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PZ Myers is a biologist and associate professor at the University of Minnesota, Morris.
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We are asked to justify these frightful passages, these infamous laws of war, because the Bible is the word of God. As a matter of fact, there never was, and there never can be, an argument even tending to prove the inspiration of any book whatever. In the absence of positive evidence, analogy and experience, argument is simply impossible, and at the very best, can amount only to a useless agitation of the air. The instant we admit that a book is too sacred to be doubted, or even reasoned about, we are mental serfs. It is infinitely absurd to suppose that a god would Address a communication to intelligent beings, and yet make it a crime, to be punished in eternal flames, for them to use their intelligence for the purpose of understanding his communication. If we have the right to use our reason, we certainly have the right to act in accordance with it, and no god can have the right to punish us for such action.
[Robert G. Ingersoll, "The Gods", 1872]
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« Play a game! | Main | Speaking of pulling ads… »
Category: Godlessness
Posted on: May 29, 2008 9:20 AM, by PZ Myers
I'm impressed: the car dealership has backed down on their offensive ad. Their apology is a bit disingenuous — they claim they really don't remember approving the ad, and they intended it to be humorous, which I don't really believe — but the letter writing was effective. The minority who phoned in a few cuss words … not so much.
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Comments
"Rick Kieffe... insisted that he does not remember approving the ad..."
Yeah, right!
Add liar to to the list.
Posted by: Benjamin Franklin | May 29, 2008 9:26 AM
It's the standard non-apology apology. "I'm sorry that you took offense to my words" kind of thing.
Posted by: Dennis N | May 29, 2008 9:29 AM
Wow, would you really buy a car from someone who "can't remember" that they approve obnoxious ads? Is this supposed to be an apology, or an acknowledgement of senility?
But then again, car dealers commonly try to use their insanity to get us to buy cars.
"Come see our in-SANE-ly low prices!!!!"
Do you trust buying a car from someone who is admittedly insane?
(credit to Paula Poundstone)
Posted by: Pablo | May 29, 2008 9:30 AM
They have also updated their website.
"Frequently we emphasize humor and patriotic themes." So, what theme were they emphasizing with the "sit down and shut up" ad? Humor? Patriotism?
Posted by: Jim C. | May 29, 2008 9:31 AM
The minority who phoned in a few cuss words ... not so much.
"There is no cause so right that one cannot find a fool following it." Sometimes the line between being aggressive and being an idiot is kinda blurry.
Posted by: Matt | May 29, 2008 9:32 AM
Christians sure do suck at telling lies effectively. Or have we logical thinkers just gotten good at catching them because they lie so very often?
Posted by: Greymalkin | May 29, 2008 9:42 AM
A few Christians are really good at lying to the rest who spend their lives defending and upholding the lies.
Posted by: caynazzo | May 29, 2008 9:53 AM
F-
Posted by: Ref. BigDumbChimp | May 29, 2008 9:54 AM
And to think this will probably lead to my never buying a Ford again. I bet that was a real giggle for their stockholders.
Posted by: steve8282 | May 29, 2008 10:03 AM
And while that ad is no longer being broadcast, having run its full 90 days earlier this year, it has had an effect on the dealership's future ads.
What do you mean they "backed down"? They did no such thing. All they said was they wouldn't do it again.
Posted by: Techskeptic | May 29, 2008 10:04 AM
Why is it so hard for people to just say, "I did a stupid thing, and I apologize. Check out our tent sale this weekend, with an extra $50.00 rebate for atheists and agnostics!"
I am still not buyng a Ford next time.
Posted by: Mike Haubrich, FCD | May 29, 2008 10:04 AM
Y'all sound like a bunch of rabid Xians. The guy said the next ad, which they dropped, was supposed to make fun of the Ten Commandments by insisting that it should have been 15 but Mel Brooks dropped the third tablet. He has a sense of humor. You Xians don't.
Posted by: Oldfart | May 29, 2008 10:09 AM
Chill out everyone, this is good.
