Pharyngula: We've lost George Carlin!

#1

Posted by: Benjamin Geiger | June 23, 2008 9:05 AM

'Tis a sad day indeed. One of the great voices for reason has been silenced.

#2

Posted by: shyster | June 23, 2008 9:13 AM

Shit, piss, fuck, cunt, cocksucker, motherfucker and tits.
George Carlin died and I will miss him for both his wit and his irreverence.

#3

Posted by: Zeno | June 23, 2008 9:14 AM

George Carlin to me has always been a shining example of recovery from Roman Catholicism. I just watched his bit on the Ten Commandments again and especially appreciate his codicil to his reduced version of the decalog: Keep your religion to yourself.

#4

Posted by: Ray | June 23, 2008 9:16 AM

My wife and I just saw his show in Roanoke, VA a few months ago. His routine was very funny but he didn't look great. I was hoping he would have many more years left. As was said: A sad day indeed.

Cheers,
Ray

#5

Posted by: clinteas | June 23, 2008 9:16 AM

Read somewhere he had bypass surgery twice in the 80s,and walked into a Hospital with chest pain on Sunday...Probably wasnt much they could do for him...

I wasnt familiar with him at all until i got onto Scienceblogs,but had since seen and listened to many of his programs,and he was just utterly clear,sharp and to the point,and very very funny.A big tragic loss.

#6

Posted by: LisaJ | June 23, 2008 9:24 AM

Very sad news, indeed. We've definitely lost an incredible member of our team. His honesty, clarity, and incredible humour will be missed.

#7

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | June 23, 2008 9:25 AM

One of his best bits from recent history

the 10 Commandments

#8

Posted by: mayhempix | June 23, 2008 9:27 AM

Seven words for George Carlin:

Funny
Insightful
Brilliant
Irreverent
Logofile
Atheist
Hero

#9

Posted by: Kylgar | June 23, 2008 9:30 AM

Gee, he was just there a minute ago...

#10

Posted by: Kane Gruber, FCD | June 23, 2008 9:30 AM

Damn it all to hell.

#11

Posted by: Dahan | June 23, 2008 9:38 AM

A true loss. How long until we hear a false claim that he had a "deathbed conversion"?

#12

Posted by: Allytude | June 23, 2008 9:39 AM

yeah it was somber note to start monday with :(

#13

Posted by: Derik | June 23, 2008 9:41 AM

Completely sucks major ass.

RIP George

#14

Posted by: Ken McKnight | June 23, 2008 9:43 AM

I first heard of George Carlin in about 1968 from my high school biology teacher. He thought Carlin was hilarious and used to play cuts from his album in class. I especially remember the Hippy Dippy Weatherman. Can you imagine any teacher today daring to play Carlin's material in class? Rest in peace, George.

#15

Posted by: Brett McCoy | June 23, 2008 9:43 AM

He could smell bullshit a mile away and inspired us all to do likewise.

#16

Posted by: Tony P | June 23, 2008 9:45 AM

I got turned on to Carlin when I was a rebellious teen. When I did radio for a few years his seven words were a constant reminder.

#17

Posted by: dan | June 23, 2008 9:45 AM

Funny, my wife called me up and said "George Carlin" - which is our code for who has just died.
I immediatly thought of this family I know, of people like myself who snark at the absurdities of life, most especially religion, and I knew that they would gather here to share the sadness of his leaving us.
George, you were living proof that humor is intelligence, and you were a genius.

#18

Posted by: J-Dog | June 23, 2008 9:48 AM

Looking at your Headline, I am confident at Carlin would suggest looking behind the couch cushions...

#19

Posted by: Christianjb | June 23, 2008 9:51 AM

The king is dead. Long live the king.

#20

Posted by: sjburnt | June 23, 2008 9:53 AM

His Shit is now our Stuff; and we owe him a huge debt of gratitude for changing our culture's perceptions.

I will miss his voice.

#21

Posted by: Dan | June 23, 2008 9:54 AM

He will be missed. I've heard about every recorded piece of his, read his books, watched his DVDs, seen him live... what a great free-thinking funnyman...

~Dan
http://jazzsick.wordpress.com/

#22

Posted by: Steve LaBonne | June 23, 2008 9:55 AM

Ouch. A man we truly couldn't afford to lose in these brain-dead times. Thanks for everything, George.

#23

Posted by: Goodbye George | June 23, 2008 9:57 AM

"The whole problem with this idea of obscenity and indecency, and all of these things -- bad language and whatever -- it's all caused by one basic thing, and that is: religious superstition," Carlin told the AP in a 2004 interview. "There's an idea that the human body is somehow evil and bad and there are parts of it that are especially evil and bad, and we should be ashamed. Fear, guilt and shame are built into the attitude toward sex and the body. ... It's reflected in these prohibitions and these taboos that we have."

#24

Posted by: Steve_C | June 23, 2008 10:02 AM

Damn that sucks. I got to see him live at my university back in 86, he was awesome.

He went off on Margaret Thatcher with such venom some of the professors bristled and left. I loved it.

It also pleased me that my son can watch Thomas the Train and hear his voice.

I'll miss him.

#25

Posted by: Epinephrine | June 23, 2008 10:02 AM

Sad news indeed.

#26

Posted by: tsg | June 23, 2008 10:04 AM

The man was a genius. I will miss him.

#27

Posted by: Alverant | June 23, 2008 10:10 AM

I saw a recording of "It's Bad For Ya" and worried his time to go was arriving. He'll be missed. He's one of the few people who could see the truth and express it freely. What's worse are all those people who will celebrate his death, show him in hell or getting some kind of divine judgment, or use it as an excuse to attack Atheists.

#28

Posted by: JackC | June 23, 2008 10:15 AM

But.... He was just here a minute ago!

#29

Posted by: Dustin | June 23, 2008 10:16 AM

Sad news; he was truly one of the greats. And the atheist-bashing has already begun. I was flipping through the AM dial this morning, and one of the local conservative Clear Channel pawns went from praising his career to his own little "Carlin-like" tangent, questioning how people can even have a funeral for an atheist and wondering where he is now. Callers and the host alike commented unironically how atheists live sad, unfulfilling lives, even going so far as to feel sorry for all of us sad, unthinking, narrow-minded hippies.

#30

Posted by: Paul McElligott | June 23, 2008 10:18 AM

'How long until we hear a false claim that he had a "deathbed conversion"?'

Probably in five, four, three, two...

Good bye, George. You're already missed.

#31

Posted by: Mike Haubrich | June 23, 2008 10:18 AM

Tonight's forecast! Dark.

Bye George, and let us know if Jesus brought the pork chops.

#32

Posted by: Ian Menzies | June 23, 2008 10:18 AM

My fiancée is going to be inconsolable. Not so much because he died, though she will be sad about that, but more because I will be quoting his acts for pretty much the next week straight in his honor.

I'm glad that I got a chance to see him live once.

How long until we hear a false claim that he had a "deathbed conversion"?

I dunno. I think he was irreverent and "offensive" enough that no one will bother with the specious postmortem conversion and they'll just stick with the burning in hell. Maybe they'll even steal some of his last HBO special. "He's looking up at us, screaming in pain."

#33

Posted by: Michelle | June 23, 2008 10:19 AM

Sad day. I send salutes to the legend.

#34

Posted by: Steve_C | June 23, 2008 10:20 AM

I never listen to AM talk radio. It's too insipid and infuriating... these guys aren't on because they have anything smart to say, their on because they have a good radio voice and the old conservative white guys get reassured that everyone things just like them.

#35

Posted by: Dustin | June 23, 2008 10:24 AM

I listen to talk radio in the car for the sole purpose of brushing up on conservative talking points/strawmen, but I agree that it is almost too much.

#36

Posted by: NJDave | June 23, 2008 10:25 AM

Stole this from Hullabaloo:
"Religion convinced the world that there's an invisible man in the sky who watches everything you do. And there's 10 things he doesn't want you to do or else you'll to to a burning place with a lake of fire until the end of eternity. But he loves you! ...And he needs money! He's all powerful, but he can't handle money! [...] I've begun worshipping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It's there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There's no mystery, no one asks for money, I don't have to dress up, and there's no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate. [...] Religion is sort of like a lift in your shoes. If it makes you feel better, fine. Just don't ask me to wear your shoes. And let's not nail the lift to the natives' feet."

#37

Posted by: Gareth | June 23, 2008 10:25 AM

:o(

I only recently found his stuff on Youtube and thought they were brilliant. Tis a sad day.

He's up in heaven now... ;o)

#38

Posted by: Interrobang | June 23, 2008 10:26 AM

"He's looking up at us, screaming in pain."

Nonsense. He's withering Blaise Pascal's virgin ears. :)

Damn, I'm going to miss him, in about the same way as I miss Molly Ivins and Isaac Asimov...

I must say I don't understand people who don't understand why atheists have funerals. Who do they think funerals are for, anyway? The corpse?!

#39

Posted by: Apikoros | June 23, 2008 10:29 AM

This is a sad loss indeed. We can't afford to lose one bullshit-caller for every bullshit-enabler that passes. The cable channels are breeding them too quickly.

#40

Posted by: Fire Ant | June 23, 2008 10:30 AM

Shit, shit, shit......when I was a kid, I wanted to be a stand-up comedian mainly due to George Carlin. The very first records I ever bought were Bill Cosby, Flip Wilson and Carlin. I feel lucky enough to have seen him in Daytona Beach many years ago when I was 11......

#41

Posted by: Steve_C | June 23, 2008 10:30 AM

what the hell... they're and thinks... I hate when I type and I'm not really awake.

#42

Posted by: BobC | June 23, 2008 10:31 AM

I wonder how many people recovered from their religious disease thanks to George Carlin.

In my favorite George Carlin video a hot looking angel with an Irish accent says heaven looks like Ireland without the pipe bombs. George Carlin said heaven is a topless bar by the airport.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niqVVENiY2c

#43

Posted by: Jared Lessl | June 23, 2008 10:31 AM

> I think he was irreverent and "offensive" enough that no one will bother with the specious postmortem conversion and they'll just stick with the burning in hell

Yeah, they'd have to be completely stupid, utterly ignorant, or totally lacking in intellectual honesty to claim GC made a deathbed conversion. Oh, wait...

