…and this is a 
The Official Australian “Vent About World Youth Day” Thread
Category: Religion
Posted on: June 30, 2008 11:03 PM, by PZ Myers
I must have a lot of Australian readers, or the few of you are really upset about this, because I'm getting a rising volume of email about World Youth Day. This is a bizarre Catholic get-together for young people — bizarre because, well, the idea of a pack of Catholic priests herding a flock of young boys and girls into one central mass sounds like the preliminaries to a feeding frenzy to me — which is going to cost hundreds of millions of dollars, a substantial chunk of which is being subsidized by Australian taxpayers. Isn't it a bit peculiar that a secular government is paying for a massive membership drive for sectarian superstition? Furthermore, the Australian government is expanding police authority to restrict protests at the event, levying prohibitive fines for even trivial expressions of free speech.
All this for a goofy medieval religion that has decided that it needs to get jiggy with the young'uns to maintain its relevance.
Anyway, Australian atheists, agnostics, and secularists, you've got reason to be pissed off. The thread is yours.
Politics
Comments
Posted by: Brendon Brewer | June 30, 2008 11:08 PM
Bloody World Youth Day!
Is anyone here going to any protests? I've only heard about the NoToPope group, which seems OK, but are acting like gay rights is the only issue.
Posted by: Chris | June 30, 2008 11:11 PM
It's not quite as simple as spending taxpayer's money on a religious event. The pope is the head of state of a recognised nation. Yes, I'm pissed that a lot of the cost of what is effectively a big mass is funded, but the security and whatnot are expected when a head of state arrives.
I am looking forward to what the Chaser Team have planned...
Posted by: Coffeeassured | June 30, 2008 11:15 PM
I can't believe they have the arrogance to call it world youth day. Let alone the fact that they practically arm twisted the government into paying for something they could have easily afforded themselves.
They presume to call it world youth day even though it is a religious event that only caters for a single subsection of a single religion.
Posted by: Silver | June 30, 2008 11:16 PM
Oh yes, I hate this, and I don't even live in Sydney where the majority of traffic problems and freedom restrictions are taking place.
I'd love to protest this properly, but I doubt I can make it to Sydney during the event.
Posted by: Wowbagger | June 30, 2008 11:16 PM
Yeah, it's pretty sickening.
It kind of illustrates the power the head catholic in Australia, Cardinal George Pell, has over the government. He's given far more notice in the media than anyone of his insignificance (in real-world terms) should be.
We may be secular but the current prime minister, Kevin07, is a self-proclaimed catholic.
Posted by: Karl | June 30, 2008 11:19 PM
The first I ever heard of this was when I found a calender in the post office called "World youth day" and for every month there was a picture of an elderly man.
Posted by: CanadianChick | June 30, 2008 11:20 PM
isn't this a periodic event that's held in a different location each time? I'm sure I heard about it a few years ago too.
it's not just Aussies - the son of one of my coworkers is going there too - and my coworker got sucked into being a chaparone.
Posted by: ChemBob | June 30, 2008 11:21 PM
It's like an epidemic of superstitious nonsense being spread from brain to brain by a viral hoax gene! What sort of evolutionary pressures have caused this virus to thrive so completely on money, power and blind belief by its hosts in imaginary sky critters? And it seems to find its initial purchase in political leaders who then work to spread the virus by bringing those without immunity together for viral infusion via copious servings of cultured Kool-Aid!
Seriously, has the majority of humanity completely taken leave of its senses? Are things finally so bad in this world that people are looking for any easy way out even if that means adding oneself to a mass delusion that can't possibly resolve any of the serious issues that drove them to the abyss of irrationality?
Posted by: Bren | June 30, 2008 11:23 PM
>>We may be secular but the current prime minister, Kevin07, is a self-proclaimed catholic.
Actually he's an anglican.
Posted by: Coffeeassured | June 30, 2008 11:23 PM
@ #5 Wowbagger
To be entirely fair when Cardinal Pell tried to interfere with the vote on stem cell research practically everyone told him to get lost.
Posted by: MAJeff, OM | June 30, 2008 11:24 PM
Is World Youth Day is a dating service for priests?
