…and this is a 
What year is this again?
Category:
Posted on: May 13, 2008 8:26 PM, by PZ Myers
I am stunned that this t-shirt could be proudly displayed anywhere anymore.
Now get this: the Atlanta Journal-Constitution is running an online poll that is asking, "What do you think of the Obama t-shirt?", with two choices: "It's racist" and "it's fine". You might be wondering why the newspaper would even have to ask…but here's the kicker.
"It's fine" is winning.
Do you think maybe we can shift the balance there? Or should we just let this indictment of Georgia's racism stand?
Comments
Wow!
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: Glen Davidson | May 13, 2008 8:29 PM
It's racist 48.97% 6435
It's fine 51.03% 6705
I casted my vote. Lets rock this poll
Posted by: evil lulu | May 13, 2008 8:32 PM
Must be some of that "Christian Love" I keep hearing about. (I mean, Georgia is the Bible Belt, right?)
Posted by: Martin | May 13, 2008 8:32 PM
I think we should let the racists win. Just as Expelled repelled the middle ground who might otherwise go along, this is so over the top that it would drive any reasonable person away.
Posted by: Quidam | May 13, 2008 8:32 PM
After careful consideration, I'd have to say it's racist. Even though I do like monkeys, and bananas, and monkeys are, after all, quite intelligent and related to mankind, I think the intent was primarily to cast a racist slur.
Posted by: CrypticLife | May 13, 2008 8:33 PM
Good evening, Prof. Myers.
I did vote, but the results of this farce should be broadcast everywhere, so that those who would deny that racism remains a problem today, can try and refute this. I am appalled, which just shows my naivete, since the ID movement has so many adherents, too.
Posted by: trog69 | May 13, 2008 8:34 PM
racism never even crossed my mind until you brought it up
Posted by: Joseph | May 13, 2008 8:34 PM
ummm... I'm not sure I get the racist reference... Is this like when the Indian bowler (forget his name) called Andrew Symonds a monkey, and everything went to hell in a handbasket?
Posted by: Anon from Aus | May 13, 2008 8:36 PM
Hey PZ!
speaking of bananas, and uh intelligent design... nah the connection is tenuous, but I just saw this book in Barnes & Noble which was excreted by some DIdiot putting one of Darwin's books among those that have "screwed up the world".
Just thought you might want to know about it:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1596980559
Posted by: TAG | May 13, 2008 8:36 PM
I wonder if the people who made the Curious George movie are happy with this misappropriation of their art.
Posted by: johnb | May 13, 2008 8:38 PM
I thought The Republicans already had their Curious George in The Oval Office?
"Oh, err...well, you see, we were attacked by Afghani terrorists who were mainly from Saudi Arabia...but I'm curious what Baghdad will look like in flames. LET'S BOMB IT! Fun fun for everyone!"
Posted by: Chris (in Columbus) | May 13, 2008 8:38 PM
And things are only going to get uglier over the next several months.
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | May 13, 2008 8:40 PM
It's racist, and it's trademark and copyright infringement. Quick, get the Stanford Fair Use team on this case to defend it!
Also, cue the Clinton surrogate who'll blame the shirt on Obama playing the race card.
Posted by: Ken Cope | May 13, 2008 8:40 PM
if it isn't racist, then what the hell is it trying to say?
Posted by: valor | May 13, 2008 8:41 PM
I lived in Georgia for 10 years. And other than my wife's entire family, coworkers, vague acquaintances, and random people I met on the street, I never saw any racism.
Posted by: Deepsix | May 13, 2008 8:45 PM
Well, it's racist, duh.
But that's fine. People are wholly allowed to state their opinions, no matter how stupid. If you met anyone with a shirt like that, you'd be justified in deeming them a bigotted nitwit (and most likely devoid of a sense of humour) before they even opened their mouth. And that in turn would be your prerogative.
Posted by: Sili | May 13, 2008 8:46 PM
Well since it seems my posts never get though I guess I will just use this as a rant. Could anyone here explain to me the difference between this shirt and the cartoon depiction of Mohammed in recent months?
Why is it ok in the latter but not the former?
Posted by: Richard | May 13, 2008 8:46 PM
The improper apostrophe is to be expected, I suppose.