#44

Posted by: Benjamin Franklin | June 23, 2008 10:33 AM

I almost always enjoyed George Carlin. I will miss his perception of life and his humor.

The one thing I regretted was one time a couple of years ago when he appeared on the Jay Leno show (promoting Cars?) when Ann Coulter was also a guest. Carlin kept remarkably quiet, when I wished he would have verbally trounced and completely eviscerated that harridan. I suppose he was under strict orders from the producers of both the movie and the Leno show, but it didn't seem like him to cave to authority.

None-the-less, here's to irreverence!

Shit, piss, fuck, cunt, cocksucker, motherfucker and tits.
.
.

#45

Posted by: Colugo | June 23, 2008 10:34 AM

George Carlin was an astute observer of commercials (Merv Griffin Show, 1965):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXPbyk0Brmg&feature=related

#46

Posted by: Bill Dauphin | June 23, 2008 10:34 AM

I especially remember the Hippy Dippy Weatherman.

Yah, today it's especially true that "the forecast for tonight is dark"... but we shouldn't forget the near certainty of "scattered light in the morning."

#47

Posted by: JAckC | June 23, 2008 10:36 AM

Kylgar@9: Apologies - I scanned quickly for the comment, and missed yours. For a minute there, I thought those words weren't going to appear.

#48

Posted by: ljvillanueva | June 23, 2008 10:46 AM

He will be missed.
However, he has achieved true immortality: he will live on his HBO specials, recordings, youtube and more! Few have achieved that true immortality, grab a seat George, you have earned it!

#49

Posted by: Kseniya | June 23, 2008 10:47 AM

How long before Rush Limbaugh calls Carlin "Just another dead drug addict" ... ?

#50

Posted by: Cheezits | June 23, 2008 10:51 AM

Aw, s**t.

(Is "tits" really still on the list?)

#51

Posted by: deerjackal | June 23, 2008 10:56 AM

All you have to do is watch five minutes of a typical Comedy Central stand-up to see what a loss this is even from just a comedic standpoint. You paired intelligence with humor, George. Hate to see ya go.

#52

Posted by: Pat | June 23, 2008 11:01 AM

Rat shit, bat shit, dirty old twat! Sixty-nine assholes tied in a knot! Hooray! Lizard shit! Fuck!

#53

Posted by: Doris Tracey | June 23, 2008 11:19 AM

Don't worry George Carlin will be found again, nothing is ever lost. God just sent him to the lost and found.

#54

Posted by: LordJiro | June 23, 2008 11:19 AM

Fred Phelps protesting his funeral, fundies proclaiming he's burning in hell, and other bullshit in 3...2...

#55

Posted by: sterge | June 23, 2008 11:22 AM

We'll all miss you George. A voice I loved to hear that made me realize I was one of the sane ones... here's to you not "looking down on us from above" (or "looking up on us" either lol), to speaking the truth no matter how much shit you took for it.

Thanks Brother

#56

Posted by: Ubi Dubium | June 23, 2008 11:22 AM

He was supposed to receive the Kennedy Center's Mark Twain Humor award this year, too. Rats.

#57

Posted by: Ryan Jensen | June 23, 2008 11:35 AM

Saw him in Las Vegas in 2006. It was horrible. I thought he was going to kill himself right there on stage.

His middle-career material, however, was great.

#58

Posted by: Michelle | June 23, 2008 11:39 AM

I just made one of my friends discover Carlin today.

I think that's my Good Action of the Day ©

#59

Posted by: Alex | June 23, 2008 11:39 AM

Fuck, seriously? George Carlin is really dead?

#60

Posted by: Nate | June 23, 2008 11:41 AM

Did he piss of Joe Pesci?

#61

Posted by: a logophile | June 23, 2008 11:50 AM

Logofile

Or, conceivably, "logophile".

#62

Posted by: JeffreyD | June 23, 2008 11:51 AM

I used to not be so emotional, but what the hell...I wept at the news of his death. Society needs people that sometimes make you uncomfortable because they make you think. Carlin made me laugh, think, laugh. Thanks George, I know you probably do not want me or any else to cry, but hard not to. Will have a drink for you later. Hope you crossed over the river easy and are now resting under the shade of the trees.

Ciao, brother

#63

Posted by: noncarborundum | June 23, 2008 11:53 AM

Don't worry George Carlin will be found again, nothing is ever lost. God just sent him to the lost and found.

Frank? Frank Tipler, is that you?

#64

Posted by: Doris Tracey | June 23, 2008 11:53 AM

To a Buddha nothing and everything is sacred, George Carlin must be a Buddha!

#65

Posted by: Phil Doubet | June 23, 2008 11:54 AM

I happened to be in Las Vegas last weekend and went to The Orleans to see him. Most of his show were bits that showed how silly religion is, and sometimes he just lectured about the invisible man in the clouds. It was a much better show than he did a few years ago at MGM.

He truly was a hero.

#66

Posted by: Kylgar | June 23, 2008 11:58 AM

@JAckC 47: Oh, no worries; I think every time they are repeated, it just adds to his tribute.

#67

Posted by: PhysioProf | June 23, 2008 12:01 PM

It is sad news that George Carlin has died. Of course, he would have mocked the shit out of anyone who melodramatically mourned his passing.

I expressed a few additional thoughts about his death at my place:

http://physioprof.wordpress.com/2008/06/23/george-carlin-is-dead/

Adios motherfucker!!

#68

Posted by: Doris Tracey | June 23, 2008 12:04 PM

To #63 no this is not Frank, Frank Tipler. My Dads name is Frank Tracey and my name is Doris, Doris Tracey.

#69

Posted by: Patricia | June 23, 2008 12:06 PM

Stupidass gawd, we said George BUSH... :(

#70

Posted by: Holbach | June 23, 2008 12:09 PM

I'll give my blunt and honest opinion:

Anyone who denigrates religion is worthy in my regard.

#71

Posted by: Jammer | June 23, 2008 12:09 PM

The "Religion is Bullshit" clip has been one of my favorites for some time! George Carlin will be missed!

#72

Posted by: shyster | June 23, 2008 12:10 PM

#54, I'm not sure I could think of a better tribute. Out in the cosmic ether his atoms would be laughing their electrons off.

#73

Posted by: Alex | June 23, 2008 12:11 PM

We love you George. Comedian, philosopher, and thinker. You will be missed. You've enriched those of us who listened.

#74

Posted by: Bill Dauphin | June 23, 2008 12:22 PM

Fred Phelps protesting his funeral, fundies proclaiming he's burning in hell

Like shyster (@72), I'm sure Carlin would take these things as a tribute. Maybe we should give Phelps a true mindfuck by offering to pay his airfare?

#75

Posted by: noncarborundum | June 23, 2008 12:33 PM

To #63 no this is not Frank, Frank Tipler. My Dads name is Frank Tracey and my name is Doris, Doris Tracey.

You can't fool me, Frank. On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog.

P.S. On the off chance you're not Frank Tipler, here's what I was referring to: "Omega Point (Tipler)" at Wikipedia, especially this:

The implication of this theory for present-day humans is that this ultimate cosmic computer will be able to run computer simulations of all intelligent life that has ever lived, by recreating simulations of all possible quantum brain states within the master simulation.

#76

Posted by: The Petey | June 23, 2008 12:39 PM

The seven words you can't say in Heaven:

Shit Piss Fuck Cunt freedom Lucifer Tits

#77

Posted by: The Atheist Jew | June 23, 2008 12:49 PM

I've got a tribute up on my blog, including some of his best anti-religion quotes and the 10 commandments video.

#78

Posted by: Dragonfire | June 23, 2008 12:50 PM

Hell's getting a great show tonight, a combination of Lenny Bruce, Bill Hicks and Carlin. Hicks and Carlin were two very important influences upon my development since turning 18 and now both of them are dead. Pretty much all my heroes seem to have died, Heinlein, Hicks, Carlin...

#79

Posted by: Dragonfire | June 23, 2008 12:52 PM

Hell's getting a great show tonight, a combination of Lenny Bruce, Bill Hicks and Carlin. Hicks and Carlin were two very important influences upon my development since turning 18 and now both of them are dead. Pretty much all my heroes seem to have died, Heinlein, Hicks, Carlin...

#80

Posted by: Vic | June 23, 2008 12:53 PM

A sad day indeed. I have my own little 'saw him once' story, just posted to my blog. Click my name so I don't have the comment hung up in approval status for putting in a URL...

#81

Posted by: Hap | June 23, 2008 12:57 PM

#49: It should take very long. I think he's sort of irony-challenged.

Of course, we can't use that line when he dies, because RL wasn't just another drug addict - he will also have been a lying hypocrite with the all-too-common Republican capacity to speak power to truth.

Perhaps someone can organize a trade - Limbaugh for Carlin? I'd even throw in A** C****** as a bonus.

#82

Posted by: Michelle | June 23, 2008 1:00 PM

Who's the damn prude asswat that removed that video?!

#83

Posted by: Michelle | June 23, 2008 1:02 PM

(Oh! It's back? Hehe. Sorry about that.)

#84

Posted by: Jeff Arnold | June 23, 2008 1:12 PM

When I heard the news last night I felt sadder than I have n a long time. Carlin was more than a comedian, he was a sage and a role model. He will be sorely missed, and I think we should name a holiday for him.

#85

Posted by: Tom | June 23, 2008 1:13 PM

To Bill #74, I'll contribute $30 if you arrange it. I feel sure that would have tickled George. On a personal note, when I was wavering with getting the last of religion out of my system 5 years ago, Mr Carlin helped me to get there.

#86

Posted by: Colugo | June 23, 2008 1:32 PM

The typical editorial cartoon tribute, depicting the deceased public figure at Heaven's gate, is of course especially inappropriate in this case.

I wonder if The Onion's political cartoonist 'Kelly' (actually Ward Sutton) will do one of his usual "burn in Hell" cartoons.

Kelly's Roy Scheider cartoon
http://www.theonion.com/content/cartoon/mar-10-2008

#87

Posted by: Mrs Tilton | June 23, 2008 1:40 PM

George is in heaven now.

#88

Posted by: Julie Stahlhut | June 23, 2008 1:47 PM

Aw, s**t.
(Is "tits" really still on the list?)

