…and this is a 
Another dumb poll
Category: Pointless polls
Posted on: June 5, 2008 1:09 PM, by PZ Myers
It's part of an article about an atheist billboard for the Greater Philadelphia Coalition of Reason, which sounds great. Alas, the Inquirer marred it with a stupid internet poll that asks, "Do you believe in God?" Haven't they learned yet that these things are easily skewed? Go show them that atheists can be organized, too.
Take a look at the comments while you're there, too — I like the one that says, "If this guy ever gets diagnosed with terminal cancer I guarantee he takes that billboard down so fast your head will spin." It's an admission that religion is built on fear.
Comments
Sounds like O'Lielly's bifuracted drivel.
Posted by: danley | June 5, 2008 1:13 PM
"If this guy ever gets diagnosed with terminal cancer I guarantee he takes that billboard down so fast your head will spin."
Funny, I've always thought that the sloppiness of biology (including but not limited to our 1-in-3 penchant to develop cancer) is one of the best arguments against God...
..well, against any God that is supposed to be both good and competent.
Posted by: Jason Failes | June 5, 2008 1:14 PM
The article states:
"Think of it as a sign of the times."
Oh, I really really hope so.
:)
Posted by: Serena | June 5, 2008 1:16 PM
Yes 685 (58.1%)
No 350 (29.7%)
Not sure 143 (12.1%)
This should be easy.
Posted by: Oleg | June 5, 2008 1:19 PM
Wow. Just refreshed, and "No" is up to about 37%.
It's great to watch internet polls in the process of getting PZed.
Posted by: Jason Failes | June 5, 2008 1:23 PM
Yes: 702 (57.4%)
No: 375 (30.6%)
Not sure: 147 (12.0%)
Posted by: Blake Stacey | June 5, 2008 1:25 PM
I've been an atheist for over 14 years.
6 years ago I was diagnosed with Hodgkins Lymphoma and had to go through the Chemo/Radiotherapy routine. It definitely took its toll on me but never did I turn to religion.
As I recall I spent those eight months catching up on Sade and William Burroughs. Hardly religious by my estimate.
This August I will be cured and for that I thank the doctors, nurses and hospital staff too numerous to name.
Posted by: Paul | June 5, 2008 1:25 PM
Woo! Finally, something that happens in my state :)
Posted by: IBY | June 5, 2008 1:25 PM
I like the picture, shifting the frequent connotations of "God being up there" to the emptiness that's really there.
Do non-believers really join up like they hope to do, though?
Finding that out will be the most important part of the billboard and article.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: Glen Davidson | June 5, 2008 1:26 PM
Stupid poll. Can't answer.
It doesn't exist. A No answer implies that it exists.
Posted by: kryptonic | June 5, 2008 1:27 PM
I hear and obey!
Posted by: Michelle | June 5, 2008 1:29 PM
I take that back, it is in PA
Posted by: IBY | June 5, 2008 1:29 PM
That's a lot of money to spend on a billboard! There's another article listed in Dawkins news list from the Huffington Post about the serious decline of the evanglicals. Maybe we're finally getting somewhere with these toads. (voted No)
Posted by: Patricia C. | June 5, 2008 1:29 PM
Don't over-think it kryptonic. Sometimes you have to play by the established rules, as incomplete as they may be.
Posted by: Alex | June 5, 2008 1:31 PM
No just overtook yes!
My favourite commenter so far is mikehuckabee2012, who begins with "Scientists can't explain how everything first started" and then jumps from that to "there HAS to be a supreme being".
Posted by: JD | June 5, 2008 1:42 PM
It's the old problem with the word belief, a word we use in two distinct senses. If I ask, "When did you stop believing in Santa Claus?" we naturally parse the question as asking, "When did you no longer think that Santa Claus exists?" On the other hand, if we follow the song and ask, "Do you believe in rock and roll?" we're talking about whether we think rock is a good thing, a positive influence, a reason to keep going.
Thus, we have Stephen Colbert's joke: "I believe in America. I believe it exists."
