…and this is a 
The funny part of a clown car is that the little clowns keep tumbling out
Category: Weirdness
Posted on: May 12, 2008 8:12 AM, by PZ Myers
And in keeping with that fine circus tradition, the Duggar Family is about to have their 18th child.
You know, they have successfully turned their freakish excesses into a profitable enterprise, but it really isn't at all sustainable — I think the superficial news market can only bear one amazing repeatedly distended vagina at a time, and if any of their children try a repeat performance it's going to be ho-hum, and profligacy in child-rearing will be just another symptom & cause of poverty, neglect, and ignorance.
Comments
Nine months between babies? WTF? It's really icky to think about, but he must be doing her as soon as she's off the delivery table.
Posted by: Nan | May 12, 2008 8:18 AM
There's a poster for this.
Posted by: J | May 12, 2008 8:19 AM
I thought this was pretty disgusting, myself, and that a cable network would encourage this kind of indiscriminate, excessive breeding is disgraceful. Naturally, the bunnies in question are very religious so that's 18 little homeschooled, reality-denying Evangelicals to help undermine democracy once they are of voting age. And mom and dad are fully prepared to keep popping more out if it's God's will.
Posted by: Wolfhound | May 12, 2008 8:21 AM
That's a lot of peanut-butter and ignorance sandwiches.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | May 12, 2008 8:24 AM
Wow, their thinking as truly finally tanked.
Posted by: Andy James | May 12, 2008 8:25 AM
People with more than two children should pay a tax for each one they produce after that to make up for the strain they put on natural resources.
Posted by: Umilik | May 12, 2008 8:35 AM
BLTDS sandwiches too!
Posted by: danley | May 12, 2008 8:37 AM
Children or carbon sinks? Hmmm...
Posted by: Mena | May 12, 2008 8:38 AM
I assume we've all seen Mark Morford's epic piece on this family?
Posted by: Bobby | May 12, 2008 8:42 AM
The eldest is shocked that a 17th sibling is en route? Did he miss the sixteen previous or something?
Posted by: Andreas Johansson | May 12, 2008 8:43 AM
Must be really sturdy clothes they buy to start with, getting handed down 8 to 10 times... (what is the sex ratio?).
This made the Aussie morning TV show I was watching this morning, and they thought it very, very strange (fundamentalism got a mention, as did home schooling..).
Posted by: Marc Buhler | May 12, 2008 8:44 AM
Damn it's 5:45am here, and I got 1 hour 15 mins more before finishing my shift. You guys are making me hungry! Enough with the sandwiches.
Posted by: andyo | May 12, 2008 8:45 AM
Sorry for the off-topic, but did anyone notice how the National Day of Prayer racecare did in NASCAR?
http://www.ndptf.org/press_room/Index.cfm?Entity=4&Department=4&Dept_Order=1&This_TopicOrder=1&This_SubtopicOrder=6
I heard 25 of 44.
Posted by: GBruno | May 12, 2008 8:55 AM
Those parents are certainly fond of the letter 'J'. Douchebags.
The father was a member of congress for the state of Arkansas. Go ahead and guess his name. Fucking Jim-Bob. I think the "fucking" part is just a knick-name his friends gave him.
Posted by: Schmeer | May 12, 2008 8:57 AM
Jinger? Seriously?
Posted by: MBL | May 12, 2008 9:03 AM
Hey, how about a tax credit for murder and suicide! And twice the credit if you use a resource that isn't consumed, like a knife, instead of a gun.
Posted by: Moses | May 12, 2008 9:05 AM
So, statistically we should expect, given that there will eventually be 20 children, that at least two will be gay, and two will be atheists?
Posted by: Patrick | May 12, 2008 9:06 AM
As always, it reminds me of the (apparently apocryphal) story of Groucho Marx on You Bet Your Life. There is a contestant on there who is a housewife with 11 kids.
GM: Gee, why do you have so many kids?
HW: Well Groucho, I love my husband.
GM: I love my cigar, too, but I take it out of my mouth once in a while.
To bad it's not true, but it is funny.
Posted by: Pablo | May 12, 2008 9:07 AM
I think Jinger is better than a name like Jedidiah. Those kids are going to need a large support group. Imagine an only child showing up to the ball field to play. "Your name is what? Were going to hang you by your underwear from that tree branch and then pick teams. Ok who is going to be the other captain?"
