…and this is a 
Leprechauns always looked suspiciously fey to me
Category: Kooks
Posted on: June 16, 2008 8:13 AM, by PZ Myers
How do these bigots get into high office so frequently? An Irish official in charge of the country's health care cheerfully made some outrageous accusations on the air.
Homosexuality is a mental illness, at least according to the head of Northern Ireland's health committee. Iris Robinson MP, who, with impeccable timing, put forth her views on a radio show while responding to the news that a local man had been badly beaten in a homophobic attack.
After apparently branding homosexuality as "disgusting, loathsome, nauseating, wicked and vile" she went on to recommend that "I have a very lovely psychiatrist who works with me in my offices and his Christian background is that he tries to help homosexuals - trying to turn away from what they are engaged in".
Weird. It's a common attitude among clueless twits, but how can anyone acquire even a modicum of education and still cling to such hateful ideas?
Comments
PZ, you'll have really pissed Iris Robinson off by describing her as Irish - well done! She's a member of the Democratic Unionist Party, led by Ian Paisley until recently, and now by Peter Robinson, Iris's husband.
Posted by: Nick Gotts | June 16, 2008 8:21 AM
"but how can anyone acquire even a modicum of education and still cling to such hateful ideas?"
Magic Man done it?
Posted by: Josh West | June 16, 2008 8:24 AM
She's obviously a closet, self-hating lesbian.
Posted by: Michelle | June 16, 2008 8:25 AM
"An Irish official in charge of the country's health care" makes it sound like the Minister for Health & Children of the Irish Republic... we're talking about Northern Ireland here, which is a little different.
Posted by: Derek | June 16, 2008 8:25 AM
we're talking about Northern Ireland here, which is a little different.
Yup, the UK recognizes gay civil partnerships. The Republic of Ireland does not.
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | June 16, 2008 8:27 AM
Please, distinguish between Ireland (Republic of) and Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland has its own administration, is part of the UK (though as the story demonstrates, is culturally very un-British), and is effectively the Appalachia of the island of Ireland.
Posted by: BrendanH | June 16, 2008 8:30 AM
Adding to Nick #1. The DUP are Northern Ireland's biggest party. For as long as I can remember, they have been the most bigotted fundamentalist bunch of clowns to ever ruin a country. This latest outburst comes as absolutely no surprise. The Reverend Ian Paisley, the founder of the party, started a movement against homosexuality that culminated in Belfast City Hall having a huge banner with the legend "Save Ulster from Sodomy".
The same clowns once banned a very clean pop group called ELO from appearing in Ballymena. ELO's most famous song is a jaunty little number called "Mr Blue Sky"; as innocent as it sounds. The DUP banned them because they would be a corrupting influence on the young. That's the sort of DUP shit I had to deal with when I was growing up! You may have asshats in the U.S., but nothing like these guys.
Posted by: Tom | June 16, 2008 8:35 AM
That's rich! Considering the (in closet), alleged, gay population (catholic) priesthood.
Posted by: Peter | June 16, 2008 8:35 AM
"...how can anyone acquire even a modicum of education and still cling to such hateful ideas?"
Because there's education, and then there's education. How does an MBA and thus knowing how to improve your company's bottom line extend your empathy based on a scientific understanding of what homosexuality is?
Her comments are both despicable and stupid, but for different reasons. Despicable, because any persecution is unacceptable, but stupid becuse she had the intellectual potential to overcome her dogma... and she blew it.
Posted by: Kimpatsu | June 16, 2008 8:39 AM
An Irish official...
Given that she is in Northern Ireland, which is a British territory or colony or something, shouldn't she be described as a British official? Ireland's got some pretty backwards laws and people, but this one's on Britain's doorstep, not Ireland's.
Posted by: Dianne | June 16, 2008 8:41 AM
Brendan - I doubt the majority of those from Northern Ireland would describe themselves as "very un-British". In fact being British is their defining identity and reason they wish to remain within the UK.
Tom - As idiotic as the DUP may be, at least they did not sanction blowing up people as Sinn Fein did purely because of their nationality. See the warrington bomb attack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrington_bomb_attacks) that killed a 12 and 3 year old because they were British. If that is not bigotry nothing is.
Posted by: Jack Donnelly | June 16, 2008 8:41 AM
Wow, that was a virulent homophobic tirade. But thank goodness we have science and statistics on our side, so this is fun.
