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PZ Myers is a biologist and associate professor at the University of Minnesota, Morris.
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Category: Religion
Posted on: May 10, 2008 5:32 PM, by PZ Myers
Richard Dawkins takes only 3 minutes to slam both and Cardinal Murphy O'Connor and his interviewer, John Humphrys for the false privilege given to religion. Listen and enjoy.
(TrackBack URL for this entry: )
Comments
Reason leads to killing people?
Posted by: Etha Williams | May 10, 2008 5:38 PM
And there we have it. One of the highest ranking and most "respected" of the UK's religious community spouting the same rubbish as the most literal fundies. Reason was used by Hitler, therefore reason is a bad thing.
I wonder if Richard Dawkins pointed at him and shouted "Godwin's Law! Godwin's Law! and then made a big L sign at the Cardinal.
Posted by: Scrofulum | May 10, 2008 5:43 PM
I saw Ben Goldacre miniblog it earlier. Glad to see Dawkypoo get room to rebut in the online piece as well.
Posted by: Sili | May 10, 2008 5:44 PM
I heard the original broadcast where the feckin' high priest traduced atheism, & I was very annoyed with the feckin' edjit's remarks, & that there was no one to respond to it. The next morning, one of my daughters, (who's moved in with us), heard RD, & she was really pleased with what he had to say.
I'm pleased that the BBC, (which has a religiot Director General), did redress the imbalance.
Posted by: Richard Harris | May 10, 2008 5:53 PM
John Humpheys is among the best of the BBC radio interviewers and it was fantastic to see Richard Dawkins control the interview the way he did.
Sometimes RD can be brusque; this interview took place early AM, perhaps he's best as a "morning person".
Direct, convinced and fearless: classic Dawkins - listen to this interview if you haven't already.
Posted by: David | May 10, 2008 5:54 PM
@#5 David --
Memes of Solace: The Rise of Unreason
"I'm pretty hostile"
Posted by: Etha Williams | May 10, 2008 6:01 PM
It's really hard to be effective in a three minute slot, so the pleasure is all the greater in seeing RD do it in such an accoumplished manner. Well done!
Posted by: Jeremy | May 10, 2008 6:09 PM
The rc church is highly motivated to distract attention away from their own role in WW II. If we only left them in peace so they could continue to molest little boys.. Lying for the holy trinity and that german zombie in his robe, not just for jesus alone. Asswipes.
Posted by: slang | May 10, 2008 6:12 PM
(...bloody spelling...)
Posted by: Jeremy | May 10, 2008 6:19 PM
interesting - in the second link on RD's page (the BBC news story), they quote the Cardinal as saying that the world is increasingly hostile toward religion.
I find it to be the opposite...the world, IMO, is increasingly aware and tolerant of a multiplicity of religions...at least those parts of it where Shrub isn't held in veneration...
of course, that does mean that tolerance for christian dominance in on the wane in the western world (and rightly so, IMO), but that would probably be the same thing as a general intolerance of religion to someone like the Cardinal, wouldn't it.
Posted by: CanadianChick | May 10, 2008 6:21 PM
Having now heard mr McMurphy-FitsConnor, methinks he coulda benefited from being limited to three minutes, himself. He does not come across at all well. And Humphreys didn't let him off easy either in my opinion. Pity he and Dawkins weren't in the same slot since now most listerners won't have had the chance to contrast and compare.
Also - since this forum has made me so aware fo xtianist projection - his shtick about "There are people in this country who want to ..." scares me rather.
Posted by: Sili | May 10, 2008 6:23 PM
Dawkins of course bang-on. Humphreys would never let a politician get away with so many unproven assumptions. He'd savage them and rightly so. And why? Because he is demanding they back-up what they claim to 'believe'. QED John.
Posted by: leeobee | May 10, 2008 6:33 PM
@#10 CanadianChick --
Rule of substitution: when an Xian dogmatist says "religion"/"religious," etc, substitute in "Christianity"/"christian."
When you believe your religion is the One True Religion™, it's easy to see anything that threatens the dominance of that particular belief as a threat to religion in general.
Posted by: Etha Williams | May 10, 2008 6:37 PM
I love how it always comes down to Hitler and Stalin. They must be #1 and #2 on every Christian's talking-points list. Cardinal O'Connor says Hitler and Stalin's dictatorships were because of "reason without faith," which is so far off the mark that it is laughably obtuse. Of course, I think what most all clergy have to say is laughably obtuse. Though, I have to admit, talking crazy in a British accent does lend him an aura of gravitas lacking from our oily American TV God-hucksters.
