21, 2008 9:19 AM
The surest sign I haven't had my caffeine yet today is the length of time it took me to get this joke.
Posted by: Blake Stacey | May 21, 2008 9:20 AM
Its amazing how paranoid conservatives can be isn't it? I guess that, because they would firebomb the democratic national convention if they could get away with it, then they figure libs would do the same to them. Unfortunately for their monomania, we just consider them pathetically bad jokes.
To speak to the issue though, the first time the courts, the congress, and the people allowed Bush to segregate his supporters from potential dissenters at a speech; the first time the secret service ejected or detained someone because of the t-shirt they wore to a rally and no legal punishment followed for their overreach; the first time that the Republican party decided to declare their fellow citizens a bigger threat to the country than foreign enemies and enforce policy accordingly, an incident such as this became inevitable.
Posted by: Julian | May 21, 2008 9:22 AM
Minneapolis has the Repubs this year? My condolences. NYC had them in 2004 and it was awful. Midtown was blocked off, police everywhere, the normally fairly decent mayor acting like a fascist and putting people in jail for more than 48 hours without charging them with anything at all. Interestingly, I never saw a single conventioneer, at least not one that could be identified as such. I was expecting that during the convention NYC would be full of people wearing Bush buttons and acting goofy. But it wasn't. The delegates apparently never so much as left their hotels for a drink at the nearest bar. They just shuttled back and forth to the convention and holed up in their rooms (completely negating the supposed benefit of the convention, which was increased tourism). In short, they acted like they were in a city that they had conquered and still had to be careful of the restive natives than in a city that was hosting their convention and hoping to show them a good time. Given the deep blue nature of NYC, perhaps they had a point...
Posted by: Dianne | May 21, 2008 9:22 AM
All that terrorism stuff those vegans are into is even more of a downer than the fact that I can't bring my Modest Proposal Surprise to the potlucks.
Just tell them that the soylent green is made of kelp. They'll never know the difference.
Posted by: Dianne | May 21, 2008 9:25 AM
@ #4.
I'm going to curtail my long-time lurking to be the first to congratulate you on the phrase "Modest Proposal Surprise." That is hilarious.
Posted by: JeffLaw | May 21, 2008 9:26 AM
I fully expected you to come out calling for riots at the RNC convention. But then again that would be irresponsible and unhinged behavior and no one would really call for tha...
oh nevermind.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | May 21, 2008 9:26 AM
If you have to eat a not-dog, then the terrorists already have won.
Posted by: ennui | May 21, 2008 9:28 AM
no kidding
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | May 21, 2008 9:29 AM
Dianne: That doesn't surprise me. They were probably afraid that if they wandered outside they might catch libralidis and mutate into an effete, decadent New York intellectual or something. "I tell ya Dale, 5 minutes in unadulterated New York air is enough to become a Pagan transexual with 2 husbands and an adopted Nigerian child named Apricot! Run for the Hills!!!"
Posted by: Julian | May 21, 2008 9:29 AM
IIRC, the first "free speech zone*" was in the Clinton administration. It's still Police State BS, no matter who does it.
Also, I think ACLU is suing Denver, so they can get info on enforcement, and Denver won't pony up the goods.
*free speech zone my ass. The entire Nation is a free speech zone.
Posted by: True Bob | May 21, 2008 9:36 AM
You're going to be there with your citation needed placard, aren't you, PZ?
Or maybe "Down with this sort of thing!" a la Father Ted.
Speak for those that have no voices, like the other two billion citizens of the free world who aren't allowed to vote for their leader.
Posted by: wazza | May 21, 2008 9:37 AM
Omigawd! The chairman of my math dept is a vegan! Are we all at risk now? Damn, damn, damn.
However, I do think he was recruited into the lifestyle by his wife, so perhaps he's not hardcore. Maybe he can be "turned" and rejoin the forces of liberty and democracy (that is, in the contemporary sense of the words "liberty" and "democracy", which are antonyms of their former meanings).
Posted by: Zeno | May 21, 2008 9:38 AM
I feel safer knowing that he FBI and local police have stopped worrying about gun smugglers, bank robbers, and those who engage in human trafficking, and have begun to focus on the real threats to safety and national security. Those liberal vegan cyclists who participate in street theater.