Actually, I've heard both "tits" and "piss" unbleeped on Cartoon Network's Adult Swim block. And the one time I ever saw Gary the Rat, the last words accompanying the opening credits was "This is the shit!" Of course, both were on cable, not network TV.

George Carlin really was brilliant. So sad that he's no longer here, since we still need him.

#89

Posted by: Lynnai | June 23, 2008 1:47 PM

Just remember he did not pass on, move on, part the viel, move to the other side, go into the light, go where the grass is always greener, slough off this mortal coil, go to the here-with-after, buy the farm or kick the bucket. He died!

(Do I need to say I'm paraphrasing one of his skits?)

#90

Posted by: Michelle | June 23, 2008 1:48 PM

@#87: I dunno, I'd have to see some evidence for that. :P

#91

Posted by: zachary | June 23, 2008 1:50 PM

Oh fuck...

This is really sad day indeed. I "discovered" him only 2 years ago. Not only he was a great comedian, he was also a great role model for me.

RIP George.

#92

Posted by: Keith B | June 23, 2008 1:53 PM

Laaaaaaamme. I want going to go see him tour this year and everything :-/

Now who will I turn to when I want a stand up comedian with vulgar, unflinching cynicism, satire, humor and semi-critical thinking?!

#93

Posted by: Keith B | June 23, 2008 1:54 PM

Typo: was* not want

#94

Posted by: Anonomouse | June 23, 2008 2:04 PM

"We've lost George Carlin!"

FUCK!

#95

Posted by: Steve_C | June 23, 2008 2:04 PM

Lewis Black might suit your fancy.

#96

Posted by: JStein | June 23, 2008 2:08 PM

George was a hero to anyone who like blunt, point blank honesty.

#97

Posted by: Holbach | June 23, 2008 2:15 PM

Mrs Tilton @ 87 He is? Can you prove it? I'll bet he doesn't think so. Of course, he'll never prove it either.

#98

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | June 23, 2008 2:23 PM

I think Mrs Tilton #87 picked the #1 thing said that could have pissed Carlin off after his death could he see it.

#99

Posted by: truth machine | June 23, 2008 2:26 PM

This was a man to whom nothing was sacred, and that was how he inspired us.

Something people should keep in mind when it's their own sacred cow on the chopping block.

#100

Posted by: Masks of Eris | June 23, 2008 2:30 PM

Sigh. I don't know anyone that combined inventive insanity and insight quite the same way, or quite as well.

He's up there with the best. (GC, Monty Python and Kiyohiko Azuma, if you ask me.)

Now we just wait. How many years have to pass before people bow down to Joe Pesci and worship St. Carlin who was his only prophet? And when can we start building altars to the Big Electron? (Whoau-whoau.)

#101

Posted by: truth machine | June 23, 2008 2:32 PM

George is in heaven now.

Care to elaborate? What and where is this "heaven"? What is it made of? How big is it? How does something get into it? Once something is "in" it, can it get out? If he's in heaven, who's in his grave?

Oh, and how the fuck do you know?

#102

Posted by: windy | June 23, 2008 2:37 PM

truth machine, I believe Mrs Tilton only borrowed Kurt Vonnegut's joke.

#103

Posted by: truth machine | June 23, 2008 2:37 PM

I feel sure that would have tickled George.

At least you have tense right, but why is that relevant? He's dead and gone, no longer the subject of being tickled or other mental states. If you want to do something, do it because it tickles you.

#104

Posted by: Janine ID | June 23, 2008 2:42 PM

truth machine, Mrs. Tilton is a smart ass. Try clicking on her name. It was a joke.

#105

Posted by: truth machine | June 23, 2008 2:44 PM

truth machine, I believe Mrs Tilton only borrowed Kurt Vonnegut's joke.

My questions are valid for anyone who believes her words, and there certainly are some who frequent here. In fact, I have reason to believe that Mrs. Tilton is one of them.

#106

Posted by: Anonymous | June 23, 2008 2:46 PM

God rest his soul. Rest in peace, George Carlin.

#107

Posted by: Janine ID | June 23, 2008 2:47 PM

truth machine, now you are just being obstinate.

#108

Posted by: truth machine | June 23, 2008 2:47 PM

Mrs. Tilton is a smart ass.

That's a rather odd way of characterizing her, and not a way that I think she would characterize herself.

Try clicking on her name.

I've clicked her name long before this, thank you.

It was a joke.

You infer more from that than is warranted.

#109

Posted by: truth machine | June 23, 2008 2:49 PM

truth machine, now you are just being obstinate.

No, but you are being quite stupid -- a natural state, it seems.

#110

Posted by: Ted Powell | June 23, 2008 2:49 PM

I especially remember the Hippy Dippy Weatherman.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1uaw3WIOlc

#111

Posted by: Janine ID | June 23, 2008 2:50 PM

That's a rather odd way of characterizing her, and not a way that I think she would characterize herself.

Seeing that I call myself a smart ass, it is a rather poor compliment on my part.

You infer more from that than is warranted.

You are also guilty of that.

All I have to say on this matter.

#112

Posted by: CortxVortx | June 23, 2008 2:50 PM

I saw him live in Shreveport back in the 70s; got his autograph (well, my brother got his autograph, but gave it to me; thanks, Charlie!).

His observation that "there are bad thoughts, bad feelings, ... and woooords" led me to see that insults only work if you let them.

Truly a ground-breaking comedian.

#113

Posted by: Janine ID | June 23, 2008 2:52 PM

No, but you are being quite stupid -- a natural state, it seems.

Posted by: truth machine

Damn. And to think I enjoyed reading your posts.
FUCK YOU!

#114

Posted by: Holbach | June 23, 2008 2:54 PM

Windy abd Truth Machine; I hope Mrs. tilton was just being tender in her thoughts and did not think about the statement before she posted. But I can be wrong, and if not, then one must be cautious how bullshit is tendered on a site that will not suffer such inanities lightly. My response was quick and direct as was Truth Macnine"s.

Windy: I left a comment for negentropyeater at "He'll Fit Right In", but no response from him yet. Take a look, as it engages your previous comments.

#115

Posted by: mus | June 23, 2008 2:54 PM

:-(

#116

Posted by: CortxVortx | June 23, 2008 2:57 PM

Did he get his two-minute warning? "This is your two-minute warning! Get your shit together!"

Now that he's gone, will his wishes be honored? "When I die, I don't want to be buried or cremated -- I want to be blown up! pKSHHHH! 'There he goes, God love 'im!'"

And, of course, his soul will go to a garage in Buffalo.

#117

Posted by: Mrs Tilton | June 23, 2008 2:59 PM

Truth machine, Holbach, see Windy @102. S/he got it; I'm a bit surprised neither of you did. After all, our host made the same joke when Vonnegut died not very long ago.

For the record, I don't believe there's a heaven.

#118

Posted by: truth machine | June 23, 2008 3:01 PM

FUCK YOU!

Listen, you stupid fucking hypocritical cretin, I've actually read Mrs. Tilton's blog. e.g.,

http://www.6thinternational.org/2004/01/the_incompetent.html

"It might not be as important to the UDN as it is to Miller that ID is as poor theologically as it is scientifically, but no matter. Like Miller, I do not begrudge the IDers their faith; indeed, to some degree I share it."

["To what degree? Jesus being the son of God and proposing a new covenant is an either/or question, isn't it?"]

"Indeed. But what the answer to that question implies isn't. For example, I don't accept that an affirmative answer means one must insult one's own intelligence by assenting to creationist nonsense."

So, does Mrs. Tilton believe in heaven? I don't know, but as I said, I have some reason to believe so. What you have, OTOH, is a particularly stupid approach to reasoning.

#119

Posted by: CortxVortx | June 23, 2008 3:03 PM

Re: #2

Shit, piss, fuck, cunt, cocksucker, motherfucker and tits.

Don't forget the addenda: Fart, turd, and twat.

"'... and "motherfucker" is a compound word and doesn't really belong on the list.' And I said, 'How did you get my number, motherfucker?'"

#120

Posted by: Janine ID | June 23, 2008 3:03 PM

Mrs. Tildon, that will hardly quell the truth machine. You see, the truth machine thinks our host is a disingenuous person.

#121

Posted by: truth machine | June 23, 2008 3:07 PM

I'm a bit surprised neither of you did. After all, our host made the same joke when Vonnegut died not very long ago.

As I noted, this is a false dichotomy. And here's something for you morons to chew on: I no longer spend a lot of time here, so I'm not familiar with every word that has dropped from the mouth of your sacred cow, and such a lack of familiarity only counts as not getting it among those shallow self-centered people who have trouble distinguishing their own experiences from those of others.

For the record, I don't believe there's a heaven.

That's nice. As I noted, there are others here who do. Really, these overblown responses to my rather straightforward questions are far more retarded than any failure of mine to discern your intent.

#122

Posted by: Rob the Lurker FCD BMWCCA | June 23, 2008 3:07 PM

George is in heav...

Arrgh! Mrs. Tilton beat me to it!

#123

Posted by: Mrs Tilton | June 23, 2008 3:08 PM

TM @188,

yes, however, my views have developed since then (though even in my Christian days, I wouldn't have made a big thing of "heaven"). When I wrote that post I was still a Christian, if of a pretty liberal and unorthodox sort. I no longer am. (What am I now? Not sure. Depending on how you define things, either atheist or very weak deist. There's a discussion of this somewhere in comments right on this site.)

#124

Posted by: truth machine | June 23, 2008 3:08 PM

You see, the truth machine thinks our host is a disingenuous person.

With excellent reason that I laid out, you stupid sacred-cow-worshipping jackass.

#125

Posted by: Brownian, OM | June 23, 2008 3:12 PM

TM:

So, does Mrs. Tilton believe in heaven? I don't know, but as I said, I have some reason to believe so. What you have, OTOH, is a particularly stupid approach to reasoning.

Mrs. T:

For the record, I don't believe there's a heaven.

Now, what were you saying about your deep and thorough scrutiny of Mrs. Tilton's beliefs?

#126

Posted by: Janine ID | June 23, 2008 3:13 PM

The wind continues to howl.