Posted by: UprightAlice | May 10, 2008 6:38 PM
He's soooo polite. He must of left his fangs at home.
Posted by: Moses | May 10, 2008 6:48 PM
So the good Cardinal thinks we must avoid reason at all costs? And this makes him good just how?
I like to see the apologeticist argument on that one.
Posted by: QrazyQat | May 10, 2008 7:09 PM
UprightAlice typed:
They must be #1 and #2 on every Christian's talking-points list. Cardinal O'Connor says Hitler and Stalin's dictatorships were because of "reason without faith," which is so far off the mark that it is laughably obtuse.
Absolutely, because Nazism (now neo-Nazism) and Communism are religions even if they don't admit it.
Posted by: Nova | May 10, 2008 7:10 PM
As Ken Miller has pointed out: "The ... claim that the theory of evolution is responsible for 300 million deaths is absurd and insulting. The murderous totalitarian states led by Hitler and Stalin were driven by ideologies of socialist utopianism, racism, and anti-Semitism, not by a scientific theory relating to the origin of species."
The barbarity of such regimes was made possible not because its leaders were atheists (Hitler wasn't an atheist), but because its leaders were granted unquestioned power and loyalty.
Posted by: Roger Scott | May 10, 2008 7:15 PM
@#18 Roger Scott --
IOW, because the people had blind faith in those leaders.
So much for "reason without faith." The real culprit was faith without reason.
Posted by: Etha Williams | May 10, 2008 7:23 PM
A related (but longer) recent talk, this one by Alan Sokal:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/audio/2008/mar/03/alan.sokal.podcast
Posted by: SC | May 10, 2008 7:35 PM
The really astonishing thing said by Cardinal Murphy O'Connor (in his interview with John Humphrys, which followed mine) was this:-
Note that this goes far beyond the usual blaming of atheism for Hitler etc. The Cardinal actually says that Hitler's regime was ruled by REASON, and that reason leads to terror and oppression. Not atheism, REASON.
Posted by: Richard Dawkins | May 10, 2008 7:36 PM
Listening to him completely control that interview was amazing. Especially considering how strong John Humphry usually is in interviews.
Listening to Dawkins always gives me inspiration and motivation to continue addressing the religious fundamentalists that surround me here in the bible belt.
Posted by: Amber Culbertson-Faegre | May 10, 2008 7:42 PM
It's very revealing that this man tries to make reason the enemy, it just showcases the complete moral vacuum in which theists operate to me. Apparently this man cannot make a reason based argument why the third reich shouldn't have killed all those jews and invaded the rest of Europe.
It's on par with the guy in RD's documentary where a faith school teacher explains how he would go and rape kids if his god wasn't there to hold him back.
Posted by: Dutch Delight | May 10, 2008 7:47 PM
Wow. We seriously live in sad times. Hey! Lets argue over common sense some more!
Posted by: andrew | May 10, 2008 7:58 PM
Addendum...
It seems only reasonable to petition the government to maintain a register for people like the cardinal. I'd can't be expected to take the word of someone elses god that they'll be a good person.
Posted by: Dutch Delight | May 10, 2008 7:59 PM
Dr. Dawkins, after reading about the Cardinal's statements a few days ago on the BBC News website, I couldn't help but think "I wonder what Richard Dawkins is going to say about that." I knew you wouldn't let that little outburst go unchallenged. I can only say well done sir, a magnificent rebuttal!
Posted by: Elwood Herring | May 10, 2008 8:01 PM
People have been conditioned into respecting faith simply because it is faith
Posted by: PeteKay | May 10, 2008 8:02 PM
Reason was used by Hitler, therefore reason is a bad thing.
Hitler had a nose, therefore you should cut yours off.
Posted by: BoxerShorts | May 10, 2008 8:04 PM
@#25 Dutch Delight --
Careful with that word. We all know that "reasonable" = Nazist/Stanlist/fascist/evil.
Posted by: Etha Williams | May 10, 2008 8:05 PM
I forgot already :P
I will enjoy informing the creotards when they appeal to their personal versions of reason. Although those usually boil down to arguments from personal incredulity.
