…and this is a 
What if they wouldn't sell cars to uppity blacks, Jews, and women?
Category: Godlessness
Posted on: May 26, 2008 7:18 AM, by PZ Myers
A Ford dealership is taking a novel approach to advertising: by telling a small subset of their potential customer base to shut up.
But did you know that 86% of Americans say they believe in God? Since we all know that 86 out of every 100 of us are Christians, who believe in God, we at Keiffe & Sons Ford wonder why we don't tell the other 14% to sit down and shut up. I guess maybe I just offended 14% of the people who are listening to this message. Well, if that is the case then I say that's tough, this is America folks, it's called free speech. None of us at Keiffe & Sons Ford are afraid to speak out. Keiffe & Sons Ford on Sierra Highway in Mojave and Rosamond, if we don't see you today, by the grace of God, we'll be here tomorrow.
One sad thing about that is that it is probably effective, and I would be unsurprised if the ad is doing well for them. The dealership is in a conservative part of California (Mojave), and I suspect the area has fewer than 14% in the group they've just kicked to the curb. In addition, the ad probably simply reinforces in-group loyalty for the dominant Christian audience.
Oh, well. There's not much we can do, except boycott Kieffe and Sons Ford, and heck, boycott Ford altogether — Ford seems unconcerned about the fact that one of their dealerships is using bigotry to sell cars. You could also write to Kieffe and Sons, although they've already announced that they don't give a damn about your opinion. If you do write, though, be polite.
I know we're going to be in the market for a new car in the next few years. It won't be a Ford. There was no risk that I'd be going to Mojave, California to pick it up, though.
Politics
Comments
I boycott any garage that has one of those fish logos on it (unless it's the one with legs and Darwin written in it). As an avowed secularist (I think it's the only way to ensure interfaith harmony), I object to religion in the public domain. It's one thing for individuals to wear religious symbols; it's quite another for businesses to espouse a particular religion.
As an uppity Pagan, and therefore one of that 14%, I object strongly to this garage's stance.
Posted by: Yvonne | May 26, 2008 7:25 AM
"But did you know that 86% of Americans say they believe in God? Since we all know that 86 out of every 100 of us are Christians."
Yeah.. thats not true, believing in god isn't being christian. He kinda exluded muslims, jews and a whole lot others.
Posted by: Dutch Vigilante | May 26, 2008 7:28 AM
If his forecourt gets trashed by an Act of God™, I hope he has the good grace to sit down, shut up and not claim on the insurance.
Posted by: Ast | May 26, 2008 7:30 AM
it's called free speech
Not being a native speaker, I learn a lot at this site. So telling 1/7 of the population to "sit down and shut up" is typically what supporters of Free Speech would say.
BTW, what is true of that story about Henry Ford and the Nazis?
Posted by: amph | May 26, 2008 7:34 AM
"Since we all know that 86 out of every 100 of us are Christians, who believe in God, we at Keiffe & Sons Ford wonder why we don't tell the other 14% to sit down and shut up. I guess maybe I just offended 14% of the people who are listening to this message. Well, if that is the case then I say that's tough, this is America folks, it's called free speech. "
Free speech means telling people who don't believe in god not to speak freely? I'm confused.
Posted by: Jonathan | May 26, 2008 7:34 AM
amph,
From the Wikipedia page on The Protocols of the Elders of Zion:
The story was told in somewhat more depth recently in a PBS series - something like "The Jews in America."
Posted by: SC | May 26, 2008 7:42 AM
BTW, what is true of that story about Henry Ford and the Nazis?
Ford was a supporter and admirer of the Nazis, had the "protocols of the elders of zion" translated into German, funded the Nazi party during the 1920s when it was just another lunatic fringe party (possibly keeping it from dissolving for lack of funds), and helped invade Poland. If you won't buy Mercedes or Volkswagen because of their Nazi past, don't buy Ford either. GM was also involved. Chrysler has merged with Mercedes. Hmm...I hear the Japanese make nice cars...er, no, never mind. Ah, just dump the FSM-damned car altogether.
Posted by: Dianne | May 26, 2008 7:47 AM
Businesses like car dealerships are privately owned entities, and so they do have a right to do stuff like this. But I still think it's asinine.
Posted by: Sloan | May 26, 2008 7:50 AM
Don't buy Renault either in this case -- it was nationalized post-war to punish the Renault family for having been collaborationists.