#127

Posted by: truth machine | June 23, 2008 3:13 PM

And really, Janine, you disingenuous jackass, who isn't disingenuous at times -- other than sacred cows? Perhaps you have, in your spare moments between bouts of enhancing your stupidity, noticed the brouhaha about Barack Obama's own disingenuity in re the FISA issue, and the meltdown among a number of his more emotionally immature supporters who mistook him for a savior or a god. I have similar views of PZ and of Obama -- they are flawed human beings who get it right far more than most.

#128

Posted by: Nick Gotts | June 23, 2008 3:14 PM

ROTFL! I'd never seen him before. I'm sorry he's dead, for the sake of all those who loved him - but at least we have video these days!

#129

Posted by: Kseniya | June 23, 2008 3:16 PM

Brownian, the time-stamps lead me to conclude that t.m. was composing as Mrs. T. posted her clarification for the record.

#130

Posted by: Mrs Tilton | June 23, 2008 3:16 PM

TM @121,

well, you can go fuck yourself, of course. But on your way, you might consider that Vonnegut's joke about Asimov's death is pretty well known, and not only to people who read PZ Myers's website.

"Overblown responses", BTW? You asked a question (a fair one, given my earlier beliefs), and I answered it. The others, as far as I can see, were basically saying "It's a joke, moron". Get over yourself.

#131

Posted by: truth machine | June 23, 2008 3:16 PM

Now, what were you saying about your deep and thorough scrutiny of Mrs. Tilton's beliefs?

I didn't say anything about a deep and thorough scrutiny of her beliefs, you stupid fucking dishonest piece of shit, I simply said "I have reason to believe". You and Janine seem to be cut from the same cloth. Compare to Mrs. Tilton, who is a far more reasonable and intellectually honest person.

#132

Posted by: truth machine | June 23, 2008 3:21 PM

well, you can go fuck yourself, of course.

Ok, I take back what I just said.

Get over yourself.

You're funny. I still appreciate your comment:

Sadly, he hasn't commented much at all lately. TM can at times be a bit prickly. No, let's be clear: TM is an extraordinarily rude arsehole. And I mean that as a compliment. His rudeness is tiresome (and I have experienced the worst of it myself). But TM does something very important and very valuable. His unwavering theme is the demand for rigour. My own approach to the world tends to be rhetorical. I think X, and hence write in the way I believe best appropriate to persuade my fellow humans that X is the case. (Did I mention that I am a lawyer?). TM's approach is radically different. He routinely badgers commenters to explain why they think they are justified in believing X. In doing so, TM was often an abrasive jackass. But so what? His fundamental idea -- think through the positions you represent -- is crucial. Certainly his approach is far more scientific than my own.

Something to keep in mind as you get all reactionary.

#133

Posted by: Dragonfire | June 23, 2008 3:22 PM

Hell's getting a great show tonight, a combination of Lenny Bruce, Bill Hicks and Carlin. Hicks and Carlin were two very important influences upon my development since turning 18 and now both of them are dead. Pretty much all my heroes seem to have died, Heinlein, Hicks, Carlin...

#134

Posted by: davidstvz | June 23, 2008 3:25 PM

"He loves you! He loves you! ... ... and he needs money!"

Ah, I've loved george carlin since I discovered HBO comedy hour back in the 90's.

#135

Posted by: Holbach | June 23, 2008 3:25 PM

Mrs Tilton @ 123 Seriously, you are not sure what you are now? I can honestly say that you are not an atheist. Just compare my comment @ 70 with yours at 87. You are still a theist in your terms, but really you are a true religionist at heart, and I put that mildly since you don't seem to be of the rabid type so therefore not worthy of scathing remarks. What the hell is a weak theist? Is like believing there is a god but it doesn't talk to you when you talk to it? I know exactly what I am; an atheist to the core and able to recognize one who isn't but just pretends to be to proffer rational discussion. You will get no rational discussion from me, but only vituperation and contempt for your disingenuousness. Admit that you are religious and spare yourself honest and direct speech.

#136

Posted by: Brownian, OM | June 23, 2008 3:25 PM

I didn't say anything about a deep and thorough scrutiny of her beliefs, you stupid fucking dishonest piece of shit, I simply said "I have reason to believe".

Compare with:

Mrs. Tilton is a smart ass.

That's a rather odd way of characterizing her, and not a way that I think she would characterize herself.

Try clicking on her name.

I've clicked her name long before this, thank you.

It was a joke.

You infer more from that than is warranted.

Somebody on this thread mentioned [s]omething people should keep in mind when it's their own sacred cow on the chopping block.

Were you perchance referring to your own unflinching faith in your own intellectual superiority?

Something to keep in mind: arrogant assholery is tolerable only when you're correct.

#137

Posted by: Dennis N | June 23, 2008 3:26 PM

According to the interwebs, truth machine and Mrs Tilton shared the Molly for February?

#138

Posted by: truth machine | June 23, 2008 3:27 PM

But on your way, you might consider that Vonnegut's joke about Asimov's death is pretty well known, and not only to people who read PZ Myers's website.

And from that follows what, exactly? I'm familiar with a lot of things, but I'm not familiar with Vonnegut having made a joke about Asimov's death. I really don't think you've thought this through (see your own words quoted above). From my perspective, your comment may have been tongue in cheek or not. Given that others had already taken it seriously, and that I remembered your having professed some religious beliefs, I chose to respond to it as if it were serious -- as I noted, my questions stand on their own merit.

#139

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | June 23, 2008 3:27 PM

I admit. I missed it and I spend WAY too much fucking time here. I should have know though coming from Mrs. T that it was what it was..

My bad.

#140

Posted by: truth machine | June 23, 2008 3:29 PM

Were you perchance referring to your own unflinching faith in your own intellectual superiority?

Your quotations don't support your argument. What they support instead is that you're an idiot and a jackass.

#141

Posted by: Pierce R. Butler | June 23, 2008 3:31 PM

My idea of heaven would be watching George Carlin on stage squelching a heckler like truth machine.

#142

Posted by: Brownian, OM | June 23, 2008 3:31 PM

Your quotations don't support your argument.

No, but your body of comments on this blog do.

#143

Posted by: truth machine | June 23, 2008 3:32 PM

According to the interwebs, truth machine and Mrs Tilton shared the Molly for February?

Why the question mark?

#144

Posted by: truth machine | June 23, 2008 3:33 PM

No, but your body of comments on this blog do.

You're flailing, asswipe.

#145

Posted by: truth machine | June 23, 2008 3:36 PM

My idea of heaven would be watching George Carlin on stage squelching a heckler like truth machine.

You people are a joke. This thread is about Carlin's irreverence and his disdain for sacred cows -- including himself. He would be in the audience heckling with me, not "squelching" -- what an incredibly anti-Carlin sentiment!

Farewell, fools.

#146

Posted by: Brownian, OM | June 23, 2008 3:38 PM

You're flailing, asswipe.

Really, these overblown responses to my rather straightforward comments are far more retarded than any failure of yours to discern my intent.

Read through 136 again. Parse, and repeat. Preferably until your batteries run down.

#147

Posted by: Brownian, OM | June 23, 2008 3:40 PM

He would be in the audience heckling with me, not "squelching"--what an incredibly anti-Carlin sentiment!

Ah, TM must have read Carlin's blog just as rigorously as he read Mrs. Tilton's.

#148

Posted by: Brownian, OM | June 23, 2008 3:41 PM

Farewell, fools.

So many broken promises already.

#149

Posted by: khan | June 23, 2008 3:51 PM

Al Sleet:

''You'll see the radar is showing a line of storms headed our away for tomorrow. However the radar is also picking up a cluster of inbound Russian ICBMs so no reason to sweat the thunder showers....''
========================================================
An update on the comedian health sweepstakes. I currently lead Richard Pryor in heart attacks 2 to 1. But Richard still leads me 1 to nothing in burning yourself up. See, it happened like this. First Richard had a heart attack. Then I had a heart attack. Then Richard burned himself up. And I said, 'Fuck that. I'm having another heart attack!

#150

Posted by: SC | June 23, 2008 3:52 PM

Given that others had already taken it seriously, and that I remembered your having professed some religious beliefs, I chose to respond to it as if it were serious -- as I noted, my questions stand on their own merit.

"Was that a joke?" would have been a more reasonable question, no?

#151

Posted by: Madhu | June 23, 2008 3:52 PM

As an ecologist and conservation biologist, I have to say my favorite Carlin rant has to be this one, deflating our own sacred cows!

#152

Posted by: Paul W. | June 23, 2008 4:00 PM

Brownian:

Something to keep in mind: arrogant assholery is tolerable only when you're correct.

And then only up to a point. truth machine's constant eye-gouging abuse gets really, really old.

truth machine:

Farewell, fools.

Fingers crossed that he means it.

#153

Posted by: Spaceboy | June 23, 2008 4:01 PM

I would wish for George to "rest in peace" but I already know he does ... unlike us, he's now completely free of the world's religious assholes :D

#154

Posted by: negentropyeater | June 23, 2008 4:02 PM

Ah, missed Truth Machine, is he gone already ?

It's becoming a habit now. He comes in a thread and does a quick salvo, and goes...

I don't know what benefit he gets out of it, very strange.

#155

Posted by: windy | June 23, 2008 4:15 PM

And here's something for you morons to chew on: I no longer spend a lot of time here, so I'm not familiar with every word that has dropped from the mouth of your sacred cow, and such a lack of familiarity only counts as not getting it among those shallow self-centered people who have trouble distinguishing their own experiences from those of others.

Way to generalise, moron. I got the joke, and I didn't recall PZ's post about Vonnegut, nor have I read Mrs Tilton's blog. Of course it counts as "not getting it", since most irony depends on some prior knowledge about the subject.

Are you sure that one of your sacred cows isn't this image of everyone on Pharyngula hanging on PZ's every word?

For the record, I don't believe there's a heaven.
That's nice. As I noted, there are others here who do.

Like it or not, human is a context-oriented animal, and attacking a joke is not going to get anyone to seriously examine their beliefs about "heaven".

#156

Posted by: Copache | June 23, 2008 4:19 PM

I was playing CoD4 and one of my MSN buddies tells me "George Carlin died", I'm like, "Dude, not fucking cool. That's bullshit."

I asked about it on the server and one of the guys is like, "let me check...", few seconds later he says, "shit man, he is."

We suspended the game and hung out in the XBL lobby for a while listening to another guy's Carlin on Campus tape. It was a real spiritual moment, y'know?