I propose for you the law of batshit virulent homophobia: if you spend so much time and thought and frothy spittle on bashing gays, you probably are one. Because, you know, no one else cares very much.
The statistical evidence I wish to present is the entire Republican Party of the US.
Conclusion: Ms. Iris doth protest too much, and should go off and find a girlfriend rather than boring the rest of us.
Posted by: Cassie | June 16, 2008 8:42 AM
Ms. Robinson being a politician, what reason have we to believe she possesses a modicum of education?
Posted by: Nomen Nescio | June 16, 2008 8:42 AM
Dianne - She should be described as Northern Irish. Northern Ireland is a full constituent nation/province within the United Kingdom, but is not part of Great Britain or a colony.
Posted by: Jack Donnelly | June 16, 2008 8:45 AM
Help ? Lovely psychiatrist ?
Oh yeah, I know this kind of help, my best friend went through this kind of help 5 years ago. Oh, he rejected his homosexuality allright, also became a "born again". He was "cured".
He hasn't had any relationship, nor sex, heterosexual nor homosexual in 5 years, is permanantely depressed, under intense medication, and still rejects his homosexuality.
What a lovely form of help indeed...
These people are criminals !
Posted by: negentropyeater | June 16, 2008 8:52 AM
It would be nice if these idiots would occasionally read the odd bit of science. It's readily available in easy-to-understand form too, such as in today's New Scientist:
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/sex/dn14146-gay-brains-structured-like-those-of-the-opposite-sex.html
Doesn't sound like a mental illness to me.
Posted by: Gareth | June 16, 2008 8:53 AM
To Jack #11. Let's not turn this into a discussion on the NI troubles or we'll need a new server to hold the comments! All I'll say is just because the IRA committed dreadful crimes (on that I agree), it doesn't excuse the bigotry and hatefulness of Paisley and his cronies. Paisley was best buddies with Bob Jones - that tells you a lot about the man.
Posted by: Tom | June 16, 2008 8:53 AM
She's on a mission from God.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWgMaFGN3SQ
Actually she'd probably be in favor of having Leprechauns stoned for wizardry. As a few of the others have pointed out she's not Irish, she's British (fundamentalists from Northern Ireland also refuse to accept the theory of geography).
Posted by: Sigmund | June 16, 2008 8:55 AM
Northern Ireland is a full constituent nation/province within the United Kingdom
How is that different from being a colony?
Posted by: Dianne | June 16, 2008 8:57 AM
I doubt the majority of those from Northern Ireland would describe themselves as "very un-British". In fact being British is their defining identity and reason they wish to remain within the UK. - Jack Donnelly
True - but the majority of British certainly would!
As Kimpatsu says, there's education and education. In NI, its mostly in the hands of the churches, and its segregation along sectarian lines contributes greatly to the continuing tensions there. However, Paisley's "Save Ulster from Sodomy" campaign got considerable Catholic support IIRC. Nonetheless, it failed in its aim to keep homosexual acts illegal in Northern Ireland after a 1981 ruling by the European Court of Human Rights.
The DUP has just added to its shameful record by helping the UK government to push through the House of Commons a law allowing people to be held for up to 42 days without charge - 36 Labour MPs voted against, along with the other opposition parties, but the DUP's 9 MPs gave the government a slim majority. It is, I regret to say, a popular move. Those of us who value our freedoms are left depending on the House of Lords to block it - which they can't do indefinitely.
Posted by: Nick Gotts | June 16, 2008 8:59 AM
That's an interesting statement she's making there. She could just as easily have stated, "I know a nice psychiatrist", then, "Incidentally, I know a self-deluded homophobic christian". I notice that she does not claim that her "very lovely" psychiatrist is running a psychiatric practice "helping" homosexuals, or that this "very lovely" psychiatrist is claiming any scientific basis for his "help".
Of course her statement could also be read as tacit admission of her own homosexuality: she doesn't state how she knows this "very lovely" psychiatrist who seems to be so concerned with the behaivour of homosexuals...
Posted by: Armchair Dissident | June 16, 2008 9:03 AM
"but how can anyone acquire even a modicum of education and still cling to such hateful ideas?"
... cognitive dissonance comes to mind ... A feeling I often get when talking to true believers (not necessarily religious).