But this story of Big Car Factories being pals with various fascist movements in the twenties and thirties is no surprise (don't know about Fiat however), as the big corporations generally sponsored a movement that was effective in preventing syndical action -- the Red Fear was high back then.
Well, this leaves Lada as a safe bet. :-)
Posted by: Jérôme ^ | May 26, 2008 7:54 AM
None of us at Keiffe & Sons Ford are afraid to speak out.
Ah, the courage to speak out on behalf of the overwhelming majority to seek to silence the minority, for the purpose of pushing an ecologically-disastrous product on behalf of a giant corporation. A fine example of bravery in the US. My country, 'tis of thee...
Posted by: SC | May 26, 2008 8:01 AM
Another reason to steer away from Ford is the reckless decision they made to close the plant in St. Paul. The plant has the highest productivity of all of their North American plants, it has a dam that Ford built to supply their hydroelectric power (on the Mississippi,) and it was building small trucks which get better gas mileage than their big ones.
While they were deciding to close, I sent them letters explaining that since they have a backlog of demand for the Escape hybrid, they could easily re-tool this plant to build them (since the Rangers and the Escapes share a platform.) No response.
American manufacturers are clueless. They keep building these big trucks that get horrendous mileage, while they should have noticed back in the 1970's that we were going to come to this energy awareness soon. Instead they built a few small cars for a few years and then went back to larger and larger.
Back to the original story. When I see the stores with the fish, I tend to avoid them. It's certainly their right, but I sure get suspicious of them. Putting up a sign like that tells me that perhaps their parts and service aren't so great and that they draw in "people like us."
"Well, dear, we could save $50 buying the Fridge at 'Appliances R Us.'"
"Yes, I know, but we don't know what religion those people are. I think we should buy from that nice young man who isn't afraid to tell the world he is a Christian. He's got a family to feed, you, know."
Silly way to make a purchase, decision, I know. But consider this. Q. Cumbers restaurant advertises on our radio show, and so the crew often heads over for the "Intellgently Designed Salad Bar" after the show on Sundays. Mickey, the owner, is an atheist and a regular commenter at Richarddawkins.net. He told us one morning that he had a family that were regular customers. They had been coming in for brunch at least once a month after Church. He talked to them often, as he is a gregarious and friendly fellow.
One Sunday morning, the father of the family said "Mickey, you are always so energetic and cheerful. You must be a Christian."
Mickey told the guy that he is, in fact, an atheist. And the family has never come back to his restaurant.
I wasn't planning on traveling to the Mojave to buy a Ford, anyway, but count me among those who are boycotting that dealership.
Posted by: Mike Haubrich, FCD | May 26, 2008 8:02 AM
It is hard to imagine that letters to them would help, but letters to the parent company and bad publicity just might do the trick. Locally, I'd recommend picketting the dealership.
Posted by: vjack | May 26, 2008 8:07 AM
. . . it's called free speech.
No, it's called incredibly bad manners (insulting people for no reason)--and worse business sense: there's a reason why these people are reduced to selling crapmobiles in the middle of nowhere.
And no, a handful of religious crazies drawn in by the "nobody here but us chickens" rhetoric isn't going to help their bottom line; people that gullible don't usually have two quarters to click together (especially since their kind is also Purina Mortgage Bankers Chow). Keiffe & Sons probably have to keep a meth lab out in the back, just to make ends meet.
Posted by: Molly, NYC | May 26, 2008 8:13 AM
When I see the stores with the fish, I tend to avoid them. It's certainly their right, but I sure get suspicious of them.
Same here. Won't set foot in the door.
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | May 26, 2008 8:14 AM
I suspect Ford Motor Co. would be happy to sell anyone of any belief a car.
In fact, they're so happy to sell cars to anyone that they advertise in openly gay publications. For that, they get calls for boycotts from Focus on the Family-type groups.
How can Ford tell whether the boycotter is an honest, patriotic atheist, or some fundy sicko?
Write a letter to the dealership. Write a letter to the newspaper (they don't have to print offensive ads -- the First Amendment is not so broad for paid, commercial speech). Don't get confused with the Dobsonites.
Posted by: Ed Darrell | May 26, 2008 8:16 AM
Talk about close-minded.
And tell me, what the FUCK does God have to do with shitty cars? Seriously... Ford sucks! If that's God's choice of cars, sorry, I'll skip.