Posted by: Schmeer | May 12, 2008 9:08 AM
This family ( as most of those Quiverful idiots do) disgust me. Mumma pops out one every year and, by her own admission, has fuck all to do with them after about three months. At that age she "assigns" one of the elder girl children ( not the boys ,mind) to raise the baby. Nothing like servitude and enforced motherhood at the age of 12. Unlike boring run of the mill Catholics ( of which my family is) they don't even believe in abstaining to prevent children. Oh no, these freaks actually believe you HAVE to keep conceving to be into the godly way.
These dickheads are my particular bugbear and I have a real problem with the whole attitude they have. And screw anyone who says if they can afford it then let it be. Bollocks they can afford it. By their own admission most of their house has been donated ( in terms of materials and labour for building) and their clothing and vehicle.
There is no way ANY parent can give adequate time, attention and love to the individual child when there is 18 of them. These people are breeding for the most selfish and arrogant of reasons and, although I have spent far too much time and energy studying these twats and their lifestyle ( call it my personal project if you will), I'll continue to do so and continue to send emails to their website suggesting that a condom may not be a bad thing.
Posted by: Bride of Shrek | May 12, 2008 9:10 AM
says they're both real estate agents. if their money is in the housing market, we should be seeing a lot of little match-girls and paper-boys out there pretty soon.
you know, historically this rate of pregnancy is not too far out of the ordinary for well-fed post agricultural revolution human beings. women w/ 10-20 live births are not too uncommon among contemporary luddites (e.g. menonites), or among historical records about the petty nobility of medieval europe.
which brings me to the plague. traditionally, a lot of those live births would have died before year one, a fair number more before year 16 or whenever they themselves might breed. effect rate of replacement might be four reproducing offspring for each parental pair, maybe six if you're lucky, but not all 20. and what with losing 14 of your kids to the reaper, you get a bit maudlin and life-hating (as well as deeply anemic, if you're the woman, and very likely dead by early 40s).
it was a horrible life before vaccines, medicine, and stable food supplies. but that's the kind of life in which it made some (evolutionary) sense to pop out dozens of live births. after all, rabbits don't breed like rabbits because they love the intellectual challenge of child-rearing and the companionship of developing minds. they do it because most of the predatory world views them as protein-factories popping out delicious rabbitty tid-bits for noshing, and only excess production will ensure a few making it through).
in the contemporary context, there's really no excuse. it's mere selfishness. and yet they dress it up as god's will. selfishness masquerading as god's will? good lord--that must be unprecedented.
Posted by: kid bitzer | May 12, 2008 9:11 AM
And let me be the first to crudely comment that, after 17 kids, as Mr Shrek puts it, it'd just be like throwing a hotdog up a corridor.
Posted by: Bride of Shrek | May 12, 2008 9:13 AM
Just a reminder for the Duggars.
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | May 12, 2008 9:14 AM
People like these are a perfect example of why membership in VHEMT is a good idea....
Posted by: Vagrant | May 12, 2008 9:15 AM
Nine months between babies? WTF? It's really icky to think about, but he must be doing her as soon as she's off the delivery table.
No, she just found out she is pregnant and it has been 9 months since the last one was born. Further down in the article it says the kids average 18 months apart.
Posted by: SteveM | May 12, 2008 9:19 AM
I saw that the headline included "18 children" and thought, "They have gotta be homeschooled." And it was so.
Posted by: John Mark | May 12, 2008 9:20 AM
My personal opinion is that they like having sex too much that they cannot help it... and they use this "Pumpin` for God" excuse to justify it.
Excuse my language, but I really think it's a bit disgusting.
Posted by: Adrian Mos | May 12, 2008 9:20 AM
#22: "...after 17 kids, as Mr Shrek puts it, it'd just be like throwing a hotdog up a corridor."
That would be after 10 kids. After 17, it'd be like tossing a chipolata into the Chunnel.
Posted by: MH | May 12, 2008 9:21 AM
Reading through these people's story, the one thing that springs out for me is...obsession (though PTSD might describe it too.) The mother seems to have been traumatized by an early miscarriage (which they quite incorrectly blame on her being on birth control when she got pregnant) and they were recruited in their grief into one of these Quiverfull groups. Now she seems to have contrived to be as constantly pregnant as is possible for a human. Just look at how she describes the difficulty of surprising her family with the new pregnancy news:
"My girls watch the calendar like a hawk."