Posted by: Ken Cope | May 13, 2008 8:47 PM
And if you want to see how many Georgians feel about Obama, check out http://forum.gon.com/forumdisplay.php?f=9 and scan for the Obama posts. This is a Georgia hunting/fishing forum, but I assure you that these views are held by many Georgians. These guys seem to be obsessed with Obama (or O'bama for my fellow Irish).
Posted by: Deepsix | May 13, 2008 8:54 PM
Me either. I would have just looked at the shirt in befuddlement.
Posted by: benjdm | May 13, 2008 8:56 PM
Wow. I didn't notice the racist overtones until I read that part of the post. I was just confused...first I thought, "Curious George? Curious George Bush? Curious George Bush fucked our country, so you should vote for Obama in '08?" Then: "Monkeys? Common descent? Obama will be anti-ID, so you should vote for him?"
Only when I read the post did the sad reality of the message set in.
Posted by: Etha Williams | May 13, 2008 8:57 PM
No, the George in The Oval Office is decidedly incurious.
Posted by: Troy Britain | May 13, 2008 8:58 PM
About the book "10 Books that Screwed the world" at
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1596980559 ,
this has only 2 reviews and both gave it 5 stars. Hopefully, the real reviewers will come along shortly and do this book justice.
Posted by: Stephanurus | May 13, 2008 8:59 PM
Apparently it's just fine with a lot of folks that racism is still proudly presented by jerks, particularly in states that commonly vote for Republicans.
Posted by: freelunch | May 13, 2008 8:59 PM
I helped turn the tide:
It's racist 50.00% 6766
It's fine 50.00% 6765
What racism. I find the guy's comments more offensive than the shirt, really.
"Norman acknowledged the imagery's Jim Crow roots but said he sees nothing wrong with depicting a prominent African-American as a monkey. "We're not living in the (19)40's," he said. "Look at him . . . the hairline, the ears -- he looks just like Curious George.""
Ugh. I suppose I do agree that he has a right to do this kind of stuff, but its still infuriating...
Posted by: Nick | May 13, 2008 9:09 PM
I'll agree with Anon from Aus...is this a similar thing as to when Harbhajan Singh called Andrew Symonds a monkey? If not I'm awfully confused as to why this would be considered racist. (And no I'm not a troll, but honestly asking the question).
Posted by: belinda | May 13, 2008 9:09 PM
"No, the George in The Oval Office is decidedly incurious."
Yep- and Cheney is too damn fat and nasty to be the Man in the Yellow Hat.
Posted by: Mosasaurus rex | May 13, 2008 9:09 PM
I hope he doesn't hang around with the Man in the Yellow Pantsuit.
Posted by: Epistaxis | May 13, 2008 9:14 PM
Belinda:
After reading a few more of the comments, I'm making a guess that there's some sort of cartoon with a character called Curious George that quite probably has the racism buried in it...
The article made reference to "Jim Crow Imagery", which I also don't get... I know about the Jim Crow laws, of course, but not about the imagery. I'm guessing you'd have to be American to understand, though I'm going with you in the non-trollish request for anyone else to aid our understanding...
Anyone?
Posted by: Anon from Aus | May 13, 2008 9:17 PM
I've expected all along an Obama candidacy - especially if he made it to the general election - would be a rude awakening for people who thought there wasn't so much racism in America any more. It's going to get ugly.
For more, http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24588813/
Posted by: Zombie | May 13, 2008 9:18 PM
I'm not sure about the Harbhajan/Symonds thing, but the reference here is to American (shit, European) racial codes in which blacks were posited as lesser humans, as apes. It's been a common trope in American popular culture. Disney, in particular (Jungle Book, Lion King...) has done quite well making such associations. The equation of blacks with apes or monkeys is deeply embedded in American racial history.
Hope that helps make it a bit clearer.
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | May 13, 2008 9:18 PM
The sign outside the restaurant where the shirt is being sold is pretty misogynistic:
http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2008/05/double-whammy.html
Posted by: Skwee | May 13, 2008 9:19 PM
Ok now I get it....Now that I've read the news article it is the same. To be honest, when I first heard about Andrew Symonds getting called a monkey last year I didn't understand why that was so offensive either (although it certainly was bad sportsmanship). Chalk another one up to my naivety. (When my American friend mentioned the "n" word I said "What swear word begins with N? "nerd??")
