…and this is a 
Portland, how could you?
Category: Weirdness
Posted on: May 6, 2008 12:53 PM, by PZ Myers
Portland, Oregon is a beautiful city and a great place to live, but hoo boy, does it have its share of wackos. The latest: some credulous nut wants to practice acupuncture…on the city. He has semi-randomly associated regions on the map with organs (the Willamette River is a kidney?), and is sticking giant acupuncture needles in the ground to shift the flow of chi.
I hope this guy does not get funding for such stupidity.
Comments
...Feng Shui folks are gonna be pretty pissed off if they mess up THEIR chi with misplaced needles.
Posted by: Michelle | May 6, 2008 12:57 PM
Is that any crazier than acupuncture one the body?
Posted by: scott | May 6, 2008 12:58 PM
We're not gonna make it.
Posted by: Alex | May 6, 2008 1:00 PM
Vancouver's getting aroma-therapy and a Chakra adjustment next week.
Posted by: UprightAlice | May 6, 2008 1:04 PM
More Northwest kookery: I'm currently in Seattle and I've witnessed LaRouchites with placards by Westlake Center, a 9/11 conspiracy theorist promoting the abysmal "Zeitgeist: The Movie" at Pike Place Market, and I've walked by (without realizing it at the time) the Discovery Institute.
Posted by: Jim Lippard | May 6, 2008 1:04 PM
Those pictures look photoshopped to me. But then again, maybe I'm just not cynical enough.
Posted by: Will | May 6, 2008 1:07 PM
Well, as a resident, I believe that this just shows that we're big enough to take a little needling.
Posted by: Spero Melior | May 6, 2008 1:07 PM
If those "giant acupuncture needles" are present when there is a thunder-storm, Portland will be treated to a session of electro-convulsive therapy. Yikes!
Posted by: MH | May 6, 2008 1:07 PM
Aw, man, does that mean my George W. Bush voodoo doll won't work?
Posted by: Slaughter | May 6, 2008 1:08 PM
Granted the acupuncture is kooky, but some of his other proposed projects look reasonable.
http://www.adamkuby.com/Proposals.html
The deer crossing and the tidal pools look good. I don't think the turtle blind would work. Others are just strange art projects.
Posted by: MikeD | May 6, 2008 1:10 PM
scott - yes, it is crazier. The evidence on acupuncture is spotty and not exactly clear yet, but at least in some cases it has been shown to be an effective treatment. E.g., try this review on chronic lower back pain:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15674876
Posted by: saurabh | May 6, 2008 1:11 PM
Well, that's just stupid.
OK, actually, the guy's resume shows he's an artist/sculpter. I pretty certain he's taking this on as conceptual art. Like wrapping central park in pink ribbons or whatever that was. Not as acupuncture for real real, just for play play.
Posted by: clear as mud | May 6, 2008 1:15 PM
Don't know how that's going to affect the 'health' of the city but I just rediscovered the healing power of laughing my ass off. Thank you for that post. I will carry the joy with me through the rest of the day. Namaste.
Posted by: LARA | May 6, 2008 1:16 PM
I think this is an artsy hoax. As #6, Will, said above, these are photoshopped images. The only one that is possibly real (meaning the bottom "needle" part and probably not the top "pink" part is in the first picture. The others that are poorly placed and poorly photoshopped images.
Also kind of funny, but a lot of fakucupuncturists use different colored needle heads for different parts of the body.
Posted by: LeeLeeOne | May 6, 2008 1:19 PM
Yeah, the good thing is that most of those photo-shopped pinpricks would definitely be disallowed. And I bet even the real one wouldn't last more than a couple months before fading and becoming ragged.
A joke's a joke, but this isn't even much of a joke.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: Glen Davidson | May 6, 2008 1:25 PM
Oh, please. This is just an art project. The artist is getting exactly what (s)he wanted with this attention. Awesome.
Posted by: Parrotlover77 | May 6, 2008 1:26 PM
Should have looked at the whole site - This guy's an artist. This is an art project and it looks like it is commissioned work to boot. So, more than likely some taxpayer money was spent on this in one form or another. Sheesh! But I still feel a lot of those images look fake/photoshopped.