Posted by: Michelle | May 26, 2008 8:20 AM
All this just goes to show why I own a BMW. If you like you manufacturers ethically dubious and associated with the German Imperial War Machine of old, then you can't go wrong with a Bavarian Murder Weapon!
The antecedents of modern BMW didn't persecute any one group, they persecuted pretty much every one they could. Yay persecution.
{tongue firmly in cheek}
Louis
Posted by: Louis | May 26, 2008 8:24 AM
I suspect that if that happened in England, they'd be laughed all the way into bankruptcy...
Posted by: Exitus | May 26, 2008 8:30 AM
#8:
Even though I am now an atheist, I used to be a big fan of Steve Taylor in my young Christian days (and I still listen to his music occasionally). He was very controversial in the Christian music community because he criticized the Christian community and was sarcastic about it, as well.
I suppose no one here cares if Steve Taylor supports the type of inanity that the dealership presents, but I want to point out that he wasn't supporting it (back in about 1984).
Here's a comment from his fan club about it (http://www.sockheaven.net/discography/taylor/meltdown/07.html):
"["Guilty By Association"] takes a tongue-in-cheek look at the guilt by association mentality we sometimes find in Christianity. So often instead of searching the Scriptures, we let other people do our thinking, telling us that God gave them a message for us to "send money to support this" or "not to listen to that." Without the Bible backing up what we say, it's impossible for us to speak with authority, which is the theme behind this reggae-flavored song."
Posted by: LawnBoy | May 26, 2008 8:38 AM
I agree that free speech does give them the right to say what they want (however impolite and insulting it may be), but OTOH I'm curious to know what would happen if someone who admitted to being an atheist walked into their show room looking to buy a car. Would their opinion suddenly change? Would they refuse to sell him or her a car? Would that still be legal?
Posted by: BadMA | May 26, 2008 8:39 AM
Free speech means telling people who don't believe in god not to speak freely?
It means telling the world you're stupid. :-D It never fails - nearly every time someone makes a point of ranting publically about something idiotic, they preface it with "this is America" or "free speech" or the like.
But what the hell. I only drive Hondas.
Posted by: Cheezits | May 26, 2008 8:40 AM
Not just England. ANYWHERE but the US, at least as far as developed countries go.
And rightly so. These people are haters, and that's not what christianity is about, and that's not what our society is about.
This reminds me of an anecdote I need to pass on here, just as a reminder that not all christians are haters. My sisters went to a different high school than me, and their physics teacher - like most of their teachers - was a friend of my parents. He was a devout christian, and lent me a book about creationism when I was about eleven, so we could discuss it afterwards while we put together a frame for a sundial I'd built. He leaned towards it because of his faith, but wanted to discuss it logically, because of his profession.
And he knew my parents were agnostic at best, and probably atheist except that they never really cared that much. And my mother still treasures something he said to her; "Jo, I know you don't believe in God, but you're the best Christian I ever met."
And that's what these people forget. Christianity isn't about Leviticus, it's about love.
Posted by: wazza | May 26, 2008 8:48 AM
More on US corporations and Nazi Germany, from the documentary "The Corporation":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkoM8RB-kJ0
Posted by: SC | May 26, 2008 8:48 AM
The dealership has a contact page.
http://www.kieffeandsons.com/
Posted by: Gene Goldring | May 26, 2008 8:55 AM
While they don't seem to know the difference between "non-Christian" and "atheist" it seems they are meaning for all of the former to STFU. Maybe it's worth drawing it to the attention of non-Christian God-botherers; religious groups seem pretty good at organized indignation, after all.
Posted by: Matt Heath | May 26, 2008 9:01 AM
This man is obviously a shitty capitalist. If I was a private business owner I would want everyone's money as long as they conducted business honestly.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | May 26, 2008 9:02 AM
But did you know that 86% of Americans say they are White? Since we all know that 86 out of every 100 of us are Whites, we at Keiffe & Sons Ford wonder why we don't tell the other 14% to sit down and shut up. I guess maybe I just offended 14% of the people who are listening to this message. Well, if that is the case then I say that's tough, this is America folks, it's called free speech. None of us at Keiffe & Sons Ford are afraid to speak out. Keiffe & Sons Ford on Sierra Highway in Mojave and Rosamond, if we don't see you today, by the grace of God, we'll be here tomorrow.