Posted by: belinda | May 13, 2008 9:19 PM
"He said he noted physical similarities between the Democratic front runner and the cartoon monkey while watching a Curious George movie with his grandchildren."
Finally, proof for common descent in Cobb County! And passed to a new generation. The miracle of education in Georgia.
Cobb county is home of the 'just a theory' textbook stickers.
Posted by: d simpson | May 13, 2008 9:21 PM
I am conflicted on how I want this poll to turn out and the implications, so I think I will just avoid it and leave it to the better judgement of your other readers.
Posted by: Steve Ulven | May 13, 2008 9:22 PM
Sad, but the Atlanta Journal-Constitution probably knows its readship and what it can get away with among them.
Posted by: Tosser | May 13, 2008 9:23 PM
#28: Yes, there's a cartoon monkey in a series of children's books called Curious George, but the racist content isn't from that. It's from the blunt "black people are monkeys" implication, which was (and, alas, obviously still is) a common racist meme here in the US.
Ugh. I can't believe it's even close to 50-50. I'd have thought that sort of thing went way out of bounds years ago.
Posted by: KCProgramr | May 13, 2008 9:25 PM
Just to put up a defense, I live in Georgia and I'm not racist. There is a lot of racism down here, even members of my own extended family. It's like a silent undercurrent, you don't see it but you can feel it everywhere from both whites and blacks. But we're not all racist morons. Some of us want change.
Posted by: Paradox | May 13, 2008 9:26 PM
Racists in the South? I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you. Why, comparing a black man to a monkey...how can that be racist? It's totally harmless comparing blacks to monkeys...what harm can come from that? It's not like white people would then think of blacks as sub-human or anything...or less deserving of being treated as a fellow human..that would never happen....
Posted by: Phil | May 13, 2008 9:28 PM
Oh, man... I fail at racism.
I didn't get it and had to read the article and look around on the internet to understand what was going on.
Man, I fail hard at racism...
Posted by: D | May 13, 2008 9:28 PM
It's racist 50.68% 7001
It's fine 49.32% 6812
Need backup.
Posted by: Ouchimoo | May 13, 2008 9:29 PM
I say let them be racist assholes. Might as well get it out in front, let's start reinforcing that the GOP as the party of racists now.
Let's make it harder for them to run away from their own tactics and past. Make it really hard for people to hold their nose and pull the lever for McCain.
The true racists will probably vote for Bob Barr anyway, or Ron Paul.
Posted by: Steve_C | May 13, 2008 9:30 PM
When Obama began to emerge as a serious presidential candidate, I wondered how the Right-Wingnuts would attack him without being overtly racist. I mean, surely they realize that overt racism doesn't really fly anymore, right?
...right...?
Posted by: BoxerShorts | May 13, 2008 9:30 PM
Thanks MAJeff for the explanation. Also to KCProgramr. I'm usually pretty good, but sometimes the American references on the web just fly right by me. And for your knowledge the Harbhajan/Symonds "thing" was in a cricket game between Australia and India one of the Indian players "alledgedly" made racist remarks (called him a monkey) to Andrew Symonds (one of the Aussie players). The crowd in India also chanted monkey when they played over there. There was a huge outcry over the entire thing.
Posted by: belinda | May 13, 2008 9:31 PM
How about option 3: "It's racist and it's fine", for those of us even more behind the times
Posted by: Nick | May 13, 2008 9:32 PM
The strange thing is I don't see that much racism here. Of course I only associate with intelligent beings.
Posted by: Sarah | May 13, 2008 9:33 PM
No reference yet from the 'liberal' media.
Funny, since this is the kind of thing that would help shore up the claim that Repuglicans are (kinda) racist.
Posted by: Ryan F Stello | May 13, 2008 9:33 PM
In America up until the late sixties common racial slurs included "apes", "monkeys", and the ever popular "jungle bunnies", all of them referencing the African origin of the designee an the supposed degenerate status of American ex-slaves.