But then again, maybe I just don't want to acknowledge that I am eternally doomed! DOOMED, I SAY! Ha, Ha...
Posted by: Mike K | June 16, 2008 9:03 AM
On top of what you've already said, I also have no idea how she could say these things in the wake of a homophobic hate crime.
I mean, even if you take something that genuinely IS a disorder, like - say - depressions, nobody would go on record saying that depressions are "disgusting, loathsome, nauseating, wicked and vile" right after someone's been assaulted for being depressive.
In fact, thinking about it, I'd say that nobody would go on record saying that, period - quite the opposite, I'd say that the fact that she made these comments betrays the fact that she doesn't actually think of homosexuality as an illness to begin with, since if she did, she'd be more compassionate.
As it stands, she's most likely just a hateful hatemonger who hates GLBT folks as a matter of course and tries to justify it by saying "homosexuality is a disorder" even though she doesn't believe so, just like racists try to justify their racism by coming up with claims about superior or inferior "races".
Coincidentally, this would also explain why an educated person appears to believe that homosexualiy is a disorder.
Posted by: Muffin | June 16, 2008 9:03 AM
If we go into a history lesson of all the protestant vs Catholic violence in Irish history we will be here forever. The DUP represent Protestants, Sinn Fein Catholic (more or less) and the extremes of either are intractable. Needless to say, religion very much rules here in the Republic of Ireland, and in Northern Ireland (UK).
(FYI The Republic has only been an independent country since 1922/29, they are still making it up as they go)
Posted by: Branedy | June 16, 2008 9:03 AM
Tom - I agree wholeheartedly. Just giving the other side and pointing out there are no good or bad guys here. Sorry mate.
Dianne - Northern Ireland has the same status as England, Scotland and Wales.
All four are members of the United Kingdom and so you cannot be a colony of yourself. Just as Texas is not the same as California and Texans are not Californians but neither is a colony of the rest. They are all Americans.
All four, including Northern Ireland, can leave the United Kingdom if they wish. As of today a majority in each nation wishes to remain within the UK.
Posted by: Jack Donnelly | June 16, 2008 9:04 AM
She is both Irish and British, in the same way as someone from Cardiff is Welsh, and British. Where PZ went wrong with the phrasing was "in charge of the country's health care" where the 'country' was implaied to be the RoI. (So yeah, PZ, you should have said 'Northern Irish'.)
And BrendanH #6: this demonstrates absolutely nothing about Northern Irish culture as a whole, merely that Iris Robinson is a homophobic git. We have those on the mainland as well.
Posted by: InnerBrat | June 16, 2008 9:04 AM
See, this is the kind of think which makes me wish there was a praty standing on a platform of pulling Great Britain out of the United Kingdom.
Posted by: Matt Heath | June 16, 2008 9:07 AM
- Dianne
1) The inhabitants get to vote in UK elections.
2) The majority in NI want to remain in the UK.
3) That may change, and if it does, they will be able to vote themselves out. Most Catholics want to join Ireland, and until recently they had a considerably higher birthrate than the Protestants (others make up an insignificant minority). However, Catholic birthrates have recently fallen as their economic position has improved (and I'm sure they're all relying on Roman roulette ;-) ).
Posted by: Nick Gotts | June 16, 2008 9:07 AM
Jack and Nick: Thanks. I misunderstood the implication of "full constituent nation" which sounded to me like it was considered a separate country under the "protection" of the UK rather than being fully part of the UK (i.e. like Puerto Rico is to the US rather than like California is to the US). Also I thought "British" referred to a person who was a citizen of the UK so was confused by the references to N Ireland being "un-British". Does "British" really only refer to people who live in England?
Posted by: Dianne | June 16, 2008 9:19 AM
Gee... Talk about living in the past!
Homosexuality was dropped from the DSM some 35 years ago. It's also well known that a person who has identified and reconciled his or her sexual orientation and sexual identity exhibit healthier psychological function than a person who has not.
What Iris Robinson advocates is harmful. How typical of "faith-based" approaches to mental or physical health! She should be removed from her position of authority. Immediately.
'Reparative' therapy: does it work?
Posted by: Kseniya | June 16, 2008 9:20 AM
I'd say that the fact that she made these comments betrays the fact that she doesn't actually think of homosexuality as an illness to begin with, since if she did, she'd be more compassionate.