The problem comes when atheists say, "I don't believe in God," meaning it in the sense of not believing in Santa, and theists trapped by their preconceptions hear that we hate God, after which they accuse us of killing Christmas.
Posted by: Blake Stacey | June 5, 2008 1:42 PM
Yes: 42%
No: 48%
Maybe: 10%
We've still got a way to go!
Posted by: Jesse, Dallas | June 5, 2008 1:44 PM
I hear what you're saying Alex. I have to admit I had fun with earlier PZ-endorsed poll crashings even though I think online polls are really worthless.
Posted by: kryptonic | June 5, 2008 1:46 PM
For J:
Well-designed billboard.
47% Y
41% N
if I recall correctly.
Posted by: SC | June 5, 2008 1:46 PM
Looking at the comments of the article:
--------------------------------------------
Posted by Natural_lady 10:36 AM, 06/05/2008
Lord - Please pardon their ignorance. Amen
--------------------------------------------
Wow. Just... WOW.
Posted by: Michelle | June 5, 2008 1:55 PM
"No" is at 51%, "Yes" somewhere in the 30s.
Posted by: Natasha | June 5, 2008 1:59 PM
Yes 793 (39.0%)
No 1054 (51.9%)
Not sure 185 (9.1%)
Posted by: rob | June 5, 2008 1:59 PM
I get a laugh out of how every fifth or sixth commenter throws up a random quote from the Wholly Babble and seems to think that it's a big "so there" moment that is going to explain it all to us depressed, dysfunctional people in a blinding burst of Divan light! How anybody that stupid can be overbearingly pompous about it will never cease to amaze me. It's no wonder this country is unraveling the way it is, this idiot notion of the supernatural poisons whatever well of logic and intellect may exist in believers and makes it impossible for them to have coherent and non-contradictory understandings of the world. The monumental lack of knowledge these folks display is the most visible symptom of the decay and senescence of the United States. I'm so disgusted with the prevalence of superstition in society that I seldom associate with people who believe that nonsense any more and I'm infinitely happier for it.
Posted by: Milo Johnson | June 5, 2008 2:03 PM
Yes: 815 (36.1%)
No: 1250 (55.4%)
Not sure: 191 (8.5%)
Posted by: Blake Stacey | June 5, 2008 2:10 PM
Beat me to it SC.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | June 5, 2008 2:12 PM
Blake at #16 makes an excellent point. Most christian apologetics are aimed at merely making someone believe that god exists, as if simply by doing so they will immediately kowtow to said god and be christian. It's hogwash. If some dumbass theist actually managed to prove to me that their god exists, I STILL wouldn't worship it, as it's proven that its nature (as described in the bible) is fundamentally UNWORTHY of worship.
And if I supposedly 'burn in hell' for that - so what? I wouldn't believe that either. He lied about the fruit of the tree killing us, so I bet he's lying about hell too. (Besides, the standard catholic line, the party of my youth, says that hell is merely 'the absence of god', and that sounds like a good thing to me! )
Anyway, I voted for No, of course. What I want to know is who on earth would vote "I don't know.". You don't KNOW whether you believe in god or not? Talk about a lack of self-awareness....
Posted by: Vic | June 5, 2008 2:15 PM
Cool. I'm embarrassed to admit I've probably driven by that billboard a half-dozen times since it went up, and I never noticed it.
Posted by: Wicked Lad | June 5, 2008 2:28 PM
Personally, as a man of the scientific method,I wouldn't be able to say yeah or neigh, as I'd need solid scientific evidence on either side. A Christian God, well no, but a power that I cannot explain, possibly. Seems like a useless poll to me. Science can only disprove theory, and I don't consider modern religion a theory, due to lack of any evidence, but modern religion is way off of what a "God" could be. I'm going back to Greek polytheism, as it has as much credibility as anything else, and I love my god of wine! (ohh and the newly created god of beer pong)
Posted by: JJ | June 5, 2008 2:30 PM
READER FEEDBACK
Do you believe in God?