Posted by: LeeLeeOne | May 6, 2008 1:26 PM
My impression was that the first needle was real, but that the rest were intentionally photo shopped to show how he would like to deploy other needles. He seems serious about it, but has only, apparently, gotten one needle in the ground.
Of course one needle or a million, human or earth, it's all a load of crap.
Posted by: Richard Wolford | May 6, 2008 1:26 PM
PZ, don't you recognize performance art when you see it?
Really, you may need to get out a bit more - grading tests is starting to remove the vital bodily fluids.
The real question is whether it's ugly or not.
Posted by: frog | May 6, 2008 1:27 PM
He says right there on the web page that only the first photo is real. He "digitally inserted" all the others (testing the state of the city's prostate, perhaps?).
Posted by: Ray M | May 6, 2008 1:28 PM
Ridiculous! It takes a degreed Metaphysicist to place those needles properly.
Posted by: Unspeakabley Violent Jane | May 6, 2008 1:29 PM
Deer (and other animal) bridges and tunnels have been in place in Banff national Park for several years now.
I think this is a wonderful art project, whimsical and provocative. We're talking about it :)
Posted by: Quidam | May 6, 2008 1:31 PM
This is the sort of feel good New Age silliness which is replacing traditional, yet also silly, religion especially in the UK and the West Coast of the USA. The tragic part is that because it is New Age it is tolerated as being enlightened whereas a giant jesus on a cross would never gain funding, and rightly so.
Posted by: Alex | May 6, 2008 1:32 PM
Actually, he says the first one is the only one that's been put in. The rest are the proposed sites with needles photoshopped in to give an idea what it would look like upon completion.
I looked at some of his other work. He's had some rather unusual commissions, like the amphibian habitats in Kansas City, MO with UV shielding on them, or the wind-powered light-up "vines" in Seattle.Sort of an eco-artist.
Posted by: Katrina | May 6, 2008 1:38 PM
It's all good and fun until someone gets their river poked out
Posted by: Eirik | May 6, 2008 1:43 PM
WHAT?!?!?! No more entries on the cyclone? Have you forgotten already, PZ? ;-)
Oh, the humanity!
Posted by: Quiet Desperation | May 6, 2008 1:45 PM
I'm with the it's an art project consensus. Playing into the acupuncture meme will get some weirdos playing attention, sure, and some will even take it literally -- but it's possible that a few views might be jolted out of mundanity, and general attention to some sites (such as locations of gay bashings or gang activities) might actually have a positive effect because of increased public awareness.
This is actually pretty damned clever.
Posted by: Warren | May 6, 2008 1:46 PM
Wow -- As a Portlander, I knew this project was poking fun at new agey mumbo jumbo from the start; it's fairly obvious, actually. PZ and his commentor minions are a bit too overzealous in ferreting out ridiculousness methinks. Let's not have our own witch hunts.
Posted by: Dave | May 6, 2008 1:46 PM
I hate it when the real world and comics meet: http://cectic.com/130.html
Posted by: Alex Besogonov | May 6, 2008 1:48 PM
Man, oh, man. It is obviously someone's public art project. Whether or not it is "good" art is up for debate, but is it any less artful than the Central Park Gates?
Posted by: Jeffrey Stingerstein | May 6, 2008 1:49 PM
Why does the liver have anything to do with sight? I mean, I'm not a woo professional (pwoofessional, woofessional?) or anything, but I can't make the connection.
Posted by: Mac | May 6, 2008 1:49 PM
This looks like a pretty harmless (not to mention pointless) art project. I don't think the artist is expecting any literal "acupuncture" effects.
Having said that, one of the proposed sites (second from the left on the map photograph) is disturbingly close to my house...
Posted by: Brain Hertz | May 6, 2008 1:52 PM
Alex: "The tragic part is that because it is New Age it is tolerated as being enlightened whereas a giant jesus on a cross would never gain funding, and rightly so."
The tragic part is that a giant, bloody torture victim in a public space is damn ugly, while a a white stick with a pink ball on top in the middle of a park is arguably aesthetically pleasing; well, no, the tragic part is that some people can't tell the difference between ugly and pretty.