Posted by: Dutch Delight | May 10, 2008 8:21 PM
Unquestioned faith in a dictatorial, judgmental, dogmatic leadership without reason. Seems to me O'Connor's religion and Nazi Germany/Stalinist Russia have more in common than the good cardinal would care to admit. Seriously, this cannot be his first interview. He can't possibly be a naif when it comes to arguing his side of the religion/reason debate, which leads me to believe he is unsuited to his high position in the church. If the world had more clergymen like Cardinal O'Connor, flailing for an enemy as ridiculous as REASON, then, just maybe, the believers would be less like mindless lemmings and begin to think for themselves.
Posted by: UprightAlice | May 10, 2008 8:36 PM
The world will be a better place when deceiving, pompous, religious jackasses like Murphy stop parading around in their pretty costumes spouting nonsense.
The house of cards will fall. Eventually.
Posted by: CalGeorge | May 10, 2008 9:07 PM
Church of Scotland to bring in mediators to quell disputes:
Posted by: jpf | May 10, 2008 9:32 PM
Of course, John Murphy misses the point altogether.
Posted by: JStein | May 10, 2008 9:40 PM
>And there we have it. One of the highest ranking and
>most "respected" of the UK's religious community spouting
>the same rubbish as the most literal fundies. Reason was
>used by Hitler, therefore reason is a bad thing.
Yeah, because Hitler was such a nice person and he didn't do anything wrong.
Are you people blind?
It is very dangerous to have a society like that.
You think "Reason" can be reasonable when you deal with people? People are flawed and they can turn reasonable into unreasonable in a heart-beat. You think just because they believe in science they will not use persecution and eventually do like what was done to Jews.
Your logic is broken.
Humans will act the way they do with religion or with something else, humans are humans and they react in the same way and it does not matter what the source is.
Posted by: Kenny | May 10, 2008 9:44 PM
>Reason leads to killing people?
People lead to killing people, reasoning plays very small role. Reason as you all call it will not stop a nuclear war from happening. People are flawed and will use science as an excuse to kill Christians who stand up against what is happening in the World.
I seriously can't believe that you people can't see that.
It's the simplest things that the people here just do not seem to understand.
Posted by: Kenny | May 10, 2008 9:48 PM
@#35 Kenny --
You completely missed the sarcasm, and in so doing, the point: Hitler didn't use reason. Fascist regimes such as those of Hitler and Stalin did not come into being due to reason without faith, but rather due to faith (in the leaders and in the nation-state) without reason.
Posted by: Etha Williams | May 10, 2008 9:51 PM
People lead to killing people, reasoning plays very small role. Reason as you all call it will not stop a nuclear war from happening. People are flawed and will use science as an excuse to kill Christians who stand up against what is happening in the World.
I seriously can't believe that you people can't see that.
It's the simplest things that the people here just do not seem to understand.
People don't lead to killing; people kill, and there are a lot of causes. However, that error was the closest you got to reality.
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | May 10, 2008 9:51 PM
Kenny: Get some help. Really.
Posted by: Rick R | May 10, 2008 9:51 PM
#36 Kenny spouted:
You have got to be kidding. Do you not realize that reason is solely responsible for not having nuclear war? I don't want to live in your world, Kenny. You keep it. What's left of it anyway, after it is cleansed by fallout.
Posted by: UprightAlice | May 10, 2008 9:56 PM
>The world will be a better place when deceiving, pompous,
>religious jackasses like Murphy stop parading around in
>their pretty costumes spouting nonsense.
Yeah, well dawkins' reason is really going to solve the problem of humanity killing themselves even without religion. Nothing pompous about that is there?
Posted by: Kenny | May 10, 2008 10:06 PM
"People are flawed and will use science as an excuse to kill Christians who stand up against what is happening in the World."
...what?
No, seriously. What?!
Posted by: BoxerShorts | May 10, 2008 10:11 PM
No, seriously. What?!
That's been a constant theme of Kenny's.
At least we're helping him suffer for his faith, good little martyr that he is.
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | May 10, 2008 10:14 PM
Fantastic!
As an aside. This type of spin is exactly what we can expect if the "framers" of science have their way. Nesbit etc. There is not any amount of reason in Stalin's stance. Also I'd like to add that the cardinal is out of his fucking mind. The seams are beginning to show.
Posted by: JamesR | May 10, 2008 10:19 PM
Did Dawkins claim to hold the holy grail that will solve humanities problems?