Yes
845 (32.5%)
No
1553 (59.8%)
Not sure
'Not sure' is kind of baffling. Don't people KNOW whether or not they believe in a god?
Re: The terminal cancer remark. I'd consult an oncologist and a good estate lawyer long before I'd worry about Zeus.
Posted by: Caveat | June 5, 2008 2:30 PM
You're missing the most important part of the article... the picture of Mr. Wade! I want to be that healthy when I'm 70.
Atheism does a body good.
Posted by: Nicole | June 5, 2008 2:33 PM
This is my favourite quote after a quick read through, this one caused me to spray beer all over the keyboard:
'you don't believe in god, then don't believe in god. but do you really need to flaunt your atheism and try to recruit people?'
jesus.h......he he he...Who says irony is dead?
Posted by: TonyJ | June 5, 2008 2:33 PM
I can't decide whether this comment is sarcasm or not. I want to believe that it is, I really, really do, but then it's too well done:
"This is an absolute disgrace! I can't believe that more people are not outraged by this sign? We should not be catering to the 7% of society that don't believe in God. Also,we should not be forced for having to explain to our young children the beliefs of God everytime we ride down I - 95. We need to put pressure on the city and force them to remove this sign. If people agree with Mr.Rade, then they can go to his website, otherwise leave God's children out of it. AMEN!"
Posted by: Nicole | June 5, 2008 2:38 PM
I was talking about religion to a devoted Catholic I work with the other day. At one point she asked me what would happen if my wife or some other loved one had something really really terrible happen to them. The implication was that at that point I'd turn to God. And like the comment, is a clear sign that religion isn't built on reason, but on fear or despair or [insert bad thing here].
Frankly, the question just confused me. Why would I start believing in a god just because something terrible happened to my loved ones? Seems to me that that's a pretty compelling reason not to believe in a loving god.
After thinking about it a bit, I'm of the opinion that most theists actually think that atheists secretly believe in a god, and we're just being difficult. They really think it'll just take some terrible trauma to convert us.
Which is a little scary, especially if they start trying to use trauma as an evangelical tool.
Posted by: unicow | June 5, 2008 2:41 PM
Posted by: negentropyeater | June 5, 2008 2:44 PM
Now 62.7% say no (1,822). Apparently you can vote multiple times. I think I'm up to 8. I would vote "no" for each god I don't believe in, but who has that much spare time?
Posted by: Slaughter | June 5, 2008 2:46 PM
#33 unicow , wht was the inquisition but using something really taumatic to get people to turn to god? They've already been using it for centuries.
Posted by: Barklikeadog | June 5, 2008 2:47 PM
Funny thing is unicow, why did this person, after understanding that you are an atheist begin fantasising about terrible things happening to your loved ones? That kind of rot distubs me and I see that ghoulish bloodthirsty reaction all to often.
Posted by: TonyJ | June 5, 2008 2:47 PM
negentropyeater, that idea come up now and again in literature, especially of the sci-fi kind (or maybe that's my reading bias.)
Question is, if *somehow* we discovered that to be true, would you want to worship such a species, or rather learn more about them? How would different people treat it? Would the fundies call them gods or blasphemers?
Not the most practical line of thought, but I think it's fun.
Posted by: Nicole | June 5, 2008 2:50 PM
Unfortunately, most Christians don't have a problem with that. "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom."
Posted by: dave | June 5, 2008 2:51 PM
"If this guy ever gets diagnosed with terminal cancer I guarantee he takes that billboard down so fast your head will spin."
Well, probably not. But the PEW survey on religion in the US seems to indicate that most athiests change their mind as death looms closer: 3% of the US population below 30 is athiest, only 1% of the US population above 70 is (see p37).
So...2/3 of you reading this post will convert to something else before you die...I suggest you get a head start and choose animism now :)
(*There's another possible interpretation of the data, but I won't be responsible for putting more ammo in the fundies' dumb-idea gun. That clip is already full.)