#157

Posted by: Naked Bunny with a Whip | June 23, 2008 4:19 PM

Fingers crossed that he means it.

Nah, he loves the attention too much.

I don't know what benefit he gets out of it

The trollish equivalent of a "nooner" I'd guess.

#158

Posted by: Faithful Reader | June 23, 2008 4:24 PM

Who's gonna DJ at wonderful WINO now? Or do the poem about hair? George was funny even without the seven words.

#159

Posted by: windy | June 23, 2008 4:30 PM

I hope Mrs. tilton was just being tender in her thoughts and did not think about the statement before she posted. But I can be wrong, and if not, then one must be cautious how bullshit is tendered on a site that will not suffer such inanities lightly.

Brothers and sisters, let's pray that God grants Holbach a sense of irony!

#160

Posted by: negentropyeater | June 23, 2008 4:40 PM

Holbach wrote :

Windy: I left a comment for negentropyeater at "He'll Fit Right In", but no response from him yet. Take a look, as it engages your previous comments.

Response entered.

#161

Posted by: Mike Lara | June 23, 2008 4:43 PM

Wait, what the fuck?! I did NOT expect to see this when I browsed over to Pharyngula. Satan is gonna have one hell of a time with this guy.

#162

Posted by: Patricia | June 23, 2008 4:44 PM

#154 - I have a theory to offer - what just flew through was an interwebs spontaneous ejaculation of someone unable to reach his own very tiny penis.

#163

Posted by: Mark in So Cal | June 23, 2008 4:50 PM

George Carlin dies and Dane Cook still lives on? Its official, there definitely isnt a god.

#164

Posted by: JeffreyD | June 23, 2008 4:53 PM

Somehow I doubt that "Farewell, fools" is meant as an exit. There may be some people left on this blog to whom he does not yet aim the legend of fool. However, I am sure that will change and sure that he will be back, if he has even left...
Good night, good night! parting is such
sweet sorrow,
That I shall say good night till it be morrow.

At the risk of raising ire, which I give considerable less than a weak damn about, I cannot make myself care if Mrs. Tilton is an atheist or not - I just enjoy her entries on this blog. When I read her comment about Carlin being in heaven, I just skipped over it without much thought one way or the other. I did think she was making a subtle joke, but frankly, who cares? My oxen are not gored if she is a person who believes in a god, as long as she does not expect me to believe as she does and nothing I have seen from her leads to think she would.

Ciao

#165

Posted by: Colugo | June 23, 2008 4:54 PM

I'm sorry that I missed one of truth machine's (now quite rare) appearances. To be honest, I used to enjoy being insulted by him.

But how could it not be obvious to tm that the "George is in heaven now" was a joke? Sheesh. Truth machine appears to require a 'non-literalism detection machine.'

#166

Posted by: andrew | June 23, 2008 4:56 PM

"We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Arabia. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively exceeds the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here."
-Dawkin's Unweaving the Rainbow

#167

Posted by: Lee Brimmicombe-Wood | June 23, 2008 4:58 PM

Bye bye, George. I was very fond of your routines. You spoke truth to power.

Of course, you can't read this because you are Hovis. But still, respect.

#168

Posted by: Kseniya | June 23, 2008 5:07 PM

On one hand, it seemed obvious that Mrs. T.'s one-liner was exactly that. On the other hand, from t.m.'s perspective (which he explained quite clearly IMO) it might not have been - and he based his uncertainty not on his tendency towards being "a low-level parser" but on his reading of Mrs. T's blog - something few if any of us had actually done. His was not an unreasonable question in light of that reading. Mrs. T clarified her current stance on the heaven issue. Case closed, except for the usual blood-spattered walls.

#169

Posted by: galapagos | June 23, 2008 5:16 PM

1) George Carlin said God would strike him dead at the end of the video posted
2) God killed George Carlin today
3) Therefore, God is real

#170

Posted by: Brownian, OM | June 23, 2008 5:23 PM

On one hand, it seemed obvious that Mrs. T.'s one-liner was exactly that. On the other hand, from t.m.'s perspective (which he explained quite clearly IMO) it might not have been - and he based his uncertainty not on his tendency towards being "a low-level parser" but on his reading of Mrs. T's blog - something few if any of us had actually done. His was not an unreasonable question in light of that reading. Mrs. T clarified her current stance on the heaven issue. Case closed, except for the usual blood-spattered walls.

On a third hand, I'm more than a little irritated with assholes that drop in, make a few blanket accusations based on a specific reading of some comment or another, and then freak the fuck out when somebody dares not to share their exact interpretation, as if they and they alone have the capacity to comprehend what the writer meant.

BTW, ff every argument you make leads to blood-spattered walls (and J, you might want to consider this too), it may well be that you're the lone voice of reason in a sea of lemmings but it's a helluva lot more likely that you're just a shitty communicator and lousy at argumentation.

#171

Posted by: Patricia | June 23, 2008 5:29 PM

George wouldn't have expected *joke* to go to the sky heaven. He was old enough to have heard Youri Gregorkian's remarks as he orbited the earth.
Our preacher strictly forbade anyone to watch the flight coverage on TV as it was blasphmey to fly up there and bother gawd. The Sunday after the flight we were taught that of course, all Russians were liers. Nice bit of christian bullshit. I think George did make a comment about that - somewhere.

#172

Posted by: Brownian, OM | June 23, 2008 5:34 PM

I feel I must apologise to J for including him in my criticism of TM's methods, since J has caused relatively few firestorms in relation to the number of comments he makes.

#173

Posted by: Norman Doering | June 23, 2008 5:43 PM

andrew quoted Dawkin's Unweaving the Rainbow:

We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively exceeds the set of actual people.

If I'm not mistaken, the set of possible people allowed by our DNA actually exceeds the number of atoms in the universe by several orders of magnitude, not just the sand grains of Arabia. So, that was an understatement on Dawkins part. And then, even if someone had my exact DNA but was born in China or ancient Rome they wouldn't be the me that I am today, that being someone like all of you whose mind has been shaped by Dawkins and Carlin.

...those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton.

Would someone with exactly Keats DNA still be a poet if born in Saudi Arabia or Pakistan or into an African tribe? Could a Newton be the Newton we knew if he had been born several generations before Galileo?

#174

Posted by: Mrs Tilton | June 23, 2008 5:45 PM

TM @132,

thank you, and I still stand by that comment. Every word of it.

Holbach @135,

no, you're wrong. Whatever I am, "religious" is not remotely it. To my mind all religions are nothing more than stories and rituals invented by humans.

As for "weak deist", I'd have thought that a pretty widely understood term, but oh well. Think of it like this: a philosophical (not theological) belief that there is an initial causative agent to existence; an agent that not only does not talk back when one prays, but about which nothing interesting can be said and that one shouldn't waste much time thinking about. One of the atheists discussing the matter with me in a comments thread here noted, correctly I think, that my conception of God was so attenuated that it made atheism impossible (i.e., what I call "God" is something even atheists could believe in). Thinking about this comment later, I realised it could be turned on its head: maybe my conception of God is so attenuated that I really shouldn't call it "God" at all, and instead should accept that I have essentially arrived at atheism rather than some diluted form of deism.

Am I overthinking all this? Probably. I have to say I envy your ability to arrive at very firm positions without thinking about them too much.

#175

Posted by: Mrs Tilton | June 23, 2008 5:59 PM

Norman @173,

If I'm not mistaken, the set of possible people allowed by our DNA actually exceeds the number of atoms in the universe by several orders of magnitude, not just the sand grains of Arabia. So, that was an understatement on Dawkins part

Very true. Yet note what he is doing. There are probably a few mathematically-inclined people and/or autistic savants for whom this would not be true, but for most of us (and this is also something Dawkins writes about) really big numbers are something we can't quite fully grasp at a gut level. Although Dawkins's sands-of-Arabia image grotesquely understates the true number, it far more successfully conveys the notion of "gobsmackingly many" than would ten-to-some-very-big-power.

Others are better placed than I to judge Dawkins's contributions to science; but even I can tell he is a writer of rare and astonishing gifts.

#176

Posted by: Brownian, OM | June 23, 2008 6:01 PM

As for "weak deist", I'd have thought that a pretty widely understood term, but oh well. Think of it like this: a philosophical (not theological) belief that there is an initial causative agent to existence; an agent that not only does not talk back when one prays, but about which nothing interesting can be said and that one shouldn't waste much time thinking about. One of the atheists discussing the matter with me in a comments thread here noted, correctly I think, that my conception of God was so attenuated that it made atheism impossible (i.e., what I call "God" is something even atheists could believe in). Thinking about this comment later, I realised it could be turned on its head: maybe my conception of God is so attenuated that I really shouldn't call it "God" at all, and instead should accept that I have essentially arrived at atheism rather than some diluted form of deism.

My experience was very similar to yours, Mrs. T. Further, I've often wondered how the 'diluted deism' you describe (and sounds like mine) could be differentiated from pantheism or atheism outright.

#177

Posted by: Emmet Caulfield | June 23, 2008 6:05 PM

Would someone with exactly Keats DNA still be a poet if born in Saudi Arabia or Pakistan or into an African tribe?

What would Frances Jennings have been doing in any of those places and if she'd been there, how would she have met Thomas Keats? That's the only way for someone to get exactly Keats' DNA and even then it's bloody unlikely.

Could a Newton be the Newton we knew if he had been born several generations before Galileo?

No, because the Newton we know was born in 1643.

OK, I'm being flippant, but you're just asking the "nature vs. nurture" question. The short answer is: a bit o' both and nobody knows for sure how much of either. If you want an ill-informed opinion, I can give you one of those :o)

#178

Posted by: Norman Doering | June 23, 2008 6:05 PM

Mrs Tilton wrote:

...maybe my conception of God is so attenuated that I really shouldn't call it "God" at all, and instead should accept that I have essentially arrived at atheism rather than some diluted form of deism.

Not necessarily. Do you think the creation of the universe required any kind of "mind," any kind of "thought," any kind of "desire"?

I don't see "minds," or "thoughts," or "desire" being able to create a single sub-atomic particle out of nothing. The Casimir effect and quantum fluctuations happen without those anthropic mental attributes.

Am I over-thinking all this? Probably. I have to say I envy your ability to arrive at very firm positions without thinking about them too much.