I like that they used 86/14, because it's remarkably close to the percentage of African-Americans in the U.S. And higher than the percentage of either gays or left-handers.
Posted by: chancelikely | May 26, 2008 9:04 AM
This is a strange way to do business, and I'm not so convinced it will work out in their favor. It's a crass and ugly tactic, and while it might win the favor of a number of religious fanatics, I'm not sure how many Holy Joes are sick and tired of having to share a dealership with Teh Heathens. At the same time, not only will this alienate the non-Christians for no good reason (~14% of would-be customers), but also a lot of Christian moderates who value pluralism, and would otherwise be turned off by this kind of rhetoric. Hopefully, this blows up in their face, and they're left feeling like the asses they are...
...Of course, what would be real leverage would be for this to gain international attention. Globally, Christians make up only about 25% of the population, a news story headlining that Ford openly discriminates against non-Christians would certainly be bad for their image in emerging markets.
Posted by: j.t.delaney | May 26, 2008 9:04 AM
I am officially boycotting Ford until they come out and issue a public apology for this ad (I know it's not Ford Motor making the ad but they have to have some control over their dealers).
I was in the market for a new pickup too, but it looks like I'm not getting an F-150. I guess I'm going Toyota or Dodge.
Honestly get over yourself Ford. The love affair was over in the 20s, your marketing is crap and your product is crap.
Posted by: Reginald | May 26, 2008 9:04 AM
And Yugo! ;-)
China has entered the business, too, but AFAIK they don't export their own car brands yet.
Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | May 26, 2008 9:06 AM
It never ceases to amaze me how few USans have the faintest clue what principles the US is supposed to be founded on. Fond as they are of words like "unamerican", I would guess that USans are now by far the most "unamerican" population in the West.
Posted by: Emmet Caulfield | May 26, 2008 9:08 AM
Their speech might not be as free as they think. Isn't the dealership a Ford franchise? Given how creepily protective companies are about their "image"
see here: http://consumerist.com/consumer/leaks/verizons-style-book-for-deploying-can-you-hear-me-now-guy-301676.php
I would assume there may be something in their contract with Ford that prohibits certain kinds of advertisements. But I really don't know anything about these agreements, so I may be wrong.
Posted by: SC | May 26, 2008 9:13 AM
And another thing, I'm guessing that they really are shitty businessmen beyond just this add. Whomever designed their website need to be taken out back and flogged.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | May 26, 2008 9:14 AM
Here is what I wrote to the dealership:
You are quite correct that you have the right to offend those of
us who disagree with you. I am not particularly offended, but might I point out that since you and I both have the right to speak freely that it is at a minimum hypocritical for you to demand that I "sit down and shut up." If you are Christian as you claim, you might want to examine these not so Christ-like behaviours in yourself. He had a few choice words to say about those who say one thing and do another.
You do indeed have the right to offend. You have the right to say whatever you want. Having the right to do something does not make it the right thing to do. For myself I have many Christian friends, and I am very careful to be polite and supportive of their beliefs. They do know that I am not a beliver. We have often had friendly arguments about faith and reason. Not one of them have ever told me to "sit down and shut up." I think they would be offended by your ad as well. Consider that. 86% may believe in God, but that doesn't mean 86% will be on your side. I think you have likely offended far more than 86% of the people hearing this ad. To be honest, I don't think Christ himself would agree with you on this. Check out Matthew 6 verses 1-8.
Please... Take down your ad. I don't blame you for being anrgy with unbelievers. But think carefully about how your attitude reflects on your faith.
Thanks for taking the time to listen.
I appologize for the length. I hope earnestly you can understand where I'm coming from.
Peace on Earth,
Karl Otterson
Posted by: Karl Otterson | May 26, 2008 9:18 AM
You can buy a Skoda, the fatory in Plzen (still there, I've seen it) was used to build the Mark I & II panzers it did so under duress after Czecheslovakia was annexed. All the taxis around here are Skodas.
Posted by: Peter Ashby | May 26, 2008 9:20 AM
So, I suppose when their business starts tanking (if it already hasn't with things being what they are today), they are setting themselves up perfectly to caterwaul about the ubiquitous Christian Persecution&trade to score some martyr points, huh?
Posted by: Dan | May 26, 2008 9:24 AM
I think the closest the UK's ever come to this would be Reg Vardy, who I think runs some sort of massive auction house for knock-off second-hand cars. He poured some of his not inconsiderable wealth into a private christian school and tried - and completely failed - to encourage the government to teach intelligent designism in science classes.