Stop taking everything literally!
Posted by: frog | May 6, 2008 1:53 PM
I actually like this, I think its a nice idea. I am aware there are no secret "meridians" running in the ground of portland, but I think its a cool art project, and the message is also one I sympathize with: Thinking of the city as a body, its not science, but its a good analogy, I like art that makes you think, and this does exactly that. I dont suspect portlanders to pull together in some utopian group hug from this, but I think its a nice attempt to make people value their city as an inter-dependent system.
Posted by: BicycleRepairMan | May 6, 2008 1:56 PM
Jim Lippard, #5:
I walk past it nearly every day. Spooked the hell out of me the first time I noticed the DI logo on the door.
Posted by: Gregory Kusnick | May 6, 2008 2:06 PM
Come on. This is being done as a work of art. The photos are really interesting and I can see how they would bring attention to areas of the city. City wide works of art are always controversial, but often quite beautiful and interesting. Remember Christo's Gates in New York's central Park? http://centralparkny.com/christo/
Posted by: Michael | May 6, 2008 2:07 PM
I love how the kidneys represent DNA, because the rest of the body...doesn't have any DNA?
Posted by: moonwatcher | May 6, 2008 2:08 PM
Those needles aren't even NEARLY big enough. Build them to scale or don't build them at all, crazy artist guy!
Posted by: Drew Habits | May 6, 2008 2:10 PM
"By pinpointing Portland's health problems the project could increase public awareness of these issues, which may in turn lead to actual improvement's in the city's health."
Nice metaphor. I wish them luck!
They should stick a whole handful of 'em into the big white house in our nation's capitol.
Posted by: CalGeorge | May 6, 2008 2:13 PM
It's a pretty blatant joke, I think. Everyone, obviously, would think that acupuncture on a city is ridiculous, even if they think it works in the human body. Why not prove a point by taking the ridiculous and making it more so?
Besides, look at his point names. The proposed spot for a NW 23 Ave needle is dubbed "Too Rich", and the picture from the waterfront is called "Swimmable River." I, personally, would NEVER swim in the Willamette OR the Colombia once they've reached Portland (and, in the case of the Willamette, a while before it.)
And then you have the map where he locates Portland's various health problems, which are, for the most part, Portland jokes. There's arrows pointing to "Hipsters," "Wealth," "gay bashing" and "Reed College." The Reed one is my personal favorite.
It's hilarious, and definitely a spoof.
Posted by: Sangy | May 6, 2008 2:17 PM
Posted by: MikeD | May 6, 2008 1:10 PM
Yeah, I'm with you on this one Mike. This acupuncture thing looks more like an veiled, environmentalist, artsy statement about our current lifestyle, complete with the labeling of a KFC and a chocolate shop as areas of the stomach that need to be "improved," and characterizing our parking lots, roadways, and traffic as a digestive system in need of aid.
But on the page you mentioned, there is also a tab for the projects he has been commissisoned for, and they are two very decent additions to the city, I think.
http://www.adamkuby.com/Commissions.html
The bridge with all of its components labeled with their technical function is pretty educational, and the skateable entrance to the skatepark is just cool.
Posted by: brokenSoldier | May 6, 2008 2:23 PM
It's just art. Anything's kosher. Give him the funding.
Posted by: NP | May 6, 2008 2:34 PM
You got this one all wrong, PZ-- I think the artist is trying to contrast real-life problems with the dopey "cures" we often throw at them. Look at "Swimmable River" again... Photoshopped or not, the giant needle is an effective reminder that a REAL solution needs to be implemented to fix this body of water. The needle takes all that useless talk and political BS, and gives it a physical point of focus that is obviously worthless as a solution. I think this is great stuff!
Posted by: DaveX | May 6, 2008 2:39 PM
What #16 said. But you don't believe in God, so of course you don't believe in art, either. Just like John Lennon.
Posted by: falterer | May 6, 2008 2:40 PM
/headdesk
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbCHimp | May 6, 2008 2:44 PM
it's a large-scale artistic intervention.
as an art student, i'm on his side. stick those needles!