I, for one, now walk confidently down dark allies.
Posted by: Scott D. | May 21, 2008 9:42 AM
Next on 24: Heroic super-duper patriot Jack Bauer has to defuse a nuclear device made of potato salad and Paprika. Chloe has another mental breakdown.
Posted by: Ryan F Stello | May 21, 2008 9:42 AM
Make that "alleys"
Posted by: Scott D. | May 21, 2008 9:43 AM
News Flash: Dissent against meat and dairy industries is not particularly mild stuff. This is "big business" intent on, as always, maximising profit and they hold immense collective sway. Ever wonder why our food pyramid and the general dietary advice is this so screwed up.
Posted by: Lev | May 21, 2008 9:49 AM
I'll be there with this sign.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | May 21, 2008 9:51 AM
But are they militant vegans?
I say stalk out the restrooms but make sure to have surveillance in place. Can't hurt.
Posted by: Sili | May 21, 2008 9:52 AM
Nope, no silly signs, no Bush is a moron placards, just show up with signs that say "Ezekiel 23:20" and enjoy the confusion.
Not to make light of this, it is appalling what is being done to our liberties in the name of security and deserves to be reported, yelled about, and voted against. I have spent my professional life in the security, intelligence and, of late, counterterrorism fields abroad and from that optic, this is horrifying. Were it not disgusting, it would be pathetically funny. I am not alone in this, I think the Bush people have literally no idea how shallow their support is in the US government and the military, especially among those who actually deal with real security issues vice imagined ones.
The above being said, trying to imagine the horror of a vegan potluck, the vegetable holocaust, the slaughter of of all the little tofs needed to make tofu. I need to go pull a couple of steaks out of the freezer to calm myself. (shudder)
Ciao
Posted by: JeffreyD | May 21, 2008 9:52 AM
You know, that granola can be a deadly weapon, so don't laugh.
Posted by: SebastesMan | May 21, 2008 9:52 AM
This sounds a lot like COINTELPRO to me. Didn't that stir up a shitstorm when it was discovered?
Posted by: haelduksf | May 21, 2008 9:54 AM
PZ, we in Britain are well on the way too.
"Ministers are to consider plans for a database of electronic information holding details of every phone call and e-mail sent in the UK, it has emerged." BBC story here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7409593.stm
Every phone call, every email. And that's from a supposedly 'progressive' Labour government. I think this could be the straw that has us riotiong and dragging the gobshites from Parliament to be thrashed through the streets.
The excuse? National security. When our own governments resort to measures like this, AL Qaida don't need to do much else.
Posted by: Peter Mc | May 21, 2008 9:54 AM
Are they planning on infiltrating the Right Wing with as much zeal? I can just see those FBI moles faking the talking-in-tongues in some Assemblies of God conclave whilst taking attendance notes....
An affront to anyone's liberties (including the Fundies themselves) is an affront to all, of course. But something tells me our Opposite Number is getting a pass on this kind of thing. I don't know whether to cry foul, or fouler.
This country is totally screwed, in anycase.
Posted by: Geoffrey Alexander | May 21, 2008 9:57 AM
Joking aside, this has been going on for a long time: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/20/politics/20fbi.html
And the US intelligence agencies have an even longer history of stalking members of civil rights movements.
There's a patent phobia of COMMUNISM, but we rarely hear hear reports of the FBI infiltrating religious communes that foster cult-ish beliefs.
Priorities.
Posted by: Ryan F Stello | May 21, 2008 9:57 AM
In other words, behaving exactly like the other parishioners.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | May 21, 2008 10:00 AM
Reminds me of the book I'm reading right now: "Letter to a Young Patriot" by Naomi Wolf. It outlines the 10 steps that every fascist government takes to quash democracy. November can't come too quickly.
Posted by: Aaron | May 21, 2008 10:02 AM
Is it just me or do republicans get their own corner office at the intelligence agencies? They are almost always the ones enabling this crap, and it inevitably is always to protect them over anyone else.
Fear makes people evil.
Posted by: BlueIndependent | May 21, 2008 10:04 AM
It looks like I picked a bad time to go vegetarian.