I will have to decide within a couple of years between a Ford Focus and a Honda Civic Type-R (up to 05; I don't like the new one quite as much, cool though it is). This has swung me the tiniest bit more towards the Type-R. In either case, yes, there will be additional big speakers and other such nonsense.
Posted by: Facehammer | May 26, 2008 9:24 AM
I'll conclude my comment/link jag with a quick reminder: Boston Skeptics in the Pub meeting tonight at 7. More here:
http://bostonskeptics.wordpress.com/
Posted by: SC | May 26, 2008 9:30 AM
The old jokes about FORD:
F.O.R.D. = Fix Or Repair Daily. Found On Roadside Dead.
For Kieffe & Sons, I'll add "Famously Offensive Right-wing Dealership."
...
I owned a Buick a few years back, and I own a Chevy pickup now, but my general feeling about American automakers since the 70s is that they're traitors to the American ideal of excellence.
Back then, if you got 100,000 miles on an American car, it was tribute to your extreme diligence in babying it along, and not to the quality of the car. If you got a Toyota on the other hand, you could drive it like a tank and it would still get 100,000 and more as a matter of course.
Rather than immediately tool up for the same level of quality or better, Ford, Chevy, etc. went whining to Congress about slapping tariffs on Japanese imports, all the while trumpeting their own "American made" labels. Even with the tariffs, the imports started to cut into their market share like a forest fire.
Even today, I still see lots full of gas-sucking SUVs on car lots instead of the small, fuel-efficient cars. Like nobody could foresee high gas prices.
A pox on the lot of them. But now Ford especially seems like a bunch of Bill-O'Reilly-type jackasses undeserving of those broad-minded customers who don't fit Kieffe's closed-minded small-town-hicks approach.
Posted by: Hank Fox | May 26, 2008 9:36 AM
Ford's misogynistic "Ride it like a Ford" campaign from a couple years ago effectively destroyed any shred of respect I had for the company.
Posted by: Rose | May 26, 2008 9:37 AM
Ahem. "... I still see lots full of gas-sucking SUVS instead of ..."
Posted by: Hank Fox | May 26, 2008 9:40 AM
Aww, Facehammer, you don't know what you're missing! Unless, of course, you do. :) I've been driving the North American Type R (the Si) for a couple years now. I'm not too clear on just how different those models are under the admittedly radically different bodies, but if they're similar, I'd say go for it. Love mine to pieces. Frankly, I wish I could get yours over here, as I prefer hatches.
Posted by: rrt | May 26, 2008 9:43 AM
True confession: I've had a lingering affection for Ford because they were my father's favorite car. He was an auto mechanic, though, and he liked tinkering with cars.
I'm tepid on the subject of boycotting Ford, though, because American auto makers lost me long, long ago, and it's not as if their bigotry could be a significant factor in steering me away. When I'm shopping for cars, what I want is something small, fuel-efficient, and utilitarian — the opposite of what Detroit is building. What I want next is a tiny little two-seater commuter car.
Posted by: PZ Myers | May 26, 2008 9:47 AM
Why buy a bad car in the first place. I think the ONLY reason Ford is still selling cars is that they give the impression that it is ALL AMERICAN! because quite frankly, they would not have a snowball chance in hell if they were not.
Posted by: Kim | May 26, 2008 9:52 AM
My email to Kieffe & Sons ( ksf@kieffeandsons.com ):
Good luck with that "sit down and shut up" promotion.
You just convinced me I'm not a Ford man. And that you're not very good Americans.
My advice: Listen to a little less Rush Limbaugh, and read a little more about the founders of America, the radicals who sparked the truly radical American ideals of inclusion and fair-mindedness.
Posted by: Hank Fox | May 26, 2008 9:52 AM
I always buy used cars (well, OK, I bought new once...a Subaru...never again) I'm driving a Hyundai...not aware of their political history re fascism... quite popular here in Canada... and my son drives my older Corolla that's now well old enough to vote (turns 20 this month...the car that is)
Posted by: BAllanJ | May 26, 2008 9:52 AM
Who has heard this on the California airwaves? I live far away from there, so all I've heard was a sound file that might have been recorded from the radio, or produced to sound that way.