Either they are genuine (unlikely), in which case they corrected their error and made the actual writer of the add (this Horne guy- http://jwhorne2.blogspot.com/) look like a fool.
Or they are disingenuous, in which case they were shamed into removing their foot from their mouth by an overwhelming negative response.
Either way, the undoubted avalanche of reasoned, rational, logical phone calls and emails reflects well on us, bad on them. Its not gonna change anything, but its a tick in our column.
Posted by: Jason Apple | May 29, 2008 10:09 AM
Some of us are missing the point.
The point is: Atheists/freethinkers now have the clout to cause a change like this.
The general public, at least in the form of merchants, are now becoming sensitive enought to recognize that the non-religious are worth caring about.
Maybe atheists are still the demographic most people wouldn't want their son or daughter marrying. But if those same people own a car dealership, at least they don't feel free to say it in public anymore.
This is progress.
Posted by: Hank Fox | May 29, 2008 10:18 AM
I guess they pretty much had to target the irrational consumers. But then, my penchant for evidence-based reasoning has made me a religious skeptic and a Toyota driver.
Posted by: Jay | May 29, 2008 10:23 AM
I don't believe the explanation, but I'm more than willing to cut the owner some slack and let him save face. This is a solid victory, demonstrating the power of mass action (and that being "uppity" works). I think we should be generous and not get churlish about the explanation.
Posted by: Tulse | May 29, 2008 10:24 AM
What the hell? They STILL didn't apologize for offending every Jew, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist and any other non-christian they told to sit down and shut up. That wasn't an apology, it was "we're sorry you didn't like it" which is slightly ruder. And then to have the GALL to say (in more or less words) that if you're not christian you're an atheist... I guess he didn't feel any apology was warranted to any other group because they didn't shout their indignation. I'm all for political incorrectness in advertising, as long as it's used tastefully and obviously as a parody or joke. I certainly don't think people need to stand up and cry "foul" every time they're offended by the least little thing, but THAT was way out of line, as was their rather snide "apology".
Posted by: Snitzels | May 29, 2008 10:26 AM
The guy who penned the ad, a certain JW Horne (beep) doesn't seem very contrite in his statement over there on the [probably mis-named] Kieffe and Sons website. His attitude is basically this: "Tough shit, you bastard minority." Oh yeah, and he came out with both guns blazing - the Smith and Wesson Ignoramus .45 and the Winchester Arrogance Semi-Automatic. Cuz "this country was founded on the belief in God," dontcha know. Oh yeah, and we all should be complaining about "pedifiles on the internet lurking around like a wolf" and high gas prices and Mexicans and stuff, instead of his ad. Tsk tsk. Silly us.
Posted by: Kseniya | May 29, 2008 10:27 AM
To those who complain that a Car Salesman might not be telling the whole truth...
LOL!!
Posted by: watercat | May 29, 2008 10:28 AM
(Technically, neither the Jews nor the Muslims were being told to sit down and shut up. Same god, right?)
Posted by: Kseniya | May 29, 2008 10:29 AM
Depends who you ask. The more fundamentalist the Christian, the more likely they'll strenuously object to that statement, at least where Islam is concerned.
Posted by: MartinM | May 29, 2008 10:38 AM
I guess that's nice, but realistically it wouldn't cost him much. If Logic and Reason truly be on our side, then it's doubtful you'd see an atheist buying a Ford anyway. ;)
Posted by: GregV | May 29, 2008 10:40 AM
Just think what we atheists could accomplish if we ever decided to organize!
Posted by: vjack | May 29, 2008 10:43 AM
He probably doesn't specifically remember approving the ad, because he probably just saw it, didn't see a problem with it, and gave it his routine approval. He knows that he did approve, but can plausibly deny specific memory of it.
Truth is, it's pretty much a standard retraction, neither heartfelt nor especially blaming anyone else. They're just acknowledging that it didn't get the results they wanted, and will try something else. Good, unless someone really wants a sorry pound of flesh, or contrition, which I don't really desire.
