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PZ Myers is a biologist and associate professor at the University of Minnesota, Morris.
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« An abortion poll! That's how to decide this contentious issue | Main | What is wrong with journalists? »
Category: Pointless polls
Posted on: June 23, 2008 4:46 PM, by PZ Myers
I don't understand this. The LA Times reports on a Pew Survey that reports that 92% of Americans have been deluded into believing in a god or universal spirit, and what do they do? They tag a poll onto it!
It looks like a bunch of Aberrant Americans have already found the poll, because it is returning results that don't line up well with the Pew poll … so let's go make it a little worse.
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Comments
One more question and I would've considered it altogether too time-consuming to crash.
Posted by: SC | June 23, 2008 4:56 PM
Voted! We are behind, come on fellow French soldiers and members of Liars & Fornicators Union, Local #666 get voting! :)
Posted by: Patricia | June 23, 2008 4:58 PM
Best part: the link to "Mixing Faith and Fashion at Forever 21":
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2008/06/mixing-faith-fa.html
Posted by: SC | June 23, 2008 5:02 PM
From the article,
This line kills me. They get to say that 'Hollywood appears to be a corrupting influence' and then excuse themselves by saying its the opinion of 'some' people.
Since the next line shows the exact statistics (56% not threatened), one has to wonder why the reporter thought this was an interesting finding...
Posted by: Ryan F Stello | June 23, 2008 5:03 PM
"The study also found that Protestants, who hold a majority status in the United States, are close to becoming a minority."
as opposed to what, I wonder?
Posted by: LightningRose | June 23, 2008 5:06 PM
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/R/REL_RELIGION_SURVEY?SITE=TNJAC&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
Another version that says "21 percent of self-identified atheists said they believe in God or a universal spirit, with 8 percent "absolutely certain" of it."
Posted by: Matt | June 23, 2008 5:07 PM
what is "universal spirit"?
http://www.universalspiritassociation.com/
Posted by: sdg | June 23, 2008 5:12 PM
Corrupting...? LOL. No. Reflecting.
Anyways, has anyone 'cept me lost count of the number of movies and TV episodes that rely on supernatural (and often religious) premises?
Posted by: Kseniya | June 23, 2008 5:13 PM
I always wonder how many are simply hedging their bets. I mean, why risk pissing off a "possible" tyrant-god?
They need polls that ferret out doubt. I'd bet that a significant percent of "believers" harbor doubts, but aren't going to indicate disbelief because of these.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: Glen Davidson | June 23, 2008 5:13 PM
New study shows americans are becoming more tolerant: http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20080623/us_time/christiansnoonepathtosalvation
I think this is good news.
Posted by: matt | June 23, 2008 5:14 PM
> it is returning results that don't line up well with the Pew poll
Q.E.D.
Posted by: bartkid | June 23, 2008 5:17 PM
I think I voted, it won't show me the results though...
Posted by: Amy | June 23, 2008 5:17 PM
Isn't vodka the universal spirit?
Posted by: dsimpson | June 23, 2008 5:18 PM
um, forget deluded Americans. that's nothing compared to the potential rise of Christianity in China ;)
~C
Posted by: ~C4Chaos | June 23, 2008 5:20 PM
So the vast majority of Americans feel that they have spiritual needs or questions that are best addressed by belief in some type of supernatural power. I think it's probably safe to assume that this number includes a fair number of scientists and other well-educated professionals, so these opinions are not the exclusive domain of the uneducated and illiterate.
Good for them. I hope it lends their lives a sense of meaning and purpose they might not otherwise have.
Posted by: Sloan | June 23, 2008 5:21 PM
For whatever reason, these two lines were cut from my previous comment:
[Less than] 92% of Americans can read
[Less than] 92% of Americans care what the LAT sez.
So, now:
Q.E.D.
Posted by: bartkid | June 23, 2008 5:21 PM
Ha! Make it a poll and we will not notice it! I voted negative on all. Of course 92% are demented and in the majority, but that does not make them sane, er, right!