I associate the phrase "sit down and shut up" with a famous Bush 41 press event -- could this be an anti-Republican hoax?
Posted by: Great Omnipotent Tigger | May 26, 2008 9:54 AM
PZ: ever thought of getting one of those big two-seater touring motorbikes?
You know the ones, like in-line roofless cars with two wheels?
Two-seater, fuel efficient, fair-sized luggage capacity...
and nothing says bad-ass like turning up on a motorbike of any kind.
Posted by: wazza | May 26, 2008 9:57 AM
GOT: This aggression will not stand!
how's that for a Bush the Elected quote?
Posted by: wazza | May 26, 2008 9:58 AM
OK - one more comment. The MIT museum last month had an interesting exhibit about "CityCars." Hard to imagine them in the snow, but...
http://cities.media.mit.edu/projects/citycar.html
Posted by: SC | May 26, 2008 9:59 AM
First, my city council in Lancaster, CA, votes unanimously to have "In God We Trust" prominently displayed on the back wall of council chambers, and now a dealership in Mojave, a small town just "up the road," does this?
It's really time for the godless around here to get organized! If you are a resident of Lancaster, the Antelope Valley, or anywhere in the area and would like to work together on these and other issues, please contact PZ for my email address. Is that all right with you, PZ?
Posted by: castletonsnob | May 26, 2008 9:59 AM
Speaks for itself. Ford like all the original US auto makers is in big trouble right now.
Ford is fighting for its survival and may go the way of Nash, Rambler, and Packard. The Mojave dealership may end up in trouble as well.
This isn't the first time the US auto industry has gotten caught by high oil prices. The predictions for peak oil have been out there for decades and having a plan B would have been prudent business. While they were selling their trucks and SUV's, they could have been engineering and tooling up a gas efficient car for the era when gas is selling for $4.00/gallon. Or for the era when it is selling for $8.00/gallon.
Posted by: raven | May 26, 2008 10:00 AM
By itself, it wont make a big difference in their business one way or the other. the number of people who make major spending decisions based on such things is rather small.
Its a good opportuntity to try and embarass Ford though.
Posted by: omar ali | May 26, 2008 10:01 AM
Funny, and I was in Mojave just the other week (wind-turbine pix coming soon to my blog!), and I must have driven past this dealership -- it's not that big a place. I was, however, driving my MIL's Mercedes, and I have only ever owned half a Ford (ie. Nissan Quest).
But speaking of Mercedes: PZ, are Smartcars available in MN? They seem to be the popular econo-car in Ottawa (but not in LA, where we saw a Prius every block, but nary a Smartcar, even at Merc dealer lots).
Posted by: Eamon Knight | May 26, 2008 10:03 AM
So this guy is defending his bigoted nonsense by flying the flag of free speech and telling us to shut up?
Classic.
Posted by: Spook | May 26, 2008 10:08 AM
I think this should be brought to the attention of non-Christian religious communities and disseminated as widely as possible. Somehow the fact that "86% of Americans say they believe in God" means that "86 out of every 100 of us are Christians," and by logically flawed implication all non-Christians should "sit down and shut up." Ford might be able to disregard the concerns of the atheist and agnostic communities, but would probably be less willing to ignore outrage from across the religious spectrum.
Posted by: Marc | May 26, 2008 10:11 AM
The ad is so poorly written that I am unsure what it says. Is it possible he is telling the 14% to come on in and buy a car?
Posted by: Jim Thomerson | May 26, 2008 10:13 AM
Kieffe, you gabbling limpet!
Posted by: Kseniya | May 26, 2008 10:16 AM
#9:
Fiat was one of the world's first corporations to get on board with international fascism, building military aircraft and tanks for Mussolini's forces (Bosworth's Mussolini's Italy).
Incidentally, who's boycotted telecoms based on the wiretapping scandal?
#11:
Mike, your friend Mickey is probably better off losing their business. Every person I know who's worked in hospitality says it's a truism that evangelicals/Mormons/JWs are lousy tippers. I think slacktivist mentioned that as well.
#43:
PZ, you want a smartcar. Two seats, fits in your pocket, and gets around 40 mpg. Though it's sold by Mercedes...
Posted by: False Prophet | May 26, 2008 10:21 AM
How Christian of them.