Posted by: alex | May 6, 2008 2:45 PM
The next time there is an earthquake in Vancouver, can somebody please submit a bill to the city for "geographic chiropractic adjustment?" Pretty please?
Posted by: Little Bald Bastard | May 6, 2008 2:46 PM
Of course it's art!
If it were real they'd just have got hold of a voodoo priestess and placed the needles pn a map instead.
Posted by: Sili | May 6, 2008 2:49 PM
They tried this in Seattle once, but accidentally ended up shifting the flow of chai instead. :3
Posted by: sudopod | May 6, 2008 2:53 PM
Hm, reminds me of a snippet I once wrote, trying to think the strangest thing a night-time radio could broadcast:
"Dark feng shui. Causes distress, panic attacks, breathing trouble, hallucinations... all just with the right placement of furniture and decorative items. Commonly used in waiting- and guest rooms."
Posted by: Masks of Eris | May 6, 2008 3:10 PM
Did it work? Did it work? Did it work?
Come on! I'm on pins and needles here, waiting...
...ok, I'll just leave quietly.
Posted by: Anon | May 6, 2008 3:17 PM
Taking this too seriously is mabye not the way to go about this. It's conceptual public art, it's supposed to make you think not advocate the practice of urban acupuncture. Don't you think there is just a bit of mocking in his tone, or possibly he just thinks this is a good way to point out the things that are wrong and need fixing in Portland by calling it Chi Flow rather than Fucked Up Urban Planning. (Not that I think Portland has too much FUBAR'd urban planning as compared to say, Maple Grove, MN my current residence)
Posted by: Jens | May 6, 2008 3:17 PM
as a BFA, my frist instinct was "sounds like an art project." the link confirms. those pics (second one on) are definitely photoshopped. this is just run-of-the-mill contemporary art weirdness.
if anything, it's probably a statement that bullshit won't really fix the city's problems.
Posted by: arachnophilia | May 6, 2008 3:19 PM
So Portland gets voodooed, but Seattle's losing the Sonics?
Posted by: chancelikely | May 6, 2008 3:24 PM
I live in Portland, and I would like to apologize on behalf of the nutters that live here. And there are LOTS.
PZ, you lived in Eugene - you shouldn't be the least bit surprised by this sort of whackjobbery here in Portland. It is a great city, but it's great largely in part because of the free-spirit radicalism. Sure, 99 times out of 100 that turns out to be moronic idiots doing moronic idiotic things, but that 1 time out of 100 they really get it right.
Posted by: Robin Zebrowski | May 6, 2008 3:28 PM
As a practitioner of Tai Chi and Aikido for 35# years and a teacher of Management of Assaultive Behavior in Psychiatric settings for 30 years, I am able to do a variety of Chi "tricks". This despite my not believing in Chi as a physical quality/entity.
Chi can be a "useful metaphor", in the same way that many wrong ideas can be useful.
In Physics/Chemistry, one is initially taught that an atom is "like" a solar system. It is not a correct idea; but is a useful metaphor as it provides a foundation for learning better, more accurate ideas.
Posted by: Jaycubed | May 6, 2008 3:39 PM
Bah. The man lacks vision; he's thinking too small.
Acupunct the whole U.S.A. Or even better yet, the whole planet. With detailed explanations for his choice of needle sitings.
Posted by: cicely | May 6, 2008 3:48 PM
The phrase around here is "Keep Portland Weird". This art project is certainly helping to do just that :)
Posted by: Jyotsana | May 6, 2008 3:54 PM
cue the "of course, we know it's a rectum" jokes.
Posted by: Nomen Nescio | May 6, 2008 3:55 PM
Well, he does have a few good points (no pun intended) -- "endless advertising" is a damned good match for "large intestine", since both are conduits for crap.
However, I noticed from his list that the city is missing a brain. Or at least the artist doesn't think that a brain is important.
Posted by: Julie Stahlhut | May 6, 2008 4:08 PM
Let's hope he doesn't want to give the landfill an enema.
Posted by: Niobe | May 6, 2008 4:12 PM
I love the big pink needles. What we need here in DC is someone to string 50ft bulbs of garlic on the beltway to drive the politicians away.