Posted by: Eric | June 5, 2008 2:57 PM
"If this guy ever gets diagnosed with terminal cancer I guarantee he takes that billboard down so fast your head will spin." For the record, I had a friend who got terminal cancer. She was scared, she was angry, she was discouraged -- but as far as I know, she never considered reverting to theism (she was raised Catholic). It was certainly not a topic I remember discussing in the many late-night conversations we had during her illness.
Posted by: Woozle | June 5, 2008 3:02 PM
Eric,
I can't tell where in that comment you're joking. You know that's not a reasonable interpretation of those data, right?
Posted by: SC | June 5, 2008 3:05 PM
Terminal cancer made me believe in god, once. When they buried my son, I felt that way. It lasted about five seconds.
32% Y
67% N
They did a good job on that billboard.
Posted by: watercat | June 5, 2008 3:05 PM
Eric,
There's another interpretation that matches up with your data:
that the older people have ALWAYS been at the 1% mark, and that the 3% is not due to youth, but due to growing up in a different era.
Posted by: Pat Swanson | June 5, 2008 3:15 PM
"Well, probably not. But the PEW survey on religion in the US seems to indicate that most athiests change their mind as death looms closer: 3% of the US population below 30 is athiest, only 1% of the US population above 70 is (see p37)."
The data does NOT support your conclusion. It would, if the SAME people were followed throughout there life, and belief in a god increased between 30 and 70. However you cannot say that using this data. The current over 70's may have had a increased belief in god when they were under 30. Unless and until you correct for that you conclusion is false.
Posted by: Matt Penfold | June 5, 2008 3:15 PM
If they know their Bible and believe it, then they do think that atheists do believe in God, and are simply denying it...
Romans 1:19,20 "...since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."
They do this too. (At least the one's who've got building the church membership down to a science.) They often do effectively capitalize on people's emotional vulnerability through chaplains in hospitals, free marriage counseling, etc.
Posted by: wonderer | June 5, 2008 3:15 PM
@ #36
Good point. Certainly the inquisition fits the trauma=belief in god mold. But that approach has fallen out of favor in modern times (I think).
@ #37
I think it may have been a little more innocent than that in this case. Sure, it's still ghoulish. But the last time I was in a church (about 6 months ago) it was because I was attending the funeral mass for her husband who had committed suicide after being diagnosed with cancer. Arguably her belief did help her cope in some way. So I'm not too concerned with that element in this case. It certainly does spring up in a lot of other cases where the connection isn't so obvious though.
This is also a person who upon further questioning admitted that her belief has nothing to do with reason, and is based solely on faith and needing to know that "there's someone more powerful in charge."
Probably not a person that's going to be swayed by a rational argument. Interesting to talk to on some level, but the chances of us ever seeing eye to eye (on pretty much anything, actually) are virtually nil.
Posted by: unicow | June 5, 2008 3:17 PM
Funnily enough I've driven past that billboard and I'd always assumed that phillyCOR was a fundamentalist church.
Posted by: NoAstronomer | June 5, 2008 3:19 PM
Blake Stacey #16 wrote:
This becomes particularly clear when it comes to the paranormal. Christians will often seem to agree with rational skeptics: they "don't believe" in astrology, psychic powers, precognition, reiki, and so forth. But just a little probing shows that they don't mean what we mean. They don't think those things are false, illusionary, and don't really work.
No, they mean they don't believe in using such methods, for these powers do not come from God. It's like someone saying they "don't believe in having the waitstaff sing happy birthday in restaurants." They're expressing distaste, a desire to stop it from going on.
unicow #33 wrote:
That's one reason I hesitate to go to those businesses which proudly display a little Christian fish. They might discover I'm an atheist. Do I really want someone who believes that "it'll just take some terrible trauma to convert me" working on my brakes?
Posted by: Sastra | June 5, 2008 3:19 PM
After thinking about it a bit, I'm of the opinion that most theists actually think that atheists secretly believe in a god, and we're just being difficult. They really think it'll just take some terrible trauma to convert us.