Posted by: Holbach | June 23, 2008 5:25 PM
From what I can tell, it doesn't like firefox. I voted in IE though (currently, it's close to even)
Posted by: Chris | June 23, 2008 5:31 PM
To add to my comment @ #3, their religiosity has in no way stopped the owners of Forever 21 from exploiting sweatshop workers to produce their cheap crap.
Posted by: SC | June 23, 2008 5:32 PM
I hate polls like this. So 92% of Americans believe in "God or a universal spirit." That's like saying that 92% of Americans believe that wearing underwear is good. It doesn't tell you anything at all about the preferences of the people taking the poll (boxers, briefs, panties, grannies, thongs) OR necessarily invalidate the opinions of the people who think that undies are pointless. Not to mention the vast difference between the people who avidly push for a certain type of underwear, and the people who wish the rest of the world would just get their noses out of other people's pants, thank you very much.
Posted by: Jenni | June 23, 2008 5:37 PM
my quest to determine how pew defined "universal spirit" lead me to actually look at the report and i noticed something that MAY be an encouraging stat int there. in the "Conception of God" section, 60% believe in a personal god. i honestly would have expected it to be higher so maybe that is good. of course we would have to look at previous surveys to see if things are getting better/worse or not changing.
http://religions.pewforum.org/pdf/report2-religious-landscape-study-full.pdf
Posted by: sdg | June 23, 2008 5:41 PM
:o)
Posted by: Emmet Caulfield | June 23, 2008 5:47 PM
Current rankings:
Do you believe in Tinkerbell = 50.9% Yes.
How important is Tinkerbell in your life = 54.9% Not important
How often do you attend Tinkerbell worship services = 55.1% Never.
@bartkid #16: your less than signs were probably interpreted as HTML and 'illegal' or 'invalid' HTML is ignored and your lines were omitted.
Another HTML quirk I've noticed is that if you use the HTML for less than (<) then the code you entered in the preview window is replaced with the actual HTML representation. If you type (or paste) then preview and then post without re-doing the code then your code goes bye-bye.
Posted by: WRMartin | June 23, 2008 5:52 PM
From "Mixing Faith and Fashion at Forever 21," it says that each bag is inscribed with John 3:16.
I saw that exact same quote, randomly enough, on a package of fried fatback. If that doesn't signify how meaningless the quote is, I don't know what can.
Posted by: Sir Jebbington | June 23, 2008 5:54 PM
I've crashed so many of these things now I'm officially a poll troll moll.
Posted by: Bride of Shrek | June 23, 2008 6:00 PM
I don't quite understand this one.
21% of self-professed atheists believe in God.
How is that possible?
Posted by: MikeM | June 23, 2008 6:01 PM
Damn, we lost that poll on a belief in a god; I didn't think we could squash this one, what with the overriding number of morons who belief this shit. Maybe the creotards were wise to us and gathered all their insane guns together, using our method! Of course, it's just a freaking idiot poll so it does not make their ghost god any more alive!
Posted by: Holbach | June 23, 2008 6:05 PM
This was Couric's lead story tonight on CBS "News", for fuck's sake. What is wrong with people? I despair.
Posted by: Candy | June 23, 2008 6:33 PM
It's hard to take the poll that the sfgate article references as very seriously. Self-defined atheists who believe in, not just a god, but God?
I know Americans are silly, but come on...
Posted by: Dutch Delight | June 23, 2008 6:41 PM
If you read the study, over 40% do NOT believe in a personal god. I think that is good news.
And as others have pointed out, how can 8% of atheists be "absolutely certain" there is a god or universal spirit??
Ridiculous.
Posted by: Jay | June 23, 2008 7:02 PM
I did the poll, couldn't see the results, but what's with all the ads for labia plastic surgery at the bottom? Is that a California thing? I mean that's not a particularly attractive part of the body to begin with, what could they possibly be doing to make it better? Besides, unless you are a troubled young celebrity, who sees that area enough for it to even matter? I give up, America is doomed. ;^)
Posted by: Mena | June 23, 2008 7:04 PM
I don't like the "attending religious services" question. I go to religious funerals, but that's much less often than "a few times a year".