I don't think you are over-thinking, but I think you are coming from an unproductive angle that isn't properly scientific and includes some mistaken philosophical preconceptions.

#179

Posted by: Neil B. | June 23, 2008 6:14 PM

Yeah, I thought George was funny and he was clearly a smart man too. It's a loss of a clever talent. George often made fun of Catholic education, and I remember him bringing up the old Medieval saw, "Hey Father, can God create a stone so heavy that even he can't lift it?" Hmmm ... As you guys know all too well, I am the expert on theo-logic ;-)>, so here is how God does it: being an omnipotent being, he can turn himself into a mouse without God's former powers. Then he makes a modest size stone which he can't lift. So there!

#180

Posted by: Holbach | June 23, 2008 6:19 PM

Mrs Tilton @ 174 Semantics is so loose and convoluted in this respect that it just makes it moot. Whether you call it a tree, a hot dog, a wind blowing, your underlying premise remains the same. You do believe in a god, but you are trying to skirt the attachment of a theist in your mind and ours, that you are even unsure what would be the correct label. I am not convinced, and I stand by my educated and rational sense and consider you a religionist. Ponder this: it's not your fault that there is no god so don't confuse the situation with a weak defence.

#181

Posted by: CJO | June 23, 2008 6:22 PM

If Neil B. bloviates on the web, but no one reads the page, do his weak attempts at humor fall just as flat?

#182

Posted by: Mrs Tilton | June 23, 2008 6:24 PM

Norman @178,

mind, thought, desire? Who knows, but I strongly suspect not. Those are all the attributes of a person, aren't they, and my conception of God is not a personal one.

I'm sure you're right that my angle isn't properly scientific. But then, I'm not a scientist. My philosophical preconceptions might well be mistaken too, but the particular one operative in my view of this question I got from Aristotle, who might be wrong but needs to be taken seriously on some things.

BTW, your question above, re: "creation of the universe", contains a presumption I don't make. I don't think the universe needs a creator. I think the verb "to exist" needs a first cause; not quite the same thing.

#183

Posted by: Nick | June 23, 2008 6:26 PM

Brownian @ 170
On a third hand, I'm more than a little irritated with assholes that drop in, make a few blanket accusations based on a specific reading of some comment or another, and then freak the fuck out when somebody dares not to share their exact interpretation, as if they and they alone have the capacity to comprehend what the writer meant.

In other words, Truth Machine displays the same type of rigid mindset shown by our fundamentalist friends.

#184

Posted by: mjfgates | June 23, 2008 6:30 PM

If God can turn himself into a mouse without God's powers, wouldn't he be unable to turn back? And given that he's had eternity in which to have done it, won't he have by now? And, where does THAT leave us?... Dang. God existed, therefore God doesn't exist anymore. I like this "logic" stuff sometimes :)

Also: "Tits."

#185

Posted by: Steve_C | June 23, 2008 6:32 PM

by way of daringfireball...

The most unfair thing about life is the way it ends. I mean, life is tough. It takes up a lot of your time. What do you get at the end of it? A Death! What's that, a bonus? I think the life cycle is all backwards. You should die first, get it out of the way...

http://lonelysandwich.com/post/39478066/the-most-unfair-thing-about-life-is-the-way-it

#186

Posted by: Norman Doering | June 23, 2008 6:37 PM

Mrs Tilton wrote:

mind, thought, desire? Who knows, but I strongly suspect not. Those are all the attributes of a person, aren't they, and my conception of God is not a personal one.

Well, in my view a "god" necessarily has some anthropic mental attributes, so, by my way of thinking you're in the agnostic/atheist camp.

... your question above, re: "creation of the universe", contains a presumption I don't make. I don't think the universe needs a creator. I think the verb "to exist" needs a first cause; not quite the same thing.

I don't find "first cause" arguments useful. Better to struggle with the question "what is time?" since for a "first" of anything to exist you have to have to see time as inevitably a one dimensional thing.

#187

Posted by: Sioux Laris | June 23, 2008 6:43 PM

Can we all refer to George, we fans among ourselves, in a fashion he probably would have enjoyed?
By this, I suggest always calling him "Tits" in tribute of his most famous bit, and its two funniest moments.

#188

Posted by: Norman Doering | June 23, 2008 6:45 PM

I think the verb "to exist" needs a first cause; not quite the same thing.

Time exists.
Does time need a first cause?

#189

Posted by: Norman Doering | June 23, 2008 6:49 PM

Sioux Laris wrote:

I suggest always calling him "Tits" in tribute of his most famous bit, and its two funniest moments.

Well... it's better than calling him cocksucker.

#190

Posted by: Miles | June 23, 2008 7:23 PM

"If there is a god, may he strike me dead."

God sure took his sweet time didn't he?

#191

Posted by: Wowbagger | June 23, 2008 7:47 PM

Damn it, Stan Winston last week; George Carlin this week. Not happy.

I remember Carlin not only for his great stand-up work but his offbeat appearances in films like Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure(and the sequel) and the Kevin Smith films Dogma and Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back - as well as a guest appearance in the The Simpsons.

Oh, and I (for one) knew exactly what Mrs Tilton meant when she said 'George is in heaven now' - since I'm a mad Vonnegut fan. Anyone interested in atheism/humanism should familiarise themselves with his work.

Truth Machine should have checked before he went off his tits at her.

#192

Posted by: Mrs Tilton | June 23, 2008 7:49 PM

Norman @189,

yes, at least if one assumes there's something wrong with sucking cocks...

As to your more serious question: the short answer is yes. That is, unless time is only an accident of the physical universe like length or width. In that case, yes but indirectly: it's the existence of things that have time, length and width that would require a first cause.

That first cause needn't have anything like intention, so your comment about the camp I'd fit into is a fair one.

#193

Posted by: JohnnieCanuck, FCD | June 23, 2008 7:50 PM

The assumption that time has always existed as we experience it, is not supported by our current incomplete understanding of the Big Bang singularity.

It is possible that not only is there no 'there' there before the Big Bang, there is no 'before' before then, either. (That was fun to write.)

If so, how then could a natural causative agent bring about the singularity?

#194

Posted by: Norman Doering | June 23, 2008 8:03 PM

it's the existence of things that have time, length and width that would require a first cause.

So, time and other dimensions need no explanation?

You think there was some big empty nothing and some cause agent had to put material things in it?

What if matter pops out of time/space for no reason?

By the way, have you ever heard of the casimir effect or quantum fluctuations?

#195

Posted by: Mrs Tilton | June 23, 2008 8:08 PM

Johnnie @193,

The assumption that time has always existed as we experience it, is not supported by our current incomplete understanding of the Big Bang singularity

Yes, exactly; I thought that's pretty much what I'd said.

What one needs to be careful about is assuming that a putative cause of that singularity needs to be a "person" of some sort. Indeed I'm willing in principle to accept that the physical universe caused itself somehow -- it needn't be a "god" saying "Poof!". What I think needs a first cause isn't a thing but a verb.

#196

Posted by: windy | June 23, 2008 8:14 PM

it's the existence of things that have time, length and width that would require a first cause.

How could there be a "first" something without time?

#197

Posted by: windy | June 23, 2008 8:22 PM

What I think needs a first cause isn't a thing but a verb.

I'm not sure I understand. A verb is a part of a language, and language is "caused" by humans. Are you talking about the concept "to exist"?

And doesn't the first cause "exist" or at least use to exist, so how can the first cause "predate" existence, or whatever you mean by "to exist"?

#198

Posted by: Josh West | June 23, 2008 8:29 PM

Re: to the comments about Keats DNA and all that...

Anyone ever watch the show Clone High? Ran for a season on MTV, VERY funny. Worth your time to watch it on youtube, even if it isn't exactly scientifically accurate.

#199

Posted by: CalGeorge | June 23, 2008 8:34 PM

Today's mainstream reporting was an interesting experiment in praising Carlin without talking about what he got really good at: nailing the fucking idiots in positions of power who are jerking the rest of us around.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ih_Xk-zrvwI

#200

Posted by: Mrs Tilton | June 23, 2008 8:34 PM

windy @197,

yes, it's the concept rather than the human linguistic operator. (Actually, even "concept" is too loaded, as it presumes an intelligence of some sort to do the conceiving.)

At bottom, what I am looking for is the answer to the question that both religious and nonreligious people have posed: why is there something instead of nothing? I no longer think the answer is a cosmic guy with a beard. But I think there does need to be an answer. I'm happy to avoid using the term "God" in thinking about that answer, because it can obviously cause confusion. But if you want to know what I think "God" is, such that I would classify myself as deist rather than atheist, it is whatever the answer to that question is.

#201

Posted by: windy | June 23, 2008 8:42 PM

At bottom, what I am looking for is the answer to the question that both religious and nonreligious people have posed: why is there something instead of nothing?

OK, but I'm afraid I don't see how "first cause" answers that question. Is a first cause a something?

#202

Posted by: Neil B. | June 23, 2008 8:54 PM

Speaking of time, how many here believe in the "block universe" and that time flow is an illusion?

As for whether a first cause is a "something", it would presumably not be a particular something but what some call a field of "potentia." It's supposed to make more sense for such to exist with no cause itself, than a *particular* universe like ours. IOW, the FC and our world are supposed to be different in just the way that makes the former credible as "just being there a priori" and not ours.

(Note: atheist hero Victor Stenger makes fun of the idea that there's just one universe, saying that requires a special logical rule specifying why this one and not other conceivable universes with different laws. That's like modal realism ("...the view, notably propounded by David Lewis, that possible worlds are as real as the actual world. It is based on the following notions: that possible worlds exist; possible worlds are not different in kind to the actual world; possible worlds are irreducible entities; the term "actual" in "actual world" is indexical.")

So is there just "everything", or something singling out some possible universes and not others? BTW, David Lewis saying there aren't Gods associated with worlds (wouldn't Gods be possible entities that would then have to exist "somewhere"?) doesn't mean he well argued the point.

#203

Posted by: Kel | June 23, 2008 9:00 PM

Noooooooooooooooooooooooo!

#204

Posted by: pcarini | June 23, 2008 9:06 PM

It's going to be some time before I have a good laugh without thinking of George and feeling that pang of loss. His wit was razor sharp right up until the end.