Maybe it's because I grew up near Mt. Rushmore (and Crazy Horse!), but I really like big, big art. A lot of Christo's stuff like Running Fence, for instance. A park downtown has a giant typewriter eraser sticking out of the ground -- one of those old disk-shaped ones with a brush. I wonder how many people who see it don't know what it is, or what a typewriter is.
Posted by: Bob Munck | May 6, 2008 4:19 PM
Yeah, acupuncture is dumb. And yeah, if you don't take, oh, five seconds extra and realize what this person is up to, this seems like complete nonsense.
Their point seems not to actually do acupuncture, but to put up huge, ridiculous acupuncture pins to point out what you may be paying no attention to.
"Why is there a giant pin next to the river?"
"Because it's too filthy to swim in."
One map on the website is marked with "police brutality", "gay bashing", and many other issues.
It's a silly idea to get people's attention in public this way, and I doubt it will get any more attention or funding than we're giving it now, but it's not a bad idea if its goals truly are just to raise awareness with high-visibility land markers.
Posted by: Will Von Wizzlepig | May 6, 2008 4:19 PM
I too think that PZ is unfairly latching onto the "acupuncture woo" and missing the fact that it is urban art. Acupuncture is just being used as a metaphor to highlight the city's history, highlights and problems. I say give him some funding.
Posted by: SteveM | May 6, 2008 4:21 PM
A joke is a joke...and to make a website SAYING you are going to do it and adding some fake pictures is comical, but actually doing it and spending money on it is absurd.
@ 33
You said "a white stick with a pink ball on top in the middle of a park is arguably aesthetically pleasing"
Pleasing to whom? I think the city would look atrocious with fakeupuncture needles sticking up everywhere....
Just because it gets a reaction doesn't make it good art...just look at WSU's technicolor heart. Ugh...I cringe whenever I drive by it.
Posted by: JRitter | May 6, 2008 4:25 PM
Bob Munck, #61:
Hey, we have one of those here in Seattle.
Posted by: Gregory Kusnick | May 6, 2008 4:31 PM
#64: You said "a white stick with a pink ball on top in the middle of a park is arguably aesthetically pleasing"
Pleasing to whom? I think the city would look atrocious with fakeupuncture needles sticking up everywhere....
First, I said arguably. Second, you just need to look up-thread to see people who are saying it does please them aesthetically --- but a crucified man on a giant stick in a public space is only aesthetically pleasing to vampires.
And a joke is never a good joke until it's been taken to far.. so lighten up, damn it.
Posted by: frog | May 6, 2008 4:35 PM
Okay, these pictures are obviously photoshopped.
I can't believe I'm the first one, but I'm calling Poe's Law on this one.
"Drive to consume: Large Instestine"
"Too rich: Stomach"
It's impossible to think I'm the only skeptic here.
Posted by: MikeM | May 6, 2008 5:10 PM
This is one of the links at the end of the AP article on the subject:
http://www.art.com/asp/sp-asp/_/pd--10036661/Expose_Yourself_to_Art.htm
From (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hvePeXZwBJ6XLfFPkyXIcS_7w80gD90FJRHO0)
Posted by: MikeM | May 6, 2008 5:15 PM
Portland, how could you?
Dude. I mean. Duuuuuude... What were you thinking when you asked that question...? It's Portland. How could you even ask that question? Seriously.
Posted by: Moses | May 6, 2008 5:16 PM
Actually Saurabh, its quite clear. It is entirely placebo. While "most" claim to follow the ancient texts on where to stick them, some don't, some use accupressure too, for which you will find dozens of different people all claiming that "different" pressure points will work to help lower back pain, or what ever ails you. At least on guy I know of used a trick where he placed a sterile bandage over the place the needles where "supposed" to be inserted, with a bit of plastic hidden inside. The needle **never** entered the body at all, yet the people receiving the "treatment" a) claimed they felt them, b) claimed to notice an effects and c) actually had reduced pain for the *same* amount of time as a real treatment.