But of course. Doesn't everyone secretly want to be a child again with an all-knowing all-caring parent to make the boogey man go away? I'm not being sarcastic, I do think everyone does, it is just that adults realize it is just fantasy and don't delude themselves that there really is such a "parent" for everyone.
Posted by: SteveM | June 5, 2008 3:21 PM
Just bringing this up incase anyone missed it. If you view the results page there is another poll at the bottom left. Topic is "What subject would you not like discussed at work". Religion is slightly ahead of Politics at the moment.
Posted by: Pete | June 5, 2008 3:21 PM
God is losing by 66% to 27% right now (with the rest undecided).
It would be nice if results like this would end stupid Internet polls (but I don't think it will).
Kent Brockman: Of course, this is just a [Web] poll, which is not legally-binding, unless Proposition 304 passes, and we all pray it will.
Posted by: Zeno | June 5, 2008 3:23 PM
@ #46 wonderer
I'd never seen that verse before. Nicely done.
On the other hand, I've certainly had times where I thought certain theists can't possibly really believe the bullshit they're saying.
I can't tell whether accepting the sincerity of their belief makes me more or less depressed about it though.
Posted by: unicow | June 5, 2008 3:25 PM
I believe we need a new term...PZwnd. =)
Posted by: FastLane | June 5, 2008 3:25 PM
I actually see that billboard on a regular basis (my husband does more than me, as he commutes past it every day) and was glad to see that someone was willing to publicize to Philadelphia that we are here and we're not going anywhere. I'm also glad that the billboard is tasteful; not making atheists look scary or imposing, as so many foolish individuals think we are.
I can't say that a traumatic incident is necessarily enough to convert someone to theism. At least not an educated person. Everyone in my immediate family is atheist. We've all been through traumatic events (loss of loved ones, disease, etc) throughout our lives and none of us have ever wavered in our non-belief of a higher being.
Posted by: Chelsea | June 5, 2008 3:31 PM
To SC (#40), Pat (#44), and Matt (#45),
The post was meant to be a bit tongue-in-cheek - thus the comment about converting to animism now. But only half joking because I think the statistics are interesting even if we can't say why the situation is what it is.
But, for the record: I agree, the only thing you can really say about the Pew results is that a greater % of current under-30's are atheist compared to over-70's. Old-age conversion is one possible explanation but there are many other reasonable explanations, such as (for example) new growth in athiesm among young folk, or a bias in older atheists towards not answering the survey. Men are disproportionally represented in athiests, too (about 60% of the total), which explains a small part of it as men aren't 50% of the over-70 category.
A less reasonable explanation is that only the good die young (<-joke).
Posted by: Eric | June 5, 2008 3:41 PM
@ #53 unicow
Tell me about it. I do a lot of butting heads on an obscure little religious issues forum. One of the posters there is a really nice guy who really tries to be open-minded, but he uses that verse from Romans to justify to himself God's morality in condemning people to hell. By convincing himself that only people who consciously and deliberately reject a God they know that they should worship, he rationalizes the problem of theodicy.
I'd probably find such twisting of a person's thinking surprising, if I hadn't once had that sort of thinking myself. It can be pretty frustrating and depressing to deal with.
Posted by: wonderer | June 5, 2008 3:45 PM
"This is an absolute disgrace! I can't believe that more people are not outraged by this sign?"
See what we mean when we say that no matter how nice we are about atheism, people will still piss and moan about it?
On one hand, it's nice that this billboard is getting attention. On the other hand, it really shouldn't be getting any more attention than any of the much more undiplomatic Christian billboards get (in a more perfect world, I mean). And the way they describe the guy in the article, sheesh. "He's not a baby-eating devil!" I mean, really, are we still that much a novelty?
Posted by: Rey Fox | June 5, 2008 3:46 PM
unicow @ #33:
My take on it is that they believe atheists are being atheists as a kind of adolescent rebellion, akin to a fifteen-year-old telling his parents, "I hate you!" because they won't let him stay out until 3:00 am with a group of dubious-looking twentysomethings.