"Anyone who denigrates religion is worthy in my regard."

Man, you say some stupid shit sometimes Holbach.

#205

Posted by: negentropyeater | June 23, 2008 9:10 PM

Mrs Tilton,

But if you want to know what I think "God" is, such that I would classify myself as deist rather than atheist, it is whatever the answer to that question is.

Which one of these two alternatives would qualify more as "God" in your opinion ? 1. a highly advanced civilization which has arrived to supreme levels of wisdom and scientific knowledge and has been able to create such universe 2. an eternal natural valse vaccuum in which abound an infinite amount of random quantum effects

#206

Posted by: Mrs Tilton | June 23, 2008 9:22 PM

Neg @205,

the second, of course. The first begs the question I want answered.

#207

Posted by: Monado | June 23, 2008 9:24 PM

Yes, someone commented on my blog post within a few minutes that maybe he was... ah, shit!

#208

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | June 23, 2008 9:28 PM

Stanley Theater, Pittsburgh, PA, 1975...Carlin on stage, and TC had some pot in a little Tic-Tac box. I have not laughed so completely since (and I've had a few laffs).

#209

Posted by: Holbach | June 23, 2008 9:28 PM

Pcarini @ 204 Did I strike a nerve? Or are you ignoring and negating the fact that Carlin made religion look like the shit that it is? So you laughed at his regular jokes and balked at his religious shit jokes? Enlighten me.

#210

Posted by: Fernando Magyar | June 23, 2008 9:37 PM

Which one of these two alternatives would qualify more as "God" in your opinion ? 1. a highly advanced civilization which has arrived to supreme levels of wisdom and scientific knowledge and has been able to create such universe 2. an eternal natural valse vaccuum in which abound an infinite amount of random quantum effects

Depends. Which of the two can offer better support for the Big Electron? BTW, in the name of the Big Electron the little Boson and the Holy Quark...

#211

Posted by: Patricia | June 23, 2008 10:18 PM

Gawd's bollocks! I've got the damnedest 'crik' in my neck from trying to twist my head around to catch Mrs. Tilton's point of view...I still don't get it.
My chooks think I'm god. ;)

#212

Posted by: Holbach | June 23, 2008 10:36 PM

Patricia @ 206 I commented on her stand or wobble in # 135 and # 180, and am certain that she is no atheist but just a religionist in mask. She is not sure what she is. I told her what she is but she thinks I'm kidding. I suppose we will have to consign her with the likes of J, Starbuck, Brenda, and several others who I am grateful have slipped from my memory which I try to keep free of garbage. My bantering with her is over. Why don't you take over and try to uncrick your neck with tolerant undertanding? Ha!

#213

Posted by: Holbach | June 23, 2008 10:37 PM

Patricia @ 206 I commented on her stand or wobble in # 135 and # 180, and am certain that she is no atheist but just a religionist in mask. She is not sure what she is. I told her what she is but she thinks I'm kidding. I suppose we will have to consign her with the likes of J, Starbuck, Brenda, and several others who I am grateful have slipped from my memory which I try to keep free of garbage. My bantering with her is over. Why don't you take over and try to uncrick your neck with tolerant undertanding? Ha!

#214

Posted by: Ichthyic | June 23, 2008 11:04 PM

Perhaps you have, in your spare moments between bouts of enhancing your stupidity, noticed the brouhaha about Barack Obama's own disingenuity in re the FISA issue, and the meltdown among a number of his more emotionally immature supporters who mistook him for a savior or a god. I have similar views of PZ and of Obama -- they are flawed human beings who get it right far more than most.

fucking *yawn*

when will you ever get over yourself?

I thought I missed some of your more insightful contributions during your extended absence.

meh; I forgot they are lost amongst the noise you put out much more frequently.

here's a thought:

only post once for every 20 times you think you need to post.

You'll be far more interesting.

#215

Posted by: Ichthyic | June 23, 2008 11:09 PM

Something to keep in mind as you get all reactionary.

*thinks*

nope, a call for rigor can easily be expressed without the unneeded vitriol and excessive repetition.

not worth it.

go back to lurking until your self control appears.

#216

Posted by: Ichthyic | June 23, 2008 11:13 PM

on the subject of the kind of humorist Carlin represented...

Does Lewis Black act as the natural successor?

#217

Posted by: Rey Fox | June 23, 2008 11:27 PM

Marc Maron, who I saw in Boise last month, is a pretty good subversive comedian too.

#218

Posted by: Danio | June 23, 2008 11:35 PM

Ichthyic! It's great to see you again. It's a pity we couldn't meet under happier circumstances, though. I'll miss Carlin.

#219

Posted by: Brownian, OM | June 24, 2008 12:26 AM

Brownian, the time-stamps lead me to conclude that t.m. was composing as Mrs. T. posted her clarification for the record.

Oh, I'm sure you're right about that Kseniya, but TM's error wasn't necessary, merely serendipitous.

The point was that TM was arguing from some position of "I've read Mrs. T's comments and her blog, therefore I'm right and the rest of you are stupid" whether he chooses to acknowledge it or not.

The fact that he was shown to be wrong was just some flavour of delicious.

Papaya-mango-pineapple, perhaps. But delicious nonetheless.

#220

Posted by: Ken Cope | June 24, 2008 12:38 AM

I got a bit carried away over at Crooks and Liars over some language I used (which was excised by the site monitor), in the comments thread of a tribute post, hinting at a Carlin deathbed conversion to theism. It may have only been a veiled reference to ideas referenced by PZ above in the youtube video, but I fear I am only now being far too charitable.

I only had the privilege of seeing George Carlin's performance in person once, at a benefit in Hollywood for the late Oscar Janiger's organization MAPS, the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies. LSD had a profound effect on Carlin when he first took it in 1969. Many people capable of describing what it feels like to be human took LSD in Janiger's care, and they generally described the experience as being at one with the universe, one with which I could always relate, until in conversation with Oscar I was surprised to learn that he thought this said more about human beings than it did about the universe. Shortly after that dialog, for me, God vanished with as little ceremony as an alternative way of viewing a Necker cube. Carlin, over the years, made it ever more difficult to remember what it had been like to view the world the way I had used to.

#221

Posted by: Ken Cope | June 24, 2008 12:58 AM

Hi, Mrs. Tilton! Hi, Truth Machine! I nominated you both for Mollies! Miss you both!

#222

Posted by: pcarini | June 24, 2008 1:33 AM

Holbach @ 209: No, it was actually the "Anyone" in "Anyone who denigrates religion is worthy in my regard.". Really, anyone? I think that just that one criterion is awfully shallow, there are plenty of people who are flat-out assholes while denigrating religion.* I read in your statement both that attitude of "any enemy of my enemy is my friend" and the desire, if not an urgency, to prove that you're "one of us", or perhaps even "the first to attack". I find the first repugnant and the second, if true, pathetic. Please accept my sincerest apology if I'm reading too much into that statement, but between that first post and the rest of this thread I felt it a reasonable, if not necessarily correct, inference.

Also(#213): "I commented on her stand or wobble in # 135 and # 180, and am certain that she is no atheist but just a religionist in mask."

Really, what makes you qualified to tell us what her beliefs are? I don't understand what this fascination with getting to the bottom of Mrs. Tilton's "true" religious stance is, I'm far more inclined to take her on her word. Do we need a special No True Atheist category to add to the No True Scotsman fallacy? Again, I get this impression that you want to be the one to point the first finger, if not toss the first stone.

*Carlin was unique in the way he combined sensitivity, deadly sharp wit, logic, and humor in his arguments. He tried to convince people that religious belief is infantile and naive, but I never saw him attack the believers themselves, at least not beyond pointing out how stupid _everybody_ is. He was, IMO, the best example of "framing the argument" out there.

#223

Posted by: Kseniya | June 24, 2008 1:45 AM

[* waves Hi to Ichthyic *]

#224

Posted by: DLC | June 24, 2008 1:58 AM

Notice here of George Carlin's demise.
.
.
Various Digressions
.
.
.
Right. back to Carlin.
He was a man of insight, wit and intelligence, with the "I don't give a damn" attitude that made him one of the funniest men of his day. He will be missed.

#225

Posted by: pcarini | June 24, 2008 2:05 AM

One of his special qualities was his willing to go places that no one else would. Like things that come off of your body.

#226

Posted by: pcarini | June 24, 2008 2:06 AM

*his willingness. Apologies, it's getting late.

#227

Posted by: scooter | June 24, 2008 2:38 AM

Mrs Tilton:

I would classify myself as deist rather than atheist, it is whatever the answer to that question is.

Essentially a Deist believes there is something out there but it doesn't interfere with anything.

So if it doesn't do anything, then it is exactly like something that doesn't exist, so what is the difference, and why care? If this is about afterlife, or fear of death, don't worry, you'll find out soon enough.

Why not expend energy investigating something that can have an effect ?

#228

Posted by: scooter | June 24, 2008 2:56 AM

Time exists. Does time need a first cause?

If everything collapses into a big black hole, and becomes total entropy, then time ceases, because if nothing is moving there is no time, that would be a last cause. If anything came after that, I suppose it would be a first cause.

So maybe there is a God, and the God Job is to stroll around the multiverse firing up black holes and starting Universes.

Of course, such a God definitly falls into the 'who gives a shit' category, at least it does for me.

#229

Posted by: Mrs Tilton | June 24, 2008 3:20 AM

Scooter @227,

So if it doesn't do anything, then it is exactly like something that doesn't exist, so what is the difference, and why care? If this is about afterlife, or fear of death, don't worry, you'll find out soon enough

Um, obviously I didn't make myself clear. Effectively it doesn't make a difference, and I don't care about it. Thinking this thing exists (or might exist) != caring about it. As I said upthread, it's a philosophical rather than theological position, and I promise you that I don't spend much time thinking about it, except when it's brought up in fora like this one.

It's not about an afterlife, as I don't believe in one.

Holbach @212,

My bantering with her is over

I'll try to be brave about that.

#230

Posted by: Brian W. | June 24, 2008 3:50 AM

I think it's really great that Carlin kept working right until the end. He finished an HBO special in March and had tour dates planned for July. I don't think he's the type that would have enjoyed retiring.

And Lewis Black is nowhere near Carlin. His latest book Me Of Little Faith is full of newage sounding shit.