I don't know how one could conclude from the evidence that the cuss words didn't help "so much". I think these guys are pretty much trying to stem the tide of negativity, and I suspect that they're not differentiating much between negative comments.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: Glen Davidson | May 29, 2008 10:48 AM
Oldfart @#12
Can you explain yourself? I don't really care if his next or previous ad was funny. This one really, really wasn't. It might not mean much to you but I don't particualrly like being told to shut up.
Posted by: Jens | May 29, 2008 10:50 AM
For atheists to be congradulating themselves on this is as lame as the advertisement itself.
The ad ran for 90 days. Tell me that nobody at the dealership knew it was being run or discussed it. Of course they approved the ad. They had 90 days to pull it even if they did not review it carefully.
For an appology, I would not accept anything less than:
(1) Ending all business relationships with the advertising agency that came up with the ad. Certainly, they do not deserve any business if they produce this kind of garbage.
(2) Admit that they did harm to innocent people and admit to a moral obligation to provide compensation for the harm done. A significant donation to an organization fighting anti-atheist bigotry would be appropriate.
Anything less than this, and we are as good as giving permission to any other company or individual to do the same thing.
Posted by: Alonzo Fyfe | May 29, 2008 10:53 AM
'the commercial that has prompted the current objection to religious sentiment ("Under God", "In We Trust")'
Was the objection to "religious sentiment" or the command for minorities to "sit down and shut up?"
Posted by: Mikey M | May 29, 2008 10:53 AM
Cue Nisbet and J the concern troll on how speaking out isn't an effective frame, and we really should have left this issues for our betters to deal with in 3...2...1....
*dons his flame retardant suit* =)
I love the form the standard notpology takes these days, though. Whether it comes from a IDiot, politician, or car salesman, they all follow the same formula.
And a few irate people cussing at them amidst all the rational comments I don't see as a total negative either, some people need a (proverbial) flame thrower aimed at them every once in a while...
Cheers.
Posted by: FastLane | May 29, 2008 10:57 AM
Wow, I read the link to the ad writer's blog at #13. That was apinful. The guy is such a bastard. I only got about a third of the way through the comments. The commenters were well spoken and made a lot of interesting points, but Horne himself- pathetic and unreadable. He states he agrees with his commenters in his first response, then promptly tells them all to sit down and shut up or go fight the real evils of the world - like high gas prices and the guy who sued a school that tried to force his daughter to say the Pledge of Allegience. Ugh.
Posted by: sublunary | May 29, 2008 11:00 AM
What's interesting is that although the dealership has apologized (after its fashion) the advertiser in Oklahoma has just created that new weblog already mentioned and given it the name of the dealership, probably without their permission. As posters have previously mentioned, Horne is anything but apologetic; in fact, the blog itself seems to have been created just for the purpose of fanning the flames with more in-yo-face rhetoric, and in some replies he's added racism and homophobia to his rant. Anyone care to inform the car dealer himself of this? According to the newspaper article, the dealer himself doesn't go to church and only considers himself to have "a christian spirit". Wonder if he approves of what his (former?) ad firm is doing in his name?
Posted by: Geoffrey Alexander | May 29, 2008 11:01 AM
apinful = painful, of course.
Preview, girl. Preview!
Posted by: sublunary | May 29, 2008 11:11 AM
I've contacted Ford by way of their email letting them know how I feel about the situation, along with links describing the ad which, in turn, link to the actual ad itself. I've posed the same question: what if they had asked blacks, Jews, or women to simply sit down and shut up? I'll post any response I may receive.
Posted by: Richard Wolford | May 29, 2008 11:23 AM
Gawd... I just drove through that place the day before yesterday.
It has changed very little in the past 30 years or so; IOW it is the same pathetic s***hole it has always been.
For Southern Californians, driving through Mojave is part of the price of admission to the eastern Sierra.
I'm not sure which is worse -- $4.50/gallon gasoline or having to drive through Mojave twice in one week.