That is, the believers take it as a precondition that some god or other exists, so the only explanation for an atheist's behavior is that we hate 'god', or are rebelling against 'him', or whatever.
As for the question itself -- it's poorly worded. Rather than asking, "Do you believe in God", the question should be, "Does a god of some sort or other exist?" Then, the yes/no/agnostic choices are more rational.
(And to paraphrase Dawkins, if the question had been, "Do you believe Shiva, the Creator/Sustainer/Destroyer, exists?" the 'no' votes would be damn near 100%. But godtards don't usually think about things like that, because it makes them very uncomfortable.)
That the bad wording is as it is suggests quite a lot about the mindset of the creators of the poll and the question -- as well as the part of the country this is all happening in.
Posted by: Warren | June 5, 2008 3:46 PM
Sure, a lot of people turn to religion when they're seriously ill. Some other people turn to psychics and voodoo. What are we to make of this? "Anything you turn to in desperation is true and good -- as long as it's God."
Posted by: Andrés | June 5, 2008 3:48 PM
I've said it before and I'll keep saying it every time I see that question. When you see or hear "Do you believe in god?" interpret it in your mind as "Do you believe in MY god?". Because that's what the questioner is really asking you.
Most people have beliefs one way or the other, and no two people who say they "believe in god" will agree on every detail when pushed. And that, in a nutshell, is where it all goes almond-shaped (well you can't get pears in nutshells can you?)
Anyway - where was I? Oh yes, the question should really be "Do you believe in A god?" - to which my honest answer would have to be "I might be persuaded if any evidence comes to light, and I might sometimes consider that there is an intangible higher power of some sort, but I wouldn't call it god."
But that response isn't on the poll, so - no.
Posted by: Elwood Herring | June 5, 2008 4:08 PM
I read several of the comments over there and now my head hurts -- I think I sprained a frontal lobe. :(
Regarding the notion that religion is driven by fear -- isn't it obvious? Fear of non-existence is the very heart of religious belief, with the idea of a soul of some vital essence inherent to us as individuals carrying on in some form after death pretty much a universal constant across religious beliefs. People believe so they don't have to face up to their own mortality. Death becomes a mere "transition" from one life to another, a comma rather than a period in the sentence of their life.
-- Pheathers
/Or is that a semi-colon?
//I'd've suggested colon, as that's where many believers' heads are, but that would have just been too silly.
Posted by: horse-pheathers | June 5, 2008 4:21 PM
Horse-pheathers - I actually worship the almighty Apostrophe, and abhor its misuse which to me is the most heinous blasphemy.
In the light of this revelation, I bow to your impressive knowledge of the correct use of the word I'd've - now that's class! I haven't come across that one since relishing the exquisite tang of sha'n't in Alice in Wonderland.
Lewis Carroll - now there was a writer who understood apostrophes!
Posted by: Elwood Herring | June 5, 2008 4:31 PM
#28 - JJ, There is actually an ancient goddess of beer. Her name is Sidori, her statues show her holding a brewing jar. I bought my husband a small statue of her at www.sacredsource.com
Posted by: Patricia C. | June 5, 2008 4:37 PM
I find the presentation on the website to be quite offensive. O'Reilly avoided the easy angle of a story about controversy and stuck to writing a short profile of Rade. This wasn't good enough for someone in the Inquirer office. instant poll and blog-style comments. Whoever set up instant poll and comments wanted to force the controversy angle and set up the reader participation to invite the believers to air their wounded feelings.
The poll asks "Do you believe in God?" The vast majority of Americans believe in some form of deity. That's not news. It's also not especially relevant to the article. Relevant would be a question phrased to tease out interest in Rade and his group, such as "Would you attend the meeting of an atheists' group?" or "Do you know any atheists?" The do you believe in God question adds nothing to the story except to allow the uncomfortable majority to reassure themselves that their numbers are still unassailable enough that the Rades of the world pose no threat to them. Giving comfort to the powerful is a contemptible way for a newspaper to behave.