Posted by: Brian English | June 30, 2008 11:27 PM
Yes MAJeff. I believe it is. Fucking insanity.
Posted by: Eric TF Bat | June 30, 2008 11:28 PM
>>the current prime minister, Kevin07, is a self-proclaimed catholic.
>Actually he's an anglican.
Which is barely a religion at all really. Just an excuse for a king to ditch an inconvenient wife (and an inconvenient extra layer of government, but never mind that).
Unfortunately, while Chairman Kevin is a dramatic improvement over the former Prime Rodent, he still has his flaws; a willingness to kowtow to the religious nuts is a major one.
My brother came up with bumper stickers that I quite liked:
World Youth Day 2008
One Stadium
500,000 Christians
What's Missing...?
Sponsor A Lion Today!
Posted by: Wowbagger | June 30, 2008 11:29 PM
#9:
My mistake. Apparently he was raised catholic, which was obviously the bit i remembered.
Posted by: Trevor Murray | June 30, 2008 11:32 PM
If there's an interesting world youth day even't going down in Caberra I'd be happy to go along.
Posted by: Patricia | June 30, 2008 11:35 PM
I read in a news blurb that the fine for wagging your weinie at the pope is $5500!
If only I could be in Oz for the pope parade I'd deck myself out in stringers of every sort of weinie and sausage I could find & carry a sign saying "Catholics Love Children".
Posted by: Trevor Murray | June 30, 2008 11:35 PM
Oh man I love that bumper sticker.
Posted by: the great and powerful oz | June 30, 2008 11:35 PM
Several councils in the Eastern Suburbs are urging people to
take the week off work, if they have leave available.
Right, I'll sacrifice MY damn holidays for some paedophile-protecting nazi lunatic and his minions.
Then again, the alternative is spending hours longer plowing through the closed roads and milling hordes to fight my way to work, while they flock to the confessional booths and generally choke up the city.
Bastards.
@ Brendon:
Apparently the NoToPope group plan to hand out millions of condoms. Since that's probably the most DIRECT way the Catholic Church is killing people off, seems fair to me!
Posted by: Derek H | June 30, 2008 11:38 PM
Now, if I ever hear any Protestant in America claim we shouldn't have a separation of church and state, I'll let them know that this is what it would be like.
Posted by: Phaedrus | June 30, 2008 11:42 PM
Our enlightened country is surely and slowly moving into the Dark Ages, which is a bit of a novelty, since it's the 21st century.
Our slide backwards started with the Olympic Games of 2000, when The System [cue dramatic music here] gained powers over when and where you could pass wind. Then, with the circus that was APEC last year, our civil liberties really went out the window (and hats of to the Chaser guys who showed up these pompous suits for what they really were). Unfortunately, this has now set what seems to be an acceptable precedent.
So now, when the Poop comes to town, all the machinery and "justification" is in place to make sure that we are totally inconvenienced to the MAX.
You know what? I'm tired of this crap. I'm tired of not being able to go from one side of the street to the other without fear of being body-searched because my shirt might be the wrong colour. APEC was bad enough, but "World Youth Day" (what a load of shit - since when is the Catholic Church the whole world, except in their eyes?) promises to be the ultimate lunacy. How is what we're turning into any different from living in the Eastern Bloc in the fifties? Seriously - no tin foil hats, just an honest question.
The politicians here that are responsible for this stupidity are, by and large, Old Boys from Catholic schools. Small wonder all of them are in arse-kissing mode. I couldn't believe my eyes when I read that most of inner Sydney is going to be under virtual lockdown because they want to stage their Stations Of The Cross pantomime. I have a friend who was raised a staunch Catholic, but when she grew up she got a brain and dumped it post haste. She told me the Stations Of The Cross parade is the most mind-numbingly boring thing she'd ever had to endure. So now, we will ALL have to endure it, because the circus has well and truly come to town.
You know, I wonder if there would be this much bending over if the Muslims had asked for the same deal and wanted to stage Mohammed playing water polo or something?
You bet your arse there wouldn't be.
The article quotes:
'But the State Government said "World Youth Day is a happy and positive celebration of youth" and "no additional or 'APEC-like' police powers have been granted under the World Youth Day regulations".