Well, clearly she thinks it is a "disorder" in the same class as "psychotic mass murderer" is a mental disorder. Clearly, there are few who would be compassionate if a mass murderer was beaten to a pulp in the streets, yet still say that he is sick and needs psychiatric treatment.
Posted by: SteveM | June 16, 2008 9:20 AM
Innerbrat #26: this demonstrates absolutely nothing about Northern Irish culture as a whole
Sadly, yes it does. I grew up there, and lived in Belfast and north Antrim until my late 20s - and belive me, she is absolutely and utterly typical of the place. It is infested with evangelical and fundamentalist morons and thugs and frankly I'm very glad to be shot of it. It's a lovely place but it's largely inhabited by knuckle-dragging trolls.
Posted by: Joe | June 16, 2008 9:22 AM
She is of course, a "born again Christian" (from the BBC1 interview).
"I'm defending the word of God" , What a twot !
This is Britain (not the US) and I think they are going to manage to get her fired from her current position.
That would be very nice.
Posted by: negentropyeater | June 16, 2008 9:23 AM
Dianne -
The misunderstanding is that thinking the UK or Britain is one nation, or more commonly England.
The UK is one nation-STATE but is made up of four nations itself that existed centuries before they came to gether to form Great Britain and then the United Kingdom. Namely, England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
England is not Great Britain, it is merely one of the nations, although by far the biggest. It is better to think of the UK as a federation like the old Yugoslavia or the USSR, except I think much closer.
Great Britain = England + Scotland + Wales
The United Kingdom = Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
Hence, The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
Hope this helps.
Posted by: Jack Donnelly | June 16, 2008 9:28 AM
Technically, Great Britain is the island with most of England, Scotland and Wales on it ("Great" as in the biggest of the British archipelago). The name of the country is "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland", which is a bit cumbersome, but describes the fact that Northern Ireland isn't actually geographically part of Great Britain. Most people in the UK call themselves English, Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish, but when they need to describe their relationship to the state, they say "British" because "Great British and/or Northern Irish" is a bit long. Like citizens of the USA call themselves American, because United Statesian sounds silly.
Posted by: chris y | June 16, 2008 9:29 AM
Dianne: It is probably possible to argue the "British" should refer to Great Britain (i.e. England, Wales and Scotland) but usually it means "of the U.K." (even on legal forms and stuff).
I think people were using "Un-British" in the same way one might call pockets of constitution-hating theocrats in the States "Un-American". i.e. saying that DUPtards are opposed to British values of fair play and tolerance.
In doing this, they may have been flattering my homeland somewhat; there are plenty of bigotted scumbags through Britain.
Posted by: Matt Heath | June 16, 2008 9:30 AM
A caveat to the above is that Ireland was a member of the United Kingdom but left. Controversially the vote went to the counties of Ireland rather than the nation as a whole and the counties that wanted to stay became Northern Ireland.
That is where the "troubles" comes from, or at least the modern troubles.
Posted by: Jack Donnelly | June 16, 2008 9:30 AM
Dianne@29 "British" is a contested term - since NI is not part of the island of Great Britain, it's reasonable to say its inhabitants are not British (the "Great" by the way, despite what our stupider patriots think, refers solely to physical size, originally serving to distinguish Great Britain from Brittany, or "Little Britain"). However, there's no neat alternative term meaning a citizen of the UK (I sometimes call myself a Ukanian), and as Jack says, the majority of NI's inhabitants would probably describe themselves as British. Culturally I'm both British and English (although I live in Scotland), and until the last few decades, most Welsh, Scots and English would have happily described themselves as British. Even within England, many people confuse "English" and "British", although this is becoming less common. All three parts of Britain now have considerable numbers who reject the term. My guess is that the UK may not last much longer.
Posted by: Nick Gotts | June 16, 2008 9:31 AM
People like these acquiring an education are like gold plating an onion; it will look very pretty on the outside but the core will still rot and stink to high heaven.
Posted by: ThePetey | June 16, 2008 9:33 AM
Who said that education doesn't make people less stupid, only more educated?
That wasn't stupid...
Posted by: Christophe Thill | June 16, 2008 9:34 AM
Dianne said:
No, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales are all separate countries (technically Wales is a Principality but the general idea is the same) within the UK and are, very definitely, NOT part of England, which is also a country within UK. People from all these Countries are called British.