It's been said before, you should really get some help with all that projecting going on.
Posted by: Dutch Delight | May 10, 2008 10:19 PM
I cannot help but to wonder, at what point in either of their lives were either Hitler or Stalin lead by reason? It seems that both appealed to the irrational while making use of brute force. These were not the flower of enlightenment but the rejection thereof. Both are prime examples of the denial of reason and humanity.
Posted by: Janine ID | May 10, 2008 10:28 PM
Science clearly leads to killing people.
Posted by: James F | May 10, 2008 10:35 PM
Kenny, I do not quite understand your point.
Posted by: Crake | May 10, 2008 11:14 PM
Nice takedown by Dawkins but it really is pretty simple stuff! Many have tried it and many have prayed for Jesus to give the unbelievers some evidence so they can shuddup with the takedowns, but nobody ever prays for Jesus to stop throwing people into hell for eternity. Weird!
Posted by: 386sx | May 10, 2008 11:34 PM
Look who's back!
David Mabus "is that even a *REAL* name?"
Posted by: Sili | May 11, 2008 12:58 AM
what is it with all the sockpuppets this week?
Posted by: Ichthyic | May 11, 2008 1:01 AM
Kenny: You're a very special person.
Very special indeed.
I have a very special message for you.
You're a fool, Kenny. An utter, shameless fool. I've had it with you. You annoying little mosquito. You slithering slug. You brainless, writhing worm. You squalling infant. You mental amoeba. You crack-pated swine.
You're a complete moron. Take your asinine, paranoid persecution fantasies and put them back where they belong.
Sideways.
Twice.
Oh yeah, one more thing. You never admitted your mistake about the ACLU. You've had ample opportunity. I can only conclude that tou're a coward and a liar.
Ok, to be fair, there is one other possibility: you're too stupid to understand what's been said about it.
You're part of something big, Kenny. Yes indeed. You're part of the problem. Understand? You. Are. Part. Of. The. Problem. It's imbeciles like you who're dragging this country down, and you're too smugly ignorant to realize it. A pox on you.
Are you embarrassed yet? You should be.
Posted by: Kseniya | May 11, 2008 1:05 AM
btw, now that Kenny has invaded another thread, isn't it about time to just give him the number of a good therapist in his area and send him on his way?
where is it you live again, Kenny?
well, not important. you can google up a therapist in your area yourself.
try this one:
http://www.psychdirectory.com/
I mean, after all, you don't want to end up like David Mabus, right?
Posted by: Ichthyic | May 11, 2008 1:09 AM
You're a fool, Kenny. An utter, shameless fool. I've had it with you. You annoying little mosquito. You slithering slug. You brainless, writhing worm. You squalling infant. You mental amoeba. You crack-pated swine.
is it time to break out the shakespearean insults?
goody.
@Kenny:
Thou reeky tickle-brained lout!
Posted by: Ichthyic | May 11, 2008 1:13 AM
In the spirit of the mean, world hating, zombie of Big Science, dawkofascistoatheist that I am, I give you the END of Kenny.
over and over and over again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWe50DbqlX4
Posted by: Ichthyic | May 11, 2008 1:16 AM
Kenny! Shall I taunt you again?
You have issues. You are a liar. You are a coward. You keep running away from the real issues, to pop up in a different thread with the same "Science Suxxors" bullsh*t. Go away or learn something.
Reason leads *AWAY* from killing people. Reason leads to people "talking" and "compromising" and "working together". Faith leads to killing in the name of JEEEEZZZZUSSS!
You're just another liar for Jebus. And you've gone and upset Kseniya. (Crack-pated swine??? How novel! Can I use that one? I'll give credit!) Go away or we shall taunt you some more.
PS have you stopped all that masturbating yet?
Posted by: LanceR | May 11, 2008 1:17 AM
Thou gutter-born, yeasty-eyed rook-pie!
Posted by: Kseniya | May 11, 2008 1:19 AM
Thou encrusted boil on a donkey's arse!
Posted by: LanceR | May 11, 2008 1:20 AM
Re: Hitler and Stalin
I'm not a historian, but I have always interpreted the suppression of organised religion by authoritarian regimes as a straightforward effort to remove political opposition. Faith or religion seems like an irrelevant side issue.
Posted by: Hematite | May 11, 2008 1:21 AM
@#57 Ichthyic --
OMFSM, you killed Kenny! You reasonable, scientific bastards!