The comment board is even more obviously slanted toward controversy and bringing out those opposed to Rade and his group. The link reads: "Your thoughts: Does the billboard bother you?" It's not just set up to provoke controversy, it is clearly encouraging those offended to use the comments to air their feelings of grievance.
It is possible that these sidebars are nothing more than the work of an unimaginative low level editor or webmaster with no ax to grind. But, given the obvious slant, I'm more inclined to see it as a passive aggressive attempt to undermine the message of the article--that atheists are normal people--by encouraging outrage and providing a rallying forum for those hostile to that message of tolerance. But whether it was the result of hostility or incompetence, it is bad journalism.
Posted by: John McKay | June 5, 2008 4:38 PM
@ #59 Warren
Yeah, that's my take on it too. In the eyes of many theists we're not people who've examined the "evidence" for a god and rejected it, we're just rebellious kids who are being oppositional for no good reason. Oddly, this belief seems to persist no matter how well-informed we are.
Seriously, if you presented me with an average atheist and an average Christian and forced me to bet on which one has a better understanding of the Bible, I'd pick the atheist every time.
Then again, if Christians really had a good understanding of the Bible, maybe they wouldn't be Christians anymore...
Posted by: unicow | June 5, 2008 4:48 PM
Simple question: was this country a better place to live before or after God started being removed from our society?
Posted by: Bob | June 5, 2008 4:55 PM
Sastra 49#
You are so right. I don't know of any fundamentalists who don't believe that dabbling in the occult opens the door to satanic and dark forces. (And after movies like "The Exorcist" and "The Omen", and books like "Satan Is Alive and Well on Planet Earth," how could they not?)
However, I've seen a split among Christians on astrology and other forms of woo. Many actually don't believe that such things work, but they do believe that "The Devil" is making people believe that they work! And almost all, I think, believe that such things can be made to work with enough supplication to occult forces.
They will get their pet superstition into the mix somehow, someway...
Posted by: RamblinDude | June 5, 2008 4:57 PM
Huckabee in 2012 would surely make the prophecies correct.
Posted by: AndrewC | June 5, 2008 5:00 PM
And if there's no God, what's preventing me from going to rob a bank or kill someone or cheat on my wife if I knew I could get away with it in terms of the law?
Posted by: Bob | June 5, 2008 5:08 PM
Gee, Bob, you're right, America became a much better place to live when they put "under God" into the pledge of Allegience. And this place was a downright hellhole before they put "In God We Trust" on the dollar bill.
Posted by: SteveM | June 5, 2008 5:11 PM
Bob @ 70
I think it's a rather sad and telling admission on your part that the only reason you behave in any way as a decent citizen, neighbor, or family member is that you are afraid of punishment. Most of us has a sense of self-restraint independent of cowardice.
Posted by: John McKay | June 5, 2008 5:13 PM
well judging by the two response to my posts i'll leave now. it's clear the people on this board are morons who needs some sort of solice in their ignorance. later geeks.
Posted by: Bob | June 5, 2008 5:14 PM
Is Bob a Poe? Sounds like sarcasm, but maybe the regulars here are too good with their sarcasm that it's ruined my ability to detect it from someone I don't read often.
Well, we call it a conscience,; it comes from empathy. It's a little thing that should light up in your brain before you hurt someone. It screams to you, "Who will this hurt?! Would I want this is happen to me?!" I guess you don't have one of those.
Mid-typing I see this:
I guess he was just a lame drive-by.
Posted by: Dennis N | June 5, 2008 5:16 PM
Bob: "And if there's no God, what's preventing me from going to rob a bank or kill someone or cheat on my wife if I knew I could get away with it in terms of the law?"
Do you want to do those things, Bob?
Posted by: FW | June 5, 2008 5:17 PM
Bob @ 73
Wow. Your eloquent logic has converted me.
Posted by: John McKay | June 5, 2008 5:17 PM
Haha I love this comment:
"let them post, they will one day know the truth and say "uhmm God your not real"..what a shame that will be...but hey us christians are the weird, freaks that cause all the problems in the world so let the athiests, homosexuals,witches,...and the reason i mention homosexual is because of the post above...anyhow believe philly before it is to late, i am from ohio and i can feel the evil in this city...very consuming..just look at the poll about those who do or do not believe..what a shame!"