The Catholic Church denied it had called for such powers.'
Bollocks they didn't.
Last year, when there was a NSW parliamentary bill to overturn a ban on stem cell research, George Pell (our local leading Catholic Arse Kisser In Waiting) actually THREATENED Catholic members of parliament with excommunication if they didn't vote *his* way. So now, you expect us to believe that the church didn't at least drop a little whisper into the government's ear about the Ratzenberger Review flying into town?
This is extraordinary: "more than 40 city locations, including museums, galleries and cinemas, as well as Darling Harbour, the Opera House, the Harbour Bridge, Randwick Racecourse and parklands", "More than 500 schools across Sydney and 35 train and bus stations have also been listed as "declared areas". People entering them will be subject to vehicle and baggage searches that require them to remove jackets, gloves, shoes and headwear if requested. "Reasonable force may be used to effect the person's exclusion" if they do not permit the search, the regulations stipulate."
What have we turned into? This is INSANE.
Am I pissed off? HELL, YES!
Posted by: Michael | June 30, 2008 11:46 PM
The Sydney Morning Herald made the point that it'd cost 5,500 dollars in fines to wear an anti-catholic shirt or hand out condoms in protest, but only 1,100 if you were to perform an act of public indecency.
So it makes me wonder, if you went to a protest naked wearing a condom would that be $6,600? :)
Posted by: Ichthyic | June 30, 2008 11:48 PM
hmm, how to protest this...
encourage NAMBLA to have a conference right across the street?
then have someone write a journal article comparing/contrasting(?) NAMBLA and the CC.
Posted by: Goffer | June 30, 2008 11:49 PM
"Am I pissed off? HELL, YES!"
Then maybe you should join up and become a youth day participant. Then you can call the cops on anyone and everyone who annoys you...
Posted by: Mardonius | July 1, 2008 12:01 AM
First APEC, now this. I'm sick of the state government telling us when and where we can breathe just so a bunch of worshippers of a guy in a funny hat can invade our city.They say they wont put the excessive measures used for APEC in place (which included putting a massive wall right through the centre of the CBD, complete with police checkpoints and rooftop snipers)but in truth, they've been steadily granting police powers under our noses.
I'm not sure I can live in a city that cares more for the revenue from selling bobbleheaded saint dolls than the freedom and rights of it's citizens(not that we have any formal bill of rights). Norway is beggining to look very nice indeed
Posted by: Caveat | July 1, 2008 12:02 AM
We had one of these shindigs in TO in 2002. Major pain in the ass in every way.
Despite the mumbo-jumbo aspect, it's really just an excuse for the kids to mingle and hang out the way we all did in the 60s.
They had a gruesome play that went up University Avenue, a major street, which simulated the last hours of their god's kid's life.
It's such a morbid, bloodthirsty religion - but the clothes are to die for!
Posted by: Ichthyic | July 1, 2008 12:02 AM
Then you can call the cops on anyone and everyone who annoys you...
I keep thinking about that end-scene from the remake of "Body Snatchers" with Donald Sutherland pointing at the "human" and emitting that piercing "pod scream".
I mean, that's essentially what these organized religions end up producing after all, a bunch of fucking pod-people.
Posted by: Ichthyic | July 1, 2008 12:06 AM
... in fact, I just got a jones to watch that flick again; haven't seen it in about 20 years.
ah, gotta love torrents.
Posted by: Bride of Shrek | July 1, 2008 12:07 AM
The Legislation they are bringing in specifically for the event is so broad its wording possible allows for arrest and search powers for the junta (sorry- police), for as small a "protest" as wearing an anti-religo T-Shirt or handing out aforesaid condoms. It completely sucks that the NSW Gov is basically bending over, spreading both cheeks and telling the Catholics to come and enjoy themselves at the State's expense. I can't pretend this also couldn't happen in Qld but it bloody ahouldn't happen ANYWHERE. Appalling waste of time, money and commonsense.
Posted by: the great and powerful oz | July 1, 2008 12:12 AM
Hmm... maybe this is finally an opportunity for the Dob-In-A-Terrorist(TM) hotline to come into its own!