Posted by: caerbannog | May 29, 2008 11:23 AM
Jason Apple,
I would love to have your attitude again. I used be able to think that way about these 'gaffes', but after you see it so many times, you realize it is the pattern.
Say something massively offensive to the minority. Pretend you didn't realize you were saying it. Offer tepid apology which doesn't actually apologize for your attitude, just that you got called out on it. Rinse and repeat.
Just a few weeks ago the second highest ranking executive at my company sent out a very macho-jingoistic-hyperChristian email with comments like "if you disagree you should just leave America". He thought it was "funny" just like the car dealership. And funny enough, all the white guys in the office thought nothing of it. But all the women and minorities were highly offended. Almost all work stopped at the place that week.
His apology? "I had poor judgment. I'm sorry if I offended anyone."
See, he's not sorry he sent his hate-filled diatribe to the entire group. He sorry we were offended by it. You see it constantly from those who are intent on marginalizing minority groups.
And while it may be tempting to think, "Great, he won't do it again now," there is always another one to step into the breach, using the term 'tar baby' or 'macaca' and pretending not to know what it means, etc. And all we are left with is a constant barrage of these loud insults and quiet half-a**ed apologies.
Posted by: gex | May 29, 2008 11:24 AM
I'm calling this JW Horne out as a troll. His blog site was created on 5/28/2008. If he was indeed the independent advertiser he claims to be, surely he would have had a webpage or business number? I do not understand why people put so much energy into being hateful and intolerant.
Posted by: mick | May 29, 2008 11:34 AM
Here's a copy of the email I sent them after I read about the ad here:
TWIMC,
I have read about your un-American ad campaign, which is a disgrace to the Founding Fathers of our nation who intended that no one group's religion be forced on others. They also intended that everyone be allowed to voice their ideas; the concept with which you seem to be unfamiliar is called freedom of speech. In complete opposition to those noble men and that great ideal, your instruction to those who don't share your beliefs, in which you tell them to "shut up," spits on the Founding Fathers and the bedrock American principles that make this nation great. You should be ashamed. Certainly, true Americans who understand the principles of this nation are ashamed of you.
Posted by: labert | May 29, 2008 11:44 AM
What change? He didn't change his attitude. He's sorry he said it. He's not sorry he thinks it.
To how it will affect their bottom line, yes. That they should be more tolerant, no.
They should be ashamed to be thinking it.
Sorry, I'm not congratulating someone for only robbing the victim and not killing him, too.
It's a standard notpology: I'm sorry I said it, but I'm not sorry I still think it's true.
And I don't believe for one second they let a commercial air for 90 days that they didn't approve and didn't hear in all that time.
Posted by: tsg | May 29, 2008 11:52 AM
If all Kieffe has to complain about are people leaving four letter words in phone messages, he's got it good. Jeremy Hall has gotten death threats from Christians.
Posted by: ShavenYak | May 29, 2008 11:55 AM
I remember when Barney's Beanery restaurant in West Hollywood California posted a sign that said "Fags Keep Out."
This says more about the people who write and even think such things than it does about atheism or any minority group.
And yeah, it's a non-pology. I'm sorry if they're offended that my next car is a Toyota. It's not the bigotry, it's the fact that Fords suck... I've had two in my lifetime. That's more than enough.
Posted by: Siamang | May 29, 2008 12:05 PM
There are two ways to say, "I'm sorry I said that."
One is, "I didn't realize how it would sound to you. I can see how it would be offensive. I'll be more aware in the future nd I won't do it again."
The other is, "I'm sorry you were offended. (Jeeze, lighten up a little, would you?)"
It sounds like we're hearing the latter.
Posted by: Monado | May 29, 2008 12:08 PM
Yes. It really comes down to whether or not "I'm sorry I said it" is followed with "but I meant it".
Basically, they're sorry they said it out loud.
Posted by: tsg | May 29, 2008 12:17 PM
An apology, even the pseudo-apology here, that specifically mentions atheist pressure is great. It shows we are starting to grow some teeth, not just to each other, but to that poor persecuted majority, the religious.
Go us!