Posted by: Geoffrey Alexander | May 13, 2008 9:35 PM
Why is it that the people that are most likely to vehemently deny that we are cousins of apes are also the ones most likely to compare blacks to monkeys?
Nobody sees the disconnect there? Are they that....oh, right.
Posted by: chief | May 13, 2008 9:37 PM
It's racist 51.03% 7131
It's fine 48.97% 6843
Posted by: Daniel R | May 13, 2008 9:38 PM
Cognitive dissonance is their game, and they play it well.
Posted by: Dennis N | May 13, 2008 9:39 PM
Those confused - there is a long history in America with blacks being considered inferior and primitive, and much more like monkeys than "white folk". Sadly, it got all mixed up with social Darwinism, and was part of the bit where evolution was trotted out as evidence that white people were more evolved, therefore better, therefore supposed to hold the high ranks in society and black people were supposed to be slaves, since they were savages who lived in the jungle with/like the monkeys and acted like them and looked like them and so on and so on. I'm very glad that it's gotten to the point where a lot of people don't even make the connection, but believe me, that t-shirt is a total dog whistle to racist asshole bigots. Well, technically a dog whistle isn't detectable by others and this one is a screaming loud neon sign, but same idea.
Charmingly, the guy who is selling the shirts also ran a huge sign over his restaurant that said "I wish Hillary had married OJ". Made of win, that guy.
Posted by: Carlie | May 13, 2008 9:40 PM
I'll stipulate it's fine as long as someone does a take-off on the T-shirt with Curious George looking confusedly at his finger with a banana sticking out of his rear and a caption saying 'George W.: 2000 - 2008'.
Why ponder the racist-ness of the T-Shirt when you can use it to totally pwn the other side with a better variation?
Posted by: gordonsowner | May 13, 2008 9:42 PM
As a professional, I can attest that allowing people to vote only once per day on an internet poll makes it 38.7239% more scientificish.
Posted by: SC | May 13, 2008 9:43 PM
As opposed to all the other polls I've been directed to, the ignorant side seems to be holding its own on this one. The grand wizard that owns that bar sure has some clever marketing schemes.
Posted by: ihateaphids | May 13, 2008 9:44 PM
Teaching up here in Boston, I often run into students who seem to think that racism only happens elsewhere. I have to remind them that this happened in Boston during busing riots in the 1970s. While we now have an African American governor, there are still areas in the Commonwealth where folks would never consider voting for a nonwhite. There have been reports over the past few years of growing white supremacist activity here.
Racism remains a central stain. It's changed and it's different in different locations--I saw "Circle the Wagons, the Indians are Coming" bumper stickers out in Minnesota, but nothing like that here--but it ain't gone by a long shot.
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | May 13, 2008 9:44 PM
To those people that, at first, didn't get it, that would be a great thing and an indicator of progress especially if you were black. Unfortunately that isn't the way things are.
Near the end of the article:
Sheesh... like the world needs reminding that we have the right to be assholes to each other.
-DU-
Posted by: David Utidjian | May 13, 2008 9:56 PM
It's racist 51.21% 7199
It's fine 48.79% 6860
Posted by: mickie mcclain | May 13, 2008 9:59 PM
>Good evening, Prof. Myers.
what a formal anonymous commenter! Salutations to you, Anonymous. Let's have it, what have you got to say about the poll about the t-shirt calling Obama a monkey?
>I did vote, but the results of this farce should be broadcast everywhere,
Ok, that was tricky. Let's break it down. You DID vote, BUT the results should be broadcast everywhere. hmm. implying that your voting or not... affects whether the poll results... should... or shouldn't... be better known... 'everywhere'.
I really don't follow. If you hadn't voted, then they should NOT be better known everywhere? What does your voting have to do with anything?
Oh, and 'farce'. Nice! i gotta use that more. 'farce'. Like fart and face combined, but totally wuthering heights-ish. Farce. I Say, this unsoliscited analysis of this random comment at Pharyngula about a poll about a t-shirt that calls Obama a monkey is a farce! Good day, Sir! I said, GOOD DAY!!!
> so that those who would deny that racism remains a problem today, can try and refute this.