It is complete bullshit, but like Thermasol, some people that should know better advocate it, and there *seems* to be a trend in the medical community to either ignore things that are of questionable worth, as secondary treatment, or just not give a frack. The disturbing thing being, at some point, if the trend doesn't change, we might find people being *sent* to useless medical centers, for altie treatments, when they *need* real ones, and by high level agencies, not just your local doctor, who maybe isn't the *top* of the class type to start with, and may just hold some strange ideas.
Posted by: Kagehi | May 6, 2008 5:38 PM
THIS IS HILARIOUS.
Posted by: Lethal | May 6, 2008 5:40 PM
@#10
Am I being an idiot when I think jetties are supposed to stay above the water? That's what they're for, right, to stabilize harbors?
So drilling holes in them to create tidal pools would create moist, uninhabited spaces. Plus really, really hazardous walking. Unless I'm wrong about jetties.
Posted by: valor | May 6, 2008 5:59 PM
#45 - Genuinely sorry, I forgot about Poe's law--#44 was intended to be a joke.
Posted by: falterer | May 6, 2008 6:06 PM
Sounds like more of a public art project/political statement than an attempt at some sort of civic "health treatment." Think of the guy with all of the "gates" in Central Park....
Posted by: Zonotrichia | May 6, 2008 6:17 PM
Come on. Sarah references a PubMed article that supports her claim that "at least in some cases" acupuncture has been shown to be effective, and you know of "at least [one] guy who used a trick." Tut, tut.
Sarah is not incorrect that "the evidence on acupuncture is spotty and not exactly clear yet" - a quick Google Scholar search will return a wealth of placebo-controlled clinical studies on acupuncture that - guess what - don't agree on a consensus. Some say yes, some say no.
All I'm sayin is, don't argue lazy.
And, I agree with above posters that giant art is cool. I live in Chicago, where "Cloud Gate" was revealed a while ago, to much fanfare - and promptly renamed "The Bean" by Chicagoans, because that's all it is...but it's also cool.
Posted by: J Daley | May 6, 2008 7:07 PM
Sorry, I meant saurabh, not Sarah. Don't type lazy, either, huh...
Posted by: J Daley | May 6, 2008 7:10 PM
I wish they had a spare needle to stick through the huge ugly Google Borg cube they dropped on my town. Stay weird Portland!
Posted by: Patricia C. | May 6, 2008 7:34 PM
This is just an art project. I doubt he really thinks he is doing anything for the city other than making people smile and trying to make a name for himself. Besides, it's Portland. This doesn't even register a 1 on the Richter scale of weirdness.
But even if he does believe it, I'd much rather prefer acupuncture needles than "Crosses for Christ" or some sort of obnoxious religious crap.
/native Oregonian
//lives in PDX
///Go Ducks!!!
Posted by: Bruce | May 6, 2008 7:39 PM
of course they're photoshopped, these are proposal images, not finished artwork. christo used to make the money to do his project by selling etchings of the proposal, this is the same sort of thing.
this is humor in art... sheesh...
Posted by: peter | May 6, 2008 8:25 PM
I'm quite sure it's not a joke; it's a real (proposed) public art project... but that doesn't mean it's not also intended to be ironic/satirical or to make you laugh.
Public installation art is somewhat like performance art: The public reaction is part of the project. I can only imagine the artist would be delighted at threads like this one.
My family was at Yale a couple weeks ago for their Bulldog Days program for admitted students (my daughter will be starting there in the fall [/ShamelessParentalBrag]), and while we were there all the buzz was about this bizarre senior art project. The student in question (who has since submitted an alternate project, in the wake of the controversy) seems to have deliberately created some ambiguity over whether she really did what she said she did, and even if she did there was some inherent ambiguity over whether she was ever really pregnant or ever really had any self-induced miscarriages. IMHO (and she hinted as much herself), she considered the public furor her project created to be the actual art, more than anything she actually did or planned to exhibit. Mind you, I'm not necessarily defending this particular project; I'm just pointing out that this sort of art is often intentionally more interactive than it appears on the surface.
BTW, I though Christo's Gates was really cool, if the photos and artist's sketches I saw were any indication. I desperately wanted to make it into the city to see it, but as so often happens, I was overcome by events and missed it.