Posted by: Akheloios | May 29, 2008 12:18 PM
tsg, I see where you're coming from, and I don't think we need to be giving the guy any cookies, but on the other hand, I don't think anybody is. I think most people here are happy that there was a response at all, rather than the SOP where the ones with the privilege just ignore the minorities' complaints because they can. A notpology is better than "Fuck you! *delete*" Getting a bigot to stop saying bigoted things in public is better than having to suffer them keeping on keeping on.
I personally don't believe outside pressure ever has that much effect on the way bigots think, so I don't think "getting them to stop thinking that way" is an object. Either the person will realise they're prejudiced for themselves, or they won't. Getting the bigots to take their bigotry inside isn't about the bigots; it's about all the other people who come into the bigots' line of fire.
Hate anybody you like in private, and I have no problem with it. Hate anybody in public, and then we start to disagree. (Or, to rephrase it more tritely, your right to swing your fist ends at the end of my nose.)
This is in fact a partial victory -- and at this point, half a loaf is about all we can expect. We do need to keep agitating, but an entire culture doesn't turn on a dime, either. (Case in point, western culture has had at least 200 years of feminism -- dating from Mary Wollstonecraft's 1792 A Vindication of the Rights of Woman -- and we're still not completely "there" yet.)
Posted by: Interrobang | May 29, 2008 12:25 PM
Gex -
I don't really disagree with anything you've said. Actually, i think you made my point in a way. I don't expect that it is a sincere apology, and in fact it is a little half a**ed. And I'm sure that if it were hate speech against another group than atheists, they would have been more sincere. But that's my point. I'm not expecting much, I'm just happy that we got it.
They were shamed enough into posting a reply on their main page, which brings the ignorance of the ad into even more exposure. Plus, the Horne guy is revealed as a total blowhard.
Its not gonna change the world, not gonna make atheists any more "trusted", not gonna stop it from happening again. But the most we can hope for is that every time it happens they get knocked back like they got knocked back this time. And not because we cursed at them or told them to shut up, but because we (for the most part) took the high road.
Posted by: Jason Apple | May 29, 2008 12:46 PM
You wouldn't think that the percentage of atheists is around the same percentage as blacks or Hispanics in the US would you?
This is bigotry, pure and unadulterated. It should be no more acceptable than it would to say "Kieffe and Sons sells Fords to white folk only. Blacks, Hispanics and Jews can walk"
But attitudes about blacks have changed enormously in the last 50 years - and they are changing for atheists too.
Who knows maybe we'll have an (openly) atheist presidential candidate in another 20 years.
Posted by: Quidam | May 29, 2008 12:52 PM
I kind of enjoyed this part of the Californian article:
Gee, what does that mean? Your first post on this only got up to 380 comments (I think at least 30% of them were from one guy). It's not like people accidentally go off on tangents once in a while or anything like that.
Speaking of tangents:
Yeah, $4.50 gas... I'm turning 50 this year, and to celebrate, we're going to Yellowstone for our first time ever. Yay! There's no good way to fly or train there (the train trip is 2+ days, and then you still have to drive 5 hours) from Northern California. It's 12 hours to drive, and flying to Spokane or SLC (and when you do that, you still have a one day drive) would cost nearly $2,000. Just going to have to bite the bullet. Oh, and that "side trip" to Seattle adds, well, 900 miles. So, 2,500 miles at 25 mpg (in our Ford Escape!) = 100 gallons = $450.
Still cheaper than flying (and then renting a car and driving almost as far as we would have had we simply driven the whole way).
Posted by: MikeM | May 29, 2008 1:04 PM
"apinful" (#29) - I like it.
Could be the next misspelling meme on Teh Internetz with a bit of shameless promotion !!1eleven!etc.
Posted by: Elwood Herring | May 29, 2008 1:11 PM
Just to make it clear again for the sake of the poor dealership owner who did apologize somewhat, the site we're speaking of that claims to be his Dealership Site is not: it's a troll site just created yesterday by the adwriter in OK for the purpose of saying "fuck you all, I'm not really sorry" to us and playing up his rant at the expense of the dealer and the situation he landed him in.