*equips cloak of paranoia +4*
Posted by: spgreenlaw | May 21, 2008 10:04 AM
And where do those names go?
http://pacificfreepress.com/content/view/2623/1/
I was taught that we wore Teh White Hat, and the filthy commies wear the Black one. Now we abuse prisoners for the Red Chinese.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4894921&page=1
Posted by: True Bob | May 21, 2008 10:06 AM
Being a potluck-attending vegan for the past 12 years I would have to say that this is beyond hilarious and fucking scary. I guess I should have known that my years of eating dinner with my friends was equivalent to being a terrurrist.
Maybe that's why my wife buys so much nutritional yeast. It is clearly the main ingredient for those ever-so-destructive Vegan IEDs!
Posted by: Tony | May 21, 2008 10:10 AM
Rev.BDC@30:
Yes, but I would hope the moles at least would know they were faking. I would hope.
...Anyway, they'll probably have to resort to the venomous snakes to weed out the True Believers from the rats. And then we'll have another Anonymous Star go up on the Memorial Wall in Langley -- "Yeah," they'll whisper, "that was Agent Smith, he got popped by a Black Adder while infiltrating the First Pentecostal Church in Luverne, Georgia...."
Posted by: Geoffrey Alexander | May 21, 2008 10:10 AM
NOW you're talking. There's no faking a snake bite from a Crotalus adamanteus.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | May 21, 2008 10:14 AM
In the fine tradition of arresting members of Food Not Bombs for distributing food to homeless people
http://www.foodnotbombs.net/fnb_resists.html
and putting FNB on terrorist watch lists.
Posted by: SC | May 21, 2008 10:16 AM
If only Agent Smith had been in possesion of a cunning plan...
Posted by: True Bob | May 21, 2008 10:16 AM
Maybe they don't get their meaning for blowin' out.
Posted by: Niobe | May 21, 2008 10:16 AM
"Yeah," they'll whisper, "that was Agent Smith, he got popped by a Black Adder while infiltrating the First Pentecostal Church in Luverne, Georgia...."
What was Rowan Atkinson doing in a church in Georgia?
Posted by: Mark B | May 21, 2008 10:17 AM
When they came for the tofu, I said nothing. When they came for the falafel, I said nothing. When they came for the porcini mushrooms sprinkled with vegan cheese and spicy peppers, I went back to the bus and changed by Birkenstocks for combat boots and a flack jacket. Nobody messes with my shrooms!
Posted by: Bodach | May 21, 2008 10:18 AM
Good Luck! We had them here in NYC last time and it was a huge pain in the ass. I took part in the massive protest, which was incredibly peaceful. I talked to a cop who was stationed along the route. He was carrying a machine gun and was in full body armor. He was really pissed off by the whole thing too--Funding for 9-11 victims was being held up and Homeland Security funding for NYC was too low. First responders were totally given the shaft by the same Republicans that made a show of weeping over what used to be the WTC. Basically, the cops were pretty much on the side of the protestors. I think the only problems we had were with the hired thugs that they brought in from outside.
It was a really interesting moment of solidarity among New Yorkers though--just about everybody had some button or t-shirt or sticker that expressed displeasure with the status quo. On the way to work, on the subway, a businesswoman (I'm guessing by the hair, shoes and suit), just sort of lost it and started yelling at a group of fanny-packed conventioneers. Everybody else on the subway cheered. I (almost) felt bad for them. OK, not really.
When the movie trailer for Cloverfield came out I yelled "Oh, a documentary about the Republican Convention" That got lots of laughs.
Posted by: TheWireMonkey | May 21, 2008 10:18 AM
Well, Vegan Cupcakes are damn dangerous.
Posted by: Beth | May 21, 2008 10:21 AM
Peter Mc (#27), I would hardly call Labour "progressive" - supposedly or otherwise. They're down-right authoritarian, and not above outright lying. Together with this new attempt to access our private lives, I'd also like to point out the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, the so-call "voluntary entitlement card" that (not-so-)mysteriously morphed into a compulsory identity card. 48 day detention without trial. The shambles that was the Hutton enquiry. I could go on (whatever happened, for example, to their '97 pledge to introduce proportional representation) and on ("anti-terrorist" stop-and-search laws being used for anything other than anti-terroism). In short, I agree; the US are far behind us in the race to become a police state.