Posted by: Bill Dauphin | May 6, 2008 8:26 PM
Posted by: Sven DiMilo | May 6, 2008 8:31 PM
Posted by: Stanton | May 6, 2008 8:34 PM
Having said all this, I also want to say that this guy is an idiot.
You don't correct a city's chi imbalance with acupuncture: acupuncture is for (living) people and animals. You correct the chi imbalance of geographical areas through feng shui and geomancy, or better yet, urban renewal. You can not perform acupuncture on a city because a city does not have skin, does not have bodily fluids, nor does it have internal organs, and most importantly, a city is not biologically alive, which is one of the major requirements for receiving acupuncture.
Also, to paraphrase what my teachers have told me, acupuncture is not a panacea, it is a part of a regiment of treatments to both treat malaise and illness brought on by imbalance, and to help maintain good health through strengthening balance.
Posted by: Stanton | May 6, 2008 9:23 PM
Well, I'm with you on urban renewal, but this guy is only an idiot if you consider metaphor idiocy! The whole project is based on using the human body as a metaphor for the polis.
I love all you scientists and rationalists who comment here, but FSM, can you be literal-minded sometimes!
Posted by: Bill Dauphin | May 6, 2008 9:35 PM
Yeah, that's the thing. If someone gets relief from pain, even if it's due to the placebo effect, that's still relief from pain. So you have several inherent conflicts from a fiduciary point of view: you don't want to ruin the pain relief for the patient. At the same time, placebo by definition doesn't meet the criterion of informed consent, since if you know to consent, it's no longer a placebo. And you don't want someone to waste their resources on something that doesn't work. But people do report that it works for them. And sometimes, conventional medicine doesn't have anything to offer in place of it. So it's a very tangled web of fiduciary conflicts that clinicians have to negotiate, that basic scientists don't have to worry about.
In the zoo literature, there is a case report of a very tame bear, Ursula, who was turned in to a zoo (forget which; will have to dig through my records to find it) after being kept as a pet and improperly nourished. She was partially paralyzed, and after conventional veterinary treatments failed, an acupuncturist was brought in.
Ursula saw some improvement after a course of acupuncture, not very much. But for a single case, you can't tell cause and effect--was it the acupuncture and massage that brought about the modest improvement? Was it regression to the mean? Was it being fed and taken care of properly for the first time? Was it the (literally) hands-on attention during the sessions (attention effect)? I certainly can't say.
Animals like it; humans like it--maybe it's just the focused attention from another person that helps, psychologically and endocrinologically (like promoting the release of oxytocin, which promotes feelings of love and well-being and connection). But that's not particularly specific or satisfying as an explanation, is it?
Posted by: thalarctos | May 6, 2008 9:46 PM
Sorry, but that is VERY unconvincing about any real effects of acupuncture. Unless the ancient Chinese developed strict double-blind tests and independent corroboration of trials, placebo is perfectly feasible to have worked for thousands of years. Another thing is, is there a record of which diseases it "cured", and how many people did NOT get cured at all (and also for which diseases)?
Ben Goldacre, last year when commenting about an acupuncture study with unsurprising results (the needles worked regardless of where they were stuck):
I think he's right. The article is worth a read.
Posted by: andyo | May 6, 2008 11:05 PM
Also, I think the money and metal that would be consumed by this guy's acupuncture statement would be better spent on actually fixing up the city.
That could be it, but, mind you, I'm only a month into my Oriental Medicine classes, so it will probably be a long while before I'd be able to understand the mechanics of acupuncture well enough to explain it in "Western" terms.Posted by: Stanton | May 6, 2008 11:06 PM
Here are some of those secret meridians... poking them with needles, I dunno, might not be such a good idea.
http://nwdata.geol.pdx.edu/DOGAMI/IMS-15/m68_pga.jpg
Posted by: Krubozumo Nyankoye | May 6, 2008 11:25 PM
I think this guy came through my town of Corvallis a few years back. He wrapped aluminum foil around telephone poles. Not sure why he thought this was important...
Posted by: George | May 6, 2008 11:29 PM