Yes! those racism-is-a-problem-today-deniers! that's the problem right there. We gotta get a handle on these folk! Racism-denying egg will be on their faces when they try some refuting on this one, once it becomes known everywhere, despite your having voted for it!
Man, i'm saying the words right, but it still don't make a lick of sense.
> I am appalled, which just shows my naivete, since the ID movement has so many adherents, too.
Totally! My naivete is also out there, too! Pants around its ankles, pasty ass cheeks blinding in the sun. I mean, come on! There's tons of ID'ers, thus, we are naive, illustrating how appalled we are, because there is a poll about a t-shirt comparing Obama to a monkey!
Who am i kidding. This is a pointless farce. I can not make any sense of this. I really wish the Yahoo! boards were back. There's an article saying the Vatican is okaying belief in aliens. You know what insane kinds of fun I could have on THAT comment thread? sigh...
Posted by: Anonymouse | May 13, 2008 10:09 PM
In the 60s, it was the images of Black women and children being assaulted with firehoses that galvanized White America and helped bring about an end to American Apartied.
I say let this poll stand. The uglier this election gets, the more likely sane Americans on both sides of the political aisle will stand up and vote their conscious, if for no other reason than to prove to the world that we're not all inbred, mouth breathing, knuckle draggers from the south.
Posted by: Richard | May 13, 2008 10:10 PM
This made me think of these candies in Spain called Congolitos (can't find a picture online - they have to be seen to be appreciated), which always seemed racist to me but not really to friends of mine who weren't from the US.
Also reminded me of the Sambo's controversy years ago. There was one, briefly, in my town.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sambo's
Posted by: SC | May 13, 2008 10:15 PM
Ugh. I can't believe it's even close to 50-50. I'd have thought that sort of thing went way out of bounds years ago.
anonymity is racisms' best disguise.
without fear of persecution or social stigma, I find racism to be rather prevalent as an attitude, even among those who should know better.
still a few generations to go before racism is truly a forgotten issue.
Posted by: Ichthyic | May 13, 2008 10:16 PM
"The strange thing is I don't see that much racism here. Of course I only associate with intelligent beings."
Sarah. Are you retarded...or just stupid? No, I really mean it. I want an answer. If your statement is just some meta-joke I don't get, then I apol..no, wait a minute. Screw you, you racist idiot. Wake the fuck up, bitch!
The Hammer
Posted by: The Hammer | May 13, 2008 10:17 PM
Given the symbolism and history involved, the shirt is racist.
However, I suspect there's a legitimate bit of humor lurking in there, in that there is a slight resemblance between the character Curious George and the candidate Obama -- and no, not because they're both African or whatever. I forget who used to put out those "Separated at Birth" clips which juxtaposed random photos of two completely unrelated celebrities who had some sort of unexpected resemblance, but this shirt reminded me a bit of a popular one with I think it was Daryl Strawberry (a baseball player) and Dino the Dinosaur. Strawberry was black, but that wasn't the issue. There really was no deeper issue, other than saying "heh, yeah, I see it."
Maybe The Onion should market the shirt. That way, it will either be seen as innocent of any racist intent, or so crudely racist it's meant to be "ironic."
Posted by: Sastra | May 13, 2008 10:18 PM
I think the racist undertones of the monkey imagery are not well-known not only to non-Americans, but even to most younger Americans. Well, younger white Americans, anyway.
Hell, even Macaca had a lot of people scratching their heads.
Interestingly, what is blatantly racist and over-the-line in the eyes of older generations often seems totally innocuous to many younger people. And for good reason. Without the historical context, the darker meaning behind much racist imagery is not at all obvious. And we're so afraid of talking about race in this country that we do a terrible job of giving that historical context.
Perhaps the confusion over whether or not this shirt is racist is a result of certain racist terms and images falling out of fashion amongst all but a subset of the deeply racist and the genuinely ignorant (who don't realize the subtext). Younger people simply haven't been exposed to them, so the racist connotations are considerably less obvious.
Posted by: unicow | May 13, 2008 10:21 PM
Reminds me of that Simpsons quote... Bart and Milhouse are in a speeding, out of control school bus. Milhouse says, "It's just like Speed 2, but with a bus instead of a boat!"