"Hello, there are some suspicious looking characters in robes doing some kind of a ritual... they're carrying something with smoke coming out of it... Oh no! Now they're getting into a big truck and heading towards the crowd! Better get the Special Operations Group in here quick!"
Posted by: Kel | July 1, 2008 12:14 AM
This is absolute bollocks, after the 127 million dollars we've spent to put on the event, giving them fucking porcelain toilets instead of portaloos, providing pilgrims with accomodation and now they want the right not to be offended as well? FUCK!
Maybe the reason that people are going to protest is because despite having everything handed to them on a silver platter they still claim persecution and suffering. For an organisation that has direct control over a billion people, who has the capacity to stop the spread of AIDS in Africa (which is resorting to a barbaric ritual as opposed to condom use), where priests who molest children are shifted to a new area rather than being given the public shaming they deserve, where the residents of the Vatican live in luxury using their power to laud over the genuinely starving and needy, and teaching people in the 3rd world to be happy in poverty while raking in whatever tithing they can to fund the grandeur of the church, keeping giving concessions and consolidating the power-base of an archaic institution should NOT be a priority of our government. And now to stifle speech and expression for those sycophants? Australia is slowly turning into a police state and it's doing so in the most underhanded way possible; through democracy.
So yeah, absolute load of bollocks. Fuck the pope, fuck Catholicism, and fuck the government for welcoming this parade of sycophants and subservients with open arms and a huge wad of cash.
Posted by: Cowcakes | July 1, 2008 12:16 AM
Its truly horrifying that the term "causing annoyance" is the parameter for being open to such legal sanctions. Talk about priming something for abuse.
I like many of my compatriots in Oz, apart from the waste of public funds and disruption, couldn't give a flying fuck what the deluded flock of god botherers did to waste their time and money. However when they bring in special draconian legislation to protect the poor sensitive little dears from being annoyed I look at it as being an all out attack on democracy.
Not wishing to overburden our already overstretched police, I still hope that this legislation brings out the anti authoritarian spirit for which we are known and floods the streets with protesters against these wankers.
The old Monty Python gag of "Nobody expects a Spanish Inquisition" has unfortunately found form in my home.
Posted by: Ichthyic | July 1, 2008 12:16 AM
It's such a morbid, bloodthirsty religion - but the clothes are to die for!
they stole much of the "cool" clothing from previous pagan religions, the bishop's mitre for example, being exactly comparable to the hats worn by Dagon head priests.
oh hell, it's just LOADED with pagan symbolism:
http://www.remnantofgod.org/images/IGC/pagan-rcc.htm
and of course...
http://altreligion.about.com/library/glossary/symbols/bldefsvesica.htm
Posted by: Tim | July 1, 2008 12:20 AM
I attended WYD in Denver back in 1994 (that was the beginning of high school for me). I remember it being an interesting place where we met interesting people from all around the world. The faith inspiration didn't stick over time (and I've joined the forces of science), but at the time my only complaints were the long bathroom lines and price gouging by McDonalds. It sucks that the Australian government is getting so involved with this.
Posted by: Michael | July 1, 2008 12:28 AM
Theres a typical useless poll up:
http://www.smh.com.au/polls/national/form.html
Posted by: Shishberg | July 1, 2008 12:32 AM
Most of next week I'll be in Cairns for my cousin's wedding, and will be flying back into Sydney on the Sunday before WYD. So I'll be jostling through crowds of jetlagged Catholics to get home. With a hangover. Oh, and half of Qantas will probably be on strike.
And it'll cost me $5500 to complain about it.
Fucking Iemma.
Posted by: clinteas | July 1, 2008 12:35 AM
As the commenters before me have pointed out,this is disturbing on so many levels :
The fact that a state government will sponsor with millions of taxpayer's dollars a gathering of organized pedophiles under the blanket of a "world youth day" is one thing,but to restrict people's right to freedom of expression is something completely different,and Im a lil surprised Im not hearing more about this in our media(then again,the Australian media is about as capable of critical journalism as the media in Zimbabwe,and not because they are being oppressed).