The reference to NI as "un-British" refer to the fact that the politics and attitudes common there are considered (by other Brits) very different from the politics and attitudes found elsewhere in the UK.
Whether this is actually so any more is debatable, especially since the killings that marred NI politics mercifully petered out in the 90's (partly thanks to Bill Clinton) and Western Scotland has it's own share of similar sectarian problems.
Posted by: Lilly de Lure | June 16, 2008 9:36 AM
She could just as easily have stated, "I know a nice psychiatrist",
It's called "dialect", love.
(I am not really from Lancashire)
Posted by: Graculus | June 16, 2008 9:36 AM
"Leprechauns always looked suspiciously fey to me"
Perhaps it's because someone is always after his lucky charms...evidently, they're magically delicious!
Posted by: JASE | June 16, 2008 9:36 AM
It's a bit complicated by cultural concerns - Unionists in the North may say that they are British, not Irish - but generally British means from Britain, the island, all of which is in the UK but which is not all of the UK. See
here.
On the other hand, any part of the UK can be considered to be "un-British" if they differ significantly from what the speaker considers the essential spirit of Britishness, or just the majority attitude that he wants associated with the label. Saying that the people of state X are thoroughly un-American doesn't imply that state X is not part of the political entity that is the USA, for example.
Posted by: Morgan | June 16, 2008 9:38 AM
we're talking about Northern Ireland here, which is a little different.
When I was young and still going to the excessively bigoted private High School my parents put me in, things like being of Irish, Scottish, English and/or German descent were very important to ass-clowns that made up the student body.
Open racism, whether from the KKK pamphlets I found in my locker, to the open derision of Mexicans (despite they made the agricultural community work and many of their fathers well-off enough to send their kids to private school), Jews, and other ethnic groups was the way of it. It used to make me sick.
One of the side-bigotry issues was the IRA and it's bombing campaign. There were very few people descended from the English (I was one, not that the idiots could figure it out despite my English surname that's actually a small town in England). There were, however, a lot of Irish & Scots-Irish in the group. So the sympathy was for the brave "freedom fighters."
Anyway, I couldn't stand the racism and the support of the terrorist campaign. So after a year of this I decided to tell everyone I was French when they played their stupid games. But that I also had Irish blood, of which I was not proud and if I could isolate the Irish part of me, I'd cut it off.
Even if it was my dick.
Reading this women's words, I have those thoughts. Again.
Posted by: Moses | June 16, 2008 9:38 AM
"This is Britain (not the US) and I think they are going to manage to get her fired from her current position."
What?
This is Northern Ireland we are talking about. She'd certainly be kicked out of office if this was the UK parliment but its not. She is actually honestly speaking the actual beliefs of a substantial percentage of the Northern Irish population.
If you want to get a good handle on the US fundamentalist problem then you cannot ignore the historical roots which lie in Northern Ireland. Bishop Ussher calculating the 6000 year old age of the earth to John Nelson Darby's discovery and promotion of the 'rapture'have not been the only influences to come from Ireland (in those days there was no 'Northern' Ireland).
Posted by: Sigmund | June 16, 2008 9:39 AM
...and is effectively the Appalachia of the island of Ireland.
I remember my youth in the hill-country of Tennessee. The anti-catholic riots, the walled cities, the constant military presence... oh wait, I don't remember that at all!
We did a fair job of leaving that stuff behind us. We kept the rest of the stupidity, but not that shit.
Posted by: Sarcastro | June 16, 2008 9:56 AM
But that I also had Irish blood, of which I was not proud and if I could isolate the Irish part of me, I'd cut it off.
James Joyce would probably agree. I don't get the impression he was too fond of his home country.
Posted by: Dianne | June 16, 2008 10:02 AM
Has nobody read the full story?
This was her response to a brutal attack by homophobic thugs.
What's even worse about it is that as a member of the government, in charge of health no less, she didn't criticise the thugs, but told the gay man he should seek to cure himself.
As though he brought the attack on himself, and deserved it, for being gay.
Posted by: Akheloios | June 16, 2008 10:03 AM
The incident has been reported to the police as a hate crime, which will cause some cognitive dissonance among American First Amendment purists who would also like to see her get her come uppance.