Posted by: inkadu | May 13, 2008 10:21 PM
I suppose there is a social comment in that the racist here is some loser pushing t-shirts and the man he is attacking has a good chance of becoming the most powerful man in the world. Still, what a douch bag scum sucker.
Posted by: Bob L | May 13, 2008 10:24 PM
@ 63
I missed the historical monkey connection, until I read the comments here. I'm from Canada, and have only ever visited "The South" once, well after legal segregation was an issue.
I just saw the subtle similarity as a caricature... and I was really put in mind of the monkey-faces of George W. image that has made the rounds.
Posted by: Richard | May 13, 2008 10:28 PM
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5ijDA5bgxiHlTvS_r-SSjskS1Tq1wD90L4L680
APNewsAlert
13 minutes ago
JACKSON, Miss. (AP) -- Democrat Travis Childers wins special election for Mississippi's 1st Congressional District
===
Not quite a jewel, perhaps insufficiently compressed coal but still....
===
see also
http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_News/2008/05/13/flier_links_candidate_to_kkk_statue/4419/
Posted by: Pete Dunkelberg | May 13, 2008 10:30 PM
Now:
It's racist 52.38% 7653
It's fine 47.62% 6957
Ohhhhh, I can't wait to vote octo times at work tomorrow!
Posted by: Latina Amor | May 13, 2008 10:30 PM
Man, even Bush got compared to Curious George...
http://www.bushorchimp.com/images/pic49.jpg
Posted by: Richard | May 13, 2008 10:30 PM
Sastra,
How old are you? You're naivte is awe-inspiring!
Rock on, little one! Just remember: the earth existed before you got here. Really. It's true!
The Hammer
Posted by: The Hammer | May 13, 2008 10:31 PM
Let it stand so the people in my state can at least take credit for their ignorance.
And just think, that's only the people here who know how to use the internet.
/wishes to move far, far away
Posted by: Kyle W. | May 13, 2008 10:31 PM
one real does have to wonder who the real knuckle draggers are. but it's no wonder, it's obvious. how sad.
Posted by: genegalore | May 13, 2008 10:35 PM
That reminds me - I still kind of want a Screechy Monkey(TM) t-shirt.
Posted by: SC | May 13, 2008 10:36 PM
Oddly, the text at the other end of that AJC link has changed in the past couple of hours. Included before was this:
Some of [Norman's] other recent musings: "I wish Hillary had married OJ," "No habla espanol -- and never will," and "I.N.S. Agents eat free."
Posted by: kemibe | May 13, 2008 10:40 PM
Commedian David Cross hates the Altanta-journal Constitution
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2QqrvSryQA
That's heaven AND squagels
Posted by: Amplexus | May 13, 2008 10:41 PM
My vote: It's racist.
Why?
Because it's racist.
Not hard to get from Point A to Point B on this one.
Posted by: MikeM | May 13, 2008 10:42 PM
What do monkeys have to do with being racist? I'm not seeing the connection.
Posted by: Chadwick | May 13, 2008 10:42 PM
I'm going with "let this indictment of Georgia's racism stand."
Posted by: Physicalist | May 13, 2008 10:43 PM
It looks like George W McChimpy to me, but I still voted for racist, cuz it is. FWIW, the monkey actually looks WAYY smarter thatn George W.
Posted by: J-Dog | May 13, 2008 10:44 PM
I find it interesting that, in the name of condemning racism, all 8 million Georgians get painted with the same broad brush of crass generalization.
By the way, last March 1,050,000 Georgians voted in the Democratic primary, 700,000 of them for Obama. Including me, a 49 year old white guy. That same day, 957,000 Georgians voted as Republicans.
So you might want to reassess your view of Georgia as a state of racists.
Posted by: Reid | May 13, 2008 10:46 PM
That took me a moment to get.
Posted by: YoungLinguist | May 13, 2008 10:48 PM
I say, let the people of Georgia show the world just what kind of people they are.
It's one thing bringing a note of sanity to a poll put out by the DI or creationists, which will then be used to, say, lobby for more religion in science class.
It's another to represent the people of Georgia as something they're not.