Anyway, all Noes are winning at the moment.
Afterlife insurance.Posted by: amk | June 23, 2008 7:26 PM
I hate poll questions with "and" and "or". Offering God OR [insert whatever here] obviously is going to inflate the "god" believers numbers.
Anyway I could not see the results of the poll and I can vote over and over.
Posted by: debaser71 | June 23, 2008 7:30 PM
Some what off topic; On the front page of this mornings LA Times was a pic of George Carlin wearing a t-shirt with jesus on it. One wonders how long they had to dig to find that particular picture. Am I alone in wondering why G.C. would be seen in a shirt like that? Was it photo-shopped?
Posted by: Bruce Breece FCD | June 23, 2008 7:37 PM
Speaking as part of the evil Hollywood machine that's corrupting the nation, I for one would just like to say;
"Woohoo! Go team!" :)
Posted by: Kyoseki | June 23, 2008 7:47 PM
Just goes to show you can prove anything with statistics. As that great American thinker Mark Twain once said, "There are three types of lies in the world; lies, damn lies, and statistics."
Posted by: Julian | June 23, 2008 8:08 PM
We've got "never" on the church attendance question almost to 60% good job, folks :)
Posted by: Julian | June 23, 2008 8:10 PM
On the question of how important is religion in my life, I regrettably had to answer "fairly important". (Or something like that.)
Though I despise religion in all its forms, the sad fact is that it imposes its rules and regulations, its distortions and fabrications, and its coercions and machinations upon me all the time. When I can go buy beer at 7am on a Sunday morning; when I can turn on the TV or read a newspaper and not have to endure empty platitudes to an invisible, all-powerful and invariably cheap idol; when I can freely and safely exchange my considered ideas about the nature of the universe in a public venue, without having to wonder if I will be assaulted for it on the street corner... then, and only then, may I conclude that religion no longer plays an important role in my life.
Posted by: BruceH | June 23, 2008 8:19 PM
Um, what? It's damned attractive. Not beautiful, mind you, but very good at attracting the vast majority of y-chromosome bearers.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Posted by: Glen Davidson | June 23, 2008 8:21 PM
Posted by: Emmet Caulfield | June 23, 2008 8:23 PM
Some good news in that Pew survey...if you look at Social and Political views about the Environment, ALL groups thought "Stricter environmental laws and regulations are worth the cost." Even the fundies...
Posted by: Doubting Foo | June 23, 2008 8:36 PM
Your first point is the same one that I made at #21 (although I do not know if it's fair to say "over" 40% since the table I looked at says 60% DO believe in a personal god). i think the summaries and headlines tell a different story than some of the individual numbers (for the record, i'm not claiming to have read the whole thing. i've only looked at a few of the tables but that's enough to show that the 92% is a bit misleading) don't get me wrong, i'm nowhere near satisfied that i live in a country where 60% of the people believe in a "sky daddy" but i am pleasantly surprised that that number is not higher. i know i'm essentially just reposting the same thing but i'm surprised that people are not more encouraged by this number. is it not surprising to others?
Posted by: sdg | June 23, 2008 9:14 PM
"This was Couric's lead story tonight on CBS "News", for fuck's sake. What is wrong with people? "
Must be all those darned atheist books. I guess people still need reassuring that most of them believe in that spirit thing and that atheism is just a passing fad like emo and trucker caps. "We're still godly! Therefore right! Don't listen to that one guy! God god god (not Allah)!" It's kinda nice to see them stirred up, really. How many books have been written in response to The God Delusion by now, two dozen? I'd like to see A** C****** beat that.
Posted by: Rey Fox | June 23, 2008 10:15 PM
Well, 'atheist' can mean someone who refuses to worship any deities, as well as someone who doesn't believe in them. It's perfectly possible to believe the Christian God exists and yet refuse to worship him on principle.