#231

Posted by: Norman Doering | June 24, 2008 6:32 AM

Mrs Tilton wrote:

...why is there something instead of nothing? ... I think there does need to be an answer.

There is no such thing as nothing. It is a necessary figment of the human imagination but does not exist in the physical universe. Even the coldest vacuum of space is something, full of time and space and virtual particles.

Since there is no such thing as nothing, then obviously something has to exist.

#232

Posted by: clinteas | June 24, 2008 6:51 AM

@ Mrs Tilton,

//delurks in this thread

You shouldnt have to justify your religious/spiritual/cosmological worldview,and if some people dont get it,thats not really your problem is it.
I for one enjoy your comments even if I dont always agree with them,at least they have some style.

Furthermore,
what pcarini said.

//lurks

#233

Posted by: Mrs Tilton | June 24, 2008 9:11 AM

clinteas @232,

I appreciate that, but I don't feel like anybody is demanding that I justify my cosmological views (I wouldn't characterise those views as religious or spiritual, though apparently Holbach does). If I mention my views, though, people are entitled to ask that I make them as clear as I can (which is, I concede, not very...)

#234

Posted by: Kseniya | June 24, 2008 9:26 AM

I demand that you clarify your position on czernina.

#235

Posted by: Mrs Tilton | June 24, 2008 9:43 AM

Kseniya @234,

my position on czernina is pretty much the same as my position on svartsoppa.

#236

Posted by: Holbach | June 24, 2008 9:51 AM

Kseniya @ 234 Ha! This should be good! This will put her over the top with non-classification of her stance, or to entrench with further obfuscation!

#237

Posted by: JeffreyD | June 24, 2008 10:00 AM

I love czernina if fresh. I also like blutwurst and black pudding and would love a nice Boudin du Béarn and a Stella.

Ciao y'all

#238

Posted by: Kseniya | June 24, 2008 10:03 AM

qsvartsoppa

LOL! Hah! Nice try, Mrs. T.

It was a trick question: Czernina cannot be clarified!

;-p

#239

Posted by: Patricia | June 24, 2008 1:15 PM

Thanks Holbach. Had a good snooze & the crik is gone. I see Mrs. Tilton says that her view isn't clear - now I get it.
Must be the coffee. :)

#240

Posted by: Brownian, OM | June 24, 2008 1:30 PM

It was a trick question: Czernina cannot be clarified!

That was...that was...well, it was a simply awful pun Kseniya.

#241

Posted by: Longtime Lurker | June 24, 2008 3:52 PM

Carlin, checked out while we still need him, perhaps more than ever. My favorite Carlin bit, first heard as a child:

"I am getting in the plane, maybe Evel Keneval is getting on the plane."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DagVklB4VHQ&feature=related

Now, for the past three or four years, there have been right-wing viral e-mails attributing wignut quotes to our beloved, godless funnyman.

http://myrightwingdad.blogspot.com/search/label/GEORGE%20CARLIN

It's now become even more important to memorialize what the man really stood for.

#242

Posted by: AC | June 24, 2008 3:55 PM

I saw Carlin in college with some friends when he came to town years ago. I've never laughed so hard in public (those friends will never forget how red and breathless I got). Pretty much all his material has evoked that reaction in me. But more importantly, his bluntly factual delivery in bits on religion, etc. inspired me to be that bold.

Thank goodness for recordings! The messenger is dead, but the message lives on. Rot in peace George.

#243

Posted by: Kseniya | June 24, 2008 6:05 PM

Pun? What pun? It was a play on words.

A pwn, if you like.

#244

Posted by: Brownian, OM | June 24, 2008 6:11 PM

Pun? What pun? It was a play on words.

Then I contend that it constitutes foul play.

#245

Posted by: Kseniya | June 24, 2008 6:22 PM

... because a duck was involved...?

#246

Posted by: Brownian, OM | June 24, 2008 6:44 PM

... because a duck was involved...?

Only in what you're doing with the issue. Or do you think I can't teal?

#247

Posted by: PeteK | June 24, 2008 6:48 PM

He looked very ill in "It's Bad For Ya", a bit like Spencer Tracy in "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner". Chickens are decent people!

#248

Posted by: Kseniya | June 24, 2008 6:50 PM

Are you saying you smell a dirty bird? Something mallardorous?

#249

Posted by: Ichthyic | June 24, 2008 7:05 PM

[* waves Hi to Ichthyic *]

*running down sidewalk*

*squints and looks across street*

*waves*

*points to watch*

*continues running down sidewalk*

#250

Posted by: Brownian, OM | June 24, 2008 7:22 PM

Again with the tired canards, Kseniya? You're bringing us all down.

#251

Posted by: Mrs Tilton | June 24, 2008 7:32 PM

Brownian,

widgeon you say you're being a bit hard on Kseniya? Really, it's time to put an Ente all of this.

#252

Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | June 24, 2008 7:36 PM

That was...that was...well, it was a simply awful pun Kseniya.

Is it better, then, that I didn't get it? How do I have to pronounce czernina to get the joke?

(That's what I get for thinking "that's going to be a thread of nothing but obituaries, I can safely skip it"...)

#253

Posted by: Brownian, OM | June 24, 2008 7:40 PM

Mrs. Tilton, if you think that by flocking together to drake me over the coals I'll flip tail and dive, you're plume out of luck.

#254

Posted by: Emmet Caulfield | June 24, 2008 7:50 PM

Brownian, Mrs. Tilton was only anserine your questions, there is no gaggle of conspirators: you must have your tinfoil capon! You've very little right to call fowl and should eider put-up or shut-up: what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, after all.

#255

Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | June 24, 2008 7:57 PM

Am I overthinking all this? Probably. I have to say I envy your ability to arrive at very firm positions without thinking about them too much.

That's actually very easy.

Very true. Yet note what he is doing. There are probably a few mathematically-inclined people and/or autistic savants for whom this would not be true, but for most of us (and this is also something Dawkins writes about) really big numbers are something we can't quite fully grasp at a gut level. Although Dawkins's sands-of-Arabia image grotesquely understates the true number, it far more successfully conveys the notion of "gobsmackingly many" than would ten-to-some-very-big-power.

I'd suggest to insert a parenthesis or footnote behind "sand grains of Arabia": "(Sand grains? Hah. Electrons in the known universe, and that by several orders of magnitude.)"

#256

Posted by: David Marjanović, OM | June 24, 2008 8:02 PM

In fact, what's good for the goose is good for Gongxianosaurus.

(That refers to a peer-reviewed published paper that I still haven't read. Sigh. And no, Gongxianosaurus is not the Demon Duck of Doom, that's Bullockornis.)

#257

Posted by: Brownian, OM | June 24, 2008 8:04 PM

Great. See Kseniya? You've driven everyone daffy. If someone write swan more pun, I'll quack up.

If PZ took his role as scaup and judge of this site, you'd get a paddling.

#258

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | June 24, 2008 8:06 PM

Duckpuns???
Gadwall it, muscovy waste time dabbling in this kind of mallardorous garganey? Please scaup it right now, or I shall teal the Seed Overlords that you called me a bufflehead.

#259

Posted by: Brownian, OM | June 24, 2008 8:18 PM

David, it boils down to what czernina is, not what it sounds like. Look it up, and you'll see what it is about Kseniya's gheeful clarification of her question in #238 that's rendered me sizzling.

Careful lest you're reduced to the same.

#260

Posted by: Brownian, OM | June 24, 2008 8:22 PM

Why don't you loon to mind your own business, Sven?

#261

Posted by: Mrs Tilton | June 24, 2008 8:54 PM

Things are clearly* getting out of hand, à l'orange a meeting where we can all air our grievances. Anatidae now we will return to the peace and goodwill that normally grace these comments threads.

David @255,

thanks for the link. Reminds me of Jonathan Rauch's wonderful coinage "Apatheism": my favourite religion of all.

* Kseniya, given the realities of czernina, this is obviously written in a spirit of postmodern hipster irony.

#262

Posted by: Brownian, OM | June 24, 2008 9:08 PM

Suits me, Mrs. Tilton.

To be honest, I moult tuckered out.

#263

Posted by: Norman Doering | June 24, 2008 9:17 PM

scooter wrote:

So maybe there is a God, and the God Job is to stroll around the multiverse firing up black holes and starting Universes.

If it's God's job is to stroll around the multiverse firing up Universes, then who pays his salary?

#264

Posted by: Mrs Tilton | June 24, 2008 9:35 PM

Norman @263,

maybe it's just his hobby?

#265

Posted by: Emmet Caulfield | June 24, 2008 10:07 PM

Peking at this thread again, I might get bored of the puns, but I'll never get bordelaise.

#266

Posted by: Kseniya | June 24, 2008 10:47 PM

(Egads! What have I done? I think I'd better change the subject when my tern comes around.)

#267

Posted by: Emmet Caulfield | June 24, 2008 10:52 PM

Chicken!

#268

Posted by: Brownian, OM | June 24, 2008 11:41 PM

*Cranes his neck*

Ooh, she flew the coop.

#269

Posted by: Kseniya | June 24, 2008 11:47 PM

Mmmphh. Mmmphh! Errr... Nope. I feared that you would ostrichize me, so I buried my head in the sand.

#270

Posted by: Brownian, OM | June 24, 2008 11:54 PM

I'd've thought only a kookaburra her head. Sounds aukward. Canary down there or kinda stuffy?

#271

Posted by: Emmet Caulfield | June 25, 2008 12:14 AM

I don't mean to snipe, but I think Kseniya and Brownian are cuckoo! It's eider that, from having to deal with the marbled godwits (common heron Pharyngula), or I've been gulled. Even so, I'll stick around for a lark and hope I don't go raven mad like you loons.

#272

Posted by: Bill Dauphin | June 25, 2008 11:47 AM

Kseniya:

Your tern of phrase (@266) reminded me of an amusing little cartoon book I had when I was in college.

#273

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | June 25, 2008 9:35 PM

General avian puns??
Not just with the duckpuns? Beyond, even, waterfowl puns?
I'm so, so sora to see it.

#274

Posted by: Kseniya | June 26, 2008 4:41 PM

Bill, as a bonus, I got a chuckle out of the fact that the cartoon book was published by Penguin. :-D

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