To legally hold a whole city ransom for a month and restrict movements and expression of its residents so not to piss off the Pope(or who else??) is really beyond contempt.I cant give out a condom to a catholic person or wear a T-shirt of my choice without risk of being arrested or paying more that I would have to for flinging my dick in someone's face? Gotta be kidding me,what are we,a police state?
And as to Kevin 07,its becoming clearer by the minute that this chap is a real weirdo,his pandering to the religulous right during the campaign should have been a warning to all of us .
Posted by: Shishberg | July 1, 2008 12:35 AM
Speaking of which... why does World Youth Day run for nearly a week?
Posted by: Phaedrus | July 1, 2008 12:39 AM
#37: "Speaking of which... why does World Youth Day run for nearly a week?"
Because if the universe was created in 7 days, and each day can be millions of years (never doubt creation science) then a day can be a week. Geeez, didn't you learn anything at school?
Posted by: Jess | July 1, 2008 12:41 AM
I think the Australian government wet itself in excitement about the prospect of someone considered as "important" as the Pope deigning to visit our fair country. There's this culture of striving to be taken seriously on an international scale, whatever the context, but usually the efforts result in us ending up with poor man's versions of various events. So when OMG OMG OMG God's representative on Earth bothers to visit, the government will bend over backwards to make things go as perfectly as possible because, hey everyone, this is Australia's time to shine! Except it's not, because suddenly we're descending into stupidity in order to accommodate the event, with suppression of free speech and criticism and with the expenditure of taxpayer dollars from people who no doubt have absolutely no interest in those dollars going towards stupid pointless Catholic shenanigans.
Chris @ #2, I desperately hope the Chaser guys have something of great quality planned, possibly on the level of their APEC stunt. Hopefully they'll find some sort of legal technicality to exploit.
Posted by: Kel | July 1, 2008 12:43 AM
@clinteas #36
In defence of KRudd, all this was organised prior to his election, it was mainly John Howard's doing to bring WYD to Australia, he's bound by obligation.
His religious characteristics are still somewhat of an unknown quantity, as yet he is yet to wear it on his sleeve like Abbott used to do. Though he's still got over 2 years before the next election to completely violate church and state so I guess we need to keep an eye out.
Posted by: Shishberg | July 1, 2008 12:44 AM
I went to an Anglican school. So... no.
Posted by: Phaedrus | July 1, 2008 12:52 AM
#41: "I went to an Anglican school. So... no."
And that's why we should bring Intelligent Design into our schools, so that we may ed-yoo-kate our kids properly!
Posted by: Shishberg | July 1, 2008 12:52 AM
@39
Hey, maybe we could book out Randwick Racecourse and fly PZ out here for World Rationalists Day! And we'd make it illegal for anyone to do anything to offend nonbelievers (i.e. preach or discuss religion in any positive way) in public anywhere in, say, a 20k radius.
Yeah, that'd happen.
Posted by: ThinkDifferent | July 1, 2008 12:52 AM
This is a government (NSW State) where they seem to make draconian and inane laws at the drop of a hat instead of making our hospitals, roads and public transport work. A government where even those of the same political party are saying they've been in a term too long. They want to seem active and populist but really just threaten our civil rights. I wish we'd imported the Bill of Rights from the US.
Posted by: Jason | July 1, 2008 1:07 AM
Has no-one posted a link to Sydney Atheists yet?
We have some actions planned but need headcount. Please, get in touch and assist.
Btw, after reading today's story on the expanded police powers, I'm quite resigned to being arrested, and have told my boss as much... "Sorry boss, might not be in after WCYD"...
Posted by: Stuee | July 1, 2008 1:10 AM
The Australian Constitution section 116 states that the Commonwealth "shall not make any law for establishing any religion, or for imposing any religious observance, or for prohibiting the free exercise of any religion, and no religious test shall be required as a qualification for any office or public trust under the Commonwealth."
In light of this, taxpayer funding of this event seems to me to be highly unconstitutional. Then again, I have no legal background. Maybe someone who does could shed some light on the matter?