Posted by: chris y | June 16, 2008 10:09 AM
Hmf. Nice work turning a discussion on extreme homophobia (which last I checked most countries have some representatives of) into a full-fledged Irish-hating fest. Ireland is fine, it has some horrible people (like everywhere else) and some fantastic people (like everywhere else). Making blanket comments about the Irish or Ireland = not much better than your homophobic friend Iris you claim to be so superior to. Jeez.
Posted by: Cassie | June 16, 2008 10:11 AM
Oscar Wilde was the greatest playwright of his age, the toast of London and friend to some of the wealthiest, best educated, most influential, most erudite and forward thinking scholars of the time, yet he was tried for homosexuality, thrown in prison for 8 years, exiled from London, and eventually committed suicide. How many of those friends do you think stood by him? Education cannot change a person's formative development or the basic assumptions of their society.
Posted by: Julian | June 16, 2008 10:15 AM
Are there ever homophobic incidents outside of religion? Seriously, I have never seen or heard of someone who was anti-gay, who did not get their homophobia from their religion. I imagine it's possible, but I've never encountered it. The usual argument in defense of religion, is that it is a tool for good or bad; there would be wars even without religion, etc. Can anyone enlighten me?
Posted by: Dennis N | June 16, 2008 10:16 AM
Cassie - Have you read the thread? :)
Iris Robinson would not see herself as Irish and does not hold an Irish passport.
I therefore fail to see this thread as an attack on Ireland.
Posted by: Jack Donnelly | June 16, 2008 10:16 AM
Thank you, Cassie, that needed to be said.
Posted by: Julian | June 16, 2008 10:16 AM
Sigmund,
still, Northern Ireland is part of the UK, and she has to obey the laws.
"The Police Service of Northern Ireland will investigate whether the wife of the province's First Minister is guilty of a hate crime after she called homosexuality disgusting,loathsome, nauseating, wicked and vile."
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-7861.html
If she is found guilty, do you think she will keep her position as chair of the Northern Ireland Assembly's health committee ?
I don't think that the fact that this is happening in Northern Ireland changes anything from if it were happening in any other part of the UK.
Posted by: negentropyeater | June 16, 2008 10:20 AM
There used to be a joke told about how when landing at Aldergrove, the airport for Belfast, the pilot would remind passengers to set their watches back 50 years. The said thing about the joke is how true it was (and still is) in some respects. Compared to the rest of the UK social attitudes in Northern Irelnd tend to be somewhat less enlightened.
Posted by: Matt Penfold | June 16, 2008 10:21 AM
Would anyone with an ounce of compassion describe schizophrenia as "disgusting, loathsome, nauseating, wicked and vile"? Absolutely not. She's not treating it as a mental illness. She's treating it as a sin. Her offer of "help" is a sham, but I'm sure that's already obvious to this crowd.
Blech.
Posted by: Nicole | June 16, 2008 10:23 AM
Oh shit, this thread's going to go to hell in a handbasket :o)
For the people asking questions, I'd recommend the Wikipedia article on Northern Ireland politics. Sure, it has POV editors on both sides, but it'll get rid of some of the most egregious misconceptions and misunderstandings and clue people in to the political/sectarian loading of toponymy and other labels and terminology there. If you randomly pick someone in Northern Ireland, it's pot luck whether they label themselves British, Irish, or Northern Irish. In reality, nobody can do any better than respect each individual's self-identification. It's damn-near impossible to say anything about Northern Ireland other than "the Giant's Causeway is really interesting" without pissing somebody off.
I reckon that that Northern Ireland politics has something in common with quantum mechanics: if you think you understand Northern Ireland politics, you don't understand Northern Ireland politics!
Posted by: Emmet Caulfield | June 16, 2008 10:23 AM
negentropyeater - She will not be prosecuted. People in the UK still believe in Free Speech - regardless how offensive it is to most people.
Posted by: Jack Donnelly | June 16, 2008 10:24 AM
Sounds like Catholic influence.
Enjoy.
Posted by: Tim Fuller | June 16, 2008 10:24 AM
Tim Fuller - You couldn't be more wrong if you said George Bush was influenced by his local mosque! :)
Posted by: Jack Donnelly | June 16, 2008 10:28 AM
> That's rich! Considering the (in closet), alleged, gay population
> (catholic) priesthood.