And we know full well who trained them to do so. It's damned near clinical OCD. Not that we should be surprised at that; Quiverfull has always been a radical movement that attracted the most damaged types. She's simply found those who will enable her obsession.
The one good thing about all this is that it will almost certainly breed a couple of died-in-the-wool atheists. Most of their kids will probably tow the parental line, it's true, but given the size of this particular population the odds are that some of them will be exposed to a world and ways of thinking that will break them out of the obsessive envelope their parents have created. Some might become more mildly religious as a result, but I'd bet that one or two will abandon religion altogether, especially if something breaks up this (apparently) tidy little family dynamic.
Of course, that may happen quite soon. Notice that the story mentions that the family's income derives from both parents being real estate agents. While they may not be experiencing the housing meltdown of someplace like Las Vegas or L.A., real estate is down there too, at least 10-15% in value and (as is true elsewhere) sales are off. Throw some serious financial stress into a pool of obsession like this family and you're likely to see an implosion. Not that I'd wish that on the kids, but then...I didn't, their parents did. I only hope the kids manage to survive this and escape the indoctrination (and implosion) relatively intact.
Posted by: Stwriley | May 12, 2008 9:23 AM
@21: 18-20 kids is still at the far end of the bell curve for non-birth-control families. I've done genealogy as a hobby for a while, and most of my rural kin from the mid-to-late 1800's seem to top out at 12-13 births, spaced pretty regularly every 2 years (give or take a few months) from a marriage at 20-ish to menopause. I've found some men who fathered closer to 20 kids, but all of them were widowed and took a much younger woman for a second wife.
I'd like to think of my ancestors as resolutely average, and the "2 years spacing" rule of thumb is considered pretty reliable by genealogists.
Even taking the two sets of twins into account, the Duggars must be going out of their way to conceive, even beyond "leaving it in God's hands" - or else she's proof of the idea that breast feeding suppresses ovulation, if she passes each kid off to a sister at 3 months, an option not available before the invention of baby formula.
Posted by: Cathy W | May 12, 2008 9:27 AM
#29--
yeah, the kids will survive the wreckage. most of them will turn out atheists; a few will dig themselves deeper into the delusion. the gay ones will write tell-all memoirs and have fewer children; several of the straight ones will have their tubes tied as early as possible. they'll all need a hell of a lot of therapy and deprogramming, but in the end they'll survive it all.
all except those little jackets with the bowties from majeff's #23. decades from now, they're going to wake up screaming about the little jackets and bow-ties.
Posted by: kid bitzer | May 12, 2008 9:30 AM
#30--agreed. i fudged it by saying "10-20".
you're surely right that 10 would be closer to the mean, and 20 would be more sd.s out.
Posted by: kid bitzer | May 12, 2008 9:33 AM
When Jim Bob says, "We just let the Lord decide," I just hear "Ia! Ia! Shub-Niggurath, goat of the woods with a thousand young, Ia!"
And why the fuck is his name "Jim Bob"?
Posted by: Dustin | May 12, 2008 9:34 AM
This makes my blood boil.
Families with more than one child should be taxed. When the world is overpopulated, breeding is not a right but a privilege; and not one that should be bestowed lightly.
I'd have no problem sleeping at night if this fat blob was given a compulsory abortion on my shilling. I just wonder where you'd find someone who could do the job without "accidentally" snicking her fallopian tubes during the process.
Posted by: AJS | May 12, 2008 9:35 AM
Cathy W @ # 30
Unlike other religions which "leave it in god's hands" the Quiverful mob actually do actively try and get pregnant as often as possible. It's not about actually raising the child, it's about just giving birth to them apparently.
If anyone wishes to have their eyeballs bleed from the glucose sweet photos ( although it is quite fun to read between the lines of the captions) try their website. Pay particular attention to the girl's outfits and hairstyles.
http://www.duggarfamily.com/aboutus.html
Honestly I'be been giving Jim-Bob and Michelle a reasonable amount of shit for a for years now so it's time for some of you other Pharyngulites to take up the mantle. Their email is their on the website, they've put themselve out there for public scrutiny - pass on the comments.
Posted by: Brid of Shrek | May 12, 2008 9:40 AM
When the Soylent Green factory goes on line, I say we make the first batch out of the Duggers.
Posted by: Dustin | May 12, 2008 9:42 AM
Bride of Shrek (#22):
Where I come from, the saying is "hot dog down a hallway". Alliteration, you know.