Posted by: Etha Williams | May 11, 2008 1:27 AM
Science leads to YouTube, thou jaundiced, unconjugated bilirubin!
Posted by: Kseniya | May 11, 2008 1:34 AM
We blinded him with SCIENCE!
Crack-pated swine??? How novel! Can I use that one? I'll give credit!
*psst*
Posted by: Ichthyic | May 11, 2008 1:34 AM
Thou tongueless dismal-dreaming minnow!
Posted by: Etha Williams | May 11, 2008 1:39 AM
Thou unwholesome long-tongued giglet!
Posted by: Ichthyic | May 11, 2008 1:40 AM
Apes to people,
Hobbits to Wombles.
It's all the same
Posted by: Randy Tomkirk | May 11, 2008 1:41 AM
wait, that one was pretty contradictory.
assume for the sake of argument that 66 came before 65.
carry on.
...Thou rancorous ill-bred puttock!
Posted by: Ichthyic | May 11, 2008 1:43 AM
Perhaps we should stop....
After all, it is a slippery slope. Today, Shakespearean insults; tomorrow, mass murder of Christians in the name of Science and Reason.
Posted by: Etha Williams | May 11, 2008 1:43 AM
Yep, but once you get the hang of it, you can make 'em up youself! Thou clay-eyed, incontinent fly-nest!
Posted by: Kseniya | May 11, 2008 1:44 AM
Shakespearean insults; tomorrow, mass murder of Christians in the name of Science and Reason.
*considers*
tomorrow, you say?
Posted by: Ichthyic | May 11, 2008 1:44 AM
@#71 Ichthyic --
Well, I was thinking of the time between today/tomorrow in the same way biblical non-literalists consider the "days" in Genesis, but....
Posted by: Etha Williams | May 11, 2008 1:49 AM
Today, "Thou roach-hearted, cuckolded slop-magnate!"
Tomorrow, "Get off of my lawn!"
Posted by: Kseniya | May 11, 2008 1:54 AM
You know, after all those 100% deaths, I bet Kenny's had his fair share of NDEs....
Posted by: Etha Williams | May 11, 2008 1:58 AM
#72, 55, 50
Canadian Bacon David Mabus is baaacccckkk again. You would think that this psycho f*ck would get tired of getting his ass kicked all over the Internet. It must be embarassing for any of his family to be associated with a loser such as this.
Kick'em again Dr. Myers!
Posted by: Jorge666 | May 11, 2008 1:59 AM
Is it just me or have the comments in this thread started to get a little...weird.
Posted by: -( | May 11, 2008 2:00 AM
NDEs....
NDE's nothin!
He's come back from full-dead at least 3 times I can think of.
now THAT'S evidence, baby!
Posted by: Ichthyic | May 11, 2008 2:10 AM
Aren't you putting the cartman before the horseshit?
Posted by: Kseniya | May 11, 2008 2:14 AM
we crush that little worm called myers
like this, David?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9F7GdRZvZkg
Posted by: Ichthyic | May 11, 2008 2:23 AM
Good talk by Dawkins, but - presumably because of time - it let Humphrey's off the hook a bit; the problem is not just that the cardinal believes in absurdities for which there is no evidence, it's that he not only believes in such absurdities, but that he is using those absurdities as the basis for making public policy. Humphrey's ducks the question by saying "it's what they believe", but precisely the same argument applies to politicians.
Posted by: Armchair Dissident | May 11, 2008 2:46 AM
Spamming #80, 72, 55, 50
Hey Dickweed,
You mean the Million Dollar Challenge that is still on offer?
http://www.randi.org/joom/challenge-info.html
So in your reality stopping something means having absolutely no affect
on it at all? That must make driving quite a fun experience.
Another Canadian kOOk or would Loon be more appropriate for this hoser, eh?
Posted by: Jorge666 | May 11, 2008 3:03 AM
like this,
DavidDennis Markuze?might as well get past all the sock puppets.
Posted by: Ichthyic | May 11, 2008 3:08 AM
see it is *TERMINATED*....FUCKERS
uh huh:
see?
you still have two more years to claim your prize, Dennis!
go man, go!
oh, btw, I think they mention you "by name" in that notice as well:
hey, that's you!