Posted by: Paul | July 1, 2008 1:19 AM
I make shirts, and I'll be making some specifically for this event (although I can't take any responsibility for anyone getting fined as a result - I'm just a little bit poor).
I invite anyone to suggest a slogan or design that is more subtle than I can manage - one that might get the message across without being immediately obvious (and less likely to get you fined, I suppose).
Posted by: Kel | July 1, 2008 1:20 AM
I don't see how funding it breaks the constitution, it's not like they are forcing religion on us any more than funding the State of Origin is forcing Rugby League on us.
In terms of funding, it's a public event and there are many public events funded that don't cater to everyone's taste. This is just another case of that. But when it's one of the richest organisations in the world getting that funding, it seems a bit counter-intuitive. Surely the catholic church could put on the event without the need for over $100,000,000 of our money to pay of it.
Posted by: Shishberg | July 1, 2008 1:32 AM
#47:
Two unlinked ring-pulls? I'd buy one.
Posted by: Charlie Foxtrot | July 1, 2008 1:34 AM
It'd be nice to think that the annual Gay Mardi Gras gets a bigger turn out, but I s'pose the Godbots will stack the numbers somehow - probably by busing in ambivilent Catholic schoolkids.
What a disappointment...
Posted by: shane | July 1, 2008 1:34 AM
Methinks the whole point of the new law was to stop Chaser type stunts. Couldn't nail them on existing laws so they've passed a stupid fucking law to prevent any stunts for the next month or so. Fuckers.
Just so we can also engage in a bit of Queensland bashing we can't forget the cop in Qld with nothing better to do than arrest a kid wearing a t-shirt. I read about originally on the Crikey website but the Richard Dawkins site now has something about it... Jesus is a cunt t-shirt
Posted by: Patricia | July 1, 2008 1:36 AM
Just a minute, where the hell is the Child Shaggers Union, Local #667 in Australia? Don't they have any pride!?
I suppose someone from the fair fundie state of Oregon is going to have to be dispatched to show you Aussies how to build a proper flowery float depicting genocide, child molesting, and witch burning.
Oh & just so you Aussies know we Americans have pride - your sheep shagging float will be matched by the teams from Shaniko & Fossil, Oregon. So there, put that in your vegamite & smoke it. ;)
Posted by: Ichthyic | July 1, 2008 1:36 AM
I don't see how funding it breaks the constitution, it's not like they are forcing religion on us any more than funding the State of Origin is forcing Rugby League on us.
then you need to open your damn eyes.
using taxpayer money to subsidize the practices of a specific religion is indeed forcing that specific religion on to the general population, defacto.
or did you think your government had plans to subsidize all the other religions of the world in the same fashion?
think they will be subsidizing Falun Gong to have a feng shui teach-in next week, eh?
hey, it's not even my government, and I can still see the problems with what they are doing.
Posted by: Wowbagger | July 1, 2008 1:36 AM
#47
How about this, like one of those motivational posters:
A picture of a priest in full regalia
Cognitive Dissonance
Because, deep down,
we know this shit ain't gonna fly
Posted by: Shishberg | July 1, 2008 1:45 AM
#53:
There's a difference between "idiotically problematic" and "unconstitutional". As stupid as the whole thing is, it's not forcing the practice of a particular religion on anyone. Australia has less legal restrictions on public funding of religion than the US does (at least in theory). A lot of schools are quite openly religious, even public ones. IANAL of course.
It sucks, but it is (probably) legal.
Posted by: shane | July 1, 2008 1:45 AM
Cardinal Pell is considered to be a bit of power broker in the church and was a Joe the Nazi backer. He is an outside chance to be popefied when Joe karks it.
In 1959 he signed with the Richmond Football Club. He decided not to play and went to the seminary. As an old has been footballer he'd have been harmless now he is a big dangerous prick. Sometimes I see him in up in the stadium behind me when I go watch the Sydney Swans play. He usually sits with Mike Willesee. Another catholic... person, who won a bent spoon award from Australian Skeptics in 1999.
Posted by: Kel | July 1, 2008 1:45 AM
How so? no-one is forcing anyone to attend, no-one is forcing anyone to even listen, it's just providing funding for a public event that will have people from all over the world attend.