Posted by: Blake Stacey | May 12, 2008 9:47 AM
I did a blog post on this bunch when the last offspring appeared. (Click on my name).
Posted by: Archaeopteryx | May 12, 2008 9:47 AM
An organic Pez dispenser.
Pull her head back a tad and another one pops out.
Posted by: Fentwin | May 12, 2008 9:48 AM
I'll be charitable and call it r-selection.
Posted by: amphiox | May 12, 2008 9:49 AM
PZ, I really liked the title you chose for this post. so funny and so fitting. You have a great sense of humor!
Posted by: Bill Anderson | May 12, 2008 9:58 AM
Here is an essay that was written for Bitch a few months ago. As you can guess, the people in the Quiverfull movement reject all forms of feminism and are fighting the good fight in the cultural war.
Posted by: Janine ID | May 12, 2008 10:00 AM
First off, I'd just like to say hello to everyone. I'm a long time reader and a first time poster. I guess all it took was PZ using the words "Distended Vagina" in his post for me to break my lurk-i-tude.
Speaking of distended vaginas, at which number does labor become non-laborious? I'm guessing that around or after giving birth to child number 5 that the child birth became a breeze for her. Really, the kids must just launch out of her va-jay-jay like Pop-Tarts leaping out of a toaster with a bad spring.
Plus, the father's name is Jim-Bob? Seriously? That's just too perfect. A family of ignorant, Bible-thumping rednecks with 18 kids and the father is named Jim-Bob. 100% awesome.
Posted by: Clutch414 | May 12, 2008 10:03 AM
#42--
"like Pop-Tarts leaping out of a toaster "
actually, like blueberry pop-tarts.
with built-in digital calculators.
in accordance with the word of the lord,
"be fruit-filled, and multiply!"
Posted by: kid bitzer | May 12, 2008 10:09 AM
This scene from Monty Python's The Meaning of Life seems very appropriate:
Every sperm is sacred
Posted by: kikuchiyo | May 12, 2008 10:14 AM
This is heartening news. We need these children to push Homo sapiens back from the brink of extinction. Praise God!
Posted by: Kseniya | May 12, 2008 10:16 AM
Some groups have an extremely pronatalist ethos.
The Hutterites are one of these.
The Impact of Maternal Age and Ovarian Age on Fertility by Steven D. Spandorfer, M.D., October 12, 2003, InterNational Council on Infertility Information Dissemination:
"the birth rate of the Hutterites is one of the highest on record, with an average of 11 live births per married woman."
The Palestinians are another. Pro-natalist attitudes are fostered as a political duty during the ongoing conflict with Israel.
"Last week, Newsweek-Washington Post's Lally Weymouth interviewed Hamas's new prime minister, Ismail Haniyeh, by phone in his home in the refugee camp where he lives with his wife and 12 children in Gaza."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/24/AR2006022402317_pf.html
In traditional societies these extremes are far less likely to occur, for a number of reasons. First, long breastfeeding periods and high energetic loads suppress female fertility. Second, if children were born too close together the older would often die from early weaning. The nutritional disease kwashiorkor means 'the rejected one.'
However, all humans have far more reproductive potential than do great apes, with shorter birth intervals. Because of this, humans can recover quickly from reproductive crashes and colonize new environments. In fact, humans are remarkable fecund and invasive for a large-bodied, high-investing (in each offspring), and long-lived species. (For example, see Hill and Hurtado, Ache Life History, 1994)
But with less capricious mortality and enhanced ability to invest in the resource-acquiring potential of offspring, fertility predictability declines in most populations around the world. Therefore the best hope for drastically reducing human population growth and perhaps shrinking human population is not the rise in Malthusian parameters (hunger, disease) - for one, these are ineffective for humans in the long runs - but to ensure better standards of living and education for people everywhere. I would place special emphasis on drastically reducing the prevalence of infectious diseases from HIV to bilharzia.
Posted by: Colugo | May 12, 2008 10:17 AM
Speaking of distended vaginas, at which number does labor become non-laborious?
It does not. My mother was was pregnant ten times with eight live births. A couple of those birth were actually "easy" births. But her last pregnancy came close to killing her. She was bed ridden for almost three months and toke an other three months for her to get back to full strength.
Giving birth is so full of dangers that it never gets any easier. Please check on what birthing was like before there was modern medicine. Medicine done more to ease life for mothers then god ever did.