Posted by: coffeedryad | June 23, 2008 11:01 PM
75% of believers are 95% idiotic.
~Dan
http://jazzsick.wordpress.com/
Posted by: Dan | June 23, 2008 11:09 PM
Poll isn't showing results at the moment...
Posted by: CthaWorld | June 23, 2008 11:19 PM
Pew...that poll stinks.
Posted by: RT NZ | June 24, 2008 1:49 AM
coffeedryad@#44
"'atheist' can mean someone who refuses to worship any deities"
It does? I ain't buyin it.
Posted by: mandrake | June 24, 2008 1:56 AM
For those outside the US who'd like to crash, may I recommend:
hidemyass.com
Posted by: baz | June 24, 2008 7:08 AM
@#44: someone who refuses to worship a god is an anti-theist, not an atheist. See Christopher Hitchens' talk at the AAI conference on YouTube.
Posted by: baz | June 24, 2008 7:20 AM
"Universal spirit" I'd assume would be a pantheistic approach to God. Just as human beings are more than the sum of their parts, so to can the universe as a whole be more than the sum of its parts. Calling the synergy of all reality, God, doesn't seem like a stretch to me...
Posted by: msnthrop | June 24, 2008 11:50 AM
I was very encouraged to read in the Boston Globe that New Englanders (like me!) are least likely to say they are religious. The article (linked below) also says Massachusetts (my state!) "lags" behind the nation in the percentage of its residents who say they are certain that God exists. I think lagging is the wrong sentiment, especially since religious dogmatism is losing its general support, even in the US (its fundie support is another story). It's far more appropriate to say my state is among the leaders in the fight for rationality. But maybe I'm just gushing...
http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2008/06/pew_study_finds.html
Posted by: MarshallDog | June 24, 2008 1:01 PM
the more i hear and think about this survey, the more it pisses me off. setting aside, for a moment, that "universal spirit" is so "squishy" that it is meaningless, the results are being totally mis-characterized by several news outlets. i heard on msnbc this morning "92% of Americans believe in god". NO! that's not what the survey results say. if i did a survey where i asked "is either red or blue your favorite color?" and 92% said yes, could i say that red was the favorite color of 92% of the people? what's worse is that the breakdown (personal god vs. impersonal force) is readily available in the study but, from what i've seen and heard, is not being mentioned. it's very discouraging because it could have the effect of making doubters and/or non-believers feel less willing to express their doubts and/or lack of belief.
Posted by: sdg | June 24, 2008 1:02 PM
perhaps i should add, "but with varying conceptions of what red means - 60% believe red means red while 25% believe red means blue..."
i'm not saying that the "impersonal force" crowd doesn't have it's share of wackaloons but i would venture a guess that an impersonal force doesn't have the same dangerous and policy shaping influcence as papo 'o jebus does.
Posted by: sdg | June 24, 2008 1:10 PM
ERIC GORSKI is the AP reporter, who spread the "news" about 21% of atheists believe in God. This is partially the fault of the wording on the Pew Research website, and partially the fault of poor journalism. He used the wrong table.
The actual atheist numbers are 73% do not believe, 6% don't know/refuse/other, 6% not too certain/not at all certain, 7% fairly certain, and 8% absolutely certain.
The question was worded:
Do you believe in God or a universal spirit? [IF YES, ASK:] How certain are you about this belief? Are you absolutely certain, fairly certain, not too certain, or not at all certain?
http://religions.pewforum.org/pdf/table-belief-in-god-or-universal-spirit-by-religious-tradition.pdf
Posted by: Twon | June 24, 2008 4:29 PM
to #44, I don't think you can believe in a god of any kind if you are an atheist. If you believe in one, but don't want to worship it, you're still a type of theist aren't you? Just my wonderings...
That was always my understanding anyway...
Posted by: Snitzels | June 24, 2008 4:52 PM
Whether an atheist can believe in gods isn't the issue, is it? Self-identifying as an atheist doesn't imply being an atheist under any particular definition.
Posted by: Andreas Johansson | June 25, 2008 9:50 AM