# 8,
Iris is an Ulster unionist, those people are diehard presbyterians and have spend the last 400 years hating the catholic church, although inter-sectarian relations might have improved nowadays. Probably she considers all catholic priests gay at best, pedophiliac at worst.
> There were, however, a lot of Irish & Scots-Irish in the group.
> So the sympathy was for the brave "freedom fighters."
# 45,
Scotch-Irish protestants - as opposed to catholic Irish - backing the IRA? That sounds like the black chapter of the KKK to me (At least when it comes to the 20th century. Some presbyterian intellectuals experimented with protestant/catholic cooperation against the English in the late 18th/early 20th century. But the only practical outcome was the Irish flag: Green for the catholics, orange for the protestants, white for peace).
Posted by: johannes | June 16, 2008 10:30 AM
Matt Penfold said:
Unfortunately regarding homosexuality it's only a matter of degree. It took a long and nasty campaign to get rid of the Homophobic Section 28 legislation in Scotland (legislation that forbade schoolteachers "promoting" (ie discussing at all) homosexuality in schools) post-devolution. Although they might have been more polite about it in public I find it hard to believe that those trying to keep the legislation on the books hold attitudes towards homosexuality that differ greatly from those of Iris Robinson.
Bendy Wendy might not be my favourite politician at the moment (to put it mildly) but she at least had the guts to stand up to that bunch of homophobic bigots.
Posted by: Lilly de Lure | June 16, 2008 10:31 AM
negentropyeater,
I think you're absolutely right. I would be astonished if she still has a job by close of business tomorrow. I think the only question is whether she'll be allowed the 'dignity' of resigning (no doubt she'll argue her statements were taken out of context).
Posted by: Andy C | June 16, 2008 10:35 AM
Thus spake Tim Fuller:
LOL. Priceless! She'd love that! AFAIR, the Robinsons are Pentecostal.Posted by: Emmet Caulfield | June 16, 2008 10:35 AM
I'm in no way defending Iris Robinson (I would be the last I really dislike the woman) but she did not actually say that homosexuality was "disgusting, loathsome, nauseating, wicked and vile", she said it was "an abomination" to which the host then rhymed off all the words describing the word abomination, she didn't at any point use the words disgusting, loathsome, nauseating, wicked and vile to describe gay people. She is also not in charge of health, she is chairperson of the health committee which scrutinizes, the work of the actually health minister Michael McGimpsey.
Posted by: C McCormick | June 16, 2008 10:36 AM
Education has nothing to do with this. The disagreement is over values, not matters of fact. If you think something is wicked and vile, changing your mind isn't as simple as going to school and learning that, according to the latest scientific evidence, it isn't actually wicked or vile after all.
The question of whether or not something is a mental illness is similarly values-laden. Whether or not something is an organic mental condition is a matter of fact, but classifying it as an "illness" depends on the judgment that it is in some way harmful or dysfunctional.
Posted by: Hylobates Lar | June 16, 2008 10:36 AM
Jack Donnelly,
it doesn't matter what the "UK believes", it matters, what is the law.
READ !
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/crime-victims/reducing-crime/hate-crime/
Posted by: negentropyeater | June 16, 2008 10:41 AM
I find it "disgusting, loathsome, nauseating, wicked and vile" that she might have authority over so much as a breakfast burrito!
Posted by: Claudia | June 16, 2008 10:42 AM
Lilly de Lure;
It was the same with the anti-discrimination in the provision of services bill. The catholic church - and other organisations, although the church was most voiciferous - screamed blue murder when told that they would have to open adoptions up to gay couples. The fact that their protest was even considered - much less took up press column inches - spoke volumes about how the government really considers gay rights.
Just like sexism, homophobia is alive an kicking throughout the UK. Just because a few laws have been passed banning discrimination, doesn't mean that the underlying intollerence isn't there. To all practical intents, the views expressed by Iris Robinson are not all that far departed from the English MP, Ruth Kelly.
Posted by: Armchair Dissident | June 16, 2008 10:45 AM
Claudia said:
Consider that seconded - hopefully negentropyeater is right and she won't for much longer!
Posted by: Lilly de Lure | June 16, 2008 10:47 AM
Can I also add that Mrs. Robinson is also a Member of The British Parliament. In fact in the recent debate in the House of Commons on Stem Cell research she spent 3 minutes quoting from the Bible.