Posted by: Janine ID | May 12, 2008 10:19 AM
Clearly all youall are just envious of their high simple Darwinian fitness. Chuckle!
Posted by: Jim Thomerson | May 12, 2008 10:19 AM
My wife lived near a family that had 17 kids, I think it was. They had to have two houses next door to each other to hold them all.
However, they didn't get everything free like these a-holes do. They actually supported the kids by hardwork, and not by religious PR. Their kids went to public school (I met one of them who was about my wife's age).
They were catholic.
Posted by: Pablo | May 12, 2008 10:20 AM
The Duggars are living proof of my assertion that babies are cheap and well-raised kids are expensive. I hear that they get a lot of stuff donated to them, likely by virtue of having a huge family, which ticks me off to no end. I keep thinking that a more realistic attitude to take would be, "So you got knocked up again. What do you want, a cookie?!"
My Inner Fascist says that she hopes that when Mrs. Duggar starts losing teeth and height from constant pregnancy (the conventional wisdom, pre-near-universal birth control used to be "one tooth per child," which wouldn't leave Mrs. Duggar with enough teeth to eat an unsliced apple), her doctor tells her exactly why she needs dentures and has osteoporosis.
Then again, I'm one of these committed nulliparas -- you couldn't pay me enough to gestate one, let alone eighteen, so I'm definitely biased.
Posted by: Interrobang | May 12, 2008 10:22 AM
AJS @34. Why pick on the woman? It takes two, IIRC.
Posted by: Una | May 12, 2008 10:28 AM
I'm sure the kids are mostly nice. I'm sure some of them are wondering how weird their parents must be.
Of course, there will be folks who will take us to task for wishing that most of these children did not exist, as if critics of the Duggars have some special animus toward the youngsters. Those folks should stop reading this blog because they're obviously neglecting their procreational responsibilities. (Don't you realize you're preventing another adorable child from coming into the world every time you skip an opportunity for sex! Why do you hate children so much?)
Posted by: Zeno | May 12, 2008 10:28 AM
"You've had 18 abortions? Good for you! It's your choice!"
"You've had 18 children? WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU??? ARE YOU SOME FUNDAMENTALIST NUTCASE??? IT'S A VAGINA, NOT A CLOWN CAR!!!"
Frickin' hypocritical choicers.
Posted by: jsn | May 12, 2008 10:30 AM
jsn, ever hear of condoms? maybe one day when you're older, i'll tell you about them
Posted by: Dennis N | May 12, 2008 10:32 AM
At least these kids will grow up knowing that unprotected sex=babies. A useful life lesson I think.
Posted by: maxi | May 12, 2008 10:37 AM
Nobody would be cheering her on if she had 18 abortions.
Nice try at creating a strawman, moron.
Posted by: Clutch414 | May 12, 2008 10:38 AM
"You've had 18 abortions? Good for you! It's your choice!"
Ever seen anyone say this? Ever?
jsn making shit up. What are the odds that a right-wing fuckwit would do something like that? I'm stunned I tell ya. Stunned.
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | May 12, 2008 10:39 AM
Dennis N, ever hear of the choice not to use condoms?
Posted by: jsn | May 12, 2008 10:49 AM
@ Una
You're right, of course. Pass me a couple of house bricks -- and this time, I must remember to keep the thumbs on the outside!
Posted by: AJS | May 12, 2008 10:52 AM
Ever hear of overpopulation? Pregnancy risks? Proper parenting? Responsibility? STDs? Do you have any good reason why condoms are a bad choice that should be avoided?
Posted by: Dennis N | May 12, 2008 10:53 AM
Oh, you certainly may not outwardly cheer such a thing on, but you most certainly would defend a woman's right to choose to have 18 abortions. Six of one, half-dozen of the other.
Of course, having 18 children is a lot safer than having 18 abortions.
Posted by: jsn | May 12, 2008 10:53 AM
Yes, kikuchiyo #44 Monty Python is perfect here.
In fact I think there are few occasions that could not benifit from a dose of Monty Python.
This is truly absurd. And a little disgusting. Regardless of how cute some of those little buggers are.
I hate that icky feeling of self-righteousness the couple seem to exude. All they did was have a ridiculous amount of kids.
Posted by: Serena | May 12, 2008 10:54 AM
Hardly the same thing. I defend your right to be an utter berk, but it doesn't mean I'm cheering you on.