When I see crap like this, it reminds me of the bible. In particularly, Matt 25:40
"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'"
(actually, it reminds me of the song we used to sing in church, but that was based on the bible)
So even if we accept their position that atheists are the scum of the earth, the bible is very clear that they are supposed to be treated well. In addition to Matt above, there is also
Luke 6:35
"But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked."
and
Matt 5:43-48
"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
Telling the uppity atheists to "sit down and shut up" is a blatent disregard of the teachings of Jesus. (I won't even hold them to Jesus's instruction to provide no-interest financing!)
If anyone is thinking about writing them a letter, I recommend including bible versus.
Posted by: Pablo | May 26, 2008 10:24 AM
Fucking ford. This is so fucknig sad. FUCK!
Posted by: andrew | May 26, 2008 10:26 AM
PZ said:
"What I want next is a tiny little two-seater commuter car."
Translation: Mid-life crisis with bright red sports car.
Posted by: Tony Popple | May 26, 2008 10:26 AM
"I guess I just offended 86% of the people who are listening to this message."
Not me, but he probably offended a few Ford workers who assemble the cars that he sells.
Does he give a shit about them?
Posted by: CalGeorge | May 26, 2008 10:34 AM
Just sent the following to Ford:
____________________________
You apparently have a dealership in Mojave, CA called Kieffe & Sons Ford (with another location in Rosamond). They have seen fit to include the following verbiage in one of their recent ads:
> "But did you know that 86% [...snip...] by the grace of God, we'll be here tomorrow."
You can hear it here: http://www.mediafire.com/?g1f492lbruy
Now, I live far, far away from Mojave but I have to tell you that, as an atheist, this type of invective casts a pall for me over *any* Ford dealership or product. I would be curious to learn if the corporation is counseling its dealership on the inadvisability of throwing 22% (not 14% as he seems to think) of his potential customer base under the bus, /a priori/.
We currently drive a 2004 Volvo S60R. It's a great car but we are very careful about which companies we do significant business with. And quite frankly, the products are not so well differentiated that the social attitudes of the companies who produce them are relegated entirely to the background....
Thank you for your consideration,
--David
(reply here for other contact info if desired)
Posted by: David | May 26, 2008 10:35 AM
My letter to them:
Recently I saw a Ford ad which proclaimed that the new Focus "is now equal in quality to Toyota". My son and I looked at each other, laughed, and said; "So why not just buy a Toyota?"
Posted by: decrepitoldfool | May 26, 2008 10:40 AM
A wonderful thing about free markets is that it makes it possible for people to cooperate without subjecting each other to ideological examinations.
The proprietor of this dealership is an incompetent businessman. This creates an opportunity for a competitor with a more inclusive attitude towards his customers.
-jcr
Posted by: John C. Randolph | May 26, 2008 10:49 AM
#44
Funnily enough, over here in Europe, Ford have done quite a good job in convincing us that they are definitely not selling us American cars. Most of their cars are small, economical and in my experience, reliable. The Focus has been very popular.
Posted by: ShemAndShaun | May 26, 2008 10:51 AM
Incidentally, the reason that I won't buy a Ford product is the incompetence of the designers of the venturo-carb in my '78 mercury marquis. That carburetor cost $1800 to replace when it failed, but I could have bought a standard four-barrel to replace it for a mere $800. This replacement was made necessary because a rubber part inside it failed, and there was no way to replace just that part.
Looking at Ford's stock performance lately leads me to believe that they haven't gotten their act together in the twenty years or so since I abandoned them.
-jcr
Posted by: John C. Randolph | May 26, 2008 10:53 AM
Perhaps some freethinkers living in the surrounding areas can don their EvolveFish or Rational Response Squad gear and go to this dealership and take a few test drives. Maybe a negative reaction from the dealership owners may get some press attention and show these people for the bigots that they are.
Posted by: Johnny Cache | May 26, 2008 10:58 AM
"None of us at Keiffe & Sons Ford are afraid to speak out."
Yeah, none of them at Keiffe & Sons are afraid to speak out because they just admitted they're in the majority, speaking the apparent popular opinion.
That's just, you know, wow. Such bravery. That's courage under white hot fire of peer approval. I'm sure their necks redden at the very thought.
Posted by: OctoberMermaid | May 26, 2008 11:01 AM
I couldn't resist the temptation:
To Messrs Kieffeandsons:
I would just like to share my opinion on the ad that your dealership recently aired, concerning the "14%" in the US who are not christian, which, as I understood from your ad, are not welcome in your dealership.