Posted by: C McCormick | June 16, 2008 10:47 AM
negentropyeater - I'm afraid you have misunderstood belief with incident.
She will not be prosecuted for saying what she believes. There is still such a thing as freedom of speech.
She has not said that others must injure or hurt homosexuals. She will not be prosecuted - nor should she.
She may however lose her position as head of the committee.
Posted by: Jack Donnelly | June 16, 2008 10:49 AM
It's very unlikely that she will be sacked, she is the wife of the First Minister of Northern Ireland. Its expected that the DUP will reshuffle the positions of their Chairpersons very soon so expect her to become the new chairperson for Education very soon as the former chairperson for education has just been made Environment minister.
Posted by: C McCormick | June 16, 2008 10:51 AM
Ah - so I suppose that vicious beatings are also here recipe for curing bipolars, schizos, depressives and miscallaneous other 'crazies'?
Oh ... they already did that? Nevermind then ...
Posted by: Sili | June 16, 2008 10:52 AM
Sorry, PZ. Education's got next to nuttin' to do with bigotry. The name Watson immediately comes to mind. And there are so many others.
Bigotry seems a hardcore, down-in-the-muck-of-the-brain's-wiring kind of a thing. Some of it's amenable to reason and experience, but not all. I know some very well-educated anti-Muslims, homophobes, racists, and so on.
It is appallingly sad to think there is nothing about education that ensures an open mind towards others who are different. But I think it's probably true.
Posted by: tristero | June 16, 2008 10:53 AM
the Giant's Causeway is really interesting
Well, now you've gone too far. "Interesting" I could've taken, but "really interesting"? In your Irish dreams! Ever heard of the Everglades, the Grand Canyon, Yellowstone National Park? I thought you were a reasonable person, but J's right - you're a rabid anti-American bigot. Kiss my ass, Caulfield. ;)
By the way -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Heritage_Site#Lists_of_World_Heritage_Sites
(And boy am I glad now that I didn't make a comment to the effect that Robinson was probably drunk whe she said it. Instead, later I'll take out the shot glass my great-great-...-grandfather brought over with him during the Potato Famine, and toast to gay-rights defenders everywhere.)
Posted by: SC | June 16, 2008 10:57 AM
C McCormack said:
I also notice she was amoung the DUP MPs who's votes allowed Gordon Brown to extend the time prisoners may be held without trial to 42 days.
Evidently her education didn't help her understand the Principles of the Magna Carta any better than it did basic human rights.
Posted by: Lilly de Lure | June 16, 2008 10:57 AM
@McCormick # 75: ...The First minister of NI married that thing?
Posted by: Michelle | June 16, 2008 11:00 AM
SC, I feel an SNL reference coming on :o)
Dear Sir/Madam,
I'm shocked, shocked I tell you, ...
Posted by: Emmet Caulfield | June 16, 2008 11:02 AM
I said:
I meant held without charge not trial - sorry about that!
Posted by: Lilly de Lure | June 16, 2008 11:03 AM
Lilly de Lure,
that deal was all about money, it was a matter of I'll scratch your back and you'll scratch mine. Its been the way of parties in NI for years wait until a Prime Minister is in a position where he needs the votes of the smaller Irish parties and then hand them a wish list.
Posted by: C McCormick | June 16, 2008 11:03 AM
@Michelle #80
In Northern Ireland politics, (especially on the unionist side) everyone's married to everyone. It's like the political party version of FLDS.
Posted by: C McCormick | June 16, 2008 11:09 AM
So if she "believes" she should stir up hate against a certain group of people, in this case homosexuals, then that's protected by freedom of speech.
If it were so clear that she's not guilty of a hate crime, why would the police be investigating ?
Posted by: negentropyeater | June 16, 2008 11:15 AM
The PSNI have to investigate any complaint of hate crime they get. There was a similar case with one of her fellow DUP colleagues, Iain Paisley Jr. (who is also the son of the then First Minister the Rev. Iain Paisley) he said that homosexuality was disgusting or something to that effect. Nothing happened to him. (As a side note he eventually lost his job due to some dodgy dealings regarding house deeds and planning permission.)
Posted by: C McCormick | June 16, 2008 11:20 AM