Posted by: MartinM | May 12, 2008 10:54 AM
jsn, how about not getting pregnant? It's not a choice between abortion or having the child. They know ahead of time that sex leads to babies.
Posted by: Dennis N | May 12, 2008 10:55 AM
Of course, you have the statistics to back this up?
Posted by: Iain Walker | May 12, 2008 10:56 AM
Posted by: Dustin | May 12, 2008 10:57 AM
#61
has anyone here suggested picketing the ob-gyn clinic at which she gave birth?
has anyone here suggested passing legislation making it a crime for her to give birth?
has anyone here agitated for murdering ob-gyns who deliver live-births, and then shot and killed her ob-gyn from an ambush?
no?
then could we have better trolls, please?
asshole.
Posted by: kid bitzer | May 12, 2008 10:57 AM
Sure. Prove to me that the U.S. is overpopulated. Prove to me that this woman is facing untreatable pregnancy risks. Prove to me that this couple is not practicing proper parenting (claiming 18 kids is not proper parenting doesn't count). Prove to me they're being irresponsible (ditto on the last one). Prove to me they're risking STDs.
Where the hell did I say anything of the sort? Looks like you can't own up to your hypocritical stance regarding choice, so you're going on the attack against me and creating arguments that I never used. (Gosh, a libtard being dishonest? Who'd have thunk it)
Posted by: jsn | May 12, 2008 10:59 AM
Blake Stacey and Bride of Shrek, how about "throwing a hotdog up High Street"? I think that was from Trainspotting.
Posted by: Hematite | May 12, 2008 11:02 AM
I didn't bring up abortion, and I never stated my stance on it. This story has nothing to do with abortion.
Posted by: Dennis N | May 12, 2008 11:04 AM
There have been no formal studies that I can find, but do searches for medical information on the risks of having multiple abortions and of having multiple pregnancies and you'll find a lot more warnings about abortions than pregnancies.
Posted by: jsn | May 12, 2008 11:06 AM
This story has nothing to do with abortion.
Silly. Everything is about abortion.
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | May 12, 2008 11:06 AM
I recall hearing that he had to strap a 2x4 across his ass so he wouldn't fall in. (lame old joke from sometime Back In The Day)
Posted by: True Bob | May 12, 2008 11:06 AM
jsn, here's how it would go in real life.
BOOB: I've had 18 abortions!
LIBERAL: What the hell!!?? Are you a moron? Haven't you heard of birth control?
BOOB: Jim-Bob doesn't like condoms.
LIBERAL: Then go on the pill! Or get a diaphragm and spermicide!
BOOB: You're a hypocrite! You don't want me to choose!
LIBERAL: Yeah, it's your choice, and your choice makes you an idiot.
jsn, you're a disingenuous, lying creep. And you know very well there's a difference between "You have that choice", and "I think that's great!" Viz. people can start their own Nazi party, that's their choice. And I'm free to call them a bunch of racist fuckwits WITHOUT stifling their freedom of political activity. Likewise, a woman can have 18 abortions if she wants, and I'm free to criticise her actions without banning them. You seem to have no idea of the concept of disagreeing with a person without simultaneously repressing them and restricting their freedom of action. It's a dangerous situation.
BTW: 18 abortions performed by a doctor in a clinical setting are actually *safer* for a woman than 18 pregnancies.
Posted by: Hairhead | May 12, 2008 11:09 AM
@ jsn #58
Sorry but if you are looking for a battle of the wits here I have to tell you you have brought a knife to a gun fight.
Posted by: Feynmaniac | May 12, 2008 11:11 AM
No, fools, it has to do with your sacred cow of "choice." If you truly believed in "a woman's choice," then you have no business berating this woman on her's just as you would argue that I have no business berating another woman for choosing to have multiple abortions. If you want to defend "choice," then you must also defend and not ridicule "choice" that disagrees with your personal views. But, of course, we all know that when you refer to "choice," all you really care about is abortion, and this issue proves it.
Posted by: jsn | May 12, 2008 11:12 AM
jsn, what is your point, exactly? There are lots of ways not to have kids - condoms, hormonal birth control, NOT HAVING SEX (which the religious people seem inordinately fond of), timing sex not to coincide with fertile periods (which kind of works, sometimes), breastfeeding to suppress ovulation (which works quite well, if you don't hand off your kid to an older one to take care of at the 3 month mark the way Michelle Duggar does). Not having lots of kids =/ having lots of abortions. I think you need a good sex ed class.