Posted by: Geoffrey Alexander | May 29, 2008 1:12 PM
Jason Apple,
Agreed. The best revenge is to live well. And I feel better when avoiding the mud. I just need to get better at it!
Posted by: gex | May 29, 2008 1:24 PM
How come they never say something like, "Forgive us?" That's kinda weird, no?
Posted by: Kristine | May 29, 2008 1:41 PM
Here in the UK you could probably prosecute this as hate speech. However I'm not sure that is the right course as it smacks too much of 'don't talk about this, it might scare the horses'. I much more admire your Free Speech rights coupled with people slowly realising that some free speech is going to get them into trouble and/or is beyond the pale in any society.
Posted by: Peter Ashby | May 29, 2008 1:45 PM
I agree that 'apinful' is a good word. It has an overtone of bee stings about it.
Posted by: Peter Ashby | May 29, 2008 1:49 PM
It appears that the blog mentioned above is now gone. Anyone confirm this?
Posted by: Richard Wolford | May 29, 2008 1:51 PM
It was Shakespeare who said in Hamlet, "act the part of virtue" and it will become more natural. Ghandi said, "Be the change you want to see in the world." If prejudice and hatred and violence against anyone who wants to be treated equally is shamed, shunned, and retracted however reluctantly, it will help to create a world where people don't think that way any more. The younger people especially don't see the point. There's racism in Canada still, and neglect of First Nations people, and so on. But people are ashamed of it in public and struggle against it in themselves. Seeing others jumped on makes us re-examine out own attitudes.
Posted by: Monado | May 29, 2008 1:55 PM
This kind of thing is not at all uncommon. Years back, we bought a car from a local dealer and for years after (up until recently in fact), we received religious bullshit from the salesman every month that had nothing whatsoever to do with cars, he was just using his client list as a mailing list to spam people with fundamentalist crap. We repeatedly asked them to knock it off, said it was completely inappropriate, they refused.
Posted by: Cephus | May 29, 2008 2:03 PM
Yes. I'm getting "Blog not found."
Posted by: Monado | May 29, 2008 2:11 PM
I think we should all pat ourselves on the back for this one. Personally, I'm glad these guys are done with this bullsh*t.
Still, it seems like a Monique Davis style non-apology.
Posted by: JStein | May 29, 2008 2:41 PM
@Interrobang #43
I just can't consider an insincere apology as a victory of any kind. Call me a pessimist, but I don't see this a step in the right direction. I see it as just one step fewer, out of several hundred, in the wrong direction. Yes, it's slightly better than it could have been, but it's still not nearly good enough. Not by half.
Posted by: tsg | May 29, 2008 3:25 PM
Apparently, Horne has taken down his original blog and replaced it with
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=2256159717187911719&postID=142676016122705528 for comments
far from being apologetic, Horne says-
"I think what caused the biggest concern to the negative responders is this. I might just have awaken the silient majority and it just might raise up and tell the others to SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP. Now wouldn't that be something?"
Posted by: Benjamin Franklin | May 29, 2008 3:26 PM
Ah, he's dropped the name of the dealership and recreated the blog at his new address, under his own name. Honest at least in that respect. Even more of a fuckwit as the day goes by.
Posted by: Geoffrey Alexander | May 29, 2008 3:53 PM
Yes, we've seen this so many times before. One group decides another group is taking up too much space. Next thing you know the "undesirables" are persecuted or dead. The Amalekites, the Canaanites, the Jews, Pol Pot, the Afghani Taliban, the Sunnis, the Shiites, the commies, the capitalists, the catholics, the protestants, the Xians, the Moslems, the Serbs, the Croats.
History is littered with atrocities of this kind going back to the Old Testament. Guy doesn't even rise to Christofascist, more like Christo-genocidal maniac.
Oklahoma, wonder if he is buddies with Keith Eaton. And they really should check their water supply for mind destroying chemicals. And fix up their mental health care system, in the unlikely event that they even have one.