Posted by: Ichthyic | May 11, 2008 3:13 AM
O'Conner has gotten it wrong on both Hitler and Stalin. Hitler was openly religious while Stalin had conflicting policies. He suppressed some religious groups but supported others.
http://www.marxist.com/religion-soviet-union110506-7.htm
Stalin had irrational beliefs about science as the book "Stalin and the Soviet Science Wars" by Ethan Pollack describes.
http://press.princeton.edu/chapters/s8283.html
It sounds much like the Republican War on Science today.
Posted by: bernarda | May 11, 2008 3:45 AM
To the Spammer #86, 82, 75, 55, 50
Dear Dennis Markuze - former computer salesman - IP resolves to Montreal, Canada.
Obviously you demonstrate a great need for mental health care. I am under the impression that Canadian Health Services are covered under the Universal Health Care for Canada. You really should check out the following facilities that provide services for mentally ill persons such as yourself. Despite the evidence you present of severe psychiatric issues, I hope it is not too late. There may yet be a way back from your evident breakdown.
http://www.montrealtherapy.com/
1-800-THERAPIST network
Montreal Psychology Office
Obtain help for depression, anxiety, smoking cessation, relationship issues, and more...
http://www.psymontreal.com
If you are more comfortable in a French speaking environment
Luc Blain, psychologue clinicien
La vie est une succession d'événements qui amènent l'individu à les subir, à les nier, ou encore à les transformer pour les rendre digestes psychiquement. Dans le processus de transformation, la personne retrouve une plus grande liberté intérieure dans différentes dimensions de sa vie: capacité d'avoir du plaisir, d'aimer et d'être aimé, de s'épanouir dans un travail ou des activités.
http://www.lucblain.ca
Please don't wait - call NOW, the mind you save IS your own.
Posted by: Jorge666 | May 11, 2008 3:54 AM
The Cardinal does get it wrong. The longer tradition in Christianity, excepting for bits in Augustine (when he in a really bad mood), is to see that the good is the natural goal of reason. All people of good will can discover good through reason. Of course reason may be impeded in its search for its natural goal by ill-will, or evil (that being, strictly, a lack of good, not a thingy with cloven hoofs). People then do evil things with their reason. But it is because they abuse reason that they do evil, not because they have reason. Faith should support reason in reaching its goal... but as we so sadly see so often, religion (which is not quite faith) impedes reason as successfully as ill-will.
Posted by: BadeMart | May 11, 2008 4:00 AM
To the Spammer #86, 82, 75, 55, 50 and the booby prize for
#89
Dennis,
Well I tried. Talking to you is like trying to teach a pig to sing. It is really frustrating, and it just annoys the pig.
One of these days you might heal up from that big red letter L that you carved into your forehead for all to see. Being an Internet and USENET Loser is not the end all and be all of existance. I know you have dedicated your life lately to the pursuit of Loonyness, but one of these days you will have to turn a new leaf, err wing, whatever...
Your family must be real proud. I can't imagine any of them being seen in public with you. Oh the embarassment! Everyone knows Dennis!
Posted by: Jorge666 | May 11, 2008 4:11 AM
jorge,
oh, btw, guess what is inside Angel's envelope?
Posted by: dmjones | May 11, 2008 4:18 AM
To the Spammer #86, 82, 75, 55, 50 and the booby prizes for
#89, 92, 93, 94
Dear Dennis Markuze - former computer salesman - IP resolves to Montreal, Canada.
X-URL:
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/narcissistic-personality-disorder/DS00652/DSECTION=2
Signs and symptoms
Narcissistic personality disorder symptoms may include:
€ Believing that you're better than others
€ Fantasizing about power, success and attractiveness
€ Exaggerating your achievements or talents
€ Expecting constant praise and admiration
€ Believing that you're special
€ Failing to recognize other people's emotions and feelings
€ Expecting others to go along with your ideas and plans
€ Taking advantage of others
€ Expressing disdain for those you feel are inferior
€ Believing that others are jealous of you
€ Trouble keeping healthy relationships
€ Setting unrealistic goals
€ Being easily hurt and rejected
€ Having a fragile self-esteem
€ Appearing as tough-minded or unemotional
Although some features of narcissistic personality
disorder may seem like having confidence or strong self-esteem,
it's not the same. Narcissistic personality disorder crosses
the border of healthy confidence and self-esteem into thinking
so highly of yourself that you put yourself on a pedestal. In
contrast, people who have healthy confidence and self-esteem
don't value themselves more than they value others.