Posted by: Armchair Dissident | May 21, 2008 10:23 AM
Also, can we lose the idea that all vegans are dreadlocked hippies with Burkenstocks? Sure, its funny to imagine us like that, but almost all of the vegans I know (myself included) come from a punk/hardcore background.
Posted by: Tony | May 21, 2008 10:28 AM
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | May 21, 2008 10:33 AM
No Tony, we cannot. It would be unamerican, like atheists without puppy blood slushies.
Posted by: True Bob | May 21, 2008 10:33 AM
How can you spot the real terrorist at a vegan potluck?
They're the one bringing the turkey hot dogs.
DAMN YOU, Soy Protein!
Posted by: Benjamin Franklin | May 21, 2008 10:36 AM
It all makes sense. GWB choked on a pretzel... which is, you know, a vegan food.
He's trying to "smoke us out"...
~Dan, the friendly neighborhood vegeterrorist (wink wink)
http://jazzsick.wordpress.com/
Posted by: Dan | May 21, 2008 10:37 AM
Don't worry, comrades, you'll be able to spot the infiltrators with no trouble: just look for the guys bringing coleslaw and potato salad from take-out bar-b-q joints. (The ones bringing bowls of pork 'n' beans from which all the pork has been painstakingly pulled out are from your local sheriff's office.)
Posted by: Pierce R. Butler | May 21, 2008 10:37 AM
#28 - No, they will not. They're doing exactly what the Bushies want (whether admitted or not), so no harm no foul.
If you think it's about national security, it's not. These morons don't give a shit about that. Invade Iraq because it might have WMDs? Sure! But what happens when someone really does have WMDs?
Well, you be the judge of how these bushist traitors might not give a shit about WMDs set to be used against Americans. Not really. Not unless it's something that can be used to silence the "opposition" or vilify brown people and furriners.
Posted by: Aquaria | May 21, 2008 10:40 AM
As a suburban Minneapolitan with some free summer time, I'm contemplating what the best bit of good-natured interference might be at the convention. Being white and portly and well-groomed, with a few political connections, I considered infiltrating the convention itself, but that would be too weird and though I could use the weight-loss, the nausea would spoil the fun. Maybe I should set up an organization to attract the FBI, some kind of fringe group, show up at the vegan potlucks (pork potstickers and deep-fried cheese curds safely hidden away) and do some recruiting, see if I could get myself infiltrated...that might be fun too. I'll take a practical suggestion.
But I will certainly join a few protest lines, though the free speech zones are located in southwestern North Dakota. Any sign ideas?
ice
Posted by: ice9 | May 21, 2008 10:40 AM
"...like atheists without puppy blood slushies."
If I were injesting anything when I read this, it would be orbiting the planet right now.
Posted by: BlueIndependent | May 21, 2008 10:47 AM
No, no, no. You read this wrong. Not Vegans with the long 'e', Vegans with the long 'a'. You know, illegal aliens from Vega.
Posted by: Kevin | May 21, 2008 10:54 AM
I'm amazed at the lack of skepticism displayed here. I haven't seen a post even attempting to look at the other side. After a brief search, I found an article describing actual domestic terror organizations that the FBI would be justified in investigating.
The reaction here (Paranoid republicans, suppressing dissent, harmless vegans) seems disturbingly like the reaction of creationists (dogs don't turn into cats, that's silly, and you're trying to suppress our religion).
Posted by: qbsmd | May 21, 2008 10:54 AM
Ok, so in 2004 Bush and the RNC came to Manhattan, one of the most dense Democratic locations in the country, and nothing went wrong. In fact, the 100k people protesting there were pretty damn peaceful. And now they worry that about this convention? -- you know they are making shit up.
Posted by: rowmyboat | May 21, 2008 10:54 AM
Maybe their source was vegetariansareevil.com
Posted by: bsd | May 21, 2008 10:55 AM
Some day, I'd like to meet a vegan who could disabuse me of my suspicion that veganism is falls somewhere on the [mostly harmless end of the] cult spectrum.