"I CAN FEEL THE EVIL COMIN' FROM THE ONLINE POLL! PRAISE THE LAWD THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YE PHILADELPHIA!!!"
Posted by: Scott | June 5, 2008 5:20 PM
"And if there's no God, what's preventing me from going to rob a bank or kill someone or cheat on my wife if I knew I could get away with it in terms of the law?
Posted by: Bob | June 5, 2008 5:08 PM"
If there is a God, why isn't he preventing all the people who DO rob banks and DO kill people and DO cheat on their spouses?
Q.E.D.
Posted by: Spinoza | June 5, 2008 5:21 PM
Vic (#26):
I think you'd enjoy reading Ted Chiang's story "Hell is the Absence of God".
Posted by: Blake Stacey | June 5, 2008 5:25 PM
Bob,
Your line of thinking is exactly why people like you are evil.
Posts 74, 75, and 78 say enough. You're a creep.
Posted by: Alex | June 5, 2008 5:31 PM
Spinoza #78: I think Bob would probably assert that the ones who do all the bank robbing and spouse cheating stuff are obviously the "evil godless atheists" - except that jail statistics prove otherwise.
Posted by: Elwood Herring | June 5, 2008 5:34 PM
I would have put "Don't believe in a god? You are sane!"
Makes a difference when you use lower case "g" and the indefinite article!
Posted by: Holbach | June 5, 2008 5:37 PM
You're right Elwood. Then I would assert that Bob's deity either allows evil, or can do nothing about it. Either way, those are not the actions or traits of a god worth worshiping.
Posted by: Alex | June 5, 2008 5:37 PM
One person said they could "feel the evil in Philly" and pointed out the poll results as proof!Ha ha PZ'ed.
Posted by: ed | June 5, 2008 5:43 PM
Patricia @#64
Ohh I praise the beer god daily, but the beer pong god, well she makes sure I drop the ping pong ball in my opponents cup, that way we all get intoxicated!
I think I need a statue of Sidori myself, or is that worshiping false idols? I guess if it was more of a beer stein statue, then it'd be ok
Posted by: jj | June 5, 2008 5:51 PM
Yes 1355 (23.4%)
No 4068 (70.3%)
Not sure 360 (6.2%)
Total votes = 5783
Posted by: Daniel R | June 5, 2008 5:55 PM
The ol' "and if there's no God, what's preventing me from going to rob a bank or kill someone or cheat on my wife if I knew I could get away with it in terms of the law?" question strikes me as disingenuous as best, and incredibly stupid at worst.
It's stupid, because one need only think for about 6.8 µs before coming up with situations in which a person might show love or kindness without consulting the nearest bible to see if it's appropriate. For instance, I doubt there's an honest Christian alive who, at the birth of their first child, leaned down and kissed their newborn baby only because they were afraid of God's eternal judgement.
It's disingenuous, because most of them couldn't really believe the argument themselves or they wouldn't ask it of atheists (unless they're really stupid): As an 'Out' atheist, I've had people (my Mor
mon coworker is one) ask that very question to my face. Usually, I respond with something along the lines of, "Well, you've convinced me. Now hand over your wallet before I stab you in the fucking face, asshole." Joking aside, if you really believed someone was refraining from robbing/raping/killing you for the flimsiest of reasons, would you then try to convince them they really had no reason not to? It would be like meeting an ex-con who you knew had been imprisoned for violent assault but claimed to be rehabilitated, and then saying to them, "You're not really rehabilitated. No, I bet you want to curb stomp me right now. Well, what's stopping you? *poke* C'mon, I know you wanna! *poke, poke* C'mon!" Again, makes sense only if you're extremely stupid.Anyways, to sum up: anybody wanna buy a slightly used wallet? Cheap; in good condition; previous owner was a Mor