My only thought is, why? Would you really admit to be the virulent anti-semite that you come across as in your ad? Or how about anti-budhist, anti-islam, anti-hindu and, indeed, anti-atheist? Because, when you defend christian prayer, christian gods in your pledge, and christian trust in your currency, you are effectively signaling to all these groups that they are second-class citizens.
Does this not remind you of the way Nazi Germany's business people refused to service jews? Or of how blacks were not allowed into almost any white-owned business until only recently in your own country? Do you not realize what "shutting up the minority" really entails, what its consequences could be?
You mention free speach in your ad, and you are correct, you have every right to voice your oppinion, whatever that might be. But I would remind you that there are other rights enshrined in your constitution that should carry the same weight, and among them is freedom of (and from) religion, the right to choose to believe (or not believe) in anything you desire, without fear of reprisals or persecution, a right that, it would seem, you do seem to be trampling on.
Kind regards,
Santiago
Posted by: Santiago | May 26, 2008 11:02 AM
Two words: Alan Jackson. One word: Gawwwwwdamn!
Posted by: danley | May 26, 2008 11:06 AM
#67: that's because the cars that Ford sells in Europe are designed in Europe, for Europe. And they have to compete with the Japanese and European cars that were designed for Europe.
Posted by: Beowulff | May 26, 2008 11:10 AM
But did you know that 86% of Americans say they believe in God?
And that statement is categorically correct. They "say they believe in God". But they don't, and they ain't gonna start. It's just something they feel compelled to say.
Why must they humiliate themselves that way? Holy Shit, what kind of chump are you if you can be intimidated that easily?
Never, never make that mistake! If someone has the sheer unmitigated chutzpah to say they "believe in God" for Christ's sake, don't start debating His existence, ask them to prove they believe in Him. Wishing He existed is not the same as believing in God. And neither are halucinations.
Posted by: Mooser | May 26, 2008 11:11 AM
I wonder how many "Christian" churches in Mojave will have a sermon condemning this hatred? My guess is none.
Posted by: Ron Hager | May 26, 2008 11:14 AM
"Sit down and shut up"... "freedom of speech"... so much cognitive dissonance, it hurts.
On the bright side, I don't think they'd be running this ad if they weren't feeling the heat -- if they weren't, themselves, doubting.
Posted by: Nemo | May 26, 2008 11:17 AM
You know, when a guy considers Henry Ford's long dalliance with anti-semetism and fascism, he would think that Ford Motor Company would want to shut those people right up.
Do they want all that dragged out?
Posted by: Mooser | May 26, 2008 11:20 AM
Notice: They aren't concerned with people actually believing in God, only with people "saying" they believe. Nor are they interested in converting anybody, just shutting them up if they refuse to adhere to their favorite verbal formula.
Posted by: Mooser | May 26, 2008 11:23 AM
Rather than sending e-mails to this bigot who made the ads, it is probably more effective to send it to TV stations in that area (or directly to Ford).
Posted by: DrBadger | May 26, 2008 11:26 AM
Someone should go in, get all ready to buy a car, test drive, negotiate the deal and THEN drop the bomb that you are atheist. When you get the "I'll go talk to my manager" line, say, "Be sure to tell him/her that I am an atheist."
Let's see if the salesperson is really willing to give up their commission.
Posted by: Pablo | May 26, 2008 11:28 AM
Not completely. Businesses are not allowed to discriminate under federal and state laws. Furthermore, they are required under their contract with Ford to follow both federal and state laws, so they have violated their dealership agreement. Now, of course, the ad was such a badly written ad that they will argue that they aren't saying that they are discriminating against atheists, just speaking out against them.
Still, they are fools or businessmen who don't care about religion at all, but know how to find a mark.
Posted by: freelunch | May 26, 2008 11:29 AM
Really? According to US law, it would not be legal for them to deny their business to the black population, which would be a similar percentage to atheists. Why is it a right in this instance? Is it because you happen to agree with them? Or am I truly less of a citizen because I believe in one less god than most?
If this were to happen to any other minority in this country, there would be a frikkin' HUGE outcry over civil/human rights issues. Why is it okay for nearly 50 million people to be discriminated against?
This is not asinine. This is dangerous, and should scare the hell out of everyone.
Posted by: Rich Stage | May 26, 2008 11:31 AM