When you have narcissistic personality disorder, you may
come across as conceited, boastful or pretentious. You often
monopolize conversations. You may belittle or look down on
people you perceive as inferior. You may have a sense of
entitlement. And when you don't receive the special treatment
to which you feel entitled, you may become very impatient or
angry. You may also seek out others you think have the same
special talents, power and qualities ‹ people you see as
equals. You may insist on having "the best" of everything ‹ the
best car, athletic club, medical care or social circles, for
instance.
But underneath all this grandiosity often lies a very
fragile self-esteem. You have trouble handling anything that
may be perceived as criticism. You may have a sense of secret
shame and humiliation. And in order to make yourself feel
better, you may react with rage or contempt and efforts to
belittle the other person to make yourself appear better.
Further references available here:
http://tinyurl.com/2c9ypm
Posted by: Jorge666 | May 11, 2008 4:27 AM
To the Spammer #86, 82, 75, 55, 50 and the booby prizes for
#89, 92, 93, 94, and especially 96
Dear Dennis Markuze - former computer salesman - IP resolves to Montreal, Canada.
May I have your mailing address please there in Montreal?
Posted by: Jorge666 | May 11, 2008 4:34 AM
Been listening to John Humphreys for about 15 years and have never heard him so thoroughly mugged as by Prof Dawkins. For those not Brits and listeners to the Today Programme, there is a slot called 'thought for the day' where a faith head gets 2.5 minutes to seize on a news story, muse on it and twist some kind of theist point out of it. The sane amongst us think it has no place in a news and current affairs programme and needs dropping.
Posted by: Peter Mc | May 11, 2008 4:38 AM
To the Spammer #86, 82, 75, 55, 50 and the booby prizes for
#89, 92, 93, 94, 96, and the appropriately obscene 99
Dear Dennis Markuze - former computer salesman - IP resolves to Montreal, Canada.
I don't know why losers like you feel the need to make threats. It must be your deteriorating mental condition.
The observation from earlier still holds concerning the ego disorder. You need help and you're not getting it.
From earlier this evening.......
But underneath all this grandiosity often lies a very
fragile self-esteem. You have trouble handling anything that
may be perceived as criticism. You may have a sense of secret
shame and humiliation. And in order to make yourself feel
better, you may react with rage or contempt and efforts to
belittle the other person to make yourself appear better.
It appears you have a weakness for obscenity also.
Tsk, Tsk, too bad.
Were still waiting for that address Dennis. Be a good little kOOk and give it up.
Posted by: Jorge666 | May 11, 2008 4:51 AM
Great! I didn't hear Dawkins' interview (such "controversial" interviewees usually get put on before I'm up), and hadn't got round to downloading it. Humphreys has quite a reputation as a savager of politicians, but Dawkins wiped the floor with him.
FAO Kenny, and "Cardinal" Murphy-O'Connor, if he should drop in, some quotes from Adolf Hitler:
I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so."
-- Hitler 1941
"I go the way that Providence dictates with the assurance of a sleepwalker."
-- Hitler, Speech on March 15, 1936, Munich
"I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator."
-- Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 2.
"May divine providence bless us with enough courage and enough determination to
perceive within ourselves this holy German space."
-- Hitler, Speech, March 24 1933
"I would like to thank Providence and the Almighty for choosing me of all people
to be allowed to wage this battle for Germany."
-- Hitler
Even today I am not ashamed to say that, overpowered by stormy enthusiasm, I fell down
on my knees and thank Heaven from an overflowing heart for granting me the good fortune
of being permitted to live at this time."
-- Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol 1, Chapter 5
Posted by: Nick Gotts | May 11, 2008 5:01 AM
To the Spammer #86, 82, 75, 55, 50 and the booby prizes for
#89, 92, 93, 94, 96, the appropriately obscene 99, and Mr. Severely Mentally Ill #101
Dear Dennis Markuze - former computer salesman - IP resolves to Montreal, Canada.
Well, I guess the address isn't necessary after all. I am sure the Montreal Police's version of the Rubber Room Looney Squad has your address handy. From your atrocious behaviour here, you must be at the top of their kOOk list.
The good Dr. Myers will get around to deleting all of your posts in the morning anyway, and ban you again from this blog. You are certainly a glutton for punishment.
Posted by: Jorge666 | May 11, 2008 5:06 AM