Posted by: Carlie | May 12, 2008 11:12 AM
Posted by: Janine ID | May 12, 2008 11:12 AM
I recall hearing that he had to strap a 2x4 across his ass so he wouldn't fall in. (lame old joke from sometime Back In The Day)
Posted by: True Bob | May 12, 2008 11:13 AM
Yikes! I forgot to close off the blockquote.
Posted by: Janine ID | May 12, 2008 11:14 AM
No one was defending choice. It was never mentioned until you came along. She has the choice to take birth control. Or to make Jim-Bob use condoms.
Posted by: Dennis N | May 12, 2008 11:14 AM
Oh, please. Many of the attitudes here go well beyond simply disagreeing with this couple's choice and you know it.
Posted by: jsn | May 12, 2008 11:17 AM
Because women and children so very rarely died from childbirth. Because women to so finely designed to pass that baby through the pelvic region. That was some great engineering there.
Posted by: Janine ID | May 12, 2008 11:18 AM
#53 jsn: Begone, foul troll.
Posted by: Ray C. | May 12, 2008 11:22 AM
I wonder if she can remember all their names.
It's not like giving them ones that all start with J helped any...
Posted by: Ryan F Stello | May 12, 2008 11:22 AM
If you want to defend "choice," then you must also defend and not ridicule "choice" that disagrees with your personal views. But, of course, we all know that when you refer to "choice," all you really care about is abortion, and this issue proves it.
Ah, but no. I defend her right to have 18 children. Hell, she'll be fertile for a few more years, she'll probably end up with 21 or so. That's entirely her decision, especially since they are not taking public money for raising them (except for the tax breaks). Just because she has the right to have them, though, doesn't mean I can't criticize her decision. Exactly like Hairhead said, exactly like kid bitzer said. And really, I think I can say that all of us prefer birth control to abortion, simply because abortion is a procedure that is hard on the woman having one (although not nearly as hard as pregnancy). Have you noticed that anti-choice people are also against birth control? Ever wonder why that is?
Posted by: Carlie | May 12, 2008 11:29 AM
Oddly enough, I have a friend in the US who also has 17 siblings. Her parents are indeed religious (Eastern orthodox, I believe), but as far as I can tell, they were all able to get by decently, other than very long bathroom lines. My friend and at least one of her brothers also turned out to be rather competent geeks, what with the passion for Final Fantasy, Battlestar Galactica and World of Warcraft.
I don't think they were religiously-guided in having that many children (I didn't inquire too deeply as...well, I'm fond of her and wouldn't want to put her family under a microscope); some people just genuinely like large families. they also don't beg for media attention as the Duggars do, which I consider a good thing.
Posted by: F. Jardim | May 12, 2008 11:35 AM
I have a proposal to be considered while we entertain jsn's education in Christian Rhetoric (he's got a B so far.)
They've got 17 J's on the ground. (I'm reminded of Will Hunting rattling off his 12 imaginary brothers.) What J will they think of next? Maybe we can suggest a few. Don't forget to account for twins...they're at an increased incidence already.
They got a Judas yet?
ice
Posted by: ice9 | May 12, 2008 11:36 AM
Jeorgina
Posted by: Amanda | May 12, 2008 11:38 AM
Jasper?
Posted by: Clutch414 | May 12, 2008 11:42 AM
As Hairhead has said, I think anyone who had 18 abortions would be getting the same crap. See my Groucho Marx line above: "I love my cigar, too, but I take it out of my mouth once in a while."
If I met/heard of someone who had 18 abortions, I would say the same thing: haven't you ever heard of birth control?
By the time you have your 15th pregnancy, abortion or not, you have a pretty good idea of what is causing it. Perhaps you should stop?
Posted by: Pablo | May 12, 2008 11:44 AM
Anything with a J in place of a soft "G." When I first read Jinger's name, I thought it rhymed with "singer," and was really unimpressed...
Posted by: Amanda | May 12, 2008 11:46 AM
Amanda, you can continue to be unimpressed - they have a Jana, a Johanna, and a JoyAnna. Not only can they not think of decent girl J names (Julia, Juliet, Josephine?) they keep using the same ones over and over.
Posted by: Carlie | May 12, 2008 11:51 AM