My sample size is admittedly tiny, but the vegans I've known have had the following traits in common:
* the belief that veganism (and in a couple of cases, veganism alone) could solve global problems
* they had a strong tendency to isolate themselves from non-vegans, and there was subtle peer pressure to avoid associating with non-vegans, aka "omnis"(!)
* also in more than one case, I knew vegans who inflicted their dietary regimen on their cats and/or dogs.
But terrorists? Pfft. Just think of the pigeons and cockroaches that might accidentally be collaterally-damaged in a vegan terrorist attack.
Posted by: Disciple of "Bob" | May 21, 2008 10:56 AM
qbsmd
So Animals Rights fanatics are going to attack the RNC? Surely PZ is more in danger?
Posted by: reason | May 21, 2008 11:00 AM
Careful PZ, those wooden pellets they shoot at bystanders can cause some serious injury. But look on the bright side, the number of prostitutes will increase during the convention. Then again, half of those prostitutes will be guys, it is after all, a Republican convention.
Posted by: Doug | May 21, 2008 11:08 AM
Disciple of "Bob" (#59):
That doesn't sound like the vegans I've known.
Posted by: Blake Stacey | May 21, 2008 11:08 AM
What other side? The side that thinks vegans and Quakers are dyed-in-the-wool terrrrrrsts? I would surmise that folks here are aware that there are actual terrrrst groups, and it'd be good for the FBI to investigate terrrst actions. That isn't "the other side" of "infiltrating peaceful protester groups is a good thing".
Posted by: True Bob | May 21, 2008 11:10 AM
People like qbsmd give me a good laugh. The surest way for a real terrorist organization to operate with complete impunity would be to have the Keystone Cops at the Federal Bureau of Ineptitude on their trail.
By the way, if there is another attack, we're all on the secret list of "dangerous" people to be roudned up: http://tinyurl.com/4hrb7m
Posted by: Steve LaBonne | May 21, 2008 11:11 AM
Does anyone else remember this incident in Quebec last year?:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=gAfzUOx53Rg&feature=related
My favorite part of this particular report is the reporter's pronunciation of "ageaaaaahnts provocateeueuuuuuurs."
Posted by: SC | May 21, 2008 11:12 AM
You've heard of that bridge people want to sell? Nice to see you in line with your pennies to buy it.
The FBI can scream all it wants about eco-terrorists, but the reality is that few of the vegan pot luck crowd has chemical weapons. How many of them have bombed federal buildings? How many of them have huge stockpiles of weapons, like, oh those wackos in Waco?
How much did you hear about William Krar? Can you imagine how this administration would have behaved if he had been brown, foreign and/or leftist? You know Gdub and his buddies would have been screaming their heads off if PETA were caught red-handed with chemical weapons. When it's a white supremacist, this administration's response is, eh what's the big deal?
I'm not saying some eco-terrorists aren't a potential problem, but they pale in comparison to the right wing loonies that are operating in plain sight--and hardly getting looked at. Go after the white supremacists/fundaloonies with the same zeal, with the same priorities, and pursuing the same punishments for their crimes--without having Fed arms twisted into it, then I'll be more willing to listen to the "other side." Until then, going after one side that doesn't have a record for being as extreme as another that has proved, over and over, that they are capable of harming their fellow Americans is outright discrimination and a danger to this country.
Posted by: Aquaria | May 21, 2008 11:12 AM
The Feds are welcome by for veggie din-din at my place anytime, providing they bring a 24-pack of Cokes, and a silly kung-fu movie.
Posted by: DaveX | May 21, 2008 11:14 AM
#59:
The only distinguishing characteristic of vegans is a bizarre insistence that vegan "cheese" is just like the real thing. I think it's a defense mechanism in the face of the vileness of said "cheese."
Posted by: Kadath | May 21, 2008 11:15 AM
You laugh, but happy hippies with ukuleles are absolutely terrifying if you're an easily frightened, insecure idiot. Like 30% of the country apparently are.
Posted by: Joshua | May 21, 2008 11:20 AM
The genesis of this story has been traced back to an email typo by a rookie FBI agent fresh from BYU claiming that the Vegan motto is to "Meet Is Murder".
Next thing you know Jack Bauer will use torture to locate and diffuse a Google Bomb aimed at Dick Cheney.