Posted by: raven | May 29, 2008 3:57 PM
>What the hell? They STILL didn't apologize for offending
>every Jew, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist and any other non-
>christian they told to sit down and shut up. That wasn't
>an apology, it was "we're sorry you didn't like it" which
>is slightly ruder.
Some people will never be happy (like the above). Well at least until there isn't any religion and then they will not be happy beccause of the emptiness in their lives.
Posted by: Kenny | May 29, 2008 4:08 PM
Some people will never be happy (like the above). Well at least until there isn't any religion and then they will not be happy beccause of the emptiness in their lives.
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | May 29, 2008 4:11 PM
No religion in my life and I'm happy... I love sleeping in Sunday mornings.
Posted by: Dennis N | May 29, 2008 4:15 PM
@#62 Kenny --
Many of us are able to find happiness in our lives without the need for self-delusion. If you can't, perhaps this (especially in light of your obsession with death and imagined persecution) points to a deeper problem.
Get psychological help, Kenny. It's worth it.
Posted by: Etha Williams | May 29, 2008 4:20 PM
#53
Yes the Blog has been pulled. I took a cache of it and here for posterity is the text. It claims to be the work of J W Horne:
Blog post:
It seems that the blog has only one message ever and this is it
It sounds authentic to me and not a parody.
Posted by: Quidam | May 29, 2008 4:22 PM
Knowlenge about the real, material and tangible world its
my religion... researching in order to discover
new facts its my cult, and spanding the joy of learning my preaying...
That and videogames... im feel my life fullfiled after
finishing one...
Posted by: Lord Zero | May 29, 2008 4:25 PM
What a lame 'apology'. And of course they use the number one PR escape tool, blame it on someone else. They must have a bunch of chimps (or creationists), approving their ads to let something like this slide-by.
Posted by: Jon | May 29, 2008 4:29 PM
@66 Quidam
What you have there is the front page of the new blog, not the old one and yes, there is only that one post so far; it seems he's getting more obnoxious with each incarnation; to see the comments on this one click on the "33 Comments" (it was 33 just a moment ago) at the end of his post.
Posted by: Geoffrey Alexander | May 29, 2008 4:38 PM
Get over yourself, Kenny. If your life is so full of teh jeebus, why do you bother with a science blog full of atheists? Shouldn't you be out enjoying the day with your imaginary best buddy?
Or is there a tickling in the back of your brain telling you that religion just doesn't make sense? And you are scared of that tickling so you bother us to prove to Big J just how pious you are?
Posted by: Jay | May 29, 2008 4:40 PM
Uh Oh it seems to be back up again.
http://jwhorne2.blogspot.com/2008/05/thats-tough.html
Posted by: Quidam | May 29, 2008 4:44 PM
Yes, it is a lame apology, but I am frankly amazed they retracted at all. As others have said above, the minds of the people who wrote and cleared the ad will not be changed, bigots seldom do change. However, they can be shamed into hiding their bigotry. Every time a bigot does not feel comfortable spreading hate, it is a victory for a society. The less hate spread, the more people are willing to treat others fairly, sometimes out of realizing it is best, sometimes because they have learned to keep their mouths shut less they be castigated as the fools they are. In either case, society benefits, people benefit, and another generation hears less thoughtless hate and, with luck, does not learn knee jerk hate responses.
I live in the real world and know hatreds will not just disappear. I know we still have a long way to go on racism, for example. However, I am old enough to remember "white only" drinking fountains, waiting rooms, and luncheon counters. Those are gone. No, it is not enough, but it is a start. When I tell my children about those days, they cannot believe such things, that encourages me.
Ciao y'all
Posted by: JeffreyD | May 29, 2008 4:48 PM
Quidam - If you're running, you got my vote. We need a President with your mad PhotoShop skillz.
After Obama's 2nd term of course. You should start shopping NOW for a "Quidam Girl" to capitalize on the "Obama Girl's " trend setting.