Posted by: Monado | May 13, 2008 10:48 PM
I'm with Etha. There have been lots of comparisons between George Bush and Curious George. It was confusing.
Apart from the confusing stuff, it's just racist to use it against Obama as it is. I see no resemblance. I see a lot of animosity instead.
Posted by: Ed Darrell | May 13, 2008 10:50 PM
@ Chadwick (#77): See #30 (MAJeff) and #56 (David Utidjian).
Posted by: Physicalist | May 13, 2008 10:50 PM
Discrimination against blacks linked to dehumanization, study finds
"Crude historical depictions of African Americans as ape-like may have disappeared from mainstream U.S. culture, but research presented in a new paper by psychologists at Stanford, Pennsylvania State University and the University of California-Berkeley reveals that many Americans subconsciously associate blacks with apes.
In addition, the findings show that society is more likely to condone violence against black criminal suspects as a result of its broader inability to accept African Americans as fully human, according to the researchers."
Posted by: Jen R | May 13, 2008 10:52 PM
I say let it stand. Let the bastards show themselves for what they are. Why clean up after them?
Posted by: Jack Rawlinson | May 13, 2008 10:52 PM
I went in and voted racist. I will NEVER cede ground to bigots, racists, or ignoramus's(sp?).
Posted by: konquererz | May 13, 2008 10:54 PM
btw, in case it hasn't already been mentioned, I rather doubt this guy came up with the idea on his own:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/03/limbaugh-caller.html
Posted by: Ichthyic | May 13, 2008 10:55 PM
OK... so I think I have it figured out. Some people out there think black people are monkeys. Or visa versa... Whatever. I wouldn't have thought anything of it until I read through the comments here. I think the so-called non-racist people on this thread are doing more damage to their cause by drawing attention to the association of black people and monkeys. What? Am I to believe they associated or something? If you didn't say anything about it, I would have gone on thinking that curious george supports obama. What about the association of Japanese people and monkeys? You know, as a consequence of all that world war II propaganda? Maybe the person selling these shirts is really calling Obama a Japanese? Damn that racist woman.
Posted by: Chadwick | May 13, 2008 10:56 PM
Holy shit #18, i read those and i feel actually physically sick. those are NOT people posting in that forum, just sick horrid things.
Gah, i need to go wash my eyes with lye.
Posted by: Cat of many faces | May 13, 2008 10:56 PM
Are you kidding? We should vote "it's fine." :)
Posted by: Moses | May 13, 2008 10:57 PM
Maybe there should be a follow-up poll: Should Atlanta erect a monument honoring Civil War hero William Tecumseh Sherman?
Posted by: Original Sin Southerner | May 13, 2008 10:59 PM
Hammer, Sastra outright said that the shirt was racist. What exactly is he being naive about? Surely not that the two look somewhat alike, which I don't see but which is entirely a matter of opinion. The very nature of most modern racism (where the explicit/conscious message is much less important than the implicit/unconscious message) almost guarantees that a lot of racist symbols will allow for innocent interpretations. That's all he was pointing out.
I was one of those that was just confused by the picture. Prompted to look for racism, I get it, and I don't understand how anyone could vote "it's fine" when clued in to the possibility of a racist interpretation, but had there just been the picture and the question: "are you okay with this shirt?", I'd have answered 'yes'.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 13, 2008 11:00 PM
I wouldn't have thought anything of it until I read through the comments here.
so ignorance of history as an excuse for racism?
enough already.
for those trying to blame those who actually REMEMBER the racial slurs, black as monkey included, don't try to blame us for recognizing it yet again.
blame yourselves for being so ignorant.
seriously, you should know better.
Posted by: Ichthyic | May 13, 2008 11:00 PM
Chadwick, you're a fool. Go re-read #56, think about who's selling the T-shirt where, and why. Do a little research if you have to. You might start with the link in #29.
Posted by: Physicalist | May 13, 2008 11:01 PM
Apologies to Reid and all other reasonable Georgians. The times do move. There's racism where I live but it tends to be covert or even unconscious. It was way more obvious in the southern U.S. - in posture during conversations, in who held which jobs. One of the best reasons for having everyone in public school