Posted by: mayhempix | May 21, 2008 11:23 AM
ice9 @ #53,
This always makes me laugh when I think of it:
At the American Party Conventions, Billionaires for Bush (or Gore) dressed in high-camp tuxedos and evening gowns and tried to press wads of fake money into the cops' pockets, thanking them for repressing the dissent. None were even slightly hurt--perhaps police are given aversion therapy against hitting anyone in a tuxedo. The Revolutionary Anarchist Clown Bloc, with their high bicycles, rainbow wigs and squeaky mallets, confused the cops by attacking each other (or the billionaires). They had all the best chants: 'Democracy? Ha Ha Ha!', 'The pizza united can never be defeated', 'Hey ho, hey ho--ha ha, hee hee!', as well as meta-chants like 'Call! Response! Call! Response!' and--everyone's favourite--'Three Word Chant! Three Word Chant!'
http://www.newleftreview.org/A2368
Posted by: SC | May 21, 2008 11:23 AM
Bongwater is a potent chemical weapon. Especially if it's been a while since you've changed it.
Posted by: Mark B | May 21, 2008 11:24 AM
Don Ho was a hippie?
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | May 21, 2008 11:25 AM
#60, I did not say that. I just meant that there are terrorist groups the FBI has a legitimate interest in investigating, and this seems like a way to find them.
#64, That may be true, but if the FBI is too inept to do anything, then what should the country do about crime?
#66, I would agree that the government should react to all groups according to the threat they pose. I don't have enough information to analyze those threats myself. If you post a resource on attacks by domestic terror groups or government effort spent on dealing with each one, I'll look at it.
Posted by: qbsmd | May 21, 2008 11:26 AM
but if the FBI is too inept to do anything, then what should the country do about crime?
It's not that they're inept, it's that the leadership at the top seems to be using them for suppressing political dissent instead of actually investigating crimes and criminal activities. The solution is obvious, they need new leadership.
Posted by: Mark B | May 21, 2008 11:29 AM
Birth Pangs?
Nah, this is the same old shit, and long grown up: Cointelpro anyone? Up for a game of "Spot the Fed"?
I knew it was a police state when they erected the "Free Speech Zone" cages in Boston in 2004.
Too damn bad we don't have a generator attached to Eric Blair's corpse...we could power half the country.
The half that isn't destined for a camp...:-(
Oh, and Aquaria? When the neonazis start firebombing expensive wilderness lodges under construction and Hummer dealerships instead of blowing up people, well, then they've damaged something important, and they'll be hunted down with great zeal. Let no Hummer go unavenged!
Posted by: BruceJ | May 21, 2008 11:30 AM
I'm amazed at the lack of skepticism displayed here.
Skepticism towards what exactly, and how is the cause of skepticism aided by pointing out that there are domestic terrorist organizations? I think that was rather the point. There are domestic terrorist organizations, and they are unlikely to be holding vegan potlucks.
If you think skepticism towards the idea that this is an FBI action is required, then you should really hang out with some authentically left wing organizations for a bit, because in my experience this kind of ham-handedness from the FBI is hardly new. Informants, provocateurs, and the suspicion of harmless leftist organizations (like calling Food Not Bombs an "anarcho-vegan" terrorist organization) are par for the course.
In 2003, an organization I was affiliated with held a protest at the inauguration of the Dole Institute of Politics on the KU campus. It turned into a police riot at the encouragement of people who were known FBI agents from the Topeka and Kansas City regional offices.
In 2004, many of these same people were served with federal subpoenas, thanks to the FBI, in order to prevent their participation in the protests at the Republican convention. They also had an informer, which was subsequently confirmed by documents obtained pursuant to a FOIA request.
We've also had agents provocateurs in our war protests, in the truly obvious ways that only an infiltrator from the latter-day Red Squads can manage. It's frightening to think what these people might be able to achieve if they possessed any competence.
Posted by: Nullifidian | May 21, 2008 11:31 AM
Aww, man! I'll be in Minneapolis in a few weeks. Luckily I'll be out before they start pouring in!
Posted by: Chris (in Columbus) | May 21, 2008 11:31 AM
(.)(.)