And Congratulations to all that dropped dime on the doofus.
Posted by: J-Dog | May 29, 2008 4:50 PM
Posted by: Andreas Johansson | May 29, 2008 5:19 PM
I agree that this is positive, not because it is a real apology but more that it shows that some progress has been made. Remember how Bush senior made the comments about atheists leaving America all those years ago and never retracted them. To it shows 2 step:
1. Atheists have been noisy enough to be noticed in the mainstream.
2. Atheists are powerful enough to force people to backdown.
I think that this shows the same process that women, African-Americans and gays have had to go through, we are just at the start of the curve.
Posted by: Michael J | May 29, 2008 6:05 PM
Ugh. Michael J, you just reminded me that I am in all four of those groups you listed. Sometimes I just really hate being so f***ing "other".
However, I boost my spirits by thinking that social change has always been slow, but in the information age it has sped up somewhat. These battles won't take as long, hopefully.
Posted by: gex | May 29, 2008 6:36 PM
I haven't forgotten the Minar Ford (Now new Brighton Ford) prayer meetings.
Close to home in New Brighton MN.
http://tinyurl.com/6nkcng
Posted by: TL | May 29, 2008 7:56 PM
I'm inclined to give the guy some credit. He didn't really have anything to lose if he'd refused to apologize - that part of California is overall VERY right-wing and the bible-beaters are powerful there - in fact if he'd dug his heels in he probably could have used the publicity to gin up some business from the fundies. An atheist boycott of his dealership would have meant jack squat in terms of lost business.
Bottom line, an apology was requested, and one was received. Regarding some of the comments here, I dunno when so many people in this country decided that when their feelings are offended, they're entitled to not only demand an apology, but then parse through the wording of the apology and demand that the apology conform to the proper degree of grovelling. It just doesn't work that way. Obviously this is a general problem by no means limited to Pharyngula commenters, but I sure wish it would stop.
Posted by: EJ | May 29, 2008 9:21 PM
I didn't hear the ad but on the face of it (reading the quoted bit) I'm not sure I care about it. Are the atheists genuinely offended by the ad, or by the fact it might actually work because there's an element of truth to the figures? Taking offence looks a little like political correctness gone mad - like nothing, anywhere should ever do or say anything that might possibly, remotely offend anyone. That puts all the skeptical blogs on the blacklist.
At the end of the day the ad isn't pushing Christianity, it's just using a statistical "fact"(?) to try and sell cars to a subset of the community. At least they were being honest about the fact they don't care about the other 14%. Honesty is a refreshing change for used car ads.
On a slightly different note, and in reference to the heading in your original post on this ad (What if they wouldn't sell cars to uppity blacks, Jews, and women?), we have an ad running in Australia that claims blacks are physically superior to whites (athletically) and then promotes a product that will presumably narrow the gap. I can't remember what it's selling because it's just too dumb to pay attention to (I think it's clothing). I don't think I'm offended though.
Posted by: AndyD | May 30, 2008 12:01 AM
I can't shake the feeling that perhaps all of the emails CC'd to Ford MoCo had more to do with the apology than anything the dealer might have read.
Posted by: pcarini | May 30, 2008 1:11 AM
Please do not forget that the present state of national economy requires a proper frame on this matter.
Like an atheist scientist should be first and foremost a scientist and only after that an atheist, an American atheist should be first and foremost an American and only then an atheist.
We have alrady seen how important it is for the advancement of science for scientists to "lay low" on the matters of atheism. Likewise, the state of national economy requires that atheists do not cause harm to an industry that employs Americans. So please, atheists, lay low on this matter, too, and keep buying the fantastic products of Ford Motor Company.
Posted by: Matti K. | May 30, 2008 1:57 AM
>Many of us are able to find happiness in our lives without
>the need for self-delusion. If you can't, perhaps this
>(especially in light of your obsession with death and
>imagined persecution) points to a deeper problem.
Self-delusion? That is what denial is called now?
Just FYI, I don't have an obession with death. It is what it is. Just because you are too