I'm an anti-theist as the next guy, I just don't see how it's any different to public funding of sporting events.
Posted by: clinteas | July 1, 2008 1:49 AM
Im with Ichthyic on this one Kel,I think it is without any doubt the preference of one particular religion over many others what were seeing,and its getting taxpayer-funded,it is a disgrace if ive ever seen one.
Maybe Bride of Shrek can help us out on the constitutionality issue,not sure myself,but if this isnt state-sponsored religion,then I dont know what is.
Posted by: Paul | July 1, 2008 1:50 AM
"no-one is forcing anyone to attend"
Isn't half of Sydney being turned into catholic territory?
Posted by: ChrisC | July 1, 2008 1:53 AM
Does anyone find it odd that "world youth day" has, as it's climax, a mass led by a very elderly man?
Oh well... I'm very pleased I've moved interstate from Sydney just before the storm broke.
Posted by: shane | July 1, 2008 1:59 AM
Unfortunately there is no constitutional protection for freedom of speech in Australia. The High Court has said it is implied though. As long ago as 1942 a constitutional convention recommended an amendment that would prevent the Commonwealth or a State passing laws which curtailed freedom of speech or of the press. Of course nothing happened.
More on our lack of freedom of speech here.
Funnily enough freedom of religion is spelled out in the constitution.
Posted by: Shishberg | July 1, 2008 2:01 AM
#58:
Look, we're all in agreement that it's a disgrace. The question is whether it's an unconstitutional disgrace. Look at what section 116 says:
Nowhere does that say that the government can't fund a religious event. It says that they can't establish a religion (e.g. start the Official Church of Australia), or force anyone to observe a religion, or prevent them from doing so. World Youth Day doesn't do any of those things.
Not everything bad is illegal.
Posted by: Ichthyic | July 1, 2008 2:02 AM
I'm an anti-theist as the next guy, I just don't see how it's any different to public funding of sporting events.
you don't see the difference between organized religion and professional sports?
I'm torn by that response. On the one hand, I'm happy the next generation apparently is wonderfully ignorant of the influences of religion...
OTOH, I lament the fact they seem to be ignorant enough to compare professional sports with religion.
that said, if you want to compare (just from a technical standpoint), it would be like your government subsizidizing a specific professional sports team over any other.
like if the US Federal government all of a sudden decided that the New York Yankees were to be the only taxpayer subsidized professional sports team in the US.
you don't see a problem with that?
seriously?
Posted by: Charlie Foxtrot | July 1, 2008 2:02 AM
Meh - I thought I remembered hearing this... and after a very quick bit of Google-Fu I've dug this up:
From here... link
I guess we're doing pretty well as a secular nation, given we'd have a hard time in court over this, it seems...
still not happy about it.
Posted by: shane | July 1, 2008 2:06 AM
Thought of getting out of town for the weekend of the big bash, you know, head down the coast to the parents place for a bit of R&R... but it appears that my dear old folks are billeting a couple of these fucking catholic freeloaders. In my old bedroom for fucks sake. Fuck.
Posted by: clinteas | July 1, 2008 2:09 AM
@ No 65,SHane :
Hey,they might be some hot chicks from Sweden mate !
Posted by: Wowbagger | July 1, 2008 2:09 AM
I suspect that, despite the draconian laws that the church has managed to convince the government to bring in for the occasion, there's going to be a lot of protesting and general carrying-on while it's happening. We can just hope it turns out to be a complete PR disaster for Ratzi & co.
I don't have a link to confirm but I'm sure I've heard it's not looking to be as well-attended as they'd hoped.
Posted by: shane | July 1, 2008 2:13 AM
I was in Uganda almost 2 years ago. Way out in the bush looking for gorillas and chimps (highly recommended btw). One afternoon, back at camp, a 4WD rocked up and a couple of Ugandans got out and chatted with us. Nice guys. However, turns out one of these guys was a catholic priest and as soon as he heard we were from Sydney it was an all WYD conversation. He was really angling for some free accommodation for him and some friends who were heading for Sydney for WYD. I gave him a fake email address of course.