Posted by: wÒÓ† | May 21, 2008 11:33 AM
For those who were wondering, now we know: creeping authoritarianism tastes like chicken!
Posted by: jre | May 21, 2008 11:37 AM
Anyone remember the peace group in Fresno that Michael Moore featured in Fahrenheit 9/11? Yep, those crazy peaceniks, with their their fresh baked cookies, and their little old ladies crocheting, like some kind of latter day Madame deFarges.
Posted by: Aquaria | May 21, 2008 11:38 AM
It was odd to see most of the protesters at a Cheney appearance willingly let themselves be herded into a distant, fenced-off "free speech zone."
A few of us refused, and I got a secret service sniper rifle poked in my chest for my troubles.
Interesting thing was, though, talking to one of the trench-coated guys supervising security - he also thought the "free speech zone" was bullshit. Or maybe he was just humoring me.
Posted by: craig | May 21, 2008 11:40 AM
What a fabulous opportunity to feed the Feds dis-information!
The only problem is the vegan pot-luck itself.
"What did you bring?"
"Tofu casserole, and you?"
"Tofu casserole."
Posted by: LightningRose | May 21, 2008 11:42 AM
#60, I did not say that. I just meant that there are terrorist groups the FBI has a legitimate interest in investigating, and this seems like a way to find them.
By INFILTRATING VEGAN POTLUCKS?!?!?!
How on earth could you consider that a viable pathway to finding the genuinely dangerous domestic terrorists, who are largely on the right wing? Would attending vegan potlucks have put anyone on the trail of William Krar? Or Robert Goldstein? Or the Jewish Defense League? Or The Order? Or any of the other hundreds of right-wing terrorist organizations and individuals active in the United States today?
That's where the genuine threat originates, both in terms of planned and executed terrorist acts.
Posted by: Nullifidian | May 21, 2008 11:44 AM
The United States Attorney General has guidelines?
Posted by: Mikey M | May 21, 2008 11:49 AM
I need to find someplace to which I can flee while they're in town. I already warned my coworkers I'd be either working from home or on vacation since both downtowns are between home and office.
Have you checked your class for infiltrators, PZ? There might be some clues in their genetics finals...
Posted by: Michael Vieths | May 21, 2008 11:54 AM
When I got to the original article it is blank.
Coincidence, I think not.
Posted by: Rahein | May 21, 2008 11:56 AM
Nah, this is the same old shit, and long grown up: Cointelpro anyone? Up for a game of "Spot the Fed"?
I knew it was a police state when they erected the "Free Speech Zone" cages in Boston in 2004.
Those cages look like the ones which were erected for "Free Speech Zones" in during the 2000 LA Democratic National Convention, and I think we all know who was president then: the same guy who pressured Mayor Paul Schell to crack down violently on the Direct Action Network's protests and unilaterally declare an illegal curfew and 50-block "No Protest Zone".
Both parties, alas, are equally as bad as each other when it comes to suppressing dissent; the Democrats merely don a velvet glove before seizing the rubber truncheon.
Posted by: Nullifidian | May 21, 2008 12:00 PM
True Bob: Seriously? I don't remember ever hearing "free speech zone" until the current admin, so thanks for pointing out Clinton's use of this. Gives me something to look up :)
Posted by: Julian | May 21, 2008 12:09 PM
@ #31: Yep, step 5 (chapter 6 of "The End of America"): Infiltrate Citizens' Groups.
Posted by: Aaron Golas | May 21, 2008 12:12 PM
Thankfully, Minneapolis will NOT be hosting the convention in 2008. Indeed, I cannot imagine the circumstances under which Minneapolis would EVER host the Republican National Convention.
Please stop spreading these nasty rumors about Minneapolis.
Now, St. Paul, that is an ENTIRELY different story. More different than most people realize.
Posted by: Greg Laden | May 21, 2008 12:19 PM
Why do I get the odd feeling the choice of bunking in a
Re-education And Elimination "Workshop Getaway" or becoming a Good German is a possibility in the near future?
Then again, I reassure myself that will _never_ happen in the great land that is The United Parking Lot.
(places Rose colored glasses back on and listens to the latest pop "sampling")
Posted by: Cynodont | May 21, 2008 12:21 PM