Posted by: Praxiteles | July 1, 2008 2:14 AM
C'mon Aussies.
Time to stop whingeing and do something about it.
Join the Australian Secular Party at http://www.secular.org.au/index.php
We're just shy of the numbers needed to be recognised as an official political party by the Australian Electoral Commission. Go to the website and join up while it's still free, and make a difference at the next Federal Election.
It's time to put a stop to this rubbish. Join now!
Posted by: M | July 1, 2008 2:17 AM
Pissed off? Yes.
Staying the hell away from Sydney that week? Totally.
Wondering what the Chaser boys will do? Can't wait to find out.
Posted by: Kel | July 1, 2008 2:19 AM
I see the difference. I also see the difference in helping host a one-off event and forcing religion down the throats of the population. It's a one-off event that will drag in hundreds of thousands of tourists, the government has a vested interest in ensuring it's success. Like I've said, I don't agree with public funding an organisation that is already incredibly well off and could pay for it themselves with the tithing of an impoverished country. I just don't see how a one-off event is violating the separation of church and state, especially in a country where we fund religious schools and hospitals.Posted by: shane | July 1, 2008 2:20 AM
Clinteas @#66, I reckon most of the supposedly 54000 Eurotrash heading our way for the shindig are probably Italian, Spanish, French or Bavarian. However, the Euro chicks from these countries are vastly underrated in comparison to the Swedes anyway IMHO. Oh, and the better half wouldn't be too thrilled if I took a more than cursory interest in any giggling freeloaders.
Praxiteles @#69, voted Secular in the last election and will continue to do so.
Posted by: clinteas | July 1, 2008 2:22 AM
@ No 70 :
Whats next,the Australian Sports Party? Australian Knitting Party? Australian Weather Party?
I have a problem with this fellow atheist/secularist/religionist stuff,theres such a broad spectrum of views and opinions regarding stuff amongst any given group,that it hardly makes sense to pick out one particular field of interest and have a Party to that cause.
Posted by: clinteas | July 1, 2008 2:23 AM
Sorry,was meant to be No 69,not No 70.
Posted by: Kel | July 1, 2008 2:23 AM
Was going to vote for the secular party last election, but it wasn't on the ballot in the ACT.
Posted by: Ichthyic | July 1, 2008 2:25 AM
I also see the difference in helping host a one-off event and forcing religion down the throats of the population.
you don't understand how ideas compete, do you.
*shrug* I simply don't have time to educate you in basic social studies.
I'm sure there are excellent books on the subject someone could recommend.
Posted by: shane | July 1, 2008 2:27 AM
Clinteas have a look at the Secular party's platform. It is a pretty reasonable attempt at platform many rational people can get behind. Very Australian in many ways.
Posted by: Ichthyic | July 1, 2008 2:27 AM
I just don't see how a one-off event is violating the separation of church and state, especially in a country where we fund religious schools and hospitals.
as with the comparison to professional sports, you seem to miss the important bit:
what is the FUNCTION of a hospital?
to teach religious dogma?
no?
beginning to see the difference yet?
If not, I really can't help you.
Posted by: Kel | July 1, 2008 2:27 AM
No need to get condescending
Posted by: Shishberg | July 1, 2008 2:27 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outdoor_Recreation_Party
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fishing_Party_%28Australia%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_Excise_Fuel_and_Beer_Party
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEMP_Party
Not saying this is a good thing... just, y'know, there's a precedent.
Posted by: shane | July 1, 2008 2:32 AM
The quote below regarding freedom of religion in Australia is from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Australia
Posted by: Wowbagger | July 1, 2008 2:32 AM
Er, Clinteas? There are a number of parties just as nonsensical as those - and more - if the last ballot paper I saw is anything to go by.
There's a Shooter's Party for crying out loud. And no, I don't mean the National Party - they seem to have forgone the gun-toting vote. Which made it hard for some people whose rationale against the gun buy-back is that people on cattle properties (ranches to you US folk) needed them to protect themselves.
I was never sure what from - it was late 20th century Queensland, not the wild west. There aren't too many roving gangs of thugs up there. Unless you include rugby league clubs...
Posted by: Jason